View Full Version : Saturn economics, what do you think brought the insane inflation
I blame the barter skill.
The whole apc selling trick.
granted it takes a long time but hey, it was this that was able to give a guy with 4 characters 20 million each.
So what now, money is worthless. it wont even buy you low level melee parts.
Some tard was buying Dimension Splitter parts for 10 million a piece the other day. WTF!!!! can you all remember when a DS was 4 mil
o_O
What do you all think screwed the economy over, and what do you think can fix it?
Nerf the barter! That or make APC's and other high cost stuff un researchable.
Whine cry bitch moan all you want, money is in place for a reason, and right now neocron credits are as valuable as a medkit you find off a mob.
Can we all agree that since money no longer provides it intended purpose, something needs to be done?
Jupiter the same, since 5-6 Months.
Reason:
Some guys who used money exploit, and then paying 1 million for 1 unressed part and such things :(
Deanus_willis
22-01-04, 15:27
Been playing for 18 months and i never remember DS going for 4million o_O
Either way, i dont think someone standing in plaza 1 yesterday saying he will pay 7million for a psi core is right. Something is wrong when people have that much to spend on something that isn't THAT rare. What makes people do this. If no one was willing to pay these prices then no one would sell them for such.
MC5 parts should be expensive, they are rare because they are a pain to get and so cost a arm and a leg and thats fine, but when a single chip costs more than 5million your having a laugh...
Dont care what it is.... :mad:
Originally posted by WebShock
So what now, money is worthless. it wont even buy you low level melee parts.
Some tard was buying Dimension Splitter parts for 10 million a piece the other day. WTF!!!! can you all remember when a DS was 4 mil Thats funny, cause low level melee weaps and low level melee parts are REAL easy to buy on Saturn. My bud and I have purchased EVERY part needed to build EVERY rare melee in the game on Saturn with no difficulty, except for one part of the Devils Grace, which took a little searching. But they were all purchased, and for pretty cheap prices. We even purchased a 2 slot artifact vein ripper for 80K. Go figure.
But you are correct, 10 million for DS parts is insane.
HOWEVER
Dont confuse one rich guy's desperation with the status of all of Saturn. 10 mil per part is NOT the going rate for DS parts on Saturn. 98% of the people on Saturn would LAUGH at anyone asking that much for a part.
The problem is simply that there is so much money on the server. Hop into Saturn, and check out the clan funds of the top clans.
When there is a lot of money, people are willing to pay more for something than its worth.
So its not that you cannot get a DS part for less than 10 million... is that someone with a lot of extra money decided they really want DS parts.
Would a barter nerf fix it? Frankly, I am not sure why we even need barter in the game.
Another thing would be to wipe all personal and clan funds over 10 million. But people would pitch a fit about that. :)
4 mill for a DS ?!?!?!?! LoL first time I ever seen a DS in trade it cost 15M +
Cant say its not worth that.. its one of the best chip in NC
4 chars server has allways been more expensive when you can have alts in all classes = U need all items u can get.
I can trade a CS tech for a HL tech if I need to build one but that trade would be inpossible in saturn... "HL tech for a CS tech :p"
Clownst0pper
22-01-04, 15:43
One guy, too much money, wants an item someone else has, he gives him insane amounts, that guy then realises how much he can make, and continues to charge above average, others twig on, and copy the formulae.
Hardly rocket science
ok well im not talking about how easy it is to charge or or more specifically point out the obvious, im talking about what do you think caused this and what you think can fix it.
DS were sold for 4 million the first week they came out, before the world realized what a true pain in the they are to get.
back then, the only people who had that much were clan alliances that merged into a super clan(like new dawn). i assume this is was the clan fund rather than a single persons budget.
Originally posted by WebShock
i assume this is was the clan fund rather than a single persons budget.
Well.. it was a single persons budget. Someone who decided once to become the richest person on the server and made it there, took him several weeks though(*). Now he's giving up all his money for a DS.
I don't see any wrongdoing in this...
(*) It didnt involve any exploit or APC-building to get there btw...
The reason is simply that money is an unlimited resource, and a very easy attainable one, unlike in real life. The total amount of money on the servers only ever gets bigger, thus, prices of things inflate naturally over time.
Nerf the APU's - it's their fault...
o
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Nerf the APU's - it's their fault...
:rolleyes:
ok, a person who devoted a whole month to be the bill gates of neocron deserves to have his money be worth something.
now that everyone is as rich, and only that rich due to a money cap, well it makes money worthless. there is no wrong doing for one of 2 people to be really rich. you are right on with that
we need a solution. i think its been pretty much proven as to why there was inflation. what do you think can help fix this issue without there being some money wipe.
what money sink do you think will help the economy regain itself?
the whole npc selling random rares isnt going to happen because then the rare pool will be in utter disdain and warbot hunting will be compromised.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by t0tt3
I can trade a CS tech for a HL tech if I need to build one but that trade would be inpossible in saturn... "HL tech for a CS tech :p" ugh i do that kind of trading on saturn all the time
didnt say it was loki i was just responding to t0tt3s post saying you cant do such things on saturn
Uranus is a 4 char server, and i "believe" its older than saturn AND jupiter (I may be wrong :p).
Economy is spot on. Just this morning i bought a Marines for 1 mill.
Edit - Trading part for part is NOT the point...
A lot of people seem to be obsessed with getting new players into Saturn. I mean, wtf do they do with nothing to trade? o_O
a n00b cant get a PSI core on saturn for 1.5 mill that he spent a month or 3 earning - He can on other servers.
I remember buying my first 3 slot libby for 90 K back in VERY early retail.
Those were the days :(
Originally posted by L0KI
I remember buying my first 3 slot libby for 90 K back in VERY early retail.
Those were the days :(
This, my friend is the exact point of my entire thread.
Well money isnt worthless. Just the other day Rince was saying that no one ever bought or sold anything on Saturn because it was all just traded. ;)
So money isnt worthless, but there is inflation. Understand though, the inflation is mostly on HIGH end items. And its not like the expensive items are common or anything. DSs are very hard to come by. With the recent nerf in rezz times, even harder still. And at least right now, pre-patch, the DS is often the ONE element that allows a hybrid to be truly functional.
But on all other stuff... there IS trading AND selling that takes place, all at reasonable prices. People DO trade rares, and people DO sell rares and non-rares ALL of the time. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ezza
ugh i do that kind of trading on saturn all the time
didnt say it was loki i was just responding to t0tt3s post saying you cant do such things on saturn
Needed a PSI core badly on pluto thought I lost one. Got all techs under one hour and all for that 800 k or so. I posted for a marine in trades for weeks on saturn offer 250 k or more per part noone wanna sell one tech for me..
Originally posted by WebShock
What do you all think screwed the economy over, and what do you think can fix it?
COMPLETE money wipe with DoY.
This would solve all.
Nobody loses their precious items or rares, but just imagine buying CS parts again for 100k, desperately trying to raise the money for your "drug habit" or ammo.
It would DEFINATELY make the game fun again, as DOY will certainly bring new weapons and items, that we will have to save long and hard to buy ;)
Originally posted by WebShock
This, my friend is the exact point of my entire thread. I seriously hope you dont mean to say that the point of the thread is that a 3 slot libby should sell for 90K again. :rolleyes:
Things were a TAD different in early retail.
Rare drops, for example, have been nerfed to hell and back since early retail. It used to be you would find TONS of rare parts.. a few on every kill that would normally have them. That, plus all of the duping exploits (I am sure old timers remember the rash of artifact 5 slotted libs from EON...) means that a 3 slotted lib was nothing special.
grrrr, odd bug. Quote in one post, my text in another.... o_O
Originally posted by t0tt3
Needed a PSI core badly on pluto thought I lost one. Got all techs under one hour and all for that 800 k or so. I posted for a marine in trades for weeks on saturn offer 250 k or more per part noone wanna sell one tech for me.. Its funny, in my time on Pluto, I have seen people beg and beg for parts, but no one ever seems to be selling. Within a 3 hour period, I saw 3 different players at different time ask "Do people even use the trade channel anymore?" and "Do people still even sell tech parts anymore?"
Yet on Saturn every trade I have wanted to make or every part I have been looking for has been met with a response usually in a matter of second, if not minutes.
Funny how experiences can vary from player to player. :)
Originally posted by L0KI
COMPLETE money wipe with DoY.
This would solve all.
Nobody loses their precious items or rares, but just imagine buying CS parts again for 100k, desperately trying to raise the money for your "drug habit" or ammo.
It would DEFINATELY make the game fun again, as DOY will certainly bring new weapons and items, that we will have to save long and hard to buy ;) Okay, so I take all of my money I have and buy vehicles and apartments... then I can just sell em off, unused, for a loss. Or whatever.
You announce a money wipe before DOY, and I suspect you will see all of the money being spent before DOY. Will that fix the problem? Well, people may not have the liquid assets (money) but they will still have the assets.
As long as the system is the same though, I dont think that will SOLVE the problem. Ammo and drugs you can recycle, so that doesnt cost anything. Anyone can farm cyclopses and sell the level 2 imps to Crytons for decent money. Once people get some money, they go back to fabricating APCs- one batch of 20 APCs nets about 4.3 million (selling back to the ASG) with a barter of about 85 or so. 20 APCs takes some work- but obviously people have no trouble doing that work.
If you think that there is a problem that needs to be solved (beyond just the typical workings of supply and demand) then game processes will have to be changed.
Originally posted by t0tt3
Needed a PSI core badly on pluto thought I lost one. Got all techs under one hour and all for that 800 k or so. I posted for a marine in trades for weeks on saturn offer 250 k or more per part noone wanna sell one tech for me..
you said: I can trade a CS tech for a HL tech if I need to build one but that trade would be inpossible in saturn...
not talking about cash, you can trade part for part.
as for cash, 250k wouldnt buy nothing, be good if it was able.
dont want to start the pluto saturn thing off, but i see people offering stupid amounts of cash for items on pluto, where i can just trade for it on saturn 1 part for 1 part while someone is paying 5 mil on pluto
Originally posted by ezza
dont want to start the pluto saturn thing off
Ahh, but you do...
The fact remains that there are more peeps with too much money on Saturn then Pluto. Combine this together with too many parts floating about, and no-one want's to sell stuff - they just wanna trade. And this isn;t 1 days observation - this is after seeing it for just over 2 months. It was enough to make me move back to Pluto - which I did. I get back, and GUESS WHAT!!!! I start being able to buy things again - fantastic.
Peeps on their own server are always going to be possessive of it - but sometimes facts are facts that cannot be ignored.
a money wipe isnt the answer, its just a stall.
eventually the same will happen, people will pimp the barter skill and the economy will be shit again.
we need a solution.
And yes, i wish you could still get rare techs for 90 k.
To sit there and say there is no economy problem on saturn is plainly ignorant. Not to sound harsh, but how easy can you get a devourer by not hunting? Damn near impossible. Spamming trade, You will not get all the parts in hours. Perhaps a week but not hours. To ignore the fact that there is a problem by simply being in denial is not only a slap to me but a joke to the whole community.
I have all combat characters. I have never had more than 5 million on me. In a server where 5 million gets you a marine or a SS chip, its really useless to even try to have money. That stuff is useless to someone who could care less to do trade skills.
Also KK should remove this guy from TT HQ who buying DoY bot's parts :D Or at least reduce quantity of parts in each bot - My tank from near 24-30 hours of pure hunt got near 7 millions from them 8|
First, Rince, we have hashed this out. Everybody it seems but you has been able to buy stuff on Saturn. If you have yourself as an example of Saturn being ONLY about trade, then I have my whole clan and this thread as an example of being able to purchase stuff on Saturn. You used yourself as an example of how things are purchased on Pluto, and I personally have seen that economic transactions on Pluto take place at a snails pace, and you STILL have people offering 10 million for a single rare part on Pluto (have seen it twice in the little time I have been there). Its a wash, we are both right and wrong, so lets just drop it.
So what is the answer webshock? Money wipe wont do it. And I dont think barter is the problem either.
This is a game about making money. On a high activity server like Saturn, people will make lots of money. Remove barter and it will take longer... but people will still make money.
Edit: Maybe the answer is people should stop thinking that they can sit back and easily just purchase all of the end game material in the game? MOVEON and PP you can EASILY get by doing the epic runs. All of the rest you take your combat character and go out and hunt mobs that drop tech parts.
EVERY item in the game is obtained from a mob (or epic quest) to begin with. That CS you have that you made from rare parts you purchased... SOMEONE had to kill a mob to introduce those parts into the game. So why not you? The more you hunt, the more parts you have to trade and the more money you have to buy stuff. If you think Saturn is only about trading, then you trade parts. If its only about selling, then you sell the parts you have and buy the ones you need.
Having a barter on saturn is not the problem ... Having access to 4 trade skillers is... Easy to spen a few days making Troops and then flogging them. For a 100% (+) profit but the skills needed are Res, Cons and Barter all hi levels (150+)
Money still buys things ... just need a lot more ... The other say Spike was selling a APU Kami for 18mill and a SA for 16 mill ...
Both very rare items but up for sale... The other option is go an do it yourself .. Go get the MC5 parts and spend the months there ... Go find Kami and kill them
Originally posted by ezza
you said: I can trade a CS tech for a HL tech if I need to build one but that trade would be inpossible in saturn...
not talking about cash, you can trade part for part.
as for cash, 250k wouldnt buy nothing, be good if it was able.
dont want to start the pluto saturn thing off, but i see people offering stupid amounts of cash for items on pluto, where i can just trade for it on saturn 1 part for 1 part while someone is paying 5 mil on pluto
Well I can still buy one to.. this is an other post dont mess my to post up. I cant find somone willing to trade a CS tech for a HL tech on Saturn that I would do on Pluto. And also I can and have bought techs for that price which I never had done on Saturn played there in feb 2003 to may 2003 and still couldnt buy it... Trade only, but I couldnt trade I needed all the parts I found "because I had so many chars...."
Thats the point 4 vs 1 :rolleyes:
Originally posted by t0tt3
Well I can still buy one to.. this is an other post dont mess my to post up. I cant find somone willing to trade a CS tech for a HL tech on Saturn that I would do on Pluto. And also I can and have bought techs for that price which I never had done on Saturn played there in feb 2003 to may 2003 and still couldnt buy it... Trade only, but I couldnt trade I needed all the parts I found "because I had so many chars...."
Thats the point 4 vs 1 :rolleyes: thats your choice not to trade the parts, i have 8 chars on saturn, but although my PE needs a ROG, if i can swap a ROG part for a CS part i will, you made th echoice to keep parts for your lesser chars
Ok, someone tell me where the guy that buys doy bot parts is in TT HQ ?
And which parts does he buy?
Originally posted by Strych9
[B]First, Rince, we have hashed this out. Everybody it seems but you has been able to buy stuff on Saturn.
Ahh - but that isn't true now, is it... You seem to forget the other peeps that said the same in the other thread...
Its a wash, we are both right and wrong, so lets just drop it.
FYI, I was talking to Ezza bout this, not u dude - so will be dropped when I feel like it or other peeps stop bringing it up :)
But, you have your views, I have mine - that will never change.
Originally posted by ezza
thats your choice not to trade the parts, i have 8 chars on saturn, but although my PE needs a ROG, if i can swap a ROG part for a CS part i will, you made th echoice to keep parts for your lesser chars
The thing is I really need a better CS so that aint a option but on Pluto I got that option I dont need or cant carry a CS... So why bother about it :rolleyes:
Originally posted by winnoc
Ok, someone tell me where the guy that buys doy bot parts is in TT HQ ?
And which parts does he buy?
secound floor parts that jhonny 5 drops "near DOY city"
I guess the situation will hit all servers. I am on pluto mainly and have been after a couple of rare parts to build a research glove and pain easer.
I could not buy the parts but people would trade for rares they were after. So you can only get the rare part you are after if you have what the other person wants and no amount of money will get you what you want.
Let's hope there are some big changes with the BDOY expansion that puts value back into money.......
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Ahh - but that isn't true now, is it... You seem to forget the other peeps that said the same in the other thread...And then look at the post above this one by Patso, where he says
I guess the situation will hit all servers. I am on pluto mainly and have been after a couple of rare parts to build a research glove and pain easer.
I could not buy the parts but people would trade for rares they were after. So you can only get the rare part you are after if you have what the other person wants and no amount of money will get you what you want.You see, I am saying its the same on both servers. You are saying that its ONLY Saturn that is like that. Based on the evidence, I find no real proof that ONLY Saturn has a problem with having to trade. It seems pretty clear BOTH servers are the same in that aspect.. but perhaps to varying degrees.
But, you have your views, I have mine - that will never change. Of course. :)
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 17:27
shame is that ppl that point very good and real reasons about saturn economy here, are the same that flammes the server economie on another thread without give one reason whatsoever.
now in here we are talking the same language........
To much ppl, to much demand on the same things, those u have it, make a good profit, its like that everywhere, anywhere in game or live
Originally posted by Strych9
It seems pretty clear BOTH servers are the same in that aspect.. but perhaps to varying degrees.Of course. :)
OK - I think that has hit the nail on the head there. It ends now :D
acutally there are some people who sell techs, just rememberd i sold 3 parts of holylightning for 250k each, lol forot about that.
i dont have a barterer doing the dirty work for me so the cash is all good to me :) though techs for what i need are better
Originally posted by Strych9
Edit: Maybe the answer is people should stop thinking that they can sit back and easily just purchase all of the end game material in the game? MOVEON and PP you can EASILY get by doing the epic runs. All of the rest you take your combat character and go out and hunt mobs that drop tech parts.
EVERY item in the game is obtained from a mob (or epic quest) to begin with. That CS you have that you made from rare parts you purchased... SOMEONE had to kill a mob to introduce those parts into the game. So why not you? The more you hunt, the more parts you have to trade and the more money you have to buy stuff. If you think Saturn is only about trading, then you trade parts. If its only about selling, then you sell the parts you have and buy the ones you need.
I agree 100%
get off your ass and go hunting :lol:
heres the thing though, what if you are burned out on hunting, and all you need is one part to that rare item you have been seeking for what seems ages?
yes hunting will get you what you want, but remember, money is in place as another form of the nc barter system. point being that this aspect of the game is broken. just like warbot hunting was broken when they dropped 3-5 techs per wb.
this is an aspect of the game that also needs some love.
seen as im the only 1 with a capped barter on saturn and can safely yes this does give alot of money from pple buying the 10s but then again 10s are getting more and more expensive so the profit is getting less and less. this thread is only gonna get apc nerfed but hey they wouldnt have put barters in the game if u couldnt buy 4 less sell for more. Its not as easy as u think coz u gotta pay the cster and barter aswell aswell as pay 4 the parts but hey it is a 4 char server.
Originally posted by L0KI
COMPLETE money wipe with DoY.
This would solve all.
A money wipe wouldn't work........
Things would be back to "normal" in no time........
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 23:30
Fuck money wipe.
Just put in a plenthora of money sinks.
Trust me, Pluto situation is more or less quite fine. i'm more than willing to buy/trade/sell techparts at quite reasonable prices, and more importantly, others are.
Just that not everyone inclined to be reasonable about techparts are on 24/7 . And methinks you forget that not everyone that's on has the techpart you need.
I think 'taxes' would be interesting, and it would obviously be a cash sink.
Apps should cost X amount for upkeep per week, etc.
Anyway, the problem isn't the research/cons/barter deal... it's the fact that pretty much everything we do makes obscene amounts of money for us, yet once we have everything we need, we're still those gaining obscene amounts of money.
Heavyporker
22-01-04, 23:45
Hmm.. make ops cost cash for upkeep, but if op is heavily used by runners, you can still make profit off it so an incentive for clans to open OPs to runners)
apt tax, fuck no.
more cashsinks, thats all. I got more ideas coming, will post later.
IMO the main reason we are seeing such inflation is because of the decrease in rare drops, back when rare parts and implants were more plentiful you could purchase parts for 50-100k. Now as time draws on we are seeing "Supply and Demand" kick in. Basically there are not enough rares being found to supplement how much is needed for the general population. So in turn its raising prices. Sure it wasn't noticeable when they first introduced the patch that did this but now 4-5 months later we are seeing the effects of a bad decision.
Combine that with the fact that more rares have been introduced over time into the rare pool and its making it harder to find the parts you need. I think the easiest way to stop this would be to put the rare drops back to normal and over time the inflation will go away. I'm not saying we can expect it to go away in a months time but in 2-3 months the economy could be returned to normal.
I blame it on the trend that continues. People that magically have over 20 mil and pay 1-4 mil per regular tech part and still day in and day out do this over and over.
Totally off topic of the thread, but every time I'm scrolling through the topic list my mind sees a title of "Satan economics" to this thread and I'm constantly doing a double take.....
I think they should add TAXES, yeeeeeehaw, no more inflation? :confused:
I've been thinking about this a fair bit lately and I've decided that I actually like Saturn as it is now.
Players actually control the economy at the moment.
Players always control the economy.
;)
The question is, is it reasonable?
I dunno, I don't play on saturn =P
its easy really 4 char servers easily allow clans to combine
Constructors
Barters
Researchers
someone could even have these money makers and 1 combat charecter!
"reasonable" is a matter of opinion and perspective.
The way I see it is :
The main complaint now is that the current economy has a large wealth gap.
There should be a large wealth gap exactly as there is all true real world market economies.
Unlike the real world though in Neocron anyone can join the elite if they so choose.
Hence, I like it as it is.
trigger hurt
23-01-04, 02:54
my question is why do all of you pluto folks give a flying fuck how much we pay for shit on saturn?
is it hurting you? is it ruinging your 'pure rp, bestest at pvp' server?
If you want to move to saturn, do like the rest of us did and hunt to get our money. Make a constructor (it's a 4 slot server) and a researcher and a barter and *poof* tons of money for you.
Our money isnt worthless. It just takes a lot more of it to buy top-shelf items. Yesterday, I sold a 3 slot Ray of God for 2.5 million. That was the lowest bid. The guy really needed it and most of the other people bidding for it already had a 1 or 2 slot. So, I sold it to the person who was friendly to my faction and really needed it.
Was it worth 2.5 mil? Not in my opinion, since it took me about 20 hours total to build 3 of them at once, but someone offered to pay that much. I'm obviously going to take the offer.
If you folks are so distasted about how much shit costs on saturn, do us a favor. Stop logging on to our favorite server and log on to the other one. Then, when you are bored to death because noone is there, you can come back to saturn and accept it as the way things are.
Q`alooaith
23-01-04, 03:01
Little OT but..
I gave away an APU kami on saturn..
Ok, back to topic... money and item whipe, no one likes the idea but it'd sure be a step toward's a fix.. like when a broken bone is let to set badly, you have to break it again to get it set right..
So a whipe, then removal of vehical consting, maybe only high level end, or make them unsellible back to shops, unsellible is better.. Mean's you can flood the place with 200 APC key's, but they are worth only somthing to another player..
Same with apt's, no sell back and same with a great many thing's, maybe remove all shop's "buy" option except yo's, give a reason for all of them..
If it ain't broken don't fix it.
I do think vehicles should be unsellable though because it is a bit too easy atm.
There are plenty of other ways to get cash and that one is kinda lame.
Q`alooaith
23-01-04, 03:07
Originally posted by jernau
If it ain't broken don't fix it.
I do think vehicles should be unsellable though because it is a bit too easy atm.
There are plenty of other ways to get cash and that one is kinda lame.
I won't argure over if the money problem's are real or not, they are real and in need of a good fixxing.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I won't argure over if the money problem's are real or not, they are real and in need of a good fixxing.
We'll have to agree to disagree then :)
I can't see a problem as long as anyone can make money so easily.
Before anyone says they can't - I recently tested this :
Using a high level char with startup cash of 100k I got to cash-cap in 11 days. That's one character, no APCs, just hunting and trading. I played him about 2 hours a day to get there.
If people can't be bothered I fail to see why they should be helped.
Q`alooaith
23-01-04, 03:30
ahh but the getting to capped so fast is the problem.. Even if everyone can get there, what's 2 mill to somone with 19 mill, I'll tell you what it is, it's a loss of 1 mill due to the cap killing your 21 mill down to 18 again..
So with capped cash, you've got the same game as none capped, but no one will trade for cash, since everyone's got capped cash, so don't want to spend..
Stagnation..
So, rather than leave a broken system in place, change it so getting more cash = harder.. people who want to cap cash can do so, but it'd take more time..
the no resale work's realy well whatever happen's, make yo's the only NPC buyer.... Keep's inflow lower..
there are load's of way's of making money worth somthing, and at the same time making the aculmilation of said fund's harder..
Well - there's levels of cap :
18-20 mil in cash
25-30 mil in StockX
unlimited in clans
Then there's the fact that it's a 4-char server.
I'd be very surprised if there aren't a fair few players with access to well over 100mil.
As I see it the cash creation/inflow is fine. What we need is more ways to spend that money. Add more expensive items to give people a reason to be rich rather than nerf them for it.
Like I say though - stop APC selling. It's lame and unnecessary.
Methinks that alot of this financial 'stuff' will change as more players come into the game.
Sorry, that was the next line in my textbook -o- replies.
I think its the high server pop mostly, because there are alot of big clans who like to camp certain places not allowing other various people get certain things, MC5 being a real good example, people have chars there with minus infinity soulight who are logged at MC5 for one purpose...to pk anyone who comes in there, and since its a hunting zone, people lose SL....
Also there are really good places where there are insane spawn rates like gaya, and I_10.....those places are heavily gaurded big bigger clans as well.....leaving the unclanned people with less hunting spots and lower chances to get rares.....
also being that there is high population & 4 server server means more chars means more rares needed....it is not uncommon to not see many auctions for things like psi-cores, and even less auctions for SF cpus......
as far as parts costing 1 mil a peice, I have to admit its kind of a follow the leader type thing.......I remember when I got my first ravager part.....before I even knew what they went for I said I was gonna sell it....someone offered 1 mil right away, and the next time I got another part I listed it for sale....I knew last one went for a mil, so in my mind Im not gonna sell the other one for any less......its just how it goes......
Originally posted by Yinyin
The reason is simply that money is an unlimited resource, and a very easy attainable one, unlike in real life. The total amount of money on the servers only ever gets bigger, thus, prices of things inflate naturally over time.
I think this might be a part of the problem.
When you work for someone in real life, you spend your time and effort in order to increase the amount of money you have, and your employer spends their money in order to buy your time and effort. So you've gained money, they've spent money. In Neocron however, when you do the equivalent of work (eg. killing mobs), you spend your time and effort, you gain money, but nobody spends money in order to buy that time and effort. The money just magically appears, created by Cityadmin and put into your account. However, this does not mean that actual wealth was created (if it was then why wouldn't Cityadmin just create huge amounts of money for everyone and they could all be wealthy?). This is seen by the current inflation on Saturn - because money is becoming more and more plentiful and is basically coming out of nowhere.
It is somewhat like if, say the government of a country decides to simply print more money. It does not make the country richer, it only causes each unit of that currency to be worth less than it was before (ie. inflation).
In runner-to-runner trades money is becoming less and less valuable. This is because runners follow the laws of supply and demand - when cash is in high supply and low demand, you need to spend more of it to buy something you want, and of course you can expect to receive more when you sell something to someone. You will notice however, that NPC traders do not follow the laws of supply and demand. Even if the currency is worth less due to inflation, they still charge the same prices as ever.
So basically, runners get more and more money through the passage of time, and the money isn't coming from real people, it's just being made. This means that the total amount of NC in the economy is always on the increase, therefore you're going to need to spend more to purchase things from other runners, because it is no easier than it was previously in order to produce the items that the money can buy.
The reason why the inflation on Saturn is worse than the other servers is because of the larger population, which means more cash is being "made" at a faster rate, and also it is easier to "make" money using the 4 character slots by the APC trick for example (an alternative to killing mobs for cash). The inflation effect is in fact happening on all servers, but the effect on Saturn is more accelerated.
So, I believe I've found the cause. However, I am not sure of a solution at this point.
Psycho Killa
23-01-04, 08:35
The solution is to nerf the ability to sell keys to vendors for high prices. But at the same time...Make it easier for tradeskillers to get rich of of OTHER PEOPLE not the npc vendors.
Tradeskillers should be the richest I truely beleive that but not from money that comes from thin air. It should be through money obtained through other players through killing mobs. This will keep inflation down since the only income ability will be used for cash and will be slowly depleted through use of genreps and inventory recovieries along with the purchasing of supplies.
1) Increase the benefit of barterers buying items. (People will save money but it will be the money they earned through trading or killing monsters not out of thin air.
2) Decrease there power in selling items. (Keep money from appearing out of nowhere.
3) Nerf the crap out of expensive constructable items such as vehicles.
4) Make it so it is easier to obtain cash from other players (Drasticaly lower the cost of lube especialy so for barterers.) I honestly cant think of to many ways to increase revenue through other players but hopefully npc vendors will help this out alot.
The thing is, killing mobs is still money coming out of thin air. You're doing a job but the money to pay you for it is coming out of nowhere. So even without APCs, there will still be inflation (at a lower rate). Also the money you put into genreps etc is not going anywhere, it simply disappears. I don't think it will balance out, servers will always end up with an increasing total sum of money in the economy, which means inflation will occur.
In response to number 4... lowering inflation should help to solve that problem by itself, as tradeskillers should be more willing to work for cash (eg. I used to poke people to get cash but I don't bother these days because unless people offer a LOT of cash, I might aswell just sell a rare part instead). There may also be some value to the "make more cash sinks" ideas, as to add new (useful/interesting) items to the game would undoubtedly mean more trade between players. Observe how many trades have been made since the introduction of the devourer and ravager, for instance.
Originally posted by TheEnemy
Observe how many trades have been made since the introduction of the devourer and ravager, for instance.
Yea I see that. Am I the only one who thinks that trading 1-2 million for 1 tech part is just fuckin ludicrous?
I refuse to pay that much. I will pay 1-2 million for a multislotted rare. Hell I am reluctant to pay that much for the whole rare. You all see how much a no slotted devourer sells for?
I seen em go for 600 k. WTF... why does a 2-3 slot rare have to go from 600 k to... 5 million. thats bullshit.
I dont know what most of you people who say you can buy stuff on saturn are coming from. You _CANNOT_ buy mc5 parts on saturn period.
Mutli slotted rares are seldom sold and if they are they are sold for a asenine amount of money.
It's amazing how you all fail to see the huge problem here.
One last thing, the discussion is about saturn, not pluto. If its such a perfect world over there then good for you. I'll take my ruined economy over what happens in pluto. Im referring to people talking ooc in trade and the elitist atittude that oozes from that server.
Original monk
23-01-04, 09:56
Originally posted by WebShock
You _CANNOT_ buy mc5 parts on saturn period.
sure ya can, if you have the money i have the stuf :)
ok let me guess, you are selling rigger dream and hawkings parts for.... 5 mil a tech part?
you selling the hot parts? ds sa herc?
be real.
while there is the odd occasion that someone does sell these parts, its usually so expensive that if you dont have a tradeskiller you might as well hang it up. I dont have a cst or a barter to pimp for money :/
i have no problem with saturn, if you dont like play on pluto or uranus.
if i cant afford to buy something, which i usually cant, il go hunt for it.
Originally posted by WebShock
Yea I see that. Am I the only one who thinks that trading 1-2 million for 1 tech part is just fuckin ludicrous?
Of course it is. Next time please read my entire post before you respond with a bunch of gibberish.
thats a real ignorant comment stig, you must be on a roll today.
Let me get the jest of your "advice"
Leave the server where i have my 3 capped characters since the economy is fucked and its to your liking. Go play on a server where the elitists roam or the other where the data base crashes almost as much as there are patches.
This is one situation where you cant "put up or shut up".
Point of this thread is, yea you can go hunting for stuff, but what about the alternate route of acquiring things you need. What, it's broken but it's to your liking so we should all just turn our heads.
You know the same mentality was applied during several other events (I.E Ethnic cleansing) but since this is neocron and not politics let me get back on topic.
Point is, money is in game for a reason. If it serves a purpose, that purpose is really out of the reach for a lot of players. How is a noob going to come in game and have to spend ALL his money that he has acquired in his month of playing on one tech part? its stupid. It needs to be addressed.
I'm not leaving my home and friends because YOU think the economy is fine, i bet you think that way because you and your tangerine buddies have all the money and resources you need. Not everyone has that luxury.
Originally posted by TheEnemy
Of course it is. Next time please read my entire post before you respond with a bunch of gibberish.
That post was in no way meant as a flame Enemy :/
It's just that I'm getting the feeling that no one see's the economy in dire need of repair. It's in shambles imo.
The already capped uberfyed runners have access to everything making them the elite class while the no0b or the underdog runner is screwed. In my opinion, these resources should be available to all.
Originally posted by WebShock
thats a real ignorant comment stig, you must be on a roll today.
Let me get the jest of your "advice"
Leave the server where i have my 3 capped characters since the economy is fucked and its to your liking. Go play on a server where the elitists roam or the other where the data base crashes almost as much as there are patches.
This is one situation where you cant "put up or shut up".
Point of this thread is, yea you can go hunting for stuff, but what about the alternate route of acquiring things you need. What, it's broken but it's to your liking so we should all just turn our heads.
You know the same mentality was applied during several other events (I.E Ethnic cleansing) but since this is neocron and not politics let me get back on topic.
Point is, money is in game for a reason. If it serves a purpose, that purpose is really out of the reach for a lot of players. How is a noob going to come in game and have to spend ALL his money that he has acquired in his month of playing on one tech part? its stupid. It needs to be addressed.
I'm not leaving my home and friends because YOU think the economy is fine, i bet you think that way because you and your tangerine buddies have all the money and resources you need. Not everyone has that luxury.
That post was in no way meant as a flame Enemy :/
It's just that I'm getting the feeling that no one see's the economy in dire need of repair. It's in shambles imo.
The already capped uberfyed runners have access to everything making them the elite class while the no0b or the underdog runner is screwed. In my opinion, these resources should be available to all.
When a noob comes into this game they dont power level a char in a week, they dont need that rare wep immmediately
and the chances are they wont be high enough level for at least a month or so, so in that time regardlessof what class they are they will have started to collect tech parts.
its all part of the levelling/collecting curve.
If you want to take the quick way to cap a char then dont complain when u cant afford to get him his stuff.
I started a rifle spy on tuesday, im about 50 dex with shop bought imps and i have already got 20 tech parts on a 24/29 char.
i realise it is a little bit easier on a rifle char, but by rank 20/ using an apu u get parts, using a tnak u can get parts easily only a pe may struggle at that rank.
i bet you think that way because you and your tangerine buddies have all the money and resources you need. Not everyone has that luxury.
well as far as "me and my tangerine buddies" are concerned most of were skinted after paying 300k per char to transfer to FA
for my chars alone that was 1.8mill i also paid for 6 other chars for mates, so until the last week i had a total of about 1 mill spanning 8 chars, which lets be honest is fuck all.
in the clan account we have 30k i believe
so by no means are we rich, but maybe that because i dont sell things, i trade or hunt for them myself.
>what do you think brought the insane inflation
The multichar slot on the servers - They make everyone independent of everything and money is not worth anything since anyone can make their own barterer/constructor/researcher and make loads of cash easy. I get paid more on pluto than i ever was on Saturn.
I'm still able to make a rough million on pluto every day though..
how many people on saturn actually have a resser, conster and a barter ?
not many tbh
i have 2 accounts and i have no barter, and no resser
many people have combat chars, tank, monk, pe, spy.
Originally posted by WebShock
That post was in no way meant as a flame Enemy :/
It's just that I'm getting the feeling that no one see's the economy in dire need of repair. It's in shambles imo.
The already capped uberfyed runners have access to everything making them the elite class while the no0b or the underdog runner is screwed. In my opinion, these resources should be available to all. [/B]
Oh, sorry :p But I did get the feeling you had ignored my post or something, since you said nobody realizes that the inflation is bad, yet I stated that it is.
Newbie runners are disadvantaged because few people will bother to sell low level weapons and implants now since there is too little profit incentive. It is also harder to find tradeskillers, you have to rely on other poor runners, or people doing it for charity. On the other hand, don't forget that they will receive more donations because people can afford to throw money at them. A clever newbie could earn quite a lot of cash. When I migrated to Saturn I earned my first million pretty quickly thru buying low and selling high. Of course, it's still preferable to have a non-inflated economy.
thanks for your insight stig
Stig is right.
People are lazy or don't take good advice. That's their own look out.
@Original - Contact me in-game sometime mate ;).
As I said earlier... the problem on Saturn is that people think they are entitled to sit back and simply buy all of the end-game equipment that others had to work hard to build.
If everyone that wanted a MOVEON or PP simply paid the 300K to switch factions and do the epic... and if everyone that wanted a rare just spent a bunch of time getting tech parts and then trading for it... I dont think you would see as many people complain.
Rares should be rare. MC5 rares even rarer still. Just because you can powerlevel a char in a week to being capped, that doesnt mean you should be able to obtain a rare gun or chip with the same minimal effort.
Do the time. Put it the work. Get parts. Trade parts. Its what the economy is all about.
Barter doesnt need help. The attitudes need help. Its like people see tech parts selling for 200-500K, and they would rather complain about the prices instead of spending a few hours hunting WBs and then suddenly being an active participant in the economy.
Now on the APCs- I wouldnt mind seeing them not be able to be sold back to the vendors.
Originally posted by WebShock
thanks for your insight stig
eh ? being sarcastic ?
the 20 parts i have got so far leveling my nib spy will allow me to trade for the parts i would need to SF/SS and PE. taking in mind i have to get a further 50 levels before i cap thats about 25-30 before i can use the rares how many more tech parts will i get in this time?
for anyone such as myself i wont have to do this, but if needed i could.
when rizzy was banned, me and the peoplein the tech part pool where left with nothing, no parts to trade.
so we started again, and between us we have built up a collection AGAIN.
many people in this game are to lazy, and lazy people are being exploited by the people charging 5mill for mc5 part.
Stop being lazy and your problem is solved.
Originally posted by stigmata
eh ? being sarcastic ?:
LOL HAHAHAHA
wow its amazing how people on this forum get flamed so much that a simple thanks seems like a vicious undercover flame or sarcasm. no man, just a thanks for showing me what you saw from your point of view. its called civilized conversation. :lol:
Stop being lazy and your problem is solved.
its not about being lazy, its about a part of the game that is not functioning the way it was intended. In my opinion, KK didnt make this game so that things would be so damn expensive. Want an example... How many people do you see selling psi booster 3's these days? I haven't seen this sale in months. Why? It's not profitable anymore. No one can make a quick million. Low end resources like noob guns arent available for sale easily anymore. a 4-5 slot anything spell will cost you more than what you think. How many droppable imps have you seen for sale lately? little to none. Point being, yes you can get off your ass and hunt these things down. If thats the way neocron wants you to acquire things, then what is the point of money? in that case pay me in psi boosters ammo and medkits, as this is all that i can buy with my measly 3 million these days.
Originally posted by Strych9
As I said earlier... the problem on Saturn is that people think they are entitled to sit back and simply buy all of the end-game equipment that others had to work hard to build.
If everyone that wanted a MOVEON or PP simply paid the 300K to switch factions and do the epic...
what if you are tt and you have -100 bio for roleplaying a sworn biotech runner? o_O
its not as easy as you say dude. its a little more than just slapping 300 k on the table of the bio hq. you have to be able to get in bio in the first place. to regain from such a deep hole, it would take you a very long time doing missions.
you guys are really looking at this with tunnel vision. What seems like a easy thing to you, is just a pain in the ass for another. remember that everyone has a diffrent situation.
If there is an alternative toacquiring things with other than money, get rid of it entirely.
think of the noob influx we are about to get. what kinda noob thats spent say, 4 months acquiring his nc is going to want to piss it away on that last tech part he needs and cant seem to get since the rare pool if full of garbage rares parts like slot enhancer v0.9
right now, when im on trade, someone will say want to sell or trade but when you offer them a decent price, the usual reply i get is..... sorry man im really looking to trade over nc, nc is worthless right now and i got plenty of it.
thats bs. nc is in place for something other than just buying drugs ammo and medkits. if you fail to see that then you have tunnel vision.
If you want a reward for loyalty to a faction - be loyal to them or pay whatever the black-market asks for it's wares.
I have bought just about every item in game for nc at some point in the last few months. That includes MC5s (parts and whole), new rares, 4 and 5 slot weapons and Kamis. You just need to know the right people to ask and then negotiate.
I still can't see anything seriously wrong with the economy as it stands. It's not tunnel vision. As I said earlier - I have tested all this recently and had no problems getting hold of everything I want. I've also seen others do it, so it's not luck or magic, it's just work. Don't want to work? Don't expect to be paid.
arent you a plutonian?
were these transactions on saturn?
you are looking straight through what i said. low level stuff is not available either. of course its tunnel vision, you have everything you need and want. you dont have a noob.
your capped guys all have money and can support your low level char should you choose to re roll. i dont see your point as being valid sorry.
btw was that apu kami was bought in saturn i would find it seriously hard to believe as people were wanting a DS for a kami. the excuse was that you cant acquire a kami as the mobs are no longer in game. with a ds you can still get a replacement through hunting.
saturn economy is fucked and i've yet to see someone show me diffrent. its uber hard for a noob noob to acquire anything with money..
ill reiterate. money is worthless right now unless you are a multimillionaire
Saturn born and bred.
Low level stuff isn't a problem at all. I sell L1 and L2 imps for a few K each and I build non-rares for tips regardless of quality or TL. I can find plenty of traders who work the same way if I don't want to log mine on.
If you actually read what I wrote you'd see that I have actually tested this recently all the way from noob-cash to cash-cap with absolutely no support from my other characters. It was easier now than at any other time in the history of the game. A few nights (6-8 hours play time) hunting gets you enough parts and imps to make 10mil+ if you get a bit lucky on the drops. If not do another few hours, laziness won't earn you jack shit.
Yes - I bought an APU Kami for cash.
jernau, then guess what? you hit the lotto.
you finished those trades out in pure luck. i would like to see something more definitive and concrete for the next guy who doesnt have in game connections or isnt in the right place at the right time.
do you at least see this point?
Originally posted by WebShock
jernau, then guess what? you hit the lotto.
you finished those trades out in pure luck. i would like to see something more definitive and concrete for the next guy who doesnt have in game connections or isnt in the right place at the right time.
do you at least see this point?
I conceed that in-game contacts are a big help if you have/use them and that luck can be an element.
OTOH - I took no advantage from people I know in-game for the test (which I carried out because I thought the economy was broken). I didn't tell anyone who I was though I did of course know who to DM for reliable RES, CST, etc. but a noob can always ask around for that info. Many of the people on here complaining are certainly not noobs with no connections in-game.
Seriously - If anyone doubts me - go try it then come back and tell me it's impossible. It is 10x easier to make money now from hunting/trading than it was a year ago. People don't care about paying 1 mil for a lot of rare parts now that a year ago you'd have got 50k for.
ok then, ill try it then ressurect this thread.
Originally posted by WebShock
what if you are tt and you have -100 bio for roleplaying a sworn biotech runner? o_O
its not as easy as you say dude. its a little more than just slapping 300 k on the table of the bio hq. you have to be able to get in bio in the first place. to regain from such a deep hole, it would take you a very long time doing missions.Better question for you- if you are roleplaying a sworn TT runner, and have -100 biotech, why would you want to have in your head a special biotech epic chip????
:)
Seriously, if your RP is the reason you can get it normally, then stick by your choices and dont use it.
But otherwise, my point still stands. You say that it would take a long time to do those missions. Well what would take longer for you- getting Biotech FS from -100 to 50, paying 300K, then doing the epic runs... or mobbing, getting tech parts, and selling them to earn the 2mil it takes to buy a MOVEON????
No once said the choices in the game all had to be easy. I chose to be city-allied, and as such I will never be able to easily take advantage of the glorious easy experience that is called The Chaos Caves. Oh well.
[B}you guys are really looking at this with tunnel vision. What seems like a easy thing to you, is just a pain in the ass for another. remember that everyone has a diffrent situation.[/B]With all due respect, and there is due respect.... you have the same affliction you claim everyone else has.
You say yourself that everyone has a different situation- yet you seem to indicate that what everyone else says about the saturn economy is wrong somehow.
My experiences, and the experiences of others in this thread, on Saturn seem to be drastically different from yours. And even if you put aside the diff experiences with the trade channel and trade forums... the point still remains:
If everyone simply went out and got their own tech parts, everyone could participate in the trading and/or selling of tech parts, and get what they want. The only people that have trouble are those that expect to be able to buy everything they need for a cheap price.
The mere fact that you personally find obtaining a MOVEON via the epic run to be far too daunting of a task PROVES that people are justified in charging a lot of money for one, doesn't it? If I knew you had -100 BT FS, and you wanted a MOVEON... I think I could justify charging you even more.
Supply and demand.... supply and demand.
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 20:45
so strych how much do u think a MOVEON should worth ?????
500k ?
for fuck sake
in saturn u can either buy or trade prety easy, and in this thread only u and some other thickheads cant see that....
MONEY - once again im goin to say this, ITS FUCKING EASY TO MAKE MONEY IF U PUT SOME EFORT INTO.
TECHS - like i said, I DO 50 COUNT EVERYDAY, YES I HUNT 50 TECHS EVERYDAY IN 2,3 HOURS, EASY.............and like me many others, thats why we call it 50 count.
MC5 - belive it or not untill last week i was to lazy to try and have one kuz MC5 is boring, but ive caped my monk a few weeks ago so i decided that it was time, AND WITHOUT ANY TRADE in ONE WEEK i got already 4 parts to a DS and 3 to a SA.....
what u r saying is that u prefer to lazy out then hunting them................
things sometimes are expensive kuz ppl dont mind to pay much for them, when they want someting really bad, kuz 2 mil, is one day work, withouty the APC thingy..................
im sorry if in ur planet things arent like that, but in mine it is.
NOOBS - so easy to cap a player and get him all the good stuff for cheap, without any inside connections.............once again ur a lazy.
in another thread one n00b said " in 3 weeks i got all that i need.....stop whining and go play" and thats a true n00b not a n00b char, i mean n00b into a game.....
give up
u have no reason and no proff on this
Originally posted by Devils Grace
so strych how much do u think a MOVEON should worth ?????
500k ?
for fuck sake
in saturn u can either buy or trade prety easy, and in this thread only u and some other thickheads cant see that....LOL. Maybe you need to work on some reading comprehension DG.
*I* am the one saying its easy to buy and trade stuff.
*I* am the one saying that moveons are easy to get.
LOL.
This post of yours was like someone trying to convince Vett that the LE is a bad thing.
You got your sides mixed up. :p
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 20:55
ROFL LMAO LOLZZZ
we are agreeing so much latelly that its scary:eek:
and i want so much to disagree with u that i mixed the namezzz lol
anyways he knows to who my reply was intended to
i think that thread was supposed to be towards me. lol
no matters i dont acknowledge threads with so much uneeded anger.
basically you all say that you are ok with paying 1 million for a tech part. and if you dont want to pay that much you are lazy
:rolleyes: o_O
ok thats your opinion. i see it diffrently.
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 21:01
Originally posted by WebShock
i think that thread was supposed to be towards me. lol
no matters i dont acknowledge threads with so much uneeded anger.
basically you all say that you are ok with paying 1 million for a tech part. and if you dont want to pay that much you are lazy
:rolleyes: o_O
ok thats your opinion. i see it diffrently.
anyone that knows me knows i do all with hearth and passion
(u shoud hear me in Teamspeak when im fighting the mercs loz)
and now i got u where i want, and u wana know why ?
yes if u dont want to pay 1 mil for a part, u are lazy kuz:
1- u dont have the money, kuz u didnt bother to make ur self rich
2- u dont really need it.
3- u need it but ur still a lazy kuz u are those in option 1 and so u dont go out and try to hunt it
LAZYYYYYYYYY BASTARD
at the end everyone has what u want except u
Originally posted by WebShock
basically you all say that you are ok with paying 1 million for a tech part. and if you dont want to pay that much you are lazy
:rolleyes: o_O
ok thats your opinion. i see it diffrently. To clarify my opinion:
If you spend the time to get your own tech parts and sell/trade them, then no- 1 million for a tech part isnt any big deal at all.
If you sit back, dont try to earn money, and dont try to get tech parts... then yes I can see how paying 1 million could be stressful for a tech part.
You are supposed to get and trade tech parts I think. Those that do that have little trouble getting what they need.
And as long as the economy functions that way, those that choose to not participate will always have trouble getting what they need for cheap- even after a money wipe or barter nerf or apc nerf.
Originally posted by Devils Grace
LAZYYYYYYYYY BASTARD
and blah blah blah other OT useless to this thread nonsense....
dude wtf are you talkin about
<slap>
maybe now you will see that this is a discussion, and btw, i do have everything i need. you have no idea who i am in saturn. am i lazy bastard? no, whats funny is that i fight beside your clan on a daily basis but since you have no idea who i am you choose to be this hostile with me. its cool, u just made a ass outta yourself in that thread so ill leave it at that.
lets get back on focus.
if everything in neocron is supposed to be bartered in the millions, why are store bought things on the average no more than 35-55 k?
look at the the npc's, money exchanges arent meant at the rates that they are going for now.
your opinions and flames really dont even relate to what this topic is about, moreover i refuse to let you sink this thread in flames like every other decently discussed thread on this board.
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 21:08
Originally posted by Strych9
To clarify my opinion:
If you spend the time to get your own tech parts and sell/trade them, then no- 1 million for a tech part isnt any big deal at all.
If you sit back, dont try to earn money, and dont try to get tech parts... then yes I can see how paying 1 million could be stressful for a tech part.
You are supposed to get and trade tech parts I think. Those that do that have little trouble getting what they need.
And as long as the economy functions that way, those that choose to not participate will always have trouble getting what they need for cheap- even after a money wipe or barter nerf or apc nerf.
ARGGGGGGHHH
AMEN:lol: :angel:
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 21:12
if u fight besides me then u know me then u know im agressive (not hostile) to everyone that has a diferent opinion then mine.
i got another quality that when i know im worng, i just shut....
or when ppl make me see im wrong........
u didnt acomplish none of those......
why do you 2 keep focusing on rare stuff?
what about the mid level guy who cant buy psi boosters from live players or the tank that needs 100 medkits sold at less price than the drug store sells them for?
you dont see these sales anymore because they arent profitable in the millions.
what about the non rares like spells and mid level guns. there was a point in time that constructors would make these in bulk then put them up for sale to the public. you dont see this at all anymore. why?
because it isnt profitable enough.
its not laziness, its greed.
Originally posted by Devils Grace
if u fight besides me then u know me then u know im agressive (not hostile) to everyone that has a diferent opinion then mine.
i got another quality that when i know im worng, i just shut....
or when ppl make me see im wrong........
u didnt acomplish none of those......
maybe because im not here to fight with you or prove you wrong, its not a debate its a discussion. i could care less if you dont agree, i was looking for your point of view.
Originally posted by WebShock
if everything in neocron is supposed to be bartered in the millions, why are store bought things on the average no more than 35-55 k?LOL. Wow, a few tech parts (not all, just a few) CAN go for a million, and now you are making statements that "everything in neocron" goes for that much?
Come on, drop the hyperbole.
The very few most desireable rares go for that much. You DO realize that before, when the level 3 drops were nerfed, that a zerk 1 sold for over a million arent ya? That sucked, but you know what? Since the supply dropped, no one blinked an eye at paying that much. Why? Cause they couldnt get one for themself. Supply went back up, and now Zerk 3s are nothing special.
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 21:20
u can get those bulk jobs easy al u have to do is ask......
psi boosters ??? med packs,,,,???? nowdayseveryone either clone them themselves or buy them from the store, they arent that expensive.............
anyways u got my opinion
and now im goin home to eat, spend some quality time with my kid, and then playyy neocrack...
ill take a peek later in the forums, kuz i usually only go to them at work
yea i agree about when the imps quit dropping they skyrocketed. and yes i do see what the whole supply and demand thing is about.
thats the obvious answer.
but i didnt say everything should be bartered in the millions, if you relook at what i said, i stated that ifthings are to be bartered in the millions, why are things still sold for under 100k.
you totally overlook my other point about boosters medkits and things that are sold for far less if they are cloned.
money has a purpose and i firmly believe that it isnt supposed to be transacted in the millions.
sure you can get crap melee rare parts in bulk for less than a million, but i just think that 1 million for a devourer part is just audacious.
do you all realize how boring it is to pimp the chaos caves after u are capped? its not fun at all. not to mention that the most i get with my high rank is crap. i'll leave it at that as you 2 arent seeing any of the real points im making and are just going back to the whole hunt for techs and sell them thing.
Originally posted by WebShock
why do you 2 keep focusing on rare stuff?
what about the mid level guy who cant buy psi boosters from live players or the tank that needs 100 medkits sold at less price than the drug store sells them for?
you dont see these sales anymore because they arent profitable in the millions.
what about the non rares like spells and mid level guns. there was a point in time that constructors would make these in bulk then put them up for sale to the public. you dont see this at all anymore. why?
because it isnt profitable enough.
its not laziness, its greed.
I have stated time and again that my and my bud have been able to easily and cheeply buy every BPable item in the game with LITTLE effort. You can buy all level 2 and 3 imps with relative ease. You hit the trade forums and you can buy just about any non-rare weapon in the game, with tons of slots, for reasonable prices.
Why am I talking about rares? Cause you started this thread with
So what now, money is worthless. it wont even buy you low level melee parts.
Some tard was buying Dimension Splitter parts for 10 million a piece the other day. WTF!!!! can you all remember when a DS was 4 mil and the only things that sell for millions are rares. So it SOUNDED like this was about rares.
Oh, and my Spies have all started by constructing and selling medkits. Also, you can recycle medkits, so when a tank gets 20 in recycle, they never need to buy medkits again. Most tanks I know have a few hundred medkits from recycling their own.
Originally posted by WebShock
basically you all say that you are ok with paying 1 million for a tech part. and if you dont want to pay that much you are lazy
:rolleyes: o_O
ok thats your opinion. i see it diffrently.
The flip side to having to pay 1 mil for a TP is that you can also ask 1 mil for a TP.
Considering you can get 50-100 good (ie not melee, drone, etc)parts in a week easily and that you need at most 50 to completely kit out any character that gives you the option of either direct trades or selling yours and buying others. Both work fine if you put a little effort into it.
Once you have the things you need every TP you harvest is pure cash that you can use for whatever you like.
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 21:31
lol i still do pimp caves a lot
kuz i need to cap my int 88 atm, and to help ppus in clan lvl.
and in some ocasions someone always drop from the sky at cycrow, and say hi and i say hello and goodbye
do u remenber when gloves 1st appear in game,
they were sold for millions aswell
now they are fucking cheap...
same thing will hapend with devourer ravager, in a few weeks
what u dont seem to realise is that rich ppl spent their money careless kuz they have so much, so they dont give a fuck
now if ur not rich its really ur problem honest.
its like in real life
my pay check is sometin around 900 € month, and i pay for my house 300€ and my house costed me around 75.000€
When i see someone driving a CLK thats costs if im not worng around 120.000€ i say
"motherfucker driving a car that cost more then my fucking house"
but u know u am i to blame him, he has the money, he can spend it how ever he fucking wants.
the diference is in the real worldisnt easy to be rich
but in neocron it is
Originally posted by Devils Grace
"motherfucker driving a car that cost more then my fucking house"
:lol:
Why are you in the chaos caves after you've capped. That's just massochistic.
I haven't seen any real change in the price of bulk medis and psi boosters since day one of retail. They are capped by what the NPCs charged so they never will change.
If your mid-level char can't make a decent profit from aggie missions, launcher farming, poison mobbing, etc. then he's doing a lot wrong. Until about rank 40 or 50 you don't need to think about rares and non-rare stuff is still cheap to get made. Maybe it's a little more now than once but not much and most tradeskillers will work for costs for newbs if they ask. Considering you can start solo WB hunting at level 30 on any class you have plenty of time to get cash together by the time you need it.
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