View Full Version : Increase Tanks runnspeed with Cannons out
Promethius
10-01-04, 21:04
One of the major reasons other classes own tanks is because of the rediculous speed tanks are with there guns out. WHile monks, Pe's, Spys run fast tanks get pwned with there low speed.
Anyone else feel tanks runspeed with cannons out should be increased?
Not saying no reduced run speed but an increaase to it.
(if agree put 5 stars)
Yeah totally agree, when the other class can smoothly dance around , the tank is left alone, kinda annoying to be so slow o,0. Boost speed with weapon out and decrease the stamina drain a lil more.
Then i want a boost speed aswell, my pistol is really heavy when i run around with it at times.
Promethius
10-01-04, 21:12
Originally posted by Duder
Then i want a boost speed aswell, my pistol is really heavy when i run around with it at times.
erm wat are u talking about. If your gunna post nonsense don't post on my thread.
If the -ath from monk pa comes into retail, then there will be less monks running around fast, but still, tanks need so much more speed, PA and cannon runspeed nerfage is just way too much and causes less people to wear PA
Originally posted by Duder
Then i want a boost speed aswell, my pistol is really heavy when i run around with it at times.
That pistol your using probably weighs more than the cannon the tanks using :rolleyes: so hows about PE's get the same malus to their runspeed eh ? Thats going by your logic ...
Well cannon weight is higher then pistol , but then a gentank is specialy made for such things so he can wield it without to many loss of power cause he doesnt have a fragile bodyor weak body (big balls no brain)...just another view at it.
nonamebrandeggs
10-01-04, 21:19
Tanks can run very quickly, just spec lots of ath/agil (Not like it's hard).
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 21:19
So you guys want speed higher than that of pistol PE's, and vastly superior firepower? (and it IS vastly superior, in a straight fire fight a PE will loose to a tank, whatever you say about PE defence/resists, speed is the PEs main defence.)
Psycho_Soldier
10-01-04, 21:21
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
So you guys want speed higher than that of pistol PE's, and vastly superior firepower? (and it IS vastly superior, in a straight fire fight a PE will loose to a tank, whatever you say about PE defence/resists, speed is the PEs main defence.)
Since you made that comment, I would like to ask you 1 thing. How many CS burst can you take headshot? I am assuming you are a PE.
well put dribble, I do agree a slight runspeed boost would make tanks more fun to play with and pvp with....but dmg for dmg a PE is one of the weakest classes..
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 21:25
I will drop well before I get close to hurting a tank.
I don't know exactly, but probably about 50-55 ish dmg a burst, 400 hp so about 10 bursts (less dmg is done at low hp, as you should know)
It would take ages for me to kill a decent tank with my judge.
Psycho_Soldier
10-01-04, 21:28
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I will drop well before I get close to hurting a tank.
I don't know exactly, but probably about 50-55 ish dmg a burst, 400 hp so about 10 bursts (less dmg is done at low hp, as you should know)
It would take ages for me to kill a decent tank with my judge.
Well thats your choice on weapon. You can probably have around 500hp same resist and have a better weapon.
Mumblyfish
10-01-04, 21:29
You know, there's two weapon subskills in STR...
Originally posted by Sefran
Well cannon weight is higher then pistol , but then a gentank is specialy made for such things so he can wield it without to many loss of power cause he doesnt have a fragile bodyor weak body (big balls no brain)...just another view at it.
I think cannons should weigh a lot more. That would make it seem a little more realistic to be slowed down. A cannon shouldnt be something a tank can just weild as a pistol and run fast with.
Spec some melee and nerf your piercing resists and you have the choice of H-C and melee when you need speed. As i was told countless times when I asked for increased spy damage. You want the option to be good at combat AND tradeskills? You cant have it both ways.
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 21:32
I dont think my resists can get much better really...
I have a moveon and ppr, 133 energy 129 fire/xray 83 atl 78 agl.
I could use beast and use lvl 3 inq but.. ugh.
For 500 hp you need an insane amount of htl like... 135 which is far too many points to use up out of resists.
I might take less dmg now, as I have lommed back to a br2 setup, and more dmg on my shelter/def.
psycho what are you smoking?
Better resists with a gun better than the judge and 500hp? Have you played a PE?
Originally posted by Psycho_Soldier
... How many CS burst can you take headshot? ...
well, we all know that tanks are a poor class with only one weapon and no other skills.
Definately....its not like a cs is fucking uber dmg compared to any other weapon.... 5 star
Promethius
10-01-04, 21:50
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Tanks can run very quickly, just spec lots of ath/agil (Not like it's hard).
your missins the point. yes tanks NORMAL no guns out run speed is FINE. Pull out a cannon....then see how FAST uc an be. There is no speccing for runspeed with guns out. You could have like 150 agility and 115 ath and still be slow as shit with gun out. Especialy to PE's / monks
Promethius
10-01-04, 21:52
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
So you guys want speed higher than that of pistol PE's, and vastly superior firepower? (and it IS vastly superior, in a straight fire fight a PE will loose to a tank, whatever you say about PE defence/resists, speed is the PEs main defence.)
no. i dont want speed HIGHER than a PE's. i said i want the speed reduction on a tank with his guns OUT reduced. not gone reduced.
Promethius
10-01-04, 21:55
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I will drop well before I get close to hurting a tank.
I don't know exactly, but probably about 50-55 ish dmg a burst, 400 hp so about 10 bursts (less dmg is done at low hp, as you should know)
It would take ages for me to kill a decent tank with my judge.
PE's take WAY more dmg than tanks. Well the smarts one pop a heal and fight there for taking alot more than a Tank. ALso u run faster so i highly doubt ur gunna get nailed with a CS 10 bursts before the tank is dead.
It may jsut be me but i always thought tanks were suppose to take the most dmg beside a PPU *points at 100 CON* but as we all kno they dont.
And stop talking about ur PE it sin't about PEs its about tanks gimped runspeed with cannons out.
Originally posted by Mirco
I think cannons should weigh a lot more. That would make it seem a little more realistic to be slowed down. A cannon shouldnt be something a tank can just weild as a pistol and run fast with.
Spec some melee and nerf your piercing resists and you have the choice of H-C and melee when you need speed. As i was told countless times when I asked for increased spy damage. You want the option to be good at combat AND tradeskills? You cant have it both ways.
No your saying it wrong. Wat ur saying about HC or melee is like saying for a spy rifles or pistole. not tradeskill and combat. Thats like saying to a tank u can either Poke or fight....
im sorry to be an absoulute twat but thats why they're 'Heavy Weapons' i agree slightly it should be increased SLIGHTLY but not loads, as Rifles, Pistol, and your own hand arent that heavy compared to the 'heavy weapons'
/me dives for cover from flames
~T
Originally posted by Promethius
One of the major reasons other classes own tanks is because of the rediculous speed tanks are with there guns out. WHile monks, Pe's, Spys run fast tanks get pwned with there low speed.
Anyone else feel tanks runspeed with cannons out should be increased?
Not saying no reduced run speed but an increaase to it.
(if agree put 5 stars)
what a stupid idea for krist sake if you wanna be fast spec melee Have you thought how over powerd tanks would be if a tank with a cursed soul being as fast as a Monk you would run round players owning them indeffantly its a thick idea the speed with guns out is liek one the only dissadvantages you have god damn it stop moning and live with it
Idiot >:|
Psycho_Soldier
10-01-04, 21:57
Originally posted by StrongSad
psycho what are you smoking?
Better resists with a gun better than the judge and 500hp? Have you played a PE?
I made a RoG PE that could take about 12-13 CS burst and have decent runspead. Also the RoG is capped Dmg and aiming. I have also heard of PE's with much better resist and better weapon. For example I heard that Rabbi Fang can take like 18 CS burst and use RoLH. I would have to see it to believe it though.
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:00
Again I have no I dea how many CS bursts I can take.
I have not tested my current setup. I also use redflash. (btw was your setup with br3/haz1/heat1? cos if it was it will be shite after the next patch)
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:01
Originally posted by Filth
what a stupid idea for krist sake if you wanna be fast spec melee Have you thought how over powerd tanks would be if a tank with a cursed soul being as fast as a Monk you would run round players owning them indeffantly its a thick idea the speed with guns out is liek one the only dissadvantages you have god damn it stop moning and live with it
Idiot >:|
Yo maybe u shoudl READ my posts before u make ill tempered posts. I said i want the reduction to speed with guns out nerfed a little. No where have i said tanks should be AS fast as PE's/Monks. just boost tank speed with guns out not get rid of it......READ before posting. Stop with the ONOZ u should be melee to run fast.
Ever wonder why this game is called Monk-o-cron?
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:03
I CAN take an insane number of bursts if I want to. I can stuff myself with hemserol, paratemol forte, br3, energy/xray/fire res potions and no redflash.
I'm talking about my standard operating setup.
hah so apprently you wanna nerf every one yah right oki what ever you say ....... tanks have had enuff love god get over it if you have problems spec diffrantly.. GOODBYE...
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:08
I mean u got dribble talkin about his pe since the beginning of the thread....which is totaly irrelevant.
And u filth makin up Bs about nerfing everyone.
All i've asked for is a boost to speed with cannons out. I'm not saying SUPER RUN SPEED. just a boost as to help tanks out a bit. And you already made your point of u don't liek it....so piss off
A good PE will take 12 or so CS bursts, ( a very well setup PE could take 14 without psi shield), a good tank will take about 10 cs bursts.
That means that if you have a tank and pe, standing still, each being shot by another thank with a cs, the PE will last roughly 2-4 seconds longer....
Though I agree that the runspeed nerf should be reduced, but if this happens the nerf speed on rifles should also be reduced imo.
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:11
Originally posted by Possessed
A good PE will take 12 or so CS bursts, ( a very well setup PE could take 14 without psi shield), a good tank will take about 10 cs bursts.
That means that if you have a tank and pe, standing still, each being shot by another thank with a cs, the PE will last roughly 2-4 seconds longer....
Yes, but a PE damage out put is probably 60-70% that of a tanks. The PE will drop first in a fight with a tank.
Originally posted by Possessed
A good PE will take 12 or so CS bursts, ( a very well setup PE could take 14 without psi shield), a good tank will take about 10 cs bursts.
That means that if you have a tank and pe, standing still, each being shot by another thank with a cs, the PE will last roughly 2-4 seconds longer....
Though I agree that the runspeed nerf should be reduced, but if this happens the nerf speed on rifles should also be reduced imo.
try 14 burst :)
both the pe and tank hav same defence tanks hav more power and pes hav lower damage
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:15
Anyway, what I was getting at, is that balance between speed, aiming, damage output and defences, is quite sound and the need for a reduction in the tank speed 'nerf' isn't needed.
am with u on that and am a tank but prom will beat me when i logg on :)
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:24
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Yes, but a PE damage out put is probably 60-70% that of a tanks. The PE will drop first in a fight with a tank.
Dribble FFS this sin't about PEs. You say a PE can take 14 shots well i don't kno if u kno this but Pes can run cast and cap tl 3 heal...so u may as well add a few more burst into that. And in real fight no PE or anyone gets nailed 14 times ina row without missing. Which during that period ur healing. While a tank is dieing.
SO drop the PE shit and focus. IF u cant, leave the thread.
Tanks need a boost. But increased runspeed is not the key, that will only increase their duelling ability which is not where they are meant to stand out. They need a boost in their ability to fight in OP wars. They were bred for mass combat with hundred or thousands of other units fighting alongside them, I think that when they are in a team with other tanks they should get a cumulative bonus to Health and HC/MC for each member in their team. Full ideas here (http://neocron2.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86961&highlight=boost+thread).
Originally posted by Promethius
Dribble FFS this sin't about PEs. You say a PE can take 14 shots well i don't kno if u kno this but Pes can run cast and cap tl 3 heal...so u may as well add a few more burst into that. And in real fight no PE or anyone gets nailed 14 times ina row without missing. Which during that period ur healing. While a tank is dieing.
SO drop the PE shit and focus. IF u cant, leave the thread.
One of the PEs main bonuses is their speed, if tanks get faster then that bonus is lessened. He has all the right in the world to talk about PEs because there needs to be comparison between different classes runspeeds to damage output and defence. Without that you can't warrant a boost.
I was only comparing a tanks and a PEs defence against another tank with a cs... just proving that the defence difference is only 4 seconds (or there abouts), and that the PEs main defence is there speed....
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:29
Originally posted by Judge
I think that when they are in a team with other tanks they should get a cumulative bonus to Health and HC/MC for each member in their team. Full ideas here (http://neocron2.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86961&highlight=boost+thread).
Indeed
Originally posted by Possesed
I was only comparing a tanks and a PEs defence against another tank with a cs... just proving that the defence difference is only 4 seconds (or there abouts), and that the PEs main defence is there speed....
Ah, sorry.
im only gonna respond to Proms original post.
and i say im down with this idea.
a small reduction in the run speed nerf when you have your weapon out would be nice.
not asking for it to be like it used to be in the old days, and i dont think prom is either.
the people who think tanks are fine as they are proberbly dont play or PvP with them much am i right?
I don't think that tanks are fine... I think that they are fine in Duels but I think that they need to have their uses in Op wrs boosted significantly, as do spies.
Originally posted by Promethius
Dribble FFS this sin't about PEs. You say a PE can take 14 shots well i don't kno if u kno this but Pes can run cast and cap tl 3 heal...so u may as well add a few more burst into that. And in real fight no PE or anyone gets nailed 14 times ina row without missing. Which during that period ur healing. While a tank is dieing.
SO drop the PE shit and focus. IF u cant, leave the thread.
good point prom peeps dont relize pes can run heal. liek me pe :)
They can run heal with high psi use. Which means a loss of either weapon lore, or a tradeskill like hack if you are a pistol PE.
I agree 100%. Speed is a crucial element in PvP and the speed penalty to tanks is unwarranted.
The argument that tank weapons weigh more than another weapon is ludicrous. The weapons do damage based on their TL and that's all. If tank weapons also did more damage because they weighed more then it would be logical.
Whether it's the horrible heavy combat PA or the run speed nerf with drawn weapons, HC tanks are always being penalized on the one and only skill from which their power comes...CON. How about when a monk pulls out a spell their PPW goes down by 10 levels? :lol:
Originally posted by Judge
They can run heal with high psi use. Which means a loss of either weapon lore, or a tradeskill like hack if you are a pistol PE.
umm u be surprized. its much much less. am on the border sometimes i fail. but most of the time i heal like 90% of the time. if i lag i fail thou. so its more fps then anyhting.
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:54
Originally posted by Judge
They can run heal with high psi use. Which means a loss of either weapon lore, or a tradeskill like hack if you are a pistol PE.
my spy can run cast heal. he also has 150 weapon lore and tl 115 poke plus psi use.
Though I'm not sure how much Int a PE gets but i kno they get a hell of alot more PSI. Also they can dmg boost....SO people saying Pes don't do enough dmg....they were never met to outpower tanks in everyway. Besides the dmg tanks do PE's outclass them.
me personally thing we need tank pa ath removed. then maybe we can agree to leive slwo down form weapons ok. am ok with the gun thing but i am slower then a snail walking up hill goin down wind aginst a high class hurricane.
lets fix pa and maybe it will solve some issues. because remeber mroe ath and agility also means u run faster with gun out.
and with better aim from pa it might help a shit more. and tanks may get some more loving.
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:55
Originally posted by BombShell
umm u be surprized. its much much less. am on the border sometimes i fail. but most of the time i heal like 90% of the time. if i lag i fail thou. so its more fps then anyhting.
well my spy caps heal in every way and all it takes is a quick half second stop then keep running. (use it to tag it on PPUS =))
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 22:56
With about 35-40 PSU a PE will cap the freq and dmg on a tl3 heal, thier higher run speed means that they can't actually run cast it, but stagger casting is possible.
I have 100WEP, 36 PSU, 100 poke when buffed.
Promethius
10-01-04, 22:58
Originally posted by BombShell
me personally thing we need tank pa ath removed. then maybe we can agree to leive slwo down form weapons ok. am ok with the gun thing but i am slower then a snail walking up hill goin down wind aginst a high class hurricane.
lets fix pa and maybe it will solve some issues. because remeber mroe ath and agility also means u run faster with gun out.
and with better aim from pa it might help a shit more. and tanks may get some more loving.
bomb theres nota single thing wrong with PA. Like all class's the PA takes away soemthing. You jsut specc for that. erm or the smart ones. Either way thers alot of people who don't even use PA...
problems not with pa its with the speed slow down with cannons out jsut reduce that reduction a little. (key term: little). Tanks get enough COn to put more into ath to compensate for the -25 ath. which dopesn't really matter cuz if u have agil + ath = 140 ur fine.
SO 130 agil + 25 ath and ur set for runspeed. Works opposite aswell. 50 agil / 100 ath run the same speed.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
So you guys want speed higher than that of pistol PE's, and vastly superior firepower? (and it IS vastly superior, in a straight fire fight a PE will loose to a tank, whatever you say about PE defence/resists, speed is the PEs main defence.)
Dude, seriously.....
As for the rest of you, sure tanks are on the slow end of the genepool, i manage fine, infact, i own :p to the pistol pusseeeeee's sure i can see why you wouldnt want a tank runspeed increase, coz the nyour seriously overpowered setups for rolh wouldnt mean shit coz a tank wouild actually be able to out 'dance' you.
To the others amongst you, the cs needs looked at, runspeed although a pain in the arse isnt that bad. The problem i have with my tank is that when i have an off day i get fucking owned.....not coz im not being 1337 enough, but coz somedays no matter how many cs burst i hit, im lucky if 3 score out of 20, so....... even with every point in heavy combat, a tank is highly unlikely to fully cap his 'cs' i mean aim and rof, and thats with a decent cs.
Majority of cs come out unslotted, with midrange stats, wich given tanks natural ability to have mebbe 210? heavy combat with PA and yet still cant cap his weapons fully.
CS drops are by far the suckiest, the aim sucks balls, sure the damage is pretty swell, but so what, if you cant aim it then what the point of having 1337 dmg?
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
With about 35-40 PSU a PE will cap the freq and dmg on a tl3 heal, thier higher run speed means that they can't actually run cast it, but stagger casting is possible.
I have 100WEP, 36 PSU, 100 poke when buffed
Dude......again.....you can runcast it, you can also runcast shelter with the right knowledge (its been reported :P)
Tank resists, even with the 1337357 537UP around do not even come CLOSE to a PE's defense, the aim is worse, the speed is MUCH worse, the stamina is also worse, *im not including lib coz the only comparison to that is a speedgat......*
So dont bitch about 'omfg if tanks get more speed i want.....' or 'omfg if tanks get more speed then the have to lose damage' tanks need love not trades or sacrifices.
*not aimed at dribble personally but picked out the funniest points*
yah prom. i know about specing but i hav 180 and run faster then even u. and am nto sure it was u but i beleive we used to race in sewers trying to see whos faster and rmeeber ever time we put pa on we r slower. and i like my 205 h-c which almostc apps my cs.
pe pa doesnt nerf much i dont even use blessed deflector even when it i had no pa. their was no need. i had 400% shelter and everyone had shitter defence.
spy pa hmm big gimp their
monk pa. duno on test but ill hate to see the same shit happen to them. nerfing is not the answer i believe its improve the shit we need now and if need more. i like ur idea to increase just a little no to much.
but i can live with it i just want pa better and ape more damage for tanks at this moment.
edit- also its the combines weapon and pa i hate. u run faster with out pa with wepaon out if u spec more ath.
robdekoning
10-01-04, 23:10
Asking for unnerfs is asking for nerfes in the future
this is how i see it; Tank speed gets unnerfed, 50% and their rabbits reroll to a tank which gives tankocron, People bitch about it, tanks get nerfed. Tanks have it good now, with the dev
well asking for nerfs is asking for other nwerfs to other classes. soon we wont be able to kill a roach.
Promethius
10-01-04, 23:17
Originally posted by robdekoning
Asking for unnerfs is asking for nerfes in the future
this is how i see it; Tank speed gets unnerfed, 50% and their rabbits reroll to a tank which gives tankocron, People bitch about it, tanks get nerfed. Tanks have it good now, with the dev
I'm no fortune teller but I can a;most gaurantee that if they increased tank speed with guns OUT this game will still be monk-o-cron.
Or how bout this. Have it put into the test server...and see hwo it is...cuz wat i always thought a test server was to test it. But from wat it seems. Everything that goes into teh test server end up on retail...which requires a hot fix right after...
Spectra260
10-01-04, 23:18
i agree....
Promethius
10-01-04, 23:27
Originally posted by Spectra260
i agree....
lol with wat?
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 23:34
My heall is fully capped, when running unloaded, with my redflash, on flat terrain and i cast my heal, it fails.
I was going to answer to the rest, but.. pffft, cba, too mangled to pick anything out and try and form something resembling a post.
Personally I think tanks are good as they are. But thier resists are very limited. Why? Becuase once you hit 126 in a resist, every point after does HARDLY ANYTHING AT ALL. Its annoying that my PE has 126-130 in all resists, and my tank has 160 in all resists, and unsheltered my pe takes maybe 4-8hp of dmg more from a CS then my tank does.
Going from 130-160 in a resist should be a HUGE difference...aka a capped con tank with 160 in all resists shoudl take something like 50 from a cs blast...
Its unfair to the tank class that resist effect goes so drastically down after about 126, because almost any can get up to that number in each primary resist.
superfresh
11-01-04, 00:03
If this was a poll I'd vote yes. If I can carry it, it shouldn't affect my speed so dramatically whether its out or in my "backpack." maybe a little, but not nearly as much as it is now.
Mumblyfish
11-01-04, 00:04
If you pick Heavy Combat you should get OWNED by anything that moves quickly. Stop whining.
The thing is, I'm serious.
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 00:05
I don't want the tank runspeed thing changed, not because we want to be 'l33ter' but because (as I have said) the balance between all aspects of combat, between PEs and tanks is as balanced as it has ever been.
Don't fix what ain't broke.
Re. the resist thing, again, a change to the defence given to armour bonuses would seriously unbalance things.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I don't want the tank runspeed thing change because we want to be 'l33ter' but because (as I have said) the balance between all aspects of combat, between PEs and tanks is as balanced as it has ever been.
Don't fix what ain't broke.
Re. the resist thing, again, a change to the defence given to armour bonuses would seriously unbalance things.
Exactly my point :D
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 00:08
Dude, you virtually flamed me in your last post.
Anyway. PEs should be able to dance like mofos, and tanks shouldn't :D
Oath... what you were saying about the CS aim... I have never actually used a CS so I can't really comment on any sort of comparison but I must point out that Lib aim SUCKS. It is by far the worst aiming gun I have ever used... even at Melee range. Also with full lock on, completely closed, you hit 3 out of 4 shot almost always.
I don't see why you can only compare it with speedgat, because it is the staple gun of the pistol PE... RoLH being reduced quite severely due to PE PA 4 nerfs.
Originally posted by Judge
Oath... what you were saying about the CS aim... I have never actually used a CS so I can't really comment on any sort of comparison but I must point out that Lib aim SUCKS. It is by far the worst aiming gun I have ever used... even at Melee range. Also with full lock on, completely closed, you hit 3 out of 4 shot almost always.
I don't see why you can only compare it with speedgat, because it is the staple gun of the pistol PE... RoLH being reduced quite severely due to PE PA 4 nerfs.
speedgat is the only truely rapid fire weapon a tank has.......ergo i compare it to the libby, wich is rapid fire.
And dribble, twas reverse psychology as you proved, it worked :D
I'd rather see them increase damage and leave speed alone.
shodanjr_gr
11-01-04, 00:43
Ok, my main char aint a tank, he is a monk. I wouldnt benefit from an increase in HC tank run speed. But i think it should happen. We got some facts:
Fact a)NC combat is close ranged
Fact b)Only tank weapon viable for PVP is CS (and speedgun on occassion)
Fact c)If you pull CS out, your runspeed is reduced greatly
Fact d)If you are slow, you die easier.}
Fact e)Tank weapon aiming sucks
Now, if heavy combat was actually long ranged(as it should be IMHO) the reduction of runspeed will using such a waepon would be expected. But considering the close ranged combat that takes place in NC most of the time, and in which everyother class runs like the wind (and half the classes can stealth away), being slow means being dead. Besides tanks are supposed to use heavy weapons. They are trained to use em effectively and thus i cant see how they would be slowed to a crawl by them.
Tanks used to be fast with cannons out, then some carebears from EQ convinced KK to slow them down because "Its more realistic"...
This is yet another one of the reasons I quit the game way back.
Amazing they still haven't fixed it.
Tanks could do with a bit of a runspeed with wep out boost , but not toooo much, because with 100+ agil (absolutely possible, without gimpin anything) and 50-70 (yep, not even cap level) agilit, I can move my tank more than fast enough to take out enemies, but yea, would be nicer to be a little bit faster.
Why do you !@#*ers always wait several months before complaining about !@#* like this? Honestly if you think about it. Real world heavy weapons don't allow you to move at all, so why should you be allowed to RUN with some huge ass rocket launcher on your shoulder? You want to be able to have the highest defense, 2nd highest attack AND be able to run fast? Yeah right imo.
Honestly if you whiners actually thought about some of the stuff you ask for, maybe this forum would be a better place.
Edit - On second thought give the tanks a runspeed increase, but lower their defense and or offensive skills
Originally posted by Promethius
No your saying it wrong. Wat ur saying about HC or melee is like saying for a spy rifles or pistole. not tradeskill and combat. Thats like saying to a tank u can either Poke or fight....
But then I can counter you with: Spies get with the ability to fight with pistols or rifles and tradeskill, but at the same time get lousy defence(especially now that poison is back) and not that high damage. Tanks get high damage, good defence and glue a ppu to him and he is pretty uber. Speed on top of this I believe would overpower.
I might be going out on a limb here, but I think that cannons weigh as little as they do out of conviency. The same with Tank PA. It is supposed to be (edit: I wrote happy for some reason.)heavy and therefor you have the hit to athletics instead of transport. If you should simulate real weight tanks might not have that great carrying capacity which would make you run to gogo more often than I go to the toilet to pee when I`m drunk(I have no capacity).
Tanks need more boost in offence and/or different delivery methods. I fail to see why a cannons should be close range weapons at all. I would like to see cannons as long range weapons with long reload times and heavy damage output and tanks relying on melee weapons close up. This could easily be translated to increased damage on the aoe tank weapons.
Idealy I would like tanks to have weapons like the cs or the speed gat, but as turretversions. You set them up and engage the enemy from afar. They could have high rof and be fired and behave like aoe weapons with smaller blast radius at the expence of reduced mobility.
Mr Friendly
11-01-04, 01:13
what are u guys? idiots? give the char who has the most powerful weapons that kill any char no matter what their resists are.......& has 500+ health on average.....able to run fast as if they have their cannons holstered?....:rolleyes:
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 01:36
Exactly
Dade Murphey
11-01-04, 01:38
run speed with cannons out used to be faster...remember when we had warping tanks and all that fun crap...leave it as it is...we don't need fast/dangerous/hearty tanks...fine as is
Originally posted by Mr Friendly
what are u guys? idiots? give the char who has the most powerful weapons that kill any char no matter what their resists are.......& has 500+ health on average.....able to run fast as if they have their cannons holstered?....:rolleyes:
umm if tanks are killing any character then the enemy of the tanks must be shit.
and prom aint asking for tanks to run at full spped with there gun out, just the speed nerf reduced a bit
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Fact a)NC combat is close ranged
Except for rifles
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Fact b)Only tank weapon viable for PVP is CS (and speedgun on occassion)
Erm... devourer?
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Fact c)If you pull CS out, your runspeed is reduced greatly
Fact d)If you are slow, you die easier.}
Yes, but its a weakness. Every class has a weakness...
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Fact e)Tank weapon aiming sucks
Not as much as the Lib apparantly. I have talked to a guy who plays a PE and Tank and he says, and I quote "Compared to the libby, the CS aims like a dream".
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Now, if heavy combat was actually long ranged(as it should be IMHO) the reduction of runspeed will using such a waepon would be expected. But considering the close ranged combat that takes place in NC most of the time, and in which everyother class runs like the wind (and half the classes can stealth away), being slow means being dead. Besides tanks are supposed to use heavy weapons. They are trained to use em effectively and thus i cant see how they would be slowed to a crawl by them.
Being slow is tanks only real weakness. They may have less defence than a PE overall, but generally none of their resists actually have a weakness. A tank could have better resists in say energy than a PE, but then he would have to sacrifice another resist.
Anyway, I saw a Tank vs Tank duel today... I really didn't see them reduced to a "crawl", they were running at a pretty decent speed and neither taking a huge amount of damage.
tbh its only a big prob against monks, who due to not aiming and being able to run fast as hell can pwn the tanks, but then again i hate monks so im blinded by rage every time a monk so much as looks at me:p
Originally posted by ezza
tbh its only a big prob against monks, who due to not aiming and being able to run fast as hell can pwn the tanks, but then again i hate monks so im blinded by rage every time a monk so much as looks at me:p
I feel you're pain dude. Everytime I see a monk my libby calls out...
"Kill them..... you know you want to..... just squeeze the trigger slightly.... it'll all be over in a few seconds..... just kill them..." etc etc....
Btw, ezza. I'm lomming to lowtech now :)
cool, so you can be a biker chick and look the part again:)
Yes indeed. I have been using stealth less and less to see what it would be like and I don't think that it will be a problem... I just need to practice and make sure that I have a massive amount of agility. Oh and I need a Move-On. So if you have one knocking around.... :p
•Super|\|ova•
11-01-04, 02:45
I agree with the topic. 5 stars.
Mr Friendly
11-01-04, 02:54
Originally posted by ezza
umm if tanks are killing any character then the enemy of the tanks must be shit.
and prom aint asking for tanks to run at full spped with there gun out, just the speed nerf reduced a bit
most of the good tanks here on pluto are able to kill some of the best monks on here......they dont need to be faster so they can kill more
The "In the future metals will be lighter" argument doesn't work because this isn't Sci FI. This is post-apoc cyberpunk, which basically means that yes there may be some light metals, but unless you are incredibly influential and rich you will never see hair or tail of them because you are a common piece of shit just trying to make a living from nothing.
No offence. :)
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 03:07
Today's guns will go through a good amount of metal anyway.
A libby is like a fully-auto Deagle ffs.
A judge has a small fusion reactor in it. (most likey)
trigger hurt
11-01-04, 03:11
Originally posted by Filth
what a stupid idea for krist sake if you wanna be fast spec melee Have you thought how over powerd tanks would be if a tank with a cursed soul being as fast as a Monk you would run round players owning them indeffantly its a thick idea the speed with guns out is liek one the only dissadvantages you have god damn it stop moning and live with it
Idiot >:|
*cough*
ppu superglue - hardly anyone fights without the use of a ppu in their backpocket. Just have him apply some ppu superglue. Back in early retail, before the runspeed nerf, there were plenty of tanks, yep...but nowhere near as many monks that we have now.
Check the descriptions of chars again, monks are NOT supposed to be Agil nor Athletic, but my monk with all dex in AGL and 50 base spec'd in CON runs faster than most tanks...not only that, I deal more damage and with buffs, can last as long as him. Not to mention, I don't have to aim on a monk...just point and click. So why should monk have all these advantages?
NERF MONKS
It should be possible (i dont think it is) to overspec so much ath and agility that you can run fast with cannons out at the cost of losing lots of resists
so you have the option of running slow and taking LOADS of damage
or running fast and taking medium amounts of damage
Promethius
11-01-04, 03:48
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Ok, my main char aint a tank, he is a monk. I wouldnt benefit from an increase in HC tank run speed. But i think it should happen. We got some facts:
Fact a)NC combat is close ranged
Fact b)Only tank weapon viable for PVP is CS (and speedgun on occassion)
Fact c)If you pull CS out, your runspeed is reduced greatly
Fact d)If you are slow, you die easier.}
Fact e)Tank weapon aiming sucks
Now, if heavy combat was actually long ranged(as it should be IMHO) the reduction of runspeed will using such a waepon would be expected. But considering the close ranged combat that takes place in NC most of the time, and in which everyother class runs like the wind (and half the classes can stealth away), being slow means being dead. Besides tanks are supposed to use heavy weapons. They are trained to use em effectively and thus i cant see how they would be slowed to a crawl by them.
EXACTLY!!!
Personaly I think Gen-Tanks run speed with a weapon out is fine, although not with the devourer. If you look at the dev, its alot smaller than a CS and slows you down more, you should be faster with it out, not overly fast, just a bit faster than with the CS.
As for ther other all speed increase, maybe just a little bit, not to much though, cos they are big cannons, but I do feel they need to be faster not to much though just a bit.
Shadow Dancer
11-01-04, 05:25
A tank should burn himself if he runs forward with the dev too fast. :p
Originally posted by El Barto
Personaly I think Gen-Tanks run speed with a weapon out is fine, although not with the devourer. If you look at the dev, its alot smaller than a CS and slows you down more, you should be faster with it out, not overly fast, just a bit faster than with the CS.
As for ther other all speed increase, maybe just a little bit, not to much though, cos they are big cannons, but I do feel they need to be faster not to much though just a bit.
Don't you think if they upped the runspeed with a devourer out, it would gimp the cs too much? I guess maybe a tad faster might not be too bad, but any more than just a hint would make cs's unfavored.
ghandisfury
11-01-04, 05:25
Originally posted by Promethius
One of the major reasons other classes own tanks is because of the rediculous speed tanks are with there guns out. WHile monks, Pe's, Spys run fast tanks get pwned with there low speed.
Anyone else feel tanks runspeed with cannons out should be increased?
Not saying no reduced run speed but an increaase to it.
(if agree put 5 stars)
Not only no but hell no....not with all of the "nerf the PE" talk we have going on these past few weeks.
Originally posted by Judge
Being slow is tanks only real weakness. They may have less defence than a PE overall, but generally none of their resists actually have a weakness. A tank could have better resists in say energy than a PE, but then he would have to sacrifice another resist.
Anyway, I saw a Tank vs Tank duel today... I really didn't see them reduced to a "crawl", they were running at a pretty decent speed and neither taking a huge amount of damage.
A Tank could never get better energy resist than a PE because the PE has shelter, and the Tank does not. Any half decent PE setup takes energy resist with shelter above 76% which is the maximum a tank can reach.
And comparatively, PE's only weakness is low offense.
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 05:41
Exactly, if you take away either a tanks or a PEs main weakness, then you get an over powered class.
So don't reduce the runspeed 'nerf'.:)
Uhh, I was pointing out that Tanks have two. One, being second only to APUs in terms of lowest defence, when you account for stealth, and two, being slow with their weapons drawn. Both of these weaknesses being defence weaknesses which means that Tanks die fairly quickly and stand no chance when outnumbered. Whereas PEs have only an offensive weakness, which means they can still fight when outnumbered. Remember the old hybrids? Their only weakness was having low offense.
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 05:57
Tanks have strength in numbers. I don't want to bring an RP 'excuse' in here, but it does fit.
Stealth is something that.... PEs probably shouldn't have, or that the oss to offence/defence to use atm isn't high enough. Making Stealth 1 TC 85 might be a good idea....
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Tanks have strength in numbers. I don't want to bring an RP 'excuse' in here, but it does fit.
Stealth is something that.... PEs probably shouldn't have, or that the oss to offence/defence to use atm isn't high enough. Making Stealth 1 TC 85 might be a good idea....
No, it doesn't fit. There are a lot more PEs playing now than there are tanks. Also if you want to really take it to the classic RP roles then Tanks are supposed to have good defence, and spies are supposed to have better psi. Strength in numbers is not a good point.
Stealth 1 at TC 85 won't make a great deal of difference. RoG is either 83 or 84 so for RoG PEs that's only 1-2 more T-C points, which is an unnoticable reduction in speed if you take it out of agility.
Originally posted by Scikar
being second only to APUs in terms of lowest defenceDon't you forget to mention spies! ;)
To stay on topic, imo tanks dont need a runspeed increase. Random dmg and the way too high runspeed made apus way too powerful and the fact that Pes got a shitload of new items that extremely helped those. Tanks are fine.
Also if you want a fast tank, spec more Atl. Fast tanks are so much harder to beat than the ones with a great resist setup but not much speed. And if you still suck, use drugs or delete your tank!
Tanks should not be running faster than PEs with guns out. PEs would be totally pointless then. A good tank still beats me on my PE and on my spy. I`m not bad for sure but if the tank can aim, no chance. The damage a CS can deal is awesomel. And even if you cant cap aiming on it, you got a fast lock in close combat. If you dont believe me, try a capped aiming FL. And thats a TL 114 gun...
And when it comes to OP fights, everyones got ppu spells on him. And tanks are the ones who benfit the most from that. Well apart from apus cause they dont have to aim but thats another case. o_O
Originally posted by SorkZmok
Don't you forget to mention spies! ;)
I didn't forget spies. Stealth 2/3, drug to shelter, and no worries whatsoever about xray damage. Throw in some Inq armor and you come out much better off than the tank. Also remember that a rifle spy can add range to his defence on top of that.
As for the OP war argument, I don't think OP wars and the only thing that should be balanced. I don't think Tanks should be forced to rely on PPUs.
Dribble Joy
11-01-04, 06:27
I was thinking about the idea someone sugested about tanks in teams getting bonuses, rather than ppu support.
I am one of those people who believe in removing foreign shields (lets leave that for other threads though) and if it were to be implemented then something would have to be done about stealth. Untill then tanks are still far more important than PEs in OP fights.
And outside of the team environment, tanks really arent that bad, the vast majority of duels I see show great balance between the classes.
As solo pking chars, no they probably aren't as good, but each class will invariably have advantages in different fields. We can try to reduce them, distict advantages are unfair, but removing them completely is... boring, and gives people less of a reason to play a cirtain class. (which is how you should pick a class, not how 'uber' it is :rolleyes: )
Stealth unfortuneately, seems the problem as it is too, 'easy' to use. Actually making it TC 90 (more than the req on a rolh) might be fun...
We don't significantly outdamage anyone, but we are still forced to run super slow. PE's outdamage us now with their rolh, because they hit so much more often. Totally unfair. 5 stars! :(
Promethius
11-01-04, 07:48
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Exactly, if you take away either a tanks or a PEs main weakness, then you get an over powered class.
So don't reduce the runspeed 'nerf'.:)
Your just sayin all this cuz u fear the unknown. You think if this denerf hits your class will get the uber pwnage.
Honestly I'd settle if the runspeed with flamers is increased.
Also someone mentioned they wouldn't like just devourer runspeed increased just because it would make the CS unfavorable....So erm where was ur post when the Ray of God was chosen over the PE / FL? Also it doesn't matter wat people favor....*points at parashock spells*
Yeah, runspeed with flamers should be only half as bad as with cs. I mean a CS is much harder to carry than a flamer which looks, acts and is held like a rifle which has almost no run speed nerf.
Promethius
11-01-04, 07:54
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I was thinking about the idea someone sugested about tanks in teams getting bonuses, rather than ppu support.
I am one of those people who believe in removing foreign shields (lets leave that for other threads though) and if it were to be implemented then something would have to be done about stealth. Untill then tanks are still far more important than PEs in OP fights.
And outside of the team environment, tanks really arent that bad, the vast majority of duels I see show great balance between the classes.
Although it sounds interesting about team bonus's. I think it would drasticaly change how teh game is played and well i think they are waiting for DoY to do that. Even how great it sounds or would be it will never be placed into the game. Hell it took us like a year before they finaly get close to nerfing parashock spells / Freezing guns. :rolleyes:
when i get my flamer everyone will be worried :)
only the people with bad poison resist, the rest will just snipe you.
Originally posted by Flea
We don't significantly outdamage anyone, but we are still forced to run super slow. PE's outdamage us now with their rolh, because they hit so much more often. Totally unfair. 5 stars! :(
Yes you do, you do more damage than most PEs, because only a small amount use RoLH. You outdamage spies as well... so the only one who you don't outdamage is APUs, and thats how its meant to be.
If a PE uses the ROLH then his defence will not be as good as a tank's due to having to splash out on various dex giving implants rather than things like Move-On and Proto Resistor.
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