View Full Version : PE + Stealth = pissed off fenix ...
ok, i think rade and a few others have commented on this, probably why theres somany pistol PEs that think their the shit. PE's that RELY on pretty much fucking perma stealth, shoot 2 bursts, get shot back, stealth, I heal, he unstealths, I shoot him nonce, he stealths, rince re-fucking-peat. If you cant fucking fight, dont run around areas like MB and Battledome thinking your the dogs golden testicles, getting cocky in direct when your stealthed or hiding, lol, Heres my examples, no names, Saturn, just now, Pistol PE, using blacksun and lib, at rank /66, Im a Rifle spy, /61, researcher, Using a 1 slot PE and I get 159% damage on it, and im using a commando, 3 slots capping damage on it, But its still only a commando ... I nearly killed this tosser 8 times, he stealthed EVERY time I got a burst on him, not when he was near death, but whenever I hit him, with a Uncapped PE and he has shelter and blessed deflector on, the guys a joke, I just got bored of him and his cockface DMs at me, So just repped out, saying '' *yawn* boring bastard - try fighting nexttime '' in local first.
Now what happened to the 'drug haze' you were meant to get when constantly pumping that stealth tool, its nonexistant, I have stealth 1 and 2 in my spy's belt, I ONLY use it to either sneak past someone to get a sniping position or to escape death, not stealth to go heal up after 1 hit, to escape death, as in I know ive lost that fight, so fuck it I cba to get pokes so then im gonna hit the stealth 2 .....
Yet theres ALOT of PE's that just pump at that stealth tool like fucking crazy, like its a knee jerk reaction after getting hit once .....
its to hide there crap cons setups;)
Originally posted by ezza
its to hide there crap cons setups;)
I can tell that was a dig at me after earlier :p Reason I was stealthin after 2 hits from you is thats all I can take atm, The CON on my spy is beyond repair atm :p its a year old char i havent played for a good 6-8 months, the con is fubar, theres no resists and the points are in ath, bodyhealth and (:lol:) Endurance .... Gotta go hit the lom's sometime :lol:
okok
but your right there are tomany stealthing bitches around who use it at the drop of a hat.
think it was vet who said but a delay between stealth uses
with a 10 second delay between each use it would be ok i think
lol plz you were a /51 spy? if I was him I could probably kill you without stealth I think he just one of those player who pisses you off.
but then he didn't kill you, so its not really unfair.
Originally posted by ezza
okok
but your right there are tomany stealthing bitches around who use it at the drop of a hat.
think it was vet who said but a delay between stealth uses
with a 10 second delay between each use it would be ok i think
well, to me, there seems to be that anyhow, After I come outta stealth, for 2-3 second i get that ''you can not use this yet'' crap on everything, then I select the tool If i wanna stealth again, then it takes 5-6 clicks to get it to work, yet theres alotta people that pop up for a split second then wham their stealthed again O_o
Originally posted by Rai Wong
lol plz you were a /51 spy? if I was him I could probably kill you without stealth I think he just one of those player who pisses you off.
but then he didn't kill you, so its not really unfair.
im /61 ...... Reading works wonders when making replies, Also, reading once again woulda helped you realise that imo I was beating the guy, Nearly had him dead around 8 times, yet whammo there goes the stealth tool .....
I have a pistol PE, I use stealth 1.
BUT, I DONT stealth from getting hit once, If im not there to fight, i stealth out, if i want to fight i fight, if im almost dead, i stealth.
Im not ashamed of my use of the stealth 1. Yes theres drug flash.
Oh, and its not bad enough that we can be shot 2 or 3 seconds before according to the server... we have stealthed so 10 seconds is out of the question.
5 seconds and a 5 second increase in the time you can use stealth 1 and ill agree to that.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
well, to me, there seems to be that anyhow, After I come outta stealth, for 2-3 second i get that ''you can not use this yet'' crap on everything, then I select the tool If i wanna stealth again, then it takes 5-6 clicks to get it to work, yet theres alotta people that pop up for a split second then wham their stealthed again O_o
ok, dunno cos i dont use stealth that often on my PE(even though my resists aint that good cos not capped)
so what you recon 20second gap or what, think that would discourage people from using it like its going out of fashi0n
there should be a class restriction of SPY only imo
Disturbed021
16-01-04, 02:52
Originally posted by Lenard
there should be a class restriction of SPY only imo
AMEN!!
There should also be a drug flash or something for excessive use.
There isn't one atm is there? I have never gotten a drug flash but than again I don't really abuse the Stealth even tho my main is a weak pistol spy....
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
well, to me, there seems to be that anyhow, After I come outta stealth, for 2-3 second i get that ''you can not use this yet'' crap on everything, then I select the tool If i wanna stealth again, then it takes 5-6 clicks to get it to work, yet theres alotta people that pop up for a split second then wham their stealthed again O_o
Its like that for everyone, Its just that sometimes the server
show you to the others as just being visible for a split second
and sometimes they got 5 seconds to nuke you the fuck dead.
The inconsistency is a bit worrying :/ Always fun to get 3 HL hits
after you have stealthed :p
Originally posted by Lenard
there should be a class restriction of SPY only imo
and I think pistol would disappear again... from PE at least...
and I don't know really good spy pistol.
Oh there is a drug flash, but you gotta use it like 15 or 20 times in a row almost.
And no to spy restricted, PEs are jack of all trades, they can do a little bit of everything.
(BTW, its not my fault if pes gimp themselves for stealth II)
Originally posted by Ralendil
and I think pistol would disappear again... from PE at least...
and I don't know really good spy pistol. why cos few of the pistol PEs have the balls to go to battle without stealth
they used to manage in the old days, have they all gone soft since then or whato_O
Again, removing stealth from PEs would just make them into a
worse version of the other classes in every single way. Yeah, a
PE can guerilla fight you until you are dead, but in a group fight
thats not what matters, its your damage output and how easy
you are for a PPU to manage, and all of these things PEs suck at.
PEs have their advantages but also their disadvantages, like
being the suckiest class to bring to a group fight for example.
Originally posted by ezza
they used to manage in the old days, have they all gone soft since then or whato_O
And they all sucked compare to the other classes (except spy
which was even worse back then). You want that back? mm good
thinking.
just because stealth gives you the chance to heal doesnt mean its great. my pe doesnt use stealth except to run past people or if im almost dead. actually stealthing pes piss me off
didnt see this answerd yet.
but drug haze isnt taken when stealthing. its when u destealth by taking drugs.
i think stealthd evice when used should remove heal shelter and deflector from u.
so not making it a good offence wepaon. allow pes to be brought down to spy lvl.
this will allow u to do maxuim damage to this pe before he stealth agins
Originally posted by ezza
they used to manage in the old days, have they all gone soft since then or whato_O
Do you remeber these old days ;) ?
there was too few pistoleros... and KK has boosted them... even after adding Stealth...
It is just my opinion cause i am PE. I know pistol sux at damages (look rank of pistoleros) but I have opted to this way of fighting cause i like quick fight and cause of the stealth that can allow you to have chance against an apu...
srry... if I have no stealth I immediatly lom to rifle... I would be dead before being at contact against good apu with a pistol....
with a pain easer it is exactly the contrary... I would be far away from its spells' range.
just try to fight with pistol PE without stealth against a capped tank with CS... try after a capped APU with HL :lol:
Originally posted by Ralendil
Do you remeber these old days ;) ?
there was too few pistoleros... and KK has boosted them... even after adding Stealth...
It is just my opinion cause i am PE. I know pistol sux at damages (look rank of pistoleros) but I have opted to this way of fighting cause i like quick fight and cause of the stealth that can allow you to have chance against an apu...
srry... if I have no stealth I immediatly lom to rifle... I would be dead before being at contact against good apu with a pistol....
with a pain easer it is exactly the contrary... I would be far away from its spells' range.
just try to fight with pistol PE without stealth against a capped tank with CS... try after a capped APU with HL :lol:
i faild to see the point i killed both classes farly ezy but apu does hav more of a challenge do tot heir high damage but i hav high life to last long then reg pes.
Originally posted by Ralendil
just try to fight with pistol PE without stealth against a capped tank with CS... try after a capped APU with HL :lol:
I used to do that, rade is perfectly capable of that (Altho Rade loves the cock, uhm stealth aswell ;):p remember that time at cycrow... grrrr :p)
My old pistol PE could take 10-12 HL hits on average, its taken 17 once and survived, just got lucky on the random damage, by then, aslong as you can aim, a liberators gonna rip a APU/Spy apart, Against a tank, Their slow, so stay behind them so they cant constantly shoot you, and wear them down with blacksun as I found that more effective against tanks then lib.
[Edit] Changed PPU to APU ;)
Shadow Dancer
16-01-04, 03:12
pe stealthing needs some serious restrictions.
Rento Webex
16-01-04, 03:16
I do aggree with the stealthing shit constantly such as alot of people on Pluto, sure I have done it from time to time but I got better muahaha and now I dont but still it's fucking annoying when you get them to low heaoth then they run off and you cant find the fuckers untill they come back at you and you still own them.
at the moment the TC req's are:
1) 80
2) 95
3) 100
4) 105 (oblit)
The DEX on stealth 1 and 2 is:
1) 90 DEX 60 INT
2) 100 DEX 70 INT
Hows about making it so that the TC req on stealth 1 is 85 and the INT req upped by 10 on each one, so stealth 1 is 70 INT, 90 DEX 85 TC and so on with the other tools, This way youll see the PE's that 'rely' on stealth, because its reachable by PE's but will require you to either use a spine that removes STR and not INT, Thus leaving them weaker armour, or dumping a moveon or resistor to get the INT req ... This way, they will have to learn to fight, and not use stealth as much (unless drugged) or to go for those req's and make a freakin sacrafice to get it as its THE best defence in the game, invisibility ffs
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
a liberators gonna rip a PPU/Spy apart, Against a tank, Their slow,
srry not agree...
my PPU on Venus can't be killed by liberator.... :rolleyes:
you have to use a TL3 heal... and for that you have to use it at the right moment....
problem with liberator is its accuracy.
Problem with PPUs is parashock :rolleyes:
At any rate, NO, leave my stealth 1 alone.
and no, my con setup when completed with a protopharm resistor will bring all the damange that is dealt to me down to about 10% (Except poison)
I dont see y everyone is trying to nerf the shit out of jack of all trades.
i think my idea is perfectly logical.
making stealth device remove heal, shelter, and deflector. when used. making them like spys.
so making them like spys when thay attack is like a spy using stealth device.
to me increasing the req on these devices means u dont want spies using it either. even if u say no am not. may as well.
just make pes down to spie lvl when thay r used in combat.
and i dont think it would hurt spies. i dont see spies with constant shelter around do u ??
Originally posted by Zanathos
Problem with PPUs is parashock :rolleyes:
At any rate, NO, leave my stealth 1 alone.
and no, my con setup when completed with a protopharm resistor will bring all the damange that is dealt to me down to about 10% (Except poison)
with stealth you can avoid to be shocked ^^
:lol:
and with drugs you can avoid para...
remember that a ppu have to use all his psi energy to only cast 2 holy paralysis....
Originally posted by Ralendil
srry not agree...
my PPU on Venus can't be killed by liberator.... :rolleyes:
you have to use a TL3 heal... and for that you have to use it at the right moment....
problem with liberator is its accuracy.
oops yea meant APU
Originally posted by Ralendil
with stealth you can avoid to be shocked ^^
:lol:
and with drugs you can avoid para...
remember that a ppu have to use all his psi energy to only cast 2 holy paralysis.... Then use holy halo and you get 3 casts :p
Crap PEs constantly stealthing are only an annoyance, if you cant deal with that then tough, robbing us of stealth or gimping us because we're hard to kill when totally capped and useing lots of rares is just plain stupid.
As for servers suddenly filling up with PE's well that doesnt hold true on Pluto, I havent suddenly seen a ton of new PEs and this poll reflects that.
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=1162462#post1162462
NO!!!
If this happened I would probabally LEAAAAAAVE NEOCRON!@!!!!!!!!11111111one
Seriously though, the Private Eye is the kiddie class, and stealth is one of there toys. Do you really want to be the old git that steals LEGO from children?
Originally posted by Ralendil
with stealth you can avoid to be shocked ^^
:lol:
and with drugs you can avoid para...
remember that a ppu have to use all his psi energy to only cast 2 holy paralysis....
give me another slot on my belt and ill shut up
an alternative quick belt with hot key would be very useful for half of Nc's runners ...
especially for PPU...
Clownst0pper
16-01-04, 04:05
Fenyx do u ever stop moaning?:confused: :rolleyes:
Dedicated melee PEs can't even stealth. :(
/edit: I like stealth the way it is, I have a couple PEs who make a point out of not abusing it.
That said, I'd welcome the addition of a drug that would, for a minute or so, make stealthers visible (and targetable) within roughly pistol range. Have it induce an effect similar to Darklight in Planetside but with more range.
Either that or add Truesight Goggles or headgear and give us a new kind of implant slot :D :D :D
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Fenyx do u ever stop moaning?:confused: :rolleyes:
Nope. Least I dont go fueling my Ego here instead of posting my view on something that I feel needs sorting in some way.
Make Stealth Tools Spy only with a 10 second delay between each stealth.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
at the moment the TC req's are:
1) 80
2) 95
3) 100
4) 105 (oblit)
The DEX on stealth 1 and 2 is:
1) 90 DEX 60 INT
2) 100 DEX 70 INT
Hows about making it so that the TC req on stealth 1 is 85 and the INT req upped by 10 on each one, so stealth 1 is 70 INT, 90 DEX 85 TC and so on with the other tools, This way youll see the PE's that 'rely' on stealth, because its reachable by PE's but will require you to either use a spine that removes STR and not INT, Thus leaving them weaker armour, or dumping a moveon or resistor to get the INT req ... This way, they will have to learn to fight, and not use stealth as much (unless drugged) or to go for those req's and make a freakin sacrafice to get it as its THE best defence in the game, invisibility ffs
Works for me...
You guys are forgettting the one thing everyone forgets on occassions.. Neocron is just a game, you needn't take it so seriously. if someone wants to PvP how you just explained Fenyx then let them. No need for such a complant... Something doesn't need to change just be such a small fraction of the community doesn't like it.
I hatr this kinda shit too. and im sick of the carebears responding "well he cant hit you while stealthed" big deal, 1) hes still a potential threat 2) I want my kill. A 10 second delay between stealthings would not make life any harder for the 30 seconds stealth or obliterator spys, just the 10 and 20 second stealth users. Again, stealth should be a tool for sneak attacks, and get aways, NOT to be unkillable!
Originally posted by Rade
Works for me... Hehe thats just cause you have an SA. :p
And actually thats not too bad an idea I like it.
No problem with stealth removing buffs. Totally disagree with a forced delay between stealth uses or dug overdosing for continued usage, because those destroy secretive recon / stalking / infiltration ... the OTHER uses of stealth besides running away. Have no problem with the fact that it is very hard (or even impossible) for me to kill other stealthy spies or stealthy pes; in actuality, if they slip up i kill them and if i slip up they kill me.
Spook
rinse repeat lather
oh we are talking about pe's and stealth... lol
Psycho Killa
16-01-04, 08:06
Pe's should be able to use stealth but it should be as a means of either
A) Getting the drop on someone
B) Attempt at running from overwhelming odds
it should not be a toy to shoot stealth hide shoot stealth hide etc....
nonamebrandeggs
16-01-04, 08:10
This is Karma for using Parashock.
Bah screw it just remove it and parashock together
Not fussed anymore..
It seems if a small group of peaople bitch about the same thing for long enough it gets changed what ever the rest of the community thinks anyway.
I can't stealth but neer had a problem with PEs stealthing.
I practically live at MB to fight people. I use stealth to:
1. Suddenly appear behind a victim.
2. Escape or sneak past hostiles (particularly when large groups of them are lining up to kill me).
3. When poisoned, stop and take a poison drug.
4. When frozen, stop and take a freeze drug, then run away from the PPU so I can logoff and spam the forums about how stupid PPUs/parashocks are.
I don't normally need it for a 1 on 1 but against monks or groups of people I might. Still, if they knew what they were doing they could kill me. I can kill most stealthers without much problem.
Fenix plz dont cry.....
If you dont likw how they fight then leave.
Let them have stealth, i dont care if they stealth lots, makes hunting PE's more fun... and if yur getting annoyed at them DMing yu and saying 'I r 1337 joo suxxors' then yur worse for letting it get to yu.
Besides i would rather not let the PE's get on the nerf train.. its already full as it is.
As i see it there are 2 types of characters in this game. One that fights Toe to Toe with each other (E.g. PPU, Tank, APU) for them its quite simple... first one to die looses
The second type, is the stealther type does exactly what it does on the tin, completly different fighting style to the first type. Doesnt deal as extreme amount of damage as the first type, doesnt take as much of a beating as the first class, theyre boon is that they can evade, (these are mainly Spys. and to a lesser extent PE's, as theyre very versitile not all of them use it, some are melee and some are heavy PE's)
if yu killed stealth for PE's yu'd have a shit Tank clone... and no one would probably play PE's Ever again.
so just leave stealth as it is (even stealth 2)
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
This is Karma for using Parashock.
LMFAO.
Seyla.
Clownst0pper
16-01-04, 12:43
Nope. Least I dont go fueling my Ego here instead of posting my view on something that I feel needs sorting in some way
Er...Ok.
/ignore Fenyx
TBH this topic has circulated so many times its just becomming spam.
Rade has mentioned it more times than I can remember, and also has mentioned ways to fix it. And TBH, I doubt there are any others. Its that simple.
Decrease the using time between Stealths, or give a drug effect the more its used, Or increase there requirments.
Other than that lets find new topics, this is just spam :o
Originally posted by Benjie
NO!!!
If this happened I would probabally LEAAAAAAVE NEOCRON!@!!!!!!!!11111111one
Seriously though, the Private Eye is the kiddie class, and stealth is one of there toys. Do you really want to be the old git that steals LEGO from children?
That’s bullshit and you know it, the PE sucked balls to play until the liberator was mildly de-nerfed + we got PA + stealth became available. All the 'I want to kill things in 2 seconds and be ub3r kiddies' rolled HC tanks or APU's.
There hasn’t been a major increase in PE population since the improvements to PE's.
I'm tired of this bullshit, in the past I've called for nerfs of Hybrids and Para because they were unbalancing the whole game. They were needed but now people just seem to want to call nerf on any class they can’t kill in less than 10 seconds, it’s fucking pathetic.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
That’s bullshit and you know it, the PE sucked balls to play until the liberator was mildly de-nerfed + we got PA + stealth became available. All the 'I want to kill things in 2 seconds and be ub3r kiddies' rolled HC tanks or APU's.
There hasn’t been a major increase in PE population since the improvements to PE's.
I'm tired of this bullshit, in the past I've called for nerfs of Hybrids and Para because they were unbalancing the whole game. They were needed but now people just seem to want to call nerf on any class they can’t kill in less than 10 seconds, it’s fucking pathetic.
just two words: good summary...
totally agree...
and I had asked the parashock nerf (not on the psi energie cost but on its frequence)
rubaduckythug
16-01-04, 14:58
OMG
YES very good idea, i agree totally. Pe wants to stealth should have all his buffs removed. thats wut will make it fair so that stealthing becomes a means of escape instead of just being a cheap way to buy time heal up buff ect... then repeat with there lame pvp ways.
EDIT: oh and that post above mine, just cuase they cant kill somone in ten seconds? try a 20 min fight with a pe who stealths like its going outta style until you fianlly kill them cuase they couldnt activate htere stealth in time. screw that nerf the pe's tkae there fuckingstealhts away or make it so they loose all there buffs when they stealth!
well, i lommed my PE.. hes pure RC now, if hes outclassed in pvp, then hes gonna die... nice setup atm.. could be better tho.
Original monk
16-01-04, 15:10
i say:
stealth : spy-only
blessed spells: psi-only
ciao
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
ok, i think rade and a few others have commented on this, probably why theres somany pistol PEs that think their the shit. PE's that RELY on pretty much fucking perma stealth, shoot 2 bursts, get shot back, stealth, I heal, he unstealths, I shoot him nonce, he stealths, rince re-fucking-peat. If you cant fucking fight, dont run around areas like MB and Battledome thinking your the dogs golden testicles, getting cocky in direct when your stealthed or hiding, lol, Heres my examples, no names, Saturn, just now, Pistol PE, using blacksun and lib, at rank /66, Im a Rifle spy, /61, researcher, Using a 1 slot PE and I get 159% damage on it, and im using a commando, 3 slots capping damage on it, But its still only a commando ... I nearly killed this tosser 8 times, he stealthed EVERY time I got a burst on him, not when he was near death, but whenever I hit him, with a Uncapped PE and he has shelter and blessed deflector on, the guys a joke, I just got bored of him and his cockface DMs at me, So just repped out, saying '' *yawn* boring bastard - try fighting nexttime '' in local first.
I had a rather interesting encounter yesterday night at the BattleDome: a rhino was driving around and shooting my PE. Well even with my shelter on and buffed up I took quite a lot of damage. So I started to play a little hide and seek with the tank. Running behind the Dome, around the ASG, etc.... Eventually the rhino got some good shots at me and i was half dead. So a spy inside the rhino guessed he could kill me. He thought wrong and died by my trusty libby :D I looked forward to looting his belt but the vehicle drove over it and it got looted by his mates. As far as i could see no one left the rhino and they looted the belt from within. Bah!
Nevertheless the Spy came back, this time better prepared, wearing PA and using stealth. Trying to kill each other we both stealthed away several times when our health dropped to critical levels or when the rhino was getting in a really good position to shoot me. We would heal up again a try to maneuver the other guy in such a way that it was possible to kill him. I tried to lure the spy inside the fence, where the rhino could not shoot me, he tried to keep me busy for the rhino to arrive...
I hope we both had a lot of fun doing this, at least I had!
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Now what happened to the 'drug haze' you were meant to get when constantly pumping that stealth tool, its nonexistant, I have stealth 1 and 2 in my spy's belt, I ONLY use it to either sneak past someone to get a sniping position or to escape death, not stealth to go heal up after 1 hit, to escape death, as in I know ive lost that fight, so fuck it I cba to get pokes so then im gonna hit the stealth 2 .....
What I'd like to say is simply: I had some fun yesterday, even when i was killed by that fa apu, who was coming along later. Even with my soullight dropping 60 points to -14 because that CM (?) ppu was helping him and a clanmate and I agreed on trying to kill him.
About the stealth: I feel that the drug haze thing should be a bit increased, otherwiese its fine. Based on how often you use the stealth.
If you find someone you want to kill and he/she stealthes all the time: Go and find someone else. Don't whine about not gettnig another dogtag....
Best regards,
Fafhrd
Originally posted by Rade
Again, removing stealth from PEs would just make them into a
worse version of the other classes in every single way.Given that not every PE uses stealth, and that people say PEs must gimp themselves to use it... how can you justify that statement? So my PE that doesnt use stealth will suddenly be a worse version of the other classes in every single way if you remove stealth?????
Originally posted by Strych9
Given that not every PE uses stealth, and that people say PEs must gimp themselves to use it... how can you justify that statement? So my PE that doesnt use stealth will suddenly be a worse version of the other classes in every single way if you remove stealth?????
yes
LOL. Thanks for that explanation. o_O
Funny how so many people played PEs and whooped so much ass before Stealth was in game... and funny how so many PEs dont use stealth.
Originally posted by Strych9
LOL. Thanks for that explanation. o_O
Funny how so many people played PEs and whooped so much ass before Stealth was in game... and funny how so many PEs dont use stealth.
do you use rifle ?
cause PE rifle low tech are good...
PE pistol low tech are jokes...
removing stealth would push PE players to give away pistol for Rifles...
as there so few good pistol spy...
bye bye pistols in pvp....
yes some would keep their pistol, but I don't think the majority would...
And why if PE stealth are so overpowered we don't see PE anywhere ???
Why gentank and apu (and ppu) are really good choice for pvp yet ?
Originally posted by Ralendil
do you use rifle ?
cause PE rifle low tech are good...
PE pistol low tech are jokes...
removing stealth would push PE players to give away pistol for Rifles...
as there so few good pistol spy...
bye bye pistols.... Ok first of all, low tech is not a joke. I may be at a disadvantage when I fight high tech but I hold my own to be sure. Libby and Pain Easer are powerful weapons in the right hands.
Originally posted by Jest
Ok first of all, low tech is not a joke. I may be at a disadvantage when I fight high tech but I hold my own to be sure. Libby and Pain Easer are powerful weapons in the right hands.
yes
but read again what I have written :)
Low tech rifle: good...
why ?
Cause to cap a pain easer on frequency you need all your points into rifle or almost.
The pain easer is good in pvp and can be used against all.
But low tech pistol you would just have liberator...
A PE with capped Pain easer has a rank of 71
A Pe with capped Liberator has a rank of 61
This is cause liberator is not as good as pain easer.
But whern you use pistol you don't need as points as if you were rifle. So you can put some TC.
With it you will have some good energy weapons. And like that you can fight against all classes with a pistol.
again, only an opinion :)
No more pistols in PvP?
Are you SERIOUSLY saying that before stealth, no PEs ever fought with a pistol, and that the only ones that do now only use Stealth?
Give me a break.
PEs have always participated in PvP, with pistols... YES, EVEN BEFORE STEALTH WAS IN THE GAME!!!111!!!
How do you think Rade got his rep? I promise you, it was established before Stealth was ever in the game.
maybe Strych you're right.
I was not here at these time. But i think some things has changed since this period.
Like devourer that has appeared in fight :).
Just my opinion, stealth removed, I give away my pistols to rifle.
Maybe I try a gentank pistol... yes I know it is funny :)
ONOZ PEs cant funtion without stealth :eek: :eek: :eek:
bollocks
PEs can function without stealth but I see no good reason why we cant have stealth if we want too it doesnt overpower the class. I'd also like to point out that since the boosts to PEs there have alo been boosts to tanks and monks with improved PA, imps wepaons and armour. If we lose stealth there will be a whole lot of PEs falling over dead and they'll come here and they'll bitch and your devourer will have slightly less power than a fart and a match and your HC PA with give -100 agility cause thats the way it seems to be heading.
when i was a pe i rarely used stealth or even used it at all i even used a lowtech pistol setup (worked ok but i also used to use a kami lol) but i got bored of him cause i caped and my clan at the time wasnt really active but he is gone now i miss him :(
Ok, I really can't be bothered to read the whole thread... but the main thing that I have to say is this:
There are some dickwads who just stealth around for the hell of it... they are ruining the class for the rest of us who just want to play it and play PvP properly. When I was a tech-combat PE I used to only stealth when I was outnumbered completely or was sure that I was going to die. The thing is that you are never sure that you are going to die untill very very late on in a fight.... which will probably mean that it is probably best to just keep on fighting, because if you get stealth out then use it its about a second or two wasted.... in which you might have been able to kill your opponent.
Anyway I don't feel that Stealth needs a nerf, neither do I feel that it should be spy only. The Spy and Tank need a boost, thats all I think.
Originally posted by Ralendil
A PE with capped Pain easer has a rank of 71
A Pe with capped Liberator has a rank of 61
This is cause liberator is not as good as pain easer.
Pistol ranks always are lower than rifle ranks. Thats got nothing to do with the guns str, its just KK who made up way different ranks for all classes. For example capped tanks can hardly get to 65 while ive seen midlevel droners with ranks of 80+
And i know some pistol pes who rock with Libbys. Its true that it misses a lot of shots but still it can hurt like hell if you get it to hit.
And about stealth, well i dropped the last 2 PEs dead before they even had their dumb stealth tool out.
And i got shot many times too because i didnt manage to get it out and activate it fast enough.
My idea about ppl permanently stealthing would be: Stealth 1 has got a delay of 20 seconds before you can use it again, stealth 2 got 15 seconds, stealth 3 got 10 and the obilterator gets 5 seconds. Maybe a bit less like 12 9 6 3 or so.
That would finally make stealth 3 and the rare one useful cause with decent runspeed, stealth2 is way more than enough time to run away unseen. The higher ones are just a waste of points.
Since when do you get a combat rank of 61 with a libby?
My pe has his libby completly artifact, has an ammo mod and a lasersight, his rate of fire is ALMOST capped, hes like 4% away from it, and his rank is 58.....
4% away from what, cause if its damage hes no where near capped it, long after damage is capped ROF will keep increasing.
I got 61 with my Lib and 63 with my Judge.
Pes r fine form reading this. Its all about how Pes will keep eating at u until ur deid by stealthing to heal.
why is everyone it seems saying nerf the pe when its clearly the stealther thats making nubs being nubs.
and armor givin more power?? stfu u dont know shit.
armor dosnt give as much as it did in defence before i switchs to it. i got 475 hlt instead of 460 hlt and i had a higher % on my shelter. so if anythin g its gimp armor.
i use pa because i like the xtra 7 rof. but i still dont see a change. it still owns with it or not.
the 2 most powerful pas r
Spies
and
Monks
and monks r about to be nerfed.
But i hell did not see anyone making a complainin thread about it being over power. dont fuken talk shit or kk will fuk us all over.
Originally posted by Ralendil
yes
but read again what I have written :)
Low tech rifle: good...
why ?
Cause to cap a pain easer on frequency you need all your points into rifle or almost.
The pain easer is good in pvp and can be used against all.
But low tech pistol you would just have liberator...
A PE with capped Pain easer has a rank of 71
A Pe with capped Liberator has a rank of 61
This is cause liberator is not as good as pain easer.
But whern you use pistol you don't need as points as if you were rifle. So you can put some TC.
With it you will have some good energy weapons. And like that you can fight against all classes with a pistol.
again, only an opinion :)
No, no, no, no, no. Liberator is FAR better than PE. It deals much more damage. It's also easier to cap RoF on Lib than PE.
As a low tech Lib user, you can have very high agility. That means you can have low athletics. That means high HP and resists. A low tech PE user cannot have as much agility because he needs more R-C to cap PE. Even with capped PE, Lib is better. And then he needs higher athletics so his resists/HP are lower.
Also some news for you - combat ranks mean shit. If we all went by combat ranks then CS would be one of the weakest weapons in the game.
With regard to stealthing PEs, I think either stealth needs a nerf which stops PEs from using it constantly whenever they get shot once, or it should be spy only. If PEs won't compromise then just take it off them.
Originally posted by Scikar
If PEs won't compromise then just take it off them. Ya know, this is so true about EVERYTHING in the game, and it seems players dont realize it.
Noobs whining about PKers, parashock, lame actions like genrep camps and zone hoppers, stealth... ALL of these issues would be non-issues if people didnt always try to push the system to the limits, and respect the gameplay.
If PKers would leave noobs alone, you wouldnt have seen as much action taken to help those that want to avoid PvP. If people wouldnt abuse paraspam in op fights and in PvP, people wouldnt be in the forums whining to have it removed. If PEs didnt use stealth as their first line defense, they would never have people asking to have it removed.
If/when stealth is removed from the PE, I hope the PEs dont try and blame KK...
Originally posted by Scikar
No, no, no, no, no. Liberator is FAR better than PE. It deals much more damage. It's also easier to cap RoF on Lib than PE.
As a low tech Lib user, you can have very high agility. That means you can have low athletics. That means high HP and resists. A low tech PE user cannot have as much agility because he needs more R-C to cap PE. Even with capped PE, Lib is better. And then he needs higher athletics so his resists/HP are lower.
Also some news for you - combat ranks mean shit. If we all went by combat ranks then CS would be one of the weakest weapons in the game.
With regard to stealthing PEs, I think either stealth needs a nerf which stops PEs from using it constantly whenever they get shot once, or it should be spy only. If PEs won't compromise then just take it off them. Well I definitel agree combat rank mens shit but I disagree on the PE vs Libby. The PE is a fantastic weapon and is greatly underused. (Which Im glad it is, rifle PEs makes me nervous :p). Tbh Im probably better with the PE than I am with the Libby. I was about the same skill level in duels but I would massacre people in op wars with that thing. Ugh I miss it some times but I like being able to poke and hack warbots.
Originally posted by Scikar
No, no, no, no, no. Liberator is FAR better than PE. It deals much more damage. It's also easier to cap RoF on Lib than PE.
Personally I think that they are about the same. The libby TECHNICALLY does more damage, but the aiming is.... shit. Quite possibly worst aim excluding Wyatt Earp. Also even with a full reticle lock you will rarely hit with all four bullets... most of the time its just three. Considering that the reason the Libby has good PvP damage is the fact that it has the burst damage bonus, it doesn't do amazingly well in combat because when you do actually hit someone else it will be with around 2 bullets max.. unless you are really uber aiming or they are shit.
Also the PE is alot more useful at OP wars, and has a long range and the aiming is alot better. Which probably means that you hit more people with it, meaning that it does the same or more damage. The only downside to the PE is the small amount of slowdown... you don't even need to cap the RoF for it to be good.
Originally posted by Judge
Personally I think that they are about the same. The libby TECHNICALLY does more damage, but the aiming is.... shit. Quite possibly worst aim excluding Wyatt Earp. Also even with a full reticle lock you will rarely hit with all four bullets... most of the time its just three. Considering that the reason the Libby has good PvP damage is the fact that it has the burst damage bonus, it doesn't do amazingly well in combat because when you do actually hit someone else it will be with around 2 bullets max.. unless you are really uber aiming or they are shit.
Also the PE is alot more useful at OP wars, and has a long range and the aiming is alot better. Which probably means that you hit more people with it, meaning that it does the same or more damage. The only downside to the PE is the small amount of slowdown... you don't even need to cap the RoF for it to be good.
It's not burst bonus which makes the Lib more powerful. Lib has, in actual fact, higher base damage than CS. In PvM Lib outdamages CS. In PvP is where things change slightly due to Lib's lower burst bonus. However Pain Easer has very low base damage comparatively and it is my personal experience that Lib is still more lethal in PvP. PE also misses just as much really.
If you want to look at what makes me nervous, PEs with Pain Easers I find little problem dispatching. For a start, RoG is superior anyway. In terms of which PE weapons I don't like facing, RoG > Lib > PE > RoLH. RoLH PEs die too quickly to bother me. PE PEs make me laugh because Lib and RoG are better. Lib is higher than RoG in the hands of a skilled PE, but generally people who pull Libs on me tend to then proceed to punch holes in the nearby terrain while I gut them.
If you want to look at it in general, low tech R-C PE vs low tech P-C PE terms, P-C PE is superior because, IMO, not only is Lib > PE but a low tech P-C PE also has higher defence.
Originally posted by Scikar
It's not burst bonus which makes the Lib more powerful. Lib has, in actual fact, higher base damage than CS. In PvM Lib outdamages CS. In PvP is where things change slightly due to Lib's lower burst bonus. However Pain Easer has very low base damage comparatively and it is my personal experience that Lib is still more lethal in PvP. PE also misses just as much really.
What are you on about, when I tested it a while back it took (if
my memory serves me) something like 13 seconds to kill a hopper
with a CS and 20 seconds to kill it with a liberator. How is it that
the lib outdamages the CS again? And in PvP theres a huge
damage difference, Lib doing about half the damage CS does per
burst. Go test it if you dont believe me, I have.
Originally posted by Lupus
Liberator does out damage a Cursed Soul in PvM.
Weapon <> Damage per bullet <> Clipsize <> Damage per Clip <> time to fire 1 clip and reload <> Damage in 1min real time
TL91 Liberator <> 55 <> 40 <> 2200 <> 9 <> 14666.66667
TL105 Cursed Soul <> 108 <> 20 <> 2160 <> 9 <> 14400
The only problem is the Liberator doesn't hit every bullet from every burst consistantly. If it did, then it would out damage the CS every single time.
PvP is a completely different beast all together, and the CS beats the Liberator there.
I have every Pistol/Rifle/Heavy Weapon tested in the same way as the above two. It really shows just how under powered some weapons are.. Ie.
TL94 Tangent Assault Pulselaser Pistol <> 37 <> 39 <> 1443 <> 9 <> 9620 (This one I know you brought up before about being under-powered Rade) <-- Also, it shows 39 shots per clip since currently it fires in 3 shot bursts leaving 1 in the chamber.
TL93 Pain Easer <> 91 <> 30 <> 2730 <> 13 <> 12600
I'm fully aware of the other limitations hindering weapons like the Liberator ie.. Aim/Range/How many shots actually hit.. However.. Damage is not the downfall of the Liberator.
Thats the main reason we'll lock horns on this Rade. You look at the problem one sided. I tend to look at the real source of the problem. The way I go about fixing things is to prevent future problems from arising as other areas of the game are adjusted/fixed.
This is the third time I've ressurected this quote for you Rade. In PvP, yes, Lib does less damage, a combination of lower burst bonus and the fact that the majority of decent setups cap pierce resist. But Lib's base damage is higher, meaning it does more in PvM where burst bonus does not apply. It also, as you can see clearly, does a lot more damage than Pain Easer.
Originally posted by Scikar
This is the third time I've ressurected this quote for you Rade. In PvP, yes, Lib does less damage, a combination of lower burst bonus and the fact that the majority of decent setups cap pierce resist. But Lib's base damage is higher, meaning it does more in PvM where burst bonus does not apply. It also, as you can see clearly, does a lot more damage than Pain Easer.
And just as I told Lupus, and have told you countless times,
theres something wrong with those equations but I dont have
time to analyze it now, Ill check it later tonight. The empiric tests
that have been done show that CS greatly outdamages a Lib in
PvM as well.
Rade the thread is about 6 months old. How much time do you need to show that the equations are all wrong? If your tests are better than Lupus' then why is he in charge of QA with GM status and you are not?
Originally posted by Scikar
Rade the thread is about 6 months old. How much time do you need to show that the equations are all wrong?
I dont remember why me and lupus stopped discussing the
reasons behind why certain guns do more damage, I think it all
just faded away. I dont think the equation in itself is wrong, I
think there are more factors that you need to take in account.
Originally posted by Scikar
If your tests are better than Lupus' then why is he in charge of QA with GM status and you are not?
Hows acting stupid going for you?
Originally posted by Rade
Hows acting stupid going for you?
Better than acting intelligent seems to be going for you.
Originally posted by Scikar
Better than acting intelligent seems to be going for you.
LMFAO :lol:
I liked fenix's idea. At a bare minimum Stealth 2, 3, and obliterator should be SPY only, and you should start getting a drug haze after 4 or 5 uses, not 10+ as it is now of course stealth 2 doesn't seem to get drug haze because it lasts long enough to disapate the haze.
My feelings on PE with stealth is they are basicly a spy with better con and shelter (yes I know spies can get shelter with drugs). Does anyone else see this? Is this fair for the spy?
Spys get acces to more powerful weapons, like the FL and disruptor, without drugs. And the ability to cap them. Also they get better stealth. Oh and they can tradeskill (const, ress) without gimping combat too much.
Thats the main differences
Spies can't cap FL or Disrup without gimpage. Capping them cannot be done without leaving yourself vulnerable to fire and therefore killed by any fire modded weapon. I doubt a spy can use stealth 3 and still cap FL/Disrup without gimping speed. So a stealth 3 (certainly Oblit) spy with capped FL/Disrup is slow and vulnerable to fire. Also they can't spec good poison without seriously hurting something else.
Originally posted by Scikar
Also they can't spec good poison without seriously hurting something else.
And a PE can?
nonamebrandeggs
18-01-04, 01:15
Originally posted by Judge
And a PE can?
Yes, PEs could have 50 POR and still have the more def in other areas than a spy :).
The main reason that LIB does not outdamage the Cursed Soul in REAL FIREFIGHT CONDITIONS is simply because of the scatter rate. A lib burst will get between 50 to 68ish percent accuracy ( aka, around 2.7 hits per burst ) unless you are right up the mob's ass, in which case you will not even get 100% burst accuracy.
Cursed Souls on the other hand have a better accuracy ratio on the bursts themselves.
Even with a silencer, Liberator accuracy sucks bollocks big time.
Go read up on burst bonus. Lib and CS have the same accuracy in terms of chances to hit penalties on the burst. CS has longer range, Lib caps aiming. So they are in fact very similar.
A plasma shot that scatters but still hits the target does damage, amongs other things. a piercing weapon "miss" will always rebound harmlessly.
I max my lib in everything and believe me, hit rate is definitly not the same.
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Yes, PEs could have 50 POR and still have the more def in other areas than a spy :).
Yes but the point is that having that much poison as a PE will mean that your other resists will suffer quite alot. Which would probably mean that things like CS's do alot more damage.
I have talked to quite a few people who have tanks and PEs and they say that even not capped the CS's aiming is far superior to the libbys. Also even at full lock the libby will only hit with 3 bullets most of the time, additionally as lully says plasma rounds that don't "hit" still do damage.
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