View Full Version : Wow antiheal drone. is that like the spell then?
or something else? sounds sweet.
I had a GM test it on me before the newest patch on test server
and it didnt work then, hope its fixed now. Its like some sort of
ballistic weapon drone which does pretty low damage but places
a sanctum like effect on you, im guessing this effect should make
it impossible to cast heal on the person but as i said, didnt work
last I checked.
I guess if it works you can say goodbye to holy heal for many :)
Actually the anti-heal drone sounds very neat....hope they have anti-shelter and deflector drones, and anti-catharsis drones.
Originally posted by Duder
Actually the anti-heal drone sounds very neat....hope they have anti-shelter and deflector drones, and anti-catharsis drones.
That would be too much. if they want to give more then one class anti ppu weapon then each class shouldn't get anti weapons take off everything.
i heard the mosquito drone was quite brutal to the monk classes. accurate?
Originally posted by petek480
That would be too much. if they want to give more then one class anti ppu weapon then each class shouldn't get anti weapons take off everything.
But think how many tradeskill spy alts would lom to drones....
QuantumDelta
28-01-04, 20:41
Originally posted by petek480
That would be too much. if they want to give more then one class anti ppu weapon then each class shouldn't get anti weapons take off everything. They'd have to relaunch every time they wanted to change, hehe.
As for anti cath, I don't think a droner should be able to debuff a 300 mana spell(? can't remember), like the anti heal works.
Shadow Dancer
28-01-04, 20:42
omg droners are gonna be useful?
SEX!
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
They'd have to relaunch every time they wanted to change, hehe.
hmm good point:p
But a group of spies with different drones would take down lone ppus....sounds like fun....
always thinking of the PPUs. :p You not realise how much of a total rape this will be to non PPU classes. :lol:
Originally posted by Duder
But a group of spies with different drones would take down lone ppus....sounds like fun....
So you're saying that a GROUP of people, set up with the right equipment, shouldn't be able to kill one PPU?
Originally posted by Lethys
So you're saying that a GROUP of people, set up with the right equipment, shouldn't be able to kill one PPU?
Sounds like duder is for the idea, not against *thwack*
Originally posted by Lethys
So you're saying that a GROUP of people, set up with the right equipment, shouldn't be able to kill one PPU?
uh they should, i dont really get your flame...
Oh, and think that the anti-heal drones can only be used by 2 droners together, you know, TO CREATE BETTER TEAMWORK BETWEEN PEOPLE.
Also make 2 kinds of droners, an Aggressive Droner that has drones that shoot lighting, and Passive droners that can cast holy drone shelter to other drones and nano repair drone that repair other drones in the air, and they have scout drones.
AND THEY HAVE TO WORK IN A TEAM OR AGGRESSIVE DRONERS KILLING PEOPLE ALONE WOULD GET -5000% MALUS TO THEIR WILLPOWER BECAUSE THEY CANT KILL WITHOUT A BUFFMACHINE.
QuantumDelta
28-01-04, 20:55
Originally posted by Archeus
always thinking of the PPUs. :p You not realise how much of a total rape this will be to non PPU classes. :lol: Lets see;
Wont bother PE (Stealth).
Wont bother Spy (Stealth).
Wont bother APU (Damage/Range).
Wont bother PPU (Recast rate/Para).
Providing those are played by good players :p
Originally posted by Duder
uh they should, i dont really get your flame...
If the ppu skill > then the people trying to kill the ppu then they shoudln't be able to kill them. And tbh thats how it is now.
Originally posted by petek480
If the ppu skill > then the people trying to kill the ppu then they shoudln't be able to kill them. And tbh thats how it is now.
Lethys meant that any spy drone posse with "higher" or "lower" "skill" then the PPU would never be able to kill a ppu.....which ive never said hahah i think.:cool:
Originally posted by Duder
Lethys meant that any spy drone posse with "higher" or "lower" "skill" then the PPU would never be able to kill a ppu.....which ive never said hahah i think.:cool:
Ah I thought that he meant any group of people with the right equipment, as in anti spells, should be able to take down a ppu.
The raptor has about 220 rof and the mosquito about twice that, mosquito rocks for dmg output but bearing mind it seems to be the weakest drone i've came accross :p The anti heal drone puts a drug type counter on you so afaik you wont be able to heal for about 10 secs mabey slightly more, not sure if it effects sanctums. This might finally give droners a use in op wars, and i think its great as not only did droners need it, but its one of the only classes that wont be overpowered with it as the stealth spies from the opposition find droners and rip them apart with no trouble at all :)
Shadow Dancer
28-01-04, 21:10
QD archeus is right. I mean i use antibuff to rape non ppus left and right. Anti-heal will also be incredibly effective, especially if the droner works in conjunction with an apu or someone else. I would definitely work on teaming up with my droner to kill ppus or other members. I can't count the number of times i've "almost" kill a ppu who had just gotten off a heal, or the same for their teammates.
Hell, there's been a few occasions where i've killed a ppu or apu/ppu with Brillo's help. Brillo is a droner in my clan. I know after this patch hits, i'll definitely want to work on my teamwork with him, because I know how deadly anti-heal will be.
The reason antibuff works so good against non ppus is because the ppu can't know EXACTLY when someone's shield gets debuffed. SO it will be the same for their heal.
I wonder what's the RoF on the anti-heal drone. O_o
EDIT: To the above poster, is your information accurate? I thought the anti-heal drone takes away heal spell. But if it PREVENTS heal spell for a limited amount of time, that's like 20x more deadly. I can DEFINITELY see lots of droners popping up, if that was the case.
I think the raptor antiheal was more like 30 secs.
so how many months till there's a nerf the droners thread/threads?
You know, this is gonna be grand... "Ah fuck someone hacked
tezla... we have any droners on? no? Ah fuck I aint going..."
:D
Well I sure like how KK rather balance ppus by making there jobs more stressful instead of balancing them and making there job easier.
Shadow Dancer
28-01-04, 21:16
Originally posted by petek480
Well I sure like how KK rather balance ppus by making there jobs more stressful instead of balancing them and making there job easier.
How about both?
What would you do to make ppus less stressfull without further imbalancing them?
This is a sincere question btw.
Oh and Rade, I can definitely see that happening. I know I'll be asking for droners in my team, if this makes it in.
It will only be effective if you shoot the ppu before he gets a heal off otherwise for 15seconds of the 30 seconds anti heal effect the ppu will be healing.
Also if the ppu can cast a heal sanctum before he gets shot he will be able to heal the whole time.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
How about both?
What would you do to make ppus less stressfull without further imbalancing them?
This is a sincere question btw.
By making s/d selfcast or at least make them weaker when cast on someone else. But no KK keeps listening to all the fucking whining n00bs that can't 1vs1 a ppu so they bitch about it on the forums.
Oh and rade this is what i was talking about in that other thread last night and why people are always so defensive when someone talks about nerfing ppus.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
EDIT: To the above poster, is your information accurate? I thought the anti-heal drone takes away heal spell. But if it PREVENTS heal spell for a limited amount of time, that's like 20x more deadly. I can DEFINITELY see lots of droners popping up, if that was the case.
When i tested it the anti-heal effect wasnt working but there was a counter placed on me and those i tested on, so im presuming this counter will prevent healing while on, otherwise it means while the counter is on you cant anti-heal again which i dont think will be the case as it would make the drones useless.
And yes i can see more droners with this patch but im doubtfull how long most of them will last, unlike tank-o-cron or monk-o-cron, droners arent going to be all-powerfull in battle and you will die alot so class-hopers will most likely get bored, however hopefully it will boost the numbers slightly when people realise how fun it is reguardless of the negative factors. People who jump on the bandwagon of classes just for new toys tend to do it so they can win every battle, as a droner thats not likely to happen :p
Edit: it is making it in check the announcement forum, and i dont think it will be overly important to a battle just really good to have (how it should be with all classes imo), if you have them available they'll be a great addition to a team but i cant see them causeing the outcome of a battle to turn except in marginal cases.
yeah lets do what KK ALWAYS does, and instead of giving droners a small boost, lets just boost em to the moon. THen a thing that you cant even target and a person you cant kill (if he knows how to hide) can just kill everyone, and then every bandwagon jumper can make a droner.... and then months later KK will nerf em back down... let the cycle continue!
I agree with having the importance of PPUs reduced (Note: Reduction in importance does not = nerf...) but tbh this isn't the way to go about it, personally I beleive that the best way to reduce the importance of PPUs is self cast shields only... unfucks pretty much everything imo (some guns would have to be tweaked but thats about all...). This anti-heal drone while on paper might sound like "OMGZ NEIC IDEAZ LOL BAI BAI Pee pee uus" but in game you can bet that it will increase the number of PPUs in op wars and so, aswell as the number of droners... (which is not a bad thing tbh, it will be though if it gets to silly proportions like it is with monks atm).
The drone would actually work if it just worked like the spell and had a lowish rof (30-40/min... hell, maybe even lower), but by preventing a heal being cast for 15-30 secs of time literally signs the death warrant of most people in op wars... taking some of the skill out of the game tbh.
BTW does the drone prevent other people casting heals on you?
Clownst0pper
28-01-04, 21:30
yeah lets do what KK ALWAYS does, and instead of giving droners a small boost, lets just boost em to the moon. THen a thing that you cant even target and a person you cant kill (if he knows how to hide) can just kill everyone, and then every bandwagon jumper can make a droner.... and then months later KK will nerf em back down... let the cycle continue!
Why do you continually talk out your arse?
Simple solution to all drones - APU.
Problem fixed.
And no one can hide well enough not to be found, the terrain isnt intricate enough.
Get real VetteroX
Lol if all these droners are going to bombard a zone where are they all going to hide :p :lol:
Edit: oh and Clownst0pper is right drones die so easily and apus and ppus with their no aim can take them out easily. Hell even a tank with a ravenger or a rifle user can take them out with a good aim, the only people who have a prob with them is melee and pistol users which is how it should be. They are using short range weapons agaisnt a long range weapon user.
There are places where you can hide... quite well; with a little bit of know how that is.
Also at certain heights its hard to see a drone, target it etc... also during an op war or skirmish it might be a tad tricky for the apu to hunt around the skyline to find the drone and then blow it out of the sky... all the while being shot by enemies and having shite fps because of not having force fog on.
QuantumDelta
28-01-04, 21:33
Originally posted by Cyphor
Lol if all these droners are going to bombard a zone where are they all going to hide :p :lol: I've designed a great Droner/repairer based defence plan for jeriko op, works a treat and will probably be even better now.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Lets see;
Wont bother PE (Stealth).
Wont bother Spy (Stealth).
Wont bother APU (Damage/Range).
Wont bother PPU (Recast rate/Para).
Providing those are played by good players :p
You mean like no one there uses heal at all? Only medkits? Don't think so. :)
And it stops you from casting heal onto the person (which afair is the same as anti-heal spell) doesn't just disable it.
As for the PPU they will probably be the least affected by it as they can look after themselves easier then they can a person they can't see the buffs on. So it will still probably be the PPU whos last to die.
I'm sure it's a great idea, but if holy para is still as effective against drones as it used to be then it probably won't make a great deal of difference. Remember that though RoF was reduced, the actual damage output was increased so holy para still does the same amount of damage now as before the para nerf patch.
Originally posted by Possessed
Also at certain heights its hard to see a drone, target it etc...
The thing is a drones range tends to be quiet short, alot shorter than you might think(firing range) so although the droner can take the drone way up in the sky so its a dot on your screen, bar he's using a laser drone he wont be able to hit you. And if he is using a laser drone a apu on med packs should be able to out-heal him :p
Originally posted by Scikar
I'm sure it's a great idea, but if holy para is still as effective against drones as it used to be then it probably won't make a great deal of difference. Remember that though RoF was reduced, the actual damage output was increased so holy para still does the same amount of damage now as before the para nerf patch.
No holy para does less damage and takes forever to cast as well as a huge mana drain. All those para shots you are seeing these days are the lower level spells which will magically vanish next patch too.
Btw, a good droner can hide pretty much well outside the range of a fight. Julia Chambers (before I lommed her to a trader) could fly a drone from the top left to pretty much the bottom right of a zone. Once you hugged the ground and double backed before taking off it was pretty hard to find the meatsack (Jaggeh did it so much better then me).
Btw, Thank you KK. I would prefer to see counters rather then nerfs. I don't mind someone having a counter for an attack/defense as it means they have to make the choice to load out to deal with it. Nerfing is the lazy mans way out.
Arch, I think he was talking about the range of the weapon on
the drone not the range from the drone to the meatsack.
My point wasnt that a droner is hard to hide, its that with all these droners that people sem to be expecting in op wars, how ill they all find a place in a zone :) One or two droners can hide easily 4 or 5 on each side thats another story :p
And im not saying the range of the drones is less than expected, i mean the range of their weapons, the mosquito for example has to get in supprisingly close to its target for it to hit.
Originally posted by Rade
Arch, I think he was talking about the range of the weapon on
the drone not the range from the drone to the meatsack.
Range is dependant on the skill and quality of the drone. I have watched Jaggeh pop heads from really high up. Granted once an APU knows where the fire is coming from they can whack it fast enough, but was still amazing to watch Jaggeh drop multiple people with revenges with ease.
I actually have a mid lvl droner atm but it will be hard to get his dex to 120 without using drugs all the time till he caps.
Also the anti heal having a freq of 220/min would be too high.
Imagine 1 anti-heal drone could anti-heal a whole group in a matter of seconds. And if that was followed by a few friendly :p revenge drones then it could be really interesting.
I already have my Special Riggers Interface and Riggers Dream. Let's rock. :)
And Vett, a single droner wont ever be able to dominate in PvP like a single hybrid could.
Originally posted by Archeus
Range is dependant on the skill and quality of the drone. I have watched Jaggeh pop heads from really high up. Granted once an APU knows where the fire is coming from they can whack it fast enough, but was still amazing to watch Jaggeh drop multiple people with revenges with ease.
Just as there is a range where you can no longer hit people with psi spells the same is with drones, it has nothing to do with the skill of the droner, once range is capped there is stil a point where you move the drone to far away and the shots dont hit, the weapons effect doesnt go as far as your drone is from the target. Im not talking about how far you can fly the drone, or how a skilled droner can do well in pvp by keeping their drone at optimum range and using its speed to stop from being targeted, thats the same with any good pvper, stand still and dont use your weapons capabilities to your advantge and you wont last long. The point i was making is that there is a range cap on the weapon of the drone and for the new ones and most of the pvp drones it is within hitting distance of most players with a ranged weapon.
Originally posted by Netphreak
I actually have a mid lvl droner atm but it will be hard to get his dex to 120 without using drugs all the time till he caps.
Also the anti heal having a freq of 220/min would be too high.
Imagine 1 anti-heal drone could anti-heal a whole group in a matter of seconds. And if that was followed by a few friendly revenge drones then it could be really interesting.
For a droner to cap a const built tl 120 drone they will need to severly gimp themselves, no tradskills, no high lvl stealth, very low agility etc, the few droners who spec all points into rmc and wlp and fully cap a raptor will find themselves easy targets once found, slow, no stealth and little resists. Also there is no one hit kills in this game so a droner wont really be able to solo kill many people using a raptor, by the time he drops it launches a revenge gets it to them explodes it launches a second and gets it too them, he is most likely dead from them following the drones or their health is back to full as thier anti heal wore off. Obviously some people will die to these tactics but a good team wont. Two droners pking on the other hand...
The reason im trying to defend droners is that i can already see people thinking their overpowered without even seeing them in action, let the patch run for a few weeks till theres a decent amount of the new drones on the servers before making any judgements. I have tested them one on one and i dont think thier too bad but i cant say they wont be overpowered as ive not seen them in real in-game situations, lets wait and see how things pan out, and thank kk for listening. It was us who asked for anti heal weapons to be given to other chars not long ago...
Originally posted by Archeus
No holy para does less damage and takes forever to cast as well as a huge mana drain. All those para shots you are seeing these days are the lower level spells which will magically vanish next patch too.
Are you sure? Because I'm fairly certain it said in the patch notes that though holy para RoF was reduced, its damage (not the shock effect) was increased in accordance to allow PPUs to still complete missions etc.
I know the para spells used atm are only low level ones, but if this drone becomes a threat to PPUs then I'm sure most will start carrying around holy para if it's still effective against them.
Psycho Killa
28-01-04, 23:27
Id honestly rather see a psi nerf then other classes keep getting ppu counters.
If we keep getting counters it gives us more to worry about during the op fight. The truely good ppus will overcome and adapt while the ones who struggle keeping a team alive now will just plain suck further splitting the boundary between uber monks and shitty ones.
If i just didnt spend the time making my pe id make a droner now it was the most fun char ive made (during most of beta) and i got a 80 dex or so droner on saturn also. Though the only one thing keeping me from droners still is the fact that once they blow up thats it you gotta make friends with every researcher and constructer in the game. I like the if they blow up they go to 0 condition idea. Other people can pick them up and use them or the droner can get it back and repair it for pvm.
O holy para use to cut through drones so quick it was rediculous almost like a holy lightning. I dunno if thats been changed though.
darkservent
28-01-04, 23:37
Ill definatly make a prediction now that droners seem to have a good path goin and will be more viable. Now with anti heal drones out itll be more viable to use em in OP wars. But then u ppl seem to be afraid of where to hide. I would say hidin like 10 droners will be v simple once the scouts come out. Droner heaven itll be when the space ships are released. U may say ok lets send out another scout to hunt them droners. but then there are high tops where u can hide pretty effectivly. I can defianatly see a xcellent future for droners.
A drone that casts a timer which prevents you from healing for 30+ seconds is an awful idea. Most people agree that drones need a boost but this is crazy.
I don't know why people keep complaining about the power of holy heal and shields. At every fight I see plenty of dead APUs, tank, spies, and PEs. They had PPU shields on them and heals and it is still possible to take them down. Plenty of PPUs get killed also and if a few of them get away, I really don't care. Whether they GR out or die, their team just lost the fight.
What I can't stand is when you kill one of the damage dealers and then see him rezzed and attacking again. The nerf to rez was an awesome change on KKs part which really helped this problem. I think they need to do a little more. I really want some way to remove a body from the battlefield. Perhaps some sort of rifle or drone to give spies a crucial role.
*shrug* wont stop people whining next patch that ppus are too powerful o_O
As for me, I'll be putting my Rhino shield on, try and debuff that byatch.
Originally posted by Duder
and anti-catharsis drones.
lol? You know how much mana it takes to cast cartharsis?
Originally posted by RayBob
A drone that casts a timer which prevents you from healing for 30+ seconds is an awful idea. Most people agree that drones need a boost but this is crazy.
I don't know why people keep complaining about the power of holy heal and shields. At every fight I see plenty of dead APUs, tank, spies, and PEs. They had PPU shields on them and heals and it is still possible to take them down. Plenty of PPUs get killed also and if a few of them get away, I really don't care. Whether they GR out or die, their team just lost the fight.
What I can't stand is when you kill one of the damage dealers and then see him rezzed and attacking again. The nerf to rez was an awesome change on KKs part which really helped this problem. I think they need to do a little more. I really want some way to remove a body from the battlefield. Perhaps some sort of rifle or drone to give spies a crucial role.
i agree that the 30 sec no heal with a 220/min rof is a bit high... maybe 15 sec no heal with 30-40/min rof...
the power of holy heals is that if the ppu is good and the dmg dealer is good, u can last indefinitely against a numerically superior foe. And u r right to say it is possible to take them down; but what people complain about is that the presence of a ppu makes up for a lack of skill on the part of the dmg dealer. Before the ppu shelter/rez nerfs, the effectiveness of any dmg dealer was increased at least 200% with the participation of a ppu. Now it is still at least a 100% increase in battle ability with a ppu; anyone that u could beat 1 v 1 can become unbeatble if that person had a ppu.
the para nerfs went a long way to balance things; rez and shelter likewise. But holy heal in particular needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed just toned down by like 10-15% rather than a complete nerf). As any long term pvper knows, nothing is more annoying than when ur pounding on an enemy and nearly has him dead when a ppu holy heals him and in less than 3 seconds he's got 75% of his hp back.
Afaik all these figures have been taken from before the raptor was working properly (today, i think not been on to test) and so are speculation so lets stop complaining and give it a go when its in retail, when they fixed the anti-heal ability they may have fixed duration/effect or it might only remove certain heal ticks on the durations, who knows, lets wait and see.
Clownst0pper
29-01-04, 01:48
Well its out in like 14 hours, and the full DOY list shouldnt be long either :)
i dont think drones should have an anti heal sanctum on a person that will be a bit overpowered i would much rather see just a drone doing anti heal anti shelter anti deff liek the spell 5 or 10 sec of not being able to get heal is the death for almost any person
Some facts:
-The Raptor has a RoF of 148 not 220
-It doesnt seem to prevent healing on the testserver,so no 'anti-heal time'.
-It stops healing like a drug does ,as in removes the stack but that takes a few secs to go in effect.
-PN does about 45-50/burst to a tank in full duranium armor 148 energy resist,mos deals about the same to 130 for/prc.
-PN doesnt scratch a PPU,in one launch it can take down one WBt(48/burst) ,spiderbot,2cyclopses and a couple of mutties.
-Mos can take a ppu down that doesnt use his holy heal but just sanc,even with holy heal it seems to hurt.One launch it can take down 1 wb and 2 cyclopses.
Originally posted by craio
Some facts:
-PN doesnt scratch a PPU,in one launch it can take down one WBt(48/burst) ,spiderbot,2cyclopses and a couple of mutties.
-Mos can take a ppu down that doesnt use his holy heal but just sanc,even with holy heal it seems to hurt.One launch it can take down 1 wb and 2 cyclopses.
Don't use energy on PPUs
Originally posted by Archeus
Don't use energy on PPUs
Yeah i know that to, but people said it might do xray and energy damage instead of pure energy,so apperently that aint true.
Originally posted by Archeus
Don't use energy on PPUs
Yeah because piercing, force, xray, fire and poison hurt them so much. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah because piercing, force, xray, fire and poison hurt them so much. :rolleyes:
Fire, force and posion are generally good ones to try on PPUs. they will normally hurt, one more then others.
xray/energy have better resists from thier kit, so even unbuffed I can take a reasonable bit of damage from those types.
Originally posted by Archeus
Fire, force and posion are generally good ones to try on PPUs. they will normally hurt, one more then others.
xray/energy have better resists from thier kit, so even unbuffed I can take a reasonable bit of damage from those types.
Against a good PPU, against the best, it won't make a blind bit of difference which damage type you use. Either you get an APU to antibuff them, get TL3 heal on them and you'll do damage, or you'll do nothing at all. Damage type is mostly irrelevant. Pierce is far superior to force in any situation anyway.
•Super|\|ova•
29-01-04, 14:01
Hehe :) nice gadgets but I think the battles will be such a mess at least at first when these things ar flying around :p
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