View Full Version : Challenging Mobs
I think right now there is a serious lack of CHALLENGING MOBS in the game of Neocron. What I mean by this is, basically 2 players can kill anything in this game. Even the highest/hardest leveling spots like the chaos caves can be completely SOLO'D, even the last boss.
MC5 isn't hard...I solo mc5 all the time with my ppu on my second computer and my apu on my main computer...its just that easy.
How about some 127/127 mobs that have health pools like no one could imagine, and move so quick its unbelievable, and tear you down in 2-3 swings or 5-6 swings if you are a ppu, and definately swing fast. A mob that *DOES NOT DROP AN ITEM THAT IS NECESSARY TO PLAY THIS GAME*, but just drops something great that people want, but not something mandatory. God knows if some n00b cant get it, its unfair right! :rolleyes:
I would just love to see some mobs that actually challanging to fight, and take a group to beat...the closest thing ive ever seen to this was the christmas spawn at el ferid underground...where a GM had spawned a mix of mobs from ALL high level caves, and thrown them all inside the cave...now THAT was tough. Getting hammered by poison bats, poison snakes and scorpians while having to fight off poison bats, fen fires and other misc crap was not easy to do....
How about a chaos cave that spawns all BOSS mobs throughout the whole thing? And you HAVE to fight them close quarters...so they will spawn a thousand babies...that would be tough to beat. Would be FUN for groups to go and fight there.
Im just spitting out ideas, do you have any? Because honestly, I could really go without seeing another chaos creeper or doomreaper for the rest of my life, when it comes to pvm i think neocron could just a teency weency bit more variety, and some more challanging mobs.
Do another MC5 type of area, this time with the PP flamer guards :p
Now that could be interesting...
rubaduckythug
20-01-04, 11:25
lmao yea, replace mc5 guards with the TS guards:p they hurt :(
Good idea though, but wut should it drop? although i dont like the idea of another mc5 since its hard to hunt there as with only one room in all of nc :p make it more liek a spawn in a few sectors but like a 127/127*** mob that can rip throw 10 ppl without breaking a sweat o_O but with the help of a big group and some good ppus it would be possable
What about very rare random drop (off any mob) player level dependant unique items? (lets say in three different categories - for up to /20, up to /40 and over) Perhaps even make some non tradable. Drop missions would also be nice.
Hmmm.... This might be a bit over the top, but is seems cool :p
How about player placed mobs? You can only place mobs in certain areas of course. Also, there can be a maximum of x mobs in an area at any given time. If you want to place a mob, and the area is full, you'll have to kill a mob first.
They work as dynamic objects, only you can put a loot item in them when you spawn them. There could be different levels like 50/50, 90/90, 110/110, 127/127, which can be bought from a certain NPC or something...
I know, it might be too much GMish :p but it would certainly add fun :)
Necrosadistic
20-01-04, 11:34
How about just improving the AI on the mobs we have already?
The amazing stupidity of a lot of mobs makes them sooo easy to kill...
also increase the damage on some mobs, as fighting brutes and horrors is just kneeling and pressing the left mouse button atm, I can outheal them on my PE just with self buffs and the heal...
Original monk
20-01-04, 11:36
there is no hilevel content in this game: i want a supermob also ... some time ago i saw a screenshot here about a game where they killed a supermob called: the sleeper: about 200 people fired at it for about 3 hours and finally killed it cause of diffrent clans/ factions working togheter ... sony didnt even implement loot in the 'sleeper' cause they tought it was unkillable :P
now thats the kind of mob we need: atleast 6 stars and rank way beyond where a GM can dream of :P like 527/527 or sumthing: we need FAT ASS mobs
or atleast 5 star warbots :P
Originally posted by phunqe
I know, it might be too much GMish :p but it would certainly add fun :)
That's an understatement :p
I think there should still be places for solo leveling. Places for group leveling/fun should be added for those that don't like to PvP or just enjoy beating mobs once in a while.
Good idea but there should be several places with those mobs so not everyone has to go to the same spot to hunt for them
Mumblyfish
20-01-04, 14:06
Originally posted by Original monk
some time ago i saw a screenshot here about a game where they killed a supermob called: the sleeper: about 200 people fired at it for about 3 hours and finally killed it cause of diffrent clans/ factions working togheter ... sony didnt even implement loot in the 'sleeper' cause they tought it was unkillable :P
That's Everquest. Seeing that made me want to reactivate my old account. There was SO MUCH PvM content for high-level players, it makes Neocron look like the bastard child of Minesweeper. If we had some uber mobs like in Everquest and Ragnarok Online, I'd be one happy camper.
Originally posted by g0rt
MC5 isn't hard...I solo mc5 all the time with my ppu on my second computer and my apu on my main computer...its just that easy.
thats not soloing buddy, thats 2-boxing... big diff
oh and the sleeper... well lets see... they were combat rezzing (damn hard even with a clicky) the sleeper has an AoE insta death, proc's a death touch and quads 800's (if i remember correctly) now they needed 200 ppls to do that, prolly 40 melee's 40 wizards 1 shaman 1 chanter and 118 clerics healing and combat rezzing (they get akin to 20% SI when theyre rezzedbut they did it cos they could...
also a Lvl 52 monk Solo'd (yes solo'd) lady vox... a Big fuck off dragon... (why cos it was a challenge)
also an Enchanter Solo'd (cant remember the dragons name but its a big hardcore mutha) why? well it seemed like a challenge, and she did it
what did EQ do straight after all these achievements? nerfed the spells/abilities that allowed these characters to do such a thing because they didnt want them to be solo'd and the sleeper he can only be awoken ONCE, once hes awoken he goes on a rampage killing everything he finds then despawns perminantly and the mobs/loot that was in there is never attainable ever again....
our equivelent to the sleeper is GM events, such as kami's and cere's bloakeges attacking NC, etc... but if yu want special 'boss' mobs that yu have to wait 40 hrs to span or have to do a quest that allows a mob to be spawned.. then yu should try Everquest... its a very passive game... trust me on that
one last thing, (forgot to add) if yu want challenging mobs, go raid a faction HQ, with the new Guard boost its the most fun. EVER! i've been raiding TT HQ lately (no ppl there to PK but hey) the guards are soo hard its incredibly fun.. trust me try a raid on a Faction HQ.. yu'll never have so much fun (DO take friends however... yu'll need them)
Psyco Groupie
20-01-04, 18:06
they need to make grim chasers and 120/120 mobs as powerful as 100/100 mobs are now and add in a new range of mobs 100-120 .. like a IMPERIAL WARBOT or somat .. shoots liek both arms and shoots much more often ... basically make em all tuff bastards :D
I find it real funny that
1. Using a PPU to buff you would be considered "soloing"
2. That someone would use a PPU to buff them then complain mobs are too easy.
Every try going ACTUALLY solo? Just by yourself? I BET it would be a TAD more challenging.
:rolleyes:
I totaly agree here, there is a serious problem in mob difficulty. Mobs are either too hard or too easy. No inbetween. If they are too hard it is strictly because of their damage output, if you can avoid being shot then they become easy.
Strych9, the mobs damage output has been adjusted so that they assume you have a ppu with you. KK has decided we're supposed to team to do anything important and that team should have a ppu.
I cant solo a Grim if there aint a big hill I can camp behind..... if he comes upclose I am so dead "hate medikits grrrrrrr"
I know what you mean Ive definitely been yearning for a little more variety myself. I had a pretty similiar idea a while back here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81696&highlight=brainport). (Basically just an idea for boss mobs).
The blood viper king's room used to be blocked off. You could however access it by resetting your position. God knows why the reset position for that zone is in the king's room. Anyway, probably the most fun I ever had hunting a mob was here. A small group of us would be huddled in the fountain with noway out aside from dying. All around us are a swarm of angry snakes just waiting for us to poke our heads up. Then among them all is the blood viper king, the nastiest poison in the game. I remember crouching in there targeting everyone in my team repeatedly to keep heals on all the time and ressurecting those that fell, while trying to avoid death myself. Keep in mind there was no anti poison drugs or spells then. This, in my opinion is more in the right direction. Not just the mob is difficult, the environment does not allow for an easy camping spot. But yet standing out in the op does not mean you fall over dead in a shot or two. Getting a coiuple stacks of poison is not the end of the world, but if you continue to get stacked, you're in trouble.
Yah Blood Viper King is awesome. I used to solo level there with my overpowered hybrid and I have about 50 VK chests because of it. :eek: Definitely a fun place though.
yeah higher level mobs shouldnt mean higher armor / hitpoints / damage output, but make them more fun, high hit points and armor but medium damage and it runs around like those DoY bots, give it multiple weaponry. For example it has rifle but without the insane range. If you hide behind a hill, it tosses a nade at you, and again not like those damn crazy butchees o_o
I wanna see a huge mob that roams across the wasteland killing all!:cool:
yeah mobs that can zone would be great...
Originally posted by Jest
I know what you mean Ive definitely been yearning for a little more variety myself. I had a pretty similiar idea a while back here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81696&highlight=brainport). (Basically just an idea for boss mobs).
Yeah there is definatly a need for some "new" and challenging Mobs in game.. something that takes you a while to kill..
and no MC 5 guards dont count;)
Originally posted by Comie
thats not soloing buddy, thats 2-boxing... big diff
oh and the sleeper... well lets see... they were combat rezzing (damn hard even with a clicky) the sleeper has an AoE insta death, proc's a death touch and quads 800's (if i remember correctly) now they needed 200 ppls to do that, prolly 40 melee's 40 wizards 1 shaman 1 chanter and 118 clerics healing and combat rezzing (they get akin to 20% SI when theyre rezzedbut they did it cos they could...
also a Lvl 52 monk Solo'd (yes solo'd) lady vox... a Big fuck off dragon... (why cos it was a challenge)
also an Enchanter Solo'd (cant remember the dragons name but its a big hardcore mutha) why? well it seemed like a challenge, and she did it
what did EQ do straight after all these achievements? nerfed the spells/abilities that allowed these characters to do such a thing because they didnt want them to be solo'd and the sleeper he can only be awoken ONCE, once hes awoken he goes on a rampage killing everything he finds then despawns perminantly and the mobs/loot that was in there is never attainable ever again....
our equivelent to the sleeper is GM events, such as kami's and cere's bloakeges attacking NC, etc... but if yu want special 'boss' mobs that yu have to wait 40 hrs to span or have to do a quest that allows a mob to be spawned.. then yu should try Everquest... its a very passive game... trust me on that
one last thing, (forgot to add) if yu want challenging mobs, go raid a faction HQ, with the new Guard boost its the most fun. EVER! i've been raiding TT HQ lately (no ppl there to PK but hey) the guards are soo hard its incredibly fun.. trust me try a raid on a Faction HQ.. yu'll never have so much fun (DO take friends however... yu'll need them)
Yeah, its soloing. Theres only ONE player doing the work, me. Thats solo. Want some www.dictionary.com help? Here ya go..
so·lo ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sl)
n. pl. so·los
Made or done by a single individual.
There ya go. Im doing this as a single individual, me. Feel free to take any other stupid remarks and put them where the sun don't shine :p .
Everquest is a carebear game, the pvp is crap, so count me out. But since pvp has been nerfed to shit in this game with tools like belt drops and soullight, we may as well have some challanges when it comes to pvm. Faction HQ? Yeah right..lets go royally screw our faction symps AND get nothing out of it at the same time! FUN! Maybe if faction guards dropped *** loot I would be there.
Originally posted by Strych9
I find it real funny that
1. Using a PPU to buff you would be considered "soloing"
2. That someone would use a PPU to buff them then complain mobs are too easy.
Every try going ACTUALLY solo? Just by yourself? I BET it would be a TAD more challenging.
:rolleyes:
Ive been playing this game since beta 4 WITHOUT QUITTING like everyone seems to do every few months, including yourself. I have played without a ppu ALOT, and I mean ALOT...the facts are:
Chaos Caves - spec 114 poison, wear a poison belt or viper king armor, and booya you can medkit the chaos caves wow tough
Fire Mobs - these are a joke you can hide from them, heal up, and go at them again...its really pathetic when a /40 tank can EASILY kick the crap out of a 120/120 grim chaser...and with 114 in fire resist and full inq on, it aint that hard..even if you get hit a few times.
Warbots - don't get me started these things are jokes
I could go on...everythings easy, and somethings NEED a ppu...and when you NEED a ppu, it turns EASY again. There are NO challanges in this game, pvm wise....
Originally posted by g0rt
I could go on...everythings easy, and somethings NEED a ppu...and when you NEED a ppu, it turns EASY again. There are NO challanges in this game, pvm wise....
Exactly, it quickly becomes tedious camping, doing a run over and over again. There is no doubt in your ability to complete a run. The last time I was actualy doubtful I could survive, was as an APU solo in the chaos caves. As it turns out after some initial problems, that became easy too. Just play smart and understand your character's abilities. Some other apu's I was talking to didn't believe me when I said I could solo the chaos caves. They were each amazed when they tried and could do it just as well, once they had the right mindset as an apu. At some point as a solo player you cross a line from easy to impossible. There is either no or very little cover to hide and/or the damage output is enough to kill you in the few seconds you are visible while shooting the mob. Bring along a ppu and it's no problem, when previously you had to hide you can now just stand out in the open. For the most powerful mobs, the ppu protects you so you can live long enough to shoot and return to cover. As a ppu myself hunting is most always boring, the only mobs that are a challenge to my defenses are instakillers. The second my shelter drops, I fall over dead just like anyone else. This is easily avoided tho by taking advantage of cover.
Greater damage output and Health does not make a mob more challenging. The environment, weaknesses, motion, inteligence, and many others are what truely make a fun/challenging mob to fight. For example how about the little Dragonfly. This mob has long been considered one of the deadliest threats in the wasteland, much worse then hovers. They are tiny, they move fast, they zip about in random directions, they shoot you with piercing from any distance, need I go on? If you can target them, they die easily, but the challenge is managing to target them. They are most often considered the deadliest because they are like hyenas, they pray on already weakened or unsuspecting targets. When you drive your hover into the lake and are swimming around trying to find a slope you can climb out on, the dragonflies are there hovering about and shooting you. One of the first things I did as a hacker was visit every lake/pool in the waste looking for belts of dragonfly victims. They also seem to find you while you're impaired, or already badly hurt from someone/something else. The most fiendish thing though is that their shots are most often leg shots and so slow you down. Just like shock, it can be the deciding factor in your death.
Make some bigger Grim chasers and Warbots (litterally bigger... like 2x to 5x the size) and put them somewhere cool... just out of the way from places where people want less challenging things, so that people don't have to use your content.
QuantumDelta
20-01-04, 23:13
I agree as well, go kill some NPCs.
:D
No seriously, I don't know what the NPCs were like on retail but when I saw'em on test they were fine.
Sure they hurt a bit but they were easily soloable...
Just like MC5.
Something like this has be mentioned before , but yeah agree no challenge. *Super mobs* would be fun, like 150/150 , some that spawn backup or some who didnt , well point would be u need a very huge team to get them would actually be fun and exixting.
Only thing that is a bit hard is doy hunting for the rest i cant imagine something hard in mob wise (not talking about lame boring mc5).
Well i sure hope they will implent this in doy , and not just some other mobs (some new 120/120 mobs would be very cool but STILL not a challenge if u are with lots of ppl).
•Super|\|ova•
20-01-04, 23:18
Originally posted by phunqe
Do another MC5 type of area, this time with the PP flamer guards :p
Now that could be interesting...
Or a small room full of brutes :lol: now that would be hard :lol:
i always wanted a 3 star aggy general in cellers at the end of the whole thing to kill as a boss :)
I wished they could fill the gaya mines with high lvl enemies(and they should give the proper xp aswell), cause there so empty and there fucking amazing...
A 127/127 at the end orso, its realy a pitty those mines arnt getting used for anything *sigh*
Boost the Mines :P
Yeah.. The empty gaya area in the Nemisis zone.. been in there but its just sitting there.. with a zone count of 0.. Why dont they add some hard mobs there?
And there several mines so why not in every one of them a special type of super mobs :D, guess we can keep on dreaming....
They make supermobs but then they are making them for a game thats fucked up...a doy bot for instance...u get hit once and loose most hp, then it goes back up, its stupid.....
I dont think u can solo anything on ur own, just u and it, not u it and the mountain/hiding place next to u, id like to see an apu solo the caves without standing behind a wall where they cant hit him/her,...id like to see someone solo a y commander, id like to see someone solo a doy high lvl bot, id like to see someone solo a doomharbinger...there are lots of things that arent solo'able in this game, the only thing is, u can hide, it cant...make mobs able to jump/open doors [properly] walk around the place like they know where there going and not up the side of an 80degree mountain or walking into walls when there is a walkway up 2ft away, give high lvl mobs a higher range [i dont see why a dragonfly can shoot further than a grim]....make mobs so that they run equal or faster than u, no running of if u thought u was a big guy trying to piss a 120/120 grim off on ur own, because as much as u all say there solo'able, there not...no one can stand eye to eye with one and kill it before it kills u [unless ur hybrid maybe, but not soon].
Its not the point of bein alone , cause ur almost never alone. And why would supermobs fuck anything up, if u have like 5-8 players where u gonne go lvl?, u will not even have the slightest challenge.
I dont see what ''not to be able to solo anything unless u hide has anything 2 do with super mobs really''
And grim chasers are solo'able cause u can kill them alone that simple.
Without running away like a weak little fag boy, i dont think so.....hes saying everything u can solo and im telling u why u cant solo everything. Supermobs would fuck everything up cuz of the hp yoyo, to be a supermob they would need to do extreme dmg and fast and as the current hard mobs make u loose like 300hp a hit for a few seconds [where u cant run properly either] imagine something thats 'super' u would get hit once, have no hp, move like run like uve shit ur pants and die in the next shot without even touching the thing, yeh, phun cant wait :rolleyes:
The environment and what you can take advantage of is part of what you consider when talking about the difficulty of a mob. Noone really cares that if you run right up to it and whack away, a Grim Chaser will most likely kill you. If you keep your distance and hide behind hills/objects, you can kill the Grim Chaser without much difficulty. That is what we base the difficulty on. MC5 has instakill mobs which are in a confined space with limited cover. We consider this difficult because they easily run around and render the cover useless. However, you can bring a ppu along and mc5 is nolonger very difficult, just time consuming.
how about mobs that are INSANELY fast...once you piss them off, they can run like a runner with 200 agility and 200 athletics, so you have two choices...fight or die
that would be sweet
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