View Full Version : Love the sniper rifles power now.
Being a sniper/hacker spy, all i can say is.....
I got my first shot on Final Evolution (a high level saturn tank) and i took off 125 hp. And i'm not even near capped on the SH.
Now just give me more view in the scope (more zoom and less fog of war)
Shadow Dancer
30-01-04, 18:10
Damn. Now I really want to play a spy again. I simply CANNOT stomach all that leveling. Spy has to be the most boring class to level. :(
[TgR]KILLER
30-01-04, 18:14
can't we put all the.. omg sniper rifles are so ub3r threads in one big one ? like i'v seen 10 of em already
Dribble Joy
30-01-04, 18:15
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
can't we put all the.. omg sniper rifles are so ub3r threads in one big one ? like i'v seen 10 of em already
I concur, if you do, delete this post.
i was thinking of posting a " i love the CS power now" thread, har har taking monks down in one clip is so funny
*waits for kurai to read this and slap the cold hard facts in ur face*
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Damn. Now I really want to play a spy again. I simply CANNOT stomach all that leveling. Spy has to be the most boring class to level. :(
You know what, I love levelling :D There is something about being a noob I find entertaining. I started a noob spy when I heard that the sniper rifles were getting a boost. In about 6 hours levelling, I go from next to nothing, to 41 DEX - it's not that bad :) Also includes about 1.5 hours running round TG doing missions to get PSI up (only at 12 atm). :)
there something about noobs i find so entertaining, there body twitching on the floor from my CS blast:rolleyes:
hudsonbeck
30-01-04, 18:21
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
can't we put all the.. omg sniper rifles are so ub3r threads in one big one ? like i'v seen 10 of em already
Why?
Are Bitching threads the only ones "allowed" to overtake the forum?
H
Originally posted by hudsonbeck
Why?
Are Bitching threads the only ones "allowed" to overtake the forum?
H yes, if it aint a bitching thread it gets closed new forum rule:D
hudsonbeck
30-01-04, 18:24
Originally posted by ezza
yes, if it aint a bitching thread it gets closed new forum rule:D
lol... ur prolly right.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
You know what, I love levelling :D There is something about being a noob I find entertaining. I started a noob spy when I heard that the sniper rifles were getting a boost. In about 6 hours levelling, I go from next to nothing, to 41 DEX - it's not that bad :) Also includes about 1.5 hours running round TG doing missions to get PSI up (only at 12 atm). :)
Lets talk about that leveling spy thing when you hit DEX 80 base and youre in deep need of heavy belts and more DEX for your rare weapons Rincey ;)
Originally posted by ezza
there something about noobs i find so entertaining, there body twitching on the floor from my CS blast:rolleyes:
Hands Ezza a cloth to wipe the rabid foam away ....:rolleyes:
OMG! Nerf teh sniper rifles! ;)
Psyco Groupie
30-01-04, 18:27
all these holy lightning weapons are getting nerfed ... shame tho :)
Look Ezza - a Noob - quick.. shoot him...
;)
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Look Ezza - a Noob - quick.. shoot him...
;) HAR HAR NONE OF THEN GET AWAY
oohhh a drom
SEX
Originally posted by Furion
*waits for kurai to read this and slap the cold hard facts in ur face* lol
I'll give up for now - there's only so many times I can recite the same long list of broken shit before I start to bore even myself :D
It's mildly amusing that some people are enthusing over the damage the post-patch SH does to PE's and Tanks ... they obviously hadn't used it before, to know that it did exactly the same pre-patch.
I wonder how many of the new spies will stay using sniper rifles once they finish mob levelling and try it out PvP ?
Shadow Dancer
30-01-04, 22:01
jurai when I used a capped SH against a buffed PE, it did like 80 damage. Prepatch I mean. Now if it takes a minimum of 3 hits to kill, then obviously the SH would do more damage to that PE after patch(unless the PE had 240 health :p) right?
So what's the problem? Also leg shots always do less damage, so a damage boost will be noticeable to the legs as well. Which is a good thing, since it'll be easier to cripple someone.
Please if i'm wrong about something, then splain. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
jurai when I used a capped SH against a buffed PE, it did like 80 damage. Prepatch I mean. Now if it takes a minimum of 3 hits to kill, then obviously the SH would do more damage to that PE after patch(unless the PE had 240 health :p) right?
So what's the problem? Also leg shots always do less damage, so a damage boost will be noticeable to the legs as well. Which is a good thing, since it'll be easier to cripple someone.
Please if i'm wrong about something, then splain. :p It's a matter of looking at the percentage change, doing the math then confirming results against known runner config ...
In terms of raw numbers, SH single shot total damage potential has gone from base 1,592 to base 1,974 therefore PvM the SH is up by 24% ...
however - all potential damage is deducted from mobs; they have a 1:1 armour calc, single hit-zone, and total starting health isn't used in the calculation.
This much I'm sure you knew already.
Now comes the tricky bit.
The first thing to factor for is the runner "steel-skin" (as Rustot calls it). i.e. only 33% of the base damage potential is calculated against runners.
This gives us 531 pre-patch, 658 post patch (still linear, so +24%).
Then comes the limiting locational damage calculation :-
I've never seen damage greater than 240 from a head shot on a capped gentank with maxxed health and zero force/pierce/armour/deflector, but someone (I forget who) anecdotally said he once got 260 so I'll use that for sake of argument. (This is roughly 50% of starting overall health value)
Body and leg shots have even smaller starting health percentage limits - 33% & 25%, I think ... can't remember absolutely reliably.
It's this post-locational damage cap value that the resist/armour/deflect calculation is run against.
That cap hasn't changed, so although 531 pre-patch and 658 post-patch is `delivered`, it's still only 260 per head shot thats `registered` to feed into the subsequent damage resistance calculation.
If we run this calculation backwards factoring in `steel skin` then we see that any weapon that delivers over 780 dmg (260*3) in a single non-area-effect head-shot calculation will be affected, and the remaining damage potential is discarded.
Other than Silent Hunter it's only really Holy Lightning that's heavily affected by this, but with 105/min compared to 24/min rate of fire it's effects are much less of a hindrance.
The situation is further amplified by the separation of the 3 hit-zones ...
i.e. subsequent shots to the same location deliver progressively less damage till a zone is `zeroed` and the calc is run against the next hit-zone.
In summary : Since the method of Silent Hunter PvP dmg calculation hasn't changed the same limits are still a factor.
i.e. If you did 80 pre-patch, you'll do 80 now :(
errrr ????? Rifle go BANG !!! :D
Damn, i read this thread title and thought it was definitely time to come back to Saturn, bugger those Kurai factoids! :(
Shadow Dancer
31-01-04, 02:50
Kurai you said stuff I already know :p. Basically what i'm saying is this. It takes a MINIMUM of 3 shots for single-shot weapons to kill. I do 20 damage to a noob if I use HL. lol. I'm sure we all know that.
What i'm telling you is this, were you really able to kill everyone in 3 hits? For you to say there's no pvp damage increase, is to say that you were able to kill everyone in 3 hits. I find that a little hard to swallow. You're telling me a PE with shelter/blessed deflector and 400 health died in 3 headshots to you(if he didn't heal let's say) prepatch?
o_O
Also, you would do more leg damage. So isn't it better to super cripple them in one hit to the legs because of more leg damage?(since leg shots are less damage).
Let's put it this way.
I SOMETIMES kill apus in 3 headshots. Because apus generally have low health. But i've never killed apus in 3 leg shots before. I have killed KAMI apus in 3 leg shots though, since their energy was shit.
See what i'm saying now?
I think we're both slightly misunderstanding each other. I'm sure you're saying a headshot can only do so much damage in one hit. It can never do more than 1/3 damage to a target's health because of the silly rules. I'ved kill noobs before in one fire apoc, but that's because fire damage has TEH stackage.
Maybe SH should have stacks, or have it's damage calculated 3 times or something. So that one hit is calculated as 3, so you would probably see more damage. Or maybe just a rof increase.
:angel:
sniper rifle power ?
a spy I killed today:
first shot: 230 damage
second shot: 100 damage
third shot: 20 damage
fourth shot: 10 damage, dead spy.
4 shots with a silent hunter.
I could have emptied a full pain easer clip into him in that time.
but there would be no use in firing the last 6-7 bursts, because
he would already be dead after the first 3-4.
edit: is there no way to let the engine think SH is a burst weapon?
edit2: those were all torso / headshots, his legs were covered
by a mountain
greets, Lagos.
Psychoninja
31-01-04, 03:57
Spies need something that does this (http://www.dogbegone.com/bullet.htm) type of damage 8|
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
See what i'm saying now?Umm - not really.
I think you are right in that it seems we are not quite getting each other's angle.
The main part of the line of reasoning I am not following is :
"Saying there's no PvP dmg increase, is to say that you were able to kill everyone in 3 hits" [presumably you mean pre-patch there]
Not entirely sure where the "always kill in 3 shots" bit originated.
I've never claimed that the PE spec you mention would go down in 3, and I agree that it always used to take a *minimum* of 3 shots (counting low force/pierce chars & n00bs as well as everyone else), with 4 or 5 being more usual (not counting PPUs)
It *still* takes 3 shots minimum, post-patch. I'm confused as to why one would think that this shows that the raw SH dmg boost had a non-zero effect PvP. :confused:
As far as the leg thing goes ... why would I get more damage post patch than I used to ? The locational limit hasn't changed.
That's the bottleneck here.
(Incidentally - one leg shot won't cripple anyone that starts off with full health [hit-zone cap again] - it takes two ... the first shot certainly takes off a good chunk, but you will stay uncrippled untill the second shot empties the leg zone, and then a proportion of the remaining damage registered gets taken from the adjoining body zone)
The limits I'm talking about are not solely applicable to headshots - they are present for body and leg zones too ... but at a lower percentage of starting health.
I only used headshot as an example as it has the biggest allowable percentage of health as damage ... in effect calculatig with a "best case scenario" - I was trying to show that even with the maximum possible combination of beneficial factors to the attacker the dmg cap is still an issue.
[example figures] 300 starting health ... and values for first shot each time ...
Headshot cannot exceed 150 dmg
Body shot cannot exceed 100 dmg
Leg shot cannot exceed 75 dmg
The percentages aren't exactly 50/33/25, but hopefully I am giving a comprehensible example ?
Originally posted by Lagos
edit: is there no way to let the engine think SH is a burst weapon? Indeed.
In past threads on this subject that idea has been kicked around before - it would certainly seem to be one of the easier fixes to implement and balance.
One of the things that was nearly universally agreed on was that simply upping the raw damage in the same single dmaage calc format would be hugely missing the point, and have fuck all PvP effect.
Yet KK did it anyway. :sigh:
Beanie McChimp
31-01-04, 14:14
I love sniper rifles even in OP fights all you need is decent stealth good spot and decent rifle i use a 4 slotted commando picking off pkers at the bunker kicks ass or killing any person you see rules.
I know Kurai is almost certainly right here as he knows the science and maths behind it, but for some reason I was sure that the damage was up when I was fighting last night.
PPUs were running away from me and I was killing tanks with a holy heal on. :)
Maybe the other slight nerfs/corrections are actaully the cause here, mainly to the Ds and some other monk stuff causing weaker shelter/deflectors?
What you guys think? Cause I swear blind it's better and I use my Sh quite a bit as Kurai will tell you when I snipe him in op wars lol.
you can counter the body-section max damage a bit
hit legs, then head, then body, then back to head
because you are not tring to 'zero' the head, you do more damage hitting the body in the single shot.
i go for the legs first so the poor bastard cant move :p
I ran some PvM and PvP tests on FL, HL, Dis, PE, ROG and SH.
For PvP and PvM, the FL now seems to be by far the best rifle. That's taking into account the damage, RoF, range and accuracy.
For sniping, HL seems a lot better, though SH is a lot better vs monks, and doesn't give away your location as much.
RoG appears to have been nerfed badly. In terms of damage/min, taking into account accuracy, it seems to be the worst of the 6 rifles I tested.
And Disruptor has dreadful accuracy. I fired a full clip with reticle fully opened, capped aiming and not even ONE round hit, where as 13 or 14 FL bolts hit from a clip with reticle open. (With closed reticle FL hits with 16-17 bolts out of 20)
Originally posted by -Demon-
I know Kurai is almost certainly right here as he knows the science and maths behind it, but for some reason I was sure that the damage was up when I was fighting last night.
PPUs were running away from me and I was killing tanks with a holy heal on. :)
Maybe the other slight nerfs/corrections are actaully the cause here, mainly to the Ds and some other monk stuff causing weaker shelter/deflectors?
What you guys think? Cause I swear blind it's better and I use my Sh quite a bit as Kurai will tell you when I snipe him in op wars lol. I think you are right , that it *is* currently better on retail ... but then again so are *all* the rares. o_O
The "unintentional rare boost" is really screwing with testing, so I have only inlcuded test server numbers for strict empirical comparisons so far.
I'll do the same for retail some time next when (if ?) KK get around to hot-fixing stuff.
Originally posted by Omnituens
you can counter the body-section max damage a bit
hit legs, then head, then body, then back to head
because you are not tring to 'zero' the head, you do more damage hitting the body in the single shot.
i go for the legs first so the poor bastard cant move :p I generally do legs, body, head, body, when possible :D
(as the body `zone` leaks damage equally to the two adjacent zones)
Originally posted by Lethys
I ran some PvM and PvP tests on FL, HL, Dis, PE, ROG and SH.
For PvP and PvM, the FL now seems to be by far the best rifle. That's taking into account the damage, RoF, range and accuracy.
For sniping, HL seems a lot better, though SH is a lot better vs monks, and doesn't give away your location as much.
RoG appears to have been nerfed badly. In terms of damage/min, taking into account accuracy, it seems to be the worst of the 6 rifles I tested.
And Disruptor has dreadful accuracy. I fired a full clip with reticle fully opened, capped aiming and not even ONE round hit, where as 13 or 14 FL bolts hit from a clip with reticle open. (With closed reticle FL hits with 16-17 bolts out of 20) Hrmmm ...
I'll have to dig out my uber FL collection and test them.
Only tried the RoG/HL/SH/Dis so far, and found broadly the same as you.
RoG definitely seems less effective than it was, Dis accuracy has turned to shit, HL is madly increased - even more than I thought it would be from test server boost. (There's a *big* burst bonus that wasn't apparent from PvM testing).
So now I am carrying a SH & HL around instead of SH & RoG.
I've had 2x 4 slot & 1x 5 slot HL sitting in a cab collecting dust since ... umm... last January or so. Modded one up last night, including scope, and went on a rampage ...
It 0wns :D
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.