Stealth VS Runspeed Nerf

[rubaduckythug]

Imo PE's do not need a stealth, its a device made for the weaker class called spys, who dont get anything at all anyways nor do i see mnay if any at all bitching about things like im about to do hehe:p Spys need and should have stealth, Pe's are quite a formidable class if not the best or top 2, So why do Pe's get the option to stealth? Lets give the best or 2nd best class basicly a button that saves there ass " Push in case of almost death" then they stealth off and come back after they have outhealed there opents and start there attack again, then they stealth out b4 they die, and repeat...o_O

Main point here: If Pe's get the option to disapear and run off why cant us tanks have our runspeed nerf removed, the runspeed nerf is comparable to a para halo well a litte faster but thats about as accurate asi can be cuase a tempest dosnt make a dent in run speed half as much as the pa dose. seriously jsut give us tanks our runspeed and then i will be fine with pe's having stealth, its basicly a she got that for christams i want this point. But over all id jsut rather see the stealth taken away from Pe's cuase they dont need it defense wise, i have done test and know that a Pe is more then capable of achiving just as good if not better resist then a tank.

This post is not jsut about me bitching about my tank not liking tha fact of Pe's stealthing away but i think is a common feeling by all the class's even Pe's who dont use stealth and agree its a cheap and unfair item for pes to have, If your gonna fight, fight with honer or some dignity and die like a man not stealth away...

im gonna make a poll 4 this to see wut the mojoraty of players think, as i have played against many Pe's who use stealth but have only talked to those who dont use it about this topic.


EDIT: gd it i missed the box with the poll option, ok dont flame this post jsut add weather or not your for it or not, and your reason/opion

[garyu69]

i love my stealth tool. Gets me out of situations i really don't want to be in.

The PE is the average Char, he really should be allowed access to the Stealth 1 at least.

i choose not to fight a lot of the time because i am not at all setup to fight, so imo should keep stealth.

On comparisson to the Tank Runspeed i cannot comment as i have never been a tank.

[El_MUERkO]

PEs arent over powered they are just good in certain situations and only good then if they are maxed and have alot of lvl 3 imps & assorted rares.

[J. Folsom]

I assume you're talking about the runspeed reduction if you have a cannon out? Shouldn't be too hard to get around, even a crappy setup I made in 5 minutes on test had hardly any speed reduction with his cannon out, and he could easily solo groups of 80/80 mobs without cover, with an all-round average resist setup. Overspeccing agility and athletics easily get's you around your run speed reduction, so there's no real reason to remove it.

So, in short, the runspeed nerf should stay in.

[Judge]

Look if you can't kill a PE with stealth one, who is ACTUALLY trying to kill you as well, then you really need to work out how to.

I know that sometimes PEs who stealth alot can be annoying... but they can't hurt you when they are stealthed... you CAN hurt them. If you shoot the blue shimmering thing with a CS it WILL hurt them, not as much as normal but it will hurt. Also a PE who is just stealthing, stealthing, stealthing isn't really a threat to you is it? Because he doesn't have the time in between stealths to get off a good round of libby or PE to actually use their burst bonuses on you. Another great way of killing PEs is to use the devourer (or whatever rare flamer is) because PEs are normally weak to poison, due to speccing away from it. Use that and not only will you do insane amounts of damage but you will also have a nice green splodge to follow oh and you will do damage to them whilst they are stealthed... DoT old bean and all that.

Anyway, you expect to not to be slowed down when you are carrying a fucking massive cannon?

[El_MUERkO]

What judge said, male's and Doom beamers are your friends also.

[Original monk]

a PE stealthing away everytime he has 10 hp is atleast as annoying as a PPU standing 2 meters further that everytime that pe is on 10 hp gives em a small holy heal ....

PE's have 10x that good defense as a tank and still they stealth away everytime there on 10 hp ... then when they trying to rape you with 4 pe's and you zone they start calling you a "lame zonehopper" .....

well i suggest make all stealth spy only: not only stealth 2 & 3

they allready got enough loving of KK for being a jack off all trades: as soon as the jack of all trades gets better then specialized chars (pure combatchar: tank) then things are going wrong ...

alternative: when they dont make stealth spy-only then theres always the option of making all blessed spells psi-only, i dunno what a PE would prefer...

they even lowerd a SA to suit it for a PE ... 90 dex while 90 dex is easy for spy's to get to and while herc, ds, hawk etc are still 95 ...

my noobhybrid would also like to see DS lowerd to 90 ya see :P

anyways, in my opinion PE's are heavily overpowerd for yust the jack of all trades they are ... OR the hilevelstuff is heavily underpowerd to the specialisationchars that tanks, monks and spy's are ...

I also know that KK will never touch the PE, cause they would have to much whining of the people on this forum ... ( see the nerf the ppu sigs, the rezzurect the liberator sigs and more of that nice stuff)

I fully cap a PE in a day, maybe 2 and i cant say that of my monk ... or spy .... or even tank ... there to easy to level and to play for the allrounderchar they are ... add with that that they can use blessed spells, rolh, or even the heavily overpowerd "auto-aiming" blacksun and the circle is round :)

well anyway, good luck, and nerf the PE stealth :P

a spy has 0 defence (well a regular spy) and he has to scout and snipe, so he has all reason to have a stealth, but why does a PE needs stealth with blessed buffs ???

[Judge]

Originally posted by Original monk
a PE stealthing away everytime he has 10 hp is atleast as annoying as a PPU standing 2 meters further that everytime that pe is on 10 hp gives em a small holy heal ....

You obviously don't play a PE, stealthing on 10hp? Only if they are FUCING lucky. Anyway when I noramlly activate my stealth device is on 100 hp, then by the time that I have actually pulled it out and pressed it I have lost another 50 or so HP, so getting it out and then using it whilst on 10hp (and thus proportionately slower than noraml) would be quite a feat.


Originally posted by Original monk
PE's have 10x that good defense as a tank and still they stealth away everytime there on 10 hp ... then when they trying to rape you with 4 pe's and you zone they start calling you a "lame zonehopper" .....

You like the number 10 don't you.... 10x the defence of a tank. Yeah. Right. What traumatic experience you had with a group of 4 PEs attacking you is not the fault of the entire PE community. Also you expected to win against 4 PEs?


Originally posted by Original monk
they allready got enough loving of KK for being a jack off all trades: as soon as the jack of all trades gets better then specialized chars (pure combatchar: tank) then things are going wrong ...

I don't see why... My PE is PURELY specialised for Combat so why shouldn't I be as good as you. Jack of all trades? Right so it suits you to say that we are the Jack of All trades now... but we shouldn't be able to use the LOWEST level stealth devices?

If we are this so called Jack of all Trades class then what are we supposed to do? Fight? Nope because apparantly we shouldn't be as good as the tank... tradeskiller? Nope because we can never get up to the specialsation that a spy can.... unless we specifically spec EVERYTHING for tradeskill... and then we wouldn't be JoATs would we hmmm....


Originally posted by Original monk
alternative: when they dont make stealth spy-only then theres always the option of making all blessed spells psi-only, i dunno what a PE would prefer...

Awwww did a PE with blessed deflector beat you as well? Well I really wouldn't use any sort of piercing weapon on a PE, as they can spec all of their 60 str levels into resist force, so your gun will do jack shit. Try using the Devourer, that kills PEs and stealthed PEs very fast.


Originally posted by Original monk
they even lowerd a SA to suit it for a PE ... 90 dex while 90 dex is easy for spy's to get to and while herc, ds, hawk etc are still 95 ...

And that has what to do with stealth or tank runtime?



Originally posted by Original monk
my noobhybrid would also like to see DS lowerd to 90 ya see :P

They altered it for a class and not for a certain level of class... you see you can level past that 90 whereas PEs can't level past 80. So technically the DS is easyer for you to get to.


Originally posted by Original monk
anyways, in my opinion PE's are heavily overpowerd for yust the jack of all trades they are ... OR the hilevelstuff is heavily underpowerd to the specialisationchars that tanks, monks and spy's are ...

I don't see how they are overpowered? They have better defence than you... you have better offence than they... you even got two nice new toys. The ravager which can shoot as far as a sniper due to the gay clipping range and the devourer which CAN kill PEs whilst stealthed. So I see no reason why you should be complaining.


Originally posted by Original monk
I also know that KK will never touch the PE, cause they would have to much whining of the people on this forum ... ( see the nerf the ppu sigs, the rezzurect the liberator sigs and more of that nice stuff)

Oh dear, are you still bitter about the PPU nerf. Get over it, PPU monks were saying that they were overpowered as well.... not just PEs. Anyway, consider that maybe we were right to whine about PPUs because they were... well unbalanced.


Originally posted by Original monk
I fully cap a PE in a day, maybe 2 and i cant say that of my monk ... or spy .... or even tank ... there to easy to level and to play for the allrounderchar they are ... add with that that they can use blessed spells, rolh, or even the heavily overpowerd "auto-aiming" blacksun and the circle is round :)

I can cap a PE in 10 months (actually Drikie still isn't capped in cons).... you point? Who gives a fuck if they are easiest to cap. They are the hardest class to setup and play. They rely on speed and reflexes... Blacksun "autoaim"??? Try using an APU monk sometime... they have better offence and have real AUTOAIM as well. They can use ONE blessed spell... blessed deflector which is psi 35... and it isn't even that useful consideirng the amount of resist force that a PE can get to.


Originally posted by Original monk
a spy has 0 defence (well a regular spy) and he has to scout and snipe, so he has all reason to have a stealth, but why does a PE needs stealth with blessed buffs ???

There have been ALOT of people who have shown that a Spy can get almost as good as a PE defence.

Oh and also alot of the Best PEs use drugs... how about you use some drugs and see how good you can get your tank.

[El_MUERkO]

Fight the fight Judge!!!

I'd also like to show you my 3 slot Deflector that I can cast in my PA3 and max the damge on making me pwn, Blessed deflector slows me down and slowing down makes me dead.

[Xian]

How many fucking times has this been discussed?

Put your weapon away when you're chasing a stealthed PE perhaps? Unless you have 5 ath and 2 agl you're not going to be too far behind them. Or, use a mal/moonie/doombeamer - PE's really can't run very far with level 1 stealth. :rolleyes:

[El_MUERkO]

yep we need to be extra sneaky, my favourite is run a bit in one direction then stealth and stand still :D

[Jest]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, as long as parashock exists in the game PEs should have stealth. (Note: I am low tech PE and dont use stealth).

I know how dangerous stealthing PEs can be if they use it correctly, but there are ways of taking them down. I compare it to the nerf poison argument. People want it nerfed because they don't spec for it. The same goes for stealth. People want it nerfed because they seem to not even try to use anti-stealth tactics.

But to address the true intention of your post, unnerfing runspeed for tanks, you cant really just specifically target one class for an ability. The only way to do what you suggest is too like, put more importance on the Con effect of runspeed.

If you are going to generally just unnerf runspeed all together then you are giving a huge boost to PEs. My 110 agility Libby toting PE would bring me back to the early days of retail when fast PEs were gods. I don't think you want that to happen. ;)

[Original monk]

onoz, my post is teared into small little parts lol

and i wonna go play now so i cant respond, gimme a night to think about it ok ... (i allready made apost but deleted it, could get me some flamin and i still wonna be reasonable :P)

about the sigs: i bet if KK nerfs the PE slightly they will get those siggy's again ... and they dont like that ... so they wont nerf :)

so nope i aint mad about ppunerfs: i can still mc5 like usual so they did a good job :)

im still mad about the killing of the hybridclass while that was the most fun class to play with ... (despites some "people" that liked to push hybridsetups to "own" in pvp)

but im getting over that cause i started a new hybrid with all fancy accesoires, expensive but worth it :) certainly if i can go hunt swampcaves again the way i used to and the way i liked it :P
(say hello to ´hanta´ if ya meet em on saturn :P )

for the rest i tell ya in person or i post when im at work tommorow, im tired atm ... but to answer a last question: yeah, i leveld enough PE's and i still have one (altough not on saturn), i even like to kill ppu's with my libby :) atleast if possible that is, maybe with some debuffing help hehe

now i really gotta go check out all my appartments, those threads scared me so i hope everything is still there ...

i think that if only 1 appartment of me is been wiped i gonna get a small nervous breakdown and start doing crazy stuff here irl ..

cu tommorow i really gotta go check im going mad ...

[rubaduckythug]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, as long as parashock exists in the game PEs should have stealth. (Note: I am low tech PE and dont use stealth).

ok you say you dont use it but you think other pe's should be able to as long as para shock remains in the game? wut about the other class's? there jsut as doomed if they get para'd as a pe is or some even more so lol. that dosnt really sound fair to all class's to meo_O

[Xian]

Originally posted by rubaduckythug
ok you say you dont use it but you think other pe's should be able to as long as para shock remains in the game? wut about the other class's? there jsut as doomed if they get para'd as a pe is or some even more so lol. that dosnt really sound fair to all class's to meo_O

Please, show me a PE that can run any kind of considerable distance stealthed whilst they are parashocked. Great, they can pop an antishock drug in the 10 seconds of stealth they have. Still, you have a parashocked PE - it'll take a little time for the antishock drug to work - where the fuck are they going to go? They'll have about 4-5 seconds to run away, where you should be able to immediately open fire on them again.

Oh, that's if they manage to pull the tool out, click it 50 billion times to get it to work and not die in that space of time - all the while remaining glued to the floor.

Might not sound fair to you, but does parashock sound fair to you at all? And a PE is not other classes, it's a mixed bag that has it's own pros and cons, just like every other class.

[ResurgencE]

Hey Hanta. Hows it goin? :)

Just a quick point in response to the following:


add with that that they can use blessed spells, rolh, or even the heavily overpowerd "auto-aiming" blacksun and the circle is round

The blacksun also happens to have its cons, in the sense that its virtually useless against a monk in comparison to the libby.

I also see no problem whatsoever with PEs the way they are now. It takes time and effort to setup a new one, and people are assuming its easy because now that they're experienced players, not only do they know precisely where to power level, but they're also able to outfit their newly-created characters with virtually everything they need with the help of their alts or high-level fellow clanmates. So by definition, EVERY character is easy to level (Except capping the main skills of specialized characters, which is a fair trade for being specialized in it). Even from an RP perspective, you'll find that its always easier and takes less practice to be simply good at something rather than the best. So it makes perfect sense for PEs to cap faster than other classes who far surpass him in their main subskills.

If you strip a PE of stealth as well, i see no difference between him and a tank, besides the blatant difference in combat style. PEs have 40 levels more of int, 10 more dex and 25 more psi, yet you wish to nerf him to the point in which he has to compare his 65 con and 60 str to the 100/100 of the tank? You dont want him to gun vehicles, you dont want him to stealth, you dont want him to cap his heal, you dont want him to have access to fairly good weapons despite the fact that he has to gimp to use them, you dont want him to tradeskill...Then what GOOD is the PE?

Hes no longer a Joat. Hes just a Moat. One you cross over quickly, in order to decide which class you wish to opt for and then move on in that direction.

(Please bear in mind, this is aimed at no one on particular. Merely voicing my opinion in response to what has been stated regarding the PEs over the past month or so.)

[Morris]

What with the PE being NC's pet class right now, any change to them will be met with quite a bit of gnashing of teeth. Same deal as with monks, really.


Originally posted by ResurgencE
If you strip a PE of stealth as well, i see no difference between him and a tank, besides the blatant difference in combat style.

So a PE is, at least in terms of overall balance, a tank with stealth. Wasn't that the original poster's point? :confused:

I'm not saying that PE's shouldn't have stealth at all, but I certainly wouldn't shed a tear if they lost it. I see a lot of PEs who use their stealth activator more often than they use their gun, which is a real shame because it's actually an excellent fighting class. I ran up to a pair of enemy PEs who were ganking levelers at Gab the other day on my pistol spy... popped up next to them and they hit the stealth before I could even draw my gun. I didn't think I was that scary in my blue gimp suit :p

[ResurgencE]

So a PE is, at least in terms of overall balance, a tank with stealth. Wasn't that the original poster's point?

It was. But it certainly wasnt my point. I specifically stated that there would be no difference between the tank and the PE except in the ways that they actually fight.

The comparison being made here is to show that they'd both be pretty dumb, not being able to do pretty much anything BESIDES engage in combat. So what we're essentially asking for, is another tank.

Or in the case of spies being able to spec setups that equal those of PEs, we'd be asking for a dumb spy. :)


I'm not saying that PE's shouldn't have stealth at all, but I certainly wouldn't shed a tear if they lost it. I see a lot of PEs who use their stealth activator more often than they use their gun, which is a real shame because it's actually an excellent fighting class. I ran up to a pair of enemy PEs who were ganking levelers at Gab the other day on my pistol spy... popped up next to them and they hit the stealth before I could even draw my gun. I didn't think I was that scary in my blue gimp suit

Well, mate. Primarily, thats a tactic. A coward is one who runs away from a fight in fear. Stealthing is a strategic retreat. And when the stealth is limited to a mere 10 seconds (Or perhaps more, at the price of gimpage), then it really shouldnt be a problem to counter.

Simply because a PE is a relatively good fighter doesnt make stealthing unbalanced. Stealthing isnt exclusively used for spies to run away. Its also used to silently zone in on the enemy and attack from the rear. By asking for stealth removal, you're destroying the very diversity of the PE that the manual boasts of.

[rubaduckythug]

diversity lol, its over kill when they can use almost any rare they want lol. or a greater majority of every rare, stealthing is a tactic to those who cannot defend them selves (ie spys which have low tolereance to gun fire ^^. Pe's can perfectly well defend them selves lol and so a stealth is a tactic for them you say? so its there tactic to stealth and save there ass or stand there ground and fight like a man. i understand where your comming from with the tactics idea but dont try and say that pes need it for tactics why not let monks and tanks start using stealth then ffs? thats wut i want to here explain why a tank should not get a stealth and a pe should :) wuts the difference? hum... tanks should be the big player who can take all the dmg but now days its even with PE's and tanks theres no difference lmao other then the names and types of weps they use and buffs ect... they both ahve the same opritunity to have equaly good resist. but go on and explain that

[ResurgencE]

but go on and explain that

Alright, you n00b. I think i will. :p


diversity lol, its over kill when they can use almost any rare they want lol. or a greater majority of every rare,

The topic being discussed was restricted to stealth and tank runspeed. You've digressed a tad.


stealthing is a tactic to those who cannot defend them selves (ie spys which have low tolereance to gun fire ^^.

Not all spies have low tolerance for gunfire. So how should we go about deciding which do and which dont? Granted, spies are generally weaker, but i think you've done little more than give us your perspective of stealthing, and nothing further. According to YOU, thats what stealth is all about. According to someone else, it isnt. Why should your perspective take precedence over another paying customer, hmm? ;)


Pe's can perfectly well defend them selves lol and so a stealth is a tactic for them you say? so its there tactic to stealth and save there ass or stand there ground and fight like a man.

I repeat. The only thing that vividly illustrates whether or not you're a "man", in-game, is the fact that you either hold your ground and fight back, or flee. Stealthing and circling an aggressor who attacks you and then moving in for the kill...Is a tactic. And there are many ways to counter a stealther, from dmbing them as a PE, to utilising true sight with a ppu, to AoE with a tank. These are all viable methods to counter a PE with stealth, and since these methods exist, so will stealth.


i understand where your comming from with the tactics idea but dont try and say that pes need it for tactics why not let monks and tanks start using stealth then ffs?

Because monks and tanks are not specialists in those fields. Their expertise lies elsewhere. If a monk could stealth, he'd be incredibly unbalanced because an apu has amazing damage output. The question being asked here proves little, because essentially, each class is a master of only ONE field. But the PE can adapt and emulate a bit of all 3 classes, just not as WELL.


tanks should be the big player who can take all the dmg but now days its even with PE's and tanks theres no difference lmao other then the names and types of weps they use and buffs ect... they both ahve the same opritunity to have equaly good resist.

Heres something we can finally agree on. The ROLH/Stealth-2 combo PEs were discussed elsewhere on this forum, and i do think that a tank should have a better chance to beat a PE 1v1, but the odds shouldnt be astronomical. Why? Because the manual itself states that PEs are JOATs. Meaning they can do everything other classes can do, but simply not as well. The PE doesnt have access to the highest TL weapons in the game in any genre, especially without having to gimp himself.

After the vehicle restrictions for gunning were raised even on mid-level vehicles, we became less of JOATs. Now you wish to get rid of stealth as well? That too, a 10-second stealth which im SUPPOSED to be able to master because its not specialised stealthing like the obliterator. So whats left? If i wish to construct, research, barter, etc...ill make a spy. Healer and rezzer? PPU. PvPer? Apu or tank.

What would you even consider a PE for? All classes can drive without gimping themseleves since two of them can spare the dex, and the other caps dex at a 100. Even THAT requires weakening yourself. So WHY would i wanna go PE?

Now, you and i both know that we enjoy playing our PEs just as they are, Ronky boy. So get ur arse back in game and hand over that 2-slotted shelter u promised me before i put my LE back in and tell everyone we're related.

[rubaduckythug]

call me a n00b and in my post? lol then you start to pick apart everything everyone says, and then you try to say oh well not all spys have weak defenses well of course not, ok dude just shut up and be serious, the majority of spys and thats like 98% are quite weak in defenses. also thats not even part of my point lol stop trying to change the subject by analysing.

[Nvidia]

Make stealth tools SPY-ONLY. There are SO many PEs who won't fight unless they can get every possible advantage on you it makes me want to puke. It makes me EXTREMELY angry when I meet a PE who stealths like... a Stealthing whore? :D

Anyways, let's go over a PE's benefits compared to a spy...
1. Shelter/Blessed Deflector - Need I say more?
2. At the Minimum, Level 2 armor - Some nice resists there
3. Medium Belts - Once again, very nice resists
4. Powerarmor - Adds some nice, BALANCED resists, and doesn't take away much in the process, unless you consider taking off your PA to buff "work".
5. They get enough DEX (with imps) to cap any rare they would need to dominate in almost any situation (sparing PPU encounters).

You have any idea how much those things help make up for little errors you make in the field? A shitload, that's how many. With a spy, there is NO room for error. Unless you spec for level 1 armor, a tank gets behind you and you're not ready, you're fucked.

If spies were even just given access to the shelter without druggage/gimpage, I could make, possibly, a completely uber character, that could kill anyone, when not faced with an APU/PPU combo. So... when I see all these PEs with no skill abuse their stealth tools because they suck too much, EVEN with all the things they can do to help protect against (Shelter/armor/A fair amount of con) and deal massive amounts of damage (blacksun/libby combo), it just makes me wonder, what kind of characted could I create with all that stuff?

I dunno, I've seen (and used) stealth used like a whore before by spies, but after a year of playing one, I know what constitutes stealthing as a whore, and stealthing because 2 shots from anything decent will fuck you up. If you don't have at least a stealth 2 as a spy and a PPU shows up, they're gonna do one of two things to you, A) Damage boost, or B) Parashock. Both will get you killed as a spy if you don't have drugs, and sometimes even when you do have drugs. But I've seen PEs escape the wrath of DB and Para many times.

Anyways, sorry for such a long post. I've just seen too many stealthing PEs lately who suck too much to shoot at you when you're actually facing in their direction. :rolleyes:

[shodanjr_gr]

Ok, for me its simple. PEs SHOULDNT be able to stealth. PEs got shelter, and near tank armor. They got really good resists, and they are fast. They are not supposed to be the stealthy but vulnerable fighter but more like the rank and file soldier in combat (a grunt if they could be called this way). Giving them the near god mode of stealth when they already have the second best defences in the game is quite insane for me at least.
On the other hand, spies do need stealth. Spies are soft, heck an energy beam hit can take a spy down to 1/3 of his health. Spies need stealth to survive, PEs dont.

[ichinin]

This idea totally sucks. Period. Dont do it. PE's are not that overpowered like monks. And tanks run quite fast anyway.

[Leebzie]

I think if they took stealth from me, I might think very seriously about that roll to tank ive been considering. You need to be a damn good PE to outright kill a tank, and it takes more skill (well, at least IMHO, cause ive played tanks (capped) too)

Tanks have Vastly more damage per shot, no matter what weapon the PE is using, and a PE will find it difficult to also spec poison and get the massive resists a tank can get.

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Leebzie
I think if they took stealth from me, I might think very seriously about that roll to tank ive been considering. You need to be a damn good PE to outright kill a tank, and it takes more skill (well, at least IMHO, cause ive played tanks (capped) too)

Tanks have Vastly more damage per shot, no matter what weapon the PE is using, and a PE will find it difficult to also spec poison and get the massive resists a tank can get.

A PE has got shelter, that brings him to rougly the amount of defence a tank has.

[Leebzie]

Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
A PE has got shelter, that brings him to rougly the amount of defence a tank has.

Well, its actually almost a bit more , at least for 2/3 of the main resists. then theres poison, if you use that aswell, your probably going to be taking quite a hit to your 'tank level' resists.

Also bear in mind a pe does not get the huge amount of body health a tank has, so although he can resist about the same amount with his shelt, he cant resist as much.

[ResurgencE]

call me a n00b and in my post?

Was merely kidding with you. Thought i knew you better than that. Regardless, i apologise. Wont happen again.


then you try to say oh well not all spys have weak defenses well of course not, ok dude just shut up and be serious, the majority of spys and thats like 98% are quite weak in defenses.

I am being serious. I had already stated in my previous post that spies are generally weaker, so i dont know how you came to the conclusion that im not a part of that 98%. And since they're such good tradeskillers, i dont think spies really need a boost at this juncture. But i have two points to make here.

1) There's more than one type of stealth tool on the range, so it only makes sense that since its a dex-based item, PEs, who have 80 dex, ought to be able to tackle the mid-level one (I think the 10-second one is more than sufficient for a PE. The 20-second one should be accessible with MORE gimpage than it affords now, otherwise not at all). The higher TL ones should be used for spies who wish to run away when attacked.

The 10-second stealth can mainly be used in fighting due to its short duration. Higher TL stealths last for a long time, so it only makes sense that they be the more viable choice for 'running away', because you cannot draw a weapon whilst stealthed, and if you wish to circle your opponent and attack, it'd take forever. So stealthing isnt as one-dimensional as you portray it.

2) If you think that stealth is the actual problem, then think again. If a PE can spec the exact same resists of a tank, then the problem lies in the fact that a PE shouldnt be as robust as a tank, not in the fact that he can perform a spy function moderately.


also thats not even part of my point lol stop trying to change the subject by analysing.

Im not changing the subject. I responded to everything you claimed quite unambiguously. And how do you expect to carry on a debate without analysis? Stop analyzing my intentions and answer the post.

Or on second thought...Dont bother. I could care less what other nerfs you folks bring to the game. Everytime you master a skill, you call for a nerf to the extent that when BDoY is released, the new players will enjoy nothing of what we did. But of course, this game is all about what you want, so g'wan and ask KK to implement the sledgehammer approach once again. I, for one, dont give a rats arse anymore.

Adios.

[ResurgencE]

No WONDER you were acting so cold towards me. lol....Im sorry, genology. I had you mixed up with an actual in-game friend of mine, and couldnt for the life of me figure out why you took me calling you a n00b so seriously.

Jesus...lol. That explains alot. Sorry, man. My mistake. :D

[Rai Wong]

I am offended, that when I stealth away you call me a stealthing whore, i'm supposed to fight like a man agaisnt a man thats bred for WAR?

Stealthing is barely usefull for the PE it helps sometimes but most of the time its useless, you simply cannot fight while you stealth, opening the stealth activates takes 3 seconds ands thats already neglecting your ability to attack completely. You are lucky if the 10 second stealth gets you to a GR or something.

Contrary to belief PEs just suck at pvp the good resists and fight setup only comes as a result of completely gimping everything else, even vehicle use, our armor is not amazingly impressive, because really both ppus and tanks have better armor, so we are in the middle. Do not compare us fairly with the spy because we cannot do tradeskills unless gimping our combat side completely.

Our psi powers are decent, but we are nowhere near as indestructible as some other posters tried to say, to have good rresists we compensate by having lower health, therefore we really die quickly if you want to stealth and run away you have to do it after 2 or 3 hits otherwise your dead.

Stealth is not even usefull now because of the devourer which kills stealthers quickly. In any given situation tanks are better over PE for PVM they can AOe and serve a better chance in MC5, for PVP they have CS, devourer and ravager, that covers all areas pvp, we can't even run as fast as tanks and you are proposing to remove stealth and remove run speed nerf?

I don't have a proof but believe me as a user of a capped PE I know PEs are nowhere near overpowered compared to monks and tanks. The stealth tool is the only sense of speciality we have as combat PEs, which most PEs are, if you take it away why not make a cannon tank, its simply better in every way.

[ResurgencE]

Couldnt agree with you more. Ive played a capped or high level apu, ppu, rifle spy, droner, pistol PE and tank.

Trust me. PEs are balanced in almost every which way. Even the PE NPC in MC5 states that we're supposed to be quite formidable in combat at higher levels.

Perhaps just slightly increase gimpage required for ROLH/Stealth-2 users, or tweak it a bit here and there. But DONT nerf the PE so harshly. Its like everytime someone gets beaten at combat, they call for a nerf.

Why not just make ALL the classes the same and change the name of the game to Counter-CroN or Neo-Strike.

[ResurgencE]

And for all of those out there who think that PEs fighting tanks can stealth away when they're at half hp, heal themselves and come back to kill the tank whos now at half HP himself...What are you THINKING?

When ur engaged in a combat with an adversary and he makes a strategic retreat, do you simply just stand there motionless and wait for him to come back? The guy has to head ELSEWHERE to heal himself, so you fall back and use a medikit and TL 3 heal yourself.

Jesus, people.