View Full Version : Remove the celler's.....
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 09:48
"What the hell" I hear you cry, am I trying to get myself mowed down by angry player's, to anwser that no, I realy have a point..
Which I've been trying to make over and over again, but keep getting ignored or just drowed by other thread's...
So now I start over and hope my shock tactic's get at least some response.. (eps now BP idea's can be in the main forum)
Anyway right onto the idea, right now in the city everyone come's to plasa 1 and 2, simple reason behind these meeting's between often hostile faction's? the celler's.. look at them, they where not there in beta, they where added for retail, and what are they but pit's where you go to level, people go there from /2 right to /70 (seen a /72 run though to get a PK).. yes there are other's, and they are all rubish, abolute trash. they are the reason no one goe's to pepper park sewer's to level, why plasa 1 in a trade centre.. Vet's, look around, rember the time in beta if you where there, people used to travel to pepper park and outzone, Outzone 4 used to crawl with people wandering around.
Now look at us, huddled in the celler's, group's on hostile runner's mixxed togther in tight space's..
These pit's, these spot's where people go to level are what has torn the commuinty appart, everyone goe's into them, and as such they make great PK spot's, so people tired of getting PKed instead of leaving for a slightly out of the way leveling spot, put their LE's in, and mingle freely..
Without these pit's we would see less people witn LE's in, more use of the outzone and pepper park, not for PvP battle's between high level's, but for low and mid level runner's looking to level. OZ's near perfect, cept the spawn's are now a little high level for what they should be aimed at, but no matter it's a challenge..
KK, whoever decied to put the cellers into the city should be made to stand in pepper park 1 with a sign around his neck saying "I hate tsunami syndicate"..
Now I'm lead on to what happen's when the celler's are removed, well pepper park and outzone would be the place to go, but since the copbot's got pulled out and faction guard's took their place it seam's that's a problem... Then i hda another idea..
Faction guard's, that act like copbot's.. Now stop, this is not a sweeping statment saying faction guard's should respond to soul light, they should not, they should however respond to gun up's, and such, though not to hostile faction's.. to hostile's they should grumble and growl but not shoot first... This would mean pepper park would be open again, and be safeish.. allied faction's should not be attacked without warning, hostile's if they gun up should be shot on sight..
Reading the above your thinking why?, well the faction guard's are now tough enough to right off player's wandering into the HQ, you gun up in the HQ and your a foe your gonna be gunned down, even with PPU support... So there's no need to cause undue violence..
So all in all that's about the idea, get rid of the celler's and let us explore the city again, some may complain, but then it's better for the game if it don't feel like your walking into a leveling pit, it's better to feel like your going somwhere doing somthing.
Damnit, wanted to make a poll and forgot.. anyone help..
Yep, gotta agree with that, we need more variety.
Once TG wont be able to use the cellers they wont be able to level at all, you cant start your 2/3 spy on terror maulers.
Give us more city & non city mid-level leveing areas.
I lived in the PP sewers in beta, i wouldent be surprised if nOObs didnt even know that PP existed.
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 10:00
Originally posted by Drexel
Yep, gotta agree with that, we need more variety.
Once TG wont be able to use the cellers they wont be able to level at all, you cant start your 2/3 spy on terror maulers.
Give us more city & non city mid-level leveing areas.
I lived in the PP sewers in beta, i wouldent be surprised if nOObs didnt even know that PP existed.
I lived in the first sewer in pepper one in beta, I managed one foray to the city gate's, didn't get outside people where beating up the storm bot's and after they killed a couple thought I'd been looting them so they killed me even as I explained they didn't drop anything.
:)
Them where the day's..
BTW, I'm not talking more leveling spot's, I'm talking about removing the "easy" leveling spot's added after beta, they just piss me off.. a TG noob can come from MC5 at /15 easly, MC5 you can get to pretty good level pretty quickly.., from the level I got in MC5 I managed to wander right to TH without hassle from TG.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I lived in the first sewer in pepper one in beta, I managed one foray to the city gate's, didn't get outside people where beating up the storm bot's and after they killed a couple thought I'd been looting them so they killed me even as I explained they didn't drop anything.
:)
Them where the day's..
BTW, I'm not talking more leveling spot's, I'm talking about removing the "easy" leveling spot's added after beta, they just piss me off.. a TG noob can come from MC5 at /15 easly, MC5 you can get to pretty good level pretty quickly.., from the level I got in MC5 I managed to wander right to TH without hassle from TG.
Same. I leveled off the giant yellow spiders in the PP sewers. I leveled
str 20 - 50ish off grenade launchers and rocket launchers.
This was the place to go, and outzone.. now in retail there's no
need. So, i have to agree with this thread.
FBI
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 10:07
Damn, people agree with me for once and I forget to make it a bleeding poll....
#
Sec, hope I don;t get called for spam but I'm gonna make a poll for this thread.
Topic's at an end, please use poll... and webshock, I don't care to hear what you have to say. you'd have us all sit down and have no say..
But look, change's have happened that where suggested,, yes long time from suggestion to implentation, but it happned before, so it could happen agaion if it's a good idea...
Topic at end please use polled thread here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86278).
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 10:09
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86277
Don't lock this if your going to lock any mod's please lock the other one and let this poll live on so I can get a feel for how many people lime this idea...
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
"What the hell" I hear you cry, am I trying to get myself mowed down by angry player's, to anwser that no, I realy have a point..
Which I've been trying to make over and over again, but keep getting ignored or just drowed by other thread's...
So now I start over and hope my shock tactic's get at least some response.. (eps now BP idea's can be in the main forum)
Anyway right onto the idea, right now in the city everyone come's to plasa 1 and 2, simple reason behind these meeting's between often hostile faction's? the celler's.. look at them, they where not there in beta, they where added for retail, and what are they but pit's where you go to level, people go there from /2 right to /70 (seen a /72 run though to get a PK).. yes there are other's, and they are all rubish, abolute trash. they are the reason no one goe's to pepper park sewer's to level, why plasa 1 in a trade centre.. Vet's, look around, rember the time in beta if you where there, people used to travel to pepper park and outzone, Outzone 4 used to crawl with people wandering around.
Now look at us, huddled in the celler's, group's on hostile runner's mixxed togther in tight space's..
These pit's, these spot's where people go to level are what has torn the commuinty appart, everyone goe's into them, and as such they make great PK spot's, so people tired of getting PKed instead of leaving for a slightly out of the way leveling spot, put their LE's in, and mingle freely..
Without these pit's we would see less people witn LE's in, more use of the outzone and pepper park, not for PvP battle's between high level's, but for low and mid level runner's looking to level. OZ's near perfect, cept the spawn's are now a little high level for what they should be aimed at, but no matter it's a challenge..
KK, whoever decied to put the cellers into the city should be made to stand in pepper park 1 with a sign around his neck saying "I hate tsunami syndicate"..
Now I'm lead on to what happen's when the celler's are removed, well pepper park and outzone would be the place to go, but since the copbot's got pulled out and faction guard's took their place it seam's that's a problem... Then i hda another idea..
Faction guard's, that act like copbot's.. Now stop, this is not a sweeping statment saying faction guard's should respond to soul light, they should not, they should however respond to gun up's, and such, though not to hostile faction's.. to hostile's they should grumble and growl but not shoot first... This would mean pepper park would be open again, and be safeish.. allied faction's should not be attacked without warning, hostile's if they gun up should be shot on sight..
Reading the above your thinking why?, well the faction guard's are now tough enough to right off player's wandering into the HQ, you gun up in the HQ and your a foe your gonna be gunned down, even with PPU support... So there's no need to cause undue violence..
So all in all that's about the idea, get rid of the celler's and let us explore the city again, some may complain, but then it's better for the game if it don't feel like your walking into a leveling pit, it's better to feel like your going somwhere doing somthing.
Damnit, wanted to make a poll and forgot.. anyone help..
just because a idea is popular, doesnt mean it has relevance to the devs. now if something pisses a majority of the community off (like the holy para weilding holy lightning psi) then it MIGHT get fixed.
Polls are the equivilant to this new trend to make a petition on this forum. they dont care, they are going to do what they want to do regardless. There is a post where one of the devs calls it "their game". That means to me that if you ask politely they eventually be arsed to get around to it.
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 10:55
Webshock, go away, you just say the same canned phrase to all idea's that call for change...
so I quote myself....
"Webshock, I dont realy give too hoot's about what your saying.
KK are not here to serve our every desire, but if we don't bleeding tell them what we want to and why they won't even know, without poll's like this, and request's nothing would change toward's a game we'd want to continue playing, if that happen's then they would lose player's, even if each player's got two account's they'd soon get to know most of the other player's who play at the same time, and then get bored of rehasing same old right's and talk's... and the game die's..
So, we ask for change, and add a poll so they know how much support they'd got for such and idea."
if you've nothing constructive to add then don't say anything.
As if the removal of the cellars would diminish the PKs ... PKers follow the masses, there is no reason for them to run around in "non-inhabited" areas.
Why not remove the caves, too? They are there for the very same purpose (with the exception of containing some boss-mobs): powerleveling your ass off. People are too lazy to explore or just want everything close together (leveling area, shops, tradeskillers for their popped out implants, building new weapons, etc), it's up to them to make use of the less frequented areas. I like to have choices in a MMORPG, the more the better.
And last but not least KK put some work and time into these cellars ... I doubt they want to "delete" them just because someone thinks people should go level in the OZ areas ...
Personally I like the OZ areas and prefer them to any cellar and it's not like there is nobody around, just not as flooded as it was during the end of beta4 :p
nice idea....perhaps though we will see a natural spread out of people when there are more, i mean 100 people cant camp the aggies at o nce for levels, so perhaps as population increases, these other, farther away spots like outzone will be used.
Originally posted by Drexel
Once TG wont be able to use the cellers they wont be able to level at all, you cant start your 2/3 spy on terror maulers.
Erm maybe I'm missing something but I levelled to level 20 easy in the caves in TG, then ran to TH/NC to level.
So many places where can there can be variety and not all tons of players in a tight place i agree.
Original monk
31-12-03, 14:08
well altough this isnt that of a popular idea for most i must confess youre absolutely right ... i prefered PP3 sewers WAY more then those pits anyway :)
daamn you bring back nice memory's :)
well nm, yust wanted to say its a good idea, close them stinkin pits :P
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 14:22
Originally posted by FeeNiX
nice idea....perhaps though we will see a natural spread out of people when there are more, i mean 100 people cant camp the aggies at o nce for levels, so perhaps as population increases, these other, farther away spots like outzone will be used.
I predict that 100 people will try to camp the aggy's all at once.. There's no incentive to go anywhere else, and the celler's are the one big misstake of Retail, there's no reason for them, other than as place's to power level, and because of the way they are designed you can power level to cap in them if you felt inclinded, though it's easyer to move out at higher level's...
As long as they are there people will alway's go to them, it's become somthing people tell newb's, it used to be, get a good gun, and into the sewer's, when your a bit stronger head into pepper park sewer's and when you can reach the back room easy then move to OZ area's, OZ4's pretty good...
and so on, people moved from easy leveling to harder leveling, so you didn't get the high to low mix you get right now, yea you'd get the odd PKer run though but that was normal..
Point is, if the celler's where removed, people would complain like mad for a few week's, maybe longer.... but then it'd hit they have to move further out, and they have to explore the city.. and it can be great fun..
Spex... You've never explored the Main sewer have you... take a trip if your about /30 or so, and you'll see how much work KK put into the celler's, noting that they are all the same basic modifcation of one of the MS map's, and it's not even done in the engine edtior, it's done with placed object's...
I'd rather see them close the celler's instead of trying to fix anything wrong with them, and work on link's from all the sewer's intot the mainsewer..
be nice to get people out into the outzone again, theres noone out there for me to practice my aiming on:D
lovely idea, i really think Outzone, and especially Industrial zones are underused.. this could be a good way to move everyone too those zones..
Originally posted by Archeus
Erm maybe I'm missing something but I levelled to level 20 easy in the caves in TG, then ran to TH/NC to level.
imo TG is has great caverns to start as a new player, and techhaven is good for the low-midlevel runners. but i still think it would be nicer if ppl wouldnt go down to these cellars but would head for outzone, or industrial.
Originally posted by Archeus
Erm maybe I'm missing something but I levelled to level 20 easy in the caves in TG, then ran to TH/NC to level.
Same. TG has the BEST leveling system out. Get the faction sympathy needed, and then do hard missions hunting big cavecrawlers. I don't even stop at lvl 20, As a tank on saturn I capped Psi in there, and never had to leave TG at all, and she now totes a TPC. Just not many people realise this. Imagine doing successful Aggie missions, at a really low level? It's why any Tsunami character I make, goes for a run ASAP to TG. Level in there for a couple of days, then head back for OZ missions.
Now, what if there were cellars at each, or nearly each op? The main leveling areas then would be contestable, and hopefully the ops would be fought over for more than just cash.
shodanjr_gr
31-12-03, 15:23
/me likes
I want some life given to the Outzone!!!!!
PS:Q ur pre-previous avatar was better!
Beanie McChimp
31-12-03, 16:39
There should be more life in the outzone. What happened to the BD prison?
ive been wondering that, i guess KK decided to screw that idea
Syntax-Error
31-12-03, 16:54
i like it.. i like it alot.
Originally posted by ezza
ive been wondering that, i guess KK decided to screw that idea
i dont think they have, last we heard there was a bombing attack on it, which was about 3-4w weeks ago and bearing inmind we havnt had our fix of the neocronical for almost 2 weeks....
And i like this idea, theres tons of other places to lvl...but the sewers are just to convienient, lvling should be a CHALLANGE!
~T
Beanie McChimp
31-12-03, 17:08
Does anyone know what the BD prison will be because that is a good idea.
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 17:09
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
PS:Q ur pre-previous avatar was better!
I would have done a poll for my next avatar, but Gotter's didn't think it was noteworthy enough...
BTW, still same person...
Come on KK, it's a well loved idea, and it's a good one, rare on these forum's, rarererer (huh?) cause I had the idea...
Now I have thought of it like that, it is a damn good idea.
Beanie McChimp
31-12-03, 18:50
Who is the girl in ure avatar?
Originally posted by Beanie McChimp
Does anyone know what the BD prison will be because that is a good idea. gambling and cough recreational area
I kinda assume that now since enemy factions are no longer going to be safe in the city that I expect these places to be the underground network that they use to get around the city like ReaKKtor said they were going to do.
Damn, your kind of getting alot of attention to your avatars :)
Q: First time I was in the main sewer I got killed out of nothing ... this was back in september 2002.
There are many cool leveling areas which are only frequented by a few runners ... but I don't see the point in removing any leveling area, neither highly nor less frequented ones. If the players want to level only in the cellars present in NC, then it's their choice. Nobody forces you to not go to the Outzone and kick some stuff there ... actually it makes leveling much more fun if you don't have to crawl through all those player-masses in OZ like it was back in the end of beta4 (when I first visited OZ in beta4 it was as empty as it is now). Secondly, the cellars (especially the aggie-cellars) are not only used to level up, but also to do (killing) missions of higher level ... normally you have to run a few meters between terminal and "killing spot" (e.g. if you do missions in OZ).
And then: The Mainsewers are really cool, but compared to OZ I *never* met anyone down there. I dunno if they should be connected to the normal sewers in the city ...
If you want to get more attention to the OZ sectors you need more "infrastructure" there, means more shopkeepers, maybe terminals, maybe more genreps etc. Or something special which you don't find anywhere else ... but forcing players into OZ is the wrong way to go (IMHO).
Originally posted by Spex
f the players want to level only in the cellars present in NC, then it's their choice. and those are the runners that complain the game is boring, so we should help them a bit in the right direction ;)
I agree, as long as people don't go into my PP1 sewers that I always level in :D
Q`alooaith
31-12-03, 22:46
People complain that the game is boring but at the same time refuse to do somthing diffrent...
So by removing the celler's, IMHO one of the worst addtion's to the game, they kill hunting mission's, your not hunting your just exterminating pest's in a controled area..
Mission's used to mean somthing that you had to think about before you took one, you had to know where to go and then worry about there not being enough spawned mob's to do the mission.. Now it's a no brainer to pick up aggy mission before ducking into celler..
We're all intelligent people, don't hand feed us, give us a challenge in the everyday.. like the newbi mission's, they have to look for their prey a little..
Besides another problem with Aggie Cellars is that it lets you level up high enough for MB in one place. The trend now is lvl 1 sewers for a day, then aggie, then MB, then Warbots and caves. This lets you cap your char pretty quick yet you are missing like half of the game.
Originally posted by Drexel
Yep, gotta agree with that, we need more variety.
Once TG wont be able to use the cellers they wont be able to level at all, you cant start your 2/3 spy on terror maulers.
Give us more city & non city mid-level leveing areas.
I lived in the PP sewers in beta, i wouldent be surprised if nOObs didnt even know that PP existed.
hello? what about the lil caves inside the tg canyon? remember those?O_o
I remember the days of beta where there were no fucking lame "hunting zones" I leveld out in OUTZONE 4, and I actually found other people out there levelling the same. I sure miss when you could go up to someone and talk to them, knowing that if they made one false move that you could blast them with your un-nerfed phosphor pumpgun. Geez, I miss beta. :(
Q`alooaith
01-01-04, 13:28
the No people seam to be keeping their mouth's shut... maybe because they can't think of a real reason to keep the celler's other than to power level..:p
I miss my junk knife.
You are correct about the cellars and it would be cool to see more peeps wander around in the OZs.
Q`alooaith
01-01-04, 21:31
It'd be nice to see people leave plasa, other than to take the trek to MB/TG/DoY.... Right no people say the gam'e dull and boring, these same people have never gone to OZ to level, they've not wandered the pepper park sewer system or stumbled though the mainsewer at mid level... there can be great fun and many place's to go, but the celler's stop people from going, both because they have no reason to and because if they did, they'd be no one else there to lend a hand or talk to.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
It'd be nice to see people leave plasa, other than to take the trek to MB/TG/DoY.... Right no people say the gam'e dull and boring, these same people have never gone to OZ to level, they've not wandered the pepper park sewer system or stumbled though the mainsewer at mid level... there can be great fun and many place's to go, but the celler's stop people from going, both because they have no reason to and because if they did, they'd be no one else there to lend a hand or talk to.
Only fools lvl in cellars. OZ goes way faster and it's way cooler place.
Q`alooaith
01-01-04, 23:54
#151988, with that sweeping statment you've just reduced over half the playerbase to fool's..
I am guilty of leveling in the celler's, I'm a spy and their are thing's in OZ that kick my ass too easly right now.. and pepper 1 is over limit's because of my faction (crahn)..
Yea there are other place's to hunt but the celler's are easyer, and this is the real importaint bit, there are enough people nearby to lend a hand should I get into trouble.. like say muffing a shot and ending up with two aggy on me just as my Delfector run's down..
Cruzbroker
02-01-04, 00:04
Originally posted by Sealdude
Besides another problem with Aggie Cellars is that it lets you level up high enough for MB in one place. The trend now is lvl 1 sewers for a day, then aggie, then MB, then Warbots and caves. This lets you cap your char pretty quick yet you are missing like half of the game.
I would say, at least around 80% ...
Mutant Pool :D what a nice athmosphere..
Q`alooaith
02-01-04, 00:06
I used to love mutant pool, great GR with lot's of OZ nearby to hunt in...
Right now though unless I PL more than I want to I'm too weak to solo there... hell I'm too weak for most places..
Cruzbroker
02-01-04, 00:20
Via rosso has rooms full of mutants... also beta 4 used to have giant rats in via rosso sewers... that was a place to be then... I wonder how many will go via rosso if cellars get cleaned up a bit... (and now ppl are like wow, because they didn't know about these places, wonder why) :p
.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
#151988, with that sweeping statment you've just reduced over half the playerbase to fool's..
I am guilty of leveling in the celler's, I'm a spy and their are thing's in OZ that kick my ass too easly right now.. and pepper 1 is over limit's because of my faction (crahn)..
Yea there are other place's to hunt but the celler's are easyer, and this is the real importaint bit, there are enough people nearby to lend a hand should I get into trouble.. like say muffing a shot and ending up with two aggy on me just as my Delfector run's down..
I know :lol:. Anyways when I made a rifle spy I went straight to OZ, drugged up for a better rifle and went to kill hurlers. They are very easy if you know how to do it.
KeithMyath
02-01-04, 11:04
i like the idea personally, more travel to pp would be good, especially if it meant so many people of diverse factions that pking would be difficult, as the pker would have a greater chance of being spotted by someone of the victim's faction or an allie,
maybe instead of removing the cellars entirely, try removing the aggressors and aggressor captains, replace them with mutants so that the difficulty of the is toned down and the exp gain is also lowered.
the only thing is that the PP sewers might need to bring brought up a notch in difficulty, or have newer, harder areas added in.
another option is to place the newer harder areas in the industrial zone, that place could really use a fair bit more traffic, of course it would also split the traffic of the areas into groups based somewhat on the ability to survive.
this would mean the plaza would be useful for noobs and low lvl hunting, pp for low-mid range, industrial zone for high lvl, via rosso for mid range, oz for practically all, the wasteland is of course its diverse self.
i think simply changing the hunting grounds around could make the city a much more vibrant place, as the plaza will be used for shopping anyways, what with all the faction hqs and stores in high-density. so the traffic it would lose from hunting changing places.
via rosso needs a lot of work, that i will not even begin to think about, for it to become a popular area to hunt in.
also i like the idea of the faction guards not affilated with the authorities not shooting unless you pull a gun out, it would be similar to this in real life, although it makes sense for the CA guards to care when a criminal is spotted in the city. whatever to that idea, it could work better at making PP for habitable, lords knows its got the proper feel to give the game what it needs.
anyways, great idea, dev team should look and perhaps put it in with DOY?
ill say 5 stars
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