View Full Version : Discussion on Poison damage
This isn't a proposal necessarily its more of me just throwing out an idea to see what people think. So don't flame me haha.
Ok so here is the idea:
Give Protopharma epic chip +15 poison.
Give APUs a rare poison module
Give pistols a rare nail gun
Give rifles a rare poison enabled gun
Make shelter able to resist poison damage
Thoughts?
Hmmm.... maybe except the Shelter thing. I think that the proto chip would be enough. Everyone has to have some weaknesses.
Since lomming some hack and wep lore into psi use so I can run cast I see why APUs say that poison beam is useless against PEs... it really is.
shodanjr_gr
22-01-04, 21:49
Agree on all but the last one....
Shelter defending against poison would make it totally useless.
PPUs would be totally invulnerable to it.
PEs (especially ones that got resistors) would also become very very resistant to it.
Speccing for another damagetype would lower other resists making people easier to kill. Dunno if that's a good or a bad thing.
Shadow Dancer
22-01-04, 22:04
Sorry, but I think only tanks and apus should have access to poison weaponry.
I also think shelter shouldn't resist against poison.
Give Protopharma epic chip +15 poison.
Yes, definately.
Give APUs a rare poison module
Why not? We got
Fire Beam, Fire Apoc, Holy Firestorm
Energy Beam, Holy Lightning, Holy Thunderstorm
Poison Beam, ------------------, Holy Pestilence
Give pistols a rare nail gun.
Yup, poison cannot be ignored, it's about time its needed!
Give rifles a rare poison enabled gun
Sounds good, make it tick off as fast as the devourers poison.
Make shelter able to resist poison damage
And no. As said earlier, anyone ppu buffed would be far too godly, as the ppu himself..
I like. =D
Absolutely Not on all accounts.
Except maybe the Rare Nailgun.
Or just give the old PB dmg back.... before the nerf then I'm happy... "yes you didnt specc for POR thats why it hurt!!!!"
And btw give posion boots and helmet to so tanks and pes cant cry about it when they die "spies does it no matter what :p"
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 22:14
No poison resist to shelter, no poison resist to protopharma. Poison on rifle... naw, not really in fitting.
But make Bloodviper King have a chance to drop "King Venom Spit" : Tl 90 poison lanec for apus.
Make a Mutant Pistolero (basically a 100/100 or 110/110 mutant corporal with uberspeed) that drops TL 90 nailgun. There, ppl can just mod it up with poison if they wish.
Can I ask people to support the things they say instead of just saying them? For my sake if anything else.
Like what is the reasoning for only tanks and APUs to do poison damage? Shodan had a good response to shelter/poison issue but what about the rest do people disagree with?
Psycho Killa
22-01-04, 22:19
If you make shelter resist poisin you will have to up poisin damage.
As it is now with minimal resiists poisin damage sucks ass compared to energy or fire damage AND it lasts 24 seconds.
I disagree with shadow completely on the apu only thing though I think they should have the strongest poisin by far.
Rifles shouldnt get poisin give them another toy that does all xray if u want. Theres nothing wrong with adding a rare nailgun as they have been poisin modded since beta just make it so its in the 80s or low low 90 tl.
I did some tests with shadow that somewhat changed my view on poisin.
As it stand in the current game if you could freeze everyone stats the way they are poisin kicks fucking ass. If everyone smartened up and specced even 50 to 75 poisin resist poisin is a fucking joke.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
No poison resist to shelter, no poison resist to protopharma. Poison on rifle... naw, not really in fitting.
But make Bloodviper King have a chance to drop "King Venom Spit" : Tl 90 poison lanec for apus.
Make a Mutant Pistolero (basically a 100/100 or 110/110 mutant corporal with uberspeed) that drops TL 90 nailgun. There, ppl can just mod it up with poison if they wish.
agreed whole heartedly (sp?)
I agree with everything except making shelter effect it. Every class should be able to do poison damage, it should be a resist people should be made to spec. I know it wouldnt effect me much as i have quite high poison resist as it is. It would add variety to the classes, poison is probably the weakest damage type but because people neglect to spec resists into it does more damage to most people.
Ive always wondered why the PP chip doesnt give poison...isnt a very good resist chip :rolleyes:
the pp chips doesnt need poisn resist theres already a shitload of defences against poisn
I think that as Poison is becoming a more commonly used energy type and protopharm defends against all the others it should defend against Poison too.
Shelter should not protect against poison because it would make PEs and PPUs almost invincible to Poison, so the new rares would be no use whatsoever.
Make new Poison rares because I don't see why other classes shouldn't have poison weapons.
Theres already a shit load of defences against energy but it gives energy resist...Its a resist chip it should give resists in everything.
Originally posted by Nexxy
Theres already a shit load of defences against energy but it gives energy resist...Its a resist chip it should give resists in everything.
poisn was nerfed to fuck
u tell me its effective if somone has speced a lil into poisn resits
my spy has the smallest amount and can outheal it.
it doesnt need poisn reists period.
Psycho Killa
22-01-04, 22:28
Any new poisin rare should only be previously available non rares in my opinion.
Poisin damage blows compared to everything else. Only reason it does so damn much damage now is because people refuse to spec for it. Only the cream of the crop pvpers are now starting to spec poisin. Which its not that hard since it doesnt take much.
Well I actually didn't agree with the shelter thing myself since it would boost PPU/PEs, I just wanted to throw it out there. Right now I can make an awesome spy resist setup almost equal to a PEs except I cant spec for poison, and I think a Gentanks main Con advantage over a PE is the available points to spec for poison. So yah I definitely agree there.
But I definitely don't agree with only Tanks/APUs getting poison damage. It wouldnt necessarily need to be upped if APUs get a rare poison beam (thats an up in itself), but if you give pistol and rifles that did only minimum secondary poison damage like the Dev does, I think it would be good and would balance out the resist setups more.
I believe all weapon types should be able to be modded for any type of damage including poison.
I would also like to see the delay on damage done by poison [the time intervals between poison doing it's damage] reduced to the same length as fire, this would go a long way towards evening out poison as a damage type.
If these changes occur it seems only reasonable that shelter and the pp epic item gain poison effectiveness.
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 22:41
How exactly can raygun and plasma and laser weapons do poison damage?
Its not the posion that hurts with the dev. its the full scale low DoT fire dmg with x10000 stacks :D
Hell if I could stack so many Fire apocs then it would own... now with the 5s stack and high mana/low RoF cost you cant really stack it well in PvP. So its not used by so many APUs the HL does more dmg even if they cap ENR.
But give all POR weapons and one more rare candy to us :D
poison is easy to spec? there's a "shitload of defences against poison"? that's pure crap.
6 out of the 10 hearts have a neg to poison. fix that.
out of all the armours, only 3 belts and 1 (rare) vest protect against poison. fix that.
currently the only realistic way to spec for poison is a filter heart 2, only the most rare imp in the game. fix that.
IMO, poison should be doing shitty damage on anyone with even minimal poison resists until it's possible to more easily spec for it. yes, i have a FH2 and a good few points in there too, but i'm one of the lucky ones that can spare them.
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 22:47
However the answer, i believe in maintaining at least a modicum of belivablity.
It strains credulity that rayguns and fusion weapons and lasers can do poison damage in the game. Perhaps, PERHAPS, plasma weapons can do poison damage if they took in arsenic into the ammo mixture.
Really, leaving poison to projectiles (hey, give poison to those street rifle guns, that should suffice for the rifles) and to psi should more than suffice, and give low-tech a good footing against tech weapons.
Hell, seeing a poison dart drone would rock.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Hell, seeing a poison dart drone would rock. Oh yah forgot about drones. That would be AWESOME. Dang that would be so unbelieveably cool.
Originally posted by s0apy
currently the only realistic way to spec for poison is a filter heart 2, only the most rare imp in the game. fix that.
its rare live with it.... dont make rares common.. just kill leapers and you will find it O_o
Shadow Dancer
22-01-04, 22:51
Originally posted by Jest
Can I ask people to support the things they say instead of just saying them? For my sake if anything else.
Like what is the reasoning for only tanks and APUs to do poison damage? Shodan had a good response to shelter/poison issue but what about the rest do people disagree with?
K let me explain. To me, poison is a special damage type. Not much armor protects against it, and neither does shelter. I like that. I like "unique" damage types. Instead of the vanilla ice/fire/water ice armor/fire armor/water armor all resists equal crap.
I want poison to remain a special damage type. And I think that only combat specialists should have access to it. To me, Apus and Tanks are the combat specialists of NC. Furthermore, I thikn pistols(especially pistols) and rifles would do a bit too much damage for their weapon type, with poison mods. Also, I don't see why every damn class/gun has to have access to all weapon types. Apus don't have x-ray or force beams.
About the shelter. Poison is already technically weaker than other damage types. Secondly, there's always some "negative" to using poison that other damage types don't have. For example, devourer is very(very) close range. That's a big penalty. It doesn't have the penalty apu poison spells have(5 year dot :rolleyes: ), but it's very close range.
Now let's look at apu poison spells. 24 second dot. That's 24 seconds to heal through the damage. THat makes a BIG difference. You ever took 10 hls and lived to run to a ppu and get healed? No? ok then. BUt i'm sure you've been in situations where you had 10 poison stacks, had TIME to run to a ppu and ask for heal/antidote, OR had time to heal through some of the damage AND use drugs. That's another thing, you have drugs to counter it.
ANOTHER penalty apu poison spells have is the stupid ppu countermeasures. For some reason KK felt ppus should be immune to poison.
:rolleyes:
An antidote spell that takes off 6-7 stacks before they truely begin to do damage. Or worse, anti poison sanctum. If that isn't near immunity to apu poison, I don't know what is. Devourere stacks are short, so they rarely suffer from that problem.
Also ppus make pestilence completely useless in op wars IMO.
So those are the negatives of apu poison.
I'm just pointing out that I believe poison is a special damage type, and should stay that way, and why shelter shouldn't protect against it.
I'm sure I missed some stuff, lol.
PP chip should most definitely NOT give poison. Poison is already as weak as it is to someone with minimal poison resist. Now you wanna give more free poison resist? lol
Why should only people who use lowtech items be able to use poison? For that matter why can apus cast lightening bolts or fire or cause poison themselves?
If you want balance as this post seems it was for, allow poison to become a common damage type, not restrict it's use to only a few specific playstyles and beg for an increase because that sure as hell isn't a balanced position. :mad:
For anyone that gives a damn about balance here's how poison can be rationalized on energy weapons: naobots propelled through the energy discharge break down any material they encounter, the strength of the poison is effected by the amount you can propel [in this case rationalized through increased damage = greater amounts of energy delivered = greater poison damage].
Will that satisfy you "reality" people?
if they add more poison weapons they have to add more ways to resits it. Ive got some poison resist and it helps vs poison but its already hurt my hp and other resists. PP resistor adding + 15 poison sounds good to me.... currently poison has the least options to resist, and no, viper king vest is just not an option for tanks and pes, im not gonna lose + 10 pc 22 energy or 51 - 56 energy and +12 - + 16 heavy combat for that dumb viper king vest... just not viable.
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 23:16
nanobot wouldn't survive in energy discarges on the scale of energy weapons.
Originally posted by s0apy
poison is easy to spec? there's a "shitload of defences against poison"? that's pure crap.
6 out of the 10 hearts have a neg to poison. fix that.
out of all the armours, only 3 belts and 1 (rare) vest protect against poison. fix that.
currently the only realistic way to spec for poison is a filter heart 2, only the most rare imp in the game. fix that.
IMO, poison should be doing shitty damage on anyone with even minimal poison resists until it's possible to more easily spec for it. yes, i have a FH2 and a good few points in there too, but i'm one of the lucky ones that can spare them.
u forgot drugs too, i know i carry them around just in case poisn suks if u spec a tiny amount FACT.
And why not if they were specialy designed to? Should be a simple thing to give them some type of refractive properties that nullify the spectrum of the laser energy is in, in a similar respect the armour players wear cannot be adapted to maximum absorbtion of all wavelengths of energy and thus players cannot have the same energy resistance as afforded to these nanobots as laser weapons are each tuned to a specific wavelength... the colour lasers are is actually added just like tracer rounds to standard slug throwing weapons, the actual damaging laser is invisable to the eye.
Excuse me Heavyporker would you be willing to show us your Masters in nanotechnology, physics and engineering now?
If so could I hire you to make working droner interfaces and Particle Nemesis drones for me? I'm sure you have an in depth explaination why psychic powers work also... shall I say you cannot use psi abilities any longer in the game until you provide me with a detailed logical response in exactly how the mind produces and manipulates energy and matter?
Edit: Certainly is convienent that people only say "WTF, that's not realistic" when they want something their own way in Neocron... at the expense of everyone else. If you can believe 99% of the things in Neocron, what's one more leap of the imagination.
Originally posted by =Chojin=
u forgot drugs too, i know i carry them around just in case poisn suks if u spec a tiny amount FACT.
yars, me too. have one in my QB in fact - pop it every time i spot a flamer too. best to be safe.
and @t0tt3, as i said, i have the FH2. but i see no reason why it should be orders of magnitude rarer than any other whole-drop imp in this game. so i'm happy to live with it, since i have one, i just don't see why almost everyone else should do without.
Gotterdammerung
22-01-04, 23:32
oops
Erm... Gotterdammerung we are discussing how poison can be increased in effectiveness and how poison damage types can be available to other weapons... I do not think anyone here is trying to nerf poison. :confused:
make a rare pistol and make it drop similar to the STORM Laser Cannon and Judgment Day Launcher
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 23:37
lesse... nanobots...
in fusion - they'd be either vaporized instantly or absorbed into the fusion reaction...
in plasma -this is 10000-20000 degree -so hot even atoms separate into protons/electrons. nanobots, as molecular assemblies, cannot survive in this, also, the magnetic fields in plasma would be a fucking bitch for nanobots to even operate in, let alone hug for propulsion.
in lasers - its not just wavelength tuning, its also the propulsion of the nanobots. anyway, first about wavelength - if the nanobots were tuned to the laser's wavelength, the laser would be absorbed - simple. and you can't propel nanobots along a laser without diffusing it, hence weakening it if not completely making it useless except as a sparkly flashlight. on another tack, you can't make lasers interact with the air to create a magnetic "path" for the nanobots to ride along - the air would have to absorb the light, making the laser useless (and you'd superheat the air near the barrel, pretty much immolating the weapon, if not also the user.
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 23:43
sorry to make a separate post, but this is on a different tack - it IS more than possible to make actual brain interface implants now, and drones are well on their way, as well.
brain-stem implants trials are being performed ( vision systems for the blind (either using the tongue or vision center of brain hooked up to cameras, with neurons being attached to iridium contacts with low voltages applied) and cochlear implants for the deaf ( microphone implanted into ear nerves in neck ( i don't want to do this because currently the way it is done, it destroys what hearing is present in the ear, so i'm holding out for alternatives before I decide, seeing as I only need hearing aids to hear things atm)
military is doing unmanned air vehicle tests, they're being deployed. Right now, they only use light caliber guns and stinger missles. Energy weapons are bad enough, considering the massive energies involved, lets not even begin with supplying that energy in the first place.
Ok fusion... the fusion reaction causes a heat trail to form behind it, specially designed nanobot packages can follow in this wake by using a sail type of design and activate when they encounter solid mass. Similar idea to plasma weapons.
In lasers... refraction is not absorbtion, this could be used to propel a machine through the idea that reflected/refracted energy produces propulsion as the energy must make a change in direction and thus some of the energy is imparted to the surface that forces this change in direction. The weapon would NOT have to produce a cloud of nanobots so thick it would obscure the entire lenght of the laser pulse, it could simply be added in at a final moment to the tail end of the pulse... similarly to the fusion/plasma weapons weapons. Laser weapons I assume work under the same principles as radiant heaters, the particle density must be sufficently thick to absorb the energy, while SOME energy is lost in transit say to the nanobots and air molecules, the majority of the energy results in the superheating/piercing damage the target player recieves.
You still haven't answered my challenge of posting your degrees in nanotechnology, physics and engineering, let me further question you as if you believe fusion weapons/plasma weapons work this way, under what principles do they work and how come the weapon itself isn't destroyed when it's fired?
Edit: Again you use the reality arguement to only justify yourposition, but turn a blind eye to every other facet in this game as far as 'realism.' Is it any wonder I persist in my logic to counter your arguements?
Er..
ROWR, FFFT, FFFT, HISS :lol:
Peeping Tom
22-01-04, 23:52
i never did understand why PP cpu dident have +15 por.. it just dont make sence +15 enr +15 xrr +15 fir and + 15 frc.. like WTF
K4F
Psychoninja
23-01-04, 00:06
Rare poison spell.
15+ from proto resistor
Stack limit of 9
Boost poison slightly.
Thats what I'd like to see.
;)
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