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View Full Version : CODE vs. RULES



RayBob
16-01-04, 08:55
I've been thinking about this whole concept of banning people for doing things they aren't supposed to do and I have come up with the following philosophy:

As long as you are not using a third party program to hack the client, send packets to the game server, etc.....then it should not be a bannable offense.

This is a game, an escape from reality. We all have plenty of rules to govern every aspect of our real lives. There should not be rules imposed on us in our virtual escapes.

Example 1: The current safe zones do not allow players to draw a weapon. This is a clear example of how a policy was created--the safe zones--and code was used to implement the policy. Imagine instead if the GMs simply told us that these areas are SUPPOSED to be safe zones and we SHOULD NOT draw our weapons. Does anyone think this would work? Can GMs watch every single inch of plaza 24/7? Would anyone volunteer to be a GM if they were assigned this tedious chore?

People will always find a way to do what they are not SUPPOSED to do. But what is wrong with that? People take every drug imaginable and try jumping to the roofs of plaza. We are supposed to explore every nook and cranny of the world--that is half the fun.

Example 2: People can be banned for going into areas they are not supposed to. Are you serious? KK screws up and makes certain areas accessible that they did not intend (such as Regants Legacy) but instead of fixing the code they threaten their customers with a ban? What exactly are you threatening us with? We will no longer have the right to send you money? Have a drink and chill. You may have legitimite reasons for not wanting players to see a certain area before it is ready; I can understand that. But if you don’t want them to get in then fix the code, put up a wall, spawn fifty 120/120 guards that can see stealthers. In other words, KK created the problem so they should solve it and stop picking on us.

Example 3: the recent threat to ban any player dropping a turret in the UG. For 10 months players dropped turrets in the UG and the world continued to rotate. Then suddenly they decided this was bad and down came the latest commandement from the mountain. They could have simply let things continue as they had and fixed it in the next patch. There was no need to create this aura of rules and bans. Quite honestly, I know many people that play regularly but do not frequent the forums. Many people could have innocently broken the GM rules without even knowing it.

Example 4: the PKing at the Christmas party on Pluto. The GMs work hard (and for free) to create events for us that are often underappreciated and heavily criticized. I admire their efforts. Nonetheless, they should create events that do not impose arbitrary rules on the community. Obviously, there should not have been any PKing at that event. However, I know of at least one person that had no idea an event was going on, was doing an epic, and wandered into an enemy in the outzone station which he naturally attacked. If an event is designed to exclude PvP activity then use code to enforce it and not rules. The block of code that stops a player from drawing a weapon in plaza should be made available to GMs to turn on in any zone they require for their events. Alternatively, dozens of the STORM bots that guard the Neocron gates could have been spawned all over the outzone station. These guards are already programmed to fire on anyone that draws a weapon.

_______________________

There are many things that people do that I think are lame: noob buffs, [ edited for violation of the forum rules - exploits ], and I’m sure you could think of dozens more. The fact is that none of these activities utilize a third party program. They are not hacks. This doesn’t make them any less lame, but we have to get over this whole rules/bannable offense mentality. Until KK gets around to fixing a problem, the players need to stop whining about each other and the GMs need to stop threatening the players with bans.

Cytaur
16-01-04, 09:13
Your "philosophy" just beyond any words that describe pure nonsense. Now please never do that again.

Birkoff
16-01-04, 09:23
Originally posted by Cytaur
Your "philosophy" just beyond any words that describe pure nonsense. Now please never do that again.

What he said...

People don't get banned n e more.. it just don't happen (much).

But i see where you're coming from.. i "think"

RayBob
16-01-04, 09:28
Originally posted by Cytaur
Your "philosophy" just beyond any words that describe pure nonsense. Now please never do that again. An introduction and clear statement of my position, supported through examples, with a conclusion. While you may not agree with my opinion, have the decency to make an intelligent post.

deac
16-01-04, 09:31
agree on all but nr 4..... give the gms a break....

g0rt
16-01-04, 09:41
110% completely agreed

if the game allows it, its viable

if you don't want players doing it, THEN DON'T LET THEM DO IT... implament code into the game that makes it impossible to do so!

you don't want people pking in plaza1, so you made it a safezone! OMG IT WORKS! much better then making it a warzone and saying "Hey no ones allowed to PK in plaza1", isn't it?

its as simple as that...well, well, well said raybob...

Samhain
16-01-04, 09:52
to someone naive about the mechanics of games, it sounds simple as that.

it's funny, because in one post you are yelling like a retarted 12 year old about WHAT IS TEH BEST FOR TEH GAEM!!!1 DONUT BAN EXPLOITARS!! and telling people they don't know what is the best for the game, yet you yourself seem to lack ANY CLUE about what is in the best interest of the development of Neocron.

What is more efficient and thus, better for the development of Neocron, situation A, or situation B?

A-KK has something 'big' planned in sector 'x'. They do as much out of game work as they can on sector 'x', and then for whatever reason need to put part of it in the game, but section it off. They section all accessable areas off with a big sign that says 'go away!' so no one can get in and see the super secret treat for all of us. They tell us on the forum, don't go in there. Since they are *focused on getting this extra thing to us as soon as possible, they don't spent 12 hours trying to think of every possible way to get in to the place with huge amounts of drugs, /set reset and other various unnatural things in the game* some asshat LOMs all his points away in to AGL and ATL and drugs up beyond gods amount, manages to climb up a vast array of shit and doing other various things, gets inside, takes screenshots, and posts them on the forum. Several dozen people see it before it's deleted, and it ruins the fun for them.

B-KK has something 'big' planned in sector 'x'. Since they know the community has fuckheads in it, they spent hours going over the sector, sealing it up, etc. etc., and since they spent hours of their time on redundant shit to keep people out that is only going to be removed come the end of it, it takes twice as long for this secret to come out.

Really, which one is better? Seems like you're a proponent of the latter.

g0rt
16-01-04, 10:07
if the dev team was any good they should be able to easily seal off any area they wanted, nuff said

its thier game, they should be able to do exactly what they want with it...

saying "you cant do it" is just an excuse for piss poor code, nothing else.

no matter WHAT you or your carebear buddies think, banning people is never the answer...unless its a serious offense.

but using a spell thats PUT IN THE GAME TO USE? rofl...please...

Samhain
16-01-04, 10:25
saying "you cant do it" is just an excuse for piss poor code, nothing else.

I totally agree with you, but Neocron, as a whole, is just a jumble of piss poor code. These guys are not professionals. They are learning still, obviously, and they don't have the resources to code a handy engine that lets them do what they want. Most of the shit in NC is probably hardcoded, for christ sake.


if the dev team was any good they should be able to easily seal off any area they wanted, nuff said

Now, the dev team isn't great, they're but they are certanily SOME good. They just have to spend some series time refining their implimentation of ... well, everything.


banning people is never the answer...unless its a serious offense.

Now we're getting in to a debate over what constitutes a bannable offence, which is not ours to decide - it's KKs.

if they say don't go in here OR WE WILL BAN YOU, it's pretty fucking obvious you shouldn't go in there. you can't defend anyone that goes in there - and being banned in the only deterrent that seems to work.



but using a spell thats PUT IN THE GAME TO USE? rofl...please...

if the spell is bugged and no longer working the way it was intended to, it's no longer 'put in the game to use'.

You'd be singing a different tune if the spell was bugged to kill everyone in the area and make them drop their shit. Then you'd be flipping out about how people shouldn't use it until KK fixes it, not saying WELL ITS THERE, SO USE IT!

g0rt
16-01-04, 10:29
Originally posted by Samhain

You'd be singing a different tune if the spell was bugged to kill everyone in the area and make them drop their shit. Then you'd be flipping out about how people shouldn't use it until KK fixes it, not saying WELL ITS THERE, SO USE IT!

Probably not, I would make sure im not on the recieving end of it :p

I respect what you're saying here, hell I even agree with alot of it....I just don't think banning players for using this is the proper thing to do. I mean, we lived with freezer freq at 105/min for a LONG, LONG time now...I think we can live with these bugged freezes for a few days until they fix it, rather then go off banning people.

And that said, I use holy para still...it gives me a tasty 91/* battle rank, and im a sucker for a high rank :p

Samhain
16-01-04, 10:34
and I know what you are saying, and if you got banned all of a sudden, I'd object and argue for pages, even despite my recent insults towards you... but if the devs made an announcement saying they are working on a fix, and not to use it. And you were spotted using it, and you were warned by a GM, and then you continued to use it, I'd think you should be banned for a little while, or punished somehow (not allowed to use anything but your fists until you alone kill a grim chaser :D)

g0rt
16-01-04, 10:41
Originally posted by Samhain
and I know what you are saying, and if you got banned all of a sudden, I'd object and argue for pages, even despite my recent insults towards you... but if the devs made an announcement saying they are working on a fix, and not to use it. And you were spotted using it, and you were warned by a GM, and then you continued to use it, I'd think you should be banned for a little while, or punished somehow (not allowed to use anything but your fists until you alone kill a grim chaser :D)

Agreed.

But I have yet to see a msg regarding use of this spell :cool: So hopefully that means there will be a PATCH SOON that fixes para! :D

Nidhogg
16-01-04, 11:58
I'll say this one more time - the only law in Neocron is that of KK and the GMs. Try to justify breaking that law all you like but if they tell you not to do something, you will get in serious trouble if you go right ahead and do it.

Finally, discussion of the rules is not allowed on the forums.

N

Callash
16-01-04, 16:38
Besides, a GM warning you and/or sending you in for a Ban is also a Game Feature, as long as we are mangling words.