View Full Version : Why does Heavy Combat PA have to suck?
I considered making a detailed post comparing the crappy PA that HC tanks have to the PA of other classes, but decided on a simpler solution.
You can disagree as to the reasons, but if you look on any server you will see that there are very very few droners. It is a fact. Why? Droning has significant enough problems to make it undesirable to most players.
If you look around, you will notice that the overwhelming majority of APUs, PPUs, PEs, Spies, and melee tanks use their PA. They love it. The advantages are generally considered to outweigh the disadvantages.
Now look at the HC tanks. Maybe 30% or so use PA? It’s as simple as that. A HC tank is already penalized with the worst aim and stamina consumtion of any class (even after the stamina improvement from the last patch). Add to that the biggest speed penalty for drawing their weapon. And now their armor is going to take away even more speed, forcing them to over-spec in athletics at the expense of their resists. The one category that is supposed to give tanks their advantage—100 CON—is being hit hard by the very armor that was designed to protect them. Perhaps if the PA added 15-20 to all resists could such a hit to athletics be justified. But in it’s present condition, the majority of the tanks refuse to use it. Just look around. It’s a fact.
haven't worn PA for about 9 or 10 months, only wore it previously when i was leveling and needed the hc/str bonus.
Tank PA sucks simple as that
Originally posted by stigmata
Tank PA sucks simple as that Yep. I also have a spy, and when they released the PA a few months ago it was amazing. I don't think there is a single rifle spy that doesn't love their PA.
HC tanks need their PA revamped. They need a rare gat cannon and a boost to their AoE weapons. :D
Why does Heavy Combat PA have to suck?
Because Tanks are still paying for there sins of TANK-O-CRON.
8|
Atm h-c PA is abit like the doom beamer though, highest level gun, and a 8 tl lower weapon is doing more damage than it. And it supposed to be the last thing you ever need in this game? :p
Well, I usually wear my H-C PA3.
I like the extra H-C boost of PA3, not so much the STR, but it's a bonus nonetheless. The - 25 to ATH doesn't hit me too hard because I have 112 AGL, more with a Spy 3, so my runspeed is almost the same, maybe a little slower.
The one thing I have to agree on is that fucking retarded -6 CON thing. WTF was the point of taking away the - DEX and making it - CON. I'm sorry, doesn't PA protect us more!? I can see everything else is logical, Extra H-C, STR, - ATH because it's bulky, but - CON? o_O
Here are some solutions to make H-C PA worth it:
First off, take away the - 2,4,6,8 CON and make it -2,4,6,8 DEX again
Make it so wearing the higher end PA (3 and 4) possible to actually cap a Tank's aiming! Damage is easily capped, but when it comes to aiming, handling, range, etc. a Tank can never cap there weapon. Hell, I have 220 HC ay 125 STR with an artifact capped CS and I still don't cap everything. That's absurd.
Make PA4 viable. IMO, PA1 should be the mid-level Tank PA. PA2 should be the close-to-cap PA, PA3 should be capped PA, and PA4 should be 125 STR and should only be worn by fully capped and implanted Tank.
Put colors back in. It's boring seeing everyone wear grey PA. Make PA1 grey, PA2 black, PA3 yellow, and PA4 red.
Make a differ design. We had this Tank PA for like 2 years, lol. Maybe sometype of PA v.2 from TT would be cool, and have differ models for male and female Tanks.
And as Ray said, boosting AoE is another must. AoE is something that Tanks are special for. No other class can use a rare AoE weapons, yet they aren't that great. Make it so they have a small barrel effect for awhile, and increase damage by a lot! I hate how AoE damage is % based, so the lower HP you have the lower the damage. A rare gatlin would also be the pwn, but would probably needs lot of testing since the RoF would be insane and couldn't be too powerful.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
Well, I usually wear my H-C PA3.
I like the extra H-C boost of PA3, not so much the STR, but it's a bonus nonetheless. The - 25 to ATH doesn't hit me too hard because I have 112 AGL, more with a Spy 3, so my runspeed is almost the same, maybe a little slower.
The one thing I have to agree on is that fucking retarded -6 CON thing. WTF was the point of taking away the - DEX and making it - CON. I'm sorry, doesn't PA protect us more!? I can see everything else is logical, Extra H-C, STR, - ATH because it's bulky, but - CON? o_O
Here are some solutions to make H-C PA worth it:
First off, take away the - 2,4,6,8 CON and make it -2,4,6,8 DEX again
Make it so wearing the higher end PA (3 and 4) possible to actually cap a Tank's aiming! Damage is easily capped, but when it comes to aiming, handling, range, etc. a Tank can never cap there weapon. Hell, I have 220 HC ay 125 STR with an artifact capped CS and I still don't cap everything. That's absurd.
Make PA4 viable. IMO, PA1 should be the mid-level Tank PA. PA2 should be the close-to-cap PA, PA3 should be capped PA, and PA4 should be 125 STR and should only be worn by fully capped and implanted Tank.
Put colors back in. It's boring seeing everyone wear grey PA. Make PA1 grey, PA2 black, PA3 yellow, and PA4 red.
Make a differ design. We had this Tank PA for like 2 years, lol. Maybe sometype of PA v.2 from TT would be cool, and have differ models for male and female Tanks.
And as Ray said, boosting AoE is another must. AoE is something that Tanks are special for. No other class can use a rare AoE weapons, yet they aren't that great. Make it so they have a small barrel effect for awhile, and increase damage by a lot! I hate how AoE damage is % based, so the lower HP you have the lower the damage. A rare gatlin would also be the pwn, but would probably needs lot of testing since the RoF would be insane and couldn't be too powerful.
Yes! I really want female tank PA and also AoE increase.
you can allways spot the nibbishes running round ..there the ones with pa on:lol:
shodanjr_gr
07-01-04, 21:32
Originally posted by Revslad
you can allways spot the nibbishes running round ..there the ones with pa on:lol:
LoL, exactly what i was thinking.
PA is for use during leveling only. Once a tank hits around 90 STR there is no point in using it since you dont need the bonus it gives to use ur weaps, and the speed nerf u got from it is absurd.
I would love to see the HC-PA changed to -DEX / -AGL ...
dont change it to dex cos my imp setup requires the dex i have.
i like my purple shirt anyway(though i change it to red sometimes)
i see a not of peope wearing PA so some of em must like it.
id be happy with the removal of the shitty runspeed nerfage
Why is wearing PA "nibbish"? :confused:
As someone already said, we cant cap our guns, the higher the HC, the higher the aiming etc. A high aiming % makes a HUGE difference in pvp. Any significant HC bonus is therefore worth it in my eyes.
The armour PA3 provides is great, I don't think anyone has an issue with that, only problem is if you have low poison resist and need to wear VK.
The -6 con? what? who cares! i have 7 lower health with PA3 on. ONOZ!!!! It will reduce run speed slightly too, but so does -6 dex I believe.
The main issue is of course the athletics hit, which is significant even if you have high agility. However taking out a CS gimps our speed so damn much that we're hardly gunna be the most speedy of fighters anyway, best to concentrate on having uber HC so that every single blob of plasma hits and the target goes down as quickly as possible, and just try and move about your oponent as best you can. Hell if you're that worried, get a ppu to give you spy booster 3.
To be honest I don't find it much harder to hit a tank sans PA than a tank with PA.
I am a tank and i hate PA, i prefer a pink shirt, only problem is with 195 h-c, an average cs doesnt aim well and handles shitty. Thats why I got a devourer, dont need pa for that... =D
The spies and monks were making tons of posts begging for their long overdue PAs and they got some really nice armor. Maybe the tanks need to start doing the same?
What do you think about PA adding 15 to all resists rather than just energy? Perhaps that could justify the penalty to athletics?
Originally posted by RayBob
The spies and monks were making tons of posts begging for their long overdue PAs and they got some really nice armor. Maybe the tanks need to start doing the same?
What do you think about PA adding 15 to all resists rather than just energy? Perhaps that could justify the penalty to athletics?
that would mean a lot of lomming.. my resists are set to match the armor setup i have..
but i have to use last 6 con lvls i have almost all of them in atl to get a bit more than just damn 70 ath with pa 3.. and a decent all around full protection against whatever.
Originally posted by naimex
that would mean a lot of lomming.. my resists are set to match the armor setup i have..
but i have to use last 6 con lvls i have almost all of them in atl to get a bit more than just damn 70 ath with pa 3.. and a decent all around full protection against whatever.
I don't care about the lomming that would be amazing, but it aint gunna happen.
Originally posted by RayBob
The spies and monks were making tons of posts begging for their long overdue PAs and they got some really nice armor. Maybe the tanks need to start doing the same?
What do you think about PA adding 15 to all resists rather than just energy? Perhaps that could justify the penalty to athletics?
that would cause tank-o-cron to come back, plus thats way too much of a bonus. All PA needs is the -ath taken off and - agl added in its place.
Originally posted by ezza
dont change it to dex cos my imp setup requires the dex i have.
Oh, I'm sorry ezza. Nevermind the change then, king ezza has spoken!
:p
all hail the king:D :angel:
Shadow Dancer
08-01-04, 05:15
Originally posted by Flea
that would cause tank-o-cron to come back, plus thats way too much of a bonus. All PA needs is the -ath taken off and - agl added in its place.
um, how would tank-o-cron come back? You really think a few more resist bonuses would make tanks overpowered or something?
O_O?
I would like to see added resists, although I doubt it would happen, or if KK did implement a resist fix it wouldn't be as high as 15. Maybe 10 or possibly even 5, it could also depend on the differ levels. PA1 has 5 and it goes in increments of 5 and you get +15 at PA4.
Another way to pake PA viable.
Shadow Dancer
08-01-04, 05:26
Yes, let's "pake" it viable.
How about giving tank pa a shelter-like effect?
ok ok nvm :D
How about giving tank pa a+ to weplore?
Psycho Killa
08-01-04, 05:31
LOL fifteen in all resists would make them overpowered?
You could give them 100000 in all resists and they wouldnt be as good as a pe (without outside help) since resists cap and the reason pes take less damage is psi spells only.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Yes, let's "pake" it viable.
Hush you! :mad:
put agility in its place. may ass. well -agi in pa is the same shit when u remove stats from each other. just looks nicers with agility hit. but its the same hit.
and if u know me on saturn am a vary fast tank with out pa and i worked hard on my speed.
i guess am goin to use dex imps for agility and use pa3. or just keep my bakbone and not use pa3.
just remove -ath. is all tanks need. look at every other class wut real hits thay got from pa.
The -CON is not a problem at all. It means a loss of about 10 HP, and that's it. CON does nothing for your resists, it just gives you a few, and I mean a few, health and stamina points. I would take a -CON over a -DEX any day of the week. The CON hit doesn't cause you to lose any points in CON, so it's no problem. The ATH hit, however, does. And it's a big hit too. PEs couldn't survive if they had a big hit to ATH in their CON setups, and tanks rely on their CON even more.
I have been experimenting with PA over the past few months, trying to make it work. But I always performed better without it, so now I only ever pull it out for hunting.
And besides, tankocron was a million times more fun than monkacron. ;)
uhmm a GOOD tank can AoE with a Rare missile launcher a spy and a hover tech in like 2 or three hits while hes in motion
ok sort of in motion
ok lest just forget about anything being done about the damn athletics it takes..
BUT AT LEAST MAKE THE DAMN STR REQUIREMENTS SMALLER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IM GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF NOT BEING ABLE TO PUT ON HC PA 4 WITHOUT WEARING A GOD DAMN HERCULES AND 3 STR DRUGS OR USING NIGHTSHADE !!!
its fucked up that tanks CANT wear PA4 without rare drugs or super ultra mofo mc5 str imps !!
Sir ramic hobbs
08-01-04, 17:20
Tanks are a fun class imo. my tank has about 210 HC i think and im wearing PA 3 i get 230% aiming on CS which is cool i tried the pink shirt green trousers setup but CS RoF just wasnt scary enough which is why i wear PA 3 i mean the sound is so intimidating and offputting if i was in a duel with a tank id be looking at my healthall the time putting me of taking his health. i think its a good idea to remove agil instead of atl because all a tank needs in dex is the 89 TC and maybe 38 recycle but i love my combat hovertec :)
Originally posted by Scikar
The CON hit doesn't cause you to lose any points in CON, so it's no problem. The ATH hit, however, does. And it's a big hit too. PEs couldn't survive if they had a big hit to ATH in their CON setups, and tanks rely on their CON even more.
Exactly. The tank's main strength comes from the fact that they have 100 CON points. Their premier armor should not be taking away from a crucial skill within this category. We all know how important speed is in a fight and the penalty from drawing a weapon is already EXTREME.
Imagine if the spy PA took away 25 from WEP and the monk PA took away 25 from PSU. That is the exact equivalent of what the HC PA is doing---taking away 25 levels from an important skill within the class's primary category.
FIX TANK PA ! :mad: (please)
Originally posted by RayBob
Exactly. The tank's main strength comes from the fact that they have 100 CON points. Their premier armor should not be taking away from a crucial skill within this category. We all know how important speed is in a fight and the penalty from drawing a weapon is already EXTREME.
Imagine if the spy PA took away 25 from WEP and the monk PA took away 25 from PSU. That is the exact equivalent of what the HC PA is doing---taking away 25 levels from an important skill within the class's primary category.
FIX TANK PA ! :mad: (please)
lol :eek: Monk Pa takeing away from INT :eek: :eek: and psu
but i think monk and/or HC pa should be changed to DEX as...well cos i said so :p
seriously., ok u can leave Monk pa in con but tank pa in con too thats jsut abserd its takeing away from one of there 2 top stats which to me is jsut wrong imo :o
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