View Full Version : The current turret system is ruining all the fun
We just had a grand OP fight at Jericho on Pluto. Unfortunately, the turrets deserve the MVP award.
This is not a clan bashing post. To be honest, had we been inside the OP we would probably have done the EXACT same thing they did. I admit it. Once again, this is not about clan bashing.
The current turret system is total garbage. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to organize a simultaneous attack with 4 clans? We had about 25 people on each side of the battle so it should have been an amazing fight. In fact, we had similar numbers at a Crest Uplink fight a few weeks ago that ended the same way for the exact same reason.
The endless and instant dropping of turrets during a fight has to end. The ability to place turrets outside of the OP has to end. Worst of all is the PUSHING effect! At both fights a group of players were caught in small terrain dips between stun turrets. It has determined the outcome of the fight both times.
Nobody goes to defend their OPs. If one of your OPs is being hacked, you know that the UG spawn point will be camped with barrels and AoE weapons (another serious problem) so it is suicide to even try to defend. Instead, clans go to one of the enemy's OPs and hack that in retaliation, hoping that they will come so now they can have the advantage of turrets.
Turrets provide such an advantage that nobody wants to attack an OP. The result is dozens of players running all over the map hacking OPs without opposition.
We took 3 enemy OPs and not a single time did they come to defend. In every case they went to another OP and hacked that. Twice we went in as the attacking force and lost. I'm not saying it isn’t possible to win as the attacker, but if your main enemies refuse to attack an OP and always prefer to defend and have the turret advantage, then you will always be at a disadvantage.
The turret system has to change. LISTEN UP KK. It is ruining all the fun of fighting.
[TgR]KILLER
10-01-04, 04:03
on something i agree... even tho i was on the side that finaly won.. but there were fuckloads of turrets :/ but wasn't my call to place em.. FA just got called in for backup since we were fighting 5 clans ( well i counted 5 anyway )
I agree 100%
Imo remove stun turrets untill they can fix the terrain at all ops so they stun you (not trap you!!).
I had a great time at the fight tonight, win or loose it was good. However i did get frustrated that i was trapped by stun turrets against the ramp, i couldnt move so just had to hit out untill i died. Stun turrets need to be fixed asap, they arent stunning they're stopping. Its been said before, but stun mechanisms ruin pvp in this game.
And with the rest of the turrets put a time period for constructing so they are dropped and take say 3 mins to come online in which time they can be destroyed.
Even better just remove turrets altogether and get back to clans having to defend their ops for themselves.
I don't understand why KK hasn't fixed stun turrets. People complain repeatedly about the power of Holy Paralysis and yet the PUSHING effect of stun turrets is 10 times worse. There is no drug, no spell, no mana cost, no cast time. No mob, no weapon, no spell has the power to completely immobilize a player. It is an absolute show stopper. They need to drag their mouse over the block of code that pushes a player and press the delete key.
The entire turret system needs to be reworked but a temporary fix needs to be implemented immediately. I suggest that they remove the pushing effect and add a timer of 5 minutes or more between the placement of each turret. By no means is this an ideal solution, but I think it is something that could be done easily and quickly while a more elegant solution is developed.
Originally posted by RayBob
I don't understand why KK hasn't fixed stun turrets. People complain repeatedly about the power of Holy Paralysis and yet the PUSHING effect of stun turrets is 10 times worse.
Get a combat craft (hover/trikes can enter most ops) and shoot them that way or drive by them. Granted it doesn't stop the ones in the hackroom though.
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 04:41
I agree!
Also, what's even lamer about the stun turret is that you can get stuck sometimes. OOOO i hate that.
I hope something is done about turrets.
Lol....Rade is right!
Arch's solution to everything is "get a vehicle." :rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 04:44
He's just trying to help. :p
No not really... however it is amazing how many people fail to explore all the options of the game and instead whine because trying to actually I don't know learn how to play better is hard for some.
All crafts totally negate stun effects, therefore why not use them to counter it where you can? No?
Where will it end? Next you will have people getting pissy because they have to reload thier gun and its too much hassle to carry ammo.
The only issue I have with stun turrets is the push back. Glue is not a problem, but it should be like moving through treacle and not getting thrown back (which in some instances can get you trapped).
one other thing i hate is u can't drone where stun traps are...as all u get is ....BOOM !
:(
and yeah it would be nice to have a change
but how about something very simple
like there is a max ammount of turrets that can be set in a op atm...why not a daily total too can say they have drained the ops power supply and it needs to regen....
Well, given tonight's fight, i am now convinced. Originally, way back when, i figured that dropping turrets during a fight might not be so bad. Now i figure its a bit too much. I would rather see turrets have a 30 second to 1 minute deployment time so that they become defensive installations and not offensive installations. They would be placed in the Process Window and then drop to the ground where you stand when the timer completes; one could even argue they require Construction skill to do that.
I wont bitch about it if KK decides to leave them the way they are, and people continue to use that feature, but certainly i vote for a change.
Spook
I think that all the major OP fighting clans need to come to an agreement to stop using turrets. It doesn't matter if you were ninja hacked, or your enemy brought allies, or any other excuse. No more turrets ever...period!
If the clans cannot agree to this then I refuse to lead my clan into another OP attack. From now on we will always hack another OP belonging to the enemy. We will never fight turrets again. We will be running around the map chasing each other's tails. Does it have to come to this? Does this sound like fun? Is this the kind of game you want to play?
Most of us play Neocron because of the wonderful FPS combat system that actually requires skill. Even our enemies often invite us to NF to have fun & fair duels. Even our enemies come to fight night and have fun & fair fights. Why then do we all rely so much on turrets (not just our enemies because we do it too)? We have no problems bragging about our skills in NF but during an OP fight everything goes out the window.
I think the community needs to fix this problem itself since we can't count on KK.
i 100 % agree...
i SO hate turret spam =/
i would love to see..
- remove pushing effect or even better remove all stun turrets ... :)
- make all turrets require at least 60 secs "construction" time to plant them... not possible while in stealth
.cy
Well it seems that NDA, SS, and Dark all agree. Now we need the other major OP holding clans to agree. NO MORE TURRETS EVER. NO EXCUSES.
If a clan drops a single turret we walk away from the fight and take another one of their OPs. As long as any clan uses turrets, we won't give them the pleasure of an OP fight.
Can we all agree?
dude i doubt it will happen
Originally posted by RayBob
We took 3 enemy OPs and not a single time did they come to defend. In every case they went to another OP and hacked that. Twice we went in as the attacking force and lost. I'm not saying it isn’t possible to win as the attacker, but if your main enemies refuse to attack an OP and always prefer to defend and have the turret advantage, then you will always be at a disadvantage.
The turret system has to change. LISTEN UP KK. It is ruining all the fun of fighting.
right....
when you ppl bring 30+ and we have 20 max you can bet your sweet as we wont fight on your terms....
and at the end of the jeriko fight our spys said we faced 7 o0 diffrent city clans.....
yes turrets are hard to handle but not impossible you will just have to take em down one by one untill the deffending clan run out of money.....
Oh and if nda want to fight without turrets then fine, just dont bring allies... like we agreed.
allies = turrets
ps. tupac is the ultimate turrets whore :D hes fast, got lots of anti shock drugs and can carry a lot......
no more turrets would be fine but so would fighting even numbers and not the zerging of massive numbers of city clans and then some
and untill that happens i think we at a stand still
and regards to turrets 1 min placement would be an awsome change
not just 1 min placement, have the player have to carry a spanner and you hear *CLANG* CLANG* CLANG* as they are building. ^^
Originally posted by deac
right....
when you ppl bring 30+ and we have 20 max you can bet your sweet as we wont fight on your terms....
and at the end of the jeriko fight our spys said we faced 7 o0 diffrent city clans.....
yes turrets are hard to handle but not impossible you will just have to take em down one by one untill the deffending clan run out of money.....
Oh and if nda want to fight without turrets then fine, just dont bring allies... like we agreed.
allies = turrets
ps. tupac is the ultimate turrets whore :D hes fast, got lots of anti shock drugs and can carry a lot......
the fight was even all the clans you had had more than enough online we had 30 you had the same or more.
it was NDA, SS, BRTF, DARK V FF, PIMP, SPIRIT, TGR, EXO
As far as i know, and we only brought more allies as we were severly outnumbered when it was just SS and NDA V FF SPIRIT and PIMP. SS were about 4 or 5 and nda were about 8 at that point, the fight at the end was more than balanced numberwise imo.
Anti-Turret rocket launcher? :rolleyes:
KramerTheWeird
10-01-04, 13:59
Earlier that day it was just Amoth for PIMP running around helping, so don't act like it was our whole clan :)
Turrets should have timers. I've said this before I've said this again. Many have said this before, many will say it again. YET STILL REAKKTOR REFUSES TO LISTEN. Put package in processor. Press start. Goes from 1-100, depending on the TL of the turret, it takes up to 20 seconds. Simple as that, a great solution. Stuntraps should also not push once the enemy is shocked by them I think.
Simon, I would agree with your vehicle solution, but a number of ops are inaccessable to vehicles, and there are many choke points in ops where a vehicle can't possibily enter in. I wish vehicles could go up the ramps in uplinks, and smaller vehicles like motorcycles into the hack room of factories.
nda had 16 online FF had 15 when we started fighting why do u feel the need to bring allies in the first place ?
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 14:53
See Raybob? This is what happens when you make a post like yours. You could simply make a post JUST about turrets and use fictional examples. But, although you mention no names, you're descriptive enough so that everybody involved knows exaclty what you're talking about. And that prompts people to say "well your clan etc..." Stuff like "we just had an op war and the enemy won with turrets", blah blah. What do you expect?
Now I don't know if you do it intentionally or not, but i'm just pointing that out.
Originally posted by solling
nda had 16 online FF had 15 when we started fighting why do u feel the need to bring allies in the first place ?
Guys this isnt a clan bash thread..
Cumon stay on topic:rolleyes:
http://brtf.farcryuniverse.com/pics/stn1.jpg
http://brtf.farcryuniverse.com/pics/stn2.jpg
Here are 2 shots of people who got stuck in the almighty stun trap of doom..
This gives a new meaning to stun traps:(
This seriously needs addressing..o_O
Originally posted by Sefran
Anti-Turret rocket launcher? :rolleyes:
Actually thats a point. Does the anti-craft launchers work against turrets? Tested them on other runners and they do little to no damage to them, but Turrets? Hmmmm..
SPIRIT had one person on, one single person...... i read all about it on our forums, he said he had great fun...
yes lets keep to topic i agree with turrets placing can be overused and it need to be fixed
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 16:59
Give tanks anti-turret weaponry!
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Give tanks anti-turret weaponry!
boost in aoe is all thats needed, they work pretty good at the moment, it just takes aaaaages if they get sheltered by ppu's
and also if they are placed by yo's its pretty tricky as many people know
Originally posted by solling
nda had 16 online FF had 15 when we started fighting why do u feel the need to bring allies in the first place ?
lol, i'd like to see a screenshot from any time in the last 2 weeks that weve had 16 online. Im pretty certain in saying 12 tops over the alst 2 weeks as some of us have been partially inactive. Why are we inactive ? Because were sick of the shitty OP wars that every single one has turned into now, its either ninja because we attack with 10 ppl and you have 10 online on citycom, but miraculously 30 seconds after first hack, 50% of yer clans logged off so can cry to daddylore that we ninjad, or instead of coming and defending the OP were attacking, we play cat and mouse as you wander off to, oh, lets say jeriko for example while were hacking simmons, sound familiar to you ?
Turrets should either be fixed, or removed, Gat turrets are OK, Stun turrets are the shits that fuck up ever fight ..... Since when was a stealth spy intended to have "holy trap you in a corner and paralyze you" ?
ghandisfury
10-01-04, 17:25
Make turrets construction time 2 minutes....I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that turrets are a good thing, they are arguing (from what I see) that turrets should not be able to be placed mid-battle.
Also let's not forget that the turrets have a downside as well...they are expensive (not a big deal cause most clans have millions) and they do not alert you that they are under attack. My two fixes would be
Make turrets have a construction time of at least 1 minute, two would be better.
Make turrets alert you the second they are fired on.
Make turrets act as a weapon which means they could not be used when stealthed.
Keep stuns but remove the pushing effect they do.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
See Raybob? This is what happens when you make a post like yours. You could simply make a post JUST about turrets and use fictional examples. But, although you mention no names, you're descriptive enough so that everybody involved knows exaclty what you're talking about. And that prompts people to say "well your clan etc..." Stuff like "we just had an op war and the enemy won with turrets", blah blah. What do you expect?
Now I don't know if you do it intentionally or not, but i'm just pointing that out. Deac is the only person that is getting bent out of shape and that is his problem. I think that both sides had equal numbers and it had all the makings of a great and fair fight.
And please don't suggest that I created this thread to intentionally bash any particular clan. I made it very clear that our own clan uses the same tactics. This is a serious problem that affects everyone that participates in OP fights on every server. I am trying to see if the community can come together to solve the problem on our own without having to depend on KK.
I for one refuse to fight any more turrets until KK fixes the problem with stuns. If I see a single turret I am leaving and I will go and hack another one of their OPs. If people can't fight without turrets then I refuse to fight them. If you think someone brought too many allies, then call in your own allies. I really think it will be more fun for everyone.
Originally posted by RayBob
I am trying to see if the community can come together to solve the problem on our own without having to depend on KK.
we had a deal... no allies no turrets.... when you break it dont cry we held our part
I for one refuse to fight any more turrets until KK fixes the problem with stuns. If I see a single turret I am leaving and I will go and hack another one of their OPs. If people can't fight without turrets then I refuse to fight them. If you think someone brought too many allies, then call in your own allies. I really think it will be more fun for everyone.
good luck in hacking ops alone....
LOL... I cant stand these post ban who ever cries about it O_o
Why even when we are just FF attacking or defending we see whole pluto vs us.... SOOO pathetic no wonder we defend us like we do.
And hey they got 1000000 members hmm how many of them have multiple acc??!?!?! lol get real ffs and dont cry like babes because u do the same f**ing thing about turret push.
Seen it been there u did it. We just copy your style and when we do it you cry in TRADE and on these forums... lol
Stop bitching and stand up for a fight and try not take with you x6 clans next time.
Hate this us vs them scenario. Should be more 4 - 5 clans that fights about OPs not team A vs team B
If there where less clans that went up "hey pro city :rolleyes:"
Then the fights would be more fun. Reduce the amount of turrets and ban stuns.. hate them to O_o
FF listen... this thread is about turrets not about clan bashing so STFU and think about a fucking solution instead of flaming other clans..
THX
.Cylon...some people lack the ability to rationally debate an issue. Nothing anyone says can change that. I simply wish the mods would delete posts that add nothing to the discussion but simply complain about the poster or engage in clan bashing.
The "no allies" argument is growing old. Neocron is changing to an empire vs. empire game. Clan tags will mean less as more and larger alliances are formed.
Some clans have 15 members and some clans have 115 members. Some clans have 35 members with 20 of them very active and some cans have 120 members with only 5 active players. It doesn't matter how many clans show up to a fight but rather that each side has approximately the same numbers.
We all work hard to level our characters, build the best weapons, and hone our fighting skills. We play Neocron because it is a unique MMORPG in that it requires real player skill to PvP. And then when we finally have 2 strong armies in the same zone ready for an epic battle, we let turrets determine the outcome of the fight. Am I the only person that sees the insanity?
Every clan on every server needs to refuse to attack an OP that is being defended with turrets until KK reworks the turret system. Let's use our skill to fight and not a poorly implemented element of the game.
Originally posted by RayBob
I simply wish the mods would delete posts that add nothing to the discussion but simply complain about the poster or engage in clan bashing.It's your responsibility (in a general sense) to write posts that don't break the rules - moderators are not here to spend their lives cleaning up after people.
No more flames on this thread please.
N
havent read whole thread so forgive me if this sounds a bit stupid or if someones already said it..
the problem with removing turrets will mean that any clan grepping in to defend will INSTANTLY be barreled, aoe'd caught in synch and spammed to death, removing them is probably not a good idea as they provide breathing space. my suggestion would be to make them take 30 seconds to place, no problem when setting up but unlikely to be doable in battle, and maybe let the owning clan have the choice to spawn EITHER underground or at the GR, this way when every attacking lamer is camping underground they now have to camp both gr's, splitting their forces and perhaps giving the defenders a chance to get in and defend.
i think the defending clan should have an advantage, and this is thier advantage...how hard is it to blow up turrets
as for the underground thing, you should ALWAYS have a few turrets in the underground so you can gather there when hte op is attacked and rush up
i agree
stun turrets destroy the fun in opfights
The problem isn't the turrets, as has been said many times in this thread. Please read before you post people!
The problem is being able to drop turrets in the middle of a fight, totally ruining any advantage the attackers have gained. You can outmanuever, outskill, outthink your opponent at an op fight. Force him into a corner, destroy all his turrets and suddenly a stealther drops a stun in the middle of your group.
BAM
You've lost the fight.
I can see one reason for Stun turrets pushing ... if properly placed in certain Hack Rooms, they can keep Stealthy Hacker Spies outside the Hack Room and away from the Hack Station ... until those turrets are destroyed, which of course alerts the owning clan that the Op is being threatened.
If stuns do *not* push then i can easilly get into the Hack Room (together with some buddies) and start hacking. The stun from the Stun Turret won't really stop us, just hinder us a bit; the stun only becomes useful when there is someone around to attack you while you *are* stunned.
Just an FYI about an implication of removing the push factor. It is up to you all to decide how useful that aspect is, or is not.
Spook
Edit: alternatively, instead of pushing, the Stun Turrets could send an alert message to the clan whenever it detects an appropriate enemy within its field of awareness ... with some sort of timed filter so it doesnt spam the clan's channel.
Another Edit: Or do remove the push effect. And maybe add a new type of Sentry Turret that simply issues the kind of warning suggested above.
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