View Full Version : About Stealth Dropping Turrets
shodanjr_gr
26-12-03, 00:51
Since the previous thread was locked for no apparent reason (Got it was a DISCUSSION THREAD about a BALANCE ISSUE, there is nothing to keep in game about it, it affects ALL players) lets discuss the issue here.
Do you consider stealth dropping turrets a lame tactic?
Do you (or your clan) stealth drop turrets?
Do you have any suggestions on fixing the issue?
Discuss, no flaming plz.
Psychoninja
26-12-03, 00:56
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Since the previous thread was locked for no apparent reason (Got it was a DISCUSSION THREAD about a BALANCE ISSUE, there is nothing to keep in game about it, it affects ALL players) lets discuss the issue here.
Do you consider stealth dropping turrets a lame tactic?
Do you (or your clan) stealth drop turrets?
Do you have any suggestions on fixing the issue?
Discuss, no flaming plz.
Agreed. Don't see why the topic was lost, and I don't ussualy question Mods.
All we need to do is add a placement time for the turrets. The insta drop is the problem. I would also like to add a slight Si penalty after it's dropped. maybe 5 - 10%?
Yes.
Nope.
Make turret dropping take at least 20 seconds, and disallow stealth dropping.
The dropping of turrets while stealthed just because the clan is losing an op battle really does make you think "Whats the point?" The attacking clan has gone through preperation, gotten a good fighting force together, hoping to gain a good fight against PEOPLE, not turrets. And what happens? You start fighting, a glimmer of victory appears, followed by the sparks of a stun turret placed at ur feet pushing you into a corner.
I suggest that someone from KK actually come in game to an op battle to experience this "tactic" for themselves on a nightly basis, so they can marvel at its ingenious.
This topics been brought up so many times, im baffled as to why they don't take it seriously. Yes, stealth dropping turrets is lame, and so is instadrop even if you aren't stealthed. Fix it, Fix it now!
Psycho_Soldier
26-12-03, 01:02
Stealth dropping shouldn't be allowed period. Also instadropping should be OK, it's just that the turret shouldn't actually start working for like 20 seconds and in that 20 seconds time a hacker from the enemy team should be able to hack control over the turret to attack the op holders.
Even fighting Order of Turrets on Saturn there has never been a time i can think of where it has caused such a problem as to call for a nerf. Personally i don't think it's lame its mearly another strategy to op holding. TBH your behind the times if you don't use turrets, you have the op why the hell wouldn't you use them? o_O
I do agree on the insta dropping though it should be extended.
___T-X____
26-12-03, 01:12
I think its so hard as a defending clan now u cant turret downstairs and the changes in GR rules etc.
Nah I think it should stay, the advantage should always be with the defending team. And after a couple turrets are stealth dropped, no experienced clan should be suckered over again. You should have left the boundarys of the op and lets the tanks and monks remove them, done some barreling at gogu so they cant get more...adapt...
Edit/ infact if anything, it lengthens the Op fight which most people would see as a good thing, why the hell your not barreling the underground for when they no-Si GR through is questionable with Cath Sanctum running - youd have to ask if you were serious about taking the op at all ?
Edit/ LTA i edited, didnt read your post in time b4 edit was done
heh to say "Adapt to the tactic" well htf can you counter someone who drops a Stun and a Gat in your face while remaining almost untouchable apart from truesight and possibly aoe.
Its a pian in the ass... just make stealth stop you laying turrets?
VVerevvolf
26-12-03, 01:18
I dont know why this odd mod locked my thread.
Anyway, I think 20 seconds dropping time is fine, and no stealth drop.
That should fix the 'fighting-as-many-turrets-which-appear-outta-nowhere-as-enemies' problem.
so who cares if its a stealther. Tanks with shelter can do it so can PPU's. Its the advantage of being on the defence. I love droping a turrent at the end when those PPUs who thing there bad are the only ones left block there way out so people can have there way with them.
Turrents can aid you when things are going sour I see zero problem with it just cause someone lost a fight when it was being used is no reason for a nerf.
Shadow Dancer
26-12-03, 01:23
I think dropping turrets mid-combat is lame, and stealth dropping turrets is lame. Their should be a construction timer, and it should slow you down to a crawl as well.
If you wanna know what is lame coming back after you lose blowing a turrent and running is lame hacking a layer and running is lame. Useing turrents to turn the tide or change a lose to win is not lame.
___T-X____
26-12-03, 01:27
Nah, its shouldnt be a problem, certainly not for a Clan like System Shock anyway, you have massive resources at your disposal last time I was on Pluto.
more often than not when I GR to my op being taken, im reduced to 1/2 health before the black screen sync is even cleared. If it causes you a problem then yoiur should have all members in the underground, with sanctum Cathersis running. I really cant believe people are complaining about it. It sounds like you dont know how to op fight, and I know System Shock are one of the best so im really really surprised at hearing this. It just soudns like alot of people just dont like it, and cant be bother to organise a back-up plan for when a clan starts to do it, or put together a good offence to stop it. Remember - you are the ones that are attacking, you dont have to try to take someone elses Turf
Originally posted by KimmyG
If you wanna know what is lame coming back after you lose blowing a turrent and running is lame hacking a layer and running is lame. Useing turrents to turn the tide or change a lose to win is not lame.
I consider all 3 to show a lack of skill and courage, and class them all to be lame.
___T-X____
26-12-03, 01:31
this makes me laugh, the attackers that are saying that stealth dropping turrets is lame are whining. Your making it sound like you should be able to walk into any op because you are prepared and take it because you think your uber. Unlucky for you if you let a a couple of spies/pe's cause you a problem...seriously, get over it.
Originally posted by Cad
I consider all 3 to show a lack of skill and courage, and class them all to be lame.
I still have zero problem with turrent drops cause sometimes its not clan vs clan more like clan vs faction and then some the turrents just even some things out.
___T-X____
26-12-03, 01:35
nice one kenny, im with u bud
Well clearly you havnt faced turrets in the numbers I have. Try it sometime.
Originally posted by Cad
Well clearly you havnt faced turrets in the numbers I have. Try it sometime.
I been beaten preety bad due to turrent drops and had mass turrents used and won as well. Loseing an op war is not the end of the world. You win some you lose some lose bitch and cry and flame in OOC and go back and try again later.
I for one dont give a flying fuck how shit goes down as long as its a decent fight.
VVerevvolf
26-12-03, 01:44
Well, I concider fighting turrets and some apus behind the stuns not a decend fight.
VVerevvolf
26-12-03, 01:46
Originally posted by KimmyG
I still have zero problem with turrent drops cause sometimes its not clan vs clan more like clan vs faction and then some the turrents just even some things out.
See your point, and its true.
But think of the case the defenders outnumber the attackers, and still use every turret they can get hold off.
Originally posted by VVerevvolf
Well, I concider fighting turrets and some apus behind the stuns not a decend fight.
Pull back a bit and blow the stuns. I am going out on a limb here and seeing how this is probably a fresh lose dont think anyone on your side is gonna say it was a decent fight.
Psycho_Soldier
26-12-03, 01:47
OP fights should be won with skill not how many stun turrets the defending team can drop on the attackers.
Originally posted by Psycho_Soldier
OP fights should be won with skill not how many stun turrets the defending team can drop on the attackers.
Why cant timing and placement of a drop be part of a defenceive stradegy?
Psycho_Soldier
26-12-03, 01:52
Originally posted by KimmyG
Why cant timing and placement of a drop be part of a defenceive stradegy?
It should be, but shouldn't be the deciding factor in winning and losing 90% of the time, which is why it should take 20 seconds for the turret to take effect, it doesn't take skill in timing and placement as it is now. I think it is even possible for 1 stealthing spy to slaughter a whole attacking team if he drops like 7 turrets on them in less than 30 seconds.
Originally posted by Psycho_Soldier
which is why it should take 20
Your dead in 20 seconds.
Anyway monks and tanks whould be able to blast a turrent in no time anyway.
How about you can only stealth-turret if you are using the Obliterator? Oh and put a 20 second construction timer on too.
Lame tactic i agree.
Set 20 seconds on placing is good as people that place with stealth 1 are screwed and stealth 2 is a lot harder.
Maybe make it so that u need 30 cosnt or something to place them as well. Make Factories easier to defend though.
stealth dropping ain't a big problem my tank does it just fine and i can carry a lot more of em ! :D
thing is... the defenders really need to get some sort of edge or else its pointless to try and defend.
___T-X____
26-12-03, 02:17
See your point, and its true.
But think of the case the defenders outnumber the attackers, and still use every turret they can get hold off.
erm dont attack the op if you cant handle losing due to bad tactics, not enough members online, the other clan being tactically good at defending THEIR op, yada yada.Once you take the first level, the second and third should be gone in under 2 minutes, and your saying that the defending clan shouldnt be able to stealth drop turrets, are you for real ?
rawr once again the outnummber thing wasnt really right.. at the start of the fight we had around 7-9 guys....
at the end we had beaten back ss dark nda and brtf....
you should have made the hack or wasted the turrets... but since you did neither.....
I think deacon makes a good point I mean by the time you rally and get there chances are the attackers are already gonna have it fortified and have the UG camp and been on there way to hacking the 2nd layer.
Originally posted by ___T-X____
erm dont attack the op if you cant handle losing due to bad tactics, not enough members online, the other clan being tactically good at defending THEIR op, yada yada.Once you take the first level, the second and third should be gone in under 2 minutes, and your saying that the defending clan shouldnt be able to stealth drop turrets, are you for real ?
Thats hard when the person your attacking usually has more than you on when your on.
{MD}GeistDamnit
26-12-03, 02:32
stealth is supposed to make u unable to attack, placing a turrett is attacking. simple as that.
Originally posted by Birkoff
Thats hard when the person your attacking usually has more than you on when your on.
well every thing cant be easy now can it?
___T-X____
26-12-03, 02:37
Thats hard when the person your attacking usually has more than you on when your on.
Sounds like a whine to me. More doesnt = better.
Successful Op takes ive been involved with have everyone fully PPU buffed before anyone GR's, we know that they can only GR into the underground, so that is Heavyly covered.
The defending clan has probably self-buffed with no ppu, had to mess about with there inventory for 45 seconds to balance their weight thats even if they have a player online with turrets in it, find a GR, wait for others to GR at the same time.
Seriously, you shouldnt be taking longer than this to make the hack if you considered yourself a contender to hold an op, no offence. And btw, I ran a clan of 3 stealth hacking spies on pluto, and on occassion we took (but couldnt hold) ops from under Dark's and Spirits noses, so that doesnt really wash with me cos they normally had min 10 players on when we CHOSE to attack...
stealth is supposed to make u unable to attack
I never read that anywhere, they just made Stealth so that u couldnt shoot with a gun out under stealth, the rest is how Stealth is as Got the Mod has said.
Originally posted by deac
well every thing cant be easy now can it?
Theres easy and theres easy atm we have 5 on and that certain clan has 10 on. I'm rarely on n e more sure to lack of fun in OP wars (nothing to do with PPU NERF) but its the same when ever I log.
BUt thats very OOC so go back to turrets. :)
*Come back NDA :)*
___T-X____
26-12-03, 02:48
they shouldnt have changed the GR rules, its impacted how you defend ops completely...buts thats for another thread. I dont like any of how it is now.
Yes its lame stealth dropping turrets, but why change much just set it so u cant drop turrets in stealth and say maybe 4 seconds when u cant move, u gotta stay by the turret then it works, then u wont be stealthed ull be killed! or ull plant it and ull be kiled in the 4 seconds or ull get lucky and get one down then that will get killed as will u
Simple Solutions For Simple Problems
Tadhg(PE)
___T-X____
26-12-03, 03:01
thats a bit to simple mate...give it abit more thought
Why aint I surprise....
somone in SS,NDA,Dark,BRTF dunno who get his balls kicked by 35% of their attack squad because the defenders use turrets...
You guys are so funny. Yes I agree why can freaking spies activate turrets while stealth? But the part of use turrets omg...
Why not attack another clan w/o 3 allied clans with them...
Stop go in to this forum and whine about it when you get beaten.
shodanjr_gr
26-12-03, 11:22
Originally posted by KimmyG
so who cares if its a stealther. Tanks with shelter can do it so can PPU's. Its the advantage of being on the defence. I love droping a turrent at the end when those PPUs who thing there bad are the only ones left block there way out so people can have there way with them.
Turrents can aid you when things are going sour I see zero problem with it just cause someone lost a fight when it was being used is no reason for a nerf.
Let me give you some information here.
Turrets are STATIC defenses. Static defenses take time to prepare. Their purpose is to hinder the enemy's advance into your base. And thats what they do. But Stealthers insta-dropping turrets, thats against the meaning of static defenses. Noone can instantly pull a bunker out of his ass and thus noone should be able to pull a turret out of his ass and place it.
No use in destroying the turrets since some smartass spy is gona come out of the UG and replant all of them again. It has happened to me many times. My clan having taken over the whole OP, we were trying to take care of a stun that wouldnt allow us to enter the hack room. Then suddenly in the middle of us 4 gats and a stun appear. None can move, everyone but the PPUs get mowed down by the stuns. The PPUs cant move. And before you say anything we were barelling both the UG exit and the GR.
Its a lame tactics and most of the community thinks so.
They should have to put it in the processor window to drop the turret and it should take time to do. Have CST skill offset the timer, so a 100 CST would take 1 second to place, while 0 CST would take 20 seconds.
Also you shouldn't be allowed drop them while stealthed, actually you can't do anything else while dropping them.
Just make the damn turret red while in stealth, how hard can it be?
you know what really pisses me off, its the "Fuckwit Fops's" holy attitude.
They say its 3 clans vs 1
when due to the fact that the fuckwits have what over 100 memebers, and these 3 clans bring what....4 memebers most, so it ends up being a "even" fight.
the "fuckwits" clan needs to thinkcos if it keeps on droping turrets EVERY op fight they go to they WILL be faceing more people then they have on, and i don't blame the attackers as the idea behind it will be "oh the "Fuckwit Fops" will drop a shed load of turrets so we might as well have more people then them"
so why not try a OP fight where u don't have 2 people who have a gogo of turrets,
then agian ur talking about a clan that has people dedicated to nub buff,
Tanks with para lance to push bodies under boxes so u can't rez them,
and but ill stop keep it in game ja.
[editors note "Fuckwit Fops" is used to protect the clan name as its not right to post clan names.
Hmmmm using turrets to make up for lost skill isnt right. If the turret takes say 15 seconds to put down (dont look like long but that is in an op fight, or nearly any fight) and you absolutely cannot do it stealthed, then you deserve to have placed the turret. If you can stand there in the line of fire for 1/4 of a min, that is then the fault of the attacker.
Also , the turret should not just appear when it is complete, People should be able to see you are making a turret.
Originally posted by Ryuben
and but ill stop keep it in game ja.
its bit late for that now right?
whine bitch moan.....
The only rules you have to follow is the ones made by kk now how about a cup of stfu?
___T-X____
26-12-03, 15:23
Tanks with para lance to push bodies under boxes so u can't rez them
thats just made my day, lol
Here's an idea then. How about they only implement the 'lame turret dropping' nerf on Pluto, that seems to be what most people are whining about. Speaking from experience it's not really a massive problem on Saturn, it's an annoyance yes but it's simply an additional thing to do at an op war, rather than running in with 10 monks and killing everyone in 5 minutes. I also retract my comment about the drop time i think it should stay as it is.
So far the only argument for nerfing is that it's 'lame' to drop turrets in stealth. Pity they don't have trip mines still :(
Originally posted by deac
its bit late for that now right?
whine bitch moan.....
The only rules you have to follow is the ones made by kk now how about a cup of stfu?
:lol:
well why can we count 10 peeps vs 3x bodysacks...
just because the clan has 90 members doesnt mean that they are online 24/7....
bha..
Doc Holliday
26-12-03, 19:13
Originally posted by ___T-X____
Nah, its shouldnt be a problem, certainly not for a Clan like System Shock anyway, you have massive resources at your disposal last time I was on Pluto.
more often than not when I GR to my op being taken, im reduced to 1/2 health before the black screen sync is even cleared. If it causes you a problem then yoiur should have all members in the underground, with sanctum Cathersis running. I really cant believe people are complaining about it. It sounds like you dont know how to op fight, and I know System Shock are one of the best so im really really surprised at hearing this. It just soudns like alot of people just dont like it, and cant be bother to organise a back-up plan for when a clan starts to do it, or put together a good offence to stop it. Remember - you are the ones that are attacking, you dont have to try to take someone elses Turf
Amen. Yes stealth turret dropping is annoying but theres a way round it. its called pull your finger out your ass and get 3 hackers all set up ready and waiting to hack the op. ok u gotta wait 30 seconds between barriers granted so u have to be smart but becareful of the turrets. DONT go underground etc and u can beat em at their own game. the turrets turn over to the op controllers and the "lame" tactic is reversed. Its been done to me at op fights by a fully buffed ppu with cath sanctum running on him as well. now thats hard to kill. forget some stealther. i died from the turrets too and had to sit and wait for a rez. its a tactic. it works. However organisation and pre planning instead of buff and run combat does help.
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