View Full Version : ANYONE who has ANY influence over weapon design that can talk to me please?
I just want to talk to someone about ray weapons, about a problem pointed out by scikar in this test server thread: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88503
Now, as you will see there, a few of us think new high tl pistols are a bit too powerful (yes they needed a boost) but KK went a tad far
However this isnt the issue of this thread, look at the comments made by scikar, of this is true... its totaly lame and unbalanced. Rays have too huge an advanatage over other guns.
Lupus used to be the one to talk to about weapons and would respond back, but hes away... can the mods or anyone tell me someone I can contact to talk about ray pistols/rifles?
Lets take an honest look at them: VERY good damage for the tech level in close and medium range... which all pvp takes place at.
Does its full potential damage about 95% of the time... onlike CS, lib, fl, slasher, disruptor the list goes on. It doesnt miss.
It aims extremely Fast
Huge clip on the pistols
Unlike 90% of other guns.. its damage doesnt decrease as a players hp goes down, this is HUGELY unbalanced, as my lib will do like 35 a burst to a tank with full hp and like 7 to a low hp tank... while a raygun will always do the same damage.
Its got to fall in line with other weapons and do low damage to people with low hp, OR have lower damage, OR have a very small clip, OR bad aiming, SOME kind of draw back, but for pvp its got no negatives.... which cant continue if we want balance.
So is there anyone I can pm about this please?
Originally posted by VetteroX
I just want to talk to someone about ray weapons, about a problem pointed out by scikar in this test server thread: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88503
Now, as you will see there, a few of us think new high tl pistols are a bit too powerful (yes they needed a boost) but KK went a tad far
Lupus used to be the one to talk to about weapons and would respond back, but hes away... can the mods or anyone tell me someone I can contact to talk about ray pistols/rifles?
Lets take an honest look at them: VERY good damage for the tech level in close and medium range... which all pvp takes place at.
You can still talk to me about them. I maybe offline but I do check my e-mails every few days.
As for the Rays.. Yes I'm aware of their issues and I have a ton of weapons stuff on it's way. No exact ETA on when but should be a wk or so. I'm just waiting on a few things I need to finish and be able to send it to patch.
If you or anyone wants to talk to me you can still get a hold of me at lupus@neocron.com It may take me a few days to actually respond tho.
QuantumDelta
27-01-04, 21:34
You're ALIVE!!
Where in the blue hell have you been mofo? :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
You're ALIVE!!
Where in the blue hell have you been mofo? :p
he's now sitting in a dark cold cellar making sure that patches work instead of GMing.
omg.... he's back :)
A week? Owww..... but I can't wait that long :(
Good to see your back and not lost in KK's basement! :p
SeXy Happy
28-01-04, 00:49
^^ he means locked of course....dirty KK stealings the Lupus. *Harckkk* *Harckkk*
ffs, hey Vet STFU & stop asking for things to be changed to suit your character set up !
If you cant handle it then switch to ray pistols & alter a few things ingame (although id hate to screw up your secret 1337 set up).
There better for a reason & not by accident or bad balance. Ray pistols are better than your piss-ant TL 93 Libby is because we spent precious points in T-C so we can use them, & they therefore should be better than your lower spec libby.
Please try a few different things in-game first before posting your christmas wish list here.
GM's please take all Vet's posts with a grain of salt & draw your conclusions from wider community opinion & not from serial pest posters hoping to bias the game toward their playing style.
Thank you. :o
oh boo hoo ever came to think that the liberator should be the
worst pistol bar wyatt considering the TL and the lack of T-C
needed?
Ya, lib is too strong, but there needs to be an alternative
Psycho Killa
28-01-04, 05:19
I agree even though vet loves his lib.
Tc needs to waste more dex and the rares are tl 100 105 etc.
Basicaly Tc should do a bit more damage then a nontech at an equal tech level.. and a higher non tech should be added.
Dont worry rade lupus said the lib got tweaked down in the lineup.
your no different then hybreds "stfu whiners, I need my god" Your arguments stupid... Judge is TC, its not good. black sun is better then judge for christs sake. Lupus already said ray weapons are over powered... and if libs nerfed ill just go pain easer again. I have proven, and will prove any time, I will RAPE any rolh user who can give me a tough fight if they use lib, cause rolh takes no skill. They can eaven have a heat 3 buff to make up for the loss of hp and fire, or pop in a moveon and pp, whatever... if they use a lib and I use a lib ill not win, ill murder them... cause lib takes skill. Do you see me complaining about all tc weapons? No, just rays. I think in the new patch slasher is a bit crazy but at least that misses and has to aim a bit ffs.
And no, I WONT use a ray weapon on my lib, I did use blacksun, and I judged it wasnt fair. I owned tanks who I know are very good players who give me a tough fight when I use lib. It felt cheap... it wasnt me beating them, it was the ray gun. Using a weapon thats harder to kill people with increases your skill...
Like i said... if libs nerfed a little ill deal... if its a lot ill use pain easer. If rays are nerfed, your ships sunk.
Rade, lib just powerful when you have skill aiming it... its a hard weapon to use, you have to hit and hit and hit and it aims more sllowly then rays. its damage goes DOWN with low hp like EVERY other gun TECH COMBAT weapons included. Also, something thats unique to smgs, and assult rifles your rectilce has to be dead center on the persons body to hit... energy weapons hit even if your aims on the edge of thier body. You yourself rade said "oh libs hard to aim, I havnt practiced using it" when I made you use it in one duel... it takes more skill then ray... it just cant be argued. Sorry drexel, I dont hop on the "whats the easiest thing to do" train.
Anyway, thx to lupus for helping here and trying to balance the weapons.
And rade, you always wanna duel so badly, come on saturn if you want to you make a pe on saturn and do all the work I did to start on a new server... I got a spy on sat who can fight you with rolh, or slasher if it becomes as insane as it seems it will be... then when these weapons are used on you we will see if your opinion changes.
one more edit... libbys tl 91... your an addmitted carebear and dont know anything about pvp, stay out of this discussion. This is about weapons in pvp not pvm. If you dont often duel, op war, or pk this threads not for you.
I think there needs to be more lowtech rifles at higher TL, maybe a rare gat or something? Rare street model rifle?
Also fix the PE and make it chew less stamina, please! Using all 130 stamina points after firing just a single clip is stupid!
Psycho Killa
28-01-04, 05:40
Street model would be aswesome but its kind of made worthless after SH is out...
It basicaly takes over its roll.
Higher RoF than sh, maybe 40, lower damage, so it's like a semi-auto sniper instead of... single shot slow pOS.
I think there need to be more usable LOW TL weapons... I hate gimping for high TL.. they can follow lupus weapon power but be good... like aim fast and hit a lot etc... then spies could do setups like no dex boosting imps... I think movoeon, pp, berserk 2, st spine 2 distance 3 or movement controller 2 spy or a pe with st spine 3 sf distance 3 pp moveon could be interesing if there were some good low tl weapons... terminator is a good one, but it needs to become more avalible, and we need more good low tl weapons.
Psycho Killa
28-01-04, 06:00
Liberator is tl91 and wyatt earp is being fixed. Now you need a tl 100 or higher to fill in the gaps. You can get 100 dex without gimping yourself in any way.
I think rare gat dex 100
Rare rocket pistol dex 95 (It will make me feel slightly more useful in an op fight but wouldnt do nearly as much as a moon striker so it wouldnt overpower or anything)
I didnt say weapons as powerful as tl 100 105, 108. I mean powerful as in viable... ex, gatlin rifle isnt viable pvp... maybe a tl 85 epic assule rifle, or tl 86 uzi... etc. ... little weaker then pain easer. 100 dex certainly does gimp you as a pe... though im not explaining how on the forums.
Rare gat should be tl 97 or lower... 6 tls higher then lib... trust me that makes a diff, and a pe without sa could use it without gimping himself, sf, bal 3, pa 2, exp reflex 4 = 97 dex. also we need to make auto pistol good... I say fires like pain easer... 3 shot burts, 170 - 190/min max rof, of course each burst hurts much more then lib since it fires much slower. then make a rare version of it... my suggestion would be like lib tl 91 rare gat tl 96 rare auto pistol tl 110, or something like that.
Psycho Killa
28-01-04, 06:05
You can get to 100 dex while still using a pp chip and move on.
You need an SA but thats no problem for you.
There is an epic assault rifle for tsunami unless they changed it.
right... if u get sa, but u wont have enough pc and agil to fire something like judge well... i tried that setup, capped damage but the rof sucked.
Perhaps Mr Vet you should give your ego a rest for one week and let the people who actually produce this game do their job, not to start a flame war or be overly confrontational, but you have some really serious problems dude. Take a step back and think about this for a second; its just a game, we all play this game to have fun, yet you seem to approach this as a job or moreover a duty. Almost every few days there’s a huge drama post from Mr Vet and I’ve been trying really hard not to dignify them with a response, but the title of this thread is just dripping with ego, and I cant help myself.
Look not to get completely off topic i can see the advantages to ray-pistols (I use them myself), and the deficiencies of the other pistols (on retail). I’ve written the liberator off as more or less useless, perhaps that will change with the next patch, but I digress. Each style of play in this game has its advantages and disadvantages which have been re-hashed ad-infinitum on these forums, what you have to realise is that your way is not the only way. Sometimes I think that you’re too caught up in your own sense of self importance to realise this.
Sure there are balance problems, in-fact there are more than a few, but you have to trust the people at reactor to do their jobs. Lupus has shown that they’re taking balance seriously and I’m quite sure he’s working his ass off in conjunction with the rest of the team to produce something workable. With the DOY list on the immediate horizon and its release not to far off I can see this game changing significantly in the near future, and perhaps you will find new styles of play to "be the best at".
In summation can the drama posting it does nobody any good, (with the possible exception of yourself) If you want to treat this game like a job ask KK for employment. Otherwise give everyone else wits a rest.
There was no bragging in this post, only stated facts. As we have seen complaining gets things done... the ray weapons are overpowered. Ill say again you people who dont want rays nerfed are NO different then hybrids who didnt wanna be nerfed... you dont want your overpowered toy taken.. well im sorry, it will be. rays have NO negatives... for balance, every weapon needs posatives and negatives... and rays are gonna get a negative. (and the less damage long range doesnt cut it for pvp... so dont even say it) I want the pvp in this game balanced and so o many others... if you dont pvp alone, go away, this threads not for you.
Nightbrother
28-01-04, 09:50
So you singlehandedly decide that only people who PvP alone get to decide that ray-weapons must be nerfed. I'm not saying I disagree with ray-weapons needing a small nerf, but don't tell people this thread is not for them. Even though some people don't PvP alone, doesn't mean they don't have any imagination or can't think for themselves about what needs to be done with this subject.
KramerTheWeird
28-01-04, 10:32
who cares if vet says he can beat any raygun user if they use their lowtech counterparts.. the fact is he's right about rayguns.
There's another issue with rayguns that needs to be brought up and probably changed. The fact that wherever you hit with a raygun, the damage remains the same, as in no locational. Also like vet said if you just hit the target box of the person you hit them. I didn't know the damage didn't slope down like other weapons do, which can explain some things. Aside from laser weapons, rayguns are the easiest to fire too.
If you think rayguns aren't overpowered, please tell us why instead of going "omg they don't need teh nerf!". We have provided plenty of examples as to why they would need adjusting.
I say both rayguns and fusion, as I believe fusion currently underpowered, to get an adjustment on how their damage increases/decreases. What I mean is that instead of a constant increase from +50% to -50% the base damage, it could work gradually. How I would do this with rayguns is that make distance up close affect the damage of the weapon more, as in 1m away from target will do +50% damage, and then not so far at 3m it only does +30%, to a point that is probably half the total range of the weapon, where the points will taper off. With fusion I would do say the upper 60% range of the weapon do close to 50-20% then the remaining 40% take a dive from 20% to -50%. I hope that makes sense, it'd be easier to show a table of the damage decaying then getting diminishing returns.
People never use the top range of their weapons anyway, at least effectively, the reticle is so open. So the advantages of fusion, and disadvantages of raygun, are nearly nonexistant.
Thank you... see? this is from someone who has used both rog and blacksun, and did very well while using em (he did very well with pain easer too) but has the decentsy to ADMIT its overpowered... I have a RoG pe on saturn... but I ADMIT his rogs overpowered... if you cant admit it, your just spoiled and dont want your weapon nerfed even though you know its too good... like kramer said... if you think its t NOT too good, please explain why?
Jadin Eleazar
28-01-04, 11:05
if you think its t NOT too good, please explain why?
RoG is only usefull at point blank range which is suicidal for spies.
Now with PEs (including RolH) it's a different story, but normally they can't use the high-TL weapons like slasher, disruptor or SH.
And with tanks using devourers it's risky to get close and therefore, the rays need their damage output. Especially when used by spies because they fall like flies to the flamer tanks. And monks? Well, they get pretty good protection from their armor and nuke spies with 3-4 HLs, so no overpowered rays here as well.
Just my 2 cents
Yeah...there's one other disad with using ROLH as a pvp weapon and that is (other than short range, but who fights long range really?) it doesn't do leg shots. Boohoo....no leg shots..doesn't matter if you're doing full damage AND can hit the person dead on everytime =\
I used my libby vs rade (he used ROLH) i got pwned. Hardcore. =\
Granted, these are my own experiences, but it's still interesting to note that.
its really not debaitable.... full damage > locational damage in pvp... anyway, from lupus comments on test forum rays will be toned down...
Ever think that the libby isnt that good because its a low TL and that PEs having a great defence shouldnt have access to the best of weapons?
Libbys arent the easiest to use nor are they as hard as vet would try make them out to be and if anything its slightly over powered.
The only thing wrong with the RoLH is its massive clip size which should be halfed the damage isnt that bad and if it hits all the body so what?Its a feature of the gun either deal or use it but dont whine and try ruin as many weapons as you can because you dont use them.
Pfft. Rayguns dont need nerfing, the other weapons (like judge)
needs toning up. The fact that you dont do locational damage
with the ray weapons, no matter how much you scream about it,
is just as much of a disadvantage as it is a advantage. With
judge I shoot peoples legs out before I kill them, I cant do that
with BS or RoLH. Now, Ive always used energy pistols and never
liked the lib solely out of preference. I still tho think it should be a
viable weapon for PEs, and for its TL i think it damn well is; You
get stupid amounts of defence when you spec that low dex as a
PE. I have fought RoLH users on pluto which imo is better than
you vet, and didnt have a problem. Please feel free to come back
for more duels and lom to rayguns or use a BS if you think they
are so uber but Im not gonna lom from RoLH just because your
ego needs excuses.
Actually. Please remove the non-locational damage feature from
rayguns. For me Its more important to have it than not to *shrug*
After the next patch goes live, liberator, the pulselaser pistols,
raygun pistols, BoH.. will be balanced. The judge still needs a
slight tweak upward but then we're all set.
on my tank i dont fear any class, but i know if if i fight a libby PE, if im on top form ill leave the fight with more health than if i was to fight a ROLH user, its like a no skill weapon with the way the aiming is, thats not to say te users aint skiled, but it does feel like a bit of a cop out weapon, ive not asked for it to be nerfed cos theres only a hand ful of them about that ive seen.
went against a ROLH user last night in neofrag but had had FPS so cant really how well i don against him but i know the aiming is hell of a lot easier than on any of theother weapons.
dont want them to nerf the damage on the weapon but maybe a slight reductionin the aiming.
id like judges to be made a bit better, if judge was the business id lom my pain easer PE to low tech judge setup in a instant.
KramerTheWeird
28-01-04, 12:59
Jadin Ezzar, have you actually ever fired a ray of god from a decent range? I've fired it across outposts and noticed maybe 2-3 less damage, it really takes some distance to make it less effective than other rifles, and in that case silent hunter is always the first choice.
Rade, the Judge is a TL 100 weapon, and it's less effective than blacksun. Blacksun is way too devastating for it's tech level. Just the same is RoG, most spies use it over First Love.. a weapon 16 tech levels higher and is almost as powerful as CS. This isn't telling me that the Judge needs a boost. It's telling me rayguns need toned down. Even if the Judge should get a boost, rayguns should still be toned down. Judge should have the capacity to deal more damage over time than Ray of Last Hope. Right now it can't even compete with non-rare rayguns, but beats every other non-rare pistol.
Judge is better than blacksun, alot better as a matter of fact. And
no, I dont find people with for example RoG overpowered
compared to other classes, I find FL underpowered. And why
should judge be better than RoLH when judge is tl100 and RoLH
is tl108?
rayguns are fine, FL and judge needs a slight boost. I you look at
the changed weapons on test server you will notice that they are
being made to match the power of the raygun type weapons.
And BoH for example is a excellent sniping weapon whereas rolh
is not, and it almot matches the rolh up close now. Just fix the
plasma weapons as wel and we're set.
Most of the weapons are totally out of balance with each other at the moment (pistol and rifle wise)
Ray weapons do have problems, and are much better than their low tech counterparts.
Really it all needs revamping in the TL order so it reflects power.
Perhaps with the rayguns being the top TL items and needing total devotion to that gun to cap it.
From what ive seen, judge still should be used as the benchmark, and guns increased/decreased around that as required.
But in essence, yes, i agree BS/ROLH are overpowered for their TL, if they were higher TL/reqs, i wouldnt find so much cause to complain.
I dont know really. BS, lib and TL92 pulselaser are pretty much
equal in PvP, lib alot better in PvM while BS being the worst
there. Sure BS is lower level and not rare but its also a tech
weapon. After next patch BoH will be close to as good as RoLH up
close, but alot better at distance, and theyre only 3 TLs apart so
that seems about right. Judge is the underdog here, since the
tree TL90ish weapons is about as good but as a PE you get
better defence with those. RoLH is TL108 which is pretty damn
high, shouldnt it be the best weapon? If you compare a PE BS
and a PE RoLH setup you gain about 20% offence, but lose 30%
defence. Now, offence is alot more important than defence so I
think that tradeoff is fair, but I dont see how its overpowered. Of
course for a spy its a small choice to make since they dont lose
anything from using RoLH. Well, after next patch I really dont see
the problem anymore, except for FL and judge (well plasma pistol
line actually, the lower levels are also pathetic) needing a little
boost.
its not that rolh does too much damage for tl 108, its that it does high damage AND aims super fast AND never misses AND have a super large clip AND does 50% more damage close range (all pvp is close) how many times have I had to say this and you dodge the issue? its got to get a viable pvp weakness.. like a small clip, slower aiming or less damage or misses more... something to even the odds.
You egos as big as mine rade you just present it differently... we dueled I won and you stormed off like a 3 year old because his mother wouldnt buy him all the candy he wanted... big deal, so you came back 10 mins later...you still did it. then when you did win you go "oh well see my aiming sucked before, now its how it usually is" as if aiming rolh takes effort. you. I totaly admit I know everyone sometimes has crap aiming and then get "on track" and have good aiming, but you present it in such a stuck up way. It shows you expected to win and couldnt take losing, so leave the ego out... yours is enormous, you just present it in a different way. I have no interest in dueling you...we have had enough duels. I dont like you... I never have, you just dont act like a jerk in game so I am civil when dealing with you... but you do things that anyone can see are lame, ex, claiming your unbeatable... I knew there was a a catch... you cast damage boost sanctom with 2 drugs BEFORE the duel... oh wow, brilliant how ever do you win with an instant db on your enemies (I still won btw) now your using a weapon that is too powerful... lupus said it was too good on the test server forum... its not up for an argument... Win without gimmicks and without overpowered weapons... no that doesnt mean lib, it mean ANYTHING but rays... ANYTHING. and you get respect.
This arguing is just retaded now... some of us say why rays are too good and present why, and others (omg the people who use it *abuse it*) say its not too powerful... exactly the same as the hybrid debait, ppu debait, stealth debait etc.
Im just gonna see what lupus and kk do the next few patches and hop for the best...
Oh ffs great way to twist what happened. I got a hold of you 2 at
night when I already was dead tired, then you stalled for an hour
because there was no place suitable to fight, when we finally got
it going it was 3 at night and I just wanted to get it over with and
hit the sack. Then when you beat me I was annoyed, yes, and
was leaving, when I got halfway to the exit in oz I realised I
wasnt gonna play NC for a week due to the eye surgery so I
came back because I didnt want to quit not feeling Id done my
best and being pissed. Also funny how you neglected to mention
that when I came back and played some more and got my aim to
maybe 75% of where its usually at I started beating you and
when it was even you suddenly didnt want to fight anymore. I
never liked you either so the feeling is mutual, more or less on
the same basis. Still, I will fight you anywhere using my normal
setup, whatever stupid rules you want bar me being dead tired
and drunk and I am confident that I will beat you, and every
other PE.
And your crying about rayguns is pointless, and yes it is up for
discussion, if you dont see how a PE setup using a TL92 weapon
has alot higher defence than a PE setup using a TL108 weapon
then you are blind as a bat. Ive experimented back and forth
between BS and RoLH setups and I find that they are both
equally powerful, the defence and offence losses/gains makes
the choice very hard and I chose RoLH more out of fun than
anything else. Now, BS and liberator are more or less identical in
power, how then is suddenly rolh setups stupidly superior to lib
setups? Why dont you make a RoLH setup then and show
everyone how much you school me with it.
And as for those duels way ago, alot of the people I fought
against used DB sanctum as well, Im sorry but not being psychic I
didnt know that you wouldnt. Lately Ive fought all those people
again, without drugs and with every stupid rule people want. And
again. And again. Always the same result. But as you said, this is
a moot point since weapons such as the laser pistols etc are
getting buffed to match the raygun weapons. Oh and you are
right about one more thing, my ego is big, I can live with that, but
I want things proven through actions and not words.
onoz battle of da egos:p
VET V RADE THE REMATCH!! orsomthing
this is like a grudgematch or something :P
sorry what was that couldnt hear you cos the rocky music is going on in the background:p
edit: i know its written infront of me so dont spoil the fun
:D
editx2(to save more spammage in vets thread)
i could turn this in to a nice picture thread on the forum:D
Soz to go off topic :)
Has anyone noticed that while the two biggest arguers on this thread (Vet/Rade) have perfectly sound arguements, they make sense and are legibile (more than i can say for other people who post on these forums :lol: ), they arent actually changing anyones views? People always post something about nerf such-and-such, but only those who want it nerfed in the first place will agree. No one ever seems to be convinced by others anymore...
Back on topic :p
Nerf one aspect of Ray, perhaps is RoF, but apart from that, I think the other weapons need uborization. Nerfing makes people sad - uborization makes people happy. So I'm sorta sitting on the fence - being a spy for fhqwhgads knows how long and having played pistols/rifles, rays are pretty over-powered compared to other weapons. So perhaps a slight decrease. But the way Vets talking about it... I dont wanna see people posting PETITION HERE: BRING BACK THE ROLH!!!!! all over again :p . Have fun y'all
Originally posted by ezza
onoz battle of da egos:p
VET V RADE THE REMATCH!! orsomthing
Sounds like a FN match ezza, ill get in touch with REMUS. Lets have an iron man, 30 mins of duelling, with rezzes after every death, and the person scoring the most kills wins :p Omigod im a genius.
FL needs double clip size and a major accuracy boost. Disruptor needs a damage boost. Don't know too much about pistols, but i'd say Judge needs to be boosted too.
its not fun anymore though, its annoying. I dont like dueling anymore.. i havnt for a few months its just a pain in the ass. Everyone had the god damn skill manager so nobody has to work anymore. And I beat someone and they still think they are better and just want rematch after rematch... I have been considering retiring from dueling because frankly to beat other really good pes you gotta go with a "dueling setup" ex, no vehcile use , no poison (well, if you are just dueling other pes... and a lot of people do) and if you use a high tl weapons you cant really have a trade skill like poke or hack... its just gotten boring, I prefer having vehcile use to roam the wastes, poison to resit the apus poisoning me wheil im trying to pk, and the ability to hack.. tons of weapon lore and psi use isnt an option, I MUST have peoples items... every weeks I lom my pe a little more and he gets further and further from a "dueling setup" I considered one night while falling asleep making a pure "dueling PE" that would use Rolh and just beat people to shut them up and make them go away... forgot feeling good about myself winning with fair stuff, just pure winning. but I just cant go through leveling again... not even a pe, and fuck the con leveling... I really have more fun pking and joining the occasional op war, and the games for fun. Dueling used to be the fun part of this game for me but it just isnt anymore.
Its just humar nature, 99.9999% of discussion doesnt change
anyones opinions.
I dont have a duelling setup. I have 100 hacking, stealth 2, and
80 poison resist. If anything you have more of a duelling setup
than I do.
The match is off? Damn. I had my giant megaphone and was writing a list of witty stuff I could say while commentating the match. Guess the SAZA'S NUMBER 1 big finger glove should be packed back into the RADE VS VET...... AGAIN!!!!!!! box too. Ahhhhhhh....... fhqwhgads.
KramerTheWeird
29-01-04, 04:10
Rade, you are getting "better" confused with "power", Power is how much damage the weapon can deal or have the potential of dealing. A judge should be more powerful, you know why? Because it's less accurate and takes more precision to hit with. A first love, people underestimate because it has the potential of doing more damage than ray of god over time. The only reason this is because of the tech level, which is much higher than ray of god. Again, people choose ray of god over it in most situations, because ray of god does a lot of damage at a consistant basis. First Love is no where as consistant or accurate.
And no way is a tl 92 pulselaser comparable to a liberator. It is severely bugged and the damage it deals is miniscule compared to a liberator. Have you ever actually done damage tests to compare between the two? Have you ever dueled with it, over a blacksun, or a liberator, or a judge? You would see then how comparable it is.
Oh and don't think having more dex sacrifices defense as much as you say. I can have the same defense using lowtech pistols as using a ray of god, without drugs.
Dribble Joy
29-01-04, 04:27
You can use 100 TL guns with ppr/moveon and no drugs, but to get anything like decent rof, agl will be APPALING, even with an SA I still only get 160 rpm on my judge, and with redflash 78 agl O_o
KramerTheWeird
29-01-04, 04:43
Yes but because of PA it makes it a reality that wasn't possible before. I used moveon/ppr with ray of god and had supurb resists, still capping damage and aiming. Rade has fought me with that setup before, was easier for me to beat her than with my liberator that's for sure.
Dribble Joy
29-01-04, 05:07
Yes, before PEPA, I used a dist3 instead of moveon.
TBH, the mainstat malus/bonus on PEPA should be removed, it opens up too many overly viable setups.
i agree with kramer... like i said... not sure if it was this thread or test thread, ON PAPER lib is very good, like if you say 370 min X damag ea bullet... but theres so many things to factor in. bullets miss likfe crazy, it aims more slowly then ray pistols, etc etc. rays are the only weapons that are totaly consistant.. PLUS do huge damage. Its just not even... they way it should work is that rolh actually does less damage then judge, but, it aims faster, and always does its full potential damage... burst weapons like judge (it says "double barreled" but bullshit, its burst) lib, pain etc should do more damage a bullet because they miss sometimes... also due to thier bursting, it should disrupt the aim... just like in real life, but a landed burst should do a lot of damage.
Psycho Killa
29-01-04, 05:18
A tl 91 weapon should do more damage then a tl 108? Certainly if they where the same tech level you could say since it aims better so it should do less damage but ITS tl 108 for crying out loud dont forget you gotta ultra gimp yourself to use rolh.
well like you said, pp movon sa sf on judge gives crap rof... and to me, a drug to use your weapon just isnt viable, especially one that takes -10 hp. If judge becomes better and lib worse, I may have to go judge... in that case id use distance so I could free up more dex points for agil and pc... though i really wont like losing hp and resits.
where did I say 91 beat tl 108? I meant judge should do more damage a hit then rolh... because judge actually misses, rolh doesnt. In the end, especially while moving, rolh would do more damage then judge, because it always hits... judge would miss a lot, as does lib.
oh i see where i said lib etc should do more damage a bullet... i meant an smg would do more damage a hit then a ray of same tl, but a ray would hit all the time where as the smg would miss, so it would be even damage.... because of randomness the smg would sometimes do more and sometimes less, while the ray always did same damage.
Psycho Killa
29-01-04, 05:24
Originally posted by VetteroX
ilib, pain etc should do more damage a bullet because they miss sometimes...
I thought you meant more damage a bullett as compared to rohl.
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
And no way is a tl 92 pulselaser comparable to a liberator. It is severely bugged and the damage it deals is miniscule compared to a liberator. Have you ever actually done damage tests to compare between the two? Have you ever dueled with it, over a blacksun, or a liberator, or a judge? You would see then how comparable it is.
Oh and don't think having more dex sacrifices defense as much as you say. I can have the same defense using lowtech pistols as using a ray of god, without drugs.
Im talking about the new testserver stats on tl92 pulselaser and
BoH, I went there and tested them both in duels and on mobs,
did you? And you can hardly compare a setup for 98 or 100 dex
with 108 dex, for 98-100 you can use ppr and moveon, for 108
you cant have one single "bonus" chip.
And no, Im not confusing any terms, when I compare weapons I
compare their actual damage output over time in real situations,
and the results I talk about come from my own personal testing
which is quite extensive, Im not talking out of my ass like you are
now.
Just to make something clear, no where in this thread, nor
anywhere for that matter, am I talking about damage per bullet
or something stupid like that, Im always talking about the real
damage over time factoring in misses and whatnot. With the
current aiming system of course judge should do more damage
per shot, maybe not more than rolh since its 8 TLs over but about
the same, since it misses more.
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