View Full Version : spy setups...
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 18:22
ok people... this is an are of much dispute these days.
the cmmunity seems to be split into 2 halves. those who think spies can be good if setup and played well, and those who think they should never leave Plaza.
i thought i would quickly put together a setup to show that they can be used in PvP. now. this is not likely to be the best, the most efficiant, or the easiest setup... but its my setup.
i havent capped my spy, parts of this setup are untested. i dont know if i cap a ROLH with that pc, i dont know if i cap RoF with that weapon lore, etc etc.
this is a drug free (although it can drug for shelter) setup.
stats include pistol booster 1, spy booster 1 and basic resist booster 2.
http://dz.cryon.net/files/ncjunkie_spypvp.jpg
Close to what I am 'working' towards on Saturn.
Except less ATL, he's got 400+ HP after buffs, and his resists are a bit better, save for poison.
Also, in DEX, I put more in AGL and had T-C to 95.
And for the richer, swapping hte PP for the SA allows you to wear PA3 and use any rifle/pistol
Are you certain that's correct? I just checked and the second Spy PA with an SF, and the minus from the strength-booster would give you 107 dex, not 109.
MayhemMike
17-01-04, 18:32
I wish my spys setup was leet like that :(
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 18:37
Originally posted by Samhain
Close to what I am 'working' towards on Saturn.
Except less ATL, he's got 400+ HP after buffs, and his resists are a bit better, save for poison.
Also, in DEX, I put more in AGL and had T-C to 95.
And for the richer, swapping hte PP for the SA allows you to wear PA3 and use any rifle/pistol
i was worried about my pc being low... but you have more TC than me and more AGL? well i think it must be too low in your setup, and prolly in mine.
and i designed this setup without MC5's because i wanted it to be possible for any spy.
personally i like run speed. however i would be intregued as to how you got that much HP and better resists, without dropping load of runspeed.
@Folsom - no im not... i assumed this program knew what it was doing... ill have to have a look :D
:edit: looks like im saying yur wrong... what im saying is im not sure :)
you 107 dex, not 109.
That's correct, the setup is 107 not 109. Don't know what glitched on his, but it's been proper on my setup for as long as I've had this in motion
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 18:41
Originally posted by Samhain
That's correct, the setup is 107 not 109. Don't know what glitched on his, but it's been proper on my setup for as long as I've had this in motion
hmm... well...
ROLH is 108 right? so this setup would need an SA instead of an SF to work with a ROLH...
damn. i wanted a decent setup for the masses.
ill have to try losing the PPR for a +dex imp... but that will bork my resists
Anyone got a download / website link for the program used here?
Athon Solo
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 18:45
no...
however it was on www.neocronnetwork.de
im not german so there is no chance i will find it again :)
someone in the german community has the newer version in their sig, but i never remember who. posts have been made about it in the english forum, but GL using the forums shitty search service :lol:
Athon: The skill manager can be found here. (http://home.pages.at/smoker/skillmanager-2003-11-03.exe)
Junkie: I used the skillmanager to get that 107, so presumably you have a version with older/different stats.
With this setup, I wanted 95 T-C and I wanted to be able to stealth even when I didn't have rifle combat on. Don't want to be caught with my pants down because a buff wore out at the wrong time. So when I buff, I have more T-C than necessary, but oh well. In my opinion it's worth it.
P-C is 158 with buff 1.
WEP is 140 to make up for some potentially lost stats from the lower P-C, although these need to be finely tuned and I am 8 levels away from cap. hack is 105, enough for ops and belts, and psi use is 86. not that i know why it's like that, never really put much thought in to it. being able to runcast heal would be nice.
AGL is 89.
ATL is 10.
HTL is 122 (+43 modified = nice)
FIR = 61
ENR = 65
XRR = 10
POR = 5
HP = 441
With group defelctor and shelter:
FRC:6.15-5.76
PRC:6.53-6.12
FIR/ENR: 7-6.23
XRR:6.3-5.61
POR:32.13
oh yeah, and it's silly but I'd take 2 off of PPU and move it to PPW because 2 points in PPW is actually more beneficial than 1 point in PPU (.65 vs .7, i know its virtually nonexistant, but what the hell, it gives more mana anyway), and those 2 points in PPU translate to 4 points in PPW.
Just noticed something big!
Flip value in the math:
Set your resists in this setup to 58 fire, 61 energy
you get 9.44 pvp
now add a point to each
it goes UP!
so now, with shelter on, all my damages are lower than 7%.. and I just got 7 extra points in to ATL.. now it's 17... agl is 89... 106 vs your 150.. I'm not too much slower, but I've got over 100 more hp and better resists :P
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 19:02
ok... i am making a new setup... including a SA and drugging for shelter... i am using the newer version of the program too
see ya in a few
:edit:
89 agl, 10 ath?
thats too slow.
158 pc?
thats too low
IMHO of course... ill post a new setup in a min or 2
Dribble Joy
17-01-04, 19:04
To get decent stats on the RoLH, you will need more than 170 PC, 180 is probably more like it.
WEP does not affect RoF, so you will need the extra PC to get an acceptable speed.
The resists look ok though.
thats too slow.
we'll see, I've played with half of that for all of NC so far.
158 pc?
thats too low
I'm not going for RoLH though. Probably libby or wyatt with a judge.
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 19:12
ok i got my new setup done... but need a host
Use http://www.walagata.com good simple host.
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 19:16
http://venus.walagata.com/w/jesterthegreat/1634278.JPG
that includes the same buffs... and this includes the int/psi drug for shelter (and the shelter itself)
also the last version was the old program, which didnt take shelter / deflector into account
you can raise weapon lore by 1 point cant you?:P
Dribble Joy
17-01-04, 19:23
RoLH is tc 86.
Jesterthegreat
17-01-04, 19:24
yes...
that was a...
erm...
adminastrative error...
i claim no responsibilty!
ok i wasnt paying attetion :p
HAPPY?! :lol:
:edit:
@DJ crap... i knew there was a reason i had 90 tc... that allowed 86tc without the buff on!
well you people work around it, im not changing it all again! lol
:edit2: right... this program sucks too! i had to repeatedly set the spells to get it to work - and i ended up with 84 after buffs! lol
well it needs some alteration, but i think its a pretty good setup.
post something better... then you can moan :lol:
FirestarXL
17-01-04, 21:31
That's extremely similar to the one I have mapped out, although I have to spec a lot more weapon lore since I use rifles, and therefore my psi pool is nowhere near as large. Also, I prefer to leave my SF in rather than going for the proto chip. Plus, I didn'[t notice that you can use exp foot with that setup until I saw it on your first img (you put exp leg on your second for some reason), so thanks for that!
Not too convinced that the amount of RC I'll be left with is enough for what I want, however definitely worth a try.
QuantumDelta
17-01-04, 21:52
The reason for the dex difference is that junkeh has a different PA on.
158 PC is NOT enough pistol combat for liberator/blacksun no matter how much weapon lore you have.
Believe me I was a min-maxing Pistoler for a long long time.
Optimum if you're trying to budget your DEX is probably 169.
I would not call the liberator a weapon if you had PC under that (And this is a 120/120/120/120 silenced/xray/fire lib I'm talking about using for my experience).
But the question is, what can this spy do that any PE can't do?
Exp reflex 4
SF
Balance 3
Riggers
Motoric 3
PA 3
I can't be arsed to run the numbers, but I'm sure the PE would be much tougher, and not far behind in the dex subskills.
The only way a spy would be better than a PE for PvP is with the high dex rifles, but rifles don't really work in practice the way that they should in theory.
QuantumDelta
17-01-04, 22:47
hehehehe....
This Spy will be weaker than some PEs, quite correct.
However there is one or two spy configurations that are better than the best PE configs ;)
Though the PE config you just put out would probably not be all that great (imo anyway...)
No, not that great, but super easy to setup and cap. If you put as much effort into the PE that is going into this spy, he'd be much better, though (at least as a pistolero).
Shadow Dancer
17-01-04, 23:06
Hrmm. That spy has "slightly" better energy resist than my apu does unbuffed.
Wow alotof nice setups. but i hav to say this. it can be better
Mumblyfish
17-01-04, 23:24
My pistol spy has a pistol kamikaze in. To hell with resists, 210 P-C and crazy runspeed (with stealth 1) is so much fun it's unbelievable.
Just don't expect to kill anyone because of the low damage output on pistols :(
Im gotta try my best not to flame but i hate these type of threads... I see no problem in helping newbies by telling them good spots to hunt, what damage to watch out for in pvm or pvp so they can be prpaired or give a few small tips in resists but giving entire setups out on a silver platter like this ruins the fun in my opinion... 1/2 the fun in ANY game where you level is guilding you char.... I remade my barbarian in diablo 2 from level 1 up to the 90s like 10 times to get him perfect... my pes fun because I made him myself... I just dont see how you can have any pride in your char when its based off someone elses work... I really just cant understand it... I know it was enevatable, but I HATE that skill manager with a passion... before people actually had to do a little work to make a good char.... now its done for them... I just think it ruins 1/2 the point of the game, working to make a good char.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Im gotta try my best not to flame but i hate these type of threads... I see no problem in helping newbies by telling them good spots to hunt, what damage to watch out for in pvm or pvp so they can be prpaired or give a few small tips in resists but giving entire setups out on a silver platter like this ruins the fun in my opinion... 1/2 the fun in ANY game where you level is guilding you char.... I remade my barbarian in diablo 2 from level 1 up to the 90s like 10 times to get him perfect... my pes fun because I made him myself... I just dont see how you can have any pride in your char when its based off someone elses work... I really just cant understand it... I know it was enevatable, but I HATE that skill manager with a passion... before people actually had to do a little work to make a good char.... now its done for them... I just think it ruins 1/2 the point of the game, working to make a good char.
Actually loms ruined all the char planning fun. When they got introduced, it took like some weeks and ppl knew everything about every class and most possible setups. Just cause it was so easy to test EVERYTHING. That skillmanager is just the next step.
I use it to set up my chars, but thats all. Mostly i just start my chars and see how they work. If they dont, i change some stats. Until they do. That way i setup my _own_ PE. Also i managed to setup an awesome spy who really kicks ass. And hes unique. Thats what i love most about it.
All those templates for chars are nice, thats all. Tips and hints are fine, but one should really make up the rest by himself. Its so much more fun if you manage to work things out yourself.
/edit
And hell, i'd never give out my setup. Its mine! Make up your own you lazy idiots out there! :D
seems to me me like...rifle spy sucks much moore then pistol spys because of req. on the rifles...:eek:
Im new to spys... so Jester what do you think of my slightly modified setup? its using destrol forte and beast... any good?
http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/180104-hjkhjk.JPG
btw... new to posting pics.
Shadow Dancer
18-01-04, 07:49
damn, living on 2 drugs though?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
damn, living on 2 drugs though?
My spy is on 3. 2 permanent plus deso forte if i need to cast my own shelter. I can even do opfights with him although i might need an extra rezz from time to time...
And i didnt die once to a drugflash yet. Its just getting used to it. :)
Originally posted by Hot-Salsa
seems to me me like...rifle spy sucks much moore then pistol spys because of req. on the rifles...:eek:
197 shots per minute on a disruptor are fine with me. :cool:
Originally posted by SorkZmok
My spy is on 3. 2 permanent plus deso forte if i need to cast my own shelter. I can even do opfights with him although i might need an extra rezz from time to time...
And i didnt die once to a drugflash yet. Its just getting used to it. :)
197 shots per minute on a disruptor are fine with me. :cool:
y would u. just cloak away :)
trigger hurt
18-01-04, 08:36
After I lom'd out all of my t-c and became one of the only low tech spies out there, I started dickin around with it.
So far, here is about I came up with.
http://antistatik.oesm.org/images/spy-resists.jpg
Originally posted by BombShell
y would u. just cloak away :)
Running away from about 5 ppl while you cant see shit or even just run straight can be a damn problem. Even stealthed. :p
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Running away from about 5 ppl while you cant see shit or even just run straight can be a damn problem. Even stealthed. :p
use a longer stealth :)
-=Blasehase=-
18-01-04, 09:30
hum...i think its time forthe master ;)
Pic 1 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy1.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy2.jpg)
Pic 3 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy3.jpg)
Originally posted by iainy13
Im new to spys... so Jester what do you think of my slightly modified setup? its using destrol forte and beast... any good?
The skillmanager does no checking of imp requirements - you have a Bez3 in. (Str68)
Originally posted by trigger hurt
After I lom'd out all of my t-c and became one of the only low tech spies out there, I started dickin around with it.
So far, here is about I came up with. Inq 2 trousers req Str 56
Jesterthegreat
18-01-04, 13:18
Vet as i said - this i a largely untested setup.
besides. like you said, you couldnt take pride knowing you took the setup. if all the other players are like that they will use this for guidance not just steal it.
people have pointed out a few problems with this setup... i used exp leg not foot in 2nd one, not enough tc in 2nd one, not enough dex in 1st one, etc etc
and i have played since retail release (and beta too) just like a suspect you have. i have created this setup with minimal help. i have got suggestions such as exp heart (filter - hardly need the +xray and the little +poison isnt needed) and exp foot...
its a shame in a way... my spy is 1 str off using both exp foot and leg. if i wanted to create a drug junkie, i could make a far better setup.
Beast / Redflash - more agl / ath, allows exp leg and exp foot, lom agl / ath to pc / body health...
it is a setup that can be changed around, and would have to be changed around as it has too many errors as it is.
Jesterthegreat
18-01-04, 13:21
Originally posted by -=Blasehase=-
hum...i think its time forthe master ;)
Pic 1 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy1.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy2.jpg)
Pic 3 (http://home.pages.at/smoker/shots/Pistol_spy3.jpg)
if i did a drugged setup, it would include the same drugs.
however that includes lower resists than mine all round, and only a little bit more health. is that enough pay off for 4 drugs on constantly?
Originally posted by SorkZmok
197 shots per minute on a disruptor are fine with me. :cool:
and if you can reach it
222/min on the FL is nice when they all hit :p
is it just me or something wrong?the skill manager says 105 intel and 105 dex at capp?i thought 100 was capp!
For what it's worth, the skillmanager doesn't calculate health accurately.
Just thought you'd all like to know, in case you were expecting to see results from experimental setups verbatim on a real character :D
As an aside ... it's interesting to see all these drugged-to the-eyeballs, knife edge setups planned out ... even more interesting is how few of them last beyond a couple of days when tried in `real-world` game situations. They are generally too high maintenance to be liveable with for long.
There are remarkably few viable spy setups actually in day to day use.
(NB: 80%+ are rifle users - this rises to over 95%+ for pure combat spies)
In fact they are mostly all minor variations a few themes ...
PP/MoveOn/Bez2
MoveOn/Bez2
MoveOn/Distance3
Distance3/Balistic3 (or Kami)(assuming capped char with access to all imps)
Originally posted by kurai
As an aside ... it's interesting to see all these drugged-to the-eyeballs, knife edge setups planned out ... even more interesting is how few of them last beyond a couple of days when tried in `real-world` game situations. They are generally too high maintenance to be liveable with for long.
Well like i said, i'm using 2 drugs permanently and desostrol forte if i need to cast shelter myself. It works for me although i'm wasting a shitload of money on drugs everyday. Hell, if there wasn't doy bot junk i'd be so damn broke. ;)
About other great drugged up spy setups, i never met any. Either they lack the offense or the defense or they are pumped up with every speed drug plus all resist drugs having fun in neofrag.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
if i did a drugged setup, it would include the same drugs.
however that includes lower resists than mine all round, and only a little bit more health. is that enough pay off for 4 drugs on constantly? Theres better setups with only 3 drugs involved. o_O
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