Turrets.

[YoDa-UK]

Ok this is a touchy issue, its going to count for everyone on all servers, not just where I play atm, so i want everyones opinion on this issue.

As we know a lot of clans will use turrets in a way that can ruin the fun of the fight, making it seem pointless to even bother, which to me takes away the fun completely, and its not just about where i play, i know clans on other servers who also use the same sort of tactics.

We have come up with a lot of ideas on how to sort this problem "as many see it" out, but so far we have had no word from KK about this issue.

So I have tried to poll as many options as i can think of for you to shout about, if one answer is not there, then post about your view below, plz no flames about clans, just about the turret problem.

EDIT "I'm going to draw up a map of an op and show what I mean about placement and of players having to man the turrets"

Ok here is the picture, its of Hawkins outpost and was for something I did for NDA a long time ago, but we can use this pic for a rough idea on what I mean.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d.peters1/ndapics/HAWK0407.jpg

From that Pic there is certain places where turrets should be placed, if KK did it in such a way that when a clan owns an op they pay directly into the city com for turrets to be auto placed at the outpost, meaning no more trying to place them yourselves, but have the computer do it for you and at set locations INSIDE the op, no more BS about GR being to near and stuff like that, or clans dropping them inside boxes and such, this would solve a lot of the current problems, it also stops people from carrying turrets on them to drop while either stealthed or keep running to the GOGO to get more, it does mean someone will have to sit their arse at a city com and wait for one to get destroyed in order to replace it, but that can also be sorted out by limiting the time between each turret being placed by the computer, say a 1 minute wait time between each turret.

So when clan A takes hawkins, they ask the city com for placement of 5 gatlins and 4 stun traps, this will take a min of 9 mins to place them all, and if one gets destroyed, its another clan member having to goto the city com, pay another amount from clan funds to buy another turret and another 1 full minute for it to be placed, so no clan can spam place turrets this way, it also stops stealth dropping completely.

The other option on the vote is Maned turrets, by this i mean get rid of the current style of turrets for gat and art, and have them need to be maned in order to fire, what this does is again litmit the amount of turrets in the battle due to each on needing one player to man them, i would go against having any regs for gunning them though, so a spy can gun one too. BUT the gunner can be shot down, thus making the turret useless untill another defender gets into theseat and starts firing again.

This would stop IMO spam of turrets where its the turrets doing the dmg and the players hide behind them, it would also mean a risk element in the gunners positions.

There is more that can be added into those, but im running out of ideas this early in the morning and I'm sure the community can think up more to add at this point, both good and bad.

I've gone on long enough, what do people think?

[Candaman]

sex love it 5 star fixes so many problems not only with stealth drops and not being able to place them but also if u are fighting against so called "friendly" factions not being shot because turret settings being wrong whether it be through being on friendly or a spy in clan chaging it. In addition to the fixes it makes a whole new aspect of play to the game where all the people that miss out on gunning vehicles and such like will get chance to experience it for themselves.

[[SP]Ostrich]

i like it

[Cruzbroker]

I though they could put some 2m radius on turret, that it cannot be placed near objects like boxes.

[YoDa-UK]

no a turret can and has been dropped on boxes and they often fall into the boxes making them harder to target.

I think having a City com system would be the best.

Think of the advantages:

1. Placing of turrets automatic by the computer
2. Set places where turrets drop
3. Cost is taken directly from teh clan funds
4. Stops stealth dropping
5. Stops turret spam inside the op
6. stops turret dropping outside the op
7. removes the need to build turrets
8. removes the need to carry turrets in gogo or on person
9. Build time on turrets placed by the computer 60 secs each turret.

Those are some pretty damn good points there IMHO.

Imagine if you will the city com interface, you select your outpost like you do now for its security setttings and so on, only now you have a option to place turrets, this brings up a simple overhead view of the outpost with key locations where turrets can be placed highlighted in Red, the rest of it is in green. You simply click on a Red section and this give you the option to place a turret "gat/stun/art" and you confirm that you want a turret placed there and it auto withdraws the cash needed from clan funds.

It such a simple idea and solution to a big problem we have atm. About making turrets mountable by players, well thats something even more and would be good too, maybe even have more different turrets like Rocket ones and so on, with DOY coming soon and gliders it might be good to have a Anti-Air turret placed on the roof of a outpost.

[Syntax-Error]

Whoooaa hold your horse's


7. removes the need to build turrets

And destroy a part of the already limited tradeskill area??

Phoenix would bloody struggle without turret orders. as would many other cst clans

[RayBob]

The entire turret system is a mess. I honestly wouldn't mind if they eliminated them from the game entirely.

Turrets can indeed be placed in areas that make them untargetable. They can indeed be placed outside of many OPs. Turrets cannot be placed inside some OPs in places where they should be (for example, the entire front area of Mal). Turrets mysteriously disappear, fail to deploy, etc., etc., etc.

Stun turrets are the worst offenders. No spell, weapon, or mob has the power to completely immobilize a player the way that the pushing effect of a stun turret can. The fact that they stun you with the power of Holy Paralysis is nothing compared to the pushing effect that I cannot believe was ever intended.

[\\Fényx//]

Originally posted by RayBob
The entire turret system is a mess. I honestly wouldn't mind if they eliminated them from the game entirely.

Turrets can indeed be placed in areas that make them untargetable. They can indeed be placed outside of many OPs. Turrets cannot be placed inside some OPs in places where they should be (for example, the entire front area of Mal). Turrets mysteriously disappear, fail to deploy, etc., etc., etc.

Stun turrets are the worst offenders. No spell, weapon, or mob has the power to completely immobilize a player the way that the pushing effect of a stun turret can. The fact that they stun you with the power of Holy Paralysis is nothing compared to the pushing effect that I cannot believe was ever intended.


heh im glad you 2 said it before i exploded on here about the abuse of turrets :rolleyes:

[.Cyl0n]

love the idea :)
voted for the 60 secs drop time..
but i also think there should be something to prevent dropping turrets on dead players or into boxes

5 stars

.cy

[Shadow Dancer]

I like both ideas.

I think if the turrets should be manned, they should be more powerful and only tanks should be able to do it.


My favorite option is having "set" places where the turrets are placed, and purchasing them from the Citycom.

[msdong]

hmm the idea of fixxed turrets is kind of cool but only if they are rigger controlled.
i like the fredom to place them anywhere and im wäitin for the day when flying VHC can reach the OP tops. the setup time is a good idea but i think 60 sec is to much - maybe as a base time lowered by construction skill or repair or both.

[\\Fényx//]

Originally posted by msdong
hmm the idea of fixxed turrets is kind of cool but only if they are rigger controlled.
i like the fredom to place them anywhere and im wäitin for the day when flying VHC can reach the OP tops. the setup time is a good idea but i think 60 sec is to much - maybe as a base time lowered by construction skill or repair or both.


Turrets should be a way of defending the OP while theres nobody there, when their blown up you get a message in clan chat saying so, then everyone goes there to defend it, Turrets should NOT be a way for a stealther to fuckin attack, at the moment stealth blacks out every offensive weapon, and every PPU spell, but it does not block out a turret, which means that stealthers have a means of offence which is bloody crazy considering stealth is by far the most effective means of defence...

Turrets should take 15/25 seconds to place, If you start placing a turret it should encumber your movement like poking, When the timer is complete where you are standing is where the turret will be dropped, wheres the problem in that ? Only problem I can see is where some people have got so used to using instant drop turrets that its gonna completely screw up their tactics ...

I dont think there should be restricted places to drop turrets, it should be ANYWHERE within the OP WALLS, NO dropping turrets outside the OP walls, within the OP walls also means that you cant make them 'camp a GR'

[-Demon-]

Very good ideas...really do wish kk would say something about this.

I know they want pvp balance which seems thier number 1 priority, but I think this effects that if you think about it, as it completely kills it.
It's unrealistic feature to drop a killing machine in a middle of a fight that comes out of a box that you buy. Anyone heard of flat packs? :)

I'm sure alot of the old vets that have left wouldn't believe the tactics employed by clans nowadays.
When I started it was about the fights and a bit of honour, most of the time the moaning was just down to the numbers game which is still a problem but most ppl do see that side of things is unavoidble, dropping turrets however just so you can watch your turrets kill enemy just ain't good.


I think construction times and the citycom is a good idea.

People that have voted keep as they are must be damn crazy or rely on turrets to do thier fighting. I can't see any reason to keep them as un-balanced as they are now or I want a anti-turret gun or nuke warhead :P

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by RayBob
The entire turret system is a mess. I honestly wouldn't mind if they eliminated them from the game entirely.

Turrets can indeed be placed in areas that make them untargetable. They can indeed be placed outside of many OPs. Turrets cannot be placed inside some OPs in places where they should be (for example, the entire front area of Mal). Turrets mysteriously disappear, fail to deploy, etc., etc., etc.

Stun turrets are the worst offenders. No spell, weapon, or mob has the power to completely immobilize a player the way that the pushing effect of a stun turret can. The fact that they stun you with the power of Holy Paralysis is nothing compared to the pushing effect that I cannot believe was ever intended.

what he and fenix said.

Current turret uses are on the verge of being called an exploit.

Just give OPs FIXED turrets that people can man, and that once destroyed, they need at least 10-20 minutes to get rebuilt.

[Carn]

Wow yeah great idea and great points. Let's see, I think there should be 3 fixed positions at all OPs where turrets go. But, you would still have to construct them, instead of paying the CityCom. If you wanted to set up a turret, first you'd have to buy one or have someone construct one. Then, someone would have to go to a CityCom and set Turret Point A, B, or C to that turret type that they bought/got built. Stuntraps are removed from the game completely. Let's say some clan constructs 2 gatling turrets and 1 plasma turret. Someone in the clan goes to the CityCom and sets Turret Point A and B to gatling turret, and C to plasma turret. Outside in the OP, a holographic image of the designated turret would appear on the turret stands. So at Point A and B there would be a holographic gatling turret and at Point C there'd be a holographic plasma turret. The holographic image would basically be a turret reskinned with a half-translucent neon green skin. One of the clan members takes the 3 turrets and right-clicks holographic gatling turret A, and a gatling turret is removed from his inventory and placed onto the stand. etc etc. Stealthers... would not be able to place a turret on the stand while stealthed.

I'm really sick of seeing turrets inside generators, inside boxes, even inside the OP walls (and I mean the turret is physically INSIDE of the solid wall). Let's fix this please. Sadly, as long as there's any way to place a turret wherever they want, there's likely to be people abusing this.

[Opar]

*****

[YoDa-UK]

I had thought about a holographical image when the turret is in the build process, but that might be asking to much.

Also I do understand building turrets could be seen as a part of the tradeskiller's economy, so some sort of drop off system into the outpost is needed, maybe a special type of GOGO that only turrets can be placed into and the city com registers them at that op and then someone goes to the CC and see's how many turrets are available to place at that outpost and can do so from the CC, with still having the build time on each turret, so you still can't have someone just throwing in endless amount of turrets into this "gogo" and someone else just sitting at a city com in the city putting them down endlessly, the build time stops that.

I'm still waiting to hear back from MJS on this, I pm'ed him but i know he isn't coming back till 2nd Jan. I really do want some sort of fix and so far this is a great answer to it all, it stops so many of the "exploits" we seen already.

Keep it coming.

[Cryotchekk]

make turrets bloody heavy as well


*****

[Leebzie]

Hmmmm , like the no stealthing a lot, that just aint fair. Think 60 seconds is a bit ott tho, considering how much even 15 seconds is in an op war. 30 Seconds should be about enough, because if enemies are going to find you placing that turret , they've had more than enough chance by that time.

EDIT : w00t 300 posts :D

[YoDa-UK]

Well ive made a post in brainport about turrets, its roughly what I'm on about here and is a very good solution to all our current problems.

The link is also now in my sig line, easier that way :)

[Archeus]

Originally posted by \\Fényx//
*snip*

I agree totally with you.

I would like an extra option that allowed you to remotely control the turret from any citycom (maybe needs R-C). So you can fight with the turret or check up on the area.

But not before what Fenyx suggested.

[\\Fényx//]

Originally posted by Archeus
I agree totally with you.

I would like an extra option that allowed you to remotely control the turret from any citycom (maybe needs R-C). So you can fight with the turret or check up on the area.

But not before what Fenyx suggested.


but coz i said it its gonna fall on deaf ears :rolleyes: :(

[Clownst0pper]

have said it a million times, does no one listen any more? or do you all need pictures to realise someones idea.

Skank :p :mad:

[Flyl]

- Increase weight of turrets to 60kg
- Build time of 40 seconds (same as ressurection is "supposed" to be)
- Unable to use while stealthed
- Add ability for hacking droners (HCK/RCL/WPW) to be able to control turrets through a citycom or through a future implementation of hacknet or something
- Increase turret damage so it actually affects PPUs
- Remove STUN turrets altogether (along with all other freezers...)
- Fix the inability to drop turrets inside the Yutano hack room (I'm sure there are other ops...)
- Increase turret cost
- Make turret RANK dependant on the quality of the turret (to influence people to buy constructed turrets)
- Make Artilary turrets worth buying

[Archeus]

Good points Flyl. Very good points.

I don't think they should remove stun turrets though. Not being able to drop them in the heat of battle should remove them being so annoying.

Although what would be nice is a tool that disables the stun effects (has the same abilities as a stealth tool, except your not invisible). This would allow certain classes to run in to scout the turrets location.

[YoDa-UK]

Simon we have that already, its called the holy carth sanc, if it would work properly though, that and TTS dont see to work to well atm.

[Archeus]

Does it work with turrets? I was thinking something more for a Spy/PE that allows them to get in to look around.

[YoDa-UK]

hmm not so sure PE's should be getting anymore "toys", of course if more people were droners then there is your answer, a drone an scout out a outpost in seconds very effectively with scout drones and give details on the entire layout of turrets and people.

[Leebzie]

Originally posted by YoDa-UK
hmm not so sure PE's should be getting anymore "toys"

Well, I dont really agree that PE's shouldnt get more toys 'in general' (cause we get the leftovers from over classes and the lower level items, and my paranoia that the next nerf target will be PE's...) However, Im kinda in agreeance on this issue, I think droners should have some sort of immunity to turrets, to give them more roles in combat. (with thier drones, like some sort of electromagnetic sheilding so turrets cant see them)