View Full Version : nerf on obliterator... why ???
Hi all,
I am french and I have been playing a spy on Venus since 10 months. Patch 195 made the obliterator duration 33% lower. Why??? This is a tool with very high requirements, if not the highest (DEX 120 INT 95 TC 110) . This tool has no other positive effect but its duration. Prior to the patch I was already thinking it should last 2 min or more, and I was also thinking maybe it should be "protected " against the stealth-remover spell. Now I am very disapointed. Why did they make it 30 sec shorter ??? Was it really taht important for the balance of the game??? I really dont think so. Not so many players used it, and we used it mainly in order to play our game as a spies, that is to say observe, spy and inform our clan about the ennemy....
Can somebody give me a real and valuable explanation about that? I dont think so, but please, try ...
:mad:
I gotta agree with you on that one. There was no need for an oblit nerf. The main problem about stealth was PEs being bitches to kill, imo... And it looks like they sorted it now by raising the INT requiement by 5.
Anyhow, hope KK will put the Obliterator back to its original state soon.
want god mode too?
nerf my psi u get ur ***** run away tool nerfed.
kthx
It's fucked.
They had no good reason before and I doubt they have one now.
The obliterator’s req's were already high enough to make a gimp out of anyone using them. There was no reason to nerf them. The PE stealth nerf was needed (doesn’t effect me thou, sex to SA's). Those were 2 different issues, KK managed to make them into one.
Originally posted by Keiron
The obliterator’s req's were already high enough to make a gimp out of anyone using them. There was no reason to nerf them. The PE stealth nerf was needed (doesn’t effect me thou, sex to SA's). Those were 2 different issues, KK managed to make them into one.
Doesnt effect many PEs because most have int 66 for medium energy belt.
And obliterator was nerfed for the fun of it, but obliterator spies are irritatingly hard to kill as long as they are quick.
And why do psis think the are nerfed, wow their life was made hard for once big whoop.
Heavyporker
30-01-04, 00:17
Obliterator really shouldn't have gotten nerfed at all, I believe.
Hell, it should be 120 seconds long, in fact... the sheer gimpage in terms of DEX and T-C.... if there were any other items that needed T-C that high, then yeah, I wouldn't think it was so bad because at least there were other things to apply that T-C to, but...
they should of made the effect permanent when you stealth with the Oblit. Then you need drugs to break it, and the longer you stay in stealth the more SI you get until around 80% you come out of stealth.
Psyco Groupie
30-01-04, 01:43
just make oblit ... hit slot, fire your stleathed .. same again to 'un stealth' with some sorta maximum time and or synap .. time is alot kinder considering the reqs
Originally posted by Nicor
Hi all,
I am french and I have been playing a spy on Venus since 10 months. Patch 195 made the obliterator duration 33% lower. Why??? This is a tool with very high requirements, if not the highest (DEX 120 INT 95 TC 110) . This tool has no other positive effect but its duration. Prior to the patch I was already thinking it should last 2 min or more, and I was also thinking maybe it should be "protected " against the stealth-remover spell. Now I am very disapointed. Why did they make it 30 sec shorter ??? Was it really taht important for the balance of the game??? I really dont think so. Not so many players used it, and we used it mainly in order to play our game as a spies, that is to say observe, spy and inform our clan about the ennemy....
Can somebody give me a real and valuable explanation about that? I dont think so, but please, try ...
:mad: I agree with you completely. A very high requirement tool, wasn't causing any balance problems, and they nerfed it. So many things that still need fixing and they pick on the oblit.:mad:
Callash nerfed Stealth III from 45 seconds to 30 seconds because he wanted to make a reason for people to use the Rare stealth tool. He nerfed Obliterator because I don't know why. It's on this page of Test 223's discussion (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88078&perpage=30&pagenumber=5).
That's the reasoning, anyway. Like most in this thread, I don't agree with it.
My suggestion was if he's gonna nerf Obliterator's time, at least give it a Distract Mind function. Oh well.
Originally posted by Archeus
they should of made the effect permanent when you stealth with the Oblit. Then you need drugs to break it, and the longer you stay in stealth the more SI you get until around 80% you come out of stealth.
omg for what? so you have a infinitly stealthed spy at ever op you are scouting?
so you can count the number of enemies that are rallying against you. Hell you can stand right in the crowd LOL
permastealth? what are we the league of distinguished gentlemen now?
it will overspec the spy. no need for stealth thats hours long. you have no idea how that can throw of balance or even exploited
Originally posted by Gohei
Anyhow, hope KK will put the Obliterator back to its original state soon.
not only the oblib, do all the stealthtool times back to original.
think that guy who had this idea was more then stoned ...
Originally posted by WebShock
so you can count the number of enemies that are rallying against you
I generally thought the idea of stealth was for suprising people and scouting, just peeps use it now to escape death.
If they gimp enough the oblit should have some features making it worth the gimpage.
Just put it back to its original length
Originally posted by WebShock
omg for what? so you have a infinitly stealthed spy at ever op you are scouting? - Well it is a spy a chance to never see him
so you can count the number of enemies that are rallying against you. Hell you can stand right in the crowd LOL - erm yeah thats the gist of it
permastealth? what are we the league of distinguished gentlemen now? - there spies? get a clue
it will overspec the spy. no need for stealth thats hours long. you have no idea how that can throw of balance or even exploited
- And you do know how it could be exploited?
LoL like im gonna walkin to that "talk about exploits" conversation. better luck next time gadget.
listen, permanent stealth is a stupid idea. its like asking for the return of the old school hybrid. way to much.
If the oblit was major gimpage then i would agree that it should be a minute and a half, check this out though
run from one end of a sector to another. Guess how long it takes?
a minute, and thats if you are ath agl gimped.
permastealth is overkill. if thats the case make it so that my HL can target you in steatlh. I dont know about you but i cant see the fuzz while you are obliterated. Stealth tools all have that fuzz.
Asking for a stealth tool that cant be true sighted, is like asking for a rare gatlin cannon. to much of a boost that will tip the scale way off the little balance it already has.
Yes if you are a spy you arent to be seen, but perma stealth? :rolleyes:
I do see the points of the major gimp the oblit brings and how it decreases your ability to be pure specced. On that point i concede. It's going to be hard justifying a permanent stealth.
Have to agree permanent is way too much.
I always thought it would be nice to get 2 mins myself - just about enough to lose all the SI from genrepping.
Just for the record, Nicor is one of the best spies on the Venus server, with excellent resilience due to his use of the right stealth tools including Obliterator.
He is an enemy to my clan. He is however highly valued among us as being able to use every single interesting tactics that can be brought by a spy, sometimes taking the defense of OPs single handedly, not necessarily with success. But this is not overpower, this is harassment mainly :p
I'd like to back up his point 100%. Sadly, there is too much whine about stealth on this side of the forum, with the sole motivation of being able to kill every player in the game at its best with one own's character. It might not be Callash's motivation, but it nerfed the wrong thing in the end.
I'll tell you what we try to do with Nicor when he suddenly unstelath and gets in our local: we run around and look for him, sometimes barrel around to see if he's caught, but most time, we go our way and wait to hear about our turret being down or OP being hacked to return to the fight... spies always reappear no matter the stealth tool, and can't do anything in the meantime.
Originally posted by Rinaldo
Just for the record, Nicor is one of the best spies on the Venus server,
He is however highly valued among us as being able to use every single interesting tactics that can be brought by a spy,
And what relevance does skill have to do with fulfilling his insane request?
if being a good player gets you what you want then i request kk take away random damage on my HL and ability to use a capped SD on my apu.
:rolleyes:
you present a moot point my friend. some of the things he is asking for are just way too... exagerrated.
perm stealth or rather stealth until it no longer becomes viable.
For example Oblit work for 10 seconds, then you get 1% SI. When you get to say 10 or 20 SI it drops you out of stealth.
It would mean the spy could spy for long but not too long without seriously gimping themselves.
omg for what? so you have a infinitly stealthed spy at ever op you are scouting?
Long-lasting Stealth is useful if you're traveling through hostile territory. Because the Stealth tool does not have a "Distract Mind" function, once you destealth you become visible to any monsters in the area, like herds of DoY Defense Units. When you restealth they can still see you, hence my suggestion that Distract Mind be added to Obliterator in lieu of the 30 extra seconds of duration it used to have...
Webshock, you are only quoting extracts.
My argument is that a player with strong skills playing a spy will still be beaten. The nerf that we have seen on the Obliterator is mainly irrelevant to the 'überness' of spies. You could make the Obliterator 2 minutes it would still make it difficult for them to survive if they want to attack and / or defend.
That way, I would hope my comment is valid and on topic. It is just too bad to get this kind of remark from someone who just wants to make parallel with the caracteristics of psi monks, the nerf of which can be perceived as not justified too, but is another matter ;)
Shadow Dancer
30-01-04, 17:47
Originally posted by WebShock
permastealth? what are we the league of distinguished gentlemen now?
roflmao
I think you mean league of extraordinary gentlemen.
its got nothing to do with making things similar or parrallel or hey.. heres another word... balance
You bring in perma stealth and you loose the balance.
Tell me why you think perma stealth is a good idea. I will tell you why i think its not. maybe then we will see anothers point
/edit: @ SD eeeer yea what he said! ^^
@Webshock - Nicor never asked for Perma-Stealth. He asked for the mad nerf to be undone and mentioned that he had once hoped it might be improved slightly - 2 mins or no anti-spell.
Give the guy a break or at least try to tell us why you think it should have been nerfed as it has.
Absolutely right Jernau. This is just a discussion and I absolutely have no problem with the Obli-nerf, although I would like to heat about the effect it has on balance.
I also wanted to give a bit of background to Nicor's original message.
greendonkeyuk
30-01-04, 19:28
i have a spy. i dont even use stealth 3 most of the time tbh. i dont feel that i need anything above stealth 2 duration (20 seconds still i hope) to scout/evacuate/reconnoitre an area. My question comes on the flipside of this discussion.... that is why do you feel you need to use an obliterator in the first place? i never ever needed a minute and a half to run and scout. i dont mind the nerf to be honest, i accept its happened, i see the problem its caused but in the short term i would advise the player to change his own tactics to suit the current situation. Its a nice thought that KK might listen to you with this change, but tbh theres about 6 million monks in the queue in front of you and they whine louder.... :eek:
check this out fellas, this is what im talking about
Originally posted by Nicor
Hi all,
Prior to the patch I was already thinking it should last 2 min or more, and I was also thinking maybe it should be "protected " against the stealth-remover spell. Now I am very disapointed. Why did they make it 30 sec shorter ??? :mad:
O_o
it takes a minute or less to cross 1 sector maybe 2. Depending on your speed. Protected from true sight?
:wtf: :wtf:
you all dont think thats bs?
Why make it 30 secs shorter? Cuz people use the stealth tools in lame ways.
If you dont think thats a little to much check this next one out
Originally posted by Archeus
they should of made the effect permanent when you stealth with the Oblit. Then you need drugs to break it, and the longer you stay in stealth the more SI you get until around 80% you come out of stealth.
O_o
why? with SI that high you will be barely be able to move. what point is there? other than standing around punching people while stealthed, or worse dropping a bunch of turrets. the way you make this sound, all i have to do is drug up on transport drugs get a support booster and have 10 turrets out in no time.
more so, another lame thing is to sit there out in the open giving all types of intelligence reports without being able to be seen. might as well ask to get the gm ability to be invicible. If you want to do that get a droner and use scout drones. If you all dont think that a say.., 5-10-15 minute stealth is a unfair advantage than all of you are smoking crack. at least with the drone you can be killed.
infinite invicibility is not very diffrent than using a LE scout. its lame and not needed.
Webshock, why are you determined to drag this off-topic?
Do you have any real arguments in favour of this nerf or are you just trying to act the tit?
In case you didn't notice stealth is a SPY tool. Maybe some spies might use it to SPY on others. Is that such a shock to you that people might act in character?
Who cares how long it takes to run across a sector? How is that relevant? Not all spies want to run away, some want to contribute - by SPYing.
Are you getting it yet?
I agree abso-fucking-lutely. The obliterator is only useable by gimped spies like myself, and its 90 seconds can be a bugger anyway when you find an enemy you can kill but cant cuz ure stealthed. But its the ultimate reconnaisance tool and its fault cancels out its plus points. Back to 90 secs KK quickly, before i start petitions of "BRING BACK THE OBLITERAOR", just like back in the crappy lib days.
bah ive said my peace.
good luck whining and griping ya buncha girl scouts.
how about you adapt yourselves to the change just like i am to my psi nerf.
Forget My Name
31-01-04, 04:29
Obliterator needs to be put back to how it was.
Useless then, even more useless now.
I wish one day spies will actually be able to SPY on someone or some clan.
Shadowbane has multiple ways of perma-stealthing. No one ever whined about that.
Fix the Obliterator so you can
1) perma stealth
2) be seen by ONLY another spy with some sort of goggles or helm
3) Only use it when you are 95% health or more.
number three makes it more of a SPY tool then a run away tool.
Originally posted by Callash
Stealth was one of the "generally broken" type of stuff. Wanna know why? I never used Obliterator. Seriously, never. With Stealth times like they were (10/22/45/90), I never used Obliterator.
*emphasis added
That's Quality Assurance for you.
Sorry Callash but you're wrong. Spies don't spec all those points for nothing. Now very few will spec it at all since it is gimp.
Obliterator's being lowered to 100 TC (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88985).
That's 30 points freed up for me...
YES! Now I can drive a Tank, or have Agility, or repair better, or add 6 levels of RC!
The choices, the choices, the choices...
Originally posted by IceStorm
Obliterator's being lowered to 100 TC (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88985).
That's 30 points freed up for me...
YES! Now I can drive a Tank, or have Agility, or repair better, or add 6 levels of RC!
The choices, the choices, the choices... It is a welcome change, but they still need to put the time back to 90 seconds.
I also like how monk PA gets an immediate fix...
- Changed monk PA penalty from -15/20/25/30 (PA1/2/3/4) Athletics to -10/15/20/25 Agility
...but the tank PA continues to suck. The speed penalty tanks get when they pull out there weapon is already INSANE, there is no need to make it worse with PA.
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