View Full Version : Class Hoppers get lost
I just want to say thus:
People who are turning to PEs as the next "monk" because they think that PEs are both uber and easy to set up can go shove themselves and go roll a tank or monk. I'm pissed off with people coming onto the PE class being noobs and not knowing how to set one up then stealthing around like mad PISSING PEOPLE OFF... now it looks like we are going to be nerfed by the whinging masses on these god-forsaken forums. Well I hope you will be fucking happy when PEs are nerfed and you go back to your tanks with a rain of destruction in your wake... I bet that the real monks are pretty happy atm, loosing all the nooblets onto the PE class and I don't blame them at all.
PEs are the hardest class to setup. There is no question in that.... so when someone does manage to get a good setup he goes round kills some people and then the whole fucking class has to suffer becaues of the people he killed thinking that that is the norm for ALL PEs... well its not. I know so many PEs who have arseshite setups, I know PEs who have good setups but are just shit at PvP (like me). There are very few PEs who have both good setups and good skills... but the entire class is judged on these few because of the ignorance of the rest of the community.
I would also like to point out that I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever with people who make a PE because they actually want to play them properly and not just powerlevel them up in three days to be uber in PvP, use someone elses setup, having no skill then stealthing around. So many people I have met said to me that the game is shit and boring.... on asking how long it took them to level up their characters they say about a week each.... right.... Do you not see the connection here, isn't it somewhat hypocritical to say that the game is boring when you MAKE it boring by going to the same leveling spots, powerleveling with a PPU up your arse and everything like that. Alot of people only ever see MB, CRP, Aggie Cellars, Sewers and Plaza whilst leveling. FFS get a clue and chill out.
Also I would like to point at my post count and say how uber 1337 I am.Ta.
___T-X____
03-01-04, 16:57
who took the jam out of your donut
Vampire222
03-01-04, 17:00
*cough* nerf pe *cough*
Dribble Joy
03-01-04, 17:01
Same can be said about all the monkehs with monkehs.
CRAIG DIGGERS
03-01-04, 17:07
Originally posted by ___T-X____
who took the jam out of your donut
Me did :p
Jummie :D
It's the herd mentality... people are like that, damn sheep.
Was like it with tanks, and monks, I just hope that it doesn't happen to PEs :(
Originally posted by Judge
...PEs are the hardest class to setup. There is no question in that.... so when someone does manage to get a good setup he goes round kills some people and then the whole fucking class has to suffer becaues of the people he killed thinking that that is the norm for ALL PEs... well its not.
Yeeehhh!! Welcome to nerfville.. population you!
Exact same argument Monks were saying and people like yourself said otherwise.. Well the herd has spoken, its the PE next up for nerf bat. :p
Eledhbrant
03-01-04, 17:26
I made a tank in the middle of monkocron, go me :D
I blame multicharacter servers :P
nerf the tank and their devourer ^^
if we are nerfed on stealth I want Tank to be killable again^^
oh yes i know... most tanks are killable...
but few of them are absolutely unstoppable..
like the PEs that the people talk about in reference to ask a nerf.
I have made a PE that is only level 43 for now... I don't have stealth... and I can defend myself without.
If there's a nerf stealth for PE the first runner type that will suffer of this will be PE pistol.
In my opinion, PE are very hard to play. like Spies.
I know one spy that can kill tanks, pe and monks...
cause he is very good at pvp.
He has done a gentank, same result... many corpse on his way...
Now he tries an APU... i think it will be the same.
But in his opinion the Tank is the most powerful character.. not the PE ^^
And I think too.
elitest class wankoids, get lost.
Please, what the hell right has a person got to dictate how another runner should play the game?
I always played a tank......not easy to setup properly.....so fuck you.....
i agree though the tits that follow the trend need to GET A FUCKING LIFE
Originally posted by Oath
I always played a tank......not easy to setup properly.....so fuck you.....
:lol:
mm... maybe my poor english has not translate my idea :)
I DO NOT WANT ANY MORE NERF ^^
if I have talked about tanks it is only because I find them most powerful than a PE...
:angel:
Believe me. To use Stealth 2 you have to spend all your implants into DEX. It raise your defense cause you have to use Duranit or inquisition 2 instead of inquisition or duranite 3.
Simple... nerf the PE stealth I return back to my "tank" setup with my Pe. I won't stealth, but I will be more resistant.
If I have used stealth (with my capped PE on venus) it is because I have lommed to pistol. I can't imagine a PE pistol without the stealth 1 and for some stealth 2. 8|
(or maybe I will be bored if this nerf happen and will be too strong I would roll back to a gentank^^ )
MayhemMike
03-01-04, 18:25
Heh, i made my PE some time ago, i played him alittle last night and it owns apus :pppp. (MY PE DOESN'T USE STEALTH NIBBISH)
I like my tank the most tho. I hardly play my APU on saturn.
Tank, Pe, Apu.
Thats the win
im not to keen on PEs, or Tanks im a monk/spy person, and i've just went back to my old class a few weeks ago TEH SPY!111oneone, i'll prob make a tank and a pe, but just to try one, and if anyone moans i jumped on the monkocron band wagon, i was a monk b4 that took off :P
~T
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
I made a tank in the middle of monkocron, go me :D
I made a monk in the middle of tankocron, go me :D
I pwn you all!
Elison Muerte - Created 8th January 2003 :D
I've always had a tank ever since i played neocron.
in fact, through most of my beta 4 experience, i was a tank.
since i started playing retail in september, ive had a tank.
ive also had a PE
ive wanted an apu, but my clan needs my ppu.
then theres my trade skiller spy.
so no apu for me :(
well, i got one on uranus at least ^_^
me thinkin of makin an apu, a hybrid, and a ppu on uranus, then my fourth char is a trade skiller.
Dribble Joy
03-01-04, 20:17
I have been a PE for over a year. Ie. when I started NC.
i think its more ppl seeing that PPUs are a little boring now and APUs got old so people are trying out new classes.... you see a hell of a lot more n00b tanks about now as well.
Originally posted by Gestra
elitest class wankoids, get lost.
Please, what the hell right has a person got to dictate how another runner should play the game?
How about a nice bag of STFU.
I'm working on a PE (who will not be using stealth, thank you very much) right now, but it's because I want a rifler and already have a spy. Sure there are sheep, but who the hell are you to judge the motivations of someone you've never even met?
So I'm with Gestra on this one.
PEs are the hardest class to setup.
:rolleyes: PEs have something in abundance: options. There are many ways to go with a PE (PEs also get more bang for their buck out of drugs than do any other class). The fact that there are a few good PEs and a lot of shit ones doesn't impress me. There's even fewer good spies and way more shitty ones (plus ones like me with decent setups that can't hit the broad side of a barn).
Tanks and monks? Unless you're gonna go do something off the wall (like MayhemMike's RoG tank <3), there are only a very few things you can do with them.
The fact that they have multiple options is not the point. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE ARGUMENT. The point was that they are the HARDEST class to set up. The reason why tanks are easyer to set up is BECAUSE they have less options.
Secondly... I'm not judging their motivations I'm telling them to get the fuck away from my class if all they want to be is uber in PvP.
Originally posted by Judge
IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE ARGUMENT.
I did read the argument. No need to be an obnoxious turd.
You have to make more choices when setting up a PE. You do not have to make harder choices. A combat spy's dex and con setups often balance on a single point (something many PEs crow about), and it's vital for a tank to have a well-balanced con setup since they can't just stealth away from poison.
It's actually easier to set up a non-cookie PE than it is to make a particularly unique spy or tank.
Originally posted by Morris
I did read the argument. No need to be an obnoxious turd.
Oh I'm so sorry. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Morris
You have to make more choices when setting up a PE. You do not have to make harder choices. A combat spy's dex and con setups often balance on a single point (something many PEs crow about), and it's vital for a tank to have a well-balanced con setup since they can't just stealth away from poison.
Firstly, yes both PEs Con and Dex can often rest upon a single point. Psi setup is also incredibly important to a good PE, so the right setup there kind of helps too. Secondly, a tank has to work on his Con setup.... and what else? Erm Str? Nope... everything in HC or Melee anything left over (in the case of Melee) put into transport or resist force. Dex? Nope... they have 70 levels in which they don't need much. Int? lol Psi? They have ten levels... its not that hard to mess up. Thirdly, stealthing away from poison is in most cases a very bad idea... unless you have a heal running first. Why? Because 4 or more stacks of poison can do alot of damage over the 10 seconds you are stealthed for.
Originally posted by Morris
It's actually easier to set up a non-cookie PE than it is to make a particularly unique spy or tank.
We were talking about non-cookie cutter? Really, no-one told me... oh wait its my thread. I was talking about PvP setups because as I said before if you had read what I was talking about they are making PEs to be uber. Non-cookie cutter classes are not as uber as proper PvP setups, thus they are not non-cookie cutter setups and thus we were not talking about non-cookie cutter setups. mmkay?
why would a PE need a nerf
as far as im concerned PE is good for two things:
- dueling
- solo pking
they are 100% self reliant and are probably the best dueling class in the game atm if you set them up properly
they aren't that good tho...for things like rare farming and op fights...tanks and monks take the cake here
Originally posted by Omnituens
I made a monk in the middle of tankocron, go me :D
i was a monk during tankocron, and a tank during monkocron:p
i have a capped pistol pe, 'Kal Jericho' which was quite difficult to set up but who is performing well now (though i still need more practise),
a high(ish) level CS tank,'Death Jester' set up reasonably, he does his job, but doesn't stand up to anyone with a better setup
a high level ppu 'Arien Amil-Isirius' (and yes i did start it in the middle of monk'o'cron), i soon got bored of playing this char though and have only gone back to it recently, it is quite well set up, required little effort and has done its job well so far.
out of my 3 chars the one i play best on is my ppu easily, it is also the char i have played least (by a long margin), it is not cause of 'uber skill', its just because it is an easier class to setup and play (of course this isnt saying monks are a simple class, or that i am a great monk, should i put all my effort into training and improving my setup i would still probally not match the best of the class).
My second best char is my private eye, i leveled him up in the middle of monk'o'cron (after i got bored of my ppu) with the intention of pvp, i have trained a lot in nf and spent countless hours working my setup to get the most out of it, i have also fought more opp wars on this char than either of my others, i still do not match the best of the class, (thats not saying im not good ;) ) but there is a long way for me to go yet.
My H-C tank is my first char, and my most played char, i grew up on him and spent months leveling him, and had the time of my life, i was a newb back then, and didnt really know what made a good template, or train mush at fighting(other than clan trips to nf). i recently optimized his template and trained a lot more on him, i didnt do badly, but i couldnt beat anyone half decent, in a team however, i could put myself to much more use than my PE.
now from my experiance of fighting as and against those 3 classes, im my oppinion, the order of difficulty to setup and play the classes goes like this (3 being easiest).
3. monk, just because its easy doesnt mean its not fun, recently i've had a LOT of fun on my PPU, and i belive this is why so many people rushed to the class.
2. Pistols Private Eye, reasonably hard to set up, easy to cap (con can be a bugger), and hard to master, (easy to grasp at first however). A fun class to play from start to finish, and a good solo player at that too, i can see why people would run to this class,
A) easy to cap
B) easy to get the hang of
C) fares well alone
3. H-C Tank, an awesome force when played and set up well, which should be feared by all who meet them, however, they are hard to cap, and hard to set up (as shelter acts as a kind of buffer for badly set up PE's) there are a lot of points to deal with, and though there is only really one way to set it up, there is a hugh difference between a well set up and a poorly set up tank.
Also, imo a tank is that hardest class to play, get it right though and you are a force not to be messed with (I'm not :lol: ), overall a specialists choise, good but hard, also a great teamplayer.
i have nothing against how people want to play or what class they choose, i just dont like people calling nerf because of the inexperianced, i stealthed around all the time when i was a noob, now i only ever use it to 1. escape certian death 2. get out of the underground without being ganked. And anyway, if they stealth around all the time that cant be a threat to you can they, ignore em and just scare em off with a few shots when they show their heads, personally i'd rather fight a stealthing PE than a CS tank (*me scared of tanks* all oaths fault :p )
my 2 cents
robdekoning
03-01-04, 22:00
It's like your saying ''ONLY PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO SETUP A PE, AND WHO KNOW HOW TO PLAY IT CAN MAKE A PE''
Dude, who fucking cares, everyone is free to make the class they want. If they feel like making a pe and stealth around like a madman cause thats what they want, then so be it. Who cares really, it's not that they can shoot when they are stealthed or something. Most people who start a PE have no idea how to setup one. So they will stay noob pe's for..say like 2a3 months? well...easy targets then, except for the stealth, but like i said before, they cant hit u too. I don't know what ur really afraid of, the fact that there are too many noob pe's running around stealthing or the fact that they will be uber someday
Dribble Joy
03-01-04, 22:05
I think what Judge is trying to get at, is that you should pick a class to play and play it because you like the class (for whatever reason) and not to glory seek about the classes to be the best in PvP.
Look at monk-O-cron, how many people are playing monks because they really like monks. Same with Tank-O-cron.
If you can beat the best class with the worst, whos the better player?
I have to agree. I rolled a PE recently for my NC comeback character, as far as I am concerned it's a good laugh and definitely has a niche but is harder to make a good rather than just plain cool character with.
if this seems like a lame message sorry, im using a on-screen click-keyboard cos I broke my real one trying to clean it :rolleyes:
Mingoo
Originally posted by Judge
Oh I'm so sorry. :rolleyes:
EDIT: I will be civil.
We were talking about non-cookie cutter? Really, no-one told me... oh wait its my thread. I was talking about PvP setups because as I said before if you had read what I was talking about they are making PEs to be uber. Non-cookie cutter classes are not as uber as proper PvP setups, thus they are not non-cookie cutter setups and thus we were not talking about non-cookie cutter setups. mmkay?
I am talking about viable PvP setups as well. SF/(Ball3 or SA)/PPR/(MOVEON or Dist3) + Exp Reflex 4 are not a PE's only option, especially if you're willing to give up stealth. The possible permutation of implants and weapons for a tank or combat spy is much, much lower. That's the beauty of the PE class.
People wanna be "teh ubar?" Let 'em. They're the ones missing out.
Originally posted by g0rt
why would a PE need a nerf
as far as im concerned PE is good for two things:
- dueling
- solo pking
they are 100% self reliant and are probably the best dueling class in the game atm if you set them up properly
they aren't that good tho...for things like rare farming and op fights...tanks and monks take the cake here
I'm agreeing with g0rt... /me goes to look for flying pigs or a frozen over hell
People wanna be "teh ubar?" Let 'em. They're the ones missing out.
agreed, 100%, i tryed jumping on the bandwagon in monk'o'cron, but hated it, i much prefer being the class i enjoy most, even if it isn't the best for pvp/pvm/opp wars/whatever people want to do
Originally posted by Kal
agreed, 100%, i tryed jumping on the bandwagon in monk'o'cron, but hated it, i much prefer being the class i enjoy most, even if it isn't the best for pvp/pvm/opp wars/whatever people want to do
i agree with that, i was a monk in the old days cant remember why but i was, then when monks started popping up all over the place, i started a tank(and a spy) and found out that the tank class was my favourite class, and so im normally on my tank nowadays.
recently tried my PE, though not capped cons and ive got a shitty pain easer so i cant really say much about them being overpowered or anything like that.
in all the classes ive had with PEs upuntil i lost my skills(dont ask)recently, it was rare id lose to PEs, so i dont think they are overpowered, i just think skill less people cant handle being killed bysomeone.
my PE thread was mistaken as a nerf the PE thread for somereason, but i dont see any reason for the PE themselves to be nerfed.
tbh with all the skill manager programs about now, i dont think PEs are that hard to set up anymore, maybe once upon a time when non of them were about and only a few people had 1/2 a clue how to set them up, but now anyone get get themselves a good PE, if they but some time in to the setup and level up to the cap, as PEs really need to cap before being 100% PvPable.
ill be dismayed if PEs get a nerf cos they dont need one, and my tank has good fights with PEs and tanks(fuck monks)if PEs nerfed means id only get good fights from tanks or the top 1% of PEs
:(
problem is alot of peeps dont know how to setup. and i repeat in many forums many vets still havnt met the right crew or havnt take the time to actually figure out the best setup and take so much damage.
i still cant beleive tanks take 180 damage still at cap. reason because thay say thay r uber fast. with 120/120 ath/agl i laugh alot about this becuase theirs a nerf and u may out run me a little but i still am able to keep up.
my tank can kill even the best of pes if i try half the time i dont try anymore. and whne i fight a uber pe monk tank or spy off guard am screwed. i know am uber like hell but i do die to even single players. even if i hav a record of killing 5 or more peeps at once. with out ppu or crew. now u say wow u r uber. i am also killed from random nubs that i know r their and i even ambush and die.
also my pe is uber and those that r starting to know who i am on my pe, i realize it is uber. but thay hav killed me to because i pk more on my pe then my tank. even at 1v1 battles from nub tanks and monks.
and i can honestly say i hav one of the best setups on all my chars. wut it comes down to is skill or setup's
most pe's that kill me stealth and rolh. when u get even half life thay run and stealth striaght of the bat and try to get u next round after heal and attack u when ur not ready. thay repeat this until u r deid. so when thay stleath and u heal with tank heal ur goin to die eventually after the pe eat u alive.
Look, the point was that I don't care if people who actually want to play the class, and now just be uber can or can't set up a PE properly, its the fact that people who come over to be uber run around like headless chickens stealthing like mad. People who actually want to play the class take a longer time to level up the char and so work to a better setup at the end and have more experience with the character. There is nothing wrong with stealth, its just that these idiots are using it far too much, when it isn't necessary and now its going to get nerfed and the uber class hoppers are going to go back to tanks and monks once they got the PE nerfed.
I played a PE since day one, and i TOTALLY agree with Judge.
Infact, ive said this a million times.
The only reason i wanted rid of PE PA was so that all those noob PE's would realise what its like to play a PE without it, and how hard they WERE to setup.
PE'o'Cron doesnt quite have the same ring to it.
[SP]Ostrich
04-01-04, 13:40
i made an apu... wellll before monkacron... and levelled her/him ( i had to two monks split between 3 people) verrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly....
capped psi about 2 weeks ago :D
i had a pe on pluto back in the day, and a pe on uranus lately...
edit: 2 pe's ;)
Yeah, I was a psi (hybrid i think) from late beta to last christmas, then they became popular and I went spy for about 6 months (maybe slightly more). Then i grew bored of my spy and couldn't be bothered to wait any longer for hacknet, PA and other such stuff so I went PE (a class I'd never really tried).
It's cool... You can do lots of things others can't. But I don't stealth because I drive, use non-tech pistols, repair and run fast. I think perhaps the main problem here is that a stealthing spy can be ripped open when they are exposed, but a PE has time to use a decent heal and then stealth without much skill.
My H-C/P-C combat hovertec using PE may not be DECENT in PvP, but he's a laugh and a good skim-by and tear-open-a-monk type of character.
PEs are cool but to all those who just want to be quick levellers, just because all stats raise from team XP doesn't mean they level quickly and strongly. Play a psi if thats your bag because they level the stats that MATTER for their PvPness quite quickly both in a team and out of a team.
:)
Mingoo
i agree with judge here, anybody who wants to play a PE should do so, great for u, but if you want to play a PE simply because you
think that's the class to be right now, then dont.
No matter what class you play you should play it because it's most fun for you and not because you saw someone with that class take down three guys at the same time.
About resist setup, no class is easy to setup, yes you may get a pretty good resist, but there is a big difference between pretty good and truly uber.
Ever since retail i have been playing my PE as my main char, i also have a spy/tank/monk that i play from time to time but my PE has always been my main char and always will be.
And about stealth, i dont even want to get into that, stealth should be spy only. period. i used to use stealth when it was new but i dropped it and now that i think about it, I myself and everybody i know abused the stealth like hell, i remember whenever i fought another PE nobody ever died... The fight laster untill one side got bored and lef :rolleyes:
My 2 cents
//Radium
nerf the tank and their devourer ^^
I really wish people would stop calling to nerf the devourer, sure it's powerful, but it has a tiny range and aims like shit, it really isnt hard - if you see a tank flaming away, keep your distance, move around, you'll have him down in no time and he wont even hit you. The flamethrower on wolfenstein is extremely powerful, but few use it online because it is hard to kill anyone with it cos they all KEEP THEIR DISTANCE and shoot you from out of its range. I suggest you do likewise. Unless you're a melee tank :lol:
Cliffraiser
04-01-04, 16:03
tbh, PEs shouldnt be nerfed, most of them are piss weak, theres only a few that are good.
Originally posted by Cliffraiser
tbh, PEs shouldnt be nerfed, most of them are piss weak, theres only a few that are good.
It actually doesnt matter if most of them are piss weak or not, it is usually always about the best ones as they show how good a class really is...
Besides, I dont think PEs will get a nerf just because our band wagon jumpers are starting to make PEs. PE is a quite good balanced class and this is known for quite a time. I mean think about it: what would one want to nerf on a PE?
The Dev is fine... spec some poison dumbass, it can be done easily....
I played a PE all through beta and I've had my current PE since about April, and for a long time I was the only PE on pluto that didn't wear PE PA, but know Kramer and Jest have also forsaken the evil giant dildo suit :)
Cliffraiser
04-01-04, 18:17
Originally posted by Lucjan
It actually doesnt matter if most of them are piss weak or not, it is usually always about the best ones as they show how good a class really is...
Besides, I dont think PEs will get a nerf just because our band wagon jumpers are starting to make PEs. PE is a quite good balanced class and this is known for quite a time. I mean think about it: what would one want to nerf on a PE?
yes, but its like that with every class, their is always a few people with a cookie cutter setup and a godlike aim. It doesnt mean u need to nerf an entire class just cuz of a few good players. Imo PEs are the most balanced class in the game atm.
Whats wrong with being a class that wont get killed every 3 seconds. I love my PE 100x more than my spy.
1) capped in 1/8 the time
2) easier to setup with less expensive imps
3) better for PVP
4) can survive in an op war
But thats not to say that a good spy cant whoop a PE. You will just need to be capped with an SA. Which kinda takes AGES. Right now the game seem balanced to me....maybe a little boost to tanks and spies....instead of nerfing the strong classes. I like boosting more than nerfing.
Original monk
05-01-04, 12:41
i play a monk since the beginning of beta4, my mainchar is still a monk, i prefer hybrid but the nerf is harsh...
i will still play monk when no-one plays it anymore, why ? cause i like em :P there my roots :)
i also like playing spy's :P i love capping a spy's dex and int :) and they can do so much coowl stuff :)
i have a PE on uranus and its fun to play with but i dont want one on saturn, i prefer an extra monk then hehe, or an extra spy :)
and classes are pretty balanced atm: except pe's: make stealth SPY-only OR make blessed spells psi only ...
:)
ow yeah and nerf the HL damage slightly (it has nice rof anyway) and BOOST the fire-spells especially FA !!!! :)
enjoy playing
and yeah i hate classhoppers also
nerf the PE?
i die in the first 5 sec of an op war
how much faster will i die then? in 2 sec?
nerf the whiners instead !!!!
Original monk
05-01-04, 12:52
Originally posted by shend
nerf the whiners instead !!!!
yo shend: thats the same what i said when everyone was yelling nerf the PPU :)
btw are ya flemish or wallonië ?? im from antwerp :P
Class Hoppers get lost
so you want people who have played all vaiations of classes in this game to not post in your dumb thread ?
you are heavily biased towards the PE you have always played one.
PEs are the hardest class to setup
if have just started playing PE again and its easy as fuck, the setup is insanely easy with the gamma bones.
you where one of the people at the forefront of the Nerf calls on Tank's and Monk's.
you asked for the other nerfs now you should suffer the pain of every other class. (except spies)
A PE with stealth is very over powered in my opinion, A Pe with stealth and PA4 is even more over powered.
I truely hope PE's get hit hard, then well see who's fucking crying.
•Super|\|ova•
05-01-04, 12:54
Originally posted by Judge
I'm telling them to get the fuck away from my class
Now kids, tell me what's wrong with this sentence. :rolleyes:
Really dude, it's not your class. It's a class. Some people are just not that good so get over it. This is the worst thread in long long time.
Really dude, it's not your class. It's a class. Some people are just not that good so get over it. This is the worst thread in long long time.
Ok, this is my gripe atm and that is that PEs can stealth. PEs do not in any way need stealth. What possible reason could you give?
They're too weak? not really because they have armor and resists. They are probably the best duelling class considering they can buff themselves and heal themselves at a bloody good rate.
To spy? No thats what a spies for.
C'mon, a PE is jack of all trades. From Tanks they get resistance, from psis they get healing and buffing, some even get rezzing. From spies they get their weapons. Why oh why then do you need to give them stealth on top?
A PE does not need stealth. It can survive without stealth. It can kick some major ass without stealth. PE has health, buffs and firepower. It's like designed as a fighting machine if you make it right.
A spy needs stealth. A spy can survive nada...only 1 in 50 actually have a good resistant spy. No matter what you throw against a spy, it will drop faster than anything else except maybe an APU.
Take away the stealth and i'm fine. Too many PEs are becoming weak with their reliance on stealths. I can remember when a PE could haul some major ass with a judge and could take so many hits because of their combination of their best. Not because they can run away.
Spies, APUs, PPUs, Tanks=combination fighters
PE=solo fighter
taking a PE into an OP war is first off not smart but it isn't stupid. As a guerilla tactic or distraction tactic its good but it doesn't fulfill any of the major roles needed in an OP war.
PEs atm are fine other than that stealth.
I have a PE, but I gotta say, I will not be using stealth with him. Takes the fun outta the game for me. I had a high lvl Spy that used Stealth 3 and that got boring as hell - can't imagine what it will be like on a PE now.
Me? I'm having a shitload of fun with my Melee Tank and will be keeping him. I also have a mid lvl PPU who who I will be lvling as sson as I get off the tank :D
But I gotta agree - a Pistol PE with Stealth is a bitch to try and fight against. In 10 seconds you can be off out of local zone, heal & buff then back for round 2. Stealth again before you die.
The way to do it (and this is for all classes apart from APU) is to carry the lowest TL Parashock spell in your QB. When you see him getting a bit low on health, just blast him once. It isn't to slow him down, it is so that you can follow the little crackly blue sparks once he goes into stealth. He comes out of stealth, and you are stood right behind him.
Punisher-X
05-01-04, 14:22
My main character is a PE, lowtech pistols. I have to say that NOTHING pisses me off more than fighting another PE with stealth. They are complete and utter pussies that stealth as soon as they know they are gonna lose. But unlike alot of spies who stealth away once or twice, and then decide they cant win and go home, these stealth totting PEs just keep on coming back and back. Its a complete waste of time, and bloody annoying too. All stealth should be spy only, PEs shouldnt even get stealth 1.
If you are a PE and NEED stealth, then please, stay home, or PvM, cuz you are simply an annoying twat in PvP.
And I agree with Judge, PEs are hard to setup, but I also find getting a good resist setup on an APU tricky too :D
It depends how long you have played the game, or a class, as the more you do, the easier it becomes i guesse.
PS Going by previous OP fights, most of the PEs in Imposing Order and the Various Tangent Clans that help them at OP wars are stealth users. Guesse those guys will be even more like canon-fodder if they remove stealth :D
Clownst0pper
05-01-04, 15:04
As G0rt said, Pe's are a self sufficiant killing machine, they rely on no one, yet that is there down fall, they are useless in OP wars unless your rifles, and even then there not too great as most people use PE, which half the time does shit all to holy buffed characters.
Ikari is and always will be for PKing and Dueling, Nothing more.
And TBH thats how I like him, Hey, I rolled a tank ages ago for OP wars. :o
Weren`t some hybrid players the same problem?
I cant judge the situation on other servers, but on jupiter we had for sure not more then 10 - 15 players who really knew how to play a hybrid around that time. All of them are still famous, and yes, they were almost unbeatable, but everyone was whining about "hybrids" as a whole being overpowerd... Noone attached importance to the fact, that hundreds of hybrids monks existed at that time... most of them were just normal players, died and dealed damage like everyone else...
In comparision to this, Private Eyes for sure are NOT overpowerd ;)
Maybe if certain people would spend more time in-game rather than crying on the forums, they could learn how to defeat a stealthing PE. I could tell you, but it is more fun to own your whiny asses.
Well, lets see.
I can't say I don't like having stealth, because I do. It adds whole new tactics to the mind of a PE, escpecially for a Rifle PE.
However, Stealth IS NOT needed. The majority of these 'uber private eyes' use it when they are about to die. Mostly as a Last Resort for escape.
Escaping once is fine, escpecially if you are out numbered by say an APU and a PPU. That has helped me many times. But being able to repeatedly stealth is cowardace imo. If your going to run, then run. If your going to die, so be it, go get poked and GR back.
PEs v Tanks 1 on 1 is fine, stealth isn't needed if you know how to fight.
PE v Monk is fine most of the time, except when PPUs are involved.
PE v Spy fine, hard competetion if range is involved, but still good.
PE v PE Would be fine if Stealth was not involved.
Originally posted by stigmata
so you want people who have played all vaiations of classes in this game to not post in your dumb thread ?
you are heavily biased towards the PE you have always played one.
Hey look someone who can't read!!!!!
I defined what I meant byt ht term "class hopper" in the thread title and it wasn't someone who had played a large variety of classes. It was someone who went to a class because it was the most uber and not because they wanted to play that class.
Originally posted by stigmata
if have just started playing PE again and its easy as fuck, the setup is insanely easy with the gamma bones.
Yes yes, thats con setup. PEs also have to setup every other skill well.
Originally posted by stigmata
you where one of the people at the forefront of the Nerf calls on Tank's and Monk's.
you asked for the other nerfs now you should suffer the pain of every other class. (except spies)
Oh yeah you DO know what you are talking about. I called for TWO things. Remove parashock and nerf APU range, thats it. I called for a fucking tank BOOST. So either get your facts straight or don't post in my thread.
Awww diddums are you sad that you can't play your monk anymore because its not the most uber character? Shame.
Originally posted by stigmata
A PE with stealth is very over powered in my opinion, A Pe with stealth and PA4 is even more over powered.
I truely hope PE's get hit hard, then well see who's fucking crying.
blah blah blah... I think someones still bitter about monk nerfs. The PE is the most balanced class in the game. Yeah I'm biased but who the fuck isn't hmmm?
Another thing, you hope we get hit and then you can see who is crying? Welll atm I would say that Tanks are crying, even though they have got their nice little rares eh? Not good enough for you? Still, since the start of retail you have been KKs favourite, its quite amusing seeing you go all maudy when the PE is best for a month. "But mummy I wanna be the uberest... waa waa waa"
Originally posted by punisher-x
My main character is a PE, lowtech pistols. I have to say that NOTHING pisses me off more than fighting another PE with stealth. They are complete and utter pussies that stealth as soon as they know they are gonna lose. But unlike alot of spies who stealth away once or twice, and then decide they cant win and go home, these stealth totting PEs just keep on coming back and back. Its a complete waste of time, and bloody annoying too. All stealth should be spy only, PEs shouldnt even get stealth 1.
If you are a PE and NEED stealth, then please, stay home, or PvM, cuz you are simply an annoying twat in PvP.
And I agree with Judge, PEs are hard to setup, but I also find getting a good resist setup on an APU tricky too
It depends how long you have played the game, or a class, as the more you do, the easier it becomes i guesse.
Look pun... we have had this conversation a huge amount of times. You are a Low tech PE, which means that you are ALOT stronger setup wise than the PEs who sacrifice valuble Dex points to put into tech combat. Thus you get more defence/offence (in your case defence) we get stealth. Now, secondly you generalise completely all PEs. Not all PEs stealth stealth stealth as much as possible. You say you don't have a problem with spies stealthing away once they know they are gonna lose? Well MOST PEs do that, its just the annoying few who have no idea how to play a PE that mainly stealth stealth stealth around, in come my request for classhoppers to fuck off.
In removing Stealth you will make all PvP PEs lowtech, the blacksun is NOT worth wasting all those points in. Well won't that be fun every PE with exactly the same setup to take part in PvP. Woot.
If PE-O-Cron happens, the resulting nerf is going to put a serious dent in my enjoyment. :(
Ive been playing my PE 'soulblade' for a year in 4 days, and I'd really hate to get nerfed after being so dedicated to it, without being called 'overpowered' :(
How can people cry Nerf PE justifiably ? We havent actually been boosted at all, Last thing we got was the PA from Aug/sept ? (unsure of that date) and no-one called us overpowered, or said anything. In fact I seem to remember a lot of mockery...
Anyway. Lets hope that doesnt happen...
I am a hightech rifler, and have been accused on some occasions of overusing my stealth, which I probably was, and I try hard not to. What no-one has EVER said to me, In the VAST amount of time between stealth's release and the monk nerf, was that I was 'overpowered' because of it.
Yes thats what happened to alot of monks who actually enjoyed playing the character for what it was... and not just for being the uberest.
Not that PEs with stealth 1 really bother me all that much (though I do think stealth 2 should incur serious penalties), but...
Originally posted by Judge
In removing Stealth you will make all PvP PEs lowtech, the blacksun is NOT worth wasting all those points in. Well won't that be fun every PE with exactly the same setup to take part in PvP. Woot.
So all the people who use the Judge, RoLH, and RoG are really only in it for the stealth? Somehow I doubt that.
Maybe I exaggerated, but it will severely cut down the numbers. All those guns are easily as good as someone who can aim well with a Libby. And now that the PE PA requires 105 instead of 100 to reach to be able to use the RoLH wihtout drugs people are going to be less inclinded to use it. Judge... well there will always be the Judge purists... but with the PE PA 4 nerf (which I wasn't against at all btw) alot of people who joined later on when PE PA came in, or who just liked the noise might well quit if stealth is gone. RoG... now well to get the RoG as a PE you have to sacrifice alot of your defence... normally in the form of replacing a PP or moveon chip with a moto or SA, and whilst stealth was a good replacement for that defence... without it I think alot of people might well be thinking of moving back to the Pain Easer... which is only marginally worse and ALOT better defence.
Originally posted by Judge
blah blah blah... I think someones still bitter about monk nerfs. The PE is the most balanced class in the game. Yeah I'm biased but who the fuck isn't hmmm?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by stigmata
My main character is a PE, lowtech pistols. I have to say that NOTHING pisses me off more than fighting another PE with stealth. They are complete and utter pussies that stealth as soon as they know they are gonna lose. But unlike alot of spies who stealth away once or twice, and then decide they cant win and go home, these stealth totting PEs just keep on coming back and back. Its a complete waste of time, and bloody annoying too. All stealth should be spy only, PEs shouldnt even get stealth 1.
If you are a PE and NEED stealth, then please, stay home, or PvM, cuz you are simply an annoying twat in PvP.
And I agree with Judge, PEs are hard to setup, but I also find getting a good resist setup on an APU tricky too
It depends how long you have played the game, or a class, as the more you do, the easier it becomes i guesse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look pun... we have had this conversation a huge amount of times. You are a Low tech PE, which means that you are ALOT stronger setup wise than the PEs who sacrifice valuble Dex points to put into tech combat. Thus you get more defence/offence (in your case defence) we get stealth. Now, secondly you generalise completely all PEs. Not all PEs stealth stealth stealth as much as possible. You say you don't have a problem with spies stealthing away once they know they are gonna lose? Well MOST PEs do that, its just the annoying few who have no idea how to play a PE that mainly stealth stealth stealth around, in come my request for classhoppers to fuck off.
i think you'll find if you go back and read i did not post that paragraph, it was infact Punisher-X
also you cant tell people to get out your thread, if you dont want people to have an opinion go to a private forum where people who agree with you can only post.
Yes yes, thats con setup. PEs also have to setup every other skill well
so which other part of a PE is hard to setup ? PSI ????? STR ????? DEX ????? INT ????
its so fucking simple, maybe you just find it hard.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to get it setup in 15 imnutes on a char planner and then perfected with a week from dmg testing tweaking and a little bit of reading from the more knowledgable people who play PE (you are not included in this)
I cant be arsed to go find quotes but i know you have called for many nerfs.
Also why would i be upset about monk nerfs, i have a pure PPU and pure APU, they are still very easy to play and imo slightly over powered.
Tanks need a slight nerf on the devourer.
Spies also i think are fine, if you see Ste-x, Magnasan, Divide or any of the other quality setup spies they can beat most tanks.
Im off home now.
NERF THE PE'S ABILITY TO STEALTH
its not like anyone is saying obliterate the class like with the hybrids.
Originally posted by Judge
You are a Low tech PE, which means that you are ALOT stronger setup wise than the PEs who sacrifice valuble Dex points to put into tech combat.
Fight Cmdr. Revenge on Saturn with your low-tech PE and tell me that he's the one making sacrifices. Of course that's in Neofrag...In the field he stealths way too much :p
In removing Stealth you will make all PvP PEs lowtech, the blacksun is NOT worth wasting all those points in.
I have 2 hitech PEs (rifle/pistol) and I disagree with you. The RoF return from specializing in Low-tech is not worth losing energy weapons and stealth. Pain Easer = Gimp Gun and Lib is only good vs. about a third of people you run into.
My 2 cents :cool:
Originally posted by stigmata
i think you'll find if you go back and read i did not post that paragraph, it was infact Punisher-X
Yes, sorry about that I was going through it quickly and I copied the wrong thing.
Originally posted by stigmata
also you cant tell people to get out your thread, if you dont want people to have an opinion go to a private forum where people who agree with you can only post.
Well if you aren't going to post the facts right then what is the purpose of you being here?
Originally posted by stigmata
so which other part of a PE is hard to setup ? PSI ????? STR ????? DEX ????? INT ????
Anyone with half a brain should be able to get it setup in 15 imnutes on a char planner and then perfected with a week from dmg testing tweaking and a little bit of reading from the more knowledgable people who play PE (you are not included in this)
its so fucking simple, maybe you just find it hard.
Dex, Int and to a certain degree PSI. Well its quite easy to setup if you decide to grab someone elses setup, but if you actually work your own setup out then it increases in difficulty. The point is not how hard PEs are to set up its how hard they are in comparison to the other classes. Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that it is harder to set up a tank than a PE?
Originally posted by stigmata
I cant be arsed to go find quotes but i know you have called for many nerfs.
Find the quotes then I will belive you
Originally posted by stigmata
Also why would i be upset about monk nerfs, i have a pure PPU and pure APU, they are still very easy to play and imo slightly over powered.
I think you are upset because you want PEs to "feel everyone elses pain"... like, as an example, tanks have ever been nerfed. :rolleyes:
ATM I'm hightech
This ain't because of stealth, its simply beacuse of the lack of lowtech rifles. IF i had an all 120 Paineaser, id go lowtech in 5 mins.
I'm hightech for better range of damage.
RoG + PE.
Heck, some of you may even remember back when i was in NAT and used a Redeemer / First Love. Before PA existed.
Seeing as a PE does pierce/force and xray/fire. Its not as decent against a tank with capped force who could just slam some inqw armor on.
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
Fight Cmdr. Revenge on Saturn with your low-tech PE and tell me that he's the one making sacrifices. Of course that's in Neofrag...In the field he stealths way too much :p
You cannot judge the majority on how one person fights...
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
I have 2 hitech PEs (rifle/pistol) and I disagree with you. The RoF return from specializing in Low-tech is not worth losing energy weapons and stealth. Pain Easer = Gimp Gun and Lib is only good vs. about a third of people you run into.
Firstly, I did state afterwards that I may have over exaggerated, but the point is that there would be no stealth for PEs if the whinging masses had their say. So it may not be worth losing energy weapons AND stealth, but I think the increased RoF or defence is worth the loss of energy weapons.
Morris got it right......take away the ability for stealth 2 from PEs...and leave stealth 1 the way it is. We also have to remember low level spies who need a low req on stealth so they can use it to save themselves. Besides...stealth 1 doesnt last long enough to offer much of a chance to get away. All a PPU has to do it parashock....then follow the blue, the the PPU's buddies pounce when the PE comes out of stealth. I have died plenty on my PE because the stealth 1 simply did not last long enough to escape.
And stigmata.....can you cry anymore? Really. Yo want to take away stealth from a PE and nerf the Devourer. KK, please dont listen to these no skill kiddies who do nothing but get owned and then cry about it on the forums.
Clownst0pper
05-01-04, 22:40
OT-
Thank God NAT is back, a good challenge for the cartel on saturn :p
i say that we should wait and see if peeps would stay pe because most peeps will give up on pe's. so i say give it a month before its bak to tank and monk o cron :)
sorry for the second post stupid net made me post it twice its so slow on my end. cant tell if it wrote or did anything 2 seconds later.
And stigmata.....can you cry anymore? Really. Yo want to take away stealth from a PE and nerf the Devourer. KK, please dont listen to these no skill kiddies who do nothing but get owned and then cry about it on the forums.
2 words for you
Fuck Off
i am far from being a kid.
and i have never been killed by a devourer.
and i stand by my comment to nerf it, against a tank it about the same dmg as a CS, but against any other class it tears them appart
justify the reason for a PE to have stealth ?
is their one other than a get out of jail free card ?
Thats more than 2 words..
The point is, they've added something to the game that people requested for a long time, they can't just simply get rid of it.
If stealth was meant to be spy only it would have been in the first place.
Agreed PEs should not use stealth 2, but why would you want to gimp yourself that much anyway.
Stealth 1 is fine, plenty of time to make a good retreat, but you should not be able to stealth right away after using it, a delay of 5 - 10 seconds would be more than enough time to be parad + fucked.
Dade Murphey
06-01-04, 14:05
Stealth needs to be removed or it needs to be fixed...AoE weapons can hit it, sure...but nothing with a rifle can...if they're gonna leave it in game make it where anything can target it...just slower (or for monks maybe make it so they fizzle on it on occasion)...but you CAN see where someone's at if you're looking...so it makes sense that with a gun (blade, whatever) you will have a chance of hitting them...stealth doesn't, after all, turn someone litterally to smoke...it changes the way light refracts off of them making them seem invisible...so, if you can see it you can hit it...how about not nerfing a classes ability to use something...but changing the way things work on said item...make it targetable by all weapons but with a slower reticle close, chance of spell failure...etc...quit crying for a nerf of a class just because someone figured out how to make that class a bit better...cry for a change to something that is ubalancing...otherwise, next, we'll see a cry to nerf the spy :wtf: :rolleyes:
The bat needs to be taken out of the hands of the public and restricted souly to the hands of the devs/gm...ie. people who don't want their class to be the best
Originally posted by stigmata
justify the reason for a PE to have stealth ?
2 reasons i immediatly have in mind:
the first: damages by minute
pain easer => 40.800
judge => 29928
CS => 73348
HL => 70875 - 245385
see differences between monk or gentank damages and PE's weapons damages.
Second reason: CONstitution levels
PE has only 65 levels of constitution. Gentank 100.
PE has only 60 in STRengh. Gentank 100.
The third reason is that PE is intended to be a versatile class. Someone that can almost do everything. Why do you want to remove them a thing that they can use with some sacrifices and never as good as a spy (no PE would be able to use an obliterator) ? This is exactly what is a PE. someone that can do alsmost everything. Simply he will never be as good as a specialist.... o_O
yah thats a good reason y pes should still hav stealth but is it balance is the main reason.
and i wouldnt say cloak must be targetable that would rune the whole point. how about using stealth disables shelters and deflectors. decreasing its defence when its used bringing it down to spy lvl. making it harder to recover their shelter and deflector after each use. so thay dont sneak from behind. agin after a good fight and thay ran away.
since spys cant use shelter it would not really effect them other then deflector.
•Super|\|ova•
07-01-04, 00:28
Originally posted by Ralendil
2 reasons i immediatly have in mind:
the first: damages by minute
pain easer => 40.800
judge => 29928
CS => 73348
HL => 70875 - 245385
see differences between monk or gentank damages and PE's weapons damages.
Second reason: CONstitution levels
PE has only 65 levels of constitution. Gentank 100.
PE has only 60 in STRengh. Gentank 100.
The third reason is that PE is intended to be a versatile class. Someone that can almost do everything. Why do you want to remove them a thing that they can use with some sacrifices and never as good as a spy (no PE would be able to use an obliterator) ? This is exactly what is a PE. someone that can do alsmost everything. Simply he will never be as good as a specialist.... o_O
You didn't seem to think of the fact that PE's can actually cap the aiming on weapons (due to their high INT) and their moving speed... they can run around their opponent like a god damn balloon in fart circles (due to their lighter weapons and high DEX). Now why didn't you compare these things? Oh... and for what reason would PE even need more than 60 STR? :lol:
//Edit: Oh... and their PSI cap is far more higher too than on tanks so they can cast pretty god damn good buffs on theirselves.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
You didn't seem to think of the fact that PE's can actually cap the aiming on weapons (due to their high INT) and their moving speed... they can run around their opponent like a god damn balloon in fart circles (due to their lighter weapons and high DEX). Now why didn't you compare these things? Oh... and for what reason would PE even need more than 60 STR? :lol:
//Edit: Oh... and their PSI cap is far more higher too than on tanks so they can cast pretty god damn good buffs on theirselves.
What relevance does the fact that we can cap aiming on low TL weapons have?
Pistol PEs are fast... but even they have a slight slowdown, APUs have no slowdown with drawing their spells and Rifle PEs have more slowdown than Pistol PEs.
Why would we need more than 60 str? Hmmm... maybe for better armour?
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
You didn't seem to think of the fact that PE's can actually cap the aiming on weapons (due to their high INT) and their moving speed... they can run around their opponent like a god damn balloon in fart circles (due to their lighter weapons and high DEX). Now why didn't you compare these things? Oh... and for what reason would PE even need more than 60 STR? :lol:
//Edit: Oh... and their PSI cap is far more higher too than on tanks so they can cast pretty god damn good buffs on theirselves.
and you forget the fact that if you have run speed at max, stealth it mean you have plenty of point NOT in rifle or pistol.
You forget also that there are many difference between pistols and rifles. I have been low tech rifle, high tech rifle (so with stealth) and high tech pistol. I love low tech rifle or high tech pistol. Difficult to cap a Pain easer with some TC, difficult to survive with a pistol without stealth.
Finally you forget also the aiming system of rifles and pistols. Try a pain easer on a stealthed runner... you can't do any damage.
Try a malediction now on the same runner... if he'll stay, he will die...
And if I compare this things it was because of stigmata's arguments.
Written by Stigmata
and i stand by my comment to nerf it, against a tank it about the same dmg as a CS, but against any other class it tears them appart
justify the reason for a PE to have stealth ?
that was the reason I have compare these things...
For me it is clear, that, if the use of the stealth is forbidden for PE, I immediatly lom to low tech rifle...
Pistol wouldn't be an option no longer for me.
As it is impossible to cap a pain easer with some TC and a correct agility, and, as there's no correct energy rifle rare that can be used by a PE with good damages except of the pain esaer or the terminator that are low tech weapon, I would choice for my PE rifle low tech and advice that as the best choice possible for a PE. And to be honest I would estimate this choice as the only honnest choice.
•Super|\|ova•
07-01-04, 00:56
Originally posted by Judge
What relevance does the fact that we can cap aiming on low TL weapons have?
Pistol PEs are fast... but even they have a slight slowdown, APUs have no slowdown with drawing their spells and Rifle PEs have more slowdown than Pistol PEs.
Why would we need more than 60 str? Hmmm... maybe for better armour?
Ok well maybe you can't CAP the high TL weapon aim but it sure can be far better than tank's aim.
Well, we weren't comparing APU's to anything were we? And PEs (no matter rifle or pistol) are still faster when they have drawn their guns out. That's a fact and I'm not trying to get PEs a speed nerf here. I'm just taking out the things that make PEs so good.
And for the STR lvl... better armor? Shit... you can cap force resist without having 60+ STR easily.
I rest my case.
Dade Murphey
07-01-04, 01:10
Originally posted by BombShell
and i wouldnt say cloak must be targetable that would rune the whole point. how about using stealth disables shelters and deflectors. decreasing its defence when its used bringing it down to spy lvl. making it harder to recover their shelter and deflector after each use. so thay dont sneak from behind. agin after a good fight and thay ran away.
.
like I said in my post...they're already targetable by AoE weapons...Pistols have AoE pistols...monks have AoE weapons...tanks have AoE weapons...only rifles don't have anything that can do AoE...so they get dicked...and it wouldn't be a normal target you can get on them...it would slowed down...like 1/2 normal target rate or something...it'd be kinda like trying to shoot a stealthed Preditor...it would help balance the stealths in the game too...considering it's easy enough to lose a stealthed person if they have a good speed and are trying to get away
probly be ezyer to hunt and kill preditor.
Fully RC now, stealth is not needed at all. Now i have much better defences, including a PP chip.
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