View Full Version : Should corpses have a auto-gr timer?
Shadow Dancer
20-12-03, 09:51
While the ressurection nerf did solve some of the problem with rezzing, it didn't solve all of it. There's still the issue of one person staying dead(or several) while they call 1-2-3-4 as many ppus as it takes to get them rezzed. Doesn't anyone ever die anymore?
I can't believe the number of people who will stay dead for up to 20 minutes waiting to be ressed by a friend/alt/clan/god/etc....
The other thing that confuses me, is the way so many people claim death should have meaning or should have some real consequence. But then in-game the majority of people get ressed most of the time. :confused:
The rezz nerf helps, but it also just makes several ppus come and try to rezz the fallen people. One ppu to heal and buff the ppu who is ressing. Or 2 ppus. It's rediculous. There's been occassions where i've seen up to 5 ppus come to rez their "army".
Here's a crystal clear example. A few days ago, me and my friend managed to kill a PPU. Now he stays dead and doesn't GR. And when that happens, well you know. The calvalry comes in. :rolleyes: A ppu comes and attempts to rez. Me and my friend fend him off. This happens for like 5 minutes. Finally he gives up and runs away. Then he comes back with another ppu. So both ppus are attempting to rez. My ass is working overtime to try and keep them from rezzing, lol. It was extremely difficult, but we managed to run both off. They did pull a rezz twice i think, but we killed the corpse again(just barely.....).
My friend then became red and decided to leave. This all took place over the course of like 10-15 minutes. Maybe more. Finally I got tired of fending both ppus off and decided to let yet another victim get a nice little get out of jail free card. They had both left and the corpse was still there, I knew they were coming back so I left.
On my way to leave I saw both of them coming with an apu. :rolleyes:
SO I ask you, don't you think that's lame?:lol:
Basically what i'm saying is the rezz nerf solves one half of the problem, but in a way it makes ppus more needed. bleh.
So I propose an auto-gr timer where the corpse auto-grs to it's apt after a certain amount of time, OR where it can't be rezzed but can still watch the action.
It could be 3 or 5 minutes, one of those. PvM wise I think that's enough, and it balances out PvP wise as well.
If you say "what if the whole cave team dies"(favorite example by many apparently), then I say this.............. death is supposed to be a bad thing. I really do think people have gotten mega spoiled by it. If your whole cave team dies under the supervision of a PPU, then the PPU is really bad OR you guys got careless. Way more often than not, it's the latter. People can be all cautious and careful in a cave team without a ppu, when the PPU shows up.......... BLAM............ 4-5 corpses easily. Because they "know" they'll get ressed, instead it should be "maybe i'll get ressed" IMO.
So what's your opinion?
Psycho_Soldier
20-12-03, 10:11
It should also include the time when someone logs out, meaning, they can't log out when dead and come back the next day expecting to get rezzed.
well 20 mins is a problem because when u in a OP fight or hidden in a cave ...
it should if u logout for more them one hour when u dead or something like loosing XP on you mainstat for every 5 minutes dead
If that person wanne wait for a rezz thats his problem. I dont see where u could have a problem shadow dancer.
I say 10min shadow . . . there are times where it's a lil tough to get to the body again and rez times can be extremely slow for low level PPUs. Also you know how timers go in NC . . where you sometimes get a mission and just 1min and it pops . . mission failed .. lol
Sefran
the problem lies in that if you can't get rez'd withing a certain time you should suffer actual DEATH penatly . . . everyone is spoiled with Rez cause it's too simple to be brought back to life. as was said .. . I've been in non-ppu cave teams and everyone is using stragey .. . we work together as a team helping each other out . . as soon as a ppu gets there and buffs people. .they become instant idiots just running into the midst of the mobs . ..and they die. And they do this .. cause there is no penatly for dying . it doesn't matter . .as long as the PPU is there to give them a Rez.
Throw in a Timer .. I wouldn't mind .. and hell .. how about after a certain level (don't want this to effect begining characters) have death make you lose some XP even if you ARE rez'd .. although i'm sure alot would fight for that not to happen :p .. .I'd settle for the if you don't GR out before Auto GR then you will lose XP :D
Shadow Dancer
20-12-03, 11:35
Originally posted by amfest
Also you know how timers go in NC . . where you sometimes get a mission and just 1min and it pops . . mission failed .. lol
lmao I hate that. Would suck if it happened for the corpse. :p
If u would put this in game many ppl would get pissed off and prolly quit , so stop these fucking annoying bitching threads ,if u wanne lay there dead u lay dead.....give it a bit realism....this is not a magical game of warlocks and dragons.
Shadow Dancer
20-12-03, 11:40
Originally posted by Sefran
if u wanne lay there dead u lay dead.....give it a bit realism
Laying their dead, "consciously" waiting for someone to come and bring you back to life............ that's realism?
Originally posted by Sefran
If u would put this in game many ppl would get pissed off and prolly quit ,
Yes I know, people always say/threaten that.
Originally posted by Sefran
so stop these fucking annoying bitching threads ,
Don't like it, don't read it. Fairly simple right?
Can you imagine a PPU starting up rez right after death . .and then it auto GRs . . next person dies . happens again .. till it's just the PPU left :D
oh wait . . .EOF
*delete* PPU
:D
SD, this is not lame; in fact things like that had been expected with these long resurrection times.
I voted "no" as the whole resurrection-thingy looks more like a workaround to me than an actual "bug"-fix. Staying around for like 40 seconds and more just to resurrect someone is ridiculous, I mean I only cast this spell now when I have to take a small break from NC ;)
I still think reintroducing SI for the rezzed people is the best solution to the resurrection problem, you can bring the people back relatively fast (with casting times like they were before the patch), but with an SI of about 20% after the resurrection they either have the "after-rez"-equipment with them or have to find a safe spot, as they are an easy target normally. This SI adds up, naturally (so if you die with like 5% SI you have 25% in the end).
It's kinda interesting that in the end it's almost always the PPU class which gets penalized. I got often asked to resurrect someone ("can you rez my friend/alt/..., (s)he is dead right here"). The big problem of the rez spell was not the speed but the fact the rezzed people got alive and could start firing away as if nothing happened.
But in the end I'm stuck with the decision of KK and this ridiculous long casting time. PPU's who just reached PSI 55 to finally be able to resurrect other players have to wait about one minute before the dead player is brought back alive. Sometimes you are in a difficult situation, which means you either have to kill all the nearby mobs/players and/or have to lure them away. This isn't solved in a matter of seconds, normally it takes a few minutes to do so. As a result your auto-gr timer has a minimum of about 2 minutes, but most probably it has to be much higher (> 5 minutes). Lower delays will piss off a lot of players (especially in hunting situations).
Conclusion: Either get rid of the resurrection spell or fix it, but don't add even more "workarounds".
Shadow Dancer
20-12-03, 11:49
Btw spex a capped holy ressurect takes 24 seconds IIRC.
Yupp, but creating the game only around the capped characters is kinda stupid, don't you think? If your auto-gr-timer is set to one minute all these PPUs who are just reached the "I can rez"-level don't even need to think about resurrecting a player ...
PS: you can be even PSI-capped without being able to cap the Holy Resurrection spell ...
that's why i suggested 10 min
Setting it to 10 minutes renders SD original intention behind the idea useless. But setting it to lower delays is not really good either (as discussed already). I think the conclusion of this should be clear :p
actually he was talking about how many people will stay like 20 mins . .. so 10 would cut that in half .. andthey would have to GR away and DIE (for real this time)
and then he talked about fending ppu, PPUs for 10-15 min . .. so ifthey ffought and worked at it for 10 mins. . there .. . game over ... PPU lost .. person who was killed GAME OVER . .. the people who won . get to stay winners
People who Hunt will have to be more careful rather than just run in and die.
I'm all for corpse timers. People wait ridiculously long amounts of time for a rez, just so their precious imps don't pop. I can see lots of ppl yelling at their ppu's
'why the hell didn't you rez me?!'
'you ran right at the blood viper king'
'so? you're a ppu!'
'right....'
'Poke me'
'I don't poke...'
'OMG you're worthless! horrible ppu!'
I think though, there should be some indicator that the corpse is about to dissolve. Maybe at 30s or 1min left, the corpse degrades some. That way the ppu and others around know, they don't have much time left. This would help the ppu so she doesn't start up a rez when the corpse is going to dissolve before she's done.
Rez Impair isn't enough. Rez used to give impair, back when Tanks dominated nc. Just as people find ways to be combat ready as soon as they gr in, they were combat ready after a rez. I know some of our tanks had it so they could use their TGC almost right after I ressurected them. I even carry around a couple mid level spells which I can use right out of GR. I'm glad they got rid of that, it totaly defeats the purpose of impair if people can still be combat ready right after rez.
I can imagine a situation that I'm not sure if it would be a good or bad thing, using the corpse timers. Managing to pull of a rez on the target will bring him back to life and reset the counter, so even if he dies again immediatly, you've bought yourself another 10 minutes to try again. I kind of like this, as it gives value to your rez even if they fall over dead again. Nothing is worse then waiting 30s, or even 60s for the lower lvl ppus, and then having the guy die again.
I just remembered something, Rez killing was an issue kk was going to look into. I recall them saying that rez killing will be legal until they patch the game to provide a mechanism to stop it. The mechanism, as I recall, was confusing to understand. But I think it was basicly an option each player can flip on or off. If you leave it on, then your corpse stays there. If you turn it off, then you're auto gr'd to your apt when you die. Basicly it lets you stay to be rezzed or just suck it up and go to your apt. I know this isn't a solution to corpses staying too long, but I wonder what happened to this initiative.
Shadow Dancer
21-12-03, 15:16
I never understood the problem with rez killing.
I mean you hafta be careless to be afk in or near a place you can be ress killed..............
i honestly can't see why they don't remove ressurection from the game entirely. you may or may not feel that death should mean something, but you should at least agree that when you're dead you're dead.
PPUs should be there to help prevent you from dieing, period. if they don't do their job right, or if you don't do yours, you die. 10 minutes later you can be back where you started anyway.
and levelling in caves? it seems to be far too easy right now to sit under a PPU and get huge xp for zero risk, and too quickly at that.
and how exactly do you call for a ress when you're dead and supposedly unable to communcate in-game? they even removed an exploit that allowed you to do this, since it was indeed an exploit. but the way you do it, of course, is log another char and cry for help, or shout over teamspeak. which is fine if you have a TS server, play on a multi-char server or have multiple accounts. for those that don't, and/or those who respect the game-mechanics, you have to die within sight of your PPU to get a ress.
my entire time in this game (well over a year now) i've been ressed less than 10 times. i've played PEs, combat spys and MC tanks and even with those poor odds i've managed to level them to cap without a ress, or even without a PPU at all.
we rely too much on our PPUs. let's face it, we're getting soft if we can't even accept a minor limitation on the ress.
Colt Starling
21-12-03, 20:12
Originally posted by Sefran
If u would put this in game many ppl would get pissed off and prolly quit , so stop these fucking annoying bitching threads ,if u wanne lay there dead u lay dead.....give it a bit realism....this is not a magical game of warlocks and dragons.
LOL... and being able to rez someone is realistic?
I can see both sides of the argument here as yea.. if someone wants to wait for a rez so be it. The problem comes in when people use team speak etc to report activity to the rest of their clan during OP wars etc. That suxxorz big time.
Yes im pro this idea for sure I am not a fan of people launching an attack at an op, or attacking a lvling group and gets killed and just logs off and logs on an other char and will wait days to get rez'ed if needed.
Heavyporker
22-12-03, 03:03
I still belive that after 2 minutes, the death screen should black-out...
and THEN an 8 minute timer for auto-gring.
That way, a lot of bullshit would be ended.
Yes, it may make everyone unhappy, but as Samuel Clemens says, that's compromise.
i think rezzing is fine but then again im a ppu.
i think SD is just mad because he cant always kill a ppu thats rezzing. (btw shadow, when your debuffing a ppu that is rezzing newb buffing him isnt bad because it still takes away dmg, just a tip).
the whole rez thing is just fine. would you stop complaining about rez jesus. its really ballanced now. and if you cant take a ppu out when he sits still for 24 seconds then there is something wrong with YOU not REZ.
and i told you the whole 2 ppu thing would happen when you were all happy about the nerf. and if you have a body auto gr that just means they will log out untile they can get a rez. then you will siguest something stupid that if you log of you auto gr. so then there will be more shit about how you just die and then while getting rezed you die sometime and youve auto gred. this idea just does not work. ok give it up.
Originally posted by Colt Starling
LOL... and being able to rez someone is realistic?
I can see both sides of the argument here as yea.. if someone wants to wait for a rez so be it. The problem comes in when people use team speak etc to report activity to the rest of their clan during OP wars etc. That suxxorz big time.
no worse then the LE people. then again you can always drop turrets on them. (which is SO funny btw)
*le newb laughing at you cus you cant kill him without exploiting*
you run to gogo
*gives you an odd look*
you drop stun then a gat
*le newb gets pwned*
woot
Shadow Dancer
22-12-03, 06:59
Originally posted by SovKhan
i think rezzing is fine but then again im a ppu.
i think SD is just mad because he cant always kill a ppu thats rezzing. (btw shadow, when your debuffing a ppu that is rezzing newb buffing him isnt bad because it still takes away dmg, just a tip).
1. I can kill a rezzing ppu just fine.
2.I don't need your tips trust me. :lol:
3.Do you have anything to add to the thread other than assumptions about me? No? Surprise!
Originally posted by SovKhan
ok give it up.
Nope, not until ppus are balanced. Which they are still far from.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
1. I can kill a rezzing ppu just fine.
2.I don't need your tips trust me. :lol:
3.Do you have anything to add to the thread other than assumptions about me? No? Surprise!
maybe now that your pure again you could. but i do remember sitting still for 24 seconds while you debuffed newb sheltered me and shot me with holy halo untile my friend was rezzed in pp1. and i didnt die. so apperntly you do need tips. and i dont have to make assumptions, im talking from a game experience.
lets say the ppu came with a tank with a flamer for the sake of arguement. and hes sd'd the ppu manages a rez while the tank is keeping you 2 occupied but its the PPU that isnt ballanced? or what if the ppu came with an apu and a tank and they fend you off while the ppu rezzes. i just dont see the point where you can call one thing valid and the cheep. i think having 2 ppu's to come rez is just as good a tactic as some people think newb buffing is. just because you and your friend couldnt make someone gr you think that the gameplay should be changed to fit what YOU think is best. thats what i dont like about this idea. your arguments always appear to have some level of common sense but they never do when you get into it. oh well you cant win agenst someone who lives on the fourms i guess.
Your example is a PvP one. What if you are just hunting mobs and waiting for a rez?
I would prefer to see some sort of tool to force a body to begin to decay. The tool requirements should be exactly along the lines of the stealth tools so that a PE could use the first 2 levels and a spy the best 2. In addition, the application of the tool should be highly visible and take 20 seconds or so to give the enemy time to kill the tool user.
This would simply add another element to OP fights. Once the body was "tooled" the decay process would begin and the PPUs would know they had a limited amount of time to get that dead person rezzed. The better tools decay the body faster.
I think something should be done about the whole laying there dead forever thing. If it could be done the only place that requires a timer for dead people is a Warzone, either that or introduce what they has been on Jupiter for ages belt drops in warzones.
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