View Full Version : Idea for PvP/Pking... lets make it fun again
I am often posting what may seem to be posts against PKers. To clarify, I am totally in favor of PvP/PKing.
Oops, lemme do a definition first. I will use PvP to mean (anytime a player interacts with or against another player) and PK to mean (anytime a player engages another player in combat). So I will PK for this post.
Anyway, here are the issues I see revolving around PKers... a lot of these are simply opinions.
1. Not everyone wants to fight.
2. PKers want to kill other players.
3. PKers like a challenge, thats why the fight humans rather than AI mobs.
4. There should be a reward for killing appropriate players
5. WHile there is SOME skill involved, a lot of the effectiveness in Neocron is equip/stat based. No matter HOW skilled they are, a 10/20 tank cannot take down a 40/60 tank.
Okay, you can agree or disagree with any of those, but thats how I see things. Those are the basis for what I suggest.
Now, my suggestion:
1. No SL hit for killing any player that is within 5 ranks below and any number of ranks above you. I mean actual rank, not combat rank.
2. You get one of best 10 items as a drop (no belt to hack, but not sure about how the safe slot would come into play) for killing any player as described above.
3. If you are attacked by another runner first, the above rules apply regardless of the other runner's rank.
What this will result in:
1. Reason for PKers to fight people of the same level. This will cut down on the number of noob killings, which really is at the heart of the what a lot of runners complain about. People could still PK lower level runners, but they take the SL hit (if applicable) and they dont get any drop. So the ability isnt removed to kill noobs... there is just now a specific incentive not to.
2. Gives PKers a reason to PK. You now might get your opponents armor/weapon/etc.
3. Gives players a reason to hunt PKers. You now might get their stuff as well.
4. Better PvP for everyone. You will have more fights involving people of similar levels and thus more properly matched.
5. No abuse by lower ranked players attacking higher ranked ones. Lower ranked players can attack a higher ranked runner on the chance they win, but they risk their own stuff dropping in case of a loss.
6. Would open up the possibility of PK action at all skill levels.... the noob tank can attack the other noob tank. Etc.
I am not saying I can think up a good RP reason for these changes, or that they are even possible. But I do think they would maybe solve some of the evils associated with PKing in Neocron.
Thoughts?
Yea just hate the SL loss when you are a APU :p
Why? omg........ just look at me and I am gonna die, if I dont see you first :p
Then loose 5 items hmm HL, 5slot PB, FA, APU PA "Yea give the vendors it!!!!!!!! crappy run or make all do pathetic runs every time they need it ^^" and yea a psi 3 booster :p
So yes 5 stars..
shodanjr_gr
06-01-04, 16:09
I like most of it, but u should still make the safe slot item safe.
Meaning that you will get a valuable item of the victim, but it wont be his main weapon (which for quite a few people is a bitch to get). Besides getting a monks PA and selling it back to him for 150K can be considered quite good loot :).
[SP]Ostrich
06-01-04, 16:11
hmm... yeah, but APUS can down anyone if they're /60 and you're /66 if they shoot first...
EDIT: most people, especially with a ppu strap-on.
Yeah, I wasnt sure on the safe slot idea. I imagine most would be in favor of keeping that in place...
It doesnt matter to me one way or the other.
It DOES, as you point out, bring up the issue of monk PA. Right now, and there is another thread on this, monk PA is the hardest PA to get by a long shot. If all PAs were the same price level and all of them took the same effort to obtain... then yeah, that would be a prize drop to get off of a target.
ive just skimmed though what you have said so far, ill proberbly comment more when i get home later.
but one thing im gonna say streight away, is the within 5 ranks thing, take a apu, hes not going to be close enough to see the diffrence in ranks.
hell even with my tank when i see enemy i attack quite often i dont see the rank untill the first salvo of plasma has left my gun
ghandisfury
06-01-04, 16:44
Originally posted by Strych9
1. Not everyone wants to fight.
True, but most people do. They just don't like getting ganked.
Originally posted by Strych9
2. PKers want to kill other players.
Again true, but most times without consiquence.
Originally posted by Strych9
3. PKers like a challenge, thats why the fight humans rather than AI mobs.
Not true. 99.99999% of PKers don't want a challenge. That's why the GR camp, Hack kill, or bring overwhelming odds.
Originally posted by Strych9
5. WHile there is SOME skill involved, a lot of the effectiveness in Neocron is equip/stat based. No matter HOW skilled they are, a 10/20 tank cannot take down a 40/60 tank.
True, but I think noob killing is much less of a problem then it used to be. And with the loss of safe-zones it will become an even better society.
Originally posted by Strych9
[B]1. No SL hit for killing any player that is within 5 ranks below and any number of ranks above you. I mean actual rank, not combat rank.
Then a high ranking PPU will never be able to fight. And people will constantly be lowering their rank/raising their rank to thwart PK efforts.
Originally posted by Strych9
2. You get one of best 10 items as a drop (no belt to hack, but not sure about how the safe slot would come into play) for killing any player as described above.
Strongly dissagree. Hackers should be neccessary, and should be a viable tradeskill. I think that belts and WBs should take at least 50 more hack then they already do.
Originally posted by Strych9
[3. If you are attacked by another runner first, the above rules apply regardless of the other runner's rank./B]
I like this, no SL penalties if an "allied runner" makes the first attack.
I honestly think there should be some reward for PKers, but I'm not sure what it should be....like a good/bad alignment. All of these ideas (imo) are far to easily exploitable.
The no SL loss for the rank thing would be totally against the whole factional alignments thing so that wouldnt really work within the context of the game world as is. Other than that, its a nice idea.
Originally posted by ezza
hell even with my tank when i see enemy i attack quite often i dont see the rank untill the first salvo of plasma has left my gun And that, ezza, goes against EVERYTHING a mmorpg stands for, and is part of the problem. :rolleyes:
Regardless, what I suggest is that you can still run around and blaze everyone you see, even before you see their rank- the only difference, if you do that, between what I say and how it is now is that with what I say, if you happen to attack a runner close to your level, you will get an item drop NOT inside of a hackable belt.
So you still come out ahead. ;)
And maybe if you actually get stuff and can totally avoid neg SL by attacking close ranked runners, you can actually be inconvenienced enough to determine the rank of the runner before you kill them. Dont you think that would be worth it... having to see runner rank vs. having to work off neg SL (which you seem not to fond of)???
EXCELLENT strych.
Reminds me of the good old NC days - dropping all my guns to the infamous Headshot on my first day :D
Your system goes back to the NC we all knew and loved. However, it introduces an aspect of control that NC was lacking at this time.
Great idea, 5 stars and "sex @ j00"
Edit - im not sure on the safe slot thing.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
And people will constantly be lowering their rank/raising their rank to thwart PK efforts.I said rank, not combat rank. You cannt raise and lower your rank unless you add/remove imps. And that directly affects what weaps/armor/spells you can use, so I guess if someone wants to not use any brain imps that add to skill totals (and thus affect overall rank) I guess thats possible, but I dont see many people doing that.
Remember, actual rank, not combat rank. I am talking about the 40 in 55/40, not the 55. So PPUs arent affected any differently by this either.
Originally posted by Elric
The no SL loss for the rank thing would be totally against the whole factional alignments thing so that wouldnt really work within the context of the game world as is.You would still have factional sympathy, which is independent of SL loss, correct? If I am mistaken on this, let me know, but I thought that SL hits are based only on the SL of the runner you kill (and the zone in which you kill them) while factional sympathies are altered by the factions involved in the killing (and the zone in which the killing happens).
I am only talking about the SL aspect, not the factional aspect.
Unless I didnt understand what you meant?
Yeah your half right.
In Hunting zones you lose SL for anyone you kill, allied or hostile.
However, outside of that any other zone you can kill hostile (red) runners without loosing any SL.
I think you lose / gain faction sympathy no matter who it is or where it is you kill them.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I dont PK much, but when i did, thats how it seemed to work (although a few of them were epic kills if that would make any difference)
Originally posted by Elric
Yeah your half right. In Hunting zones you lose SL for anyone you kill, allied or hostile. However, outside of that any other zone you can kill hostile (red) runners without loosing any SL. I think you lose / gain faction sympathy no matter who it is you kill. Okay then, I am suggesting that in non-hunting zones, you dont get SL loss (when your normally would) if the runner meets the requirements I listed.
The different zone/different faction thing ends up making this game overly complicated in terms of rules. :p
just clear up to me why i should get SL lose for killing a ENEMY noob?
i could understand if it was allied and i ganked em
as a penalty for killing someone thats completely defenceless in comparison to you?
Originally posted by Elric
as a penalty for killing someone thats completely defenceless in comparison to you? still my enemy though, hes made the choice to open himself up for being a target by takeing his LE out(or being told to:rolleyes: ) not my fault hes low level
Fair point aye, Im only suggesting a possibility and what sounds like a relatively believable rp cause though ;)
Not your fault he is low level?
Well whose "fault" is it?
:rolleyes:
Yes, he is your enemy. However, if you read what I said... I said WITHIN the normal SL rules. Right now, would you take a SL hit for killing an enemy noob? No... so no SL hit in what I suggest.
Here is what I said:
People could still PK lower level runners, but they take the SL hit (if applicable) and they dont get any drop. So the ability isnt removed to kill noobs... there is just now a specific incentive not to.So you, ezza, can still gank noobs, but you would take the SL hit (if applicable) and you dont get any drop from the noob.
If applicable means if you were to get one otherwise.
The problem is PKers having to tolerate neg SL, correct? You complain about doing missions to remove neg SL correct? Well, with my system, you only get neg SL by attacking allied and neutral runners that are low level (instead of by attacking allied and neutral runners that are of any level).
I dont change anything for enemy runners except what they drop.
I agree with some of it but:
This will make hackers even more useless than they are today.
This will allow people to grab stuff from some other guys "kill" and the loss of items will be significant. That, I think, will for most people result in the "I-DON'T-WANT-TO-DIE-EVER" feeling and I do not mean making a good resist setup so you don't die. People will zone if they lose 10hp.
Also. If a belt dosen't drop and a "good" item just drops, how will you feel the next time you see a guy 5 below or over your rank hacking a WB? I know how I would feel...KILL HIM AND TAKE HIS STUFF.
As opposed to now I wouldn't lose SL even if he was in an allied faction, I would maybe lose some sympathy but who cares about it anyway as long as you don't drop beneath 0.
Just my thoughts.
no pkers only have to put up with bad SL if they go random pking, dont happen anymore, Pkers normally kill there enemies cos theres no gain to killing allies anymore, onyl time i lose SL is in the aggy celler
maybe in not reading it right as i say i didnt read it all fully so you will have to let me off with that for the time being.
Originally posted by Xizor
This will make hackers even more useless than they are today.Are you indicating that hacking belts is a big important use of the hacker presently? Hacking belts is just a luxury the hacker has- I FULLY agree that hackers need importance, but I think that is a whole different balance issue. That alone should not be a reason not to try and make PvP better.
I think that when two big and bad tanks square off, and one drops their weapon, the winner should get the weapon, not some random low level spy that stumbles upon the belt later on.
This will allow people to grab stuff from some other guys "kill" and the loss of items will be significant. That, I think, will for most people result in the "I-DON'T-WANT-TO-DIE-EVER" feeling and I do not mean making a good resist setup so you don't die. People will zone if they lose 10hp.Like someone else pointed out, thats how the game used to be.
I was in the snake graves once when a tank ran through the party I was with, quickly killed a tank, the tank dropped his doombeamer, the PKer tank picked it up and hauled ass. Hehe.
Will people still loot? Sure, its possible. If the PKer really wants it bad I am sure they will stick around to snag whatever it is. But as I said above, right now people get other people's loot from kills because the tanks can never hack the belts of those they kill. And even if they could, they in many cases wouldnt PK someone and then stand there and hack their belt.
And remember, the PKer runs the same risk as the victim. If they get killed they can lose what they carry.
Also. If a belt dosen't drop and a "good" item just drops, how will you feel the next time you see a guy 5 below or over your rank hacking a WB? I know how I would feel...KILL HIM AND TAKE HIS STUFF.Actually the way it used to be was any one random item would drop, not one of the ten best. Maybe that would spice it up more.
And runners already run a risk when the solo hunt WBs and hack them. Someone can EASILY run up and loot the stuff in the WB before you can get it (once the hack is done) and they can also EASILY kill the spy as he is hacking. You dont get a random item- BUT *most* people that would kill the spy hacking a WB would kill the spy with OR without a drop.
As opposed to now I wouldn't lose SL even if he was in an allied faction, I would maybe lose some sympathy but who cares about it anyway as long as you don't drop beneath 0.You are correct. That is a way in which it benefits the Pker. But like I said- its the spy's responsibility to watch his ass before he solo hacks a warbot. That wouldnt change.
With my system, as your level increased, your situational awareness would have to increase as well.
Originally posted by ezza
no pkers only have to put up with bad SL if they go random pking, dont happen anymore, Pkers normally kill there enemies cos theres no gain to killing allies anymore, onyl time i lose SL is in the aggy celler
maybe in not reading it right as i say i didnt read it all fully so you will have to let me off with that for the time being.Its like this:
Imagine the exact current system... except that when you kill a runner close to your rank (5 below or any level above) you dont take a SL hit no matter what, and that runner dops one of their items on the ground. And if a low level runner attacks you first, you can retaliate without a SL hit. Thats the only difference between current rules and my suggestion.
so if i attack noob first i lose SL?
well in that case i dont like it, but since every other idea to fuck over the pkers has been put in im sure this will be thown in also, ill leave this thread be now.
Padon? How does this fuck the PKers?
I am saying things stay the same except that when you PK someone that is near your own rank, no matter WHAT faction they are... they drop an item to the ground (that you Mr. Tank can get without hacking) AND you take NO SL hit.
How is that not totally helping PKers????????
EDIT: regarding noobs- its exactly the same as it is now. I just offer incentive to kill similar ranked players. No new punishment for noob killing. If you attack a noob, its handled EXACTLY like it is now... nothing new.
ok Strych9 has cleared this up for my slow brain to comprehend.
so im now down with this idea:D
sure... i like it. this game has gone too carebear lately.
on a side note.... i cant believe how many people actually wana pk noobs and feel good about it. noobs know nothing about the game and are trying to get into it, and you ruin it for them. ive had 3 friends quit before they got to /10 just because of people ganking them. i know the LE should stay in, but honestly, do you feel like a better PvPer cause you have 20 dogtags of people under /45. i'd be all for a huge noob killing penalty. im glad uranus dosnt have a noob ganking problem(that im aware of)
nice idea but I think ther should be a cap at which the rank thing is affected say lvl 60 since some people have normal ranks of 71 and such. For them to kill people they would have to find others who had done tons of mission have mc5's and rest of the good imps in.
other than that its good
tomparadox
06-01-04, 18:48
5. WHile there is SOME skill involved, a lot of the effectiveness in Neocron is equip/stat based. No matter HOW skilled they are, a 10/20 tank cannot take down a 40/60 tank.
i did once.......but i think he was afk ;)
rest i sorta agree with exept they dont whant a challang or they wouldent cap GRs and dont have it so they jest get one of the best ten items in your inv without them haveing to hack. cus if they did that a lota people would 1 stick LEs in witch might ruin clans or 2 leav NC. and even with LE in you can be killed witch im about to send a bugreport to someone about it.
Shadow Dancer
06-01-04, 18:51
I totally love this idea. Safeslot should stay though IMO. I think hackable belts are lame. That is so biased against apus and tanks who kill alone. It's just too much gimpage to have hacking for an apu, and a tank can't even hack belts PERIOD unless the person has -539284083274 SL.
Um, the problem is making it based on level rank. My previous apu char had a level rank of 55. I don't know why but he did, the only stat he didn't cap was int. I've seen any pes and tanks with rank 65/70. So what about situations like that?
Originally posted by [SP]Ostrich
hmm... yeah, but APUS can down anyone if they're /60 and you're /66 if they shoot first...
And anyone can down an apu first if they shoot first.
Originally posted by [SP]Ostrich
hm
EDIT: most people, especially with a ppu strap-on.
Anybody + ppu = ownage
EDIT: Strych, due to the mentality of some of the posters in this thread you're going to have to more thoroughly define the difference between PKer and PvPer. Since to some people pking just means going to aggies and killing 0/2 people.
Well, I said they want a challenge and that was sorta wishful thinking on my part. In the forums they will claim they fear nothing and never die... but you find them in game, and they do things like camping GRs and attacking noobs- all which seem to avoid a challenge. So you are correct. I am just HOPING that most of them would like a challenge I guess. :)
In terms of the rank thing- we can maybe have a hard cap.
For example- If you are under rank 55 (not sure what the ideal rank would be) then the rules I stated applied. If you are over rank 55, then everyone rank 50 and up is available. So the rank 71 PE would get the drops and lack of SL hit for 50 and up. So once your runner hits rank 50, you become an open target in Neocron unless you have your LE in.
Again, not sure if 50 should be the cutoff... just saying that is how that could be handled.
well i can hold my hand up and say when i go into the aggy celler its to fight high level enemies, i hate doing missions so i dont go in there just to gank johnny nobody and have the SL hit.
only time ive killed a noobie in there was when he damage boosted me whilst i was fighting a merc PE, killed both the noob and the merc thanks very much:D
No, and here is why...
It just won't work. The classes are not balanced well enough nor is the PK system sensitive enough to fix any of the basic problems with the game. And those are:
Monks, especially APUs can be very effective fighters at much lower level. So for instance a decent (And decently equiped APU) of /50 can kill a capped tank. That means the APU can gank capped tanks freely, while the tank cannot make the first attack or he loses SL (Nor can the tank get his revenge on the monk the next time he sees the APU). The same applies to many other classes since equipment is much more important than levels.
The other problem is that this in no way fixes the problem with someone shooting a single bullit into a n00b running through his line of fire, and the n00b dies or lives but dies later to a mob...
So, no, this system will never work unless KK takes forever to carefully rebalance all the classes, levels, skills and abilities.
no and here is why...
the classes are perfectly balanced atm imo,
and i think the current systems fine, though they DO need to change the speed at which SL drops
Lucid Dream
07-01-04, 02:36
A) No SL loss for 'teamkills"? thats retarded. That will only fuel the anti-rp bullshit, "Hi buddy, what a nice faction we have eh?" "dienuby!" *dead faction member* *drops item*
B) No, most people wont just randomly kill a spy hacking a WB he killed, only an asshole would do that.
Dade Murphey
07-01-04, 05:02
Voted Yes...I like the idea...but the only thing I would change is I think it should go off combat rank...when I was still playing a spy I could use a lot higher lvl rifles than most people of my natural rank...a droner can use a lot more powerful weapons than his natural rank implies...I think tanks combat rank needs to be taken up a bit (fits in with what I'm saying) they do much more dmg than it implies...and as a pistol PE my natural rank is higher than my combat rank, and the pistols I'm using kinda do dick if I were to fight people who are equal natural rank with me or higher...apu's do more dmg, also, than their natural rank lets on (normally, least mine did)...but yeah...I think you get where I'm going with this
Originally posted by Lareolan
Monks, especially APUs can be very effective fighters at much lower level. So for instance a decent (And decently equiped APU) of /50 can kill a capped tank. That means the APU can gank capped tanks freely, while the tank cannot make the first attack or he loses SL (Nor can the tank get his revenge on the monk the next time he sees the APU). The same applies to many other classes since equipment is much more important than levels.These are not problems to my suggestion- these are just problems that exist now. What I say changes NOTHING about what you say above, except that the APU could get a drop from the tank.
The tank can get his revenge, just like he does now. And he would only take a SL hit if he would take one normally. NOTHING would change for the tank as I suggest it.
And i think the idea of a /50 APU "freely ganking capped tanks" is a bit silly. Its not like capped tanks spawn in some pit where the APU can stand on a ledge and barrel them all day. :rolleyes:
The other problem is that this in no way fixes the problem with someone shooting a single bullit into a n00b running through his line of fire, and the n00b dies or lives but dies later to a mob...Where did I claim it fixed that?????
Regardless, my idea actually DOES help SOMEWHAT because if a noob fires the bullet into the other noob, then the noob doing the firing wouldnt take a SL hit. So that is a marginal improvement over how it is now (where the shooting noob would take a SL hit possibly).
I never claimed this fixed the PvP system in Neocron. :confused:
Originally posted by Dade Murphy
but the only thing I would change is I think it should go off combat rankWell, problem with that is that combat rank is so easily manipulated. So the pure HC capped tank equips a newb knife- his rank would be somewhere between 1 and 4 I think. So that allows him to easily beat up on newbs with no penalty (and we would still be able to easily kill noobs with a noob knife as well). So the tank gets to annoy noobs and the noobs drop loot. The flip side is that the HC tank carrying a CS and DB and Mal decides he needs to run through some unsafe areas, so he equips a noob knife. His combat rank drops to somewhere between 1 and 4... and now if anyone kills him, according to combat rank, they killed a noob and while he would die, and while the killer might get a SL hit, there would be no drop.
The problem I am trying to deal with is removing the incentive for killing noobs. By addressing combat rank, there is no longer any distintcion between vet and noob.
The problem that we have, I understand, is that base rank <> combat effectiveness. Now it USED to be that when anyone killed anyone else, regardless of ranks, items dropped- and back then no one had a problem with it really (except for the hardcore PvPers that were afraid of losing their precious rare... hehe).
The combat rank system IS flawed, as you point out.. which is why I figured to use natural rank. The items you carry and TL of what you can use is based on that rank (since its based on the levels of your skills).
I think using natural rank instead of combat rank would result in less abuse.
Dade Murphey
08-01-04, 03:47
I see where you're coming from...but the problem with what I suggested and what you suggested is that on both sides we'll have people getting jacked who can't do much about it...if they were to implement a system like your's which I don't think is bad, I think they should go back to one number for rank...a combo between combat AND natural...that way even if someone dropped rank and equipped a knife they'd still be too high to gank noobs...I can't remember if they still had the single rank thing in beta 4...not sure when it changed...but a combo of that and what you're suggesting would be good
Starving Poet
08-01-04, 04:09
I see alot of PPUs and droners coming into attack should this ever be realized. But then what's to stop someone from carrying 10 tl122 drones and never having to worry about a drop?
5 passive anks below wouldnt work... a /50 apu or ppu is still very dangerous.
remove safe slot
remove quickbelts
bring drops back to warzones
= pvp/pk'ing being fun again...
right now their's no reason why anyone should be scared in pvp...which is fucking stupid...i hate that...main reason is quickbelts and the safeslot...i'd much rather see it go back to dropping an item on the ground...instead of a quickbelt...
if you go pk'ing...you have to bring a hacker with you or else no loot for you...so what's the point in pk'ing...i want a reward when i kill someone...yes i have a hacker PE capable of hacking belts...i still hate it and wish it would go back to ground drops
also most people arent scared of pk'ers anymore...becuz they know when they die...their safeslot holds their best rare and the quickbelt has to be hacked...and since it's throughout the entire inventory...it's usually a shit item...when i was an apu i carried tons of storebought spells that would drop in my belt if i died...it was intentional...i only ever dropped a rare once...and i actually maintained going back to my belt while it was guarded and getting it back...oh yes quickbelts are great...
i HATE quickbelts....i also hate the safeslot and drops in warzones...
i wish i wasnt one of the few that think like this...i wish more people would quit being babies about dropping shit...ffs :rolleyes:
Just wanna point out two things:
Originally posted by gostly
right now their's no reason why anyone should be scared in pvp...which is fucking stupid...i hate that...main reason is quickbelts and the safeslot...i'd much rather see it go back to dropping an item on the ground...instead of a quickbelt...Well, it was the big bad PKers that got the safeslot invented in the first place, cause they were afraid to lose their weapons. Some of that thinking still exists, esp. from our resident self-proclaimed badass PKer Vett, in that he indicated that he would want the safeslot on Neptune, the server designed for those that are tough. :rolleyes:
So the PvP camp is divided. Some want drops, but there seems to be an equal amount that are scared of losing their rare weapon.
Maybe if/when the PK community arrives on a consensus about this, they will see changes.
also most people arent scared of pk'ers anymore...becuz they know when they die...their safeslot holds their best rare and the quickbelt has to be hacked...and since it's throughout the entire inventory...it's usually a shit item...when i was an apu i carried tons of storebought spells that would drop in my belt if i died...it was intentional...i only ever dropped a rare once...and i actually maintained going back to my belt while it was guarded and getting it back...oh yes quickbelts are great... No, people ARE scared of PKers, and its not because of drops. To illustrate, read the thread that Vett started about how its hard to find people to PK, and about how so many people put the LE back in when levelling.
Why? Its not drops. The noobs that many PKers attack dont have rares yet.
Its just the hassle of getting killed WITHOUT some type of RP behind it. Getting killed is always a hassle (as it should be) but when the death happens just because some guy was running around killing people far below his rank... that makes it more frustrating.
So yes, people DO fear PKers... otherwise they wouldnt all be levelling with their LE in. They just dont fear them for the reason you name.
--
As far as the passive rank number, we can just set a rank after which everyone is fair game. If /50 is the magic number, so be it. Make it so all /50 and higher chars are non-SL loss kills for all other /50 and higher chars. Whatever. The point is that the /50 attacking the /10 would NOT get a drop of any kind and would get a SL hit if appropriate. The /50 attacking the /50 would get a drop and be free of any SL hit.
--
As far as using combat or passive rank- yeah, either can get abused... but at least the passive rank cannot be intentionally faked since its the average of your skills. Sure, you can add/remove imps, but you could never reduce your passive rank to /2 like you could reduce your combat rank to 1/. So by using passive rank, we GUARANTEE that the only runners that can gank true newb chars are other newb chars.
But Dade, if they do go back to one rank, that wouldnt upset me at all. :)
--
Starving Poet- anyone using TL 122 drones would have a very high combat rank, and thus would be open to dropping something in every encounter.
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