View Full Version : LE use on Saturn
I have been levelling my melee PE on Saturn a bunch lately, and just wanted to share some views.
1. Genrep camping is nuts. Its hard to genrep anywhere north of Tech Haven without having a BD or TG runner camp the genrep... and if its a TG runner, there is a decent chance they will be doing so with a Rhino. Everyone things camping genreps outside of op wars is lame, yet so many people do it.
2. Random PKing is nuts. By random I mean PKing not done for any other purpose than just to kill someone. Random PKing itself isnt evil mind you- just when its done to the point that it disrupts gameplay. Stealthing PEs just ran around killing everything in sight.
I have spent a lot of time out at the bunker (which of course is a very well known levelling spot) with my PE and my PPU, both of which REALLY need teams to level much at all (so dont try the 'use lesser known levelling areas' line, since I need teams to level). The number of LE users has drastically grown.
As a PPU now, if you want to provide support out at bunker, you are better off to be LE yourself cause the LE runners outnumber the non-LE ones.
But Strych9, what's your point?
The point is this: I have long fought for the rights of the PKers in this game, even though their ignoring of RP really didn't sit well with me. Now, after seeing how they behave, I no longer have any sympathy for them.
I would LOVE for Neocron to be a game where no one had an LE, and runners relied on RP to establish reputations and killing only took place when there was a reason.
I dont want to see Neocron made any more carebear than it is, but the way I see it, its the actions of the PKers that will bring that about.
So you guys are making your own beds. Just be prepared to sleep in them.
Keep camping genreps and pissing off runners that are simply trying to get to a high enough level that they can fight back. Watch what happens.
:(
But it's a post-apocalyptic cyberpunk world! That means killing someone is common politeness, you're a rude jerk if you were to actually be nice! Shame on you!
:p
hudsonbeck
20-01-04, 16:23
I am a loooong time Saturn player.
I reciently started on Pluto. There was a player run event yesterday where lots of items were hidden throught Industrial and OZ sectors. I am mid lvl and TG and was hesitant to go (Scared to lose what little i have because of PKing.
I went anyway and saw many, many enemy runners who never shot me once.
I coudl not say teh same if it had been Saturn.
I am not knocking Saturn... Its my baby :)
Its just that things are different... and i wish, like you, that things were different than they are now.
Not that i said much or that it matters,
Hudson
Originally posted by hudsonbeck
I am a loooong time Saturn player.
I reciently started on Pluto. There was a player run event yesterday where lots of items were hidden throught Industrial and OZ sectors. I am mid lvl and TG and was hesitant to go (Scared to lose what little i have because of PKing.
I went anyway and saw many, many enemy runners who never shot me once.
I coudl not say teh same if it had been Saturn.
I am not knocking Saturn... Its my baby :)
Its just that things are different... and i wish, like you, that things were different than they are now.
Not that i said much or that it matters,
Hudson lol hudson i went hunting for the items myself on my noobish xx/15 tank, i found a judge, C10 and 4 vehicle keys lol, i recon on saturn i would of been dead at the first enemy runner i come across.
but you know what, im down with that, if i get killed so be it, if i kill, i can live with that person taking a mental note of my name and leveling to one day kill me(gives them a purpose to level eh;) )
just cos you proberbly dont think killing enemies is roleplay dont mean it isnt, but of course a lot of people on saturn dont want to roleplay, and i see no reason why anyone should have it pushed on to them to roleplay.
we aint actors were players:p
i used to not kill people cos i just wasnt happy about doing that, but tbh most people are more than happy to gun people down so its all fair, pker killed me, then i become pker.
meh i think i started with a point but kinda lost it somewhere oh well:rolleyes:
Things have certainly got worse over the last 14 months in terms of pk's. When I first levelled up in places like the Military Base, everyone had their LE out (it had a penalty back then), but we were only really looking out for a few pkers (Starkes, HOT etc). Over time though, and I think, partly due to there being so many more capped (and bored?) runners on the servers, random pking in levelling areas is now an epidemic. I levelled my apu up with an LE chip in (for speed and because he couldn't self-poke) about 5 months ago, and back then I was in the minority. Nowadays its pretty even, and I can't say I'm suprised. Its cause and effect after all, players are putting in their LE chips instead of leaving the game.
I spent some time at the bunker the other day, healing and buffing the runners trying to level. I lasted about 15 mins before a sniper started taking them all down, and shortly after, a full scale BD raiding party turned up and tried to take me down with multiple devourers. Its crazy there now, it really is, I spent more time protecting people from players than I did from the mobs.
hudsonbeck
20-01-04, 16:41
I didnt find shit:(
But i had fun... only been player killed once so far and it was exciteing.
I enjoy Saturn and all the "drama"
I just wish some jerkoff who is TG would not attack a FA who he doesnt even know, just because, like i said, He is a jerkoff;)
I have no issues with Saturn, I love it, like i said, its my baby:)
I kinda agree with Strych9
I thikin there should be a penelty for wearing a LE (i know u didnt say that)
BUT
Then penelty should work on a curve....
A noob should get little or no penelty for using one.... THe higher your rank (second number) the steeper the penelty. That would discourage high lvl players fron using them and the penelty should have no effect on tradeskilling stats. Only primary attack and i think COn too.
Just an idea about the LE,
Hudson
thing is sel, id say the pkers at the MB was worse back then, starkes was raiding the map 24/7 he would raid and raid and raid, if you killed him he would be right back in minutes, there would be blood brothers clan at the MB, i remember nearly everytime i would go there With Slit Wrists was i the genrep room or around the base killing all enemies to TG.
i have more xamples if you need em :lol:
ok you have more Pkers now, but i dont see then at the MB as much as pkers in the old days.
and ok maybe this is moving a bit away from the point, but for the bored Pkers there has to be capped non pkers, or capped pk hunters.
i look at the mercs and there mostly high level, yet they dont defend there base area in a way that a military unit should.
when my MoD clan was active before i went BD, myself and a number of others from the clan would patrol the area waiting for pkers to dare show up, and i always gave em a fight.
you know what i used to get people thank me for dealing with pkers and for just patroling the area.
you blame guys like Vet/nish/enemy/andronicus and whoever else pks there, but to me the mercs are as much to blame for not protecting there land.
i know they cant defend 24 hours a day, but most of the pking is done when there on.
Originally posted by ezza
i know they cant defend 24 hours a day, but most of the pking is done when there on.
its cos there "trying" to take all our OPS and not worrying about there own base's.
But the good old days with the raids at MB owned now theres like all of one or two guys with out a LE in there so no one to kill :(
to me the mercs are as much to blame for not protecting there land.
I'm not sticking up for the mercs, but don't you think that they get more than a little tired of chasing pkers day-in, day-out?
I was in 101st, but I left a while ago because it got too boring chasing pkers all day, I had no time to do anything else I wanted to.
As you said, you finally catch them (sometimes unaware in a certain wall :D ) kill them, and they're back in 5 minutes, so it becomes one boring repetitive cycle.
Oh, and good for the levelers, finally learning to put their LE in.
Originally posted by L3m0n
its cos there "trying" to take all our OPS and not worrying about there own base's.
But the good old days with the raids at MB owned now theres like all of one or two guys with out a LE in there so no one to kill :( yup
hell i know mercs want ops as much as any faction, but they have the added resonsiblity of guarding there base, imo something they dont do very well.
i mean they are fighting some good PvPers day in day out, you would think they would of got good themselves.
i know when i was fighting King of Scheme daily my aiming improved
The ONLY thing that pisses me off about PKer's is the ones that go looking for low lvl runners (on Saturn) saying that they will have a capped alt to come and fight me - What a fuckin' crock of shit ! Maybe they do have an alt that can fight back, but ever considered that they may not wanna come fight your skanky ass? In that case, they have just killed (for no reason) a very low lvl runner who has no way of defending themselves.
Gets on my fuckin' nerves. :rolleyes:
The thing that amuses me though is that if you get killed by a rampant pk'er and you DM them to ask why they thought it was really necessary to pick on a x/12 runner they tell you to put in your LE and STFU. But when you have your LE in they call you a carebear and tell you to take the bloody thing out!
Most of the time I dont mind PKers (except when I've trekked all the way from NC to MB, forgetting I had taken my LE out to let someone kill me, and that git Titan pk'ed me one zone away from MB. I was pissed for a few minutes but I got over it:p), and knowing that they frequently attack the main leveling spots near HQs you would think people would explore some to find other leveling spots.
And as a huge suprise for me last night, I found out the Vett is only an egotistical git ( :p ) on the forums. He's quite pleasant in game;)
How can Mercs protect ANYTHING when all you see out there is Stealthing PEs? If the PKers attacked runners their own rank, there would be at least a decent chance of someone landing some hits on them while unstealthed.
But as it stands now, a /40 and under runner will drop real fast to a capped PE, especially when the lower level runner just ran into the bunker to heal up or something.
Did I mention some TGs actually pulled a Rhino up to the entrance of the bunker and killed people inside using the Rhino's gun?
I am really hoping that DOY smoothes things out. Right now our CA clan is just getting everyone levelled up (mostly using the LE) in preparation for the changes in DOY.
*News Flash*
From Test Server Patch 223 Notes:
- Fixed a bug in the mechanism preventing the reimplantation of the Law Enforcer from skill rank 30 on. If you are above skill rank 30, you will not be able to implant the LE again.
:eek:
30 is way too low imo. x/30 isnt JACK in terms of being able to attack or defend onesself against other players.
Oh well... here is the chance for the PKers to REALLY drive away customers.
We'll see how it goes.
Originally posted by Strych9
30 is way too low imo. x/30 isnt JACK in terms of being able to attack or defend onesself against other players.
Oh well... here is the chance for the PKers to REALLY drive away customers.
We'll see how it goes.
That's what I say too, it should be an option at high levels also. Add back the cash reward reduction or something else but leave it implantable.
I would prefer it to be unimplantable after level 40 or 45.........
can't really lump all teh PK'ers in one group, man. Not all of them go to the bunker to kill ppl half their level, some actually hunt for faction enemies of relative equal rank.
It's the ** assholes that camp teh bunker killing groups of lowbies that's freakin' LAME. And they of course are the ones who run like hell as soon as any real challenge shows up.
But some of them have some decency. They're the ones looking for a fight, not just to be a royal asshole and kill as many lowbies as possible.
And teh real scum of the earth: The groups of players who cluster at the entrances to aggie cellars and city sewers and team-gank ppl coming down to level. I mean, WTF? How much fun can it BE to kill someone 1/10th your rank?
well raiding is as much about hitting on the run as much as it is having a challange.
be it low level or high level, whos gonna hang around for the enemy to go log on there PPUo_O
Originally posted by ezza
well raiding is as much about hitting on the run as much as it is having a challange.
be it low level or high level, whos gonna hang around for the enemy to go log on there PPUo_O Challenge???? What is the LEAST bit challenging about what the PKers do when they attack low level chars that are in the middle of fighting mobs?????
You say its about having a challenge, and THEN immediately indicate that they dont hang around for the possibility of a PPU showing up (i.e.... A CHALLENGE).
Shadow Dancer
20-01-04, 18:22
I was under the impression you couldn't put it BACK in after level 30?
Meaning you can level with it past lvl 30, but once u take it out........
Originally posted by Strych9
Challenge???? What is the LEAST bit challenging about what the PKers do when they attack low level chars that are in the middle of fighting mobs?????
You say its about having a challenge, and THEN immediately indicate that they dont hang around for the possibility of a PPU showing up (i.e.... A CHALLENGE).
meh dunno dont care im just talking here:D
Cliffraiser
20-01-04, 18:27
only reason i come back to saturn these days is to random pk...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I was under the impression you couldn't put it BACK in after level 30?
Meaning you can level with it past lvl 30, but once u take it out........ Thats what it sounded like to me as well.
And that makes sense. I am fine with that.
But what that means, for those PKers that dont like having all of their targets with the LE in....
It means that there is now a big incentive to leave the LE in even longer- likely til you just HAVE to be in a clan or you are capped.
Since its easy to get around the clan restriction- I think this change will negatively impact the PKer even more. At least now the runner knows they can always put it back in, so they may be tempted to try playing without the LE.
But as soon as you say "if you take it out, its not going back in", I bet a lot more people will have it in and keep it in.
Should be interesting.
Oh well... here is the chance for the PKers to REALLY drive away customers.
if these people actually make themselves something other than a submissive victim... things will get better tenfold....
gaaaah.
here, lemme quote myself from the 'le should get extra brainslot' post:
Originally posted by Marx
no one in my clan has a single combat skill.
we've never been attacked anywhere, and we generally work out of pepper park or the canyon.
once there's a good opinion of you within the masses, the chances of someone killing you is lessened dramatically. i think it's unfair that a person would have the same thing i've worked hard to earn handed to them without work.
i earned my fourth brain slot by thinking laterally and making peace work. it's not hard to do, and the servers would be more interesting if more people followed suit instead of hiding behind a game mechanic.
if people stop acting like such wall flowers and stop whining/crying when they die (whining/crying provides entertainment to the person who killed them, hence they'll do it again)... then i think you'd see a drastic change in player dynamic.
but, the world now is full of people who can't stand the idea of dying. "u r steelin' mi gaime timez! u o me 4 too minats of werk!"
Promethius
20-01-04, 18:39
Originally posted by Strych9
I have been levelling my melee PE on Saturn a bunch lately, and just wanted to share some views.
1. Genrep camping is nuts. Its hard to genrep anywhere north of Tech Haven without having a BD or TG runner camp the genrep... and if its a TG runner, there is a decent chance they will be doing so with a Rhino. Everyone things camping genreps outside of op wars is lame, yet so many people do it.
2. Random PKing is nuts. By random I mean PKing not done for any other purpose than just to kill someone. Random PKing itself isnt evil mind you- just when its done to the point that it disrupts gameplay. Stealthing PEs just ran around killing everything in sight.
I have spent a lot of time out at the bunker (which of course is a very well known levelling spot) with my PE and my PPU, both of which REALLY need teams to level much at all (so dont try the 'use lesser known levelling areas' line, since I need teams to level). The number of LE users has drastically grown.
As a PPU now, if you want to provide support out at bunker, you are better off to be LE yourself cause the LE runners outnumber the non-LE ones.
But Strych9, what's your point?
The point is this: I have long fought for the rights of the PKers in this game, even though their ignoring of RP really didn't sit well with me. Now, after seeing how they behave, I no longer have any sympathy for them.
I would LOVE for Neocron to be a game where no one had an LE, and runners relied on RP to establish reputations and killing only took place when there was a reason.
I dont want to see Neocron made any more carebear than it is, but the way I see it, its the actions of the PKers that will bring that about.
So you guys are making your own beds. Just be prepared to sleep in them.
Keep camping genreps and pissing off runners that are simply trying to get to a high enough level that they can fight back. Watch what happens.
:(
Well the reasons i PK and i'm sure its similar for others is...
You've got a capped combat character and you want to use them. Theres no OP wars atm and well zone fighting in peppar gets boring. Sooo you go off looking for a fight. Battle Dome / Military base /Cyrow etc. Then after you've killed all the people that are running about. All youve got left to do is wait for someone to GR in. And you do this for a while until teh inevitable PPU/APU team comes and you GR out.
Its basicaly a cycle that keeps goin. Also some will proly say log a tradeskill char or watever...but who wants to poke/ress/rep/const all day ? Definetly not me.
Most of the reason i PK low chars is because they usually have a bigger alt who wants to seek revenge. Thus making a fight. And if they don't usualy they got some bully protector who will come to the newbs rescue. (If the lowby player turns out to be a REAL newb of course i'll lay off them and set them off with some cash)
Promethius
20-01-04, 18:43
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
And teh real scum of the earth: The groups of players who cluster at the entrances to aggie cellars and city sewers and team-gank ppl coming down to level. I mean, WTF? How much fun can it BE to kill someone 1/10th your rank?
More fun than sitting around plaza 1 bored...
Originally posted by Promethius
Well the reasons i PK and i'm sure its similar for others is...
You've got a capped combat character and you want to use them. Theres no OP wars atm and well zone fighting in peppar gets boring. Sooo you go off looking for a fight. Battle Dome / Military base /Cyrow etc. Then after you've killed all the people that are running about. All youve got left to do is wait for someone to GR in. And you do this for a while until teh inevitable PPU/APU team comes and you GR out.
Its basicaly a cycle that keeps goin. Also some will proly say log a tradeskill char or watever...but who wants to poke/ress/rep/const all day ? Definetly not me.Start a new char? Actually try to fight the APU/PPU team?
I dont see how what you say above in ANY way justifies picking on newbs that cannot in any way fight back.
???
And yes, I know for a fact that directly applies to you. ;)
Most of the reason i PK low chars is because they usually have a bigger alt who wants to seek revenge. Thus making a fight. And if they don't usualy they got some bully protector who will come to the newbs rescue. (If the lowby player turns out to be a REAL newb of course i'll lay off them and set them off with some cash) First, please read the post by Rince on this idea. Its a joke.
Second, how do you find out if the player is a real newb or doesnt have an alt? You certainly dont wait around to ask them or find out. You admit yourself that you run when an actual challenge presents itself.
Originally posted by Marx
if these people actually make themselves something other than a submissive victim... things will get better tenfold....
Come on Marx, what is the /20 Spy that is trying to level supposed to do in response? The PKer attacks that runner BECAUSE he can ONLY BE a submissive victim.
In PKers attacked runners that had a chance to fight back, we wouldnt be having this discussion.
if people stop acting like such wall flowers and stop whining/crying when they die (whining/crying provides entertainment to the person who killed them, hence they'll do it again)... then i think you'd see a drastic change in player dynamic.The whiners dont just start randomly whining. They whine when they are unable to play for more than 10 minutes without having to spend another 10 minutes getting poked and back into the game.
But, I will stop along this vein. I remembered past positions you have had on the idea that the victim being to blame for the crime against them, and i dont want to rehash that again.
I will just say this- whines happen only in response to something else.
No matter to me. The PKers actions + the change to the LE chip with the next retail patch = far fewer targets for PKers.
Like I said. As long as you guys dont mind seeing more and more LE users out there... keep it up. :)
I will just say this- whines happen only in response to something else
the spark starts the fire, but the fire burns down the house.
But, I will stop along this vein. I remembered past positions you have had on the idea that the victim being to blame for the crime against them, and i dont want to rehash that again.
only in certain scenarios, remember that.
Come on Marx, what is the /20 Spy that is trying to level supposed to do in response? The PKer attacks that runner BECAUSE he can ONLY BE a submissive victim.
how about banding together with other players in a similar predicament? join or start a clan which has peaceful interests. work on nap's with groups/players. provide services to all persons, clans, factions... best thing a newbie can do is roll a poker and do everyone for free for awhile, (s)he'll be able to go pretty much anywhere with a free reign until people start to forget who (s)he is and what they do.
let's not play the ''newby = retahd' game. There's alot one can do to make themselves less of a target, amazingly viable options which don't involve the le. are those options as simple as the le? no. are they more beneficial to all involved than the le? yes.
anyway, this all leads to my 'le's shouldn't be ingame' argument, which this really isn't the place for.
edit - just remember, "You'll never die alone"
I went to the bunker on my PE yesterday to find everyone there with LEs in, even people of similar rank to me and I have mine out. I was surprised but on the other hand I was expecting it as although people don't mind dying, its the fact you have to re equip and implant everything and sort your belt and inventory back out which is a hassle.
Also as pking happens so often no one does much about it unless you can assemble a largeish group of high lvl tanks and PPUs to kill the pker you can't do much. In my last MMORPG for example pking happened a fair amount, however if you told members of your guild (same as a clan) that you had been pked by X person of X class of X level (guessed by kit used) in X location you could expect a fair sized group of people to come a long and kick their arse. Sometimes these turned into wars but people would still drop whatever they were doing to come help out, but in Neocron if everyone did that when a clan member or friend got pked then no one would do any lvling or what have you.
Promethius
20-01-04, 19:02
Originally posted by Strych9
Start a new char? Actually try to fight the APU/PPU team?
Aight I dunno how long You've been playing Neocron but a Tank vs a half decent APU/PPU team...it useless. APU can be out heal a tanks dmg easily with a PPU concentrated on them...especialy if the APU has ANY poison resist.
heres an idea I'll round up a APU/PPU and u bring the best tank you kno and we'll have them fight 20 times. Well see how many times tha tank wins.
I dont see how what you say above in ANY way justifies picking on newbs that cannot in any way fight back.
???
And yes, I know for a fact that directly applies to you. ;)First, please read the post by Rince on this idea. Its a joke.
Second, how do you find out if the player is a real newb or doesnt have an alt? You certainly dont wait around to ask them or find out. You admit yourself that you run when an actual challenge presents itself.Come on Marx, what is the /20 Spy that is trying to level supposed to do in response? The PKer attacks that runner BECAUSE he can ONLY BE a submissive victim.
I PK because i get bored...you kno sitting there listening to trade cuz your capped no need to lvl any of your chars and jsut waiting for an OP fight to break out or a clanny to help. So ya think of places to Fight... peppar, battle dome....etc. Go to peppar and its nothing but PPU's and zoners. Loads of fun there. So u can't GR anywhere so not really any place to PK others who are of somewat similar rank. Can't jsut raid TG solo cuz well I'm not a stealthing PE. So it comes down to aggy holes with low Sl chars. or in teh wastelands some where or in any place i can find a fight.
Gah I'm so tired to read all this. In the end it all comes down to one thing: Every action you take has consequences. If you can't stand them, then just stop doing the respective action. It's so simple, but instead they come here and start whining or proposing changes so their suffering is eased.
And one thing I might want to add: I never have seen so many new players on Saturn like in the last two to three weeks (and I mean real newbies, not players form other servers or alt-chars). And all wear a LE (naturally).
Originally posted by Marx
the spark starts the fire, but the fire burns down the house.Yep yep. And who gets charged for the fire... the guy that ignited the spark, or the fire itself?
And who could have prevented the fire?
Point is, PKers are the ones that set the spark. You may not think the fire itself is justified in spreading or burning down the house, but as long as you are aware of how the fire will respond, then you take the fate of the house in your own hands.
how about banding together with other players in a similar predicament? Join or start a clan which has peaceful interests. Work on nap's with groups/players. provide services to all persons, clans, factions... best thing a newbie can do is roll a poker and do everyone for free for awhile, he'll be able to go pretty much anywhere with a free reign until people start to forget who he/she is and what they do.That make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. But that is far from realistic.
We cant expect every newbie in the game to roll a poker as their primary and give out free pokes, can we?
How about PKers work on trying to attack other high level runners. That is actually feasible.
let's not play the ''newby = retahd' game. There's alot one can do to make themselves less of a target, amazingly viable options which don't involve the le. are those options as simple as the le? no. are they more beneficial to all involved than the le? yes.You sitting in the forum casting pearls of wisdom is great, but the reality of the game is this- as long as PKers get off on ganking newbs, which it seems they do, then the players they gank, whether true newbs or others that are just starting new characters, will get pissed off and either quit or use the LE.
I hope the threads by ubar PKar doodz arent TOO pathetic once the new LE rules come out and they whine about everyone using the LE. Vett had one already... but I suspect plenty more will come.
Originally posted by Promethius
Aight I dunno how long You've been playing Neocron but a Tank vs a half decent APU/PPU team...it useless. APU can be out heal a tanks dmg easily with a PPU concentrated on them...especialy if the APU has ANY poison resist.Useless... like when your tank attacks a lone /20 Spy?
LOL
Gee, I wouldnt want someone that is capable of fighting back to face a useless situation. Lets save that for those without any combat ability.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Promethius
Well the reasons i PK and i'm sure its similar for others is...
You've got a capped combat character and you want to use them. Theres no OP wars atm and well zone fighting in peppar gets boring. Sooo you go off looking for a fight. Battle Dome / Military base /Cyrow etc. Then after you've killed all the people that are running about. All youve got left to do is wait for someone to GR in. And you do this for a while until teh inevitable PPU/APU team comes and you GR out.
Its basicaly a cycle that keeps goin. Also some will proly say log a tradeskill char or watever...but who wants to poke/ress/rep/const all day ? Definetly not me.
Most of the reason i PK low chars is because they usually have a bigger alt who wants to seek revenge. Thus making a fight. And if they don't usualy they got some bully protector who will come to the newbs rescue. (If the lowby player turns out to be a REAL newb of course i'll lay off them and set them off with some cash)
With such an attitude, I understand why more and more people keep their LE.
What are you going to do when all your potential targets will have their LE on ?
I liked your efforts to justify your actions though but you definitely failed in convincing me.
Instead of PKing this way, you should organize fight tournaments, start new OP wars (quite easy to do), change faction and challenge the rulers of Saturn.... Most Pkers I see have no real courage on this server and start whinning when a PPU comes. I even had to turn Trade Channel off because of stupid talks about owning people. If you get bored and are only intersted in fighting, I can ensure you that others are like you and they'd be more than happy to have worthy opponents.
Noob killing is just for ego-wanking :D
As a total newbie to the game who took his LE out right away to clan up, I'm curious: other than the "huge rush" that you get from killing me in the aggie cellar while i'm mobbing for levels, do you actually get anything else? does it give you exp to kill someone 1/4 your level?
if it did, i could understand. maybe if i was on your turf, i could understand. perhaps if i was carrying lots of cool crap you knew about and wanted, i could understand.
but when you're running through killing me, ESPECIALLY when there's higher level people you could kill, it's just stupid as near as i can tell. it's the "geek bully" syndrome. can't beat people up irl, so i'll do it in game and laugh at their frustration.
Yep yep. And who gets charged for the fire... the guy that ignited the spark, or the fire itself
well, i was speaking from a purely 'accidental electrical fire' standpoint, but what you say is valid.
however, a spark does not always produce a flame. its purely up the the young player that was killed whether or not to ignite. if they do, things are bound to only get worse for them. as i said, whining, crying, trying to act 'tough', or badmouthing will only get you killed more.
That make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. But that is far from realistic.
We cant expect every newbie in the game to roll a poker as their primary and give out free pokes, can we?
How about PKers work on trying to attack other high level runners. That is actually feasible.
speaking from a purely pluto perspective - not really, it is realistic. i'm willing to take new players under my arm so as my protection is their protection (many other peaceful clans also offer this), i make it known as such to all the (new) players i assist. most generally won't take it because i seem to be the virtual equivalent of the dirty old man who smells like alchohol and sits on the corner.
and yes, not every player has to develop a tradeskill to offer around, but c'mon... if you want to play true neutral and have everyone as your friend without an le; you'd have to do something. the new players i've assisted as of late have all understood that faction enemies can, and probably would kill them if given the chance, but they understood that. what gets me is the sheer number of people who don't understand that hey, unless you do something to merit otherwise, you are a hostile.
You sitting in the forum casting pearls of wisdom is great, but the reality of the game is this- as long as PKers get off on ganking newbs, which it seems they do, then the players they gank, whether true newbs or others that are just starting new characters, will get pissed off and either quit or use the LE
i'm not doubting the truth of this, i'm simply saying that le's shoot the player using it in the foot. what happens the day they decide to take it out and can't get it back in? all that freedom they enjoyed is now gone, they're fair game on the market, and their pvp skills probably aren't as honed as those of the person who's been playing since before them. yet those people who work around the le will have more social ties, more economic ties, and hell, probably more junk than the person who's probably been flying solo since character creation.
the person who adopts the no le policy is probably already used to loss due to belt drops and getting killed by players and non player agressors. the le'd player has no sense of loss because they don't drop belts... hell, there was one player on pluto who lost 2 wyatt earps and a liberator because he didn't know the first slot was a safe slot - after wearing a le for about a month... no, i'm not saying the le is to blame for this, well, yes i am... but its the mixture of the illusion of safety and the lack of knowlege most players have when playing which led to this mans loss.
I hope the threads by ubar PKar doodz arent TOO pathetic once the new LE rules come out and they whine about everyone using the LE. Vett had one already... but I suspect plenty more will come.
the problem is they're whining for the wrong reason. "'onoz, le spy'"... yeah, in a time and age when all the clans are using some form of teamspeak anyway.
:rolleyes:
my argument with the le is it provides too much care which can be taken away too easily. i say, force the new players to adapt to the harshness around them, at least that way there's the distinct possibility of gaining social ties...
i say, put exp/money sinks back in, that way the people who truly manage to be peaceful with everyone reap the true benefits they worked for...
i say, make new players factionless and let them choose a proper faction from that point...
i say, alot of stuff, but most of it is retarded in one way or another.
edit - removed capital letars, 'cause i'm raging.
I am all for a non-LE game. One where your actions dictate how you are treated.
But sadly, I suspect there are a handful of players that would abuse the piss out of that situation. Sure those players could be easily identified and dealt with though.
So if we are talking ideals here, then sure I buy what you are saying.
If we are talking in terms of the here and now, then I think PKers have a big choice to make. Accept the challenge that comes with fighting players of their own rank, or deal with seeing more and more people using the LE, and for longer periods of time.
Promethius
21-01-04, 20:16
Originally posted by Spex
And one thing I might want to add: I never have seen so many new players on Saturn like in the last two to three weeks (and I mean real newbies, not players form other servers or alt-chars). And all wear a LE (naturally).
Definetly, I've helped 2 freshly newbies. Found him when he handed me a rifle and said build me this. Gave him general use knowledge of how to do things such as GR, factions, BP/CST/slots, etc. Hopefully we start seeing a greater population.
I havent seen anyone camping a genrep in MONTHS, other then battledome gr...so whats this about?
And if you're talking about cycrow/crp, damn right were gonna camp the GR's...especially when its on gr all...
Devils Grace
21-01-04, 20:59
one thing, and only one thing i agree......
aggies killing...........nuff said..
if i go to mb to pk, i pk all that moves and usually what makes me leave are neutrals, kuz i dont want to loose that many SL.
Let them use the fucking LE, theres plenty of ppl to pk, ppl should use the LE untill they got confortble, either with the char or in case is a nib with the game.............ppl like vet that want LE removed, gives a clear statment of what they are or what do they want.............
the 1st thing i do when i start a char is to take out the le, if i do get killed bad luck..................
Im can understand u dont like to be ganked in pluto kuz u spent half day finding someone to poke
ppl are learning now and use their LE, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE SAID THAT IT SHOULD BE, and now u cry that there is to many ppl actyually using them:rolleyes:
for fuck sake,
i bet ur like those ppl that go to the toilet and trys to find the correct side of the toilet paper to clean ur ass, but u choose a diferent side every time, thinking its the correct one8|
I don't understand the infactuation with LE users in the first place....
Whats the point of pking unclanned runners? They will just be noobs 90% of the time anyway....
I usually wont PK unclanned runners no matter what faction they are, but then again my PKing days are over...I gave up on pking in this game long ago with its belt dropping and SL hits...
Originally posted by Strych9
I would LOVE for Neocron to be a game where no one had an LE, and runners relied on RP to establish reputations and killing only took place when there was a reason.
It would be nice but it'll never happen - too many wankers around (see Vets recent post locked by Odin for details)
Please note I'm not directly calling Vet a wanker, but if he wants to take it that way I really wont mind :-)
Originally posted by g0rt
I havent seen anyone camping a genrep in MONTHS, other then battledome gr...so whats this about?
Theres a paradox for you
People go to Battledome to fight, but rather than fight them in the Dome fair and square they resort to ganking them at the GR
PvP indeed............NOT!
Originally posted by 5150
Theres a paradox for you
People go to Battledome to fight, but rather than fight them in the Dome fair and square they resort to ganking them at the GR
PvP indeed............NOT!
I think you should be able to pay 5x the GR cost to go without synap that would be sweet
20k to go instead of 4k, but no synap...i would do it every time
4 things that some folks seem to have forgotten:
1. this is a PvP game.
2. if you want to engage in PvP, take out your LE.
3. if you don't want to engage in PvP, leave you LE in.
4. this is a PvP game.
it's that simple. personally i don't believe in killing low level runners, but i will kill my enemies, or those that have infringed on boundaries that i myself choose to set. if you don't want to be a part of that, leave your LE in.
if, however, you take your LE out you send out one signal, and one signal only - i wish to kill and be killed.
the test patch only enforces the rules that were set a long time ago, but were bugged from then till now. you can take the LE in and out till rank 30, and then you either leave it in, or take it out for good. you can still choose at what point you wish to join in the PvP, but you can't choose and then unchoose - the choice is a choice for life.
Yes, its a PvP game, no doubt.
Still, people will get fed up by beeing constantly killed by runners in situations they have no chances to win.
I am in Neocron since the beta, and in all the time of the release there was only 1-2 attacks on my runners (outside outpost warfare) who were kind of equal game. In all others (and it must have been closing to 100 by now), I was attacked by runners twice my rank, kill teams, while hacking, while killing high end mobs, loads of attempts of sneaking up to my low rankers in their apps, beeing killed while droning, etc.
Lately I am keeping in all my non maxed runners the LE in - about two months ago I gave up on playing low-med combat power runners without an LE since they just got killed too often without a change to run or fight back. And I think when that patch comes which prevents LE to be put back, even more people will opt to keep their LE in. And that means the easy prey the rampart killers are after will become sparse.
Originally posted by Promethius
I PK because i get bored...you kno sitting there listening to trade cuz your capped no need to lvl any of your chars and jsut waiting for an OP fight to break out or a clanny to help. So ya think of places to Fight... peppar, battle dome....etc. Go to peppar and its nothing but PPU's and zoners. Loads of fun there. So u can't GR anywhere so not really any place to PK others who are of somewat similar rank. Can't jsut raid TG solo cuz well I'm not a stealthing PE. So it comes down to aggy holes with low Sl chars. or in teh wastelands some where or in any place i can find a fight.
This is so pathetic. This game offers so much more than just capping a char and ganking people, but you don't seem to get it. Very, very sad for you and for us, since you destroy other people's game experience.
Originally posted by ezza
hell i know mercs want ops as much as any faction, but they have the added resonsiblity of guarding there base, imo something they dont do very well.
Hell, I can't see you guarding the pepper park like a mafia organization should. No runner can pass the pepper park without getting killed, unless he is a stealther. I can't see any effort in changing this for your customers. So please put your own house in order first.
Richard Slade
22-01-04, 13:19
As the well known Anti-Random-PK I am...
I gotta say that I hated saturn for it
But as time has gone by
I tried some other (FREE) games
And realized one thing...
PK is all you can do after a while
Same old threadmill lvling and then what...
HOWEVER
I'm still VERY against
1)N00b killing/bashing
2)GR camping
3)Ally kill (Yes TG that means you to)
And by the time I come back
I WILL hunt you as always before
Just not for the same reason ;)
Originally posted by maver!ck
Hell, I can't see you guarding the pepper park like a mafia organization should. No runner can pass the pepper park without getting killed, unless he is a stealther. I can't see any effort in changing this for your customers. So please put your own house in order first.
i often hang out in PP2 looking for errant enemy runners as i used to hang around J01 as a merc.
im not sure what you actually saying, no runner can pass the PP without getting killed? and thats ok by me, and your taking about PP1 that aint BD territory k?
so the BD house is in order k thanks
metalangel
22-01-04, 14:15
It's one thing to PK, but half the time I don't know why, or even realize it.
I was levelling at the MB bunker, was down to half health, when this dipshit who was fighting mobs sees me at half health decides to come and kill me instead. So I zap him with my freezer and try to escape, but of course he's maxxed out his running speed while I'm laden with ammo and loot so he catches up and kills me. Which is all good, I suppose, until I come out, NO EQUIPMENT, impaired 40%, and he's waiting there by my stuff to gank me again. Wow, that was a real challenge, you must be very proud of your amazing ability to kill someone with no health, no armour and no weapon other than their fists.
And that's what it's all about, they say the best time to start a fight is when the other person isn't ready, and that's what Saturn ppl do. The Devourer has become the ultimate tool for this. Roast people as they come into cellars and sewers, often before the sync screen has even disappeared for them, so they enter the sewer to watch themselves fall over, dead. Or wait by a GR, and incinerate people with impairment who can't use their weapons.
Lovely. Haven't you heard, there's no honour in a slaughter? Why do you think it tells you 'pick on someone your own size!' if you're 60/62 ** and kill mutant troopers?
I can't understand what pleasure PKers must get out of killing strangers. It's pure, bizarre malice. Some poor f*cker drives past CRP, and a dozen BD jump on him, kill him, and blow up his very expensive car. Now, if it was someone you knew and hated, by all means, but random killings is just... odd. You need your heads looked at :D
Originally posted by ezza
i often hang out in PP2 looking for errant enemy runners as i used to hang around J01 as a merc.
im not sure what you actually saying, no runner can pass the PP without getting killed? and thats ok by me, and your taking about PP1 that aint BD territory k?
That's the answer I expected. You don't seem to get it either. I never saw BDs helping Biotech or ProtoPharm getting labs and factories though they are your allies and it would make much more sense than getting ops for BD. I never saw you selling any drugs, nor robbing or extorting people in Pepper Park, I just saw you shooting on sight. I never saw you saying "give me 10k and I let you pass", I only see "Niiiiibs, you suck". I never saw you making efforts to find agreements with Tsunami to determine the territories and rules for the Pepper Park, so suitors and drug customers could securely pass the Pepper Park. I never saw you publishing any rules. I never saw you having any ideas for BD related events. I never saw you claiming at KK to have own, illegal, BD drugs, I only see PvP related complaints in the forum.
So don't talk about the way a military unit should behave, again - put your own house in order first. You are not a shining example. Kthxbye.
who gives afuck about all that shit, your talking roleplay im talking defending your own territory something you and your shitty former FLR clan could never do
why the hell would i want an agreement woth tsunami, i kill tsunami not negotiate with them
Who gives a fuck about defending your own territory, I am talking about roleplay (so you did, when mentioning the way a military unit should behave), something you and your current clan could never do.
we dont claim to roleplay, but hey if you dont want to defend your own territory then more pk victims for BD
oh and i was a merc remember and i saw the people who used to defend the place, funny saw more 101st defending the base than you guys ever did, i wonder whos benefiting from the merging of the clans, your crappy clan or better clan like 101st
I won't elaborate on your flaming. I guess our definition of what makes a clan "crap" differs.
[i]
I can't understand what pleasure PKers must get out of killing strangers. It's pure, bizarre malice. Some poor f*cker drives past CRP, and a dozen BD jump on him, kill him, and blow up his very expensive car. Now, if it was someone you knew and hated, by all means, but random killings is just... odd. You need your heads looked at :D [/B]
lol there is no malice or anything like that, you play a pker you pk, it dont go no further than that.
you do go gank a player just cos you got problems in the head(well at least i dont) sure theres a few people i proberbly take more pleasure in killing than others but still.
but seeing as im being generalised for the behaviour of other members of my clan maybe i should start spamming the shit on trade and shouting how i pwn crappy mercs etc:rolleyes:
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 14:51
yea it does
he said that ur clan is crap, and u think otherwise
was there any question in this?
i defend my turf, my backyard, our clan defends him self
we dont agree on anything, with anyone, we just go there and act like a mafia, wemaki9ng money for ourselves, better weaponry, better fighting chars, better anything, FOR US..........
if u didnt get that isnt my prob,
but u should be proud of ur clan, that ninja's hack op's and run like hell form the place, and we know its u kuz we see ur underware there left behind all shity and pooped:lol:
did u get the diference?
Originally posted by Promethius
Most of the reason i PK low chars is because they usually have a bigger alt who wants to seek revenge. Thus making a fight. And if they don't usualy they got some bully protector who will come to the newbs rescue. (If the lowby player turns out to be a REAL newb of course i'll lay off them and set them off with some cash)
See - it is this kind of lowbie ganking that gets on my fucking nerves. So what you are saying, kill 'em 1st then say sorry if they don't have an alt? Stop talking out of your fucking arse. :rolleyes: The ONLY reason it is done is so you can feel superior in a game for what you lack outside it. As soon as someone that comes along that can whip your ass, you run a mile.
I am by no means a carebear, but I do not like to see these 'kids' PKing anyone in sight - apart from the fact it serves no purpose, if you go around ganking new runners in the game, you will drive them away.
EDIT--------
@Soapy
"this is a PvP game." Nope - this is an MMORPG with PvP elements. Yes, PvP plays a big part of the game, but what about tradeskillers that can't fight? That's isn't PvP... You want a PvP game, go play CS or Quake. No RP in there...
Originally posted by GT_Rince
See - it is this kind of lowbie ganking that gets on my fucking nerves. So what you are saying, kill 'em 1st then say sorry if they don't have an alt? Stop talking out of your fucking arse. :rolleyes: The ONLY reason it is done is so you can feel superior in a game for what you lack outside it. As oon as someone that comes along that can whip your ass, you run a mile.
I am by no means a carebear, but I do not like to see these 'kids' PKing anyone in sight - apart from the fact it serves no purpose, if you go around ganking new runners in the game, you will drive them away.
i was a noob who got ganked when i started im still here, but maybe im an exception to the rule dunno, but if people like the game they will play it, regardless of being killed(of course being killed 10 times in as many minutes isnt cool)
butanyway
carebear
Originally posted by ezza
butanyway
carebear
Noob :p
If it a faction related killing, then yes - Red is Dead. I am all for that, but there should be a certain level where you think to yourself "This guy is using a Nailgun - I have a capped Libby... Nahhh!" and walk away. Take me on Saturn - I am shooting launchers at MB, next minute, I am dead - and not from a hostile faction either - a neutral one. I had no capped chars. I had been there for 2 days...
And my original point still stands.
You, PvPers, must choose.
EITHER
1. Whine about everyone having their LE in
OR
2. Run around PKing everything in sight without regard for level or RP.
But if you do both, you are a hypocrite, and you will sound like an idiot.
As a parallel, think about man-made stocked lakes. People like to fish, but if they keep fishing and fishing the lake without regard to its population, eventually they wont have any more fish to catch.
So goes the population of LE runners.
PKers have been helped by runners saying "Go ahead and take your LE out first thing." Well that will be coming to an end pretty quickly as well.
The ultimate conclusion of this is that PKers will have to resort to attacking players that are willing and able to fight. ONOZ!!! Now finally PvP will actually be Fighter vs Fighter, not Fighter vs Newb that is Levelling.
strych9, your generalising though, you make it sound like the pkers only go and kill noobs which isnt the case.
not sure i want to get into a argument with you over this as we tend not to get anywhere :lol:
ezza its hard for people not to think that, as every time I've seen people PKing, it has been noobs getting killed. When I'm changing faction, I first go to Proto as it lets me have and easier time picking another faction since they are on better terms with most people, but even when I do that with my 2 non combat characters, who are both low levels still, I was getting constantly ganked by BD runners for no reason, and we are allied factions! The only time I've been really pissed at getting PK'ed was when 5 PE's (2 BD and 3 TG) decided that I was such a huge threat to all of them, and it took them all to kill me:rolleyes:
Originally posted by SypH
ezza its hard for people not to think that, as every time I've seen people PKing, it has been noobs getting killed. When I'm changing faction, I first go to Proto as it lets me have and easier time picking another faction since they are on better terms with most people, but even when I do that with my 2 non combat characters, who are both low levels still, I was getting constantly ganked by BD runners for no reason, and we are allied factions! The only time I've been really pissed at getting PK'ed was when 5 PE's (2 BD and 3 TG) decided that I was such a huge threat to all of them, and it took them all to kill me:rolleyes: if your getting killed on your proto char, its cos some people(not me) concider proto to be carebear faction which is used to save yourself from being killed, so some BD attack protos
Originally posted by Devils Grace
yea it does
he said that ur clan is crap, and u think otherwise
was there any question in this?
i defend my turf, my backyard, our clan defends him self
we dont agree on anything, with anyone, we just go there and act like a mafia, wemaki9ng money for ourselves, better weaponry, better fighting chars, better anything, FOR US..........
if u didnt get that isnt my prob,
but u should be proud of ur clan, that ninja's hack op's and run like hell form the place, and we know its u kuz we see ur underware there left behind all shity and pooped:lol:
did u get the diference?
WTF? DG if you had a brain you'd be dangerous...
Dj
Originally posted by ezza
strych9, your generalising though, you make it sound like the pkers only go and kill noobs which isnt the case.
not sure i want to get into a argument with you over this as we tend not to get anywhere :lol: No ezza, we know its not all of them.
But how many do you think it takes to cause what I say to happen? Word of mouth is petty strong in the game and in the forums.
All it takes is 1 player to kill 1 other newb and the newb to complain for people to know
1. That the player likes to kill noobs
2. That noobs are in danger of being attacked, even if they are noobs
So it doesnt take EVERY PvPer out there PKing noobs to bring this about. Especially when the very FEW PKers out there attack noobs SO OFTEN in game.
Make a new char, leave your LE in, then go out to MB on Saturn and stay in team there for say 2 hours- watch how often the PKers come by and gank, and then listed to how much everyone in the area hates it. You might be suprised.
Originally posted by ezza
if your getting killed on your proto char, its cos some people(not me) concider proto to be carebear faction which is used to save yourself from being killed, so some BD attack protos A PROUD DAY FOR RP!!!!!!
Gee, its not like PP has an epic reward that people want... :rolleyes:
Seriously, do you NOT see how lame stuff like that is ezza?
Its just an excuse for people to ignore RP altogether. Enemies are attacked cause they are enemies. Allies are attacked cause they must have chosen that faction to not be attacked.
WTF?
Why even kill a non claned person just walk up to him and say he need to look on his life and turn it to something good like hate reeza :p
I dont kill unclanned red runners its like killing children in war its not thier fault, its just a person that lives and breathes the air and has no idea what its all about "noob :D".
But once they picked a clan and are a enemy faction they has chosen side and if so they need to die no matter what they are evil and doesnt think like I do.... "no this isnt democratic" Its Neocron a cyberpunk game it should be dirty and some times awful.
If you say thats not RP then go and play sims where killing aint a option.
Originally posted by ezza
if your getting killed on your proto char, its cos some people(not me) concider proto to be carebear faction which is used to save yourself from being killed, so some BD attack protos Well I use them cause it makes changing factions easier since it opens up more options. But regardless, even though Im less than half their level, and a tradeskiller to boot (hell it even says it in my name!) what is the challenge of PKing a low lvl runner who is alone just going about his business. The whole "You might have a high level alt" or " It brings out the higer level runners" is a crock of shite arguement. I dont have any high level alts and I'm sure alot of others dont. These idiots decide to kill people anyways. And when higher level people do arrive, most times the PKers run away because the challenge they were looking for actually arrived. Again a bullshit reason
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 16:54
Originally posted by djskum
WTF? DG if you had a brain you'd be dangerous...
Dj
LOL yea i know:lol:
but i was just repling to him the same way he posted.
he wanted roleplay i gave him mine....mine doesnt have to be equal to the others.....its mine
but i think ur right, i need to say things clear kuz, no one understands sarcasm and....(lakcs of english words)
Originally posted by Strych9
A PROUD DAY FOR RP!!!!!!
Gee, its not like PP has an epic reward that people want... :rolleyes:
Seriously, do you NOT see how lame stuff like that is ezza?
Its just an excuse for people to ignore RP altogether. Enemies are attacked cause they are enemies. Allies are attacked cause they must have chosen that faction to not be attacked.
WTF? i said i dont do it, i kill people who are red to me, yeah it can be lame but so what people play there own way
Originally posted by ezza
i said i dont do it, i kill people who are read to me, yeah it can be lame but so what people play there own way My point in all of this is that those players that play in their own lame way, not you, are the ones that are removing YOUR potential legitimate targets from the pool of runners.
Thats all I am saying.
And when it comes time to place blame for why Neocron has become so carebearish with so many LE runners- the PKers that play in their own lame way will need to have some of the blame placed on their shoulders.
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 17:11
man u gota make up ur mind.
now without flamming
ppl complained about noob ganking, and the pker's told them to put the LE in.
now they do that, and ppl complain theres no one to kill.
but u say that kuz of the pker's killing nibs, now akll the nibs have LE's and the game is carabear, kuz u cant kill no oneo_O
u gota choose a side.....
Originally posted by Devils Grace
man u gota make up ur mind.
now without flamming
ppl complained about noob ganking, and the pker's told them to put the LE in.
now they do that, and ppl complain theres no one to kill.
but u say that kuz of the pker's killing nibs, now akll the nibs have LE's and the game is carabear, kuz u cant kill no oneo_O
u gota choose a side..... My side is chosen, and clear.
1. PKers tell players to put in LE
2. Players put in LE
3. PKers come to forums to whine about so many LE runners
Thats the trend, and in my mind it will only get worse. The game will keep having more and more LE runners now that you cannot put it back in after level 30.
So the PKers that kill the newbs should try and curb their enthusiasm and lay off the newbs.
It looks like a trend that will only grow aswell. You'll have the hardcore PvPers (I consider myself one of those, I'm not saying I'm good at PvP, just that I like it and get involved when I can ;-)). And the not so hardcore who will prolly put an LE in and leave it in as thier options are limited. You can always take your LE out later but you can't put it in again...
I killed a /40 yesterday and even tho he was bragging about killing mercs and then zones into aggies (I just had to kill him) I actually felt a bit guilty. But I can't understand the mentality of the PKer that kills well below his level for no reason. It's fucking sad IMHO. There are players who fight with honour but there are also players who seem to get a kick out of spoiling others enjoyment. I'm not going to name names but there's a certain PE on Saturn (who shows incredable amounts of arogance on these boards) who likes to kill noobs at the bunker. Even tho he recons he's the best PvPer in the whole game!!! So errr, why do you kill n00bs then mate? You get picked on a school? Want some payback? I sugest martial arts. Coz' NC will give you RSI ;-)
Well didn't mean this to be personality assassination but you see my point. I don't understand where people get off on killing well below there lvl. Even in a fair fight they couldn't win. So why bother? Isn't the predictability of the situation boring? "Oh I'll go kill that /30 he's 20 lvls below me, I wonder if he'll win this time? ".
The whole thing smacks of imaturaty and lack of honour and decency.
DjSKum
PS @ DG lol, I never understand what you say ;-) Yeah making a clearly understandable and consise point comes across much better than flaming in "tard-speak" ;-) I know you don't always talk like that ;-)
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 17:38
why?
vet is playing the game the way he wants,
why have to be all honour and decent?
cant ppl play how they fucking want ?
all the nibs have to know is that they can be killed if they remove the LE ( game mechanics that prevents u to engage PvP)
in the days i played pluto, 1st thing i learned there was " watch for megaman"
" mega who " i said (there i was gring out)
whats the big deal
instead of flamming those u play their way, just kuz they dont have the same standards of decenssy and hounor as u, teach the nibs, that pk is a risk, in this game or in real life, or isnt it ?
u can go walking somewhere and a fucktard comes to pulls a gun and kills u right?
havent u been told what to do about that situations?
dont u know certains places in ur town or city, that its a risk to go there ?
its the exact same thing
I disagree. You can play how you want but when that infringes on the way other want to play then your stopping them from playing as they want to play.
And no people can't play how they want if a small minority is there stopping then from doing that.
So 90% of the server shouldn't be able to play the way they want because 10% won't let them?
What you say makes no sense. You want people to play the way they want but they blatantly can't. Why should a few bored capped players kill the game for people who still get enjoyment out of it?
I'm not saying stop them, I just don't understand the mentality of it.
And RL isn't NC now is it? You can't draw comparisons to RL. If someone mugs you then chances are they need money for drugs or something. They have no real choice but to do so. There is no real "need" to be a pain in game but for personal gratification. It's vastly different. And in RL you only have one life and one chance. If you kill in NC your not locked away for 30 years now are you? It's very easy to kill in NC, your just a mouse click away. And there is no comeback, no risk.
All I'm saying is just think about the effect your actions have on others and ultimately the game. And no I'm not a carebear I just like the idea of honour and decency and not fucking up the enjoyment of others for a cheep thrill...
Dj
DJ your a merc, your ment to have honour etc, but BD dont have honour etc were vicious street thugs
were the granny mugging sort:D
You should be drug dealers, not a bunch of mentally deranged mass murders.
Mafia should have more honor than some mercs who kill for money.
Originally posted by maver!ck
You should be drug dealers, not a bunch of mentally deranged mass murders. ok thanks for that...no wait sort your own house out before telling us what to do.
if we wanna play mentally deranged mass murderers then we can, if you dont like it stick you fucking LE back in and go hold hands with your other carebear merc mates
Originally posted by Devils Grace
u can go walking somewhere and a fucktard comes to pulls a gun and kills u right?
havent u been told what to do about that situations?
dont u know certains places in ur town or city, that its a risk to go there ?The point is that the fucktard with a gun wont go complaining to everyone that he has no one to kill. Right?
And thats what I am saying. You go ahead and play the game how you want. Just shut the hell up when you realize that everyone starts using the LE cause you are the resident fucktard.
Ageed? You can PK however much you want, but you wont be suprised or complain when people stop making themselves a target?
Originally posted by ezza
if we wanna play mentally deranged mass murderers then we can, if you dont like it stick you fucking LE back in and go hold hands with your other carebear merc mates
thx, nah, I rather kill you when you try to gank some newbs.
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:03
did u ever stoped to think that their enjoyment is to kill.
and if the game alows it so, why ppl get their game experiece ruined if they know that they can be killed by some fucktard.
its alowed to do so, once again i say, and kk provided u the tool to prevent u not to be killed LE.... simple
if u prevent him to kill, ur ruining him his game, beacuse that what he wants to do.
i see u talking and others to, but when he is at mb, he stays there and i dont see no one goin there to kill him
he even anounces it on trade that he is there, and no one shows.
u dont like his style of play go there and kill him....but u dont dont u?
my freedom ends when ur starts, true.....but if my freedom alows me to do sometin u dont like, and u got the tools to end my freedom why complain to what i do, and fight back or ignore myself by using an LE, simple isnt it
thats why i think ppl should use LE's untill they are ready to fight back, or like me dont mind on dying
Originally posted by maver!ck
thx, nah, I rather kill you when you try to gank some newbs. give it your best shot, why not bring a PPU monk with you make it easy on yourself
My ePenis is bigger than yours!
;)
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:08
Originally posted by Strych9
The point is that the fucktard with a gun wont go complaining to everyone that he has no one to kill. Right?
And thats what I am saying. You go ahead and play the game how you want. Just shut the hell up when you realize that everyone starts using the LE cause you are the resident fucktard.
Ageed? You can PK however much you want, but you wont be suprised or complain when people stop making themselves a target?
if u ever see any threrad of mine, wich i complain or i want, nerf or i want changed sometin, besides the pp guards and ocasionally para, ill give u a rare weapon of ur choosing.
in where did u see me complaing that ppl are using LE's ?
thats veteroxx tha complains not me, i think newbs shoukld wering LE's.....
u were the one that said that u agreed in the begining that ppl should wearing LE's but now u changed ur mind kuz to many ppl uses it
u dont make sence
Originally posted by Devils Grace
if u prevent him to kill, ur ruining him his game, beacuse that what he wants to do.Nah, HE is preventing HIMSELF from killing, and he is ruining his OWN game. Thats the whole point of this thread when I started it.
If the fucktard keeps killing newbs, more and more people will use the LE and he will have no one to kill aside from actually skilled players. ONOZ!!!
Go back and read my analogy about the fishing pond.
Originally posted by SypH
My ePenis is bigger than yours!
;) joo lie!!!!:mad:
Actually BD are shady real estate brokers and drug dealers
Random and rampant murders arent good for business (from an advertising POV)
oh wait you dont RP do you :-).......
Nu-uh! Its true!!
Back on topic for a sec. I would gladly take out my LE if BD people would not kill me and let me carry out my tradeskilling and hunting in peace, but since thats never going to happen you have one less potential target.
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:18
i ve read ur fishing pod analogy, and it makes sence, what is not making sence is what u said in one of ur 1st posts
not quoting u said that in the begining u agreed that ppl should stick the le in, now u say that to many ppl actually use it.....
if he is preventing him self of killing thats his problem and he will have to deal with the consequences, but
one thing u cant acuse him, is that he wont fight higher ranks, kuz that isnt true
and im not defending him, not at all, i dont like him much either, but only kuz his bigger ego..... but if u look for a fight, u will get one with him.
so the pussy are all that complains about him but no one goes actually hunting him down at mb.
How about implying penalties for killing low lvl runners then?
And not just SL loss but somthing that stings
For example:
When killing a runner 15 lvls or more under your lvl u get the impairment of the killed runner, a SL hit, and loss of actual xp.
Doesnt have to be all 3 I guess, but any thinkable combination or other penalties. Just make n00b ganking a little less easy.
LE's were ingame for a long time, to give people that wanna play a non-PVP game, but just love the surroundings/dynamics of the game a chance.
Originally posted by 5150
Actually BD are shady real estate brokers and drug dealers
Random and rampant murders arent good for business (from an advertising POV)
oh wait you dont RP do you :-)....... were also known to be vicious thugs.
you know that guy called Max for the epics, who goes off (according to some of the faction stories) to kill people, well guess what that guys is BD, and holy shit hes a killer:rolleyes:
@KuifJe: no thanks
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:23
Originally posted by SypH
Nu-uh! Its true!!
Back on topic for a sec. I would gladly take out my LE if BD people would not kill me and let me carry out my tradeskilling and hunting in peace, but since thats never going to happen you have one less potential target.
depends on ur faction, and if u want protection, in a roleplay sence just dm anyone in cartel, ask to speak to any hgih menbers,
(me, mayhemmike,zoneseek, w33man, gromeister, blade, twisted, habitat, etc ) and many others or all kuz we dont actually have any rank, kuz we decid all together, and ask for it, and if no one has soemtin against u u will have it;)
just dont talk to me, i might be rank 10 in the clan but i dont have a clue:D
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:30
thats kuz ur a trustable person, and ur opinion counts.....
thats why ur rank 10
its not only to open gr's u know lol:lol:
Originally posted by Devils Grace
thats kuz ur a trustable person, and ur opinion counts.....
thats why ur rank 10
its not only to open gr's u know lol:lol: OMG i can open GR lol, im learning new stuff all the time
Well Im in Proto (for reasons previously explained) and even then BD tried to PK me. I'm currently trying to get my other tradeskiller to Proto for the same reasos, and I know if I even think of taking out my LE the same will happen. For the record it hasnt been your clan thats been the problem (I think I've been killed 3 times by you guys)
wasnt sgt Striker was it?
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:34
haha mocks @ ezza lolzzz
syph whats ur char name anyways?
like i said, just dm me in game, and u will see im not always a prick
Originally posted by ezza
wasnt sgt Striker was it? Nope. He has never pked me. He was actually quite nice to me ongame. We had a little chat about resists while he pked people:D
@Devil. My 2 tradeskiller alts are called Syph [Ress] and Syph [Const]. They arent very good at skilling at the moment, but I'm lvling them to the point were thats all they will be for.
I know you arent a prick DV mate. We used to be in the same clan ffs;)
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 18:45
hahahaha thats was long wayy back
i know who u are, i toght u quit the game since i never saw u again, and after lucius gave me ur apu stuff :P
haha no worries
ill try to play this night hopefully, just dm me when u see me spaming the traderzzzz
Naw I didnt quit, I just got sick of being a monk, so I decided to give you all the crap I hadnt thrown on the floor in P1. I carried on with my tank, El Sid, whoes only real skill was sexing people (got you a few times:p) in the TG canyon. And now I've gone and made a new monk:p
Since this threads opened up into all sorts of RP/non-RP etc - my thoughts :
BD - supposed mafia faction, hate mercs because we know employ some code jockey that used to work for you. Big on drugs and property. Want to be big in prostitution.
CM - supposed mercenary faction, meant to help other factions own OPs. In an ideal sense would be neutral to all factions and availble to the highest bidder... but sadly they've friggen allied us to almost all factions - bigger ball ache for us.
TT - supposed Weapon builder - main goal to be bigger than Biotech.
Saturn version of this :
Mercs own NW of Map
BD own NE of MAP
TT own south of MAp
TT has neutrality agreement with BD
TT is faction ally with Mercs
TT has easy life
BD attacks CM - because we own NW corner and you boys need someone to fight
CM retaliates against BD - we hold our OPs (and no we don't ninja hack them, whilst its mildly amusing to read Zoneseek's bitching threads, the BD vs CM war has been the catalyst for some of the best OP action I've seen in 14 months of NC).
Ideal version of this:
CM only holds fortress OPs around map to use as staging posts. They are available to hire - any faction who wants an OP can purchase us.
BD can squabble with TS/TG and the rest of the factions over OP ownership - hell can hire mercs if needed (tho the ego's of the very few will undoubtedly make this unlikely)
TT fight for ownership of factories with BT - either side helped by Mercs when needed
Nice multi-coloured map, lots of OP wars.
LE needed? Hopefully a lot less if people get their fix at a big 40 v 40 get together... but there always be people with emotional problems who raid VR Aggie Cellars and then cry "I PK anyone, newbs or vets"
/end of rithy's brain dump
Rithy
This whole thread is why i choosed to leave Saturn for my new character.
On pluto, i can choose not to serve an individual - along with my other tradeskiller friends.. Makes it worse for random pkers if they dont have good ties with a Tradeskiller or one of their own they are fuxxored when they need something done.
Pluto != Saturn
metalangel
23-01-04, 00:05
Part of the problem on Saturn, especially for me as an FA, is that some clans from rival factions may for alliances or get along while others don't. So some of FA are allied with 101st and other CM clans, while other FA go around and gank them. As a result, the faction itself isn't working together, and suffers as a whole.
It doesn't help that after a good run of capping some OPs, everyone logs off and TT, who's been waiting patiently all this time, comes back and ninjas them. Or just enlists help from another faction and comes back with a huge force.
Either way, I'm confused and try to stay outta the way :eek:
the problem on saturn is it has a higher player count and many of those players have recentaly moved over from other servers some may be vets who due to not knowing many ppl on saturn chose to leave there le's in untill they can put some resistance back into fighting.
any way maby in the future some more ppl will take there le out once they level in peace.
Well, I'll finnaly put my input into all this.
No, I wasnt beaten up in school or abused by my parents. I had a find life and was average in school.. some people gave me a hard time, I gave other people a hard time.. I was niether a nerd or in the cool crowd, I was in the middle. My parents were fine.
I simply like to fight... every game I get deeply into, theres only one goal: to be the best fighter. When I played Total Annihilation (RTS 10X better then SC but less advertisemnt) I was often in the top 10.. when I played CS, I was always in top 3 in kills on the servers I played on. In NC, I only want to be the best fighter. I dont wanna tradeskill, , I dont wanna be a valubale supporter of the team, I dont wanna chat with you... I want to be the best fighter, period.
To do that, i have to fight ALL the time. I did something that quantum delta and a few others will understand that was painful to me "waste" 25 points in vehcile use on my pe that could have gone to agil to make me run faster or pc/rc to make me shoot faster.
But, I HAD to do it, because its a total pain in the ass running zone after zone with the gr changes and looking for people to pk... There was a time after id really gotten into pking that I only pked high levels... my cut off was like /50 below that I wouldnt kill. But now thats changed... there simply arent enough high level people around. When I first came to Saturn, I literaly drooled... the J's were COVERED in high level non led war bot hunters. The deserts were covered in high level hunters too... I leveled my pe as quickly as i could so I could go pking.
Well, to be perfectly honest, I dunno if I did my job too well or if lots of others started pking at the same time I did, but either way, like wolfs that hunt too well and kill all the deer, The prey began to dwindle... I also during this time relentlessly attacked TH, and then when I started playing with smokey J relentlessly attacked TG. Well, the carebears flooded the forums asking for boosted defences... unfortunetly it happened... You really dont understand how much I miss tech haven... I REALLY miss it... It made xer0 quit NC and it hurt my thoughts toward the game a lot too.
So now, its become harder and harder to find capped players without LEs in. Also KK kept making bad changes and not fixing annoying things fast enough and more people left.... So now its very hard for me to find people to kill.
There was really only one solution: I know on saturn that MOST of the lower levers you see are alts of capped players. I have a bloodlust, I MUST fight, I MUST kill and if their arent enough reds and high levels to kill then I must kill what I can find... theres just no other option. And, it always works. I kill a /20 cm, and bang, out come capped cms for me to kill. I kill a lowbie in aggie sewers, and 5 mins later hi capped alt comes. IF it was like the old days and there were 500 people on most of whom no le and many high leverl, there would be no need for this, but there is.
TBH im not out to ruin your game experience... but lets be honest here.... 90% of the people here care more about their fun then yours... and I care more about my fun then someone ive never met or talked to... so If i have to kill your /20 spy to force you to fight me so I can fight, then so be it... Im sorry if you dont like it.
Hopefully, DoY will be a success, and even if saturn just gets up to 550 people on peek hors there will be no need for me to kill low levels or neutrals, because I will have more then enough tagets, and ill gladly run right by the newbs at bunker to kill the tons of capped people in the J's. but until that happens the only way to draw the capped players out of TG and MB and into the aggie sewers is to bait them, and the bait is the blood of of a lowbie of thier faction.
BTW DJskum, yes as I admitted here I kill newbies for a reason but you are one of the CMs who often witnesses me killing you and your capped buddies while heavily outnumbered.
I also help real new players... I just helped a new player today, I explained good places to level good guns to use how stats worked and bought him a tl 35 shotgun so he could have it ressed and built (He rerally liked the shotguns wether they were the most effective or not, were most fun for him) I also have stoped pking people when ive been directed a few times and they say "hey, im noew to NC, mind not pking me?" and I stop. But thats very rare... the vast majority are clanned or I know they are a high levels alt, so if killing em makes the high levels come, thats what ive gotta do.
BTW, I dont know why its so fun to kill people... It just IS... long ago in NC, I just dueled, op wared or fought people who attacked me, but I made freinds with people who liked to PK, I got into it, and now its just fun as hell...
Originally posted by VetteroX
I have a bloodlust, I MUST fight, I MUST kill
You MUST play Planetside :-)
VetteroX,
I get more fun killing "equal's" in BF 1942 than i ever did when i (*caugh* *caugh*) went down the aggies.. it was no challenge at all, those people can hardly point at me with their weapons.
Therefore i went back to warbot hunting which is more intresting to me - big game hunting... and i'm talking BIG game. I even play "Trophy hunter" at times (www.southlogic.com) and kill everything in sight..
It's more of a challenge when you have a big ass grizzly charging towards you as you reach for your regular high caliber single shot rifle than to PK some unleveled /14 noobs with a raygun.
It's just that - some people have different perceptions of what is the world like in neocron, you like to PK, i like to hunt. If we ever would meet ingame, i'd stealth and run away - my spy wouldnt stand a chanse against much anyway. Prepare to be dissapointed.
I already explained this... I dont wanna do planetside because in NC I have an advantage... and not in the sense of my 67/69 rifle pe killing a 14/20, im talking vs the capped people I have an advantage because ive worked so hard to make a great char.... its kinda like we are all created equal, can choose same char, same imps, same weapons, but ive taken thoes tools and make a better fighter then the vast majority of NC players are able to... thats part of the fun, my personal creation beating their creation... in BF 1942, CS, planetside etc your all the same char.
And again, klling a lobie is a means to an end... getting high ranks to come protect them... if we get a higher population it will no longer be nessesary.
Don't want to rain on your parade, but I've never actually seen you about pking people, and neither has my clan. Probably just chance I suppose. I've only ever seen you standing in plaza 2 getting flamed by other people, and a few times in Neofrag when you've demonstrated an absurdly good resist setup. People I've seen putting their LE in on the server do it more because of a few other TG/BD pkers I've seen, and also the annoying stealth snipers that roam about, killing you while you're hacking in 2 shots.
Then again, I'm not just going to bring my high level characters into the wastelands and stand there waiting to be pked am I? I guess you won't find the high level runners so much because if they are out they are on their way to somewhere (Op wars, caves etc), while the places that we all hang out are much better protected by guards than they used to be. I suppose thats bad for you, but good for people who want more safety to hang out.
I bet I run into you now I've said that, heheh.
Hmmmmm.... Not sure how to reply to that Vet.
Yes I have seen you take a few peeps out. You took me and a fellow tank down the other day. Props to you for that but I like to PK and fight too. But what you say about alts is stupid. How the hell do you know they have a capped alt? Your just playing a numbers game there, and so what if they do? They might just want the fun of lvling again rather than the same old chasing around after a stealthing PE all night ;-) Beleive me it does get very tedious.
And the stats thing. Can I ask how you got your char so good? Was it hours on the test server? Just interested more than anything. TBH for the same reason you like the game I find it a bit irratating. I used to be (rusty as hell now ;-) excellent at Quake, UT, RTCW maybe not quite as good as you but I was always up there on points, top 5 and all that. But I liked the fact that it was purely skill that put me there and not the amount of time I want to spend messing about on the test server with my resists. Maybe I should do it? Maybe I need to tweek my machine and my gfx a little more so I get a half decent FPS? I'm sure there are a few ways I can give myself an easier ride (any advice is always welcome ;-) but I spend all day at work tweeking and optimizing shit. But that the way I play ;-) We're all different.
But the things you say about Capped chars being fewer and farther between. Doesn't that make you think? Why is that? Bordom very probably, LE chips to hunt in peace, alts to make the game more enjoyable. But I bet you a few of those people left because there were fed up of being ganked every 5 mins by some powergamer who spend 100 hrs with a big bag of LoMs on the test server and creates teh Ubar setup. Who he/she know has no chance against because the're casual gamers. He who makes his bed must lie in it. I used to see on faction chat "Strikers at MB" and we'd all go and take you on. Now it's "Strikers at MB", "What a suprise, leave him too it, I spent X hours chasing him round MB last night etc.". It gets boring. High lvl CM's get bored of the same thing everyday (I love a good OP fight tho, that's the best element of PvP IMHO not running around MB trying to kill you night after night ;-), I'm sure it's the same for others. You'll only end up diminishing your own enjoyment of the game because you'll have no-one to fight. You said it yourself! Your cutting off your nose to spite your face....
But hey I'm not paying your subs....
DjSKum
I am not buying what Vett is saying at all. Frankly, it sounds like a lame attempt to justify the fact that he likes to pick on noobs.
It would be different if Vet ACTUALLY WAITED AROUND AND FOUGHT the people that came to defend the noobs- but all too often I have see him flee the scene. So what does that tell us?
He claims he wants to fight the alts, but when the alts show, he isnt there to fight them. Hrmmmmm.
In MOST game... maybe Neocron is different... but in MOST games you cannot hone your combat skills and become a good fighter by picking on noobs. MAYBE Vett has found a way to refine his skills by fighting low level characters... ?????
And the alt idea itself is a joke. I have four chars on Saturn. A melee PE that is near capped, a tank that is almost near capped, a PPU monk and now my droner Spy. All four chars, when capped, wont be geared for 1v1 combat. MAYBE my tank will be up for it (almost unavoidable with a HC tank... hehe) but the other four are not in any way being geared for PKing.
And assuming my tank is geared for PvP, and is capped, why would I bother logging him in to try and fight after one of my other chars is killed when I have no reason to think the PKer will stick around and fight anyway?????'
Now the whole analysis about "my personal creation vs their personal creation"... that makes me feel all swell inside, but if Vett actually DID that... tested his capped creations against other capped creations... and if other PKers actually did that... we wouldnt have everyone using LEs. :rolleyes:
metalangel
23-01-04, 17:05
I don't go for this either, using some poor n00b as bait to attract a high lvl response isn't really the way to go about it.
Original monk
23-01-04, 17:20
barking dogs dont bite: vettero is the barking dog, he's a clown ya see: talking tha L337-talk untill ya woop he's ass bigtime: then he shuts up and sits straight like a nice, gentile dog waiting fo he's cookie :)
and ghard: arent you that noobiemonk in PP 1 always punshing the guards everythime a proto or sumthing walks in ?? (could be wrong on this one: but im a 100% sure some guy on staurn called ghard punshes guards on a daily/hourly basis ... like really annoying)
ontopic: LE's are good if ya start out for the first time ... after ya get em out once ya can never put em in: and thats the way its is :P
its a decision ya make once in youre chars life: LE out means: im ready to PvP and im ready to be PvPed: and believe me i been killed alot in my life :) thats the way how ya learn it :P
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 17:20
its not nice i agree, but trust me when i say
"it Works"
;)
Bob Monkhouse
23-01-04, 17:25
Life is about balancing wants and desires with needs and restrictions. Every ADULT has to make decisions almost EVERY day about money, relationships, work etc. Want a new car? Hmmm, options, options, options........Buy a cheaper car you can comfortably afford, save up a deposit and buy a nicer car in a few months or go mad and get into debt to buy a really good car, knowing you will have to cut back in other areas to afford the repayments.
What my point I hear you cry? Well, everyone assumes that Pkers are immature, have a selfish outlook and are emotionally retarded. I agree that SOME are, in the same way that within any demographic there will be extremes. However, in NC every player has to make "choices" just like the ones outlined above. For every choice there are upsides and downsides.
When someone REMOVES an LE they make a statement to me. I have never heard it expressed in exactly this way before on theses forums, so here goes:
"I HAVE REMOVED MY LE CHIP BECAUSE I WANT TO KILL OTHER PLAYERS, MAYBE NOT NOW, MAYBE NOT EVERY DAY, BUT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE I WANT TO KILL PEOPLE"
Thats what removing an LE means. Dont give me the "but some people just want to be in a clan....." There are ways around not being in a clan if all you want to do is chew the fat with buddies.
No LE in means someone wants to KILL other runners. They CANNOT then complain if they are killed by other runners, no matter what the circumstances are. I include rank 0/1 runners in this. If your LE is out you are fair game.
ALL PvP is Pking IMO. Your goal is to kill the other player. "Random" PKing is a misnomer too. It is only "random" to one party, the victim. I believe "PLAYER HUNTING" is a more accurate term.
Just to be clear, I personally do not spend a lot of time "player hunting". I do however get the occasional urge to go and sweep a few sectors of the enemy. When I do, EVERYONE of my chosen enemy faction that I can kill will die. Very often this is not that many people because I am not the greatest at fighting, but I will take down as many as I can before having to retreat. I personally do not go anywhere near the aggie cellars, because I have no motivation to claim the cellars as home turf. However, if I see enemy runners in the wastes, I WILL attack them if I believe I will win. Sometimes this means letting mobs hold their attention and wound them. If this happens, all the better. You can take your "lame" word and consign it to the "childish lack of understanding of how life works" box. Tactics, tactics, tactics. I want to win. Simple as that. If I dont think I will win, I won't fight.
Now, VetteroX is a professional "Player Hunter". (sorry to single you out Vet, but you are often attacked on these forums, so if people can name you when critisising you, Im going to do it to defend what you do). When I bought NC I was drawn to the "be what you want " idea. Bounty hunter, soldier, drug runner etc. VetteroX has made that choice, to be a feared player hunter. NOONE has the right to criticise him for that choice. It is as valid as becoming the greatest builder or greatest diplomat. He kills "low rank" runners. See above, no LE=I want to kill. You CANNOT have your cake and eat it. Sorry, life isn't like that.( see top of post). Sometimes he will draw out high rankers to test his skills on. NOONE can question whether this is his intention or not. His motivations are HIS business, noone else's. Sometimes he will kill the high rankers who appear. ( I have seen him do this a few times, occassionally I have been on the recieving end). Sometimes he will make a decision to withdraw because the odds are no longer in his favour. His job is player hunting and fighting. Noone has ever proved what a great warrior they are by needlessly dying, so he moves away when appropriate. Good for him I say.
Finally, let me move onto the real thrust of this thread. LE use is good for the game. (I dont completely agree with Vet ;) ) Yes, I really believe that allowing players to go about their business without fear of dying is a GOOD thing for keeping players involved in NC. At some point, the majority WILL remove them, because they will want to kill other runners. The problem is not Player hunters moaning about LE users. The problem is the holier than thou attitude of the anti brigade, who convince people that they should be able to remove their LEs and not be fair game for anyone to kill. This attitude is what REALLY spoils the party.
My advice to all new players is the same- "KEEP YOU LE IN UNTIL YOU DONT MIND DYING- A LOT"
Devils Grace
23-01-04, 17:38
Originally posted by Original monk
[B]
and ghard: arent you that noobiemonk in PP 1 always punshing the guards everythime a proto or sumthing walks in ?? (could be wrong on this one: but im a 100% sure some guy on staurn called ghard punshes guards on a daily/hourly basis ... like really annoying)
yes he is but his days, and some others to are over...
now the pussys will either fight or as i excpect some to do, get the hell out of there, kuz the punching guards days are over;)
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
When someone REMOVES an LE they make a statement to me. I have never heard it expressed in exactly this way before on theses forums, so here goes:
"I HAVE REMOVED MY LE CHIP BECAUSE I WANT TO KILL OTHER PLAYERS, MAYBE NOT NOW, MAYBE NOT EVERY DAY, BUT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE I WANT TO KILL PEOPLE"
Thats what removing an LE means. Dont give me the "but some people just want to be in a clan....." There are ways around not being in a clan if all you want to do is chew the fat with buddies.
No LE in means someone wants to KILL other runners. They CANNOT then complain if they are killed by other runners, no matter what the circumstances are. I include rank 0/1 runners in this. If your LE is out you are fair game.
ALL PvP is Pking IMO. Your goal is to kill the other player. "Random" PKing is a misnomer too. It is only "random" to one party, the victim. I believe "PLAYER HUNTING" is a more accurate term.
Just to be clear, I personally do not spend a lot of time "player hunting". I do however get the occasional urge to go and sweep a few sectors of the enemy. When I do, EVERYONE of my chosen enemy faction that I can kill will die. Very often this is not that many people because I am not the greatest at fighting, but I will take down as many as I can before having to retreat. I personally do not go anywhere near the aggie cellars, because I have no motivation to claim the cellars as home turf. However, if I see enemy runners in the wastes, I WILL attack them if I believe I will win. Sometimes this means letting mobs hold their attention and wound them. If this happens, all the better. You can take your "lame" word and consign it to the "childish lack of understanding of how life works" box. Tactics, tactics, tactics. I want to win. Simple as that. If I dont think I will win, I won't fight.
Now, VetteroX is a professional "Player Hunter". (sorry to single you out Vet, but you are often attacked on these forums, so if people can name you when critisising you, Im going to do it to defend what you do). When I bought NC I was drawn to the "be what you want " idea. Bounty hunter, soldier, drug runner etc. VetteroX has made that choice, to be a feared player hunter. NOONE has the right to criticise him for that choice. It is as valid as becoming the greatest builder or greatest diplomat. He kills "low rank" runners. See above, no LE=I want to kill. You CANNOT have your cake and eat it. Sorry, life isn't like that.( see top of post). Sometimes he will draw out high rankers to test his skills on. NOONE can question whether this is his intention or not. His motivations are HIS business, noone else's. Sometimes he will kill the high rankers who appear. ( I have seen him do this a few times, occassionally I have been on the recieving end). Sometimes he will make a decision to withdraw because the odds are no longer in his favour. His job is player hunting and fighting. Noone has ever proved what a great warrior they are by needlessly dying, so he moves away when appropriate. Good for him I say. Everything you say above is 100% correct with no exception if not for the RP aspect of this game. That doesnt invalidate what you say, but it does lessen the overall truth.
I say that because while the LE can be seen as a simple PvP switch, when you incorporate RP, in is a little different. With RP involved, the lack of a LE should be "If you have a reason to kill me, then I think you should be able to attack me" rather than "Please attack me at will."
Its about responsibility for ones in game actions, and having those actions be consistent with the role you chose to play.
Now if they just allowed non-LE runners to share apartments and cabs, then at that point NO ONE can EVER complain about PKing again. Then, and only then, will the LE be a pure PvP switch.
After having said that, let me say I would love to see that happen (LE players be able to share apts and cabs). Then removing the LE would be a clear statement.
But as it is now, a pure tradeskilling clan would have to go through a LOT of extra trouble to exist with their LEs in.
Let me add this in a separate post:
A PKer wanting to just PK all the time does not remove the idea that the PKer should be aware of the consequences of their actions to the game in general. And thats what this thread was about.
EVEN IF the low level runner shouldn't whine when some capped PKer runs around and kills them in the middle of hunting mobs... the fact remains that most of the server, "carebear" or not, thinks that attacking low level runners is a lame thing to do. And no matter how "pure" the intent of the PKer is to just have some simple fun... if they chose to do that via lame methods, then they will always be villianified.
Right now paraspam is lame. A player could easily make a PPU, and just run around to where players are levelling and paraspam everyone as they fight WBs or Grims or whatever. The PPU can paraspam the caves and graves... and the PPU can have simple fun doing it. But that doesnt mean that no one "has the right" to criticize that player for being a general asshole in game.
So yes, people "have the right" to criticize whoever they want. But that aside- its the players CHOICE to have fun via lame tactics that gets them in trouble with other players.
No one makes Vett or anyone else attack players that have no chance to defend themselves, regardless of the lack of LE. That is a choice the player makes, and one they have to live with... even if the reactions to that choice might not be totally rational.
Bob Monkhouse
23-01-04, 18:11
I am opposed to LE "clans" which is effectively what appt/cabinet sharing for LE users would mean.
In purely RP terms, a clan is not merely an group of friends united by a common goal, be it combat or tradeskilling. It is a facility offered by factions in return for the support of the factions goals by the clan. A clan is supposed to exist to further the aims of the faction, and the epic runs make it clear that the majority of factions include killing enemy runners as a vital part of their operation.
Not just anyone can start a clan. Factions dictate that only someone who has proven their worth to the faction by killing for the faction can buy a clan key and found a clan. (NEXT is the only exeption to this with no killing of other players involved.) The epics are actually pretty gritty in content terms. You get a real sense that the factions are greedy, murderous and treacherous. Where does the concept of an LE "clan" fit into this? Shared appts and cabs are a PRIVILEGE extended to those willing to commit heinous acts to further their Factions interests. Factions can get items researched and built by anyone, but they need runners to do their dirty work.
Be careful when defining RP. One man's meat is another man's poison. I agree that more RP content would be great in NC. However, I am also prepared to see RP even where none is intended. I believe even those who say "RP! Bullshit I just wanna shoot stuff" are fulfiling a role in NC, planned or not.
EDIT. People have the right to criticise others for their actions. My point is that you cannot criticise the CHOICE to be a player hunter. That is as valid a role in NC as any other. People DON'T just criticise Vet and people like him for WHAT they do ingame. They attempt to invalidate the whole concept of BEING a player hunter (Pker whatever you want to call it). I dislike people trying to tell others what is or is not the correct spirit to play NC in. And believe me, plenty of people do this.
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
I am opposed to LE "clans" which is effectively what appt/cabinet sharing for LE users would mean.
In purely RP terms, a clan is not merely an group of friends united by a common goal, be it combat or tradeskilling. It is a facility offered by factions in return for the support of the factions goals by the clan. A clan is supposed to exist to further the aims of the faction, and the epic runs make it clear that the majority of factions include killing enemy runners as a vital part of their operation.
Not just anyone can start a clan. Factions dictate that only someone who has proven their worth to the faction by killing for the faction can buy a clan key and found a clan. (NEXT is the only exeption to this with no killing of other players involved.) The epics are actually pretty gritty in content terms. You get a real sense that the factions are greedy, murderous and treacherous. Where does the concept of an LE "clan" fit into this? Shared appts and cabs are a PRIVILEGE extended to those willing to commit heinous acts to further their Factions interests. Factions can get items researched and built by anyone, but they need runners to do their dirty work.That sounds a bit silly to me- the ability to share a cabinet in your apartment is a priviledge?????? I see NO justification for that.
And I am not talking about a "LE clan." Never suggested that. Just that if a group of LE runners want to share resources, they should be able to. Considering they can always just trade back and forth, why stop them from using cabinets????
This is nothing new- people have been asking for this (clan or no clan) FOREVER.
Instead the privvie should be the ability to possess and profit off of Ops, and to participate in clan wars. Maybe clans need more perks, but a runner should be allowed to share a cabinet in their apartment with another runner no matter what, clan or no clan.
Its okay though, we have sort of a workaround coming with the new apt vendors (buy apt,only giveout name of it to your buddies, set all prices for 1c... almost just like a clan apt).
metalangel
23-01-04, 18:28
Well said. If it really is true that the LE no longer affects how fast you level, than I suppose there isn't really any excuse to take it out and then complain.
But the question is, where would you draw the line between pking (or hunting as you put it) and griefing?
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
EDIT. People have the right to criticise others for their actions. My point is that you cannot criticise the CHOICE to be a player hunter.And when most people criticize Vett, they dont criticize his choice of role, but how he fulfills that role.
Nothing about being a "player hunter" mandates that you kill lower level runners.
Its about logical consistency. His excuse is that people have alts, and thats why he does it. The idea of alt chars is NOT a RP idea... its not IC, its PURELY 100% OOC. Within the game, alts are entirely different people.
Now since I said this, he can come back and say that IC, he kills the runners to bring out their "friends"... which is fine as long as he knows they have friends. Only attacking CLANNED runners, for example, would add legitimacy to his role, in the fact that if they are in a clan, they must have at least one other friend.
That is as valid a role in NC as any other. People DON'T just criticise Vet and people like him for WHAT they do ingame. They attempt to invalidate the whole concept of BEING a player hunter (Pker whatever you want to call it). I dislike people trying to tell others what is or is not the correct spirit to play NC in. And believe me, plenty of people do this. See what I say above.
It sounds like you tie the role with how someone acts in that role. The two are not the same. Not every single PKer gets complained about in game and in the forums. So its not like people dont like the role... its the player and how they act in the role that people complain about.
This game has seen TONS and TONS of players that are hellbent to show just how badass they are when it comes to killing other players. Only a select few of them chose to pick on low level runners and then brag about it in the forums.
Bob Monkhouse
23-01-04, 18:33
Yes, its a PRIVILEGE to share cabinets. There is a definate clear line between LE users and nonLEd runners. The ability to share resources easily between runners is reserved for those who commit themselves to supporting their faction by forming a clan. Forget the actual mechanics of this differential. Perhaps there are no Mr Minit stores in NC to get keys cut. The fact is that easy resource sharing is a benefit reserved for clans.
The bottom line is that for NC to work overall it needs PvP. RP is driven by drama, and drama is driven by conflict. Since there are no real NPC enemies which threaten NC, the conflict exists mainly between runners of opposing factions. LE users can fulfil a niche within the overall picture, but the bottom line is that people are encouraged to eventually remove their LE if they want the full access to certain benefits, cabinet sharing being one, an extra free brain slot being another.
Risk vs reward. This goes back to my original point. Life is about making intelligent reasoned choices. You need to weigh up potential costs and benefits. ATM cabinet sharing is one of those benefits that you need to weigh up when deciding whether to remove an LE or not. An LE has downsides to it, and IMO it NEEDS them.
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
Yes, its a PRIVILEGE to share cabinets. There is a definate clear line between LE users and nonLEd runners. The ability to share resources easily between runners is reserved for those who commit themselves to supporting their faction by forming a clan. Forget the actual mechanics of this differential. Perhaps there are no Mr Minit stores in NC to get keys cut. The fact is that easy resource sharing is a benefit reserved for clans.That still makes NO sense WHATSOEVER that in order to share a cabinet, you must be in a clan. And remember, not every clan MEMBER has done the epic. Only the starter of the clan. So you can drop the whole "You have to EARN the ability to use cabs by doing dirty work for your faction." You can have a zero factional sympathy and still be in a clan.
The bottom line is that for NC to work overall it needs PvP. RP is driven by drama, and drama is driven by conflict. Since there are no real NPC enemies which threaten NC, the conflict exists mainly between runners of opposing factions. LE users can fulfil a niche within the overall picture, but the bottom line is that people are encouraged to eventually remove their LE if they want the full access to certain benefits, cabinet sharing being one, an extra free brain slot being another.
Risk vs reward. This goes back to my original point. Life is about making intelligent reasoned choices. You need to weigh up potential costs and benefits. ATM cabinet sharing is one of those benefits that you need to weigh up when deciding whether to remove an LE or not. An LE has downsides to it, and IMO it NEEDS them. Well first of all, my original point in this post was that yes, we need runners without LEs. And if PKers keep terrorizing players that are of a low level and unable to defned themselves, right or wrong, we will have far fewer non-LE runners in the game.
Think about the change in the next patch. Once your LE is out after level 30, cant go back in. So given the fact that at level 30 you have NO chance to defend yourself vs a capped PKer, how many people will now remove their LEs at all before they cap or get near capped? Fewer and fewer.
That is why I started this thread. If PKers would leave the noobs alone, then maybe they would be more apt to remove their LE.
Second of all, like I said above in this post and then in the previous post- I think it makes no sense that runners have to form a clan to be able to share resources. Its only a minor inconvenience though- if you think runners can share stuff without a LE then you are sadly mistaken. It happens quite easily at this point- allowing all runners to have communal apartments would only make the game make a lot more sense.
The real downside to not having in an LE is the inability to kill other players, the inability to own ops, the inability to be healed by non-LE users, and the loss of the brain slot. The brain slot being the biggie.
I can tell you right now, the noob PKing has caused one less target to be available. I rerolled my Spy to a droner. I will keep his LE in til capped, then remove it and he will be a constructor/droner. I will add him to the clan once he is capped, and then you will likely never see him anywhere again except building for people or fighting in an op war. He will never be available to the Pker crowd to kill in an unfair fight. Why? Cause I cant level (especially with a droner) in the decent levelling spots due to the fact that I will keep dying over and over to PKers.
Not bitter about it. I am SLIGHTLY inconvenienced about not being able to shar cabs, but I have a level 3 plaza apt filled with everything I will ever need. The bigger hassle is the brain slot to be honest.
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
Yes, its a PRIVILEGE to share cabinets. There is a definate clear line between LE users and nonLEd runners. The ability to share resources easily between runners is reserved for those who commit themselves to supporting their faction by forming a clan. Forget the actual mechanics of this differential. Perhaps there are no Mr Minit stores in NC to get keys cut. The fact is that easy resource sharing is a benefit reserved for clans.
The bottom line is that for NC to work overall it needs PvP. RP is driven by drama, and drama is driven by conflict. Since there are no real NPC enemies which threaten NC, the conflict exists mainly between runners of opposing factions. LE users can fulfil a niche within the overall picture, but the bottom line is that people are encouraged to eventually remove their LE if they want the full access to certain benefits, cabinet sharing being one, an extra free brain slot being another.
Risk vs reward. This goes back to my original point. Life is about making intelligent reasoned choices. You need to weigh up potential costs and benefits. ATM cabinet sharing is one of those benefits that you need to weigh up when deciding whether to remove an LE or not. An LE has downsides to it, and IMO it NEEDS them.
So essentially what you're saying is a LE'd runner can have friends BUT he can't share with his friends?
LE people can be just as usefull to their faction as they are without LE, if they hunt mobs they get money rewards...I wonder where that money comes from but I'm gambling it some sort of imaginary faction fund. So thats usefull for their faction.
Another thing, you pointed out earlier you won't start a fight you're not sure of winning. So I'm guessing you're roleplaying the coward in this game, we need those as well to feel good about ourselves I guess. You brush it away as tactics, I just call it lame and typical. What tactics do you need to sit back and wait for the opponent to be bashed to an inch of his life by a Grim Chaser or w/e and then finish him of?
U dragged RL into this with some story about choices to make. Lets drag RL into this again...why not act with the common decency as you would IRL? Or do you go around taking candy from babies as well, coz you know they wont smack you too hard in the face?
This whole LE/PK'ing discussion has been going forever and won't be over till they introduce seperate hunting zones for mobs and players. PK is part of the game and I dont have a problem with that since I use my LE till I have the chance to put up a proper fight. LE's have downsides, which is good IMO, but some rights should be universal.
Bob Monkhouse
23-01-04, 22:48
I used a RL analogy about MAKING ADULT CHOICES. I believe LE users SHOULD NOT have shared cabinets, because ultimately the LE user MUST be a minority for NC to work on any reasonable level. The one concession to LE users I would make is to allow the LE to be a hardwired chip that does not take up a brain slot, thus allowing those who never want to partake of PvP to fully develop their character.
Non LE people outside clans have no shared cabinets either. Again, I think this is fair. Stop asking for the world to be delivered to your doorstep for free. Start to develop a more adult attitude where everything has costs and benefits.
I say it again:- Remove your LE and you are telling the world you want to KILL other players. Not "partake in PvP"- you can go to NF for that. You SPECIFICALLY want the opportunity to kill another runner. Once you remove an LE, you want to kill, and can therefore not expect not to be killed. You CANNOT ask for the right to determine where, when and by whom you will be attacked. That is the risk EVERY player takes when they remove an LE.
So, I am a coward for not attacking if I don't think I will win? Well, the opposite of a coward must be a retarded fool. Please dont try to tell me you go around looking for situations where you will lose and engage the enemy. If you do, you are just a fucking idiot, pardon my french.
Yes, if neccessary I will use mobs to gain an advantage. I clearly approach combat from a different direction to you. I aim to win. I try to choose the time, place and circumstances to ensure victory. If you don't, tough, grow up and come and rejoin the real world when you have lost or broken your rose tinted spectacles. My original post makes it pretty clear what I think of your "lame" word. It is an excuse. I have cut and pasted a reply I gave to someone questioning the ethics of ganking whilst hunting a few months ago, here it is:
I have already stated on these forums that whilst I respect other peoples morals or honour system, I personally have a simple philosophy- win the battle. I spend my early adult years as a member of HM Forces, and I remember a lecture we were given as young officer cadets on new developments in so called non lethal weapon systems. These included a chemical to turn road surfaces into a sticky glue, and new EM weapons that destroy electronics. Our reaction was to say " Thats a great idea, if we immobilise enemy armour and fry their electronics we can attack from the air with impunity and have a far better chance of destroying that unit's threat capability permanently." Our instructors looked on in undisguised pleasure, because they realised we had "GOT THE POINT". War is about winning. Thats it, no excuses, no apologies, no rationalisations are needed. Unless you LOSE.
In Neocron, if you dont like a tactic and think it is "lame" (I HATE that word, it is utterly meaningless) DONT DO IT YOURSELF. That way, YOUR version of honour or decency is kept intact. It is unreasonable to expect others to conform to your ideals, both in RL and in video games.
I have been on the recieving end of this tactic, my droner was effectively unable to use the graves to level for about a week due to TG monks who were also leveling there and didnt want to share the space. It was an inconvenience for me, but the main thing is that by preventing me from leveling, they kept their faction safe from high level drones for a considerable period. It MADE SENSE to attack me as I leveled. I would have considered it strange if they had not.
NC is supposed to be a virtual world. Trying to impose artificial restrictions like "you should not attack faction enemies in high rank levelling areas" is not only arrogant, it helps to erode the suspension of disbelief and imo HARMS roleplay.
Rant off
So there you have it. BTW, if you are not educated enough to tell the difference between an analogy to RL and direct correlation between RL moral attitudes and in game actions that isn't my problem, its yours:lol:
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
I used a RL analogy about MAKING ADULT CHOICES. I believe LE users SHOULD NOT have shared cabinets, because ultimately the LE user MUST be a minority for NC to work on any reasonable level. The one concession to LE users I would make is to allow the LE to be a hardwired chip that does not take up a brain slot, thus allowing those who never want to partake of PvP to fully develop their character.So in your mind, not sharing cabinets (which is pretty easily avoided) is a bigger punishment than a brain slot (no way around that)? That is insane. You give LE users 4 brain slots, and you will see a hell of a lot more LE users on the server.
Cabinets are not what will make LE users a minority. You want them to be a minority, PKers (oh sorrry, "player hunters") should stop killing runners while they are noobs and let them get a feel for the game first.
And a lot of LE users DO... let me repeat DO want to partake in PvP. They just dont want to get ganked by a capped runner while they are levelling. Thats not PvP. Thats more like PvM for the capped runner.
So stop thinking that everyone that uses the LE wants to totally avoid PvP as thats not the case. Its the rediculous actions of a small group of PKers that have driven people that would otherwise enjoy PvP to have to use the LE just to be able to efficiently use their time while in game.
Mighty Max
23-01-04, 23:21
Once you remove an LE, you want to kill, and can therefore not expect not to be killed.
Unfortunally that is not true.
There are several reasons to remove the LE.
- to PvP like mentioned
- to be able to do EPICs
- to get buffs
- to research/build LEs for PSI PA's
- to be able to organize a group as a clan. Which itself has different reasons:
* show to outsiders that clan members belong together
* have a chat channel together (dont come with buddy-chat since you know that you use that for other things...)
* share an app, even if not the owner is online.
Let me show why i removed LE on some chars:
- All my tradeskillers - to share app
- My main PvM char: to do epic, now back LE'd
- all other chars: still LE'd
:edit: And yes, i dislike the upcoming -30 restriction to implant LE, since i will no longer be able to do EPICs (btw, never killed other players for them but my own chars)
I spend most of my time now chasing Pk'rs around MB and J_01, i was up until 2am last night doing it before finally getting bored and logging.
I dont mind it too much when they do it the proper way instead of turning up in Rhino's and dont actually fight.
My tanks LE came out as soon as i got ingame on the first day of Retail in the uk, but i leveled my PE to rank 60 before i took it out. Now the only character that still has his LE is my lvl22 rifle spy.
blumblumshub
05-02-04, 19:43
Nothing at all new seems to be offered here that wasn't offered 12, 18 or even 24 months ago, so I just figure I'll go back to just playing the game and let others worry about crying to Mother every time something doesn't suit them.
If you want to PK then PK, if you want to keep the LE in then do that. If you want to run round without your LE in then expect to be PK'd, it's not a secret. I do feel sorry for people new to the game that are a little unseasoned though.
Personally I find it just too annoying so my LE is staying in now. If that means I'm a ****** carebear then paint a heart on my tummy and bend me over, that's what I say!
Blum
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