View Full Version : Spies Nerfed?
i know a lot of people are probably sick of spies moaning but i just wanto clear this up.
how come spies dont have any DECENT energy or fire armour?
they do have the heavy energy/fire belts but psi monks can use it and there armour still gives some energy resist, same with fire i think. and wot annoys me even more is the fact that spy pa doesnt even give any energy resist?, i know it gives x-ray but i wud appreciate even a small drop in x-ray and a slight energy resist, since we can also use x-ray bones. maybe even a slight increase in str so spies can at least use light inq boots.
i know probably a lot may disagree but this wud give spies a lot more of a opportunity in PvP combat. some people might say well in place of the low resists we have the FL and disruptor but still even if a spy has any other subskill like some driving or extra high tech combat its almost impossible to cap them, im not even sure if its possible to cap with a complete combat setup, which makes them, ecspecially the FL in most cases, crap and pritty hard to use in pvp.
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:41
They aren't supposed to get hit. Hence the low CON.
Either go for ranged weapons (rifles, guh) or spec runspeed and Get Some Skills™.
i know they are meant for range but it shud be able to have a PvP/dueling alternative. anyways even if they earnt meant to get hit and they do a few times they drop like one hell of a big bag of shit o_O
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:49
Spies are GREAT in PvP. Just so long as they stay at a range. A spy with a capped Disruptor can kill nigh anyone before they get close to him. Sadly, they just aren't supposed to do close-range combat. Same way as monks aren't supposed to do any sniping.
they should have 5 more con to have the same natural defense as an apu, and maybe some dex based armour or bringing inq 1 down a bit
ya wud be nice if they had the capability, not to own PvP dueling, but to at least do better then before
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 20:13
Kamikaze Disruptor spies are pretty lethal at close range. That thing eats through STEEL.
Originally posted by cRazy2003
i know a lot of people are probably sick of spies moaning but i just wanto clear this up.
how come spies dont have any DECENT energy or fire armour?
they do have the heavy energy/fire belts but psi monks can use it and there armour still gives some energy resist, same with fire i think. and wot annoys me even more is the fact that spy pa doesnt even give any energy resist?, i know it gives x-ray but i wud appreciate even a small drop in x-ray and a slight energy resist, since we can also use x-ray bones. maybe even a slight increase in str so spies can at least use light inq boots.
i know probably a lot may disagree but this wud give spies a lot more of a opportunity in PvP combat. some people might say well in place of the low resists we have the FL and disruptor but still even if a spy has any other subskill like some driving or extra high tech combat its almost impossible to cap them, im not even sure if its possible to cap with a complete combat setup, which makes them, ecspecially the FL in most cases, crap and pritty hard to use in pvp.
Theres one thing spies need. Lower Inqui1 and Duri1 reqs by 3 str. Thats all.
Even already you can setup great pvp spies. I got 330 health, enr, fire and xray above 100, i am damn fast, i got 197 r-c. I can cast shelter if i'm on my own and i waste the average tank/pe/apu even in close combat.
shodanjr_gr
19-01-04, 23:40
Spies shouldnt do long range combat, spies should be snipers. If a spy decides to do short range combat he should be ready to accept the consiquences and spec some(=tons) of agil/athl to get over his low defenses. Furthermore he has stealth. And if setup right he can drug for shelter or wear inq/dura armor.
And i agree with Mummbly, some peeps should Get Some Skills(tm)
the gimpage you get towards your weapon skill is not worth it in most cases though as your basically a PE with less base defense (except for xray) and even though u can use the higher tl wep u wont be nearly as effective if you were able to overspec more.
my tank is xx/62 *
he gets his arse handed to him regulaly by divide (who is a spy) in close range dueling
nuff said
Originally posted by subsys
my tank is xx/62 *
he gets his arse handed to him regulaly by divide (who is a spy) in close range dueling
nuff said
Thanks for the reconition :)
Yes, PVP spies are possible.
No they dont have to just sit in plaza.
Yes it takes some thought.
Yes they need to have capped dex, most of the time you need capped int.
Yes inq armor should have a lowered req, but duranit can shag off because the resists on it suck.
Yes I kill about 90% of the tanks/spies/pe's and about 60% of the apu's I come across. Damn apu's and their ease of dmg type switching.
Spies have slowly been getting great toys: stealth tools, new rares, new armors that completely negate the need for any con points dedicated to xray.
Spies have been the only class that have been repeatedly improved, and probably will keep being improved until people stop bitching about how their cst or res spy cant own people in PvP.
Originally posted by Divide
Spies have been the only class that have been repeatedly improved, and probably will keep being improved until people stop bitching about how their cst or res spy cant own people in PvP.
HAHAHAH thats class
my tank is xx/62 *
he gets his arse handed to him regulaly by divide (who is a spy) in close range dueling
nuff said
So that ONE spy is supposed to represent the majority of combat spies in the game.....that makes total sense. ;) :rolleyes:
:lol:
Originally posted by Divide
Thanks for the reconition :)
Yes, PVP spies are possible.
No they dont have to just sit in plaza.
Yes it takes some thought.
Yes they need to have capped dex, most of the time you need capped int.
Yes inq armor should have a lowered req, but duranit can shag off because the resists on it suck.
Yes I kill about 90% of the tanks/spies/pe's and about 60% of the apu's I come across. Damn apu's and their ease of dmg type switching.
Spies have slowly been getting great toys: stealth tools, new rares, new armors that completely negate the need for any con points dedicated to xray.
Spies have been the only class that have been repeatedly improved, and probably will keep being improved until people stop bitching about how their cst or res spy cant own people in PvP.
Divide, i want your babies.
This says it all. But shhhht, i like being the only pvp spy on my server!
Lower Inqui1 armor reqs by about 3. And spies are fine.
NO WAIT.
MAKE THE HIGH END RIFLES USEFUL. As it is now, a good RoG PE totally outdamages a spy. Any spy. RoG got way too easy aiming and way too high dmg. I mean why should i actually bother with a fucking TL115 DISRUPTOR when i can cap the RoF on a TL 98 gun THAT NEARLY NEVER MISSES. AND DOES A SHITLOAD OF DAMAGE.
A PE equal of my skill with a good resist setup beats the shit out of me before i can even bring him down to half health. And that is with 90% of my TL 115 DISRUPTOR shots hitting his fucking head.
Oh what else to complain about...yey thanks to PE PAs and SA chips theres PEs using my spy high end rifles. Not with the dmg and aiming i can get on em. But with way better defenses than i could ever get.
Ah well, at least i am fucking unique. But who cares about that? o_O
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Divide, i want your babies.
This says it all. But shhhht, i like being the only pvp spy on my server!
Lower Inqui1 armor reqs by about 3. And spies are fine.
NO WAIT.
MAKE THE HIGH END RIFLES USEFUL. As it is now, a good RoG PE totally outdamages a spy. Any spy. RoG got way too easy aiming and way too high dmg. I mean why should i actually bother with a fucking TL115 DISRUPTOR when i can cap the RoF on a TL 98 gun THAT NEARLY NEVER MISSES. AND DOES A SHITLOAD OF DAMAGE.
A PE equal of my skill with a good resist setup beats the shit out of me before i can even bring him down to half health. And that is with 90% of my TL 115 DISRUPTOR shots hitting his fucking head.
Oh what else to complain about...yey thanks to PE PAs and SA chips theres PEs using my spy high end rifles. Not with the dmg and aiming i can get on em. But with way better defenses than i could ever get.
Ah well, at least i am fucking unique. But who cares about that? o_O
Actually, if a pe is going to gimp himself to those extremes, I highly doubt he will have a con setup much better than your average /60 spy-- good thing they can shelter :(
Originally posted by Divide
Actually, if a pe is going to gimp himself to those extremes, I highly doubt he will have a con setup much better than your average /60 spy-- good thing they can shelter :(
Con 40 compared to con 60. If you take out all implants that might help with resists, thats 100 points more to spend on a PE's con. And now think again. o_O
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Con 40 compared to con 60. If you take out all implants that might help with resists, thats 100 points more to spend on a PE's con. And now think again. o_O
Trust me, I wont lead you astray-- a setup with a pe to get up to 115 dex has to be gimped in STR, so they will have to go down 1 level, they dont have an armor that takes care of an entire resist.
Int for a med energy belt is hard to come by when you are using shit like moto3's and veh3's to get your dex up.
Not to mention that if he wants even half decent damage on those weapons he will have next to no agi skilled.
Spies are great in PvP but they have to be very high level to use Heavy Belts. Try heavy energy belt and you'll see the nice difference.
I truly think that spy is the most balanced class in the game.
The only thing that could be added is an AOE weapon.
Mumblyfish
20-01-04, 10:33
Yeah. If pistols had an AoE weapon for spies then there'd be a "good" difference between rifles and pistols.
IE rifles can do both short and long range extremely well, pistols can do short range and area of effect.
I have one question.
Why do people always pretend pistol spies dont exist?
My pistol spy can hand most other spies their asses on a plate without even using shelter but unfortuantely I never got to use her against Kid Brainic or Opti Grrr after I lommed her to shelter hacker pistol spy.
Tbh personally I think rifle spies take the easy option for both pvp and for levelling by using rifles because they normally stay miles away from thise they are fighting and as soon as the get close they stealth and run to miles away again.
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Divide, i want your babies.
This says it all. But shhhht, i like being the only pvp spy on my server!
Lower Inqui1 armor reqs by about 3. And spies are fine.
NO WAIT.
MAKE THE HIGH END RIFLES USEFUL. As it is now, a good RoG PE totally outdamages a spy. Any spy. RoG got way too easy aiming and way too high dmg. I mean why should i actually bother with a fucking TL115 DISRUPTOR when i can cap the RoF on a TL 98 gun THAT NEARLY NEVER MISSES. AND DOES A SHITLOAD OF DAMAGE.
A PE equal of my skill with a good resist setup beats the shit out of me before i can even bring him down to half health. And that is with 90% of my TL 115 DISRUPTOR shots hitting his fucking head.
Oh what else to complain about...yey thanks to PE PAs and SA chips theres PEs using my spy high end rifles. Not with the dmg and aiming i can get on em. But with way better defenses than i could ever get.
Ah well, at least i am fucking unique. But who cares about that? o_O
Man your in FLUX nearly every member has a combat spy that they use to some extent.
RoG should be swapped with FL making RoG tl 113 and FL tl98 and changing the damage to accomidate this.
PEs using disrupter and SHs?
Now you know how I feel every time I see a PE running about with a RoLH in his hand.
Unique? Nah lots like you man may not opwar with spies so much or start as many fights in PP with spies but plenty of combat spies seems to be a fad atm.
Lower inq by 3 str? Somebody doesnt want to use a str booster 2 me thinks.
Yeah. If pistols had an AoE weapon for spies then there'd be a "good" difference between rifles and pistols
Have you ever seen the mini rocket launcher pistols? They are AoE weapons....dont do much dmg but still AoE.
Why should a spy have to use practically all str imps just for some half decent armor when all the other classes get it handed to them???
More dex armor KK, lots more.
Mumblyfish
20-01-04, 15:47
I'd rather spies not get more "traditional" armour. That's what PEs are for. Why not give the spies something different? Like armour which increases agility? Actually make them silent, stealthy... spies.
Originally posted by StrongSad
More dex armor KK, lots more.
Bad Idea has to have a dex and int req on it or PEs will have even batter armour making them even stronger.
I like the agility idea or an armour that give a partial cloak but still gives a normal hitbox but makes them harder to see approaching so they can get the drop on you.
greendonkeyuk
20-01-04, 18:55
armour requiring Dex AND int however would be ok. it would be unique to spies then. i agree with the armour req lowering, but only on inq boots. I dont think inq 1 needs lowering all the way across the board.
Anyway with the release of hacknet how many of these shelter spies are gonna be moving back to 100+ hack skills for that?
I guess I dont really want us to have "decent" armor of any kind. My view of spies is that we are extra vulnerable, more so than any other class. Hence we resort to long range sniping, rather than close-in fighting ... and those who *do* choose to be up close will tend to die pretty fast unless they are highly skilled. Where we have an edge is not with armor but with stealth, *that* is our ace in the hole and will often keep us alive in circumstances where we would otherwise kick the bucket.
A fear I have is that with better armor, on top of stealth which a lot of people really hate, KK will eventually be persuaded to haul out their nerf bat and hit us hard, *real* hard ... so I kinda want to avoid that, and I figure leaving the armor situation the way it is now is one way of avoiding future trouble. We have it pretty good now, lets not tempt fate ;)
Dont know enough about droner spies to comment about their situation vis-a-vis armor.
Spook
JackScratch
20-01-04, 19:19
On the subject of balance - Concerning the balance of the classes, congruent does not mean equal. To achieve balance, all factors and abilities have to be taken into consideration and compared. All classes have strengths and weakness'. I am not going to go through and list them, you can do that yourself. Sufice it to say that the spies weakness is the ability to absorb damage, a weakness that is large, but because their strengths are great. For balance, KK is not required to make it si that every class can go toe to toe and end in an ultimate draw. Their are so many more factors to concider when concidering balance, that to simply weigh in the ability to deal and absorb damage would be retarded. This game is complicated, extremely complicated, and I am sick to death of the stupid, simplistic balance arguements I constantly see on these forums.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY THE CLASSES ARE BALANCED, THEN RE - FREEKING - ROLL TO THAT ULTRA UBER CLASS YOU ARE SEEING AND SHUT THE HELL UP!
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Lower inq by 3 str? Somebody doesnt want to use a str booster 2 me thinks.
I'm not using a str booster 2. ;)
Why i want the reqs lowered by 3 is because atm you have to use THREE str implants or lots of drugs just to get some fire resistance.
And thats shit. Cause spies are dex not str based. And 2 brainslots and the backbone slot wasted on that just sucks.
Originally posted by Jerto
Spies are great in PvP but they have to be very high level to use Heavy Belts. Try heavy energy belt and you'll see the nice difference.
I truly think that spy is the most balanced class in the game.
The only thing that could be added is an AOE weapon.
I agree fully.
its not all together the face some spies can do well in pvp its a part of the fact if they get hit once with a cs they are half dead, unless they use shelter, which they need to drug to use
oh no....you have done it. Here come all the "uber" spies who claim they can survive 3 Devourer clips are 20 CS clips. Here we go!!!
@ JackScratch...so we are supposed to just jump on the bandwagon everytime a class become way overpowered? Do you like Backstreet Boys? I hear they are popular.
Mumblyfish
21-01-04, 00:07
The intelligence level here is dropping like mad.
Internet Moron: "HEY! INSTEAD OF NERFING OTHER CLASSES WHY DON'T YOU BOOST THE OTHER ONES?"
Community: "How's about we boost the Pistol Spies?"
Internet Moron: "ROLL A PE, FUCKDICK!!"
Mumbly: "I had no idea you liked cock."
Mumbly > Most people in this thread -> I rock.
Well exk-k-k-k-k-kyoooooouuuuuze me!
Originally posted by StrongSad
oh no....you have done. Here come all the "uber" spies who claim they can survive 3 Devourer clips are 20 CS clips. Here we go!!!
@ JackScratch...so we are supposed to just jump on the bandwagon everytime a class become way overpowered? Do you like Backstreet Boys? I hear they are popular.
How bout a post that makes some sense instead of just bitching?
My next char will either be a disruptor spy or a Melee PE with PoT and stealth (ninja stylee)... anyone got any tips on making a disruptor spy? Where you being serious with the rifle Kami chip comment Mumbly, because I suppose with a high TL stealth then you probably wouldn't be hit and you can just move around a bit then shoot again. I don't want a pistol spy because I have a pistol PE already...
And yes Divide is very good... I just cannot beat him god dammit :(
Spies really only need a way to get a little bit better runspeed without mega gimpage on resists or rc/pc (ath is really the limiting factor more so than agil). That's it. Oh, and make the RoLH 107 dex so that you don't need an SA to use it and have decent resists. As it is, I simply would not bother with a pistol spy with no SA -- go rifles and use a RoG instead so that you don't have to cram in a moto 3 in addition to the str booster and zerk. A 5 TL drop on shelter would be nice, but certainly not necessary.
Spies are generally the weakest of the three gun-wielding classes, but their defense is IMO not terribly out of proportion with their offense if set up properly.
JackScratch
21-01-04, 00:30
StrongSad, thankyou for makeing my position crystal clear. That position being the Nerf people are only capeable of reading that which is typed in all capital letters. Had you read the rest of my post, I might would have been interested in giveing you an inteligent reply. On the other hand, had you read the rest of my post, I wouldn't have needed to.
@ Jack...well I read the bulk of it and from what I could gather you were trying to defend the lack of balance in Neocron to the fact that it is complicated. It was a sad attempt however if you think the logic of Neocron is sound in any way shape or form. As for the caps...I was not aware you were trying to be sarcastic, though from what you wrote above you gave me the impression of someone who hops from class to class every patch.
@ Kid....look whos talking!! :rolleyes: Your bitching about me bitching (although I was CLEARLY not bitching but being sarcastic). I have a spy to so chill out.
Darth Slayer
21-01-04, 01:18
I like my spy. I own where ever I go nowadays unless a PPU turns up or someone finds my Body............:lol:
Snow's Pistol Spy is damn good and Kid Brainiac is probaly the best Rifle Spy on Uranus tho I did have him running like a Biatch the other nite......:D
Originally posted by Darth Slayer
I like my spy. I own where ever I go nowadays unless a PPU turns up or someone finds my Body............:lol:
Snow's Pistol Spy is damn good and Kid Brainiac is probaly the best Rifle Spy on Uranus tho I did have him running like a Biatch the other nite......:D
Hell you annoyed me! I had a tank and a PE nearly down and both times your evil drone turned up and i had to run for my life. ;)
Worst about all is that i got away alive but then i accidently ran into a TG guard one zone east cause i was blinded by a drugflash and died in about 2 seconds...:p
QuantumDelta
21-01-04, 06:45
A very well setup pistol/rifle spy can actually exceed a PE in most areas ;)
It's just fussier to use(if that's possible..)
it wud be nice if the redeemer did aoe damage like the mal since they both fusion, kinda makes more sense.
Darth Slayer
21-01-04, 20:02
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Hell you annoyed me! I had a tank and a PE nearly down and both times your evil drone turned up and i had to run for my life. ;)
Worst about all is that i got away alive but then i accidently ran into a TG guard one zone east cause i was blinded by a drugflash and died in about 2 seconds...:p
U just made my day......:lol:
Seriously that was a fun evening for all concerned and all for the most part without a PPU
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