View Full Version : Tradeskill Exp
superfresh
04-01-04, 13:02
There's always been a few threads like these floating around since I started. What the hell I'll start my own.
I've had a tradeskiller on Saturn since April. My other three characters are combat ones and are pretty much capped. I made a tradeskiller because I was led to believe that not only are they as important as combat characters in NC, but they are as viable a "lifestyle" to pursue. The NC frontpage states "You become a citizen of one of the last mega cities on Earth (Neocron) and it is up to you whether you want to experience exciting adventures or just lead a normal life in this virtual world." My other three characters experience plenty of exciting adventures. My tradeskiller services people, has done so for 8 months, and will probably need another 8 to cap his skills. So my point is, tradeskillers should be able to cap their skills by tradeskilling.
Now, I don't think by any means that tradeskillers should have it easy and be able to level as fast as combat characters. But as of now the potential isnt even there, realistically. In order to get better at repairing, constructing, researching, and so on, I have to shoot mobs. That's the bottom line and it makes no sense. Shooting crap should make me better at shooting. Building stuff should make me better at building. How a dude with a rifle gets SMARTER faster by popping warbots than the one researching high-tech parts is beyond me.
Think of it another way. NC is a PvP game in addition to all its other elements. That means that a serious player, one who wants to get involved in OP wars and faction dominance HAS to go through the levelling treadmill. The treadmill is fine, but everyone who wants to take part in this part of of the game is going to go through the treadmill, and is going to get capped one way or another. Capping a character, if PvP is an important part of this game, should not be a privilege. It is simply the result of time & effort. If the logic is that a character can cap themselves via tradeskilling and convert to combat via lomming, then so be it. Lomming itself would be the penalty for such a player, and that makes way more sense than the humble little tradeskiller shooting stuff to get better at, say, bartering. :rolleyes:
Sometimes tradeskilling can be fun in an interactive way. Sometimes its boring and so I play my combat characters. But otherwise, I should be able to get better at my skill by performing it, not by zapping critters in some cave. I don't spend all of my game time tradeskilling, but I've spent way more than what should cap my skill IMHO.
I love this game. The developers should make it better by giving (almost) as much respect to the tradeskillers as the combat characters. It shouldn't be about how long I hold down the mouse button while mobs are in my crosshairs.
Yeah there definitely needs to be better tradeskiller XP.
somehow i feal like this is the eye of the storm atm. in the past Trader leveling suck. you need one week to reach midlevel without getting any real money to buy all the fancy trader stuff like tools for you skills.
no its january and everyone waiting for this cool new feature list of BDoY to see if there are anything in it that change the borin trader life give them more highlevel construct stuff and so on...
lets hope we get a real part of NC in the future and as much needed as fighters.
Ah, good, I did some counting few days back.
My constructor has base 78 Int now. To cap him with current stats I would need to make 49217 holy heals (tl 85), yes you read it correct - fifty thousand. It takes about 19 seconds for the construction to complete, maybe around 21 seconds with all the drag'n drop shit.
Thus, capping my char would need 287 hours on continuos drag&drop hell. Twelve days, assuming one would do it 24/7.
24/7 is impossible so, how about 2 hour of nothing more but drag&drop per day? 144 days. 2 hours of extreme boredom per day for 144 days.
Do I need say more? No-one and I mean no-one, does 2 hours per day that kind of jobs, and it would still take nearly half a year.
Conclusion : Capping constructor by plaza service and normal constructing is impossible, KK will be bankcrupt before the char is capped or even near cap.
Originally posted by Argent
... yes you read it correct - fifty thousand....
lol, dont forget about the money it takes for such a work.
300-500 mio :)
Originally posted by msdong
lol, dont forget about the money it takes for such a work.
300-500 mio :)
Yeah, if you do it alone.
With my friend with resser and barter, we can actually make very good profit from the spells, so money isn't the problem. Time is the problem.
Mighty Max
04-01-04, 14:58
Hi,
First of all, I'd like to say yeah, you are fully right.
But actually with the current system of LoM and co, i cant. The reason for this:
- Players who want to make a tradeskiller: Levels a PSI/Droner etc and LoMs atm. (Yeah i know its not the supposed way)
with the changes:
- Players will use tradeskills to level INT to LoM to their needed Skills
In my Eyes it is time to use the LoM that way they were introduced for:
Correct the skills that were missmached due to a patchchange and then remove them again. I really hope that the LoMs get lost after BDoY. Honestly we dont need them to correct errors but we use them to cheat about leveling.
I've seen many players changed their professions and i've seen this happen more then once per runner.
So before anything is changed about leveling speed of a profession, the profession first must be seperated. Or you only will change the leveling speed of all.
Originally posted by Argent
Yeah, if you do it alone.
With my friend with resser and barter, we can actually make very good profit from the spells, so money isn't the problem. Time is the problem.
yes, only 500 monks that need a fullset of 5 slotters spending one mio.
i dont think it is bad when you cap a char in half a year of playing. its just that fighting chars level to fast in NC.
Correct the skills that were missmached due to a patchchange and then remove them again. I really hope that the LoMs get lost after BDoY. Honestly we dont need them to correct errors but we use them to cheat about leveling.
Speak for yourself. I've used LoMs to tweak my character as the LoMs were intended - removing some RC to put into TC, removing some recycle and agility to put into VHC, and tweaking INT a tad to allow for hacking.
LoMs are very useful for fixing the occasional mis-allocation and for adjusting a character after the addition of new items (PA, gloves, boosted imp stats).
NC is combat-oriented. Combat includes PvM, something any player can take part in - LE or no LE. Things have changed to make combat and tradeskills viable at the same time on the same character. I wouldn't expect an XP change any time soon for tradeskills.
Been saying this for ages...
The way it is now Tradeskillers need some encouragement to spec that way they are getting fewer.
5 Stars
I don't care if peeps level by tradeskill and lom to combat, atm they do it the other way round anyway.... just make tradeskilling like 30% less than leveling or something...(can't say accurate numbers cuz i don't know them well enough)
I make 20k int every time I BP a Gat3 so I dont know how borked it is, seems ok to me.
Originally posted by IceStorm
....NC is combat-oriented. Combat includes PvM, something any player can take part in - LE or no LE. ...
its not about PvP or PvM its about using Tradeskill only.
it is written nowhere "you have to do PVM to be a skilled character".
well, talk is cheap, wait for BDoY is gold.
Originally posted by msdong
i dont think it is bad when you cap a char in half a year of playing. its just that fighting chars level to fast in NC.
That is if you don't do anything but drag, click start, drag, click start..... for 2 hours of every day. That's 171 TL-85 constructions per hour.
If I'm at plaza construnting I'm happy to get construction job every 5 minutes and their average TL is usually around 60. It would take years to cap char like this.
its not about PvP or PvM its about using Tradeskill only.
it is written nowhere "you have to do PVM to be a skilled character".
Heh. Most of Neocron isn't "written" well, if at all...
I've already stated why I think combat-leveling is here to stay. No point in repeating it. You can wait for BDOY, but I for one don't expect any change.
...
o_O
Since when did handling a gun have nothing do with barter, it's the ultimate way of getting a discount!
:p
Anyway, tradeskilling expereience should be probably be upped a bit, but not too much.
Originally posted by El_Muerko
I make 20k int every time I BP a Gat3 so I dont know how borked it is, seems ok to me.The problem is that once you reach higher levels, you'll need a few million points of experience to get another level. While still getting the same 20k int experience.
Besides, are you sure it's 20k? I'm pretty certain I get less for researching a Particle Nemesis, and I do that quite a lot.
Mighty Max
04-01-04, 19:02
Speak for yourself. I've used LoMs to tweak my character as the LoMs were intended - removing some RC to put into TC, removing some recycle and agility to put into VHC, and tweaking INT a tad to allow for hacking.
To clear this up abit (I dont go conform on your intention of LoMs),
out of the #160 notes (where the first time LoM where named):
* Because of the following changes, we will implement so-called "Loss of Memory" pills. On consumption, they reduce the level of the appropriate subskill and release the appropriate amounts of trainpoints. This will allow everyone to redistribute their skills to match the changes.
* Running is slower depending on the type of the drawn weapon. With Melee- and Pistol-type weapons running is fastest, with Heavy Weapons slowest.
* Stronger separation between aggressive and passive PSI Monks:
# The subskill "Exotic PSI Use" has been changed into "Mental Steadiness". Its function is like the subskill "Hightech Combat". This means an increasing amount is required to be able to use better PSI modules.
# The improve the role of the passive PSI monk, new PSI spells have been added that make him a valuable addition to a team.
# The effects of Parashock modules have been changed (less damage/more paralysis) and the modules are now in the Passive category.
* Another change concerning specialisation into certain roles is the correction of a mistake in the calculation of the use restrictions. This leads to an increase of the subskill-userestrictions for weapons around TL 75. I.e. a Fusion Cannon will require 102 in Heavy Combat instead of the current 88. With the LoM pills mentioned above, it will be possible to redistribute the skill points, which should lead to the desired specialisation.
You see the point? LoM were to adopt the patch changes, which were dramatically harder that times.
I know that the LoMs are loved, cuz they make life easier, but i also see that they on the other side bring much trouble with them when trying to solve other problems. You simply cant tweak any profession anymore without tweaking every other profession too with the loms.
Hell, even i used LoMs but everytime i did i regret that i couldnt stand it.
7 patches later then KK changed this system to allow the LoMs to be premanent (rather then to remove them after they did their job) they made them to remove levels EACH time u used them. K that sthg what i can life with. Since its just backleveling and changing any you could choose another way, where you took the wrong way.
But as it always where, this was too hard for someone and so we got them as they are now, put a LoM in whenever you think you could gain a 1/1000 part of a percent. To be honest that was something that removed a good piece of charme of Neocron.
And i can tell you what happens if the XP is increased on tradeskillers: ppl will go put some LoMs in, levels to 92 const (including buffs) and will go and const for STR,DEX and INT. Just to LoM back to their initial skills when they are done leveling.
Sorry, can this be intended?
I dont care what KK does, trade skillers need some kind of boost, it doesnt need to be big.
My friend has had a trade skiller since febuary of 2003.....
His rank is 0/41 :/
Thats in a year!
I can cap combat chars in around a week. Thats if I decide to play constantly.....
I have a trade skiller, guess what hes doing right now? Killing hurlers, butchees and cyclops for levels. Why? Cause trade skills give you shit experience.
Course soon im gonna stop combat because he will be at a good level for trade skilling.
:(
I agree completely with Superfresh...
I attempted to lvl some of my chars through tradeskilling and didn't get far... this should be adjusted.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
I make 20k int every time I BP a Gat3 so I dont know how borked it is, seems ok to me.
Methinks you're mistaken dude. I don't get that much =/
Methinks you're mistaken dude.
He's probably not mistaken. Best way to find out is to start a Spy, put all 78 trainpoints into research, then level using rsch only until you have the points necessary not to fail the turrets too often.
The lower you are in INT and Rsch, the more XP you seem to get for a BP. Same for Construction, but Construction takes into account DEX, so stsaying low enough to build quality capped items and still get XP is hard.
I did it with my researcher after reading the post and only got 4k per bp.
0_o
edit - Anyway, what you said just points out that it's easier for people to start out as opposed to making a career out of it later on.
what you said just points out that it's easier for people to start out as opposed to making a career out of it later on.
I already know this is true. I also don't believe tradeskills should be a primary profession, even though I research, construct, repair, recycle, drive, and hack, all on the same character. :-)
although its not necessary for construction, implant, and hack... In order to be a good researcher/repair person you have to invest as much as possible.
=/
*cries*
Yes. Fix it. (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85357)
20k seems wrong to me too.
btw Max - where did you dig up the 160 notes? I was looking for a copy recently and they seem to have vanished from the forum's history.
In order to be a good researcher/repair person you have to invest as much as possible.
I get up to 160 research with a +25 op bonus and imps/glove/boost 1 spell. I get up to 75 repair with imps/glove/boost 1 spell. It's plenty to research my own rares and repair my own equipment, and do research and repairs for others who don't mind someone a bit lower doing those tasks. Honesty is somewhat more important than raw skill...
You should also keep in mind that points aren't all that determine skill. Raw stats also matter, as per the Skills Guide (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477). I've but a single level of INT left until I'm completely capped, so that helps quite a bit.
btw Max - where did you dig up the 160 notes?
He probably sifted through the news archive (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Archives&file=index). They're all linked from there.
TY Icestorm. Dunno how I missed that.:o
Honesty is somewhat more important than raw skill
How true that is. However most people won't trust you right off the bat, and if you break one of their valued rares, they generally trust you less.
I have 201 research skill and 99 int... I still broke two 'e' parts today. One person was nice enough to note that life is not perfect and those things happen.
The other accused me of being a lying cheating expletive deleted.
As far as I know the research formula for 0% error is 2 x TL. and int doesn't factor in.
With repairing, it's more lax, but I prefer to give the lowest possible amount of degradation possible, because in the long run it makes for more weapons on the market.
How true that is. However most people won't trust you right off the bat, and if you break one of their valued rares, they generally trust you less.
I tell people flat-out that I may break E's and T's. L's I have enough skill not to break (at least, I've not broken one yet since I've been doing them with 140+ rsch). I also don't advertise my research ability. I get enough work via word-of-mouth, unfortunately.
As far as I know the research formula for 0% error is 2 x TL. and int doesn't factor in.
INT factors in somehow:
Research: 0.3(30%) INT + 0.7(70%) RES
Originally posted by IceStorm
Research: 0.3(30%) INT + 0.7(70%) RES
Well paint me purple!
Note that I do not know if that influences success rate, speed, both, neither, or some other factor that we don't know about. I don't believe that question is answered in the Skills Guide (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477) either, but I haven't read all of the guide thread lately.
I agree it needs fixed, the problem atm is that its unbalanced, imo they need to up the exp for higher lvls and lower it at low lvls, i rolled a tradeskill pe to rep my equipment as i can rarely find tradeskillers and for each item i repaired i got a int str and dex ding up till about lvl 10 in all, then at least one would ding once each repair up untill about lvl 20 (this is repairing tl 70-100 items).
The same goes for constructing and researching when u roll a tradeskiller you can get your first 20 odd lvls in an hour but thats about the only time your likely to hear the ding as a tradeskiller :(
Originally posted by superfresh
How a dude with a rifle gets SMARTER faster by popping warbots than the one researching high-tech parts is beyond me.
A warbot shot me in the head with a missile once, did level up INT from that (or i got lagged and the exp came at the same time as the missile hit me in my head)
One way to beat back the boredom of constructing craploads of items are to give tradeskillers some bonus item once and again, in Project Entropia you could get some byproduct (a gem or something) worth a bunch of money - That and some additional exp would make tradeskilling more intresting.
Originally posted by Mighty Max
- Players who want to make a tradeskiller: Levels a PSI/Droner etc and LoMs atm. (Yeah i know its not the supposed way)
with the changes:
- Players will use tradeskills to level INT to LoM to their needed Skills [/B]Do you not see the folly in what you are saying?
You acknowledge people level via Psi/Drones, and then LOM to tradeskills... yet you fear people levelling via tradeskills and then LOMming to combat skills????
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE???
People right now SHOULD be able to level via tradeskills and then LOM to combat, since they can do the opposite. I would even wager that levelling via tradeskills is superior than via combat, if we accept the evil that are LOMs, because it would be near impossible to level via tradeskills solo. Who will level Int/Dex faster- a solo droner or rifle spy out in the wastelands attacking Warbots, or a solo TL 200 constructor in Plaza 1 being asked to build colt budgets and such??? If someone wanted to level via trades it would also cost more (even if you had a barterer helping you out).
So regardless of LOMs, I think you SHOULD be able to level via tradeskills.
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE???
There's zero risk in leveling via tradeskills.
PvM introduces the whole basis for the non-rare and level 1/2 CPU market. Without PvM leveling, there's very little need for lower level CPUs and weapons.
If someone wanted to level via trades it would also cost more (even if you had a barterer helping you out)
It costs more, but it does more than break even. You can do it without a barterer. Items build for their construction cost from chems even when you're lower than quality cap.
Originally posted by IceStorm
There's zero risk in leveling via tradeskills.Oh, and there is risk levelling with your LE in hunting Warbots? You die... which only gives you Con exp... not exactly a "risk" to speak of. Plus any experienced player will laugh at you when you say there is risk involved in mobbing, LE or not.
Besides as soon as safezones are removed for DOY, it will suddenly be a LOT less safe for a tradeskiller to even EXIST on the server.
PvM introduces the whole basis for the non-rare and level 1/2 CPU market. Without PvM leveling, there's very little need for lower level CPUs and weapons.Which is EXACTLY why people will still PvM level. This is a combat game, and MOST players cannot stand the idea of using a tradeskill to level. Most like going out and AT LEAST killing mobs.
But you brought up another excellent reason why tradeskill levelling wouldnt be unbalanced... PvM levelling is the only way to get rares.
It costs more, but it does more than break even. You can do it without a barterer. Items build for their construction cost from chems even when you're lower than quality cap. I never said you wont break even- but you sure as hack make a lot more money mobbing than you do tradeskilling for levels. When you build items from chems you do that ONLY for the selling of items later. We are not talking about tradeskilling to make money- we are talking tradeskilling to level. And thats ENTIRELY different. If a high level constructor wants experience, he doesnt get much of it building parts from chems. He gets it by building TL 80+ items. Lots of them. Over and over.
If you JUST wanted to make money, sure, build APCs, no problem.
If you wanted to level, that wont help you much at all.
Now combine in the rare part market, and I would still say the earning potential of mobbing (mob payout + loot selling + rare part selling) and the exp potential of mobbing simply embarrasses tradeskilling, and would still do so even after a small boost.
Mighty Max
06-01-04, 23:43
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE???
Thats exactly what i mean, you get a change from LoMing sthg to level to LoMing sthg else to level.
If you had read my whole post, you should have recognized that i want the LoMs deleted before any changes are made that might only destabalize the current leveling system or in its best way does NOTHING.
PvM levelling is the only way to get rares.
I dont think thats true. Ive chars on some servers i dont play regular (only when mine is behaving weird) which cant kill any MoB thats dropping Rares. And i still own Parts with him. He is called a tradeskiller because he used to trade.
And i can easyly trade and make a win in Neocron (trading with players only) the only thing you need is time and some skills to show your opponent that he wants your stuff more then you his.
yeah, they do need to get a bug exp boost from tradskilling.
Bah, I disagree with most written here cos I think it is ok like it is now.*
1) LOMs
LOMs are just fine.
Maybe u don't, but I do remember misaligned points hell in Diablo2. What all newbs should do with their pistol-tanks, meele-spys or cst-monks? Reroll? I'd rather look for less frustrating game in that case. What about resists tweaking? Changing skills to overcame negative issues of weapon you are curently using? To specialize against current enemy? What? Reroll every 3 weeks? And changing specialisation is ok, I find it logical that master rifler easier became good pistolero than just-rerolled-n00b.
2) Rising int through shooting etc
Pay attention to fact that NC is stat-, not skill-based. You request changing of system that is foundation of whole gameplay, isn't that FUCKING BIT too much? Write a game of your own, that would be easier and faster.
3) Small trader exp.
- Trades are safe. Period. It doesn't requre any skills to avoid death in plaza1. When you know expolits how to kill mobs without being hit once, it is still some kind of game knowledge. Staying in safe zones isn't.
- Traders get cash, fighters get exp.
- Many more fighters are needed than traders. That is most important, do any of you imagine world with 1/1 fighters/traders ratio? So playing trader HAS to be alot harder than kiling mobs.
- Neocron is combat-oriented. Learn how to live with it. Or die.
- Judging from my experience, high level isn't needed as much as personal reliability. So even 100/100 your "let-me-relog" traders won't get reputation that a reliable and honest uncapped will.
If you don't know how to level a trader, I'll tell you. Leech team exp. What? You don't have friends to let you leech? If you don't have friends, what kind of trader are you ? That is what trader makes his living from : others.
There is only one small thing I would change: team exp should be based on both ranks, 'OR' based. That's all to make traders live easy and make 100% pure traders possible.
Don't worry, 1.5 year ago I was a whining sissy like you are. But finally I accomodated. It is possible.
So adapt to the wolrd, 'coz world won't adapt to you.
*I'm not KK fanboi and my agree with KK is limited to trading exp and LOMs
superfresh
07-01-04, 16:25
Originally posted by Agent L
Bah, I disagree with most written here cos I think it is ok like it is now.*
1) LOMs
LOMs are just fine...
2) Rising int through shooting etc
Pay attention to fact that NC is stat-, not skill-based. You request changing of system that is foundation of whole gameplay, isn't that FUCKING BIT too much? Write a game of your own, that would be easier and faster.
3) Small trader exp.
- Trades are safe. Period. It doesn't requre any skills to avoid death in plaza1. When you know expolits how to kill mobs without being hit once, it is still some kind of game knowledge. Staying in safe zones isn't.
- Traders get cash, fighters get exp.
- Many more fighters are needed than traders. That is most important, do any of you imagine world with 1/1 fighters/traders ratio? So playing trader HAS to be alot harder than kiling mobs.
- Neocron is combat-oriented. Learn how to live with it. Or die.
- Judging from my experience, high level isn't needed as much as personal reliability. So even 100/100 your "let-me-relog" traders won't get reputation that a reliable and honest uncapped will.
If you don't know how to level a trader, I'll tell you. Leech team exp. What? You don't have friends to let you leech? If you don't have friends, what kind of trader are you ? That is what trader makes his living from : others.
Don't worry, 1.5 year ago I was a whining sissy like you are. But finally I accomodated. It is possible.
So adapt to the wolrd, 'coz world won't adapt to you.
1) LOMs are not fine IMO. If I want to cap a tradeskill, and I do, I am going to LOM one way or another, either from combat to tradeskilling or tradeskill to combat to finish off the exp. So I am FORCED to LOM. As mentioned in a different thread, I don't mind the penalty so much as that I have to babysit my character while he does it.
2) I could be wrong, but I've heard there was a time when tradeskilling gave more exp. I can't imagine bumping up the current system slightly would be that demanding if the developers thought it fit to do so.
3) Trades are safe, yes. And as was said earlier, PvM is safe too. If you get hurt or die, you level CON, and a PPU or poker will put you back on the hunt. Most players don't die hunting these days anyway, unless its in the caves or MC5 where there are ample PPUs. Tradeskilling is also a timesink. Tradeskillers sit in the Plaza to service people such as yourself. I can't imagine ANYONE in this game has an aversion to shooting mobs. You simply create a tradeskiller to acheive a different end.
-Traders get more cash? I get way more money killing firemobs over time than tradeskilling.
-Many more fighters are needed than tradeskillers? Are you serious? You stood around the plaza lately?
-Yes Neocron is combat oriented. Where do you get your weapons BTW?
-For a couple of particular skills, more is better.
-Leeching is tacky. If I'm going to hunt, I'm going to shoot. If I'm going to tradeskill, well...
-Thanks for the tips. I had no idea how to level my characters. :rolleyes:
As I originally mentioned, my other 3 characters are combat. Neither myself nor anyone I know of is "afraid" of killing mobs in any video game. But its a process I've already gone through and I think tradeskillers are JUST as important as combat characters.
If you disagree then go poke yourself.
1) Safe I meant = you can read a book and click form time to time. Or run a bot. Or hire little brother. Or whatever. But the game does not require you to react.
Death is some kind of penalty, time at last.
2) I was talking about distinguishing trade INT exp from combat INT exp.
3)
cash - can you do 18M daily with 2 chars? I can.
time - I'm in plaza about 3-5 hrs daily. Since I started playing NC. I see most ppl aren't reading my adverts, or (anti CA) are afraid to come to citycoms. Thats the problem that ppl don't want to seek service, they want to be served.
And I see most so-called-traders coming for 20mins and then leaving, cos noone is in atm.
I had problems in leveling, but I found a solution and reached 96 INT in few weeks. I could do more, but I'm too lazy.
I haven't mentioned, I had combat character once. Played on another server about month, and returned to Pluto.
I'm not sure, beacuse I never played on multichar, but isn't it this way : there are many traders, but most ppl log on them only to perform a task and then log off?
Sure I'll poke myself, TL 131 roxx :D
hudsonbeck
07-01-04, 17:07
@Agent L
I wont waste my time replying too much because it Would be a "waste of time."
Anyone who knows how the game works and has been playing for a while knows that most of what you said is worthless dribble. (easier to create a new game…laf) edit/ i saw ur register date, and being a member of the forum since 09/02 doesn’t automatically make you knowledgeable ;)
"Leech?"
Well.. A true tradeskiller (pure) has a combat rank at about 1
Please tell me how someone with that rank can "leech" xp?
What you said was just flaming a very good and well thought out thread. It is ok to disagree, but please come back with intelligent argument.
Insinuating that he has no friends is pretty funny. I know all of his characters and i guarantee that anyone of his characters is better known than most.
in regards to your insults (calling him a whinny sissy). Please grow up.
Hudson
/edit2
Originally posted by Agent L
Sure I'll poke myself, TL 131 roxx :D
are u bragging cause i know the character that Superfresh is talking about... and poke TL131... :lol:
I will stop with the bait... You just pissed me off and its kinda early here.
@hudsonbeck
combat rank1 - yes that was the only thing I want to change.
However even now you can sacrifice a bit of dex to grab a Pain Easer, with ppu that aint that hard.
rewriting code : I was refferring only to one thing here : sepearation of combat exp from trading exp. Nothing more. Replying to some earlier post in this thread.
Yeah, I'm sorry about that "no friends" and "sissy" things. I am trader all the time and all the time I see ppl wanting to make theirs mules leveling even easier.
Leveling was much easier in beta, there were more players and even then lot of ppl were complaining about lack of traders. So I KNOW that will not solve the problem.
About TL131 I was referring only to my char, Dr Quinn(Pluto).
IMP is her primary skill all the time I play NC.
If you want to know I can explain you why she has IMP 131. (147 with buff afaik)
about flaming : NOW it is, ur post and mine. No arguments, just personal.
hudsonbeck
07-01-04, 17:49
You seem like a nice guy and now i feel all warm and fuzzy inside:D
I think Superfresh is mainly concerned with teh fact that his poker/repairer has never died (not once), has never shot a weapon, and he was lead to believe that he could be _just_ as viable as a tradskiller as a warrior is... yes, he is definately doing well, but there is honestly zero chance of him ever caping as a pure tradeskiller.
Hudson
/edit:D it is hard to resist a little poke here and there;)
Well, there is 0 chance for him. Trader exp is impossible to balance because it will either be to low for "normal" traders just standing in p1 and shouting adverts or too high for power tradeskillers like me, who makes zilions of TL80-100 bluprints daily. (a second without word "construction" in lower right is a second lost : )
hudsonbeck
07-01-04, 18:16
that is true and a very good point.
I just dont see how someone can spend that much time building troup carriers (assuming thats what you are doing;) )
Hudson
Originally posted by Mighty Max
I dont think thats true. Ive chars on some servers i dont play regular (only when mine is behaving weird) which cant kill any MoB thats dropping Rares. And i still own Parts with him. He is called a tradeskiller because he used to trade.LOL. The point is that SOMEONE had to KILL A MOB in order to introduce that part into the game. I wasnt saying that a runner will never own a tech part unless they kill a mob to get it. :rolleyes: Oh, and a tradeskiller is named that because he has a trade... an occupation... not because he trades items. You are confusing a trader with a tradeskiller.
--
Even if LOMs are left in tradeskills still need a huge boost. People will spend hours just pressing their mouse button, firing their weapon or spell, while a PPU heals them (or not), clearing out the El Farid pits, or snake graves, or the launcher pit, and just get insane amounts of experience (i have earned as a high level tank over 1 mil Str exp before in one trip into the Chaos Caves- thats 1 million experience in way less than an hour) yet they freak out when a pure tradeskillers wants to earn a little more experience building the weapons they use. :mad:
Its okay for them to use an fusion cannon to attack 15 snakes at once and level like apeshit, but you cant get any decent amount of experience building that gun for them.
Mighty Max
08-01-04, 00:42
removed since it wasnt very nice
Greets
MM
I just rectivated my account today and found a whole crapload of new things to learn, the LoM pills being one of them things, they work pretty ok i think, specially when its so easy to click the wrong skill when you are to raise one. Do them windows and buttons has to be sooo small?
Anyhow, after reading up some on this and so on I do feel it is kinda awkward that people lvl combat and then later lom to crafter, i also realise it is very hard to balance these things as they use the same skill, (INT). Of course psi monks should lvl INT pretty fast, even weaponlore should give you a few XP, and as it is both faster and cheaper to kill TL100 (or the equivalent in regards to items) mobs then it is to make TL100 items this is bound to lvl that skill faster.
Now here is my little suggestion.
Why not make this a little bit like AC2, were you get a minute percentage for every XP gained by the item you made? Dont need to be much, like 0.1% or so, it could still add up, and the people that makes a lot of items for the community would benefit from it. And it would prolly make the lomming less of a problem as you need to be pretty good and persistent crafter to gain anything from a system like this. And it would make it possible to reach them last INT lvl's..
Just a thought, as it migth be way easier then to seperate the tradeskills from the combat skillsets.
Maker of Stuff (back from the grave)
And Hello DR Quinn, nice to see ya again :)
I don't want to derail the topic, but ppu's are in the same boat. At least tradeskillers can level up to at least midlvl or maybe more without ever killing. A ppu receives a tiny bit of exp for healing someone, nothing else. The only way we can gain exp is mooching off of a team.
Neocron just isn't designed to handle a character that can't kill, the game assumes you will participate in combat, wether it's pvp or pvm. As a tradeskiller, if you attempt to level soly off tradeskills, you will hit a cap at somewhere between Int 70-80. You literaly can not gain leveles soly off tradeskills anymore. Your exp will be reset back a little bit, so you'll never reach enough to raise your level. To advance you must go kill a mob, you'll gain a level instantly and then you can return to tradeskilling. My guess is that spies used to cap at 80int a long time ago, probably when tradeskills were first made. So they were built expecting you to stop at Int80. I assume this is yet another bug that hasn't gotten kk's attention yet, or isn't important enough.
There is an even more fundimental problem with tradeskillers though. They are simply not fun to play for any length of time. People who stay tradeskillers for a long time, most likely have a combat alt character. They can go have fun with combat to take a break from tradeskilling. 95% of the tradeskillers are alts themselves. On a one char server this is definitly true, almost noone would invest all their time in a tradeskiller. The endgame is horrible.
LoM's were introduced as a temporary fix because of drastic changes patches were causing with players. To expect us to delete and reroll a character we spent months on, just because kk adjusted requirements or stats in a patch is not acceptable. When they were introduced the assumption was that they were going to removed with the next patch or maybe the patch after that. I think they even said so. LoM's were certainly not supposed to be a feature in Neocron, but pretty soon they were.
It's hard to say what should be done about them. Until KK stops altering gameplay enough that it renders our characters useless, LoM's should stay. Yet at the same time they hurt the game. They coverup imbalances and problems that would be obvious otherwise. For example tradeskillers are the worst LoM abusers because they have so many problems. The case could be made that if they removed LoM's then tradeskillers might actualy have more of their problems fixed, because kk couldn't help but notice noone playing tradeskillers anymore. When first introduced LoM's let tradeskillers easily switch between tradeskill and combat. So they could gain levels by killing mobs or participate in pvp, then settle down in Neocron and work as a tradeskiller. Tradeskillers were fairly popular and there were lots of them back then. Then kk introduced severe restrictions to LoM's. Suddenly you actualy had to live with your chosen profession. Tradeskillers vanished within a few weeks, down do some diehards and alts. They improved LoM's a little and there was a resurgence, but there are still almost no pure tradeskillers that aren't alts.
Basicly the fact that we can LoM makes up for problems kk would otherwise have to fix.
yer, should be slightly easyer on PPUs when it comes to XP
But Tradeskillers aught to get lots more XP than they currently do.
BB
Neocron has a great crafting system, better then most and only surpassed by Horizons really, i just can not belielve they invented that as an afterthougth.
They put a lot of time in this system, or so I think, would be very wierd and strange if they didnt follow up on it.
Maker
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