View Full Version : Death of the Hybrid?
and here was me thinking the PE was going to get it.. so what is everyone rerolling to this time?
Originally posted by Archeus
and here was me thinking the PE was going to get it.. so what is everyone rerolling to this time?
Eh? I miss something ?
Edit---
From test server patch...
- Replaced the INT penalty on the PSI Kamikaze chip and replaced it with a -40 PPU penalty.
- Added Duranium Boots. (Light/Medium/Heavy)
- Reduced effect of freeze spells.
- Adjusted/fixed some PA bonuses.
- Fixed the requirements on armed vehicles.
- Increased APU/PPU requirements on most spells to keep hybrid monks from using the high techlevel spells.
- Reduced the APU/PPU penalty (aka. Hybrid nerf) to 5%.
- Reduced damage dealt by faction guards and their hitpoints.
- Replaced an aggressive guard in Pepper Park 2 by a non-aggressive one.
- Changed guard placement in Pepper Park 1 to prevent exploiting.
- Redesigned Outzone Jail level. This area will remain closed off until we patch it in retail!
- Fixed techlevels of faction items.
- Added apartment keys that are linked to a specific building (i.e. Luxus Plaza Apartment Skycenter, Big Pepper Park Apartment Pussy Club etc).
- Gunners in tanks no longer lose life when there is a heal effect on them. For now the heal has no effect, but we're working on a fix that will make the heals work in vehicles.
seems to me like they just made hybrids available to the regular runner, and maybe theyre balanced too.....
Originally posted by GT_Rince
- Replaced the INT penalty on the PSI Kamikaze chip and replaced it with a -40 PPU penalty.
- Increased APU/PPU requirements on most spells to keep hybrid monks from using the high techlevel spells.
- Reduced the APU/PPU penalty (aka. Hybrid nerf) to 5%.
Removes the holy spells from the Hybrid by the looks of things.
I view hybrids as this.
a ppu that sacrifices some of his power for more powerful attacks.
I really see nothing wrong with them. Who knows, this may prove to be a SEX kind of patch.
Very interesting.... I'm liking the appartment thing. That sounds cool :)
Shadow Dancer
09-01-04, 18:00
There goes all those people who said KK didn't want hybrids.
:rolleyes:
Honestly.
Hybrids really should be......
A passive psi use monk that sacrifices some of his power for greater attack strength.
and visa versa
Makes sense.
Id like to make a hybrid on the test server now.....
Originally posted by element[]
whens patch coming? :p
Originally posted by element[]
whens patch coming? :p
u mean retail? cuz it prolly wont hit retail for a while, since its just implemented on test server....
shouldn't that read "rebirth of the hybrid"?
as to:
- Replaced the INT penalty on the PSI Kamikaze chip and replaced it with a -40 PPU penalty.
this makes perfect sense - the kamikazis themselves are meant to have lowered defense, that was the whole point of them. hence it made little sense that their chips allowed monks to have uber defense.
......I asked for spells to have increased requirements before the big hybrid nerf...so now they basically remove the hybrid nerf and increase the spells...ahh, thats ok, although if they are fucking around with MST I demand a psi point release.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
- Reduced the APU/PPU penalty (aka. Hybrid nerf) to 5%.
Now that I like..... We can have hybrids without the Kami chip and DS. Thank god, haha fuck you elitists.
:D
Originally posted by Genty
......I asked for spells to have increased requirements before the big hybrid nerf...so now they basically remove the hybrid nerf and increase the spells...ahh, thats ok, although if they are fucking around with MST I demand a psi point release. think its just the apu/ppu part of it
ask the mods to rename the thread to "Rise of the Hybrid" instead :p
Originally posted by Furion
ask the mods to rename the thread to "Rise of the Hybrid" instead :p
Not totally - if I read correctly, you will be able to make a decent(ish) hybrid up to a certain point, but I am not sure Holy spells will be within their reach. I could be wrong...
Did ANY of you ppl even test those changes? Or KNOW what exactly else they are besides that 5% nerf change?
*kicks hybrids in the nuts*
DIE FILTHY NO SKILL HAXORS!11
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Not totally - if I read correctly, you will be able to make a decent(ish) hybrid up to a certain point, but I am not sure Holy spells will be within their reach. I could be wrong...
u dont need holy spells man, i made a crappy hybrid without DS/kami, but using blessed spells and holy energy halo, i could still take 15+ CS bursts...
Everyone needs to read the discussion thread in the test server forum.
Reqs are being raised on ALL spells TL 35 and up. So yes, even the PEs are getting a minor nerf on this because it now takes more PPU to cast BR3 and Haz1, etc.
Hybrids are having the % nerf reduced, but every single spell they rely on will take more of an investment into PPU and APU. Kami is no longer an option for Hybrids AT ALL. More points in PPU and APU = far fewer points in PPW.
So no access to the truly high level spells, and be prepared to chew up a LOT of Psi Boosters, even with DS/Core.
Pure monks get a small nerf as well, in that now a TL 113 PPU spell will take 160 in PPU to be able to cast it. Now... that spell will function just like it did before if youwould have had a 160 in PPU though.
That means all spells basically, when you are FIRST able to cast them, will be more effective than they were before when you could first cast them (since this time you will have a much higher amount in the primary casting skill).
Originally posted by Furion
u dont need holy spells man, i made a crappy hybrid without DS/kami, but using blessed spells and holy energy halo, i could still take 15+ CS bursts...
H4X :D
So this means that they are able to use Blessed spells to better effect? Screw that - i'm rolling - lol
Originally posted by GT_Rince
So this means that they are able to use Blessed spells to better effect?
unless the new reqs are put too high then yes.....
Screw that - i'm rolling - lol
and i just recapped from my last lomming spree :D
MjukisDjur
09-01-04, 19:57
u dont need holy spells man, i made a crappy hybrid without DS/kami, but using blessed spells and holy energy halo, i could still take 15+ CS bursts...
now this I would like to see and copy to my own totally killed monk that I lomed down to hybrid last week just to test it out. He is soooo crappy there is not words for it. I cannot get any ppw at all with 113 ppu/115 apu/83 mst. I so want a DS. And the damn glove that never shows up on retail
Dribble Joy
09-01-04, 20:06
Originally posted by Strych9
Reqs are being raised on ALL spells TL 35 and up. So yes, even the PEs are getting a minor nerf on this because it now takes more PPU to cast BR3 and Haz1, etc.
TL 35 will remain unchanged so shelter will stay as it is.
MST will not be affected.
BR3 now requires 80 ppu leaving 9 ppw, only pistol PEs with psu can cast it (and possibly, gimped rifle PEs)
Haz/heat1 is ppu 87, PEs simply cannot use it anymore.
Raising the reqs on spells will hurt us pures aswell :/ It will be even harder for me to cap my ppu spells now. To make up for that we will need more slots. With spells over 95 tl it was hard enough to get slots, now we'll be throwin away more money just to get the slots we need. Which we will then lose when we die.
I'm not impressed :/
been playing on test server and its practically impossible to get a good setup wirh blessed shelter without a DS, the ppu reqs are just too high for it, so it'll have to be a PE style hyb for all us non mc5 farming 'got it all' people, i've also found that its impossible to use level 2 buffs and holy energy halo with half decent Psi pool untill about level 92 psi o_O
this sucks imo, but test servers for tweaking and im gonna post it over on the feedback servers
sucks imo as it makes 'uber' hybrids still a class for the elite
Shadow Dancer
09-01-04, 20:24
Raising apu/ppu reqs does nothing to change the damage percent we get on our spells car.
The flippoint and all that for spells are based on the TL of the item, and the TLs haven't changed.
Originally posted by Carinth
Raising the reqs on spells will hurt us pures aswell :/ It will be even harder for me to cap my ppu spells now. To make up for that we will need more slots. With spells over 95 tl it was hard enough to get slots, now we'll be throwin away more money just to get the slots we need. Which we will then lose when we die.
I'm not impressed :/
no, to quote Callash:
The percentage of the spells doesn't change at all. You will only be required to spend more points to use them. If a Spell took 90 APU as minimal requirement and now takes 120 APU, it will be as good as it was before when you had 120 APU. It's just the requirement.
they've done a good job of changing hybs without affecting pures this time
edit: didnt say anything about pe's
Dribble Joy
09-01-04, 20:52
*hands Kal a set of Titan armour
Pures are affected just like Hybrids actually.
It is the intent that a pure PPU use Holy Heal and not a Hybrid. Fine. But by raising the PPU reqs for Holy Heal, a pure PPU now must wait longer in the process of levelling to get it, and a pure now has fewer options on how to spec their pure.
At least before I can decide if I wanted to put extra points into PPU or PPW... now my choice in the matter is lessened.
I am not saying this is a big deal, or worthy of being altered. Just saying that as a pure PPU, I not too excited about HAVING to put that many points into PPU, and that early in my progression.
PPW vs PPU may not sound huge, but take into account that PPUs (talking pure ones) can ONLY level via teams. Its a lot easier to support a group of players with high mana and slighty less effective spells than to have less mana and slightly more effective spells. PPUs climbing through the levels need the high mana (and add the PPU later). Now they will have to devote more resources or imps to just boosting PPU.
look on the bright side, now you can realisticly have some ppu to help level up with, cast heals etc as an apu and have some light damage spells to help level up a little faster and have some offence as a ppu
Not wanting to gloat, but selling my apu kami chip 2 days ago for an obscene set of loot is looking a wiser decision by the minute.
Ummmm I see. I evidently have been playing NC under a different understanding of how your damage% on a given spell is calculated. I was under the impression that APU/PPU only give significant boost to damage% when you're skilled above the reqs of the spell. For a ppu 95 spell, I would receive some bonus to damage if I had 95 ppu. For each point over 95 that I have skilled, it dramaticly increases the boost to damage. This was to encourage pures and discourage hybrids, it was done quite a while ago. A hybrid would only skill up to the req of a spell, or maybe a little bit above. Whereas a pure could skill well above that spell's req and gain a much higher damage%. With that in mind, raising the reqs would lower the damage% I'm capable of unless I skilled even more ppu to compensate.
If I'm reading right, the way it really is soly based off of the TL? Hmm, that amounts to the same thing, except changing the reqs won't modify anything. I love NC's hidden formulas :/
Anyway, this evidently won't hurt me as a capped char. But it will hurt ppu's leveling up, as Strych9 posted. There are certain points along the way that mark big improvements in a ppu's ability. Each point usualy has a bunch of new spells suddenly available to the ppu. That or the spell that is made available is one of a ppu's trademark necessary spells. For example when a ppu finnaly gets ressurect, or when the ppu reaches blessed shelter. The biggest one is for TL 95 spells, there is a ton of really handy spells suddenly available. To increase the reqs will mean a ppu has to wait longer before they're useful.
Originally posted by Genty
ahh, thats ok, although if they are fucking around with MST I demand a psi point release. You don't have to worry, it's just the APU and PPU requirements which have gone up, all the rest is exactly the same.
Originally posted by Carinth
If I'm reading right, the way it really is soly based off of the TL? Hmm, that amounts to the same thing, except changing the reqs won't modify anything. I love NC's hidden formulas :/I always thought it was based on TL, apparently I was right! :p
Anyway, to quote myself from the test server discussion thread:
Originally posted by J. Folsom
I've been trying out some setups, anyway, if you try some unconventional stuff, you can easily make a Hybrid without a DS or Kami who can use all PPU spells up to Holy Damage Boost, as well as Energy Beam. While still getting 278 in their Psi Pool. Even counting the simpler shelter/deflector you're using then, you can still manage to get 95% defence in every type of damage except poison, pierce and force (with Pierce Being ~87%, force ~91%, no poison defense at all).
Interestingly enough, that setup which I now consider reasonable is actually what my non-overpowered hybrid used to use back before the original hybrid nerfs.
As a hint to what implants you should be using, just realize that sometimes a negative to a skill which gives a bonus to another more expensive skill can be the most beneficial implant of all.
Edit: As I'm certain people are going to say "But that's not as Hybrid is supposed to be!", I've tested it out in practice, I can do one on one fight without cover with Warbot Titans with that setup, which is pretty balanced. If I make use of cover (Mostly so I can retreat to heal) I can kill any mobs as long as there is cover available.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
- Replaced the INT penalty on the PSI Kamikaze chip and replaced it with a -40 PPU penalty.
Hehehe... talk about getting rid of that kami at the right time. I sold mine yesterday (along with a 5 slot Holy Lightning and a mediocre Pain Easer) for a SA :D
Only thing about the higher req on spells for pures are the mid ones that cant afford more PPW then they can now. Dunno how much it dmg it does to them but who cares I am capped in PSI :p
KramerTheWeird
09-01-04, 23:36
read test notes more carefully before crying nerf.
WHEN WILL THEY STOP FUCKING WITH MONKS FFS STOP MAKING ME FUCKING LOM AND FIND A NEW FUCKIN SETUP EVERY MONTH GOD DAMNIT
MjukisDjur
09-01-04, 23:57
Lafiel, but this might actually turn out good for us that dont have a ds and kami... Lets wait and see what happens and then we put them bats in the trunk and drive to germania :P
im sick of this elite talk... if you cant do the work to get mc5 chips... then tough luck, suffer. I did it, and I did most of it while either in college or having a 40 hour a week job... why cant you? I hope hybreds cant use very good spells... do you have ANY idea of the HELL non hybreds were put through fighting hybreds in the old days? Have any idea what its like to know no matter how good you are, or how well you built your char, you CANNOT beat a hybred? Hybreds are pure evil, I hope kk keeps them down.
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