View Full Version : Holy Heal - Problems with it
Ok this is something that really botheres me when it comes to balance in this game. Remember way back when shelters and deflectors used to be normal? as in when a monk casted them on you it was just as effective as on themselves? ok it got everyone upset but we all got used to it by now and have adapted to it well, no one is bothered by it at all anymore.
But now we come up against another problem the holy heal, this is no saying anything about nerfing it for PPU's, as everyone knows they are and SHOULD be the class that has the best defense, are we agreed?
But its the PPU's who have this defense, NOT the other people like tanks/pe's/spys or apu's with them, what I mean is if you got a 2 man team, doesn't matter what sort of team, but that PPU buffs them, ok foriegn cast sheilds are fine, but when your fighting said people, it doesn't matter what DMG you do to that enemy, a Holy Heal with pop them back to full health in a matter of seconds, you could have them at almost death's door, yet they WILL survive with a holy heal on them.
Example:
Last night was great fun, played on saturn and was defending TG canyon from a raid by TT, loved it all except right up untill the end "which was about 45mins into it" where i was for the 4th time driving my rhino tank into grant mine, now lets put this into perspective, it was 3 ppu's and 2 tank's, at least 5 times a tank went down to almost zero health from the rhino shooting it, yet a ppu comes up and bang he doesn't die, no in fact he just stands there soaking up the dmg and firing back, hmm hang on, a rhino tank shooting a normal gen tank, and the gen tank is winning? an armored rhino tank vs a gen tank, a human being.
In the end i gave up, it was pointless and drove back to TG and put the rhino away, while it was still fun and we had a great laugh with some of the TT too, it was stupid to say the least in the end, a draw if you will.
What the purpose on this thread is to highlight the fact a rhino tank can't outdmg a holy heal, "what a min you say, its not meant to!" ah but i say it is on others, here is my opinion, holy heal, in fact all heals should be like shelters and deflectors, foriegn casted are less powerful, maybe as much as 50% less powerful.
That way a Monk "PPU" is not nerfed at all, yet anyone else that has a PPU up their arse are not going to have it so easy, it will mean a holy heal might not save them at all, that a rhino tank will hit for 29dmg and the holy heal won't heal for 44dmg, see what i mean?
So I think a heal should be a foriegn cast type of spell on others = less powerful "50%" or something like that, KK should test something like this on test server to see how it goes.
Richard Slade
20-01-04, 11:20
We're all aware of this since...
Always.
And KK too
Since we whine about it
And always have
However they dunn do jack shite bout it..
And that's the reason why many of us quit
Or just dunn go into PvP anymore.
I don't know, but a single person (or two) should not be able to kill a PPUed runner according to me... Only thing is if you are an APU and manages to sneak up an antibuff and surprise the runner, then HL spam him.
Just as I got owned big time (both on my APU and tank) by an APU with a PPU (didn't see the PPU when I wanted to retailiate with my tank lol, figures how much they must have laughed at me). Then of course I realized I had antibuff which I could have sneaked up with... (/me is APU noob since 3 days :p)
EDIT: And all this "PPUed runner should not be killed" stuff does of course contribute to the whole whining situation... I don't have a problem with it atm however, since I'm learning that antibuff is quite good once you learn how to use it. Also, a runner without shields don't survive a HL spamming APU, even with holy heal on.
At least not when I tested with my APU.. but I might be crazy as well :p
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
Example:
Last night was great fun, played on saturn and was defending TG canyon from a raid by TT, loved it all except right up untill the end "which was about 45mins into it" where i was for the 4th time driving my rhino tank into grant mine, now lets put this into perspective, it was 3 ppu's and 2 tank's, at least 5 times a tank went down to almost zero health from the rhino shooting it, yet a ppu comes up and bang he doesn't die, no in fact he just stands there soaking up the dmg and firing back, hmm hang on, a rhino tank shooting a normal gen tank, and the gen tank is winning? an armored rhino tank vs a gen tank, a human being.
.
Yep its was great fun thanks for putting up a fight. I Forgot to bring an Anti Viechle launcher...was trying to hit you with a moonie.
BTW its not that you get a Gen-tank down to almost 0 hp its the gen-tank knowing when to shout for a Heal and withdraw with enough health to reach the PPU...and the PPU doing a good job in doing it in the nick of time.
Codename (PPU) Cracked me up when he was chasing you round and round in your rhino tank shout "STOP IN THE NAME OF THE LAW !!!" for 15 mins
And when i (as my Tank) Healed Gestra while he was rezzing while the rhino was shooting the hell out of him..That Really upset one of your Rhino Drivers.
Must admit it was a fun fight. Thanks again
And Dont Mess (Your dead in the underground ...you logged as soon as we hacked the OP but your were not quick enough) Better bring a PPU to rezz ya man. *cough* coward *cough* and thanks for all the turrets you dropped they helpped a lot
:lol:
As for the Heal stuff....Dont nurf Holyheal....you need a PPU Heal in choas caves to save your ass there not just for combat remember. 8| A holyheal is not just for christmas its for Life :D
Needing holy heal as it is now because of chaos caves is definetly not an valid argument. KK changed the mob strenght when they introduced the reduction on forein casts, they can do it again.
Like Richard mentioned, the holy heal problem is know since forever, yet any idea about reducing it was always seen as PPU nerf :(
:/
im missing all the damn fun!!!!
hate it for your all when i get back... thats another rhino and another ppu you will have to deal with
no i think some of you maybe skipped my post, i know it was kinda long but, this is NO WAY a PPU nerf, a PPU will stay as is, but its making holy heal foriegn cast less effective which is whats needed, and its not just rhinos, but you can take anyone down to almost zero hp and a holy heal will make your efforts worthless, it needs sorting out, there is no reaosn why KK can't change holy heal for this and make mobs adjusted for it.
I'd love to see this. I'd love Holy Heal to be nerfed all round, but I can live with foreign cast nerf only. :p
@phunqe: If 2 people aren't supposed to kill a single person buffed by a PPU then how are PPUs ever going to be balanced? If 2 people can't kill a PPU, and 2 people can't kill a runner with PPU buffs, how is anyone supposed to ever win a fight?
Lifewaster
20-01-04, 14:09
Last night was great fun, played on saturn and was defending TG canyon from a raid by TT, loved it all except right up untill the end "which was about 45mins into it" where i was for the 4th time driving my rhino tank into grant mine, now lets put this into perspective, it was 3 ppu's and 2 tank's, at least 5 times a tank went down to almost zero health from the rhino shooting it, yet a ppu comes up and bang he doesn't die, no in fact he just stands there soaking up the dmg and firing back, hmm hang on, a rhino tank shooting a normal gen tank, and the gen tank is winning?
You are complaining that one rhino gunner doesnt beat 5 ppl when 2 of them are tanks and 3 are ppus ?
You want the game to turn into rhinocron ?
If I wanted a game where everyone needs to be in a tank vehicle to compete I'd play Panzer commander or something.
Shadow Dancer
20-01-04, 14:20
^^ rofl
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
no i think some of you maybe skipped my post, i know it was kinda long but, this is NO WAY a PPU nerf, a PPU will stay as is, but its making holy heal foriegn cast less effective which is whats needed, and its not just rhinos, but you can take anyone down to almost zero hp and a holy heal will make your efforts worthless, it needs sorting out, there is no reaosn why KK can't change holy heal for this and make mobs adjusted for it.
Some ppus will consider it a nerf Anima.
Personally I do think ppus bestow too much defense upon other people. When I say defense, i'm including holy heal as well as TEH shelter. But KK is taking forever. I'm starting to think that they think ppus and what they can do are 100% fine. :rolleyes:
Anyways, the pvm arguement isn't valid. As of now, I can have a ppu buffing me and just stand in front an army of mobs just clicking away. PvM with a ppu should pose SOME sort of challenge.
Originally posted by Lifewaster
You want the game to turn into rhinocron ?
If I wanted a game where everyone needs to be in a tank vehicle to compete I'd play Panzer commander or something.
Er, yes. What's the point in having a huge great tank if it can't even kill a single person?
Lifewaster
20-01-04, 14:34
Originally posted by Scikar
Er, yes. What's the point in having a huge great tank if it can't even kill a single person?
Well , first of all the complaint was that he couldnt kill a tank who was teamed with 3 ppus , and another tank....not that he cant kill a single person.
Second, the rhino = immune to shock.
Third , rhino has a load of armor protecting him from the people he is fighting against.
I notice he didnt die himself ? Despite being up against 2 tanks and 3 ppus , thats a pretty nice feat in itself.
Seems to me thats quite enough of a bonus for having it.
Lifewaster, you seem to forget that these 2 tanks forgot their antivehicle-weapons. If you use proper weapons against a rhino, it goes down pretty quick.
The only reason he didn't die is because:
1) There were no APUs to HL his rhino
and
2) His opponents weren't organised enough to get an anti-vehicle rocket launcher out. 8 AV rockets are enough to kill a Rhino, IIRC.
Just think for a second. It's a TANK ffs, it's supposed to be a powerful weapon, not a big brick that can't kill anything and just gets to cruise around the battlefield doing nothing while people shoot it.
Erm, PPU can't die to a rhino while buffed that is true but.. wtf is the PPU going to do? They can't hurt a Rhino. Para, Holy Damage boost and Soul clusters all do nothing to a rhino. The Driver/passengers can hop out and attack then hop back in if para'ed or damage boosted.
It's like a knat farting in a hurricane.
Simple. You kill the PPU's friends and before you counter, the PPU has to be on them all the time to protect them. They do eventually die. I've had a Rhino hold off against 8 people with PPU's on thier sides and won (and I say 'I' I mean the Rhino team).
1) There were no APUs to HL his rhino
I find that HL does dick to a Rhino most of the time. There are certain APU's that can hurt with it, but it is not the spell that can hurt a Rhino easy (practise with your spells).
Anti-tank guns now seriously hurt and you have to keep moving to counter them. Others are combat Trikes, Combat hovertech, Gattling turrets.
a rhino gun can kill a shelter/deflectord+holy heal tank. The rhino does hit harder than that heal can heal people. Its just a matter of hitting the target enough times before he runs in cover to heal up.
If I can take down a ppu with my reveler gun, a rhino certainly can do that too.
And as a sidenote, hope tg aint to unhappy with the TT driveby shootings. Were just finding it so fun driving around in our jeeps and tanks. Mainly cause its a mixacron experience that everyone is looking for in some way nowdays :)
Originally posted by Scikar
2) His opponents weren't organised enough to get an anti-vehicle rocket launcher out. 8 AV rockets are enough to kill a Rhino, IIRC.
Well excuse me for not being Uber Ready to OWNZ the Canyon Armed to the F'in teeth....As carni said We went to do a Drive By Shooting in TG Canyon for a bit of fun. Only a few of us went along...we didnt Call on every available clan member online and all are allies to boot....just a few of us having a bit of Fun.
If we were dead set on Destroying the Rhino at all costs...it would have..we could have call for help and rained Hell on Earth on to it as you well know.
So please excuse me for not putting a Anti-Vehicle Rocket Launcher in my gogo.
:eek:
ghandisfury
20-01-04, 15:12
Sure, reduce holy heal by 50% (or whatever) once they remove paralasys.
ok you guys seem to be missing the point of the thread, my rhino tank part just highlighted it for me last night, im not complaining about rhinos atm.
Its the holy heal, ok lets start off, the tank part last night, Eled had a anti vhc gun, he fired hell down on my rhino, and yes i had to drive back to TG asg to repair it, cost me at least 30k each time and i went back 4 times.
The last few times i came back again, there was another TG rhino there shooting, so thats 2 rhinos now trying to shoot out 2 gen tanks, with ppu's up their arse.
Carni, a rhino tank CAN NOT outdmg holy heal, i saw it with my own eyes, thats why i ended up pulling out and went home to TG again, my gunner was shooting nonstop on Eled and Gestra put a HH on him, as we know when your being healed you take less dmg as it is, so when i see 29 come off his hdead from a rhino hit, then 44hp go back on, i realise a holy heal is over powered atm, but without bashing PPU's or nerfing them, simple answer is make them foriegn cast penalty like shields are right now, the balance between PvP and PvM is very easy to over come, simply reduce the dmg the mobs do to compensate for the lesser heal power.
The PPU keeps their powerful heals "only way a PPU should die is to a good APU with holy anti buff"
Then the rest of the players don't have that godlike protection a PPU's gives them.
I truely believe that anyone who says holy heal is not overpowered is lying not only to themselves but to everyone else as well, and if you don't think your lying then your just dumb and stupid.
I'm not saying by any means that we should all have rhino's, but at long last they are being used more and should be a very powerful weapon to use, of course a PPU can't hurt the Rhino or the people inside, should they? are they not meant to be support roles and ZERO offense? ok then.
Yes Simon to you I say a APU can hurt a Rhino, i've seen it with my own eyes and also been a APU hurting a rhino, but no vhc should be 100% invul against everything except anti vhc guns.
As i said before, my rhino tank fun was just highlighting to me how powerful a holy heal is, when a Rhino tank can't drop a single tank after many tries and hits coz he has holy heal on him 24/7 something is wrong, its highlighted it to me, maybe a few of you drivers or disbelievers should get a rhino and a ppu and a tank and see what I'm on about.
Better yet, get any class you want and get a PPU to holy heal anyone, you try and kill them without a debuff, impossible.
Richard Slade
20-01-04, 15:35
Except for a spy who kill_self 1 if he step on a stick.
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
Carni, a rhino tank CAN NOT outdmg holy heal, i saw it with my own eyes, thats why i ended up pulling out and went home to TG again,
They sound like they were kitted out against rhino fire then, because there is no way a PPU can protect someone from not dying to a Rhino. My gunners have killed numerous people with a PPU stuck to them.
Have to remember the Rhino gun has the same range if not more as a sniper rifle, so they have to get in close to get a good shot. Also if you keep moving while firing (preferebly away from the PPU) the PPU has to keep up to keep casting. Staying stationary and firing tends not to be the best way to deal with people unless your pinning them.
Yes Simon to you I say a APU can hurt a Rhino, i've seen it with my own eyes and also been a APU hurting a rhino, but no vhc should be 100% invul against everything except anti vhc guns.
Of course an APU can hurt a rhino. I have seen it too. But there are very few who I have seen hurt it with a HL, and those that do tend to do more damage if I don't have a gunner in the Rhino. But there are other spells that have guaranted damage (which HL doesn't), but again with a gunner and repair person you are pretty much immune to anything bar anti-tank guns and other rare combat crafts.
Remember a Rhino is a support craft as well. Fit out two passenger seats and have the guys drop out and fire then get back in (or use the Rhino for cover) and you have a serious amount of firepower with incredible protection.
Lifewaster
20-01-04, 15:59
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
ok you guys seem to be missing the point of the thread, my rhino tank part just highlighted it for me last night, im not complaining about rhinos atm.]
Ok so the rhino isnt a problem then, its got enough bonus in defence, movement to justify its cost despite only having moderate firepower.... fine
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
Better yet, get any class you want and get a PPU to holy heal anyone, you try and kill them without a debuff, impossible.
So the problem for you is PPU, you go 1 v 1 on another equal level player, and despite how good your weapons are you cannot kill him because he has an equally good PPU healing him.
So basically, a capped PPU ...can stop a capped attacker ...from killing a capped defender. .... as long as he keeps casting heal every 15 seconds , heal sanctum every 60 seconds, and shelter and deflector every 120 seconds.
I really dont understand what is so bad about this?
Originally posted by Lifewaster
So the problem for you is PPU, you go 1 v 1 on another equal level player, and despite how good your weapons are you cannot kill him because he has an equally good PPU healing him.
[/B]
So why not even it up then. Have a PPU with the Rhino (Driver or passenger) and use them. See how long they last then.
1 v 1, but one has a PPU on them and people are upset because? o_O
I think I definitely agree. As much as I hate the holy heal when a monk uses it on himself, I dunno if it should be changed. But you are right, what really needs to change is that it can make any one a god cause you simply can't out damage the holy heal.
But you are right, what really needs to change is that it can make any one a god cause you simply can't out damage the holy heal.
Finnaly someone who see's what my post is about, and not about the rhino tank lol, thank you Jest.
QuantumDelta
20-01-04, 17:20
Originally posted by Lucjan
Needing holy heal as it is now because of chaos caves is definetly not an valid argument. KK changed the mob strenght when they introduced the reduction on forein casts, they can do it again.
Like Richard mentioned, the holy heal problem is know since forever, yet any idea about reducing it was always seen as PPU nerf :( Since ALL the PPU nerfs including Rezz time MC5 /etc hasn't been touched so this is crap.
People just want to kill the PPU.
Lets see, things nerfed;
PPU Defence (this was subtle and not announced).
PPU S/D on others.
PPU Rezz.
PPU Parashock.
What's that leave?
Damage Boost, Heal, and Boosters.
Oh....My God.
Exactly QD
Leave heal alone.
Add Holier Heal and "Self-Resurrect" spells.
This nerf the PPU bullshit has got to stop.
If Rhino doesn't hit hard enough just say it, don't ask for heal to be nerfed. I think it ought to hit like the Vanguard in Planetside, that is, hard.
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
Add Holier Heal and "Self-Resurrect" spells.
Nonono, 'Holier then thou' heal and give it to non-monks.
Incidently, damage boost a monk and the Rhino will hurt them even with a holy heal running. But then will say 'OMG YOU NEED A PPU!! NERF NERF'
QuantumDelta
20-01-04, 17:58
Nah, PEs can DB, but then again they're overpowered too.
Tanks can use their Devourer, but they're overpowered as well.
Drones are really hard to target so they're overpowered too ya know?
Sniper/Stealthing spies are unkillable so they're also overpowered...
Don't forget the APUs and stuff :p
:rolleyes:
What I find most amusing is it's always "After this nerf it'll be balanced!" pffttttt
Nice one QD
Leave Heals well alone.
I told you it would start... I did didn't I... hehehhe ;-)
Lifewaster
20-01-04, 18:39
Originally posted by Jest
I think I definitely agree. As much as I hate the holy heal when a monk uses it on himself, I dunno if it should be changed. But you are right, what really needs to change is that it can make any one a god cause you simply can't out damage the holy heal.
Well if you change this, if you make it that a SINGLE player can outdamage the BEST heal in the game, then there is no use to heals at all in PvP.
May as well remove all heal spells, leave medkits in, give everybody a gun, delete all classes except PEs , give everybody stealth, turn neocron into quake4 , whoever fires firstest fastest wins.....
Id like to see Shelters and Deflectors boosted alot, and all heals nerfed, and say after an amount of damage the shelters & deflectors begin to degrade and disperse, so youll have to cast new ones. Maybe high up the mana costs on shelters and stuff aswell.
Promethius
20-01-04, 18:51
Well i agree with the 50% heal reducing for foreign cast in PvP....but then again PvM...
I'd rather in warzones / anarchy a heal does 50% less. But in safe / hunting grounds its up to full power.
Also the 50% may be a bit harsh. Considering a capped heal does about 30 per tick. Put that down to 15 for a foreign cast. My tank heals about 6-8 hp per tick. Would make PPU's kinda pointless...but it just might be wat NC PvP needs but not PvM.
Duder thats actually the start of a good idea but I am nervous agreeing with you because I never know if you are being sarcastic or not any more haha.
Gah I wrote a long post about why holy heal should have a target reduction but I'm not even going to bother.
No, its the real deal.
About the whole PPU cleric crap, giving a class godmode and low offense, it might be a good idea to put more emphasis on protection and less about healing or resurrection, or lame freezing spells.
The shelter and deflector should stop most elements and attacks except maybe vehicles...might see more on them on the field if they could penetrate shields but eh, that would make infantry only good for rushing the OP courtyard, might make ppus whine too much because they cant survive a rhino, only when they are assulting the OP's inside compound where the vehicles cant move inside.
Hell, if they made vehicle weapons penetrate shelters and deflectors, it would make gen-tanks have some use as they would be able to withstand vehicle attacks and they can launch anti-vehicle missiles, that that would make the game too exciting too see a squad of vehicles, driven by spies and glider transport with a load of ppus and apus and a few spies scouting with their scout gliders and drones.
[SARCASM]Also all this sounds like PlanetSide, because i mentioned vehicles and "squad" and "Outpost", so the idea sucks anyways. IGNORE IT BECUASE IT SOUNDS LIEK PLANETSIDE LOLZ PLANETSIDE[SARCASM]
Fuck... why doesn't anyone have a go at nerfing Provoke monster? I mean LEAVE MY FUCKING TOOLS ALONE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Anyone bother to count the number of PPUs lately? not seeing as many as I did, and I have seen PPUs die (as well as myself), so the only reason the PPU isn't dying is because you people suck in skill vs the PPU in question.
And people complaining about a PPU strapped to someones ass... well ever stop to think THATS ALL WE CAN DO. I mean ffs, when was the last time someone here died to a sole PPU? Anyone? come on I know it was probably embarrassing but I don't see anyone coming forward.
.. and while I'm in a ranting mood, being a PPU .. a good ppu takes skill. Its all about knowing your buffs, and how long they last what kind of counters to have for what attacks, who needs healing as soon as possible, who needs buffs, maintaining your mana pool. Don't think it takes skill? :P I'm out helping people hunting for over an hour without anyone dying. I let my brother take over (Jaggeh) while I help with dinner and 10 minutes later he has me dead on the ground. Why? Because he didn't realise how much damage I could take, how long spells take to cast or how to pull monsters off yourself.
Psycho Killa
20-01-04, 20:27
I see ton of ppu's archeus calm down.
Anyways I just wanted to say I love duders idea its been the best one I have seen yet.
I logged on for a day of opways a few days ago this is how i died.
1) I ran out of psi boosters ahahah the most embarissing death ive ever had thats what I get for forgeting my gogo was empty and only keeping like 7 boosters on me. :(
2)Got stuck against a wall with a stun turret and died to sustained fire
3)Died to sustained fire from about 20 people (no not an exageration) Only took about 20 seconds for them once all there fire was concentrated on me but it was 20 people it should have been quicker lol
4)My game locked up and when i came back a lone apu was standing over my corpse
Lastly) My clan at the time logged off and it was me and a pe (Rade) we decided to have one last crack at the 20 person army by ourselves. We managed to drop one person out of the 20 and almost killed another one when they finnaly managed to drop rade which is about the time my catharsis sanctum fell down and they all shot me for a couple hundred feet as a i wobbled away and finnaly got taken down.
Now your right not all ppu's are overpowered but then again half the people playing a ppu are fucking retards and no nothing about the game. Id go caving with ppu's and be like do you have a heal sanctum up? Why should i use a heal sanctum? they would say. I see ppu's do stupid stuff all the time I even seen a guy in another thread saying hes sick of ppus not carrying melee boost lmao come on people.
Archeus your correct the hardest class to master is a ppu I dont give a fuck what anyone else says ive played every single class at one point or another.
My priorities in an op fight are.
1) Keep myself alive. (This involves many things sheltering healing buffing antiparing anti poisining anti damage boosting etc.)
2) Heal other people
3) Shelter other people
4) Deflector other people
5) Ressurecting teammates
6) Damage boost close enemies
7) Buffing my teammates Hp/combat/spy3
8) Parashocking enemies
Now I have to sift through the chat of people screaming for heals s/d buffs we need a res over here psycho. All this shit and decided what needs to be done in that split second
To top if off you need a fair amount of fps skill. You may not think its that hard to point and click a heal :rolleyes: but you try casting a heal on a pe doing capped runspeed running around 4 enemies and manage to not cast it on anyone you dont want to. You try to buff someone running around like a mad man. You try sheltering deflectoring healing while enemy and allies alike are zooming around you.
My point to all of this is all ppus can take a shitload of damage and be god like some just better then others. Also were to fucking important.
All i have to say is If theres an op fight 10 vs 20 and the 10 has a ppu and the 20 doesnt i bet my neocron account on the 10 with a ppu.
I am PPU, hear me roar.
I tell jokes, I heal people, I make fun of people for not color-coordinating their costumes (yes, I said costumes), and I kill all mooks that get in my way (provided they don't die of boredom or can't manage to wander away from my uber paraslugs first).
One part of that sentence is untrue, can you guess which?
I haven't killed anyone as a PPU, but have been killed many times due to various rookie mistakes. This, I accept as the learning curve necessary to be a better PPU.
*flinches from shouts of 'Get on with it already!' coming from the audience*
Right, my point.
So far, I've only seen one good alternative to the 'Power of the Holy Heal' (which follows suit with the effects of the spell on others weaker than if they were self-cast). Having the spell's efficiency drop while being used on others makes the PPU's job more complicated to say the least, but if something must be adjusted at all (which I am in firm disagreement of), it should be that.
Im just wondering, what if PPUs got a push spell? Say change the paralysis to a push spells, that repells anything a few meters.
Someone coming to shoot you from behind? Push him away...
Although they would have to change the Stun Trap.
@PK: Shame that 80% of PPUs only ever do steps 1 and 8.
Eledhbrant
20-01-04, 21:35
Duder: Push spell sounds VERY fun.
@Anima: Yeah I was whacking at your rhino with my anti veh launcher, btw it took ages to make his rhino run and I never managed to kill it because he kept moving so much, but as a result the only times his gunner could hit me repeatedly was when he slowed down enough to get hit himself.
I didnt die for a few reasons (and btw if I stayed in the fire I probably WOULD have died)
#1: Energy resist, a lot of it.
#2: Gestra is a nice aim with his heal :)
#3: If I got too hurt I either pinned myself to your rhino or dodged madly over and back so you'd miss me and i'd be ok in a bit, but in doing this I cant hit you because I need to crouch and lock and I'll MAYBE hit you with the launcher.
Grant & canyon raids = Teh win.
Originally posted by Lifewaster
Well if you change this, if you make it that a SINGLE player can outdamage the BEST heal in the game, then there is no use to heals at all in PvP.
Yes there is. There's a reason it's called "Holy Heal" and not "Holy Shield of 15 seconds of Invulnerability" you know.
Originally posted by Scikar
Yes there is. There's a reason it's called "Holy Heal" and not "Holy Shield of 15 seconds of Invulnerability" you know. Werd.
Btw I agree with PK that the PPU class is definitely the hardest to play effectively, but Id say one of the easiest to look like you know what you are doing. The PPU problem is the same as the stealthing PE problem. Its the hardest to master but any slack jawed yockel can play it and be an instance pain in the arse.
QuantumDelta
20-01-04, 22:08
PKs priorities were close to my own, we had another PPU normally on station with polar opposite priorities (except survival)
my point here, a PPU should not die to a single player, i would defend that fact forever that PPU's are ingame, BUT i will say my point again to those misreading it all, the "god" mode a PPU has, should not be passed onto other runners.
Now in a outpost fight, its a stalemate type situation, coz you got ppu's on both sides and its more down to skills "or numbers lol" but in last nights situation we had a rhino for our protection and you had the ppu, your ppu was giving you god mode with his holy heal.
#2: Gestra is a nice aim with his heal
As you said, hence my reason for posting here today, and the reason why i feel holy heal is to much when casted on others. BUT i can see why some people are refusing to believe this, as it would make a PPU's job harder to keep others alive while fighting, but again my point here is runners should not be godlike, and this is nothing todo with someones skill at aiming, its todo with offensive power vs defensive power.
I have killed PPU's with my rhino, and killed PPU's without my rhino, they must have been crap though to die like that, I know PPU's that would not die as easy, Gestra being one of them, as it should be, killing a PPU is down to teamwork and tactics.
1 vs 1 a rhino tank should outgun a gen tank, but can't due to a holy heal.
leave the ppu alone, but sort out the holy heal's
QuantumDelta
20-01-04, 22:28
Anima, no offence but there shouldn't be any clans stupid enough to leave it in a stale mate situation with rezz as MEGANERFED as it is now.
Stalemate excuse doesn't work anymore.
Again comparing to a past occurance;
If I, alone, no turrets, no back up, can kill a APU and, eventually a PPU on my PE when they shot ME first, WITHOUT using Stealth.
I should think it's possible to deal with it now when rezz is mega nerfed ¬.¬
The tactics are seriously right infront of your face dude it worked back in the day and it works now, I still can't believe people cannot see it -_-
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
1 vs 1 a rhino tank should outgun a gen tank, but can't due to a holy heal.
It does outgun a gen tank but I don't recall a gentank ever being able to cast holy heal.
Disturbed021
20-01-04, 22:36
Originally posted by Archeus
It does outgun a gen tank but I don't recall a gentank ever being able to cast holy heal.
OMG NERF TEH TANKS AND THEIR HOLY HEALS!!!:D
ffs im not on about tactics QD, and Simon stop being an arse, you know exactly what i mean holy heal is over powered no two ways about it, and if you guys cant see that well then im more shocked at the intel on this forum than i thought, its like omg dont nerf this i use it, i dont care about balance in the game :mad: :mad:
some people eh o_O
BTW a ppu can kill a spy a apu and a tank easily
get skillz
plz nerf my tanks tl3 heal.
we regularly raid MB with rhinos, and gentanks drop like flies to a rhino, we've had 3+ tanks shooting us and they die, even with anti-vehicle launchers because a skilled driver can weave around the slow ass rockets.
once you introduce a ppu, sure, everything is fubar - we have 3 rhinos shooting a ppu and he just walked around infront of us, then we had the 3 drivers hop out plus 2 passengers, all shooting him, and he still holy healed himself and soaked up the damage... i have to agree holy heal is pretty powerful... reducing the effect on other people would make it alright
how much a tank makes damage nowdays to gentank? (about, good and capped) i havent test it for while but sometime ago a tank just drived away when driver saw gentank with cs :)
i mean with out ppu buffs and shielders
Devils Grace
21-01-04, 14:29
wtf u talking about.........
i can kill ppl with a ppu with them, ppl can kill me easy to with me having a ppu up my arse.
just kuz u dont have skills, doesnt mean others dont to.
stfu, u think its easy for a ppu to heal while u moving like hell in the middle of 3 ,4 ppl ?
ppl just want the game easy for them so they try it...
for exemple: last night i was killed a few times in pp, by that bitch devourer, it ripes me to pieces
does that mean i want it nerfed, fuck no....
tanks got their loving, and they deserve it
all i have to do is adapt my self and try not to be hit
i sick and tired of all u nerf lovers.......
nerf and change things that need to be nerf and changed.
dont ask for a nerf just beacuase u cant win dumbass
i must agree with Devils Grace in here. Yes, ppu is strong, yes devourer is good, yes pe stealth is uber - just deal with it, find a way to kill em. and stop whining in forum about them
everyone got weak point, devourer - 10 metter range, hard to aim - so why u need to go so near him? ppu - you dont need to attack him u cant kill him - he cant kill u. pe with stealt is a bit harder, havent test pe with stealth yet so i cant say enything about it - but i havent got problems to kill stealth pe with my tank or apu. few sec unstealth is enought for me and my poison beam :)
devils grace, if you can't handle dying without a holy heal on you then you should not be playing this game, those that think im talking shit or im mad are completely insane, you know holy heal is to powerful, it doesnt matter what weapon you use on anyone when they have holy heal casted on them, be it op wars or just a small battle, a holy heal is just to powerful to make the game balanced, firepower will never drop a good ppu, debuffing and hitting them will if your fast enough, but just like everyone should not have to bring a ppu to a fight just for heals, no one should have to bring a apu with them to debuff the enemy either, enough firepower on a tank or pe or apu or spy should drop them in time.
Also who the fuck asid anything about skills? are people really reading before they post here, it really doesnt seem so, reread the post from start to finish and then reply with a sensible answer instead of just trolling the forums to flame others.
MY example for a stationary gentank kneeling shooting a anti vhc gun, while my thino "which i was driving" was going round and round him and he was missing me all the time near the end, thats easy to do, no skill in that, and while i was driving my gunner was hitting him all the time, but did nothing.
Again i point out the facts here, dmg 29 healed 44, so if you think being healed for 44 points while a rhino hits you for 29 then your seriously fucking stupid that anything in any game should give you god mode. KK you know what you need todo to fix this, people moaned when shelters and deflectors was made forieng cast yet no one thinks twice about it now, and have played their game like it never happened, fix and reduce the power of holy heal on others, make it foriegn cast and it will be fine.
Shadow Dancer
21-01-04, 17:26
Anima is right, holy heal is TEH uberness. It is sooooooo pointless to hit people with shelter and a heal running IMO.
I never waste mana like that at an op fight. I always debuff first. My HL doesn't do much to a sheltered apu/tank/whatever with a holy heal running. It's pointless to even try.
Devils Grace
21-01-04, 17:55
:rolleyes:
a shadow dancer lovers.............
where did u saw me saying that i dont fight without a holy heal.....
read what i said was that i can kill ppl with a ppu up their arse and ppl can kill me with a ppu up my arse.......
u just (like SD) hate one class so much ,just because, for u both it ruins the game or u dont like that style of play...............and that is complety (lack of english words)........em português és um palhaço do caralho :p
and its ppl like u that ruin this fucking game, when god knows why, kk decids to listen and make changes.............
About the gen-tank against rhino, my caped HL does more damage them him, a moonstriker does more damage then him,
LETS NERF THIS SHIT TOOOO:confused:
pls, keep ur mind empty, dont try to thinl or have any ideas, at least like that.............
Eledhbrant
21-01-04, 18:45
Anima you obviously did not read MY post properly.
I SAID that if I stayed in the sustained rhino fire I WOULD have died most likely.
And no, your gunner did not hit every shot even if he appeared to, because there is a miss factor in effect which seems to be bigger while you're driving in circles :P
Also, did it occur to you that (not to blow my own horn but) maybe my tank is better setup vs a rhino than an average one?
Devils Grace
21-01-04, 19:08
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
Anima you obviously did not read MY post properly.
I SAID that if I stayed in the sustained rhino fire I WOULD have died most likely.
And no, your gunner did not hit every shot even if he appeared to, because there is a miss factor in effect which seems to be bigger while you're driving in circles :P
Also, did it occur to you that (not to blow my own horn but) maybe my tank is better setup vs a rhino than an average one?
CRUSHED:lol: :lol: :lol:
Promethius
21-01-04, 20:10
Eled how much dmg were u taking per shot from the rhino?
Eledhbrant
21-01-04, 20:51
Cant remember, I just remember that if I got hit a couple times in a row I dont think the heal was winning
Originally posted by Samhain
once you introduce a ppu, sure, everything is fubar - we have 3 rhinos shooting a ppu and he just walked around infront of us, then we had the 3 drivers hop out plus 2 passengers, all shooting him, and he still holy healed himself and soaked up the damage... i have to agree holy heal is pretty powerful... reducing the effect on other people would make it alright
Who is this mystical PPU? 2 Rhinos and 5 people whacking on him? I call BS on that one unless the 5 people suck. a PPU can shrug off one Rhino, maybe 2 but with 5 people as well? Only if those 5 people are really bad at PvP.
Sustained Rhino fire will kill most people even with a holy heal running.
i give up, DG your such a fucking idiot its unreal.
Eled, im sure we will meet again with me driving a rhino, and im sure again if Gestra is with you as he is mostly as he is your m8, then im sure ill end up driving away as i know its pointless.
wp gg guys, keep the god mode running, maybe i should get a ppu on me so i can't die, will be great fun.
As mentioned earlier in a Rhino fight. Ignore the PPU. Once his friends are dead, there is no way a PPU can stay stationary long enough to rez thier friends with a Rhino whacking on them, and all spells a PPU has mean dick against a rhino or anyone that is using the Rhino as support.
QuantumDelta
22-01-04, 11:29
Originally posted by Archeus
As mentioned earlier in a Rhino fight. Ignore the PPU. Once his friends are dead, there is no way a PPU can stay stationary long enough to rez thier friends with a Rhino whacking on them, and all spells a PPU has mean dick against a rhino or anyone that is using the Rhino as support.
This is the tactic against every PPU+X vs.
Kill X first.
.................................
Like I said earlier, with Holy Rezz nerfed now, here's no way the PPU could rezz'em without A) Dying. B) A miracle.
And that's if you don't use the rhino to exploit.
I dont think the holy heal is a problem, Rather it is a big massive rhino it does cost a decent amount to build,buy,repair. So it should have good fire power to go with it. Just now its not bad but could probally do with a slight increase in its damage output.
holyheal is good, just make a tank better.
:)
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 15:24
im a fuking idiot kuz i dont see things ur way, yes i am
ur a fucking idiot kuz u cant win so u ask for soemtin to be changed that alows u to do so, using the wrong arguments on the wrong issue.
nerf parashock to hell and then try that out for a few weeks....
with ppl runnig full tilt all over the place its going to be hard fir a ppu to target them... ie if he does it should be rewarded...
but hey maybe a "small" nerf might be good?
Been having some kick ass fights on venus vs ppl that dont have ppus... kinda fun really :)
Eledhbrant
22-01-04, 20:02
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
wp gg guys, keep the god mode running, maybe i should get a ppu on me so i can't die, will be great fun.
PPUs cant save someone who's inside a rhino :p
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
PPUs cant save someone who's inside a rhino :p
Unless that PPU is a driver I guess. :p
bah u guys are nuts, i get better convo's talking to mental health people in a ward in some nut farm lol
Leave the rhino out of this post now, its not meant to be a guideline for holy heal, it was just an example as to the other night "seems like a long time ago now for some reason"
@ DG, it was not a case of "cant win" it was a case of seeing how powerful one thing is in the game and how that doesn't make a balance, I tell you what, don't nerf holy heal, raise all dmg on all weps on every class, how does that sound? its the same result but more work for the dev's and no one gets a nerf, and everyone is happy they do more dmg, sounds good to me.
Devils Grace
22-01-04, 21:22
in that case my HL still does more damage then ur rhino:rolleyes:
get me;)
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