View Full Version : Tiny Devourer change
just spread the damage over an extra 2 seconds to combat zone hoppers :)
its just something i've noticed over the last few days.. its pretty lame
Original monk
01-01-04, 17:57
yes :P 2 seconds longer would be perfect
Originally posted by Duder
nerf poison
ditto
oh shit, i have 20 energy resist, nerf energy
seriously, spec it and you'll see how weak poison really is...
for 3 or 4 points in energy and xray you'll have 40 in poison...
Shadow Dancer
01-01-04, 18:27
Originally posted by Rieper
oh shit, i have 20 energy resist, nerf energy
seriously, spec it and you'll see how weak poison really is...
for 3 or 4 points in energy and xray you'll have 40 in poison...
Exactly. People don't want to spec any poison and expect to survive 50 stacks. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Exactly. People don't want to spec any poison and expect to survive 50 stacks. :rolleyes:
With 40 poison resist I fear poison beam much more than holy lightning. You dont just die, you have to wait. It only takes like 4 stacks and I'm fucked period. (I'm not good at finding my drugs) Spec more poison? Before I'd just stay the fuck away from anyone using poison beam but... now that stupid tank rare... NERF POISON!!!!! :D Seriously though I'm gonna get it to like 55 or 60 but no more!!! (I just rerolled Jack Drake) My other resists are more important... until they add melee poison mods and rare nailguns... fuck poison!
/me runs
take out gay TSU guards and leave the dev as it is.
Shadow Dancer
01-01-04, 18:39
Originally posted by Drake6k
With 40 poison resist I fear poison beam much more than holy lightning. You dont just die, you have to wait. It only takes like 4 stacks and I'm fucked period. (I'm not good at finding my drugs) Spec more poison? Before I'd just stay the fuck away from anyone using poison beam but... now that stupid tank rare... NERF POISON!!!!! :D Seriously though I'm gonna get it to like 55 or 60 but no more!!! (I just rerolled Jack Drake) My other resists are more important... until they add melee poison mods and rare nailguns... fuck poison!
/me runs
Sorry that's a load of *****. I have a hard time believing you take more damage from poison at 40 resist than from HL.
Also, drugs are there. Use it. Long dot = much more time to heal. Combine that with low damage and drugs, what the heck more do you want?
If it takes you 4 stacks to die with 40 poison resist(and for some odd reason you're not using drugs), then you must have 100 HP.
HL>Poison
With just viper king armor and 10 poison resist I can survive a full stack of devourer poison. Just spec some poison and you'll be fine. I honestly don't think the dev is as good as people are making it seem to be (except against PPU's).
Shadow Dancer
01-01-04, 19:20
Originally posted by Marzola
With just viper king armor and 10 poison resist I can survive a full stack of devourer poison. Just spec some poison and you'll be fine. I honestly don't think the dev is as good as people are making it seem to be (except against PPU's).
It's good because alot of people don't spec poison(and it's still decent if they do, unlike poison beam IMO :rolleyes: ) and it's fucking awesome against spies and apus. Apus CANNOT afford poison resist without gimpage IMO, unless they are team oriented apus( :rolleyes: ). Devourer is really deadly up close to them.
Well at least IMO.
Hmmmm... I prefer to run away from the flamer than gimp myself even a few % for the poison (dmg is pathetic at the full 9/10 m range anyway) But im a rifler, and thats a perk , that I dont have to stand right next to my target to kill it.
I have never won a duel with a devourer carrying tank, and I dont plan on standing in front of one in real combat any time soon.
TBH , when I truly want to go close combat, ill roll to tank.
As for beams I heal and run as fast as I can away ramming my face with antidotes.
Pistols are better in the eyes of most PE's ,and fair enough, a lot (most) of them kick my ass in duels. What they do not do, is kick my ass at 500m. (at least not yet :D)
Anyway this thread is more about zonehopping than the strength of poison...
Not a lot of people have artifact capped Devourer's yet, so when all the Tanks start using it, either people will spec poison so it won't be as bad or a nerf will arise.
I'm lucky to be a Tank and have Viper King at my disposal. :p
ghandisfury
01-01-04, 20:22
Originally posted by Rieper
oh shit, i have 20 energy resist, nerf energy
seriously, spec it and you'll see how weak poison really is...
for 3 or 4 points in energy and xray you'll have 40 in poison...
Sorry mate, not against the Dev I have 70 poison resist, and a heavy poison belt on......dev still kills me super quick. It's just stupid how fast it stacks.
stalked monkey
01-01-04, 20:27
I dont have a devourer, but I have a poison modded NCPD one.
I shot it at my bot once.
Sure, the poison stacked up really quick... But it goes away as quick as hell, so each stack doesnt really do so much damage unless you just SIT there and let it
I love people who whine about poisen :P
GIVE APUS A RARE POISEN BEAM DOITTTTTT DOOOOOITTTTTTTTTT
Psycho Killa
02-01-04, 04:16
I got a better idea then nerfing poisin.
Lets make every gun in the game do the same exact damage to every person no matter what class or resists.
That would be fuckin fun wouldnt it be.
The reason i hate the devourer so much, is that the WORST PvPr tanks can now become marginally reasonable in PvP, then claim on trade that they PWN TEH S3RV3R.
Poison isnt really weak... If poison wasnt ALWAYS DoT, it would seem a shit load stronger.
Poison doesnt need a nerf, neither does devourer really...
But i think all classes need the option of using poison mods.
I voted NO btw.
Devourer is as strong as it will ever need to be. If you cant kill people with a devourer (especially a poison modded one), then u got issues.
I killed so many people with my 0 slot devourer. - too many, too easily imo.
Lets remove resists. Make each class get a few weapons, and when you die you hit enter to respawn at a spawn point. Kinda like Quake! Massivly Multiple Online Shoot 'em Up.
I mean, tanks could spawn with a CS and Devourer and Devils Grace, PEs with Lib and Ray of God and Judge, Spies with First Love, a couple of Revege drones, and a Slasher, and PSIs could come with Holy Lightening, Fire Apoc, and a new spell called 'Godmode'.
That'd be really fun, and then we would have no more nerf threads.
...Instead we would have "But we want this.. instead of this.. and why the hell do PSI's get godmode anyway"
ya anything to own zone hopping bitches
Originally posted by L0KI
The reason i hate the devourer so much, is that the WORST PvPr tanks can now become marginally reasonable in PvP, then claim on trade that they PWN TEH S3RV3R.
Poison isnt really weak... If poison wasnt ALWAYS DoT, it would seem a shit load stronger.
Poison doesnt need a nerf, neither does devourer really...
But i think all classes need the option of using poison mods.
I voted NO btw.
Devourer is as strong as it will ever need to be. If you cant kill people with a devourer (especially a poison modded one), then u got issues.
I killed so many people with my 0 slot devourer. - too many, too easily imo.
havent seen 0 slot capability yet, but i havent lost 1v1 since i got my dev.. but i've been tactical about using it.. i force people into corridors and small spaces.
that said, i dont count myself amongst the WORST pvp tanks.. just pretty poor :p
shadow... we agree on some stuff and not on others, but your TOTALY biased on your thoughs on poison. all you play is an apu, you dont own any other chars. comming form a pe, spy, tank, and apu, trust me poison is the damn bane of my neocron life. YOU CANT SPEC FOR IT. pes can weaken themselves a lot and do max 65 poison. guess what? i tried it, it hardly helps. spies cant spec any if they wanna be good vs most people. Tanks can spec a decent amount with less energy/fire/xray/hp then they would like, but still it hurts a lot. tbh, if poison got stronger and poison nailguns and melees weapons come out, I might as well quit, cause theres no point.
Devourer is already plenty strong. lucky for me i got excelent fire resits and im fast, so my pes can dispatch dev tanks. CS is easier to aim then dev and my tank has decent poison, and ive been the dev tanks if fought. Still though, it makes tanks a lot more powerful. Take your new toy, be happy, and stop asking for more.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 06:37
Originally posted by VetteroX
shadow... we agree on some stuff and not on others, but your TOTALY biased on your thoughs on poison.
Everyone is biased Vet, including and especially you.
Originally posted by VetteroX
comming form a pe, spy, tank, and apu,
No offense Vet, but that doesn't mean much IMO. Someone can still let their bias blind them even if they have played multiple classes, and most people still have a "favorite" class they stick to and will defend to the last. Like you and PEs.
Originally posted by VetteroX
YOU CANT SPEC FOR IT.
You can't spec for poison? Are you saying that you can't afford to spec for it, or that increasing poison resist doesn't help at all? :confused:
And how am I totally biased about poison vet? You have 24 second DOT, and drugs. What more do you want vet? Remember people use poison against me too.
And i haven't asked for poison to be stronger. I asked for the damage to be more front loaded, and I often hate when people exaggerate the "power" of poison. Where's Rade when you need him.......
Psycho Killa
02-01-04, 06:46
Poisin is still pretty strong.
Its strength isnt initialy in its damage that one beam does.
Its the fact that you can stack 12 beams then switch to holy lightning. While running from holy lightning now you gotta worry about outhealing the damage u take over like u said 24!! whole seconds. Its not easy to pop pills while ur worrying about dodging holy lightning keeping up your buffs healing and trying to shoot...
I think apu poisin and all poisin is fine as it is now. If we made it more front loaded then that would completely take away the whole fuckin point to poisin. Its suppose to do low damage over a long amount of time. This way if you stack alot u can do HIGH damage over a long amount of time.
You often complain about 24 seconds being too long but in my opinion thats the strength of poisin and not its weekness.
BTW: vet seems to like his apu more then his pe
I hit enter cause im pissed over poison boosting threads and didnt finnish, read edit. it is a fact that poison has the least options in terms of resits... 2 pieces of armor , one non store bought. filter heart sucks for anyone but a tank or apu always buffed by a ppu., or ppu always buffed by himself.... the body health and stamina loss is too great. poison is already very powerful... its like asking for a boost to hl or something... just insane.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 06:53
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Poisin is still pretty strong.
Its strength isnt initialy in its damage that one beam does.
Its the fact that you can stack 12 beams then switch to holy lightning. While running from holy lightning now you gotta worry about outhealing the damage u take over like u said 24!! whole seconds. Its not easy to pop pills while ur worrying about dodging holy lightning keeping up your buffs healing and trying to shoot...
That doesn't even make sense. Poison is just delayed damage FFS. THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING!
If HL does 120 damage, spread out over 10 ticks doing 12 damage each. Which is better, 120 damage instantly or over 20 seconds. HRMRMRMMRM THAT"S A TOUGH ONE.
o_O
The longer it takes to do the damage, the easier it is to heal through it. If you have 60 HP and HL hits you for 70, you die. If a poison beam hits you for 70, but needs to go through it's dot crap first, you will survivie. Not to mention drugs, which can completely negate the damage of some stacks. What other damage in the game can be completely negated?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
This way if you stack alot u can do HIGH damage over a long amount of time.
Again with this little myth. Please tell me why doing high damage over a long amount of time is somehow better than doing high damage over a short amount of time?
I really want to know. If one shot of poison beam is meant to do uhh let's say 80 to a target with 0 resist, please tell me how waiting 24 seconds for that is somehow better than waiting um no seconds.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I hit enter cause im pissed over poison boosting threads and didnt finnish, read edit. it is a fact that poison has the least options in terms of resits... 2 pieces of armor , one non store bought. filter heart sucks for anyone but a tank or apu always buffed by a ppu., or ppu always buffed by himself.... the body health and stamina loss is too great. poison is already very powerful... its like asking for a boost to hl or something... just insane.
Pissed over poison boosting threads? How many poison boosting threads have their been? Barely any. O_o
IMO poison isn't powerful, because it does like close to the damage of HL, but at 0 resist. I'm sure Liberator would do 50x the damage of HL if I had 0 poison resist. You're just saying it's already strong because you don't want to make a sacrifice in your nice little setup. THAT's why. But technically it isn't strong, because if you cap poison resist you would be getting like 10 damage per stack.
And i haven't seen anyone asking for poison boost. Reaper is complaining more about zone hopping. Me? I'm just complaining mostly about people who exaggerate the power of poison. You don't see me starting threads to increase ZEE power of poison.
O_o O_o
tbh, if poison got stronger and poison nailguns and melees weapons come out, I might as well quit, cause theres no point
Dont you get it ?
You are supposed to die once in a while !
KK do NOT want you to have GOD MODE resists, to have a balanced gamed Every character needs to have a weak spot, other wise we may as well all have LE's in & hold hands & dance in PP.
The whole idea of introducing poison weapons is to CRUSH 1337 resist setups like yours so that skill might come back into the game & not just superior number placement.
I say introduce a new resist type or two, just to fuck you all up so you cant possibly spec for all situations. Then we would have a game worth playing, where the outcome isnt predetermined due to 'someones' misuse of the test server & instead a little class starts to show.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO poison isn't powerful, because it does like close to the damage of HL, but at 0 resist. I'm sure Liberator would do 50x the damage of HL if I had 0 poison resist. You're just saying it's already strong because you don't want to make a sacrifice in your nice little setup. THAT's why. But technically it isn't strong, because if you cap poison resist you would be getting like 10 damage per stack.
Poison beam is tl 82 and hl is tl 101 why do you keep comparing the damage of the two?
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:03
Originally posted by petek480
Poison beam is tl 82 and hl is tl 101 why do you keep comparing the damage of the two?
Because even if it's lower TL, if it was on par with energy damage it should totally blow away HL in terms of damage against someone with 0 resist. But it doesn't. So that means that poison is already "naturally" weaker than other damage types, as opposed to being equal.
Obviously HL should be stronger because of higher TL. Take someone with CAPPED poison and energy resist. Then shoot them with energy beam, then shoot them with poison beam. You'll see what I mean.
Btw, how much poison resist did you have?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Because even if it's lower TL, if it was on par with energy damage it should totally blow away HL in terms of damage against someone with 0 resist. But it doesn't. So that means that poison is already "naturally" weaker than other damage types, as opposed to being equal.
Obviously HL should be stronger because of higher TL. Take someone with CAPPED poison and energy resist. Then shoot them with energy beam, then shoot them with poison beam. You'll see what I mean.
Btw, how much poison resist did you have?
Ok so each poison beam stacks lasts 24 seconds, right? Ok, you hit someone with capped poison resists it'll do like around 5 damage each tick, maybe less maybe more. Now 5 * 24= 120. I'd like to see you do that damage on a energy beam to someoen with capped energy resist. And also remember you can get loads of stakcs on someone.
Oh and before you start bitching about how 24 seconds is too long, well it goes through shelters unlike any of the other types of damage, I think thats a good enough trade off.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:12
Originally posted by petek480
Ok so each poison beam stacks lasts 24 seconds, right? Ok, you hit someone with capped poison resists it'll do like around 5 damage each tick, maybe less maybe more. Now 5 * 24= 120.
Each tick isn't per second, I think it's every 2 seconds. And we don't know how much damage it would do. But i definitely bet it would be shitty.
Originally posted by petek480
And also remember you can get loads of stakcs on someone.
What does loads of stacks have to do with anything? Loads of stacks, loads of hits. What's the difference? If there was some magical stack bonus, then maybe I would say "omfg you could get 5 stacks on someone". Which isn't really different than 5 hits.
And why do you people keep ignoring drugs? Where's my drug that makes 2-3 hits of energy beam bounce right off of me. :lol:
I remember one time in neofrag, testing a fuly capped holy pestilence on myself. I speced TONS of poison resist and put poison belt(and i still didn't cap poison or come close), and one stack of HP did less than energy beam. And that is TL 110.
:rolleyes:
Anyways, wasn't poison complete crap to you? I remember stacking you with a billion stacks once, and you didn't take much damage at all. I was like "wtf". How come you're not taking issue with Vet's statement that poison resist "hardly" makes a difference?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What does loads of stacks have to do with anything? Loads of stacks, loads of hits. What's the difference? If there was some magical stack bonus, then maybe I would say "omfg you could get 5 stacks on someone". Which isn't really different than 5 hits.
5 stacks mean 5 times the damage they'll take meaning they can't outheal it unless they have drugs.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:15
Originally posted by petek480
5 stacks mean 5 times the damage they'll take meaning they can't outheal it unless they have drugs.
And? Who cares i they can't out heal it? They can still heal "through" it minimizing the chance of death greatly.
Originally posted by petek480
Oh and before you start bitching about how 24 seconds is too long, well it goes through shelters unlike any of the other types of damage, I think thats a good enough trade off.
No not really. That's only semi useful, in the cases where someone has shields but no ppu is around. Trust me though, most cases when someone has shields a ppu is around. Meaning they can easily take off 210837120 stacks with one cast of antidote. Or PASSIVELY take it off with anti poison sanctum.
So what were you bitching about?
Shad, the problem is DoT is great.. its lots of dmg, potentially more than any other weapon because of stacking. But the tradeoff should be that you have to be there to do dmg. Because DoT allows you to fight back...
Extra Dmg Output = Weaker Caster
thats the apu trade off right? so if i get free dmg output without the expense of being weaked (having to be in the open) then i dont think thats fair.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:18
Originally posted by Rieper
Shad, the problem is DoT is great.. its lots of dmg, potentially more than any other weapon because of stacking. But the tradeoff should be that you have to be there to do dmg. Because DoT allows you to fight back...
Extra Dmg Output = Weaker Caster
thats the apu trade off right? so if i get free dmg output without the expense of being weaked (having to be in the open) then i dont think thats fair.
I already explained this to you in the other thread.
you said you have to be in the open for the same amount of time.. and im saying that because the dmg output is greater over the same amount of time then the apu has to risk more.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:23
Originally posted by Rieper
you said you have to be in the open for the same amount of time.. and im saying that because the dmg output is greater over the same amount of time then the apu has to risk more.
The dmg output isn't greater over the same amount of time. And if you feel the apu has to risk more, that's fine. I disagree and that's your opinion. But to say they face no risk is just a flat out lie.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
No not really. That's only semi useful, in the cases where someone has shields but no ppu is around. Trust me though, most cases when someone has shields a ppu is around. Meaning they can easily take off 210837120 stacks with one cast of antidote. Or PASSIVELY take it off with anti poison sanctum.
Well it's not like an APU only has poison he also has energy and fire spells. If poison doesn't do anything switch. Thats also another reason why poison shouldn't be increased. Everyone pretty much have access to all damage types meaning that if someone is weak to something all they have to do is switch weapon/spell(well it's easier for an apu). It kinda makes speccing a certain resists useless.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:26
Originally posted by petek480
Well it's not like an APU only has poison he also has energy and fire spells.
And? We're talking about poison here and what it does vs shelter.
Originally posted by petek480
Thats also another reason why poison shouldn't be increased. Everyone pretty much have access to all damage types meaning that if someone is weak to something all they have to do is switch weapon/spell(well it's easier for an apu). It kinda makes speccing a certain resists useless.
:confused:
Right.....
I didnt usr the test server at all to make my resits. I did it way back when loms had no penalty, and yes, i spent a long time testing, so i deserve to have a good setup, if you dont wanna take the time, die. I have a weakness, its called 2 1/2 clips of lib or 2 1/2 clips of CS. or 10 holy lightnings or whatever. weak enough as it is.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And? We're talking about poison here and what it does vs shelter.
Then why did you start talking about ppus taking off poison stacks?
Psycho Killa
02-01-04, 07:29
Shadow I have Heavy Poisin belt thats 71 armo resist and Fiftyfive in con after buffs etc.
I still take 3 or 4 damage a tic off of poisin beam with about as capped as poisin can get.
Now you may say 3 or 4 damage is crap. Though when i was testing with vet and he had 40 resist he took 10 a tick for around a total of 120 damage.
Now that means im only taking 30 to 40 damage on a poisin beam.....
Now you stack 10 poisin beams on me real quick and i start taking some massive damage. 30 or 40
In addition you start using holy lightning for another 30 or 40 daamge a tick.
Now im taking almost 80 damage making it harder for me to outheal.
(Granted this doesnt work as well since im a ppu and i can get rid of it quick as i can cast a heal though not every ppu can carry an anti poisin in there belt 24 7)
I think poisin beam is FINE. If you really think it sucks that much go pking for a day with just JUST a poisin beam and come back and tell me aside from a ppu that you could find one person you couldnt kill.
Im all for upping apu poisin damage by adding a new poisin rare.
This way they have the option to do insane poisin or insane energy or if they want both they have to risk losing a rare.
Why front load damage more and make it like fire? Why dont we just make every single damage type do all instant damage and have no uniqueness between them.
I think its best to just stack a crapload of poisin then switch to another attack. I think that is poisins strength that as your using something else its over a 24 second period wreaking havoc on the person.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:30
Originally posted by VetteroX
I didnt usr the test server at all to make my resits. I did it way back when loms had no penalty, and yes, i spent a long time testing, so i deserve to have a good setup,
lol, sounds like something a hybrid would say.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I have a weakness, its called 2 1/2 clips of lib or 2 1/2 clips of CS. or 10 holy lightnings or whatever. weak enough as it is.
That's not really a weakness IMO. Unless you consider, recieving damage at all, a weakness.
Originally posted by petek480
Then why did you start talking about ppus taking off poison stacks?
Because shelter is a buff.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
The dmg output isn't greater over the same amount of time. And if you feel the apu has to risk more, that's fine. I disagree and that's your opinion. But to say they face no risk is just a flat out lie.
i feel the apu should risk more, and i think they risk too little at the moment, not that theres no risk. And also, the eventual dmg output from the spells cast in the same amount of time is greater especially when you consider that poison is difficult to spec for any non-tanks.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:39
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I still take 3 or 4 damage a tic off of poisin beam with about as capped as poisin can get.
48 damage total per stack. OMFG THAT'S UBER!
:p
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Now you may say 3 or 4 damage is crap. Though when i was testing with vet and he had 40 resist he took 10 a tick for around a total of 120 damage.
Right. And what doesn't do 120 damage when the person has 40 resist? Just curious.
Using XP controller 3(need it to get good mana) gimps my piercing alot. I have like 51 armor and 30 natural. And liberator freaking rapes me. If all I had was 40 resist........ :lol:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Now you stack 10 poisin beams on me real quick and i start taking some massive damage. 30 or 40
hrmmm
1 poison beam does 3-4 a tick for a total of 48 or so.
1 HL considerably does more.
Multiply both by ten. HRMMMMMZ!
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
In addition you start using holy lightning for another 30 or 40 daamge a tick.
What the hell do you mean ANOTHER 30 or 40 a tick? You can't freaking use another weapon and somehow count that as if it was additional poison damage.
Jesus. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Now im taking almost 80 damage making it harder for me to outheal.
You're taking 30-40 FROM THE POISON. Case closed. That's it. I'm sure adding HL to fire halo would make fire halo seem uber.
If you take 48 per stack. Then 10 HL + 10 HL>10 poison beam + 10 HL
Good lord........
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I think poisin beam is FINE. If you really think it sucks that much go pking for a day with just JUST a poisin beam and come back and tell me aside from a ppu that you could find one person you couldnt kill.
I think poison beam is overrated and the damage is exaggerated. I also think most people don't understand DOT, think there's something special and magical about it, and don't really analyze what DOT is. And to reiterate my point, find someone with 0-40 resist to a given damage type, then use a low TL weapon of that damage type vs that person, and tell me if they die or not.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I think its best to just stack a crapload of poisin then switch to another attack. I think that is poisins strength that as your using something else its over a 24 second period wreaking havoc on the person.
*sigh*
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Why front load damage more and make it like fire?
Because it already has too many negatives against it. IMO.
Originally posted by Rieper
i feel the apu should risk more, and i think they risk too little at the moment, not that theres no risk. And also, the eventual dmg output from the spells cast in the same amount of time is greater especially when you consider that poison is difficult to spec for any non-tanks.
I guess we disagree.
As soon as 20+ tanks have it, It will get nerfed and It will be left in your cabs next to your Wyatt Earp, Healing light, and executioner.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
hrmmm
1 poison beam does 3-4 a tick for a total of 48 or so.
1 HL considerably does more.
Multiply both by ten. HRMMMMMZ!
Hmmmm
1 poison beam does 48 damage when he has over 100 poison resits.
1 HL thats a rare and 20 tl higher then poison beam does more.
I wonder why. Could be only one answer, poison beam is underpowered.
:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:45
Originally posted by petek480
Hmmmm
1 poison beam does 48 damage when he has over 100 poison resits.
1 HL thats a rare and 20 tl higher then poison beam does more.
I wonder why
:rolleyes:
Energy beam would still do more. And the damage is instant and can't be negated by drugs.
HRMMRMRMRM understand yet? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Energy beam would still do more. And the damage is instant and can't be negated by drugs.
HRMMRMRMRM understand yet? :rolleyes:
Try hitting someone with energy beam when they have shelter on.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:48
Originally posted by petek480
Try hitting someone with energy beam when they have shelter on.
Try hitting someone with poison beam when they have anti-poison sanctum on, or a PPU with antidote.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Try hitting someone with poison beam when they have anti-poison sanctum on, or a PPU with antidote.
Not every weapon is suppose to kill everyone. If theres an ppu around use something else.
Psycho Killa
02-01-04, 07:50
Ill try to refrain from rude comments but your making it harder and harder shadow.
DONT EVER FUCKING COMPARE HOLY LIGHTNING TO POISIN AGAIN.
Poisin does 30 to 40 overtime to me a ppu with probly as high as anyone else in the game has poisin resists.
With shelter (Since a plus of poisin is it doesnt work with shelter) lets see what damage I would take from energy beam.
Log on pluto now and ill do some tests with you.
No I wasnt saying using poisin with something else would magicaly make poisin do more damage, was just saying its very useful to stack multiple poisin on someone then use another attack since now theyre taking twice the damage at the same time.
Just like you said its easier to heal the same damage over time, well its harder to heal twice the damage in the same time.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:50
Right, thanks for missing my point.
@pete
*hears nid's footsteps*
"Keep it ingame guys =D"
Anyway, If people keep talking about the devourer, its gonna get nerfed. I'm suprised KK didn't nerf rayguns, much less this flamer that "pwns all" just because people cant be arsed to skill poison resist.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Right, thanks for missing my point.
@pete
Np, not like you got my point either though.
remeber as pointed out shelter doesnt effect poison... take a few poison drugs and you cant even see strait. the last thing poison needs is a boost, apus are powerful enough as it is and we dont need more poison weapons in this game.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:54
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Ill try to refrain from rude comments but your making it harder and harder shadow.
DONT EVER FUCKING COMPARE HOLY LIGHTNING TO POISIN AGAIN.
Energy beam would do more than 48. Point still stands.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Poisin does 30 to 40 overtime to me a ppu with probly as high as anyone else in the game has poisin resists.
Again i'm telling you that poison is only decent because people don't spec resists. But i'm telling you that it's weaker than other damage types, it only seems strong because people don't spec resists.
THAT'S WHAT I"M SAYING!
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
With shelter (Since a plus of poisin is it doesnt work with shelter) lets see what damage I would take from energy beam.
It's better than 0 damage, which is what you would take from poison if you had anti poison sanctum.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
No I wasnt saying using poisin with something else would magicaly make poisin do more damage, was just saying its very useful to stack multiple poisin on someone then use another attack since now theyre taking twice the damage at the same time.
And i'm disagreeing, because instant damage is always better than DOT IMO.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Just like you said its easier to heal the same damage over time, well its harder to heal twice the damage in the same time.
Uhh right, and it's even harder to heal instant damage.
Originally posted by Flea
As soon as 20+ tanks have it, It will get nerfed and It will be left in your cabs next to your Wyatt Earp, Healing light, and executioner.
while that irritates me, i feel worse for the guy paying 10 mil for a devourer :)
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 07:56
Originally posted by petek480
Np, not like you got my point either though.
I did get your point, you just keep avoiding or dancing around the issue.
Poison damage does less damage than other damage types. CASE CLOSED!
Does Pain easer outdamage HL because it rapes someone with 0 piercing resist?
Not!
Originally posted by VetteroX
take a few poison drugs and you cant even see strait.
You want a free ride? You want free immunity to poison with no penalty to completely negating stacks?
:confused:
Psycho Killa
02-01-04, 07:57
"Thanks for missing my point shadow"
almost forgot the :rolleyes:
You cant do instant damage twice at the same exact time. Which is why poisin is good because as its ticking away you can use something else to hasten the process. This way if you get 10 stacks there probly taking double the damage when you smack them with an energy beam. (Since the poisin is ticking as you hit them with the beam)
Meaning more damage to outheall.
Im gonna figure out what I have to do to get my energy ressit down to my poisin and please log on pluto with a poisin beam and energy beam handy.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I did get your point, you just keep avoiding or dancing around the issue.
Poison damage does less damage than other damage types. CASE CLOSED!
Does Pain easer outdamage HL because it rapes someone with 0 piercing resist?
Not!
Well since you seem so sure of that why don't you come onto pluto now and we can test it.
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 08:03
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
You cant do instant damage twice at the same exact time. Which is why poisin is good because as its ticking away you can use something else to hasten the process. This way if you get 10 stacks there probly taking double the damage when you smack them with an energy beam. (Since the poisin is ticking as you hit them with the beam)
DOT means more time to heal. Instant damage means instant damage. 20 energy beams is somehow less deadly than 10 poison beams + 10 energy beams?
You realize you have a bigger chance of survivial with the poison/energy combo because..
1.You have alot more time to heal through the poison damage. AND USE DRUGS.
2.The poison will do less damage.
You see what i'm saying? So I didn't miss your point. lol. I'm just disagreeing that somehow delayed damage+ instant damage is somehow better than instant damage + instant damage.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Im gonna figure out what I have to do to get my energy ressit down to my poisin and please log on pluto with a poisin beam and energy beam handy.
I'm in deck 1, pp1, with energy and poison beam.
sex
EDIT: Why don't you use the skill manager to find out what armor setup has equal poison and energy resist?
Have to bring back to...
Your comparing 2 totally different styles of damage and 1 is a TL a lot lwoer than the other so its a bit lame in the first place.
A PPU is always going to have shelter/heal in ther QB but not going to have anti poison. ANy other class is not usually going to have antidote either, + that only helps to on stack and gives drug flash.
Poison keeps hitting ppl at the same time as you HL them
Going back on topic.... haev you any idea how long 2 seconds is? lol 2 seconds would make the dev do like 8* the damage it does now....
I think a better idea is to make the stacks do less damage at first, but do it for 2 seconds longer, meaning it would do the same damage, but it would still catch those pesky zone campers.
I like that idea :)
But i don't think a small change like that would ever get implemented
Why are all scared to Posion? I have 15 with buff and if I get 5 - 7 stacks and have a PPU near me he can outheal that easy...
Just crunch and get a heal, done....
The heal will last longer and the posion will just drop off.
If I have any drugs on me I could take at least x2 x3 stacks w/o any problem. Well LiB > PB NERF THE LIB!!!!!! :rolleyes:
or just boost posion dmg or faster dmg like X/2 DoT....
Originally posted by Birkoff
Have to bring back to...
Your comparing 2 totally different styles of damage and 1 is a TL a lot lwoer than the other so its a bit lame in the first place.
A PPU is always going to have shelter/heal in ther QB but not going to have anti poison. ANy other class is not usually going to have antidote either, + that only helps to on stack and gives drug flash.
Poison keeps hitting ppl at the same time as you HL them
Going back on topic.... haev you any idea how long 2 seconds is? lol 2 seconds would make the dev do like 8* the damage it does now....
Yeah, thanks for not reading the original post. Same dmg, spread out over 2 seconds longer, no extra dmg. Read the fucking thread before you mouth off.
shodanjr_gr
02-01-04, 14:24
OK i am gona say just one thing.
Tank,capped,around 40 Por,no VK armor.
25 Poison beams cast on the tank (my poison is was at about 560% damage).
Tank survived having 1/2 of his HP left by using just TL3 Heal and medpacks, no drugs.
25 fucking stacks.
And you say poison isnt underpowered??
shodanjr_gr
02-01-04, 14:27
Originally posted by Birkoff
A PPU is always going to have shelter/heal in ther QB but not going to have anti poison. ANy other class is not usually going to have antidote either, + that only helps to on stack and gives drug flash.
Ôhat is stupid. Its not like antidotes are rare or anything. Freely available in shops all around neocron and in the wastelands for a bargain price, if i may say.
Keeping 1 antidote in ur belt isnt a problem. Heck my APU keeps 2 antidotes and an antishock for when he needs it. Every person that knows at least the basics of PVP should carry one antidote in their QB.
Hey guys how about instead of bitching at each other when you're all making valid points, we bitch at the whiners who want poisen nerfing because they don't want to have to spec for it, before we get another 'ressurection nerf' style sledgehammer approach to poisen damage.
Too many people wanting the same thing and Reakktor does it regardless of whether its balanced or not, you know that, I know that, but still people continue to bitch.
Poisen damage is FINE as it is, if you think its too powerful thats because you're nowhere near the 114 resist soft cap. Until you're near that, stop whining. At 80 resist in poisen, the majority of poisen damage doesn't hurt. Again to use Kyle Vorgon as an example because he has the most balanced and powerful/well specced resists in the game he can outheal 5-8 stacks of poisen with PE heal, he can live long enough in the line of fire of a devourer to take a step back and start shooting him. I say a step back because DEVOURER is a SHORT RANGE weapon.
You can spot the PvP'ers from saturn and uranus in this thread a mile off. Anybody who plays on pluto is literally screaming 'Dont nerf poisen'. You know why? Because instead of whining about how all of our charactors die to poisen, we lom, respec, and fight sensibly.
My suggestion to anybody who wants poisen nerfed is you stay in a safe zone because you're the reason that the game is unbalanced as it is. And thats not a flame. Thats the truth.
--
Originally posted by Birkoff
A PPU is always going to have shelter/heal in ther QB but not going to have anti poison. ANy other class is not usually going to have antidote either, + that only helps to on stack and gives drug flash.
My PPU stored heal/shelt/def/antipor/antifreeze in her belt. Not storing a spell in your belt as a PPU isn't a ground for getting anything nerfed. It's your own bad luck if you haven't got the spell and you're gonna die through your own negligence.
Vampire222
02-01-04, 14:53
can only say i totally agree with flyl....
Dade Murphey
02-01-04, 15:17
Shadow...it wouldn't make sense for poison to do instant dmg...even in the real world most poisons take time to act...from minutes to hours to days...it's an alternative method of dmg...it's kinda nice to see something different in a game that has so much that's the same...you get lit on fire you burn for a bit...you get poisoned you suffer for a bit...you get hit by nrg you fry instantly...the devourer may be a touch too strong...or it may just be the fact that most people don't like to "waste" points on poison so the aggressors are using that against everyone *shrug*
i dont like the way this thread went, and flyl, bitchers are universal, dont just assume pluto is uber, i play on all three and the best player i've duelled with is on Uranus, but the best op fight resists i saw was on pluto..and well..saturn.. :p
whiners and bitchers are universal.. consider the fact that the majority of this forum is nerfs and bitching, and then consider the most active forum users (according to a recent poll) are from pluto..
Shadow Dancer
02-01-04, 19:17
Originally posted by Dade Murphey
Shadow...it wouldn't make sense for poison to do instant dmg...even in the real world most poisons take time to act.
The real world, yea ok. lol
But anyways, I wasn't asking for poison to do INSTANT damage. What I told Psycho Killa ingame, is that I think it should do the same damage it does now over 12 seconds instead of 24. And a rare poison beam should be introduced.
Me and Psycho tested the damage of poison in-game. Had had very very close poison and energy resist. One stack of poison beam did 27 damage, one hit of energy beam did 97. So like I said 3348347 times before, poison does less damage(way less) than other damage types, NATURALLY.
Add to that, that it's spread out over 24 seconds, AND you have drugs, makes me extremely annoyed when people complain about it or exaggerate it's powah!
Yea in the real world if you move the posin will affect more...
= faster dmg.....
Thats why you should lay down when a snake bites you and put your leg up.... bha plz dont talk about the real world then a nailgun would kill you in 3 shots... thats tl 10 ? -.-
Originally posted by Flyl
You can spot the PvP'ers from saturn and uranus in this thread a mile off.
OMG PRUTO SI TEH SKILLX0R OTHERS SI TEH LEWS~~ ^_______^
(edited this next bit before Nidd can get to it :p )
Poison as it is seems fine to me. A good spy has 1 weak spot, which can be energy, fire, or poison. Apus have a similar situation. They're the weaker classes defensively. Okay.
A tank/PE with poison resist and/or VK takes moderate but not severe damage from poison. Poison beam is somewhere around TL 85, right? What kind of damage do good tanks/PEs take from similar TL weapons, say Blacksun or EPR? Hint: it's not all that much. Okay.
You need less points in resist, but the damage will basically be the same. Plus with poison stacks on someone, you can effectively hit them with 2 weapons at once (this is GREAT against those PEs and spies that heal during battle). Seems like a fair trade to me.
As for the Dev, it seems more or less on a par with the CS vs tanks and (good) spies (and presumably PEs as well then). Maybe a bit better, but then I've only fought a few tanks using one so far. The damage is higher, but the low range is once again a fair trade. The DoT seems OK as it is, but lengthening it by a few seconds won't really make it that much easier to heal through it.
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