View Full Version : Non PVP alternatve to NC
I read the Pk thread today and saw Vet commanding all carebears to find another game because NC is based on PvP.
While I don't agree with his reasoning, I am curious to know what my options are. I'm not too familiar with other MMORPGs. Before NC, I played D2 and that's about it. I play Neocron because it has a lot of features that I like and the features I don't like aren't enough to outway the ones I do like.
Here are my requirements:
1) FPS style interface
2) Real time (not turn based)
3) Ability to level my character
4) Various classes, races, or character types
5) Ability to choose from a variety of weapons and skills
Can anyone make suggestions as to a game that would meet those requirements but not have as much PvP as NC does?
Psycho Killa
02-02-04, 23:36
Your options are
1) Ignore vet and play this game with a law enforcer
2) Play nothing :p
QuantumDelta
02-02-04, 23:40
Face of Mankind, but that's about it really...
Psycho Killa
02-02-04, 23:41
That game will have pvp also except you go to jail for murders but you can escape and kill police I beleive and the game is policed by real players.... Lets see how that turns out :p
Originally posted by Myrlin
I read the Pk thread today and saw Vet commanding all carebears to find another game because NC is based on PvP.
While I don't agree with his reasoning, I am curious to know what my options are. I'm not too familiar with other MMORPGs. Before NC, I played D2 and that's about it. I play Neocron because it has a lot of features that I like and the features I don't like aren't enough to outway the ones I do like.
Here are my requirements:
1) FPS style interface
2) Real time (not turn based)
3) Ability to level my character
4) Various classes, races, or character types
5) Ability to choose from a variety of weapons and skills
Can anyone make suggestions as to a game that would meet those requirements but not have as much PvP as NC does?
Which server do you play on?
On pluto, I don't PvP, because frankly I don't have the time or desire to be a well known fighter anymore. Anyway, if you're not on pluto, I can offer you a position in my small tradeskill clan which will afford you a reasonable amount of protection (we're crahn though).
If you're on pluto, I still offer it to you, though I wonder what you do to be hassled by the players who kill you.
o_O
nope NC is the only FPS MMORPG that i know of
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Face of Mankind, but that's about it really...
tbh I don't beleive that game will live up to everyone's expectations... it just won't work... I mean... they leave too much to players and we all know what we like, and even if that works it prolly get boring after a month.
I play on Pluto and I have a clan that I have been a member of since the beginning of retail.
I love the sense of community that comes with being in a clan. I love planning Op wars with my clanmates and talking to them on ventrillo. I love creating a clan website and clan forums. Having an LE in and losing my clan membership would cost me so much that its not worth it. I'd rather put up with the idiots that want to gank me for the benefits of being in a clan. However, if I could still have that sense of community in a solely PvM game that would be even better.
Any suggestions?
Psycho Killa
02-02-04, 23:48
How can you have a sense of community without struggle and plight?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
How can you have a sense of community without struggle and plight?
Why can't you have struggle and plight in PvM? Isn't it possible to create mobs that are strong enough that they prevent a challenge even for a team of runners?
Have you tried talking to the hostile group?
It's amazing how willing alot of clans are to be peaceful, especially with smaller groups or clans.
Yeah it's all about clan politics. See my comments in the PK thread.
To get this thread back on topic,
Can anyone tell me about UO or Everquest or AO? Are they all turn based? Which ones have PvP and which don't?
Originally posted by Myrlin
Yeah it's all about clan politics. See my comments in the PK thread.
To get this thread back on topic,
Can anyone tell me about UO or Everquest or AO? Are they all turn based? Which ones have PvP and which don't?
UO is pretty non-PvP now. If you don't want to fight you can stay on the Trammel side.
There are freeservers which are purely PvP, or purely non-PvP (much rarer than the PvP ones).
Thanks Marx.
D2 managed to have PvP coexist with the PvM world by warning players when a hostile player was around. Does UO handle it differently?
(headed home from work now so I won't respond again for an hour or so)
The problem is that pvm and pvp will NEVER feel the same, because you know that mobs will always be able to be killed, it just takes some practice and/or numbers (look at the people in EQ who killed the supposedely invincible mob) and after a few goes you can easily learn the AI of mobs, therefore making it even more boring.
Now in pvp, there's the drive to become the best of the best, not only do you have to improve your char, you have to improve yourself, and the better you get the harder it gets to become better, also people are never predictable, you will never be able to predict the majority of players. Also in pvp you know you are fighting against another person, not just some lines of code, another person somewhere else in the world. It's these differences that make PVP that much more exciting, and tbh if you can't accept this either your should leave your LE or find another game, cause this game is probably not the game for you.
QuantumDelta
03-02-04, 00:04
Originally posted by Kasumi
Grr that makes me mad QD!! Thats like your agreeing with VetteroX :( Oh well!!!
He asked what his options were.
He did not ask whether people agreed with VetteroX or not.
You can PvP and "PK" in FoM, Yes, I know PK.
BUT.
There's actual real consequences there, unlike here where there's fuck all.
I tell carebears to leave because they tell me to leave... the diff is, this game was made to have a pvp focus, where as eq for example did not, it was meant to be large groups of players teamworking vs very hard mobs.
after my old clan, BlueTech, split.. alot of them are now together in a clan/guild in Horizons...
no pvp at this stage... it is planned to be inplemented afaik, but even then it's gotta be consentual (not 100%)..
but there is alot of stuff to do from what i have gathered... and working together is well rewarded... so community is important..
personally i would miss the pvp... yes even the occasional gank (with me the one being ganked)...
but it might be right up your alley...
Myrlin I know I'm not really addressing the point of your thread but if you ever need PvP training or practice just let me know and I'll gladly assist.
Originally posted by Possessed
leave your LE or find another game, cause this game is probably not the game for you.
Perhaps you should reread my first post in the thread. This thread is about me finding another game because it is quite possible that this game isn't for me.
Consequences? I consider me having to do some extra work to fund a pk habit a consequence of the way I chose to play the game, I do not consider being locked up in a game, that I pay to play, being limited is just BS, especially when you do not have a choice, atleast with negative Sl in NC you can just avoid the damn city zones, but you still can freely travel around the rest of NC, but in the jail you have the slim option of escaping, other than that you are being contained within a game that you pay to play ffs.
[EDIT] I was responding to other posts in this thread.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I tell carebears to leave because they tell me to leave... the diff is, this game was made to have a pvp focus, where as eq for example did not, it was meant to be large groups of players teamworking vs very hard mobs.
Isn't EQ turn based?
NC's FPS interface provides a fealing of realism because the mobs are towering over me as I shoot them. I can't get that with a point and click interface.
I know people tell you to go play Tribes or CS or any of the other PvP games and you stay because NC has the best game environment (interface, community, etc) on the market. I hope you can see that the carebears stay for the same reason.
right, good point, however I JOINED because you could pvp.... did carebears not know that they could be killed before joining? id honestly like to know.... did they really belive a hostile player would just pass them by? also, have you tried pvping? its really fun.
Ever try sims? O_o soon they gonna drop down a FPS a la NC game "without killing..... mobs..... pr0n....... drugs....." ok no a la NC at all but you get the point :p
Sims 2 !!!!!! Please take your carebare friends with you :D
Why disslike PvP ? :(
Its so fun to talk shit go out and kill and go back and take a beer and brag about your skills that is real RP :D
NC do have non PvP solution "keep the LE in...." why even whine when you have a option that keeps you away from all killing machines. And you dont need the uber flawless 5 slotter to kill a grim O_o
Originally posted by Myrlin
Yeah it's all about clan politics. See my comments in the PK thread.
To get this thread back on topic,
Can anyone tell me about UO or Everquest or AO? Are they all turn based? Which ones have PvP and which don't?
UO wouldn't really fit the requirements of having a FPS feel to it...it's top-down and really dated graphics. There is a 3d clent, but it still doesn't really compare.
Everquest isn't turn based, nor is AO. I'm not sure what you mean by "FPS style interface"...if you mean the 1st vs 3rd person perspective, I believe both games have a toggle switch. If you're talking about how you control your character in game, most MMORPGs out nowdays have pretty flexible keyboard configuration, much like NC does. If you don't like how something's layed out for game interface, you can change it.
AO is the only game out that has any similarity in world to NC. Pretty much everything else is fantasy, well except Star Wars I suppose.
The one thing that sets NC apart is the fighting, how it's much like FPS. I played AO quite a while ago, and I don't remember the fighting being anywhere near as interactive as NC is...not the same "shooter" type feel.
Originally posted by Myrlin
Why can't you have struggle and plight in PvM? Isn't it possible to create mobs that are strong enough that they prevent a challenge even for a team of runners?
Play EQ?
This storyline revolves around the conflicts of the players and their factions. I think the game you are looking for is EQ. Good Luck.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I tell carebears to leave because they tell me to leave... the diff is, this game was made to have a pvp focus, where as eq for example did not, it was meant to be large groups of players teamworking vs very hard mobs.
That's a valid point. I did know that PvP was a part of the game when I signed up. However, as evidenced by the lack of posts in this thread, there aren't really any other options.
Originally posted by t0tt3
Ever try sims? O_o soon they gonna drop down a FPS a la NC game "without killing..... mobs..... pr0n....... drugs....." ok no a la NC at all but you get the point :p
Sims 2 !!!!!! Please take your carebare friends with you :D
Why disslike PvP ? :(
Its so fun to talk shit go out and kill and go back and take a beer and brag about your skills that is real RP :D
NC do have non PvP solution "keep the LE in...." why even whine when you have a option that keeps you away from all killing machines. And you dont need the uber flawless 5 slotter to kill a grim O_o
Sims doesn't meet any of my requirements and isn't even in the same genre of games so I'll ignore that comment. As for whining, not once have I said nerf the PKarz. I'm doing just the opposite actually, and asking for options on where else to go.
Originally posted by Myrlin
That's a valid point. I did know that PvP was a part of the game when I signed up. However, as evidenced by the lack of posts in this thread, there aren't really any other options.
Dude, ok first you say you don't want to leave your clan - however it seems that if you did you wouldn't be hassled as much.
Now you're saying you're willing to completely leave the game, whereas if you just left your clan you could still play the game with the people you enjoy playing it with without facing your current dilemma.
Just leave your clan, pop an LE in if you truely feel it neccesary and enjoy manno.
:)
Originally posted by MrBiggles
Everquest isn't turn based, nor is AO. I'm not sure what you mean by "FPS style interface"...if you mean the 1st vs 3rd person perspective, I believe both games have a toggle switch. If you're talking about how you control your character in game, most MMORPGs out nowdays have pretty flexible keyboard configuration, much like NC does. If you don't like how something's layed out for game interface, you can change it.
By FPS interface I meant having a reticle that allows me to aim and having my gun in front of my on the screen. Basically a 1st/3rd person view is what I'm talking about. Included in that is also the ability to shoot at things and miss. I don't want a point and click interface like Diablo had where if I click on something that is a monster I attack and if I click on something that is ground I walk there.
Originally posted by Myrlin
I don't want a point and click interface like Diablo had where if I click on something that is a monster I attack and if I click on something that is ground I walk there.
The only other game that I've played that does things like that is UO, which was really annoying cause you had to click on who you wanted to attack each time you wanted to attack em.
Most of the 2nd and 3rd generation games that I've played have better systems, with variations of the aim cursor type interface.
Course, as pointed out, NC is really the only one that has it's type of gun/fighting system integrated with character leveling.
atm neocrons the only FPS based mmorpg out there.
like others have said FOMK is gonna be out this year, however if your trying to avoid the pking(to anextent) then im not sure thats gonna be the game for ya either, as looking of the forum, theres a lot of infamous exneocron pkers on there from the various servers
Originally posted by ezza
atm neocrons the only FPS based mmorpg out there.
wait, WHAT ABOUT PLANETSIDE??
/joke
Myrlin.
1. Play on Saturn.
2. Have multiple characters, enjoy the multiple experiences.
3. Join a clan with one of your chars
4. Keep the LE in on the rest- use the one in the clan as your contact with that clan.
5. Remove the LEs if/when you feel comfortable.
You have to watch how people use the term "PvP" in the forums. It actually just refers to any sort of playing against other players rather than mobs. However, people often use PvP to mean "noob ganking", not really realizing that PKing low level players is actually less challenging than mobs (PvM).
Yes, actual PvP is fun. Being the victim of a gank while you are levelling never is.
So keep your LE in and enjoy the game. The Buddy channel is a great substitute for a clan channel.
Dont let some of the attitudes in this forum sway you from the game. People that dont run around killing every other runner that is red STILL manage to have fun in Neocron.
Originally posted by ezza
atm neocrons the only FPS based mmorpg out there.
Ehm no. Endless Ages, launched before neocron. However it also
has alot of PvP and is, imo, plain shitty.
Originally posted by MrBiggles
wait, WHAT ABOUT PLANETSIDE??
That's a MMOFPS, not a MMORPG
Originally posted by MrBiggles
wait, WHAT ABOUT PLANETSIDE??
/joke i know you said joke, but planetside aint a mmorpg its just mmog no real character leveling no matter what they say
beaten to it
Ehm no. Endless Ages, launched before neocron. However it also sounds like swords and sorcery to me so it = shit
Originally posted by ezza
sounds like swords and sorcery to me so it = shit
Uhm no its a shooter. Storyline is a bit weird tho, its some
afterlife thingie which explains why you respawn etc.
**edit: and yeah, planetside was great fun but as everyones
been saying, it doesnt have a rpg element. As long as you realise
you are just playing a bigger version of CS you can have a great
time in that game.
The only problem I've ever had with it (Endless Ages), aside from the bizarro storyline, is the fact that I can never seem to use cover effectively.
:confused:
Originally posted by Strych9
Myrlin.
1. Play on Saturn.
2. Have multiple characters, enjoy the multiple experiences.
3. Join a clan with one of your chars
4. Keep the LE in on the rest- use the one in the clan as your contact with that clan.
5. Remove the LEs if/when you feel comfortable.
Dont let some of the attitudes in this forum sway you from the game. People that dont run around killing every other runner that is red STILL manage to have fun in Neocron.
Amen !!!
I have several chars on Saturn, depending on what I want to do when I log on; PvP can be fun, but if you're not in the mood, the LE's there for that purpose.
btw, hang in there Myrlin - the game, and the people, are worth it.
Well, NC is by far, my favourite PvP MMORPG out there. I tried a bunch of others and nothing compares to the quick n' dirty combat of NC.
But I'm currenly a non-PvP player. And everyone just throwing out the blanket "carebear" comments are showing off their ignorance and it's cute. Does it ever occur to people that not everyone has high speed internet? Or that not everyone has a high-end PC and can handle an OP war with CS burts, HL from the sky, Heal sanctums and tons of other stuff flying? Then there are some people who are just passive by nature and would rather set up shop and make a name for themselves in that respect (can't wait for NCBDoY vendors ;))...
I'm on 56******** and refuse to do any PvP until I get a cable modem in the next few months. Why? Cuz I felt I used to be a pretty decent APU :p and I don't want to start losing left and right because of ping spikes in the thousands. So I've been tradeskilling instead. Anyone who wants to whip out the carebear card and bite me. If it weren't for tradeskillers or RPers, this game wouldn't be what it is.
kthxbye.
Devils Grace
03-02-04, 14:40
Originally posted by Myrlin
Why can't you have struggle and plight in PvM? Isn't it possible to create mobs that are strong enough that they prevent a challenge even for a team of runners?
why do u play a online game to fight mobs and their IA :confused:
Originally posted by Devils Grace
why do u play a online game to fight mobs and their IA :confused:
Because I like fighting mobs and their AI along with my friends and I can't do that offline or in a single player game.
Devils Grace
03-02-04, 15:26
Originally posted by Myrlin
Because I like fighting mobs and their AI along with my friends and I can't do that offline or in a single player game.
then this is not the game for ya.....
SWG has what u want tho its turned based, and its almost impossible to kill a high lvl mob unless u exploit
like i did:D :lol:
Originally posted by Myrlin
Because I like fighting mobs and their AI along with my friends and I can't do that offline or in a single player game. That seems to be the thing that SOOOO many players dont realize. That you can enjoy the community aspect of a MMORPG without killing memebers of that community.
Myrlin, if you decide to play on Saturn, go City Admin for your faction and look me up on the server... Strych9 or Pikachoad. We will be very active in clan op wars pretty soon, but we all play for the fun of it.
If you have a game with weapons, but they can't be used on other players, doesn't that detract from the sense of realism (eg. being part of a persistent world) that is to be found in an MMORPG like Neocron?
Originally posted by TheEnemy
If you have a game with weapons, but they can't be used on other players, doesn't that detract from the sense of realism (eg. being part of a persistent world) that is to be found in an MMORPG like Neocron? What does realism have to do with Neocron? Or the fact that its a persistant world?
There is so much not based on realism that its almost silly to use that as a criterion for much of anything.
The world persists just fine as it is, even if someone chooses to shoot mobs instead of other players.
Its not like Neocron is lacking people that want to fight. This is a thread about one person who is deciding if Neocron is for them.
Whether PKers like it or not, 95% of the time spent in game by most players is spent doing things beside fighting other players. If you actually spent time getting your own rare tech parts, think about the time you spent killing mobs to get the drops vs the time you have spent actually killing other runners.
Originally posted by TheEnemy
If you have a game with weapons, but they can't be used on other players, doesn't that detract from the sense of realism (eg. being part of a persistent world) that is to be found in an MMORPG like Neocron?
I think its certainly possible for a game to be based on the premise that an evil sooo great has entered the world that everyone has banded together to fight it (and therefore stopped fighting each other).
I know that NC isn't that game, but I think its possible to have weapons without fighting other players.
Thats why counterstrike singelplayer mode rules..
Well no if there where a singelplayer mode it would suck badly after 1 day or less, only thing that kept it alive in 3 - 5 years is the multiplayer PvP style nothing more nothing less.
Add MMORPG and cyberpunk yay NC :p
SWG.
Qualifies for all your needs, One problem though, YOU are not the one shooting, NC got target reticule aiming and MAY miss alot but in SWG you will miss ALOT and ALOT and ALOT in the beginning till you get some skills.
PvP, well, it works... My noob almost killed the guy who challenged me, he had his damn pet out, turned out it was more dangerous than him, he couldnt hit a brick wall and i had done 4857 explorer missions to get good padded armor. I should have killed his damned pet dragon, then him - OMG... I could be a L33t PKar!! :D
As for tradeskillers, well... noone is standing around in a all accepted tradeskiller place (like plaza 1) shouting; "Constructing this and that", most people are scattered or offline because there are 20 servers or so and populations appear light because the planets are VERY big to explore even with the fastest vehicle.
So, if you want something done, you have to go around looking for tradeskillers and (if offline) mailing them "please construct Elite Carbine for me" and MABY you get a gun made.. or become a tradeskiller yourself (i am).
That seems to be the thing that SOOOO many players dont realize. That you can enjoy the community aspect of a MMORPG without killing memebers of that community.
Yeah but its not the same game without nutcases trying to pk you all the time :) You don't realise that until you remove them and then there is no edge to playing (its just not as real). I never pk but i always want the threat of ppl pking me.
The solution is not to leave nc, its to join a clan that can defend you and makes being pked less of a trauma (ie pokers/lots of free cash etc). Server makes no difference, just the clan.
I just view PKers as another risk associated with neocron, it's one you can often avoid aswell. I know it does suck when you get ganked while levelling, about the same as when a WB spawns behind you while you're hunting or hacking - not really much you can do about it though, besides from hunting in a quieter zone (less mobs or less people - if there are less people the Pker isnt going to stick around that zone for long - he's not going to wait for you to get back from your pokes).
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