View Full Version : stacks against my shields
please mr. gms don't move my post!
ok, am getting pissed off as my ppu when am getting stacked up to the roof with poison, dev, fire...whatever, and i can't see my fucking shelters and heals, and not knowing weather they are running out or what... this has gotten me killed a few times... and is kinda lame...
hehe i love doing that trick on ppus i just watch em go "oh fuck did s/d run out?!?!?!"
Original monk
19-01-04, 13:04
a good ppu yust feels when he's shelters run out :)
now thats PSI-POWER :P
Originally posted by Original monk
...now thats PSI-POWER :P
lol, right, thats what antipoison spells are for :)
I started on a keylogger/triggering application a while back. I know it worked in DirectX games, but I don't remember how far I got with the development.
Basically, you could configure the program to set alarms depending on certain keystrokes/events.
For example you could set "KEY 3 + MOUSE1" to set a timer of 30 secs. Then when it is about to run out (configurable), it starts to tick. Then when it completely runs out, it beeps.
I guess I might be able to find and finish the program. I don't know if you are allowed to use it however.
Still, it's not a scripting program...
Richard Slade
19-01-04, 13:36
They should just have one poison input showing x2-x6834
instead so u can see all u got
Psyco Groupie
19-01-04, 13:38
considering the spells that gonna run out is at the bottom and you didnt miss it running out then its still there ....
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Richard Slade
They should just have one poison input showing x2-x6834
instead so u can see all u got
Good idea, that thing is very annoying, but
OMG!!!!! Slade, you comming back to Neo or something ?
//Radium
Richard Slade
19-01-04, 13:43
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
considering the spells that gonna run out is at the bottom and you didnt miss it running out then its still there ....
:rolleyes:
How about this
You got 20poisons running out about the same time
All around so when your stuff run out
the poisons do to
so it's somewhere here when it runs out:
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Kinda.
@retr0n:
I dunno if ppl would like that really
SH up yer buttocks bugs them PE's ;)
I'll have Armi check DoY first and then we'll see.
In time we all come back
THAT is a fact.
Yes or the poison could stack like the dmg boost but with unlimited
amout of stacks, and as you said earlier a little number that shows
how many stacks you currently have on you but when the first
stack runs out, so do the others aswell...
@Slade: Well last time i talked to armi he was very upset untill
he got layed... anyway he's playing gay SWG now, and there was
some talk about comming back and starting fresh on pluto? did you
ditch that idea?
//Radium
Richard Slade
19-01-04, 13:51
Originally posted by retr0n
Yes or the poison could stack like the dmg boost but with unlimited
amout of stacks, and as you said earlier a little number that shows
how many stacks you currently have on you but when the first
stack runs out, so do the others aswell...
//Radium
Ya. With 200 poisons on me I really don't care when FIRST goes
But last.
Seriously..
KK! DO!
why doesnt all s/d's and heals and all buffs stay at the bottom of the stack instead of being pushed up by the poison/fire stacks? 0_o
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:13
Yay! Let's get rid of ANOTHER way to kill PPUs! Next stop, replace Antibuff with teddy bears! Woo and yay!
It doesn't just affect PPUs.. it pisses me right off that my whole screen is covered in "Poison" tickers.. is it really necessary?
THen again.. grouping them all up into one icon would mean that you would never know which ones were about to run out soon... *sigh* back to the drawing board.
Eddie
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 19:29
O shut the fuck up mumbly this is not a fucking intended way to kill ppu's.
Its fucking HORSESHIT that i cast all my buffs deflector shelter... THEN i get stacks on me AND THE STACKS START AT THE BOTTOM? and push my buff icons up rather then starting on top of the buffs.
Please this is not a valid fucking way to kill a ppu. You ppu haters are to fuckin stupid and blind with hatred that anything fucked up with ppu's will never get fucking fixed.
If I died to the power of a devrouer shit I dont care. Dying because im in an op fight and i have 20 poisin beam stacks and a devourer hitting me and cant tell if my shelters on or not is fucking bullshit and you know it. You just hate ppus to fuckin much to admit it.
Yes I think ppu's are to godlike/important but keeping this in isnt a fucking way to fix that.
How dare you be retarded enough to compare this to anti buff. One is put in the game designed to help kill ppu;s the other is a fuck up on kk's part by making damage indicators appearing under the buffs and pushing them up.
Does it really matter what poison stacks are coming off first, its not like you have a choice of what ones you want the drugs/ anti poison to take off and if your going to die knowing one stack is going to come off soon doesnt really help. Id go with a number next to one poison stack telling you how many are on you.
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:33
Sigh...
I too rely heavily on buffs. However, when I start getting stacked, I take measures to get rid of as many of them as possible. Be it hammering anti-poison drugs, or in the case of the Devourer, simply not getting hit by it (it's not hard at all, Christ...). To me, stacking damage is a valid for of attacking. You confuse the opponent. When stacked, you may have to run or (gasp) take drugs. It makes PvP that little more EXCITING. It's not all about drawing one weapon then hammering away until one person falls over.
Next you're going to tell me that attacking from behind is a bullshit tactic.
I dont think its a big prob atm either, you should be able to tell when your shelters are coming off, and if you've got poison stacked off your screen and arent doing anything about it then thats the problem. :p Shelter or not remove the poison first as 9 stacks (afaik what can be seen on the screen) will kill you quick if you dont. Also being that a ppu is the easiest class to combat poison with i dont see a huge prob.
And against the argument of consolidating the stacks into one icon, i dont see this is a prob either, yes it will be easier to tell if your shelter goes but your going to die to the poison if not removed, poison and anti buff will still be a deadly killer, either way the ppu has to re-heal re-shelter and cast anti poison all you have to do is spam hl in the confusion.
KK shouldn't be putting this at the top of their list of things to do imo.
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 19:45
Attacking from behind and stacks cant even remotely be compared or your antibuff comparison. Of course attacking from behind is valid. How can you even compare the two. Attacking form behind is the same as in real life may be a bit cheap but its doable and in war everything is fair. But now this is just borked game mechanics.
Come on honestly does it make sense that the latest icon to appear on you appears at the bottom?
Sometimes I have to deal with you know actualy tending to my clan mates and Ive specced enough poisin resist to not worry at all about how many stacks I got on me so I may as well be able to enjoy that benefit and not have to cast antipoisin every 2 seconds.
It only takes one devourer burst for my icons to hit the top of the screen and only a couplr bursts before I cant see them at all. Even if I depoisined they can just hit me again with one burst and my shelter would be jumping up and down like a mad man.
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:47
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Come on honestly does it make sense that the latest icon to appear on you appears at the bottom?
They appear at the bottom so you can always tell what the last status effect put on you was.
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 19:48
Thats bullshit the spell you cast first should go at the bottom at slot 0 on your quickbelt. Any icon after that should appear on top of it one after the other.
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 19:48
Wow i swear I only clicked it once.
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:53
Sigh... why isn't this a valid tactic for taking someone out? Really?
This has the simplest combat system of any RPG I've ever played. Things like this actually make PvP that little more cerebral and interesting. Yet we all want to simplify it more, so that we can all go back to fighting everyone the same way.
At times, even EverQuest has more interesting battles than Neocron... O_o
Disturbed021
19-01-04, 19:54
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
To me, stacking damage is a valid for of attacking. You confuse the opponent. When stacked, you may have to run or (gasp) take drugs. It makes PvP that little more EXCITING. It's not all about drawing one weapon then hammering away until one person falls over.
I doubt kk intended for the posion stacks to confuse ppl so they're unsure of their spells running out.
And I bet you think using low tl heals/shelters for killing a PPU is valid as well?
Its a cheap dirty tactic that was not intended and will be takin care of in kk's sweet time, prolly.
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 19:55
O fuckin plz.
PPUS ARE OVERPOWERED/ TOO IMPORTANT
I admit it but that doesnt mean shit like this should be in game. If you want valid tactics to take out a ppu ask for spies to get some sort of new toy. Ask for tanks to get a new toy.
Dont tell me FUCKED UP game mechanics is using tactics. Thats retarded.
Mumblyfish
19-01-04, 19:57
Originally posted by Disturbed021
And I bet you think using low tl heals/shelters for killing a PPU is valid as well?
Yeah. That's why they give you a ticker when your buffs are running out. Get the hell away so you can cast your own buffs.
Although giving people crappy primaries is outright nasty.
Eledhbrant
19-01-04, 20:17
Please tell me what bloody good a ticker is when its Antibuff-TL25 Shelter? hmm? NOTHING you can do except escape and get a teammate to antibuff you or hope some dumb enemy antibuffs you again.
As for the stacks, no, to whoever said if you have that much poison your gonna die, because with a properly organised PPU you can outheal poison WITHOUT antidote, any amount of poison. But someone can antibuff you silently (yes you can do it without the noise) and you wont know if your shields are gone. Which is bullshit, a player should always be able to see if their shields are off.
I want a Poison x1-x9999 indicator etc.
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
As for the stacks, no, to whoever said if you have that much poison your gonna die, because with a properly organised PPU you can outheal poison WITHOUT antidote, any amount of poison. But someone can antibuff you silently (yes you can do it without the noise) and you wont know if your shields are gone. Which is bullshit, a player should always be able to see if their shields are off.
The anti buff removes the heal as well, so the poison will hurt . Imo a ppu who tries to outheal poison when they have have spells to remove it needs to re-evaluate tactics.
edit: ppus are almost balanced atm with the exception of para, there are ways to kill them, tl 3 heal, anti-buff, poison etc, by taking these means away it will simply start people complaining again about them being overpowered and get them a worse nerf.
Psycho Killa
19-01-04, 20:39
Why remove it when a beam does like 40 damage to me over the course of 12 seconds when i can cast a heal that does 30 a tick in like half a second.
And yes I do remove them but if i have to decide between getting a heal off on my dieing teammate or removing poisin that poses no threat at all to me what do i chose?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Why remove it when a beam does like 40 damage to me over the course of 12 seconds when i can cast a heal that does 30 a tick in like half a second.
And yes I do remove them but if i have to decide between getting a heal off on my dieing teammate or removing poisin that poses no threat at all to me what do i chose?
In the first situation you remove it because you never know whats going to happen next, what if you get debuffed and spammed with hl down to so little health that that little bit of poison kills you.
But yes i agree there can be more important things to do in a battle but removeing poison should still be done, after you've healed and buffed the team-mate for example.
My point is this shouldnt be at the top of kk's list of fixes, i dont think its that important being that you can remove it easily...if you want to see if your shelter is on remove the poison.
Okay havent red the latest few posts, but however the reason why
this needs to be reworked is because everybody doesnt run on
a 1600x1200 resolution, if you run 800x600 or even 640x480 you
can see a few stacks and then it's gone out of screen wich sucks
badly.
//Radium
IT should have [(/) Poison X 3] or something like that instead of the stacks spamming up ya screen..:)
left side of the screen should show attacking stack ie: fire, poision, shock
and the right side should have the normal buffs.
shelter doesnt protect against poison anyways.....plus if youre in doubt cast that shit....dont look for a lil symbol
Originally posted by extract
shelter doesnt protect against poison anyways.....plus if youre in doubt cast that shit....dont look for a lil symbol
Read the 1st post m8.. people stack it up so high that he dont know if he has shelters or not..
Mumblyfish
20-01-04, 01:34
Read what he said again.
"If in doubt, cast it", it's not like it saps away at your pool like crazy.
Psycho Killa
20-01-04, 01:37
I think there should be a law passed that everyone should play a ppu once so they realize how fuckin hard it is to be a ppu in an op fight.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Read what he said again.
"If in doubt, cast it", it's not like it saps away at your pool like crazy.
Hmm.. why should have have 2 guess when the problem can be fixed easily by KK?
Ok lets get technical here.........If you cant see the symbol...cast a shelter anyways again....ALSO again if in doubt heal youreself.....when youre healing the little yellow bars will blink letting you know youre shelter is up.......or if you dont see em, youre fucked cause youre looking for a symbol instead of just casting the damn shit........btw I understand what u mean.....but there are ways around it also.......
I was gonnna start a thread about this, but it's nice to see someone already did. Everyone who is against fixing the poison stacking can sit down and shut up. You are trying to justify an abuse of the game mechanics because of unbalanced classes. Two wrong's don't make a right. If Microsoft is charging outrageous prices for their software because they have a monopoly, that doesn't mean I can steal and spread around pirated versions. Robin Hood may be a nice story and feel moraly right, but the ethics are totaly bad. Stealing is Stealing nomatter if the victim deserves it. I could go on and on with examples. I really could care less if you use abusive tactics, but when you act as if they are legit, that's crossing the line. Understand that you are taking advantage of the game's interface/design, you are not killing the ppu, the game is killing the ppu. When someone is stuck in synch and are killed while standing there, do you consider that a skillful kill? No, the game killed the person, not the player.
If I die to a dev or to some other enormous set of poison stacks, that is perfectly fine for me. If I die because the stacks shoved my shelter off the screen, that is not fine. I died because of the game's interface, not because you attacked me or you have any skill in playing the game. It's the same with tl3 heals etc, but that's a different topic. The dev seriously does not bother me much, I have properly setup my resists so I'm mostly protected from poison. It is not the poison that kills me! It's the stupid stacks not letting me see my buff status. For the ignorant previous post saying we should just cast shelter all the time... yes let me see you cast shelter every second because your shelter might go down : p How about your sanctums? How about your primary buffs? For a ppu to be sucessful they need to be aware of the status of their buffs, a ppu that lets buffs fall is a dead ppu.
It's really getting aggrivating how much people hate ppu's and how ignorantly they approve of anything which harms us. We have an enormous list of bugs and problems that ppu's hafta deal with. I believe I've listed them several times before in other threads. Yet rarely ever are our issues dealt with, we just get spells/stats messed with. We've already been weakened a good deal and I assume we'll be weakened even moreso in the future. There will come a point when the crap a ppu takes is greater then any enjoyment possible. Then I hope you assholes are happy that you wiped a class devoted to helping others off the map. I try to respect people's desire to fight without me helping, but when people act like it's my fault I'm the way I am... I'm more inclined to para spam them : p
Oh yea, my idea for a fix would be self castted spells on the right and foreign casted on the left. My buffs will stay in site on the right while poison/fire/dmg boost/shock etc will be free to stack as much as they want on the left. This will also help against the crap buffing, since you can see it appear on the left rather then the right. You instantly know you've been noob buffed.
Psycho Killa
20-01-04, 20:58
Exactly carinth ive been saying this about ppu's all along. Where overpowered sure but that doesnt justify using fucked up game mechanics to stay in the game because its the only way to kill us. These things should be removed and all classes should be balanced from there.
@Carinth: That was so well put it makes me wanna cry... agree 100% Wanna marry me?
//Radium
Eledhbrant
20-01-04, 21:42
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I think there should be a law passed that everyone should play a ppu once so they realize how fuckin hard it is to be a ppu in an op fight.
I totally agree.
Damn why cant you play on Saturn :P
It's not even just that they should play a ppu, they should play a combat ppu who takes care of a team of 5+. Some have a tradeskiller ppu or a pvm ppu, and then claim they know all about ppu's. Fighting mobs is great, and it definitly takes skill to keep a good sized group alive, especialy in some of the tougher places. But pvm is infinitinly easier then pvp. Pvm is very laid back, the ppu has time to do his job right. Pvp is over with before you even know it began. The pvp ppu is under pressure with a billion responsibilities within a fraction of the time a pvm ppu has. The ppu's everyone loves (or hates) are the ones that sucessfuly pull off being a pvp ppu. Sure its nice of a ppu to help you level, and sometimes needed for hunting. But its the ppu on your team while you're facing the enemy chargin at you, that you really depend on. Unless you have been that ppu, you have not experienced what we're talking about.
I really don't mean to sound elitest, but it's true. Everything a ppu has learned or worked for is tested during team combat. I've seen people start up ppu's and think it's great until they first participate in combat. They come back, tell me they don't know how I do it, and then reroll to another class. Some do tough it out and after gaining some combat experience, they become true ppu's. Going back to pvm after having done pvp is funny. It's like a breath of fresh air, so much easier. Often you end up even being a better pvm ppu because of your combat experience. You are aware of your team's status and react faster when they need you. The best is when you supply buffs just as their's run out, without needing them to say anything. Or you pull off a heal on a teamate running at full speed away because they have 10 health left.
Shadow Dancer
21-01-04, 00:03
Simple solution. Cut the "icon" bars in half, in terms of size. Then you can put 2 bars next to each other. Positive bars and Negative bars.
So you would have a poison stack 'next' to your hazard buff, and not underneath it.
I see no problem with this.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Simple solution. Cut the "icon" bars in half, in terms of size. Then you can put 2 bars next to each other. Positive bars and Negative bars.
So you would have a poison stack 'next' to your hazard buff, and not underneath it.
I see no problem with this.
Or just make it stack new icons on top of old ones not underneith it, then there won't be no problems with poison or fire pushing buff icons you have off the screen.
Shadow Dancer
21-01-04, 00:09
pffttt, that could work too. :p
I like it the way it is, mainly cos if it wasn't a good PPU would be unkillable for me (Gen-Tank) :lol:
Originally posted by El Barto
I like it the way it is, mainly cos if it wasn't a good PPU would be unkillable for me (Gen-Tank) :lol:
That is unfortuanetly the attitude we're ranting about : )
You shouldn't need to resort to things like this to kill us. We should not be supporting tactics like this, we should be suggesting ways to fix the game so we don't hafta use shady tactics. I would be totaly fine if ppu's were more balanced so you didn't need to use tricks to take us down. If we were actualy balanced and not just nerfed into nothing : p
Originally posted by Carinth
I was gonnna start a thread about this, but it's nice to see someone already did. Everyone who is against fixing the poison stacking can sit down and shut up. You are trying to justify an abuse of the game mechanics because of unbalanced classes. Two wrong's don't make a right. If Microsoft is charging outrageous prices for their software because they have a monopoly, that doesn't mean I can steal and spread around pirated versions. Robin Hood may be a nice story and feel moraly right, but the ethics are totaly bad. Stealing is Stealing nomatter if the victim deserves it. I could go on and on with examples. I really could care less if you use abusive tactics, but when you act as if they are legit, that's crossing the line. Understand that you are taking advantage of the game's interface/design, you are not killing the ppu, the game is killing the ppu. When someone is stuck in synch and are killed while standing there, do you consider that a skillful kill? No, the game killed the person, not the player.
If I die to a dev or to some other enormous set of poison stacks, that is perfectly fine for me. If I die because the stacks shoved my shelter off the screen, that is not fine. I died because of the game's interface, not because you attacked me or you have any skill in playing the game. It's the same with tl3 heals etc, but that's a different topic. The dev seriously does not bother me much, I have properly setup my resists so I'm mostly protected from poison. It is not the poison that kills me! It's the stupid stacks not letting me see my buff status. For the ignorant previous post saying we should just cast shelter all the time... yes let me see you cast shelter every second because your shelter might go down : p How about your sanctums? How about your primary buffs? For a ppu to be sucessful they need to be aware of the status of their buffs, a ppu that lets buffs fall is a dead ppu.
It's really getting aggrivating how much people hate ppu's and how ignorantly they approve of anything which harms us. We have an enormous list of bugs and problems that ppu's hafta deal with. I believe I've listed them several times before in other threads. Yet rarely ever are our issues dealt with, we just get spells/stats messed with. We've already been weakened a good deal and I assume we'll be weakened even moreso in the future. There will come a point when the crap a ppu takes is greater then any enjoyment possible. Then I hope you assholes are happy that you wiped a class devoted to helping others off the map. I try to respect people's desire to fight without me helping, but when people act like it's my fault I'm the way I am... I'm more inclined to para spam them : p
Oh yea, my idea for a fix would be self castted spells on the right and foreign casted on the left. My buffs will stay in site on the right while poison/fire/dmg boost/shock etc will be free to stack as much as they want on the left. This will also help against the crap buffing, since you can see it appear on the left rather then the right. You instantly know you've been noob buffed.
Agree's with everyword.
The people who fight alongside there PPU's in OP fights Know there value and how hard they have to work.......Pitty some people here are so small minded in trying to find What i would call borderline exploit / Lame Tactic to kill PPU's.
Either your a (Little ball of spite) PKer or Dont OP fight much.
When i play my PPU its non-stop requests for Buffs Heals Shields and Rezz's and pokes. I dont play PPU to Be Uber God like I Play to HELP other players in NC and take some of the Heavy Work Load from other PPU's at Opfights.
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