View Full Version : Formula for Agi/Athl Balance?
From the Skill Guides thread in Player Guides:
Athletics (ATL): Athletics controls two things: how high you can jump, and how fast you can run. In fact, if you don't have at least 5 points in it, you really can't run at all - with the "run" key down, you'll move about the same speed as you walk. Important News: Reakktor changed the running speed formula a few patches ago, and here is how it works. Running speed is based on both Athletics and Agility. But it is not linear. If you have 75 in both, you are at the maximum possible speed. However, if you have 0 points in one of them, you have to have a whole 200 levels of the other one to get to the same speed.
Does anyone know the formula to calculate the amount in either skill that you would need to make up for not having 75 in the other skill?
QuantumDelta
13-01-04, 00:13
No one except the coders know this formula exactly.
Think I'll just make that clear before the rest of the crew shows up...
Haven't any of you taken linear algebra?
Ok so you know there is a point at 75, 75 and there is a point at 200, 0 and 0, 200
Thats enough to figure out the equation sirs! Break out your graphing calculators and get to work imo! If you haven't figured it out in 8 hours i wiill post the formula imo.
JackScratch
13-01-04, 01:31
Pardon me if I am incorrect, but didn't Loupus make a post with all these formulas in it? And I don't recal any cealings on the effects they have, however there may be cealings on how good at any activity you can be, I believe there is.
The formula he posted was one for calculating how much of a skill was used to determine a specific effect.
In this case the mod factor is 26% of a skill both AGI and ATH
So for instance you have 75 in both agi and ath thats 19.5 in each skill thats used for calculating... actually im too lazy to explain the rest of it.
QuantumDelta
13-01-04, 04:49
75/75 isn't the soft cap.
Though I don't know specifically what the softcap is, it's roughly 100/100 possibly a little higher.
The example Thanatos gave was just that, an example.
I always thought 70/70 gave you max speed. Having more may help you when frozen? And having more helps you when you have synaptic. But I don't think it's worth it.
Lenard
scuse me but you are assuming that the development is linear arent you :confused:
and also that the development for the 2 are the same.
From our point of view unless someone gets a hold of the source we prolly arent going to be able to know this precisely ever.
The best way i can see of finding this out might be by trial and error and establishing a pattern ( think physics):wtf: (kinda scary actually hehe)
ill tell you right now a guy with 150 agility and 50 athletics moves as fast as a guy with 100 agility and 100 athletics
im 99% sure its just those two added together = your speed
i sure as hell couldn't tell the difference between a pe with 75 ath and 75 agility, and a pe with 0 ath and 150 agility....and yes i tested it on test server, no noticable difference that i could detect
Original monk
13-01-04, 10:57
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
75/75 isn't the soft cap.
Though I don't know specifically what the softcap is, it's roughly 100/100 possibly a little higher.
The example Thanatos gave was just that, an example.
long time ive seen you here quantumdelta :)
As most peeps know, GM's have maxed skills. This means 255 AGL & 255 ATH. Yes, you are fast, but there were other runners tanks I had run after who were not much slower. So, I would guess that you can 'almost' cap runspeed in a standard account.
Here's a hint, the cap is actually 75 74 (74.375 to be exact)
C'mon none of you guys can figure out the formula? :(
Originally posted by Lenard
Haven't any of you taken linear algebra?
Ok so you know there is a point at 75, 75 and there is a point at 200, 0 and 0, 200
Thats enough to figure out the equation sirs! Break out your graphing calculators and get to work imo! If you haven't figured it out in 8 hours i wiill post the formula imo.
how do we know where there are points in a formula we don't know?
is this based on empirical evidence or something released from the devs which I missed?
if you take the ol' 26% formula which has been released, it would imply that an ATL of 150 is equiv to an ATL 75 + AGL 75
of course it takes 225 points to spec ATL150 versus 100 in 2 skills for the second one - so i makes it more efficient to spec in both skill groups
wasn't that all KK was tring to do?
75/75 isn't the cap, and that can be easily proved. Get you ath/agl at 75/75, time yourself running a set distance. Go back to start, pop a redflash and a whiteflash, and run the distance again. Notice the difference in time.
Originally posted by Scikar
75/75 isn't the cap, and that can be easily proved. Get you ath/agl at 75/75, time yourself running a set distance. Go back to start, pop a redflash and a whiteflash, and run the distance again. Notice the difference in time.
I dont personally think there is a "cap" as such - just when you hit 100 in either skill the change per extra point is so small its hard to track and few people really want to respec to 200 ATL to prove its significantly faster than 100
if its a proper linear algorithm then the change between ATL 5 and ATL 6 should be the same order of magnitude as the change between ATL 147 and ATL 148
wonder if anyone on test server has tried that?
[TgR]KILLER
13-01-04, 14:42
i don't realy care about it :p as long as i'm fast i'm ok :p i just put the "spare" points into those 2 skills and see were it goes.
all my chars have at least 105 agil/95 athletics, and with that i pop a red + White, to get around 130 agil/130 athletics.
The difference in speed is undenyable.
Anyone that believes 75/75 is the ultimate cap for speed is naive o_O
My PE has 100/90 or so, and he is MUCH faster than he was at 75/75. The difference is especially noteable when parashocked.
I find it funny that some people are snooty about the "formula" on runspeed, when in fact 75/75 is NOT even a cap. :rolleyes:
Ozambabbaz
13-01-04, 15:50
did some laps some 4-7 patches ago, max i used was something like 190 Agl and 160 ath
there was a runspeed cap for my char, on those 2 days, in those 5 hours at 107 agl and 67 ath...had same laptimes at as the 190ish/160ish
Originally posted by L0KI
all my chars have at least 105 agil/95 athletics, and with that i pop a red + White, to get around 130 agil/130 athletics.
The difference in speed is undenyable.
I think you are ignorant if you think that is true. It may look like it on YOUR screen, but not to other people. Other people see you running at about 80/80. Tested and verified**
Been more than 8 hours now :p
Originally posted by MindMaze
I think you are ignorant if you think that is true. It may look like it on YOUR screen, but not to other people. Other people see you running at about 80/80. Tested and verified**
So if you ran a 130/130 char with an 80/80 char, going round the racetrack together for several hours, you'd eventually lap him on your screen yet on his screen you never left his side?
Or would everyone in the zone sync out and crash before it got that far? ;p
Originally posted by Breschau
So if you ran a 130/130 char with an 80/80 char, going round the racetrack together for several hours, you'd eventually lap him on your screen yet on his screen you never left his side?
Yup, you'd never leave his side. On your screen, you'd be 10 miles away from him, but not on his :p To him, it'll look like you are floating.
That sounds like it could have fairly serious implications, esp. depending on which persons client the server would rely on for attacks etc. eg, if the 80/80 guy shoots the guy by his side, does it register to that guy? And if that guy shoots some other 80/80 guy elsewhere in the zone, will it register on him (might appear to be line of sight to the 130/130, but for the 80/80 he's not come over that hill yet). What if you ran around like that for a while before a big fight, such that your position was totally and utterly out of sync with everyone else (not just a metre or so).
Well, yes, you are talking about exploiting. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it. This game is so buggy, that I think anything is possible with exploiting.
Originally posted by MindMaze
Yup, you'd never leave his side. On your screen, you'd be 10 miles away from him, but not on his :p To him, it'll look like you are floating.
easy way to test
two runners - one specced at 140/140 on at 80/80 run side by side (pref along a road) from north edge of zone to southern edge and then zone
an independant viewer on other side of zone edge judges who appears first and how long the delay is inbetween the two
if your right they both come through at about same time (maybe 1 or 2 second difference to account for server/ping disparity)
if your wrong they come through with several seconds difference
I'd back there to be a clear difference
QuantumDelta
14-01-04, 03:08
Originally posted by Original monk
long time ive seen you here quantumdelta :)
I'm still around, remember I didn't quit, and I still love this game, I just ran outta money for the time being ;)
Originally posted by Ozambabbaz
did some laps some 4-7 patches ago, max i used was something like 190 Agl and 160 ath
there was a runspeed cap for my char, on those 2 days, in those 5 hours at 107 agl and 67 ath...had same laptimes at as the 190ish/160ish
Sadly, with the slightly random FPS drops/spikes in the Neocron that I left (don't know if it's changed but I doubt it), even this isn't reliable.... - It's an interesting one though, I felt the cap was somewhere in the area of 110/110 but no one knows and I can't offer much evidence other than gut instinct to back that.
Originally posted by MindMaze
I think you are ignorant if you think that is true. It may look like it on YOUR screen, but not to other people. Other people see you running at about 80/80. Tested and verified**
I hope you realise connection speed has a HEAVY influence on the visual observation of people running? especially in concentrated areas like NF, or wasteland zones.
If the observer was independant then this might hold some weight, but again you have to take into account the following;
FPS on all machines involved.
Connection speed and ping of all machines involved.
World zone.
FreeLoad.
There's a lot of stupid things, even terrain can mess things like this up.
And I pretty much agree with Rith providing the four things I listed were taken into account.
Heh, you all are welcome to test, I'm not dictating anything :p
From my experience, what I said holds true.
Originally posted by Breschau
That sounds like it could have fairly serious implications, esp. depending on which persons client the server would rely on for attacks etc. eg, if the 80/80 guy shoots the guy by his side, does it register to that guy? And if that guy shoots some other 80/80 guy elsewhere in the zone, will it register on him (might appear to be line of sight to the 130/130, but for the 80/80 he's not come over that hill yet). What if you ran around like that for a while before a big fight, such that your position was totally and utterly out of sync with everyone else (not just a metre or so).
Yes you will hit that person. There is actually a crazy exploit that well, exploits that bug. Actually several~ roofles
read this thread at work in dinnertime yesterday, when I got home I decided to try it.
I had 70/70 in my apus agl/atl
I lommed the atl and put it in health
then lommed my veh and put it in agl
i cant remember the final figure in agl, but...........
now I have more health and run faster!!! cool! :cool:
havent used the vehicles for ages anyway.
now my minds thinking, maybe I could lom a bit of that extra health and put more in resists?? hmmmm
I would also take into consideration that Agility has an effect on jumping height and strafing when making a setup... they don't cap at 75/75 either.
Even if the cap isn't at 70 or 75 or whatever, it's pretty worthless to put more points in for little benefit when you could get resists and dex skills instead.
Captain Chaos
15-01-04, 12:04
just done some testing...
i ran the same distance (pp1, from the sewerentrance near the sync to the opposite wall where the TS guard stands) with two different setups...
was like 5-6 seconds without gun, and about 9-10 seconds with gun drawn... one setup was my retailtank with 58 atl(pa3) / 108 agl, the other was a tank on testserver, 132 atl / 132 agl ...
no other ppl or effects were in my sight, so the framerates were equal
dunno bout other ppl, but i don't think there's much difference between the "softcap" at 75/75 (if it's there :p) and skilling beyond it
Nightbrother
15-01-04, 12:09
I've seen tanks fly by so fast sometimes, that it looked like they took 20 feet steps. And with my 100 Agl / 105 Ath I had no possible way at all of catching up. It seriously felt like they ran twice my speed, although that's not likely. Maybe they have all been GM's with 255/255, but I doubt it.
Originally posted by Rith
easy way to test
two runners - one specced at 140/140 on at 80/80 run side by side (pref along a road) from north edge of zone to southern edge and then zone
an independant viewer on other side of zone edge judges who appears first and how long the delay is inbetween the two
if your right they both come through at about same time (maybe 1 or 2 second difference to account for server/ping disparity)
if your wrong they come through with several seconds difference
I'd back there to be a clear difference
I dont think that is necessarily right. It may be that the neocron servers will allow zoning when a zone change request is sent by the client, regardless of where the server thinks their actual character is in the zone.
If the theory about how fast you're actually running is true, this is the only thing they could do to avoid it looking unrealistic when you get to the zone point and have to wait.
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