View Full Version : Nerf Construction Skill
I think it is not very logical (i almost said it was "stupid" but didn't because that might tick off someone at KK and cause them to ignore my posting ) that construction skill level seems to have no influence on slots during builds. The higher your skill, the more likely it should be that you create something with slots. If you are absolutely totally capped in construction, I think it reasonable that you always end up with one or two slots, and also have a much higher likelihood of getting more slots than usual. Naturally there would be some sort of percentage falloff from the probabilities you have when capped versus having a much lower construction skill. But totally random slots? Nah, that's just stupid. ;)
Spook
P.S. I lied about the nerfing part.
that construction skill level seems to have no influence on slots during builds.
It does influence slots. If you don't cap quality, you don't have the best chance for slots. Once you cap, you have the best chances for slots.
If you are absolutely totally capped in construction
You can cap construction without putting all your INT points into it. Are you trying to argue that the only constructors worth using should be those who gimp themselves and dump all their INT into construction?
But totally random slots? Nah, that's just stupid
It isn't "totally random". The chances are higher if you cap quality on a weapon.
Your argument seems to be that you want to raise the quality cap, and thus increase the number of trainpoints required to cap an item's quality, assuming capped INT/DEX mainskills. All the changes KK has made to date go in the OPPOSITE direction - introducing hard quality caps on items that go down as TL goes up, booster spells, increases in the Construction chip bonuses, addition of an MC5 version of SS, addition of Gloves, addition of op bonuses being shared by non-clanned. All the changes made to date increase the ways one can gain Construction levels without burning trainpoints on the skill.
By the way, there's a theory that the "sweet spot" for slots is NOT at a max skill level, but at a point between quality cap and gimping levels of construction skill. Sounds an awful lot like the "resist flip" argument...
Ah. Live and learn. I did not realize that capping quality in turn influenced the potential for slots.
What is the threshold? And once you cap quality, are you wasting skill points by having more because slots are indeed random at that point? If so, why? It sure seems reasonable to *me* that the better you are in your profession, the higher the potential for building a really great product ... which certainly includes degree of quality, but also the number of slots.
Are you trying to argue that the only constructors worth using should be those who gimp themselves and dump all their INT into construction?
Nope. At least I dont think so.
And no I am not knowingly arguing for a higher quality cap, since I wasn't aware of that aspect to begin with.
My fundamental problem with this stuff is for a period of TWO YEARS i have had many rifles built and only got zero slots and one slots. No matter what level of constructor I went to, and whether they used a factory or not. That strikes me as being totally idiotic, and simply saying that I was unlucky doesnt cut it. Something needs to be changed. I guess I am simply suggesting that the higher the construction skill the higher the probability for slots and the actual number of slots ... gee, *sounds* reasonable at face value, don't it? How the underlying stuff actually works, doesnt matter to me, whether its a secondary effect that keys off of quality or not. And how big an impact there would be i leave to the developers as well. And if Int and Dex both play a big role in the outcome, well thats okay too.
The way it works now, quite bluntly, sucks. Clearly other people will think its just dandy <shrug>.
Spook
P.S. erm ... you need to ignore the fact that i just had a 5-slot Disruptor built ... that doesn't count in this argument. Honest. Heh, I only mention it because someone else might do that if i dont do it first.
P.P.S. so, okay, go ahead and laugh, and maybe make some snide remarks, but it really doesn't influence my views or my belief that the current approach is badly broken.
P.P.P.P.P.S.S.S.S. Thanks IceStorm and Rade for your clarifications (the entries above and below this posting) on how things work currently.
At 130 construction and 100ish dex and int construction is capped
(Ive heard). Personally Id add at least 10 more to be sure, and
the more cst you have the faster the process goes and the lower
is the chance of a failure, but yeah, you dont really need to pump
all the points into cst, and all those 576/150 CSTers spamming in
plaza arent actually any better than your friendly neighborhood
145/150 PE cster...
Originally posted by Rade
At 130 construction and 100ish dex and int construction is capped
(Ive heard). Personally Id add at least 10 more to be sure, and
the more cst you have the faster the process goes and the lower
is the chance of a failure, but yeah, you dont really need to pump
all the points into cst, and all those 576/150 CSTers spamming in
plaza arent actually any better than your friendly neighborhood
145/150 PE cster...
Depends on their dex/int. A PE would suck cuz of that.
Yeah, I mentioned that, however dex is most important, int not
very, so a PE can actually be a great cster and use for example
pistols which doesnt really require weapon lore if you dont go for
the high level ones. Heres the numbers. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477)
What is the threshold? And once you cap quality, are you wasting skill points by having more because slots are indeed random at that point? If so, why? It sure seems reasonable to *me* that the better you are in your profession, the higher the potential for building a really great product ... which certainly includes degree of quality, but also the number of slots.
Last time it was tested, the quality cap at 100 INT and 100 DEX was 110 Construction. At 100 INT and 40 DEX (a Monk), it was 150 Construction or so. DEX has a big influence on Construction. I don't have the link to the post that has a grid of the quality cap levels. It exists, but the link is on another machine. Try searching for "construction issues". That may turn it up.
Once you go over the quality cap, higher skill levels give you faster construct times and higher success probability. You need 2x the TL to guarantee succeess. Now, since we don't know WHEN slots are determined - at build start or after the success decision, the argument can be made that the higher one's skill, the more likely slots are since if the slot number is determined BEFORE success you risk losing a "slotted" item if you fail the success decision due to low skill level. Unfortunately, there's no proof of this one way or the other. Like I said, some find the sweet spot is well below the insane 200+ levels some people go to, but that's not confirmed beyond a few small build runs.
From my point of view, NC is a combat-oriented game. Gimping a character to do ONLY tradeskills, especially if it's your primary or only character, runs counter to the theme of the game, so the argument that Construction and Research should be open-ended doesn't work wtih me. Others argue that I'm wrong and they're entitled to their opinion, but I successfully pull off research, construction, repair, driving, recycling, enough hack for Warbots and cap my Tangent Epic rifle's RoF and damage. This is only possible because KK has added implant changes and new items that increase tradeskill abilties without negatively affecting combat (Gloves, PA, Adv Nerves boost).
My fundamental problem with this stuff is for a period of TWO YEARS i have had many rifles built and only got zero slots and one slots. No matter what level of constructor I went to, and whether they used a factory or not. That strikes me as being totally idiotic, and simply saying that I was unlucky doesnt cut it. Something needs to be changed
How are you having them built? All my personal weapons have been four or five slot because I batch build. I crank out 60 to 120 BPs of a particular weapon, grind out all the parts I need (built from chems), then go to an apartment and batch build all 60 or 120 weapons in sequence, no stops, no other tasks being performed in-between.
Runs of five or ten weapons don't cut it. You really want to batch-build 60 or so below TL60 and 80 to 120 at TL70 and up.
Guess i neglected to mention that i am talking rare rifles here. Not lowend stuff that can be batch built. Sorry about that. How does this fact affect things you have mentioned so far, with regard to the inner workings of construction?
Spook
Heh. Rares are luck of the draw, or you're using an unscrupulous constructor who is swapping your slotted items for an unslotted one he's made in the past. Anywho, far as I'm aware all bets are off for rare construction, although there are supposedly some who have figured out the "trick". Who they are I do not know.
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah, I mentioned that, however dex is most important, int not
very, so a PE can actually be a great cster and use for example
pistols which doesnt really require weapon lore if you dont go for
the high level ones. Heres the numbers. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477) What you say is true for the most part. But to be specific:
A PE with 80 Dex and 60 Int can have 126 in Construction (all no imps). That comes out to 25% x 80 + 10% x 60 + 60% x 126 = 101.6 composite.
In terms of Spies, then can have 175 Construction with 100/100. That comes out to 140 composite.
So a PE at the above described levels would have the same amount of constuction ability as a 100/100 Spy with a 111 Construction skill.
Basically you can look at it like this- PEs have 40 less Int and 20 less Dex. So that comes out to 9 points off the composite in terms of Dex/Int, which translates into 15 Construction points.
So all things being equal (and with PEs and Spies in terms of Int/Dex, they wont be) then a PE needs about 15 more points in Construction than a Spy.
Dex seems to effect the slottage for me, although it is still random.
Originally posted by Strych9
What you say is true for the most part. But to be specific:
A PE with 80 Dex and 60 Int can have 126 in Construction (all no imps). That comes out to 25% x 80 + 10% x 60 + 60% x 126 = 101.6 composite.
In terms of Spies, then can have 175 Construction with 100/100. That comes out to 140 composite.
So a PE at the above described levels would have the same amount of constuction ability as a 100/100 Spy with a 111 Construction skill.
Basically you can look at it like this- PEs have 40 less Int and 20 less Dex. So that comes out to 9 points off the composite in terms of Dex/Int, which translates into 15 Construction points.
So all things being equal (and with PEs and Spies in terms of Int/Dex, they wont be) then a PE needs about 15 more points in Construction than a Spy.
Sounds all fine and dandy except that skills dont give linnear
effect on skills. Only way to truelly find out is to test it.
construction is too easy at the moment. you dont need much points to reach the best weapon quality.
i was hopin that the doy list would say something on that point but well it ws not complete.
construction should be more influenced by the parts used to build the item like it was in B3. Shop parts suld be only normalso you can reach only normal stuff with them.
and i think that "one" laser OR scope OR silencer OR light sould be fitted on a gun without using a slot.
Anything above 150 CST is a waste of skillpoints and does only make sense on dedicated APC constructors ;-)
A capped spy does really great at 140-150 CST for shop weapons and rares! Around 115 CST would do for shop stuff too, but the fail rate on high TL stuff like drones or spells is just too high to be viable, but at 140 or 150 CST it works really fine.
As for rares, the slots and stats are random, but you have a higher slot change. You wont get better stats on rares with 200+ CST then you get with 150 CST.
I like CST the way it is, you dont need to gimp yourself completly to be a good constructor what keeps the game fun.
Originally posted by Lucjan
A capped spy does really great at 140-150 CST for shop weapons and rares! Around 115 CST would do for shop stuff too, but the fail rate on high TL stuff like drones or spells is just too high to be viable, but at 140 or 150 CST it works really fine.
/Strokes the 4 slot Commando he found in the clan appy :D
/Strokes the 4 slot Commando he found in the clan appy
Mine's five-slot, has my name on it, and still has an open slot. :-)
Originally posted by Rade
Sounds all fine and dandy except that skills dont give linnear
effect on skills. Only way to truelly find out is to test it. Considering that we KNOW what affects construction, I am not sure what you mean.
Regardless, if the builder "caps" construction quality... i.e. can build a Punisher from a BP at the highest possible level... then after that it doesnt matter for non-rares anyway.
This (http://neocron2.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42589) is always an intersting read about construction.
Especially Thanatos' comment toward the end of the thread.
Originally posted by Thanatos
For construction the influences are 60% Construction subskill, 25% DEX and 15% INT. Nothing else matters.
The only thing influencing the number of slots on an item is its quality. The higher the quality, the higher the chance to get slots. What is considered is the final quality of the item, not the pre-cap quality.
Originally posted by ElfinLord
This (http://neocron2.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42589) is always an intersting read about construction.
Especially Thanatos' comment toward the end of the thread. Hehe- my old thread. Ah, the memories.
And no, things have NOT changed since then. :p
Just briefly going back to the rare rifles issue.
The stats and slottage on all rare weapons are random. That is a fact. So don't be disappointed with a no slot crappy stats effort when the next guy comes along and get's an artifact CS built by the same conster with 3 free slots.
That was confirmed via e-mail by KK.
Me and a few guys ran a number of tests on rare weapons. If you search for the thread, I think it was by Eric Draven you'll see the results that the guys came up with and the theories we tested. CRAIG DIGGERS actually e-mailled KK and got the response. Rares are meant to be individual. That's why there is a higher chance of getting slots so people mod em different to each other and of course the stats being random also.
On the subject of slottage in general. Don't take a low t/l item to a high level conster to build... I've found that on my t/l 203 conster I tend to slot higher t/l none rare stuff than the low ones.
I think the softpoint that people referred to earlier as being around 160 CST. With around 80 INT and DEX with imps. I slotted real hard at that level. Nearly everything was coming out sweet.
Unfortunately, If you specialise at that level, you won't be making many artifact rares. That just won't happen. More INT and DEX for better results with rares.
My Girlfriend made someone an artifact CS with 5 slots the other nite on our conster, then the next guy said build me something trying to get in on a certain uranus tank's luck. The result was a no slot Fire Apocalypse with Perfect stats. Still a good rare as mods aren't essential on rare spells but the slots look nice unfortunately and that's what people want :)
Finally, a piece of advice. Find a bizarre habit when making rares that works well. Be it standing in a particular place, taking shit loads of drugs or getting people to sex the slot god. I have my own little tricks for slots and stats and they've worked well for me... it's just a bit of harmless fun after all hehhehe.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Just briefly going back to the rare rifles issue.
The stats and slottage on all rare weapons are random. That is a fact. So don't be disappointed with a no slot crappy stats effort when the next guy comes along and get's an artifact CS built by the same conster with 3 free slots.
That was confirmed via e-mail by KK.
Me and a few guys ran a number of tests on rare weapons. If you search for the thread, I think it was by Eric Draven you'll see the results that the guys came up with and the theories we tested. CRAIG DIGGERS actually e-mailled KK and got the response. Rares are meant to be individual. That's why there is a higher chance of getting slots so people mod em different to each other and of course the stats being random also.Heck this was tested LONG time ago.
The devs said its random, and tests have shown that there certainly isnt a correlation in rare build quality/slots and the skill of the constructor.
On the subject of slottage in general. Don't take a low t/l item to a high level conster to build... I've found that on my t/l 203 conster I tend to slot higher t/l none rare stuff than the low ones.
I think the softpoint that people referred to earlier as being around 160 CST. With around 80 INT and DEX with imps. I slotted real hard at that level. Nearly everything was coming out sweet.
Unfortunately, If you specialise at that level, you won't be making many artifact rares. That just won't happen. More INT and DEX for better results with rares.First, slots are random (once quality cap is reached), so if "everything was coming out sweet" then you were just in a lucky run.
Second, you say above that rares are random, then you say more Int and Dex for better results with rares.
???
Everyone has superstitions, because not everyone does enough testing to see that in the end, its all pretty much exactly what the devs have told us.
Personally I advice to make a pentagram of mutant hairs, sacrifice a drom in it, then make a prayer to the god of the blinding light for slots.
If that fails, try Crahn instead, which is the same principle except without the fun pentagram and drom parts.
If THAT fails, try various pre-world war III religions, there's quite a lot of them, so one of them will probably work.
And ultimately, if that fails, take some Spirula drugs (Hard to find these days, ProtoPharm isn't producing them anymore), get turned into a mutant due to the genetic damage, then take some of those crazy intelligence enhancing drugs, then join the Regant Mutant cult, and pray to their god, and hope you get slots.
If all of the above fails, have fun blasting anyone who comes close to Regant's Legacy with plasma, or chopping them to bits with laserblades, at least mutants don't care about slots.
Most complex spam ever, eh mods? ;p
---
... Anyway, as is said it's all chance, the chances can be improved by capping the quality, but that's about it.
Thanks for your re-iteration strych9.
Let me explain.
When i mentioned I was having a good run at that skill level I was. When making batches of 10 of non-rare items i would average at least a 3 slotter per batch and plenty of 1s and 2s. In fact more slotted items than none... period. Be it lucky or not others have agreed with me that they have had similar results at similar levels.
About rares. Well you have a higher percentage of getting better quality rare weapons when your INT and DEX are Quite high and your construction skill is enough to cap none rare weapons. I didn't say that you were guaranteed artifact weapons or perfect for that matter, you just get a higher percentage statistically.
I hope that clears it all up for you. If you want to try and prove me wrong by running tests then feel free. But I'm quietly confident of being right about what I said.
@ J.Folsom... That Pentagram idea is wicked man. LOL that's cool. I sometimes tell my eager customer's to 'pray to the slot god' and you should see some of the antics they perform in front of me. One guy gave me like 3 sets of dog tags of 3 of the best scrappers on uranus and said... "My Offering to the almighty Slot-God" He got a nice 3 slotter for his offering if I recall :)
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
@ J.Folsom... That Pentagram idea is wicked man. LOL that's cool. I sometimes tell my eager customer's to 'pray to the slot god' and you should see some of the antics they perform in front of me. One guy gave me like 3 sets of dog tags of 3 of the best scrappers on uranus and said... "My Offering to the almighty Slot-God" He got a nice 3 slotter for his offering if I recall :) I used to use the whole Pentagram thing all the time when I still had a good tradeskiller character. I only ever used it for research though. :p
Anyway, feel free to use it if you need some variation.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
If you want to try and prove me wrong by running tests then feel free. But I'm quietly confident of being right about what I said.[/edit] First of all I have run plenty of tests. My original monk on Pluto (Strych9) (forum account named Pikachoad) ran TONS of test. It was the tests I ran (and and Alexandros) that prompted the devs to actually confirm our findings and publically, for the first time, reveal all info about construction.
Second, what is there to prove wrong? You claim you found a point in char development where you were lucky- not sure how I could prove that wrong. And then you claim that Int and Dex are needed to get statistically better chances at slotting rares. You offer no numbers to back this up, and I know my monk that had low Dex could slot rares just as good as anyone else on the server. I own a lot of rares with 3-5 slots that were built by monks. PLUS the devs have stated that rares are totally random, which all evidence I have SEEN seems to support.
So if you are looking for some degree of proof from me, I am not sure what needs to be proven or disproven here that hasnt already been shown one way or the other.
But if you would like to share your test results on something more specific than an anecdotal level, please feel free to do so. :)
@ J. Folsom - You are a riot! Very funny.
@ ]v[ortice - what is really odd is that when Kweef was about to build my most recent rare rifle she asked if there was anything i wanted her to do during the build. Huh?!? That was my reaction. But i quickly quipped that i wanted her to dance around. She did. Well ... Lo and Behold ... she built my first-ever good rare gun ... the 5 Slot Disruptor i mentioned in an earlier post in this thread. So, no need to convince me, I am now a confirmed believer. :lol:
Spook
OK strych.
Find a constructor of around 160 skill with imps and no buffs or glove. Then find one with CST 200+, again imps and no buffs or glove.
Get them both to build 100 of a high level none-rare item then compare the total slottage. If you're still not convinced get them to do it again twice and average the results. The lower constructor will beat the higher hands down. That was what I was saying. I can't say it any more clearer than that.
With regard to the rares I would also wager against that too. But without a shit load of the same rare weapon we're not gonna find out for sure.
So... the reason I believe this is true is because up until last month I had 2 constructors of around similar levels mentioned above on the same server. I used the lowest for none-rare items and the highest constructor for rares. If I swapped them over and did them the other way round... The results were not as good all the time.
Now I only have one constructor at t/l 203. He makes kick-ass rares and takes around 50 builds to get decent slottage on non-rare items.
I hate batch building :(
Originally posted by Strych9
Considering that we KNOW what affects construction, I am not sure what you mean.
Regardless, if the builder "caps" construction quality... i.e. can build a Punisher from a BP at the highest possible level... then after that it doesnt matter for non-rares anyway.
Ill see if I can explain better, one point in a skill doesnt always
have the same impact. At certain levels a skill does more impact
than the others, the numbers in the skill guide is only half the
truth. For example, at just over 100 body health you get 7-8 hps
per point, alot more than what you get on lower levels, at a little
over 180 there is a accelerator point for Pistol combat, where
your numbers will increase drasticly faster than they previously
have; thies goes for all skills. 1 point in a skill does not always
give for a certain amount of runspeed, or a certain amount of
quality increase in construction etc. Thats why you cant really use
the equations to calculate exactly whats the most optimal, you
can just use it as basic guidelines and you have to test your way
from there.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
OK strych.
Find a constructor of around 160 skill with imps and no buffs or glove. Then find one with CST 200+, again imps and no buffs or glove.
Get them both to build 100 of a high level none-rare item then compare the total slottage. If you're still not convinced get them to do it again twice and average the results. The lower constructor will beat the higher hands down. That was what I was saying. I can't say it any more clearer than that.What numbers did you get when you ran that test?
I have done pretty much that EXACT test to a degree. We had a monk with 100 Int / 40 Dex and a Spy with 100 Int / 100 Dex. We started out right after an Int point release, and we did builds - huge batches of Tangent Plasma Cannons, and we compared at what levels we reached the capped build quality, and then slots after that. We build several hundred TPCs.. and we found nothing to indicate that after you cap quality, there is any difference in terms of Int/Dex/Construct combos. Capped quality = best slot chances.
Now I only have one constructor at t/l 203. He makes kick-ass rares and takes around 50 builds to get decent slottage on non-rare items.
I hate batch building :( I have no doubt that in your case, that was the outcome. But I have a constructor at TL 140 that makes kick ass rares.
So what does that prove?
Nada.
I also have had a constructor at TL 205 that made crap rares got great slots on non-rare weaps. What does that prove?
Nada.
People have looked into the def files for Neocron, and knew about the 25%/10%/60% aspect of construction for quite some time. Even well before it was acknowledged by the dev team. What is KNOWN is to what extent skills are used. We know that the way that our skills affect construction is in that ratio.
What we dont know is EXACTLY how that ratio is used. What it might be multiplied by, or added to, or whatever.
In the end, no matter what your superstition is for building, or whatever your personal constructor has found or has had good results with- the fact remains that you will never be able to promise much of anything in terms of slots and rare quality/slots.
And until you can promise results, then really all you have left to say is "slots are random".
Originally posted by Strych9
And until you can promise results, then really all you have left to say is "slots are random".
Dude, I already told you in another post, its all about the
direction and color of the swirly, everyone knows that... :rolleyes:
**edit: Im also pretty sure that KK has stated on several
occation that the quality of the weapon is what affects the
number of slots. How long will it take before people get that into
their heads?
agreed slots need to be addressed.
people have been saying this since beta 4, and KK have ignored it every step of the way.
the fact still remains, that yes, capping quality *can* affect the chance of slots...
but ive seen a TL205 builder build stilettos (a tl 1 weapon) and have 0 slots.
this....is stupid.
there should be at least 4 slots on every one churned out. and then the chance of a high number of slots is calculated using a combo of int, dex and cst lvls vs. the tl of the weapon.
so doing a weapon thats say 100 cst levels lower than the cstor, should guaruntee several slots on each one churned out.
but for a very high rare weapon then you really need a high tl cstor to get good slots.
atm, its easier for a tl200 cstor to build a rare weapon with slots, than a tl 1 knife with slots.
THIS...is very stupid.
and not only stupid....but also makes no sense.
steweygrrr
02-02-04, 21:04
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Just briefly going back to the rare rifles issue.
The stats and slottage on all rare weapons are random. That is a fact. So don't be disappointed with a no slot crappy stats effort when the next guy comes along and get's an artifact CS built by the same conster with 3 free slots.
That was confirmed via e-mail by KK.
I agree while I consted 3 rares at Yutano. I made a DG, a Judge and a PE in one batch. The PE came out 120/120/120/120 1 slot, DG capped dam and freq no slots and the judge was only just perfect, 108/112/117/110 and no slots. Now if that aint random nothing is.
Now with non-rares I had max slot chance with 80 int 101 dex and 130 cst pre buff. I have also found that, and I aint being superstitious I tested it thoroughly, I got more slots without my PA on.
Originally posted by Rade
Ill see if I can explain better, one point in a skill doesnt always
have the same impact. At certain levels a skill does more impact
than the others, the numbers in the skill guide is only half the
truth. For example, at just over 100 body health you get 7-8 hps
per point, alot more than what you get on lower levels, at a little
over 180 there is a accelerator point for Pistol combat, where
your numbers will increase drasticly faster than they previously
have; thies goes for all skills. 1 point in a skill does not always
give for a certain amount of runspeed, or a certain amount of
quality increase in construction etc. Thats why you cant really use
the equations to calculate exactly whats the most optimal, you
can just use it as basic guidelines and you have to test your way
from there. Actually you can trace 1 point in a skill to a certain amount of build quality up to cap. :)
The problem with construction is that its so easy to cap in terms of quality caps. People cap it so quickly that they may not notice what happens at the lower levels.
But if you have 50 Int, 50 Dex, and 70 Construction (and a lot of extra Int points waiting to be assigned) and then start builting some TL 55 weaps. Build one, check quality, assign points, build again. You will slowly see the quality rise.
But that is for a constant Int Dex.
What I did in the past (tis gone now :( ) is I made a website where you enter your INt/Dex/COnst and then the item youbuild, and at what quality it was built to. Then it calculated your arbitrary score (.25Dex + .1Int + .6Constr) and assigned that to your result. You could then see what others with similar scores had achieved on similar TL items.
I wish I still had that page, but basically if the arbitrary score was the same, the results where the same no matter how you arrived at that score.
That still doesnt really prove much at all.
Cause when the swirly dictates quality, what can ya do???? :)
Dude, I already told you in another post, its all about the direction and color of the swirly, everyone knows that...
ROFL ... i wish more people used humor in their jabs, rather than slinging simple insults ... makes for a MUCH more entertaining interplay.
In fact this thread as a whole is more fun than most, while still being very informative, yet also (in its own way) hotly contentious.
Spook
Originally posted by MegaCorp
ROFL ... i wish more people used humor in their jabs, rather than slinging simple insults ... makes for a MUCH more entertaining interplay.
In fact this thread as a whole is more fun than most, while still being very informative, yet also (in its own way) hotly contentious.
Spook Actually spook, there isnt much contention taking place here. :)
No one can promise slots, or even "above average slots" on any one build. Nothing has changed. :)
Yes slots are Random. I think I said that myself somewhere.
But you can increase the percentage of slottage with your skill level. What I'm saying is that after a particular arbitrary skill point... the chances of slots on none-rare items depreciate.
We could argue the toss about this forever.
Lets just agree to disagree. I have my theory and I'm happy with it :)
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Yes slots are Random. I think I said that myself somewhere.
But you can increase the percentage of slottage with your skill level. What I'm saying is that after a particular arbitrary skill point... the chances of slots on none-rare items depreciate.
We could argue the toss about this forever.
Lets just agree to disagree. I have my theory and I'm happy with it :) Since thats your theory, tell me the arbitrary point so I can verify. ;)
just a small point: i have capped int dex ( 113 int/127 dex) and only 100 base cst; with 115 when i have cst gluv. I can build capped quality Punishers, the highest TL rare in the game... so if u just want a basic builder nothing fancy 100 cst is all u'll need if u have a load of dex/int.
@strych9:
I believe It to be between 150 CST and 165 CST
@mdares:
What sort of results do you get with rare weapons in general? I would be interested to see if you ever build anything less than a good 'perfect' build (slots disregarded). Particularly with CSes and Pain Easers as they tend to generate more random results with regard to stats than other rare weapon's I've found.
If he is talking about quality capped Punishers he is talking about BP'd punishers, not punishers made from original tech parts. So he is talking about capping non-rare build quality.
Mortice- you said the point is at 150-165 Construction. What Dex and INt is that, since you cannot separate the three when talking about construction.
It's natural INT and DEX when you reach around that level, with chip bonuses and no buffs.
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