View Full Version : Keep this in mind when talking about PE balance
Alot of you that dont play PEs say alot of things about the
proficiency of PEs, and thats perfectly fine. If people werent
allowed to talk about classes that they dont play then alot of
issues would never be brought to surface, however, I just want
to enlighten you on a few points.
Often when people talk about PEs being overpowered they bring
up alot of examples, for example: Defence alot greater than
tanks, damage output almost as high as tanks with certain
weapons, longass stealth, the ability to do tradeskills.
Now heres the newsflash. A PE dont do all of those things as
once. When you see a PE that can take amazing damage you are
probably looking at a lowtech spec PE which have pretty much
crap for damage output, and probablycant even stealth, if he is
using rifles then he wont have a tradeskill either. He might also
be chucking drugs for Psi shield and eating psi boosters,
something which isnt really viable in prolonged combat.
When you see a PE that does amazing damage with a RoLH or
whatever he will either be able to take LESS damage than a tank
when using conventional weapons, or he has zero or negative
poison resists which is a complete killer since devourer came into
play. If he wants to cap damage on RoLH he CANNOT have a
tradeskill, or use stealth 2, and probably use whiteflash
constantly because he needs a distance 3.
When you see a PE with tradeskills or stealth 2, he has sacrificed
alot in the terms of staying power and damage output. Realise
that every amazing attribute that you have ever met in a PE,
tradeskills, stealth 2, capped RoLH, 500 hps and taking less
damage than a tank, etc etc, is not a list of things that ALL PES
CAN DO AT THE SAME TIME. You can do one of these things, and
then you will be mediocre with the others. Let me give you some
very real examples of it:
Blacksun/Lib/PE setup, PP resistor and Moveon, can use VK
instead of PA which is very interesting now that the dev is
around. Can get good defence, use stealth 1, one low int
tradeskill if pistol user, but has pretty shitty damage output. Can
peak defence for a short time when using drugs, this is a big
fucking hassle and can backfire in a terrible fashion, but
sometimes it lets you do wonders.
RoG/Judge setup, trades one defensive chip away for a little more
damage output than defence than the setup above. Can use
stealth 2 but then the damage output will be even worse than
the above template, and so will the defence. Drugs same as
above.
RoLH setup, no defencive chips, alot of "shitty" chips instead.
Defence worse than a tanks if you want to cover all resists. Or
decent "regular" resists and decent HPs but absolutely no poison
resist. Stealth 2 and/or tradeskills gimps damage output down to
the level of the setup above. Drugs same as above.
Now, also bear in mind that in OP wars or any situation where
there is a PPU around to buff people, the PEs edge which is the
ability to shelter itself becomes nullified, and all other classes
either come up to the level of defence that the PE has or goes
past it in a big way (tanks), which means that PEs are not at all
as efficient as other classes in these scenarios, being a self-
sufficient, jack of all trades but master of none doesnt pay off in
group fights when its all about peaking at your given skill. There
is no class which is worse than PEs in large group fights.
Now, to round off, Im not saying "oh boo poor PEs" but this is
what its like. PEs have alot of great advantages which makes
them fun to play but they are not all that. If you havent played a
PE and get pissed about how great this class seem then think
about this, the person that you are getting pissed at probably
have a great weakness for you to exploit, or cant do certain
things that you take for granted that PEs can do. When you get
pissed about his great defence you might not notice his crappy
offence and vice versa. And we do, sadly, still stink in OP wars.
hehe, ur really scared that ur PE will be nerfed now are u?
im just messing, i agree, people tend to think that all PEs have the same defense, and that all PEs stealths around like freaking chickens......
Very well said. Nothing to add really.
Originally posted by Furion
hehe, ur really scared that ur PE will be nerfed now are u?
Considering what Ive said about PE balance in other threads the
answer should to the question is simple. I _strongly_ doubt we
will see a PE nerf comming from KK, because the need is
definately not great enough for a nerf. However I just feel that
some people are not looking at the whole picture when they talk
about PEs, theres more to it than "ubar defence ubar offence
ubar stealth ubar tradeskills" that some people makes it sound
like. Im just trying to help those people sound less ignorant,
thats all.
Originally posted by Furion
hehe, ur really scared that ur PE will be nerfed now are u?
im just messing, i agree, people tend to think that all PEs have the same defense, and that all PEs stealths around like freaking chickens......
only noob PE's stealth unless insanely outnumbered
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 00:55
Sex @ teh Rade.
I have a ppr/moveon Judge setup, but I am high on redflash permanently. I need it for the dmg on my judge (no Dist3, and only 100 WEP, I poke mc5 lvl.) and the horrid lack of agl.
I could use a exp reflex booster and not use redflash, but speed would be teh sucks, might as well have the atl and lower WEP malus from the reflex 4, and the uber speed from the droogie.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Sex @ teh Rade.
I have a ppr/moveon Judge setup, but I am high on redflash permanently. I need it for the dmg on my judge (no Dist3, and only 100 WEP, I poke mc5 lvl.) and the horrid lack of agl.
I could use a exp reflex booster and not use redflash, but speed would be teh sucks, might as well have the atl and lower WEP malus from the reflex 4, and the uber speed from the droogie.
you can make a ppr/moveon Judge setup that has respectable speed and caps dmg on judge, as well as gets 153/min i think freq.
but you need SA, PA and you cant have poking :p
Amen Rade, Amen. That pretty much sums up my feelings.
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 00:59
SA, SF, PPR, MOVEON.
174 pc, 83tc, 78agl, 83 atl, 100 WEP, 96imp, 36 psu.
judge rof: 160rpm
:D
Originally posted by g0rt
only noob PE's stealth unless insanely outnumbered
and theres an insane amout of those now, making the rest look bad.... atleast on pluto
I liked the sound of the plasma pistol... I just didn't get on with it in PvP... so I went with Libby.
Heh, I only know two other PEs on pluto apart from me that don't wear PA.
I'm a pure lowtech rc PE, yeah my resists are... for lack of a better word are excellent (even against poison), but my offense is... medicore at best, termi damage is only so so, and since the DoT is bugged.... I don't tradeskill... I don't stealth, PEs don't need stealth imo, suck it up, people aren't used to dieing any more....
Can't wait til duder sees this thread <3 :p
I probably stealth more than anyone, if you want to call me a
noob then feel free.
Maybe it comes from playing stealth assassin in too many
mmorpgs but not being stealthed makes me feel nekkid.
I dont want to hurt the PE.. I know they suck in OP wars because when you have a PPU glued to your ass a PE aint worth much for me as a APU. But I still think that stealth should be SPY only because it was basic a thing for the spies with low con to escape.
To touch the other things just gives me the creep why overkill a class that is ok. They maybe are hard to kill 1on1 but hey big deal I have killed some 1on1 and damn good PE:s like Kramer when he was ultra active =)
Still he pwnd me twice as many times but I was paper cut monk :rolleyes:
Thing is they need to get buffed up in 1on1 to be dangerous and that takes about 5 - 10 s. If you meet me in the wastland and need to stand still for 5 - 10 s you are dead :wtf: :D
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 01:23
It is a seriously amateur PE that isn't permanently buffed outside a safezone.
Originally posted by Furion
and theres an insane amout of those now, making the rest look bad.... atleast on pluto
on saturn too
i dont even keep a stealth tool on my hightech pe...i never find that i need it
i would rather fight like a man if im outnumbered, and take 1 or 2 of them down before I go down, then stealth away like a coward
Dribble Joy
10-01-04, 01:28
Me too, i use my stealth to scout around MB and creap up on snipers (:D) but I take my fights to the death.
LIES LIES LIES LIES ITS ALL LIES, PES ARE OVERPOWERED NONE OF THIS IS TRUE DONT LISTEN TO THIS NERF PES THEY HAVE GOD-LIKE RESISTS AND HEAL AND SHELTER AND ALL PES CAN STEALTH EVEN IF THEY DONT HAVE ANY TC AND LIB THAT DOES LOADS OF DAMAGE IN PVM !!!!!
RADE IS JUST SAYING THIS SO IT WONT SEEM AS PES HAVE IT EASY UNLIKE MONKS, THEY ARE ALL LIKE, ITS SO HARD BEING A MONK AND SETTING UP A MONK IS SO HARD AND TRICKY AND EVERYONE WANTS TO PUSH THE MONK DOWN, CAPIATLIST CONFORMISTS I HATE YOU ALL, YOU PES DONT KNOW PAIN LIKE MONKS DO, I THINK ILL GO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE LISTENING TO LINKIN PARK - IM ABOUT TO BREAK
ANIMU IS LIFE, U BAKA (THATz japaneese fur jerk) N U DONT UNDERSTAND ME
Music: Linkin Park
Mood: KANAWARU ^____^
AND I WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO EVERYONE THAT HAS A BIRTHDAY TODAY, TODDLES
shine duder pe does not need a nerf he needs to be boosted and should do cs dmg with every weapon
P.S. i'm just kidding :p
Originally posted by Lathuc
shine duder pe does not need a nerf he needs to be boosted and should do cs dmg with every weapon
P.S. i'm just kidding :p
happy birthday
ALSO, A PE USING A CAPPED ROLH SHOOTING A TANK DOES DO CS DMG AFTER AWHILE, SEE WHAT IM SAYING, NERF PES, THEY SHYOULDNT BE ABLE TO KILL THINGS OR ESCAPE CERTAIN DEATH WHEN YOU WANT TO SHOOT SOMETHING STUPID....LOLOLOL GET IT? I AM IMPLYING PES ARE STUPID WHORES, LOLOLOL I THINK I JUST WET MYSELF FROM LAUGHING SO HARD OH SHI MY MOM IS COMMING OHNOS
nonamebrandeggs
10-01-04, 01:48
Nerf PE's dex attainable without drugs.
Andronicus
10-01-04, 01:52
Very nice thread - well said.
Originally posted by Keiron
Amen Rade, Amen. That pretty much sums up my feelings.
What he said :D
And damn man! Im so fuckin glad ur goin FLUX. Ill be more than happy to share my setup with ya :D
I think rade is right, and a ppu buffed tank versus a ppu buffed pe is not even comparable. I think stealth should be taken away from a pe. The main advantage that a PE should have IMO is to make up for its lack of damage and resists, it should be very difficult to hit. lower other's speed or raise pe's speed. The idea behind a pe from my perspective is that it is a very fast and dodgy character that wears its character down. Hell, maybe even make their pa give permanent resists to any freeze spell or gun.
Fully agree Rade, a while a go I chose to be pure lowtech non PA wearing
PA since i wanted better resist with the (then) upcomming devourer and i
must say i have no regrets in choosing this setup, sure i have pretty
low dmg output if you compare it to a RoLH but my much, much,
much better defence to compensates for that in a big way
I dont use stealth basicly since i think it should be spy only
(ok maybe not, some ppl seem to enjoy it to much) but 75%
of all PE's (if not more) dont use stealth, they abuse it
Whenever i'm standing in pepper1 and see a blue cloud, and a few
seconds later i get shot, then instantly a blue cloud again, it makes me
wish i was a GM and could instantly kill the guy and delete all his chars
and ban his account forever... Not that he/she is a threat to me but it's
so fucking annoying and so fucking lame i just want to /set kill_self 1 for the hell of it
But however, i do agree with your post 100%
I have played a PE as my main char for over a year now and I must say that the cry
for a PE nerf is plain stupid... actually i dont care if they nerf us, i will still find a way
to manage (as will all the "true" PE players) but it's plain stupid
PE's are suppose to have either good dmg output and descent defence
or a good defence but a much less dmg output wich imo
is totaly logic
The thing is, people just cant deal with dying anymore... If you kill them
you h4x... or your class should be nerfed, so that you cant kill them
but what they dont realise is if they cry for every class to be nerfed
all the time eventually the class that they play will be the strongest
one and all the other people that got nerfed will cry for a nerf of that class...
I'm just rambling and am drunk atm so whatever...
//Radium
Originally posted by bounty
I think rade is right, and a ppu buffed tank versus a ppu buffed pe is not even comparable. I think stealth should be taken away from a pe. The main advantage that a PE should have IMO is to make up for its lack of damage and resists, it should be very difficult to hit. lower other's speed or raise pe's speed. The idea behind a pe from my perspective is that it is a very fast and dodgy character that wears its character down. Hell, maybe even make their pa give permanent resists to any freeze spell or gun.
I wouldnt mind PEs getting stripped of stealth and shelter and
having some class only uber speed being their defence, but I
think it might be pretty hard to balance and might be awfully
boring to fight against.
Hey radium you still play that spy on uranus? Ive been in uppsala
over the holidays so havent been able to play much at all, Ima
pick it up again now tho :D
Heya rade, i've also been away for the holydays, was logged on my spy
latest yesterday, but it kinda got boring since i dont really know
anybody on URanus :D (that one never gets old)
But i will be playing him alot more as soon as I am done with this
lame course i'm taking now :P
Think i'm gonna log him now for a while (still haven't lvled since the
last time you and me were on)
//Rad
pe's are fine.
but they shouldnt have stealth.
just a pity most of the people posting on this thread are pe's.
As someone who has been playing a PE since day one, I feel qualified to say: What Rade said.
The only thing I'd like to add is that people sometimes confuse excellent players with an overpowered class. I'm sure this has been true of tanks and monks, but if you come up against a PE who wipes the floor with you and it seems impossible to hit them, thats the player and the setup, not the class. An inexperienced or crap (such as myself) PvPer using the same character would just plain loose.
Shoe..... other foot.
Suck it up and take your nerf like a man!
Originally posted by Archeus
Shoe..... other foot.
Suck it up and take your nerf like a man!
hehe, sorry arch but I think we are more likely to see a PPU nerf
than a PE nerf.
*shrug*
I've lived through..
Hybrid nerf
Shields nerf
Damage boost nerf
para nerf (and another coming)
Spells nerf (and another coming)
PA nerf
and I'm still playing my character
and your getting in a tizzy because there might be an offchance your character you worked so hard on might get nerfed too.. like I said suck it up and take it like a man.
Doesn't matter what argument you make, the rerollers have spoken for your class.
As most people say, there is nothing wrong with PEs having high defence. There is nothing wrong with other PEs using RoLH. The only issue is when you throw stealth on top. PEs don't need stealth, and don't deserve stealth.
"getting in a tizzy", call it what you want, I just want people who
dont actually play PEs to know what they are talking about. If
PEs needs to be nerfed then so be it, Ive been a PE since the day
Pluto came online and it wont change. And this BS about you
having "lived through nerfs", am I supposed to feel sorry for that
you have always played a stupidly overpowered and slowly over
a years time have been adjusted downward? Sorry, no sympathy
here. Fact is this, for the first time in Neocrons history PEs are
something else than the worst class in the game, and all monks
and tanks hate it. PEs still have alot of weaknesses and there
are alot of times where you just want to throw your PE out the
window because of how much better other classes do things, but
when you get a nice PvP session due to your versatility it makes
up for it.
**edit: So sci, a PE should be a worse version of the tank like
they always have been is that it? Because thats exactly what a
PE without stealth is.
Originally posted by Rade
**edit: So sci, a PE should be a worse version of the tank like
they always have been is that it? Because thats exactly what a
PE without stealth is.
More defence than tank, less offense. Alternatively, near tank offense, but relying on speed for defence. Far better solo than tank, but less overall gain than tank in a team. Better chance of killing a PPU solo thanks to DB, 52/min RoF on heal, and potential to use shelter for ultimate noob buffing. Better against stealthing spy due to DB. How is that worse than a Tank?
What Im getting at is this, maybe stealth should be a spy only
thing, but then you have to give PEs something else, because
they do not deserve to be a sucky version of tanks, PEs have had
that role for such a long time and it wasnt funny I can assure you
that. Being equal to tanks in duels doesnt but worse everywhere
else does not justify a class.
Read again. Better solo hunter. Better anti-PPU, even solo. Better anti-stealthing spy. So, Tank is good vs Tank, and PE, while PE is good vs monk, spy, and also better against mobs. What's wrong with that?
Originally posted by Rade
"getting in a tizzy", call it what you want, I just want people who
dont actually play PEs to know what they are talking about.
Again what I find funny about the argument. Your coming up with the exact same arguments. Replace PE with PPU and hey presto your repeating what Monks said months ago.
am I supposed to feel sorry for that
you have always played a stupidly overpowered and slowly over
a years time have been adjusted downward? Sorry, no sympathy
here.
Wouldn't expect any considering your one of the people who bleated on and on. Well your going to start know what it feels like.
Fact is this, for the first time in Neocrons history PEs are
something else than the worst class in the game, and all monks
and tanks hate it.
Man that is some ego. Hardly hate it, to be honest I couldn't give a toss I'm just finding all this 'OMG PLEASE DONT NERF ME' all deja vu and somewhat humerous. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
More defence than tank, less offense. Alternatively, near tank offense, but relying on speed for defence. Far better solo than tank, but less overall gain than tank in a team. Better chance of killing a PPU solo thanks to DB, 52/min RoF on heal, and potential to use shelter for ultimate noob buffing. Better against stealthing spy due to DB. How is that worse than a Tank?
Noob buffing and healing is obviously a glitch in the code and you
cant honestly see this as one of the class virtues?
If you add up the defence and the offence then the tank is pretty
far ahead, the speed is what the PE has going for them. Then
add the fact that a PE has to use his buffs to get close to the
tank, and then take into account a ppu buffing. Also with the way
OP wars/group battles, healing and ppus work now its shitloads
better having slower runspeed and more damage output in group
battles. Far better solo than tank? Thats a product of stealth if
you talk about PvP. Both leveling melee and H-C tanks I find them
easier to level than PEs due to the higher damage output. The
heal is slower but its not like its killing me. Tagging a stealther is
as easily done with a tl3 tank heal as it is with a DB.
Originally posted by Archeus
Man that is some ego. Hardly hate it, to be honest I couldn't give a toss I'm just finding all this 'OMG PLEASE DONT NERF ME' all deja vu and somewhat humerous. :rolleyes:
Ok, Im going to say it once again, because its obviously hard to
understand. If PEs are overpowered and need to be nerfed then
so be it, they will be eventually. I just dont see it comming. This
thread was brought forward due to alot of comments in other
thread where the people sounds like they think that every PE has
stealth 2, 500 HPs, 150 in every resist, psi shield, hack poke drive
repair. THATS my point. Im just trying to point out to some people
that PEs, while currently a great class and fun to play, still have
some weaknesses and cant do ALL the things that people think
they can. Also, just as always, they are the worst class to bring
to a OP war, which is a bit sad.
rade noob buffing isnt a glitch see the GM responses to the thread in my sig.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
rade noob buffing isnt a glitch see the GM responses to the thread in my sig.
I know its not an exploit, but it is a glitch in the code just like..
sanctums and normal spells stacking or any other borderline
exploit thats been around in the game. It wouldnt be surprising if
it got fixed if PPUs got balanced. Of course they cant change it
the way things are now.
**edit: oh ffs stop posting and let me go to sleep. ;)
NURF TEH PES! TEHRE MAE BEE NO NEED TO DOO IT, BUTT A PE WUNCE KILTE ME!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111
PEs are the suck on average, only the best players rise above the difficulty of the class. I made a RoG pe on Pluto, and i'm embarassingly bad at it. In 9 months i havent won a duel... More recently i've been working harder with Drugs and Armor and resists.. but theres still an element of multitasking that confuses my tanklike brain.... midfight heal? 6 buffs to cast at the beginning of a fight? no, sir.. back to my tank. aim, shoot, aim, shoot.. shit! stealther *punch guard*
Originally posted by Rieper
shoot.. shit! stealther *punch guard*
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks I needed that.
Damn now my stomach hurts :D
I've had enough. Even if PEs are only better because of a glitch, that is irrelevant, hybrids were overpowered because of a 'glitch in the code', that didn't make the argument carry any less weight. I can see though that I'm not going to get anywhere as long as everything I say is ignored, so let's just agree to disagree, and then I can get some sleep.
[TgR]KILLER
10-01-04, 04:36
never used drugs or stealth.. so those don't count for me.. just my lowtech rifler and a pure tradeskill PE.. just like rade said.. PE"s can do ALOT and be good in ALOT but NO way they can do it all @ once..
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 04:37
I think pes are fine except for stealth. They don't deserve to be able to escape battle so easily.
Originally posted by Scikar
I've had enough. Even if PEs are only better because of a glitch, that is irrelevant, hybrids were overpowered because of a 'glitch in the code', that didn't make the argument carry any less weight. I can see though that I'm not going to get anywhere as long as everything I say is ignored, so let's just agree to disagree, and then I can get some sleep.
So your whole argument was based on noob buffing? rite...
The shelter stacking was a glitch, since it became a problem it
was fixed. With the current situation of overpowered PPUs noob
buffing isnt a big problem, Id rather that they fixed PPUs,
removed noob buffing and put in proper tools to do similar things.
Afterall they are not weapons, they are beneficial spells.
Originally posted by Rade
So your whole argument was based on noob buffing? rite...
The shelter stacking was a glitch, since it became a problem it
was fixed. With the current situation of overpowered PPUs noob
buffing isnt a big problem, Id rather that they fixed PPUs,
removed noob buffing and put in proper tools to do similar things.
Afterall they are not weapons, they are beneficial spells.
No, hence the two words: 'Even if.'
I'm not going to repeat the areas where PEs are better than tanks. I'll leave it for you to find in between stealthing in-game.
Yeah, its probably me thats completely wrong and PEs are better
than Tanks in every way. Thats why all these tanks are running
around in OP wars crying about PEs owning the scene and really
good tanks are being beaten by noob PEs left and right.
Currently PEs have stealth, which makes them good at guerilla
warfare, thats PEs strong point right now. They are equal to
Tanks and Apus in duels, spies im not gonna get started on again
because people will just start crying, they are worse in all group
activities but they are the best in solo guerilla warfare. Is that
such a bad thing?
OK you couldn't be arsed to re-read my other post so here it is again.
Non stealther PE is stronger against monks and spies, while tank is stronger against tanks and PEs. Stealth currently has nothing to do with guerilla warfare. It's not used for ambushing, it's used for running away.
People watch a skilled PE own 1v1 and then they want to be cool and they try to emulate. Before they nerfed hybrids, everyone was a hybrid. Now the powerhungry cookie-cutters need something else to goto so they think PE's can do the job. Like many have said you can copy the setup but you can't copy the skill. I've seen a lot of poorly used PE's in duels. If they get the nerf, so what? It won't hurt the players who took a gimped class and made them glorious anyways. Now that hybrids are back in town, that is much more a situation where a copied setup will rule all 1v1. Good thing they're already on the chopping block.
Originally posted by Scikar
OK you couldn't be arsed to re-read my other post so here it is again.
Non stealther PE is stronger against monks and spies, while tank is stronger against tanks and PEs. Stealth currently has nothing to do with guerilla warfare. It's not used for ambushing, it's used for running away.
Non stealther PE is better than a Tank at taking out a PPU one on
one, but that only works on crappy or low level PPUs. When in a
group (which you are 99.95% of the times when you actually get
it into your head that you are going to try to actually kill a PPU) a
Tank is better than a PE due to the higher damage output. Tanks
kill Spies easier than PEs, AE damage does work sometimes, heal
tags them just as good as DB, and it cant be drugged away. CS
hits you while in stealth and Tanks have a better chance of killing
them between stealths.
Yes I re-read your post, even tho I was pretty sure I understood
it perfectly well the first time, and yeah, I did.
Basically, as I said before, your opinions are different to mine, and mine aren't going to change any time soon. So let's just agree to disagree and I'm going to get some sleep.
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 05:03
tanks are better against ppus than pes?
:lol:
Does it matter? It's not like any of them can realisticly do anything to the ppu without an apu. Unless the ppu is a noob.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
tanks are better against ppus than pes?
:lol:
Does it matter? It's not like any of them can realisticly do anything to the ppu without an apu. Unless the ppu is a noob.
Well, what we are discussing is this: a single PE vs a PPU can
shelter sanctum, noob heal, db and if the PPU is a noob he will
die. A tank cant kill even a noob PPU even one on one. Altho,
when we are talking team fights, youd rather have a Tank
shooting the antibuffed PPU than a PE. Tanks outshines PEs in
group fights in every single way.
I just think stealth should remove heal shelter and deflector when used :). just goin to repeat it agin and agin . :)
be a better defence then a offence since u cant attack as good with shelter or deflector off.
PEs are fine some think they shouldnt be able to use RoLH but they have to gimp to use it.
The only things I see wrong with PEs is that they are currently better constructers then spies are and that stealth should be made spy only.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
PEs are fine some think they shouldnt be able to use RoLH but they have to gimp to use it.
The only things I see wrong with PEs is that they are currently better constructers then spies are and that stealth should be made spy only.
Rofl, youre saying PEs need a tradeskill nerfing?
I agree with the simple fix of just making the stealth spy only or higher INT req, but it seems no one wants that and wants some crazy ass other crazy ass suggestion, when such a simple tweak could be done, OH WELL.
Eh Nerf PEs because they can construct?
You only need 150 in CST, and with a cst glove youll have enough dex and int to be decent enough to make some weapons...im guessing youre one of those who think having 200+ cst is going to boost cst further?
I would LOVE for my PE to have his stealth taken away. Sorry Rade, but the more i think about it, the more i think it makes sense.
everything else you have said tho, spot on.
Originally posted by Blunt
People watch a skilled PE own 1v1 and then they want to be cool and they try to emulate. Before they nerfed hybrids, everyone was a hybrid. Now the powerhungry cookie-cutters need something else to goto so they think PE's can do the job. Like many have said you can copy the setup but you can't copy the skill. I've seen a lot of poorly used PE's in duels. If they get the nerf, so what? It won't hurt the players who took a gimped class and made them glorious anyways.
Sorry if this ends up being a double post.
I havent seen u post on these forums much Blunt, but seriously,
A-FUCKING-MEN :)
Rade when you say stuff like this it makes you look like a total nib so stop it. Your crusade to make PE look like there weak and frail and in dire need of stealth is ridiculos. I mean you were trying to sell that if PE didn't have stealth you may as well go spy cause it would be the same thing.
Bottom line is your taking your some what respectable name and makeing yourself look like a one day old nib.
No reason for a char with such high defence and decent dmg out put to need to go into stealth like a pussy.
Psycho_Soldier
10-01-04, 09:57
Originally posted by Rade
A tank cant kill even a noob PPU even one on one.
:lol: Tell that to all the PPU's I have killed since I got my Devourer.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Rade when you say stuff like this it makes you look like a total nib so stop it. Your crusade to make PE look like there weak and frail and in dire need of stealth is ridiculos. I mean you were trying to sell that if PE didn't have stealth you may as well go spy cause it would be the same thing.
Bottom line is your taking your some what respectable name and makeing yourself look like a one day old nib.
No reason for a char with such high defence and decent dmg out put to need to go into stealth like a pussy.
Completely Agreed.
Originally posted by Psycho_Soldier
:lol: Tell that to all the PPU's I have killed since I got my Devourer.
Make that tanks cant kill a GOOD PPU with a devourer.
A well setup PPU should be able to outheal at least 2 devourers, get poison resist nuff said.
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 11:53
Originally posted by KimmyG
Rade when you say stuff like this it makes you look like a total nib so stop it. Your crusade to make PE look like there weak and frail and in dire need of stealth is ridiculos. I mean you were trying to sell that if PE didn't have stealth you may as well go spy cause it would be the same thing.
Bottom line is your taking your some what respectable name and makeing yourself look like a one day old nib.
I don't agree about the nib part, but I do agree that Rade is going overboard with the whole "poor pes, their the worst class in neocron" stuff. It makes him look dishonest and like he'll twist any possible arguement fact in his favor.
A more honest outlook would get more ppl to listen IMO.
**edit: Realised Ive already said everything I need to say to
kimmy in this thread.
**edit again: hey SD, why dont you go make a PE and try it for
yourself. Same for Kimmy for that matter. <- My new strategy to
teach non-PEs the weaknesses.
Up the Teck Class Requirement on the stealth tool so Private Eyes can still use it if they are willing to compramise even more damage.
But leave everything else the hell alone, it's perfect as it is. Either Tank damage or Tank defence with a private eye, never both. Some people are idiots and think that pe's can do both like raid said but they can't.
Yes I play 2 private eyes.
Shadow Dancer
10-01-04, 12:55
Originally posted by Rade
**edit: Realised Ive already said everything I need to say to
kimmy in this thread.
**edit again: hey SD, why dont you go make a PE and try it for
yourself. Same for Kimmy for that matter. <- My new strategy to
teach non-PEs the weaknesses.
nah, I stand by what I say. To me any class that has been the worst can be considered the worst is the spy.
Originally posted by Rade
**edit again: hey SD, why dont you go make a PE and try it for
yourself. Same for Kimmy for that matter. <- My new strategy to
teach non-PEs the weaknesses.
I do have a PE and he doesn't need stealth
Originally posted by KimmyG
I do have a PE and he doesn't need stealth
Then use him in OP wars from now on, or any other team activity
for that matter. Thats the only area Ive said that the PEs are
lacking in. The thing is that I dont feel that duels is a good way to
determine wether a class is good or not, because real PvP is
about so much else. And if you play a PE then you also know
about the points I tried to make with my initial post here, so I
dont see the problem.
Originally posted by Duder
Rofl, youre saying PEs need a tradeskill nerfing?
I agree with the simple fix of just making the stealth spy only or higher INT req, but it seems no one wants that and wants some crazy ass other crazy ass suggestion, when such a simple tweak could be done, OH WELL.
Eh Nerf PEs because they can construct?
You only need 150 in CST, and with a cst glove youll have enough dex and int to be decent enough to make some weapons...im guessing youre one of those who think having 200+ cst is going to boost cst further?
So you think that construct PEs not only get better stats then capped constructor spies but also seem to get better slot chances?
Construct PEs are gimps... all they can do is cst and repair/drive... I think the fact that they are equal csters to spies is a fair tradeoff....
So you think that construct PEs not only get better stats then capped constructor spies but also seem to get better slot chances?
Lol where the hell did Duder say that? She said that there was no need to go past 150 skill and that both PEs and Spys can get to that level. Though PEs have to sacrifice more in PvP ability.
Originally posted by Possessed
Construct PEs are gimps... all they can do is cst and repair/drive... I think the fact that they are equal csters to spies is a fair tradeoff....
I made a setup here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gibsnag/constpe.JPG) which is a lowtech pistol PE with construction. With the const glove he has 155 const with 103 dex and 76 int. His offence is ok, but his defence is shit... Also I'm not sure how good const he would be with only 76 int. Also he has to use drugs to first activate the const chip 3.
I'm actually considering making this setup sometime... it looks well fun.
Originally posted by Possessed
Construct PEs are gimps... all they can do is cst and repair/drive... I think the fact that they are equal csters to spies is a fair tradeoff....
My clan has a heavy combat PE which actually work well as he can drive and gun revellers and then just repoke to construct and if he bothered with a marine he could drive and gun a rhino and they are strong these days.
Cst Spies can use a Rolh, Stealth 1 or maybe 2, Cst, drive a tank, although he cant gun a tank i dont think the spy is missing anything from not being able to do that, a tank gun is as sad as trying to eat live squirrels.
shodanjr_gr
10-01-04, 21:33
Originally posted by evs
pe's are fine.
but they shouldnt have stealth.
just a pity most of the people posting on this thread are pe's.
I second that.
Remove stealth and PEs are fixed.
Psycho Killa
10-01-04, 21:47
Originally posted by Psycho_Soldier
:lol: Tell that to all the PPU's I have killed since I got my Devourer.
Heavy poisin belt, hazard 3, filter 1 > Devourer.
Guys feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but Im pretty sure Rade has stated many times before that in the grand scheme of things, stealth is not the issue. He has said he wouldn't mind losing stealth IF PEs got something else in return.
Your right, PEs do NOT need stealth, BUT, very little sets us apart from the other classes. We are JoaTs (or supposed to be), and using the lowest level of stealth supports our role. If we lose stealth, then we have very little that sets us apart. I love the PE class and will stay with is regardless of what happens to it, but it would be nice to just get some thing of our own.
If we are are truly a mid ground class, then let us keep stealth, but if we are a class of our own, then give us something unique.
Plus or minus I think thats what point is attempting to be made.
Originally posted by Rade
Then use him in OP wars from now on, or any other team activity
for that matter. Thats the only area Ive said that the PEs are
lacking in. The thing is that I dont feel that duels is a good way to
determine wether a class is good or not, because real PvP is
about so much else. And if you play a PE then you also know
about the points I tried to make with my initial post here, so I
dont see the problem.
I got near capped PPU and tank wich im better at than on me PE I find my PE more useful for solo runs and duels. However we have several PE in the clan that do very well at op wars. Especial the prc user always nice to have some PRC.
If he wants to cap damage on RoLH he CANNOT have a
tradeskill, or use stealth 2, and probably use whiteflash
constantly because he needs a distance 3.
I capped the dmg on a rolh AND had a tradeskill.
What was your AGL? and did you gimp yourself resist wise (i.e. no PP or moveon)?
Thank you Rade! Finaly, someone thinking before they say something!:)
I'll give you my example: I am a Rifle PE that pokes MC5. I have like 109 WL after Rifle Boost 1. See, we all trade something.
Originally posted by Jest
Guys feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but Im pretty sure Rade has stated many times before that in the grand scheme of things, stealth is not the issue. He has said he wouldn't mind losing stealth IF PEs got something else in return.
Your right, PEs do NOT need stealth, BUT, very little sets us apart from the other classes. We are JoaTs (or supposed to be), and using the lowest level of stealth supports our role. If we lose stealth, then we have very little that sets us apart. I love the PE class and will stay with is regardless of what happens to it, but it would be nice to just get some thing of our own.
If we are are truly a mid ground class, then let us keep stealth, but if we are a class of our own, then give us something unique.
Plus or minus I think thats what point is attempting to be made.
If you were truly a JoaT class then you wouldn't be able to cap a Lib. As Shad says all the time, PEs are only JoaTs when it suits them. If PEs really want something of their own, then surely it would make sense for tanks and spies to want to keep their weapons, armor and imps for themselves and not see PEs running around with them?
Originally posted by Scikar
If you were truly a JoaT class then you wouldn't be able to cap a Lib. As Shad says all the time, PEs are only JoaTs when it suits them. If PEs really want something of their own, then surely it would make sense for tanks and spies to want to keep their weapons, armor and imps for themselves and not see PEs running around with them?
That argument is flawed. We can use and cap the low TL items of various weapon types such as Libby, Pain Easer, Paw of Tiger and Tangent Plasma Cannon but cannot cap the higher end stuff like disruptors. Thus we are Joats, we use some medium armour, some low TL weaponary, some Low TL spells and a Low TL stealth tool.
Originally posted by Judge
That argument is flawed. We can use and cap the low TL items of various weapon types such as Libby, Pain Easer, Paw of Tiger and Tangent Plasma Cannon but cannot cap the higher end stuff like disruptors. Thus we are Joats, we use some medium armour, some low TL weaponary, some Low TL spells and a Low TL stealth tool.
So why do you have the second best defence in the game, and stealth on top?
Because we have mid level armour and low level buffs. Which just equates to having the second best defence in the game. We do have the worst offence though.
So just because we are joats you want us to basically be tanks... just not as good. Hmmm?
Originally posted by Jest
Guys feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but Im pretty sure Rade has stated many times before that in the grand scheme of things, stealth is not the issue. He has said he wouldn't mind losing stealth IF PEs got something else in return.
Your right, PEs do NOT need stealth, BUT, very little sets us apart from the other classes. We are JoaTs (or supposed to be), and using the lowest level of stealth supports our role. If we lose stealth, then we have very little that sets us apart. I love the PE class and will stay with is regardless of what happens to it, but it would be nice to just get some thing of our own.
If we are are truly a mid ground class, then let us keep stealth, but if we are a class of our own, then give us something unique.
Plus or minus I think thats what point is attempting to be made.
Actually your not you just dumber less dexterous but stronger spies and stealth wasnt a PE toy it was a spy one to make up for their lack of resists con str armour and shelter which can only be used on combat spies if they drug.KK just made it too low tl and I see some PEs druggin to stealth 2 which is better then my construct spy can do and still hop eto cap high end weapons while RoLh pes can cap them and use stealth 2.
This sound wrong to anybody else?
How about you leave the "Stealth is a spy toy not PE's" decision to KK hmmm?
Secondly "This sound wrong to anybody else?". Not really because we are dumber than spies, so we can't use as high a stealth version as spies potentially can. Just because you tradeskiller spy has a shit setup doesn't mean that you should punish PEs for it. Also if PEs are DRUGGING up for stealth 2 then they are spending fuckloads of money on keeping taht drug addiction going, and may well be fighting with drugflash.
Originally posted by Judge
How about you leave the "Stealth is a spy toy not PE's" decision to KK hmmm?
Secondly "This sound wrong to anybody else?". Not really because we are dumber than spies, so we can't use as high a stealth version as spies potentially can. Just because you tradeskiller spy has a shit setup doesn't mean that you should punish PEs for it. Also if PEs are DRUGGING up for stealth 2 then they are spending fuckloads of money on keeping taht drug addiction going, and may well be fighting with drugflash.
Actually because pistols need fuck all weapon lore I dont have to gimp my setup to any real extent other then a small lack of runspeed and no shelter.And incase you hadnt noticed when your capped money is nothing so your point of spending shitloads on drugs is irrelevent.And yes they can use a potentially higher version with a 120tc point sink which makes it harder to cap weapon and the last 20 dex on spies dont amount to much of an advantage over PEs considering how easy it is to get imps to make up the equivelent of these levels and how easy it is to drug the rest to the best spy weapons.
If stealth was meant to be a PE toy then they could use them as they obvious arent.
PEs are Joats... they use a little bit of each other classes power. Tanks armour, Monks spells and Spy's weapons. This also means that they get the low level toys of the other classes such as Stealth 1. Now if I wanted to I could drug up or implant up to use a higher TL spell or armour, would that sound bad to you? No? Well why is it different here?
Also not everyone spends all their lives hunting or making APCs to get infinite money. I have got just over a mil atm and have never had over 1.5 mil on any character.
Actually I dont either I just have a high level barter that sell c10s etc and buys my stuff and even then most people just get a shit load of money from selling rares or just hunting and levelling all the time.
And tbh with PEs constructing atleast as well as spies and being able to use all spies weapons and toys and then having with a good setup the same abiltiy to resist damage as a tank kinda looks like those classes are kinda useless.
Oh wait just nearly everyone has their primary characters as PEs and monks already.
Werent you crying about people making PEs a few days ago?And then when people say they should be made less attractive to class hoppers your one of the first to jump down their throats?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
And tbh with PEs constructing atleast as well as spies and being able to use all spies weapons and toys and then having with a good setup the same abiltiy to resist damage as a tank kinda looks like those classes are kinda useless.
Firstly. Combat spies can construct at the same time. Consructing PEs cannot take part in any sort of meaningful combat, with that much skill spent on constructing they are gimped to fuck, their resists will be worse than a tanks and they will have the worst offence in the game, oh and they won't be able to stealth either.
"use all spies weapons and toys"
Hmmm let me think, can a PE use stealth 3 or obliterator? Can they CAP or use in PvP a disruptor or FL? No, not unless you are up to your eyeballs on drugs. And when you start including drugs, tanks can stealth. So why the fuck should they get stealth hmmm? If we are counting drugs that is.
Also why the fuck is the tank useless? Do you even know how much more damage a tank does than a PE? PEs may be faster and have better SPELLS to resist with but that counts for shit at an op war where everyone is on holy buffs and parashocked into the ground. So in an OP war situation, Tanks have better Offence, Defence and it doesn't matter that they are slow... so PEs are kinda useless eh?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Oh wait just nearly everyone has their primary characters as PEs and monks already.
How do you know? Where did you get that statistic from... or did you just pull it out your arse?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Werent you crying about people making PEs a few days ago?And then when people say they should be made less attractive to class hoppers your one of the first to jump down their throats?
I was telling people who think that they can be uber like with monks on a PE to get a clue, because the PE is the hardest class to setup, and the second hardest to play... first hardest probably being the spy. People come over to the PE class, find out that they have no PE skills then start stealthing round everywhere and some of the tanks who can't kill a PE with stealth 1 get all upity that someone doesn't drop dead when they point their CS at them and start crying nerf on the forums.
I don't want my main class nerfed thank you very much, of course I'm going to jump down your throat.
Lets see a constructing PE could probably cap a libby and just change imps for constructing, not 100% sure on this but libby isnt hard to cap and you can get all the weapon lore you need from imps and still have the same resists if not better then a normal PE.
Ive seen PEs cap everything but RoF on FLs and probably on a disrupter but the guy didnt have one at the time and dont think he does now either.
I conceed the point on obliterator and stealth 3 because the int reqs are probably too high but cant remember them off of the top of my head.
PEs are piss easy to setup especially now with PA to add better resists and to give boosts to both rc or pc and a dex boost.
Con is easier then a tanks to figure out and much much easier then a monks or spies to figure around.
Only thing I can see bad about PEs is that rifle PEs are becoming slightly obsolete with all the faster running and aiming pistoleers about and I never liked pistol PEs only liked playing rifles.
The only reason is there are so many little stealthers about is that they are shit and run into situations and start getting killing then stealth about thinking they are cool, and unless stealth is removed your going to have little gimps like that pissing about.
Originally posted by Judge
How do you know? Where did you get that statistic from... or did you just pull it out your arse?.
Use you eyes in plaza or the wastes and other the tradeskills most are PEs or monk but if you choose to be blind be so because you either are or just being argumentative.
Originally posted by Judge
I don't want my main class nerfed thank you very much, of course I'm going to jump down your throat.
I didnt cry nerf I said basically remove stealth make them not as good as spies at tradeskills.
If anything I think they should just be the way they were before stealth and PA were introduced and thats not nerfing and tbh I think KK are planning a nerf on PEs anyway because these days they are becoming more and more powerful.
there shouldn't be a nerf, just Tanks should have upped runspeed or resists should be moer powerful or we should have increased health over other classes. like at 80 const we get 100 more hp, at 90 100 more hp, at 100 we get 100 more hp for instance. also spys need to deal more damage with their sniper rifles, and they should be the only class who can stealth, PEs shouldn't be able to stealth imo.
Im glad that some people manage to see through all the BS and
understand what Im trying to say, even following my reasoning
through several threads, didnt know that was possible on these
boards. Thanks Jest :D
well ive not read all the posts(read though when orginally posted but decided not to post)but..
ive gone against a lot of PEs, and ive never found any of them over powered.
only thing i would have a bitch about is the stealth and PEs, fucking annoying when the PE pussies out of death stealths comes back attacks repeat untill enemy gets bored, or dies cos of PEs superior healing rate(not complaining about that btw just the stealth issue)
but beyond that, i dont feel PEs need a nerfage.
i made a thread asking why suddenly people are asking for PEs to be nerfed but sadly my thread got mistaken for a nerf the PE thread
only imblanced class is the monk class which i shall not go into here
The only thing that I feel needs to be changed on a PE ios the time you can turn stealth back on.
Ok, just thought I'd put my 2 cents in...
I made a setup a few weeks ago that lets me use FL/Disruptor with only white flash, and Silent Hunter without drugs. I get 155% damage and 200% aiming on a capped silent hunter. I have 68 agil and 70 ath, BUFFED. My resists are worse than a spy's, the only thing making me last longer is shelter, but even that won't matter at an op war. Damage/aiming on FL and disruptor is of course slightly worse than my silent hunter. Oh, and every single int point is in WEP to get at least this damage/aiming. I can use stealth 2 without drugs, but only buffed with rc1. Is this setup unfair?
NO. I die in like.. 5-6 full CS bursts, 5-6 HLs, about the same for SH shots. Just today, I was at an op war, harassing a clan with my sniper. Yes, I stealth, but who wouldn't, 2 apus, ppu, tank vs. only me. In the end, an apu found me and 4 shotted me with HL (shelter just ran out), 2 of which hit me AFTER I stealthed.
Jack of all trades... but able to specialize in certain areas. That's why I like PEs. I set mine up to be a really gimpy Spy without having to reroll. I've tried setting up a spy, and she can do everything my PE does, but better, except for the con/shelter of course, which is made up for by using an obliterator....................
So the fact that my PE is a crappy spy, only she can't tradeskill at all, means that I don't deserve stealth?
A pe doesnt NEED stealth, as many know back when stealth came out, I didnt use it for a very long time because I didnt wanna skill TC. Later I did it, because I cared less about winning every duel and op wars and more about pking. if your pking alone or with a very small group with no ppu, stealthing is very helpful. I recently lommed my pistol pe back to no tc. I like the extra gil and poison rsit it gave me, and it also allowed me to use a hover, but theres some situations where I could take out 3 tanks at once if I had my stealth but now cant.
TBH im not really sure on weather or not pes should have stealth. I dont wanna start a fight but its a simple fact that most of the people posting "I have a pe and i dont stealth" are always in a large group... back when I didnt stealth I always had a ppu, only fought in situations I knew id win, or dueled. so of course if ou are in a team you dont need it... but if you are alone its helpful.
I think that stealth overall needs a nerf... A longer delay between stealthings. This way stealthing spies and pes would be easier to kill... Im sick of the excuse "stfu vet maybe they dont wanna be pked" well, tough shit... they have the initial stealth giving them 10 sec- 60 sec to get away... if they cant escape in that time, why shouldnt I get my kill? nerf stealth across the board... then everything will be fine.
Shadow Dancer
11-01-04, 05:09
Originally posted by Judge
I have got just over a mil atm and have never had over 1.5 mil on any character.
Tell that to the people who want a WIPE with doy because they assume every character is rich and has 50+ rares.
:rolleyes:@the people who want a wipe
Originally posted by Judge
And when you start including drugs, tanks can stealth.
Tanks can't get 60 int with drugs.
Originally posted by Scikar
If you were truly a JoaT class then you wouldn't be able to cap a Lib. As Shad says all the time, PEs are only JoaTs when it suits them. If PEs really want something of their own, then surely it would make sense for tanks and spies to want to keep their weapons, armor and imps for themselves and not see PEs running around with them? So lets see, what weapon would YOU think the highest weapon we should cap can be. Well we've already established we shouldnt be able to cap the Libby. In fact lets just go ahead and say PEs should be able to use high tech weapons period. After all high tech certainly doesnt sound like a joat kind of weapon. Hmmmm....mini rocketlauncher, well I certainly wouldnt want a bunch of joats running around with AoE damage. Ah yes, we have a winner, the Tangent Automatic Pistol. That will be our new weapon. And a joat who pokes AND caps his damage on his gun, I won't hear of it. They should not be given any full tradeskill, perhaps enough hack for warbots, and certainly no left over points to develop Psi. They should be able to only use Dur 1 armor, have no PA of their own of course, and lets go ahead and give rid of our con as well. Since PEs have uber defense then we can go ahead and slice that right in half. Throw them a couple of extra Con points over a spy. And you can take the one thing that is the cause of all the PEs troubles, the Shelter, because when it all comes down to it thats the basis for every PE nerf thread.
Or hell I think I'm trying to hard, maybe we can just be given 60 in every skill. After all the skill points of 60-80-60-65-35 certainly don't sound like any sort of middle ground class that I would know.
Please, by all means share with us what YOU think a joat should be. Tbh I hate the classification of being a joat and it makes me cringe every time I use it. It makes us some sort of half breed that if excels at any one single thing, all the bitchers immediately take it to the boards. Which is the exact reason this thread was started in the first place. Yes we can excel in many things, but not at once. You can take the JOAT classification and stuff it, because quite frankly we are the jack of all shit.
I will GLADLY lose stealth for the PE class if they actually make us a class of our own. We are not spies, we are not tanks, we are not monks, and we are not the combination of all three, we are our own class, a Private Eye, not a damn Yo's vendor.
And if you think I'm some how begging for more because I think the PE class is underdevloped, I am not. I love the PE, which is why I play it. I am a low tech pistol PE who does not even use stealth. Take stealth, take the joat classification, and give me my own class, and give me back my FREEEEDDOOOMMM!!!! ..... Err uh, sorry gotta little carried away there. :eek:
Shadow Dancer
11-01-04, 05:20
I also think the joat classification is lame.
And pes should be considered as a complete class in itself, if you know what I mean.
In my opinion PEs simply aren't JoaTs at all any more. I'm perfectly happy for PEs to cap Libbys, use high tech rares, and have good defence. The only thing I have a problem with is stealthing PEs, along with the "BUT WE'RE JOATS!!!!oneoneone" argument which is used by PEs to argue just about anything, not just stealth, but that H-C PEs should be able to use CS, and PEs should get level 2 buffs and blessed shelter, etc. PEs were maybe intended to be JOATs but they most certainly are not. They're still happy to argue that they are though, when it suits them (i.e. when they're leeching something off another class which they don't need, e.g. stealth).
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Tanks can't get 60 int with drugs.
Yeah they can but its one gimped setup. There was a thread
about it a while back.
**edit: altho I didnt read through that thread very carefully,
maybe I mistunderstood something because it do sound bloody
unlikely.
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah they can but its one gimped setup. There was a thread
about it a while back.
**edit: altho I didnt read through that thread very carefully,
maybe I mistunderstood something because it do sound bloody
unlikely. you have to gimp yourself first with intel imps then drug up like a crackhead
Well atm I'm just using the Joats argument because whenever PEs want something of their own people say we are Joats and don't deserve something of our own, but then when something like stealth comes along people say that we aren't Joats because we obviously specialise meaning that we shouldn't have stealth.
I accuse alot of this forum for using the Joats argument against us when they feel like it.
As Jest has said, take away stealth from us. Then OFFICALLY make us our own class AND give us some Toys. You tanks have got your new rares, Spies have got their stealths and Monks got some new rares a whilst back so as an independant class we want our own Toys bitch.
Originally posted by Judge
Well atm I'm just using the Joats argument
JOATAMON not JOAT. Big difference. Give the PE Stealth 1, that will stay with the JOATAMON loadout.
What more do PE's need look at there selection.
Lib
Blacksun
Judge
Wyatt Earp
Pain easier
Terminator
They can use these very well
Then you can go
Rolh and some of the other high tech weps if you please
Tanks got
CS
Moon
Dev
Rare Wave
Mal
Doom
Really tanks only have 4 weapons that are worth useing
Pe's have a large selection of pistols and rifles to use. What more toys do you need? AS for the gimped crafters you go that route you will have to accept that you wont be decent in combat
Eh?
The Judge is a more of a "for shit & giggles" kind of weapon, where you just mess about...its usefullness? Hah
The Blacksun is the poormans ROLH and the only store bought weapon a PE can actually use that can make people want to heal or use a medkit after awhile.
The Wyatt Earp...hahahhaah
The PainEaser (Maybe the Terminator) and Lib are the only things a lowtech PE can use in pvp unless you like running around with a tangent gatling rifle and smg224.
PE dont have an AOE except pistols, and how viable is the rocket pistol? Maybe if the person is afk and has SI it might hurt.
The Pistols have 2 really good ones, ROLH and Lib
Rifles...same, ROG and PE
OH LOOK at this!!!
Tanks has a CS and Dev, THATS 2 VIABLE WEAPONS, and guess what? Tanks dont need to choose from a SELECTION OF WORTHLESS CRAP LIKE THE WYATT EARP AND HEALING LIGHT, the rare wave weapon might be good but no one are using them yet, same with the terminator.
Balance ISNT REALLY ABOUT WHO HAS THE MOST AMMOUNT OF SHITTY WEAPONS OR THE CLASS WHO HAS THE BIG GUNS.
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah they can but its one gimped setup. There was a thread
about it a while back.
**edit: altho I didnt read through that thread very carefully,
maybe I mistunderstood something because it do sound bloody
unlikely.
It can be done. Uber Gimpy, but it can be done.
http://sharpspark.com/~keiron/StealthTank.JPG
Originally posted by Duder
Eh?
The Judge is a more of a "for shit & giggles" kind of weapon, where you just mess about...its usefullness? Hah
I aughtta slap you silly
The judge is, in my opinion, the best pvp pistol in the game atm and with pa3/SA you can make a PE cap the judge and use moveon/resistor...
Dribble Joy
12-01-04, 08:39
Originally posted by g0rt
I aughtta slap you silly
The judge is, in my opinion, the best pvp pistol in the game atm and with pa3/SA you can make a PE cap the judge and use moveon/resistor...
What's more, it doesn't use up sta, I have all of 8 end, and only need to carry stam boosters if it's a REALLY long fight.
Thought that setup does require redflash to be in anyway effective, you can get 100 dex with a exp reflex, but agl/atl is shite, better to use reflex4 and redflash to 104.
[edit] I was going to say something but I'm not going to start a flaming session
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