View Full Version : Is this honorable or even an abuse?
A friend of mine in my clan asked me to make this post. He is not computer savy and never uses things like forums (hehe).
He was killed by another player in Pepper Park. He was stacked with poison and died while running to his apartment. So far so good.
He then logs on his spy to hack his own belt which is also being hacked by one of the enemies that killed him. It's a hack race and this also seems normal.
But as he comes out of the hack one of the people that killed him is repeatedly inviting him to join a team. This has the same effect as opening the trade window (does not permit you to target any item or runner) yet it cannot be disabled the way that trade can. This was obviously done to prevent him from clicking on the belt he just hacked.
Now we all know that things like noob buffing and rezz killing are not exploits since they use normal features of the game's weapons and spells. However, is taking advantage of an effect in the User Interface permissable behavior? I don't know the answer but I posted the question for discussion as my friend has requested.
He emailed me the following chat log which he sent to abuse@neocron.com along with the screenshot he took. (It took me 20 minutes to help him find it. <sigh> It is so hard talking people through simple taskes when they don't know the basics of PCs and files).
12-23-2003 08:21:12 > NameRemovedByMe1 : lmao
12-23-2003 08:21:21 > OMG I am reporting you ****
12-23-2003 08:21:27 > NameRemovedByMe1 : for what?
12-23-2003 08:21:28 > NameRemovedByMe2 : for what ?
12-23-2003 08:21:31 > that is the lamest thing i have ever seen
12-23-2003 08:21:36 > NameRemovedByMe2 : right
12-23-2003 08:21:38 > NameRemovedByMe2 : report him
12-23-2003 08:21:43 > NameRemovedByMe 1: for?
12-23-2003 08:21:48 > it ok i have a screen you invited me 3 times to tea team
12-23-2003 08:21:53 > NameRemovedByMe1 : yea
12-23-2003 08:21:56 > to prevent ghetting belt
12-23-2003 08:21:57 > NameRemovedByMe1: what's wrong with that
12-23-2003 08:22:00 > NameRemovedByMe1: nope
12-23-2003 08:22:00 > NameRemovedByMe2: he likes u
12-23-2003 08:22:02 > NameRemovedByMe2: he wantws to team u
12-23-2003 08:22:03 > we'll see
12-23-2003 08:22:03 > NameRemovedByMe2: it was so you could click yes
12-23-2003 08:22:03 > NameRemovedByMe2: ;))
12-23-2003 08:22:04 > NameRemovedByMe2: rawr
12-23-2003 08:22:04 > NameRemovedByMe1: fool
12-23-2003 08:22:10 > NameRemovedByMe1: everyone wants to report players these days
12-23-2003 08:22:12 > NameRemovedByMe1: it's pathetic
12-23-2003 08:22:18 > you were always a cool guy in my book but now a total prick
12-23-2003 08:22:23 > NameRemovedByMe1: oh shut up
12-23-2003 08:22:23 > NameRemovedByMe1: idiot
12-23-2003 08:22:27 > NameRemovedByMe2: and what iam
12-23-2003 08:22:27 > NameRemovedByMe2: n ur
12-23-2003 08:22:28 > NameRemovedByMe2: book ??
12-23-2003 08:22:50 > NameRemovedByMe1: fuck you asshole
Introduce your friend to Alt + K......
Alt + K is for trade, this guy got invited to a team.
I would've just joined the team and grabbed the belt before leaving straight afterwards. But, your friend obviously didn't. I would leave this up to KK.
I dont think team invite denys you the ability to open a belt.
ALT+K only prevents trade, not team invites. And if you don't have anyone else you can be in a team with, then you're buggered.
Not too sure if that is a 'sploit though :|
EDIT: Damn too fast :P
Anyway, by joining the team, that guy might kill you and then grab whatever you dropped in your belt.. so it's like a no-win situation.
Eddie
there should be a way to block team invites, like alt+k blocks trades
but reporting him is a waste of your own time, theres no way you can prove he wasn't simply trying to team you just because he wanted to be in your team
trying to get people banned = lam0r
Originally posted by Spoon
Introduce your friend to Alt + K......
It wasnt trade, it was team invite, same problem created, different method of making it.
As for whether its abuse or not, Its up to GM's to decide and you shouldn't have posted this here, the community has absolutley no say in it.
It was fuckin lame though. (assuming the team invite box stops you from accessing the belt)
Originally posted by g0rt
trying to get people banned = lam0r
I wouldn't go that far. I would say that he is highlighting possible aspects of the game that need re-thinking in the light of what other people might use it for.
Eddie
maybe he should have GRed to jones and ran and grabed his belt
Its the fact that after he'd hacked it, he wouldnt be able to open it, he's gotta open RPOS and click on deny, instead of just breaking trade with tab . . .
Originally posted by g0rt
trying to get people banned = lam0r
I doubt he is trying to get anyone banned. He likes to play in PP and realizes that sometimes he will lose an item in PP to an enemy hacker. He was mad because this went beyond that...taking advantage of the user interface. KK allows trade to be disabled precisely because they know it can be abused in this way yet they don't allow team invites to be disabled. Either way, he told me who did it and I am surprised. We are not talking about some noob but a veteran player. I was very surprised.
Originally posted by Spoon
Introduce your friend to Alt + K......
Introduce you to your friend 'reading the thread'....
Yeah, that along with the trade thing are lame, its good that you can stop the trade thing though. I say let alt+K work for team invite as well.
Originally posted by RayBob
I doubt he is trying to get anyone banned. He likes to play in PP and realizes that sometimes he will lose an item in PP to an enemy hacker. He was mad because this went beyond that...taking advantage of the user interface. KK allows trade to be disabled precisely because they know it can be abused in this way yet they don't allow team invites to be disabled. Either way, he told me who did it and I am surprised. We are not talking about some noob but a veteran player. I was very surprised.
Then talk to a GM or Dev about adding a team block dont go to abuse.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Then talk to a GM or Dev about adding a team block dont go to abuse.
How do you do that? (I don't know how to contact GMs/Devs...stop laughing. ):(
Originally posted by RayBob
How do you do that? (I don't know how to contact GMs/Devs...stop laughing. ):(
PM a mod hit IRC check the website for the right email address.
Yes - it's lame as hell.
Yes - it's an abuse of an unintended game mechanic.
No - it's not a reportable/bannable offence. Similar to the n00b buff debate.
Yes - it needs to be addressed in the same way Alt+K/trade window spamming was.
but what is your fucking point, invite to a team does not mean you cant click your belt, you fucking imbasile.....omfg what a set of absolute fucking idoits complain about this fucking game...jesus............................
fuck off
Originally posted by g0rt
trying to get people banned = lam0r
I disgree if someone does something wrong and out with the rules they need to be punished. Yes trying to get people banned for no fair reason isn't right, however if your unsure then thats what the the abuse email is for as well, kk will decide.
All games have rules for a reason the lamers are the ones who break them.
Shadow Dancer
23-12-03, 20:32
*puts flame gear*
Yes I was inviting him to team. No I wasn't trying to block him from getting the belt, that didn't even occur to me. I was trying to get him in team so I could get the belt. Although it was later on I realized that he couldn't have been in a team with the dead guy because the dead guy had logged. So I can understand why he ASSUMED I was trying to prevent him from getting the belt.
Also, their are a couple of reasons I insulted him. First, the whole "OMFG I"M GONNA REPORT YOU FOR THROWING STAM BOOSTERS AT ME" attitude. Some players will report you for any little thing these days. Secondly, it's hypocritical. His clan has done many lame things or things that can be considered lame. He lost all respect for me after doing this? Yea ok. :rolleyes: What a silly exaggeration. I'll tell you what's lame. Having a PPU alt hiding in a safezone, then having your APU alt running to him for buffs, heals, shields, then running to pp1 and fighting whoever is there. Sure their is technically nothing wrong with it, but in my eyes it's lame. And the person I killed was guilty of doing that yesterday.
Wanna know what else is lame? Bringing 2 ppus to pp1 to fight me and my friend who have no ppu. Wanna know what else is lame? Talking shit. Just basic shit talking after fighting for whatever reason. "omfg I owned yer ass" and other great comments. Paraspam is lame. etc....
Their are many lame things in this game. If I was to totally cut people off and "lose all respect" ( :rolleyes: ) for them for doing any of these things, I would be talking to no one. So please get the hell off your high horse with this "honorable" crap. I'm so tired of these people with their "honor" system and "value" system who do equally lame stuff that's just different but isn't lame in THEIR eyes.
And that's all I have to say about this subject. And Raybob, if you "lose all respect" for someone over this, all I have to say is grow up. I bet you have no problem talking to your clan members, some of which have done some lamer stuff.
Boy, Pluto is a barrel of laughs these days.
Btw, this isn't an exploit. I don't exploit. I did do an exploit, UNKNOWNINGLY, once. But I stopped after I found out. I don't purposefully use exploits. Don't even try and include me with the REAL cheators and exploiters out there. But yes please try and get me banned, I'm an evil bad man. :rolleyes:
EDIT: Well Ray, it seems you weren't the one who said that. Oops. Well my point still stands though. And yea I shouldn't have insulted him, I lost my cool. But the hypocrisy on pluto is getting on my nerves these days.
The only way to stop that is the put the person trying to do that into IGNORE. That way you won't get the message. I did this when some PK who I killed was doing the same to me in Plaza.
Guess he kinda lost his cool when he was killed by a tradeskill spy ^^
So alt-k for trade and ignore for teaming.
// Wannabe
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
[B First, the whole "OMFG I"M GONNA REPORT YOU FOR THROWING STAM BOOSTERS AT ME" attitude. Some players will report you for any little thing these days. [/B]
Was it you or your mate reporting someone for the alt-PPU thing yesterday?
Maybe it was another incident (and I only saw the IRC fallout) but it sounds very similar.
Shadow Dancer
23-12-03, 20:48
Originally posted by jernau
Was it you or your mate reporting someone for the alt-PPU thing yesterday?
Why would I report someone for alt-ppu? THat's not even an exploit. o_O
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Why would I report someone for alt-ppu? THat's not even an exploit. o_O
Fair enough, apologies if it wasn't you.
Someone claimed they did however and you seemed to have taken offence to it.
Originally posted by g0rt
there should be a way to block team invites, like alt+k blocks trades
but reporting him is a waste of your own time, theres no way you can prove he wasn't simply trying to team you just because he wanted to be in your team
trying to get people banned = lam0r
but when some one invites u to a team and u say no and they spam u and u keep saying no, but they still keep trying to invite u thats harrasment and in this instant it should be classed as an exploit as they were using a the game mechanics to interfere with the guy as he was trying to loot his own belt
Shadow Dancer
23-12-03, 22:27
Originally posted by jernau
Fair enough, apologies if it wasn't you.
Someone claimed they did however and you seemed to have taken offence to it.
It's alright.
Originally posted by Shakari
but when some one invites u to a team and u say no and they spam u and u keep saying no, but they still keep trying to invite u thats harrasment and in this instant it should be classed as an exploit as they were using a the game mechanics to interfere with the guy as he was trying to loot his own belt
I already told you why I kept teaming him. And if THAT is considered harassment, oh boy, the amount of peole I Can get banned in that case........... :lol:
What about his ppu yesterday who called me gay and kept spamming that on trade along with cryer, noob, and other crap he kept spamming.
People don't even know what the hell an exploit is anymore.
Sometimes i feel like having alts on a one char server is an exploit. :rolleyes:
This whole thread is a joke.
I think thats a pritty flimsy excuse, This is a cyberpunk world and a cyberpunk game it allows you to play and asshole if you want but if thats the way you wana play at least play consistantly so people know to put you on ignore. I think the whole episode is pritty reprehensible and your continued attempts to deflect the issue and de-rail the thread into a flamewar to get it closed are pritty childish too, be a man and accept responsability for your actions. If you want to use dirty tricks and roleplay that sort of character then do it properly, at least people will respect you for doing it well, hell if your still Tsunami as i remember that type of character would even be acceptable. but please dont cry about other peoples hypocracy.
Shadow Dancer
23-12-03, 23:28
Originally posted by Nivag
I think thats a pritty flimsy excuse, This is a cyberpunk world and a cyberpunk game it allows you to play and asshole if you want but if thats the way you wana play at least play consistantly so people know to put you on ignore. I think the whole episode is pritty reprehensible and your continued attempts to deflect the issue and de-rail the thread into a flamewar to get it closed are pritty childish too, be a man and accept responsability for your actions. If you want to use dirty tricks and roleplay that sort of character then do it properly, at least people will respect you for doing it well, hell if your still Tsunami as i remember that type of character would even be acceptable. but please dont cry about other peoples hypocracy.
Wow, did you read anything?
I already took responsibility for my actions. What are you talking about? And how on earth am I trying to derail the thread or deflect the issue? I was expressing my opinion. I ALREADY responded to it. I already said *I* did it. What the hell more do you want? I don't feel bad nor am I trying to justify it. Becuase I don't feel it needs justifying. I'm just trying to point out the immense hypocrisy. I wasn't trying to throw the thread into a flame war. You simply are ignoring the point I'm making and choosing to flame me AND provoke me. It looks like YOU'RE the one trying to turn it into a flamewar. It's obvious you're only reacting like this because of what I did in-game.
Thanks for missing the point genius. :rolleyes:
Yes I was inviting him to team. No I wasn't trying to block him from getting the belt, that didn't even occur to me. I was trying to get him in team so I could get the belt. Although it was later on I realized that he couldn't have been in a team with the dead guy because the dead guy had logged. So I can understand why he ASSUMED I was trying to prevent him from getting the belt.
Thats the bit i read, the rest is just the usual pluto "no your the bad guy" bullshit. My point is if you didnt realise, then give him his stuff back thats fair. OR if you do realise what you did, then by all means keep the stuff but dont say "im not the bad guy here im not doing anything wrong". The invite team "exploit" is just as bad as trading someone. Look at mike he even got me with the trade 'sploit when i was hacking belts, everyone knows where hes coming from and after you get over the initial frustration its pritty funny because he just doesnt give a shit. that is how to do it my friend not "i didnt realise what i was doing but i still kept his stuff".
Wow, that is the lamest thing i've ever heard of.
um.. the team box dosnt stop you from clicking on stuff.... you could have left the box up, opened and taken your belt without a problem. i usta always hunt with the team window open when someone would team me when i was in the middle of killing something.
Since you can still move and click objects i wouldnt consider it to be an exploit... But it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a "Disable Team Invite Button" maybe it should be passed on...
--
This is definitely a hot topic but, it's not exempt from the rules.
Express yourself without breaking them; hence Flames.
--
Gungnir
Originally posted by Carbonite
Since you can still move and click objects i wouldnt consider it to be an exploit... But it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a "Disable Team Invite Button" maybe it should be passed on...
I'd also like to add something that can be added to disable clan invites as well, maybe a "disable all invites." I've been out fighting and been spammed with clan invites, it can really ruin your rhythme.
Originally posted by bounty
I'd also like to add something that can be added to disable clan invites as well, maybe a "disable all invites." I've been out fighting and been spammed with clan invites, it can really ruin your rhythme.
I'll note that and pass it on ;)
I thought you could only send clan invites to people on your local list.
Originally posted by RayBob
He then logs on his spy to hack his own belt which is also being hacked by one of the enemies that killed him. It's a hack race and this also seems normal.
And why didn't he shoot the hacker? o_O
im pretty sure he died outside pp, otherwise, why would his enemies invite him to team agani instead of killing him once more?
If it was a safe zone why not go back on the same character instead of logging an alt?
smokes on saturn did that to me! :o
he took syreus wyatt earp!!
we were gonna hack a redguys belt, that syreus had killed.
so smokes is all friendly and shit...when ive hacked... he does the team trick, and steals the loot... then he runs like hell from us!
wonder how he felt when he realized that he just stole a 0 slotted wyatt earp? =)
Shadow Dancer
24-12-03, 04:12
Originally posted by jernau
If it was a safe zone why not go back on the same character instead of logging an alt?
I can only guess that it was because he wanted to get rezzed later on but decided to get his belt first. Basically facing absolutly no penalty of death like 90% of the people on pluto with 3208472308 ppu friends or 30 alts.
Originally posted by Wannabe
The only way to stop that is the put the person trying to do that into IGNORE. That way you won't get the message. I did this when some PK who I killed was doing the same to me in Plaza.Good advice. Thanks.
Shadow...I was careful to leave your name out of this because I did not want this to turn into a flame war. My friend Rick (Grievance/Daflex) is a very nice guy whom I have been gaming with for over 4 years. He is absolutely NOT a shit talker and I challenge you to produce any such comments by him.
You have no right to bring up any "well his clan does such lame shit he deserved it" arguments. People are responsible for their own actions and every single one of us knows how difficult it is to control the actions of clan members. No matter how hard you try to establish and enforce rules & standards of behavior…there will be exceptions.
Also, don't bring up any so-called lame PP fighting tactics. Everyone who fights at PP knows exactly what they are getting themselves in to. People will zone in and out, bring PPUs, use soul clusters, use barrels, use noob buffs, zone into the sewer, etc. etc. etc. I have personally watched you crouch by the Tsunami guards so that your enemy will accidentally target them and be destroyed by a 120/120 flamer. Deny it with your last breath but I have seen it with my own eyes. PP fighting tactics and clan politics are not the subject of this thread so please stop bringing them up as some sort of justification for what you did.
If any person from any clan (or unclanned) does something that one believes is an exploit we all have a right and responsibility to report it. The GMs will make the decision. Neither you nor I nor Rick will make that decision. There is no hypocrisy whatsoever.
A short time ago, the GMs decided that placing turrets in the UG of an OP was an exploit because the game code was not properly handling the switching of OP ownership. They made this decision and enforced it until the developers had time to fix the code. I think they should do the same in this case but that is up to them. I seriously doubt that the team invitation window was intended to be used in this manner.
Personally, I have a hard time believing that an experienced player such as yourself was innocently inviting someone to team, but that is not important either.
Originally posted by Carbonite
Since you can still move and click objects i wouldnt consider it to be an exploit... But it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a "Disable Team Invite Button" maybe it should be passed on...I guess he didn't realize he could still click on the belt while the team invite window was up. It seems like a natural reaction to close the window. If you could pass this suggestion along to the devs that would be nice.
Ray
When stuff like that you described happen, just press TAB to close the RPos, do NOT answer "Yes" or "No" so the question is still there when opening up RPOS again, that way you wont be bothered by invites etc... You learn a thing when leveling up with noobs in the aggies :)
As for that "Auto deny" thing, It have been asked for earlier.
Mr Friendly
25-12-03, 05:27
Originally posted by Spoon
Introduce your friend to Alt + K......
as he also informed u, this is no exploit, no abuse of a bug or glitch on the system, etc. it can easily be stopped by the alt + k option.
also to invite to team, it doesnt stop u from moving or open RPOS, meaning u can still run around, click objects, & all.....only thing he's done is put a small box in the middle of ur screen, which u can easily get rid of by opening RPOS then closing it.
if u decide to get rid of the box first, o/w, that was ur choice & the loss of ur belt is ur punishment :)
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