View Full Version : Every other class *but*
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 16:22
Here's the deal. Every class in the game has run-shoot asside from the PPU. Every class in the game can use their "weapons" at capped run speed exept the PPU. Every class in the game is able to keep their "amo" in their inventory, and it auto reloads exept the monk. Every class in the game is able to do missions *quickly* exept the PPU.....why is it that the PPU is assed out of the luxeries that ALL other classes have? Why should it be impossible for me to raise faction sympathy as a PPU? Why should I have to keep my amo in my belt? Finally why is it that every_other_class in the game is able to run-shoot their weapons asside from PPUs? Please fix these issues KK, even though the class is (VERY SLIGHTLY) unbalanced there is no reason to make it a pain in the ass.
Discuss.
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 16:24
I agree partially. I think stuff like over-expensive spell maintenance, doing missions/epics, and quickkeys for PPUs should be fixed or enhanced.
I don't think they should get full run/casting on all their spells though.
Every other class dies when shot about a hundred times. Each class serves a purpose, has positive and negative sides. It works - leave it be.
[Edit - a quick key for boosters might be a good idea, but not full speed runcasting.]
Yeah you gotta hate that.. and the fact that the ppu has to go and do agressive things to do missions. And before some dumb smartass comes here and bitches about do ress and cst missions. There should be other ways aswell to do missions for ppus end of fucking story...
Give us protect missions or whatever. team up with someone within rank protect the guy for 5 kills of whatever mob and mission complete or whatever..
and for the runcast thingy it can stay the way it is cause I dont want more whining.. im sick of it now.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 16:27
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I don't think they should get full run/casting on all their spells though.
Why not shadow? All other classes have it.......an APU/PPU combo or an APU/PE combo for that matter can take down ANY good PPU because of noob buffing. As much as I agree with the idea of noob buffing I think it's broken right now for the simple fact that you have a limited movement while casting your spells.......There is no reason that we shouldn't have it.
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 16:29
Originally posted by ghandisfury
There is no reason that we shouldn't have it.
Yes their is, it's called balance. Just beause every other class has something doesn't mean PPU has to have it. Like Kimiko said, every other class can't take a bajillion hits nor can they turn you to a snail.
Also, ppus are already hard to kill. I mean damn dude, how hard do you want them to be to kill? I feel like some ppus on this forum won't be satisfied until they get Holy Invincibility. o_O
Original monk
19-12-03, 16:31
Because how fucked up the ppu might be, being bitched on, nerfed, boring and all the other things you have said ........ its still about helping people ....... and not about being the GODlike, uber, unkillable char that everybody is whining about.
full stop, other sentence :-O
SeXy Happy
19-12-03, 16:32
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Here's the deal... Every class in the game is able to keep their "amo" in their inventory, and it auto reloads exept the monk...
Droners dont get that luxury either. If we go far away from our body we either a) drop our weapon on the ground or b) lead the enemy to our fragile body.
Either way we have to open inventory back up and place our WEAPON back in, just to be able to use it. At least you get to keep yours in your belt and CAN use it, you just need "ammo" which is self replenishing anyhow.
Don't get me wrong I feel the pain of the monks too :rolleyes: I have played one myself. But there are other classes that are way more messed up ::cough:: droners ::cough:: in the eyes of being unbalanced. And you cant get any more bugged than us.
Eledhbrant
19-12-03, 16:33
So because I want to be a healer/helper class I have to spend stupid amounts of money on around 30 different spells from cash I only get from teaming. I have to use one of my few belt slots for my ammo, I have sacrificed all attack ability on my character and I get punished for it?
o_O
edit: nvm this was mainly to one of the first repliers about the boosters but she edited her post, oh well.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 16:40
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Yes their is, it's called balance. Just beause every other class has something doesn't mean PPU has to have it. Like Kimiko said, every other class can't take a bajillion hits nor can they turn you to a snail./B]
Yes, but every other class can shoot and kill you. Like I said, just because we are a bit unbalanced doesn't mean we should be assed out of the luxeries of every other class.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
[B]Also, ppus are already hard to kill. I mean damn dude, how hard do you want them to be to kill? I feel like some ppus on this forum won't be satisfied until they get Holy Invincibility. o_O
I'm not asking for godmode, I'm saying that a GOOD PPU can be gunned down by a team of two (2) EASILY for the simple fact that they have to stand still to use thier weapons.
Originally posted by SeXy Happy
Droners dont get that luxury either. If we go far away from our body we either a) drop our weapon on the ground or b) lead the enemy to our fragile body.
I have played a droner for a month now, and I don't know what everybody is bitching about. The only bad part that I've seen about a drone is the fact that it their drones are too fragile and they don't have a local mode. As far as the amo goes, a PN can take two WBs down without reloading......I'll gladly accept 1000 mana pool for having to keep boosters.
SeXy Happy
19-12-03, 16:45
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I have played a droner for a month now, and I don't know what everybody is bitching about. The only bad part that I've seen about a drone is the fact that it their drones are too fragile and they don't have a local mode. As far as the amo goes, a PN can take two WBs down without reloading......I'll gladly accept 1000 mana pool for having to keep boosters.
Yes they are too fragile...especially at the expense of having to buy another weapon when it is dead. I think the armor and HP of the drones need to be boosted. But as far as the ammo thing goes. You are right, there is quite a bit of ammo in them there drones.
However, my point was that you were saying that your ammo as a monk (psi booster) has to be manually dragged over to your belt and that can be costly in OP battles. But droners suffer from the same fate, except its our entire weapon that we have to drag over and then launch and THEN we are able to kill.
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 16:46
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Yes, but every other class can shoot and kill you. Like I said, just because we are a bit unbalanced doesn't mean we should be assed out of the luxeries of every other class.
Every other class cannot shoot and kill the ppu, unless it's a joint effort or the ppu sucks. Also, the power of a spell needs to be balance with rof and mana costs. You want to cast a spell that gives you superhuman defense for 2 minutes, while on the run? O_o
Their are many luxeries the ppu gets that the other classes don't. Their are some he should get that the other classes do, but "full" run/casting is definitely not one of them. Oh and a GOOD ppu won't die to 2 people unless he's caught completely offguard.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
EASILY for the simple fact that they have to stand still to use thier weapons.
Gunned down? You realize the rof cap on heal is like 52 right? You can almost run/cast that. I think it's 42 for shelter. Why are you acting like they stand still for 5 days? C'mon Ghandi, I can't stand when people exaggerate. "gunned down EASILY" because of no run/casting has to be one of the biggest exaggerations I've heard yet.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I'll gladly accept 1000 mana pool for having to keep boosters.
What do you mean having to keep boosters?
I'll offer you a deal then.
you nerf the shock spells again, ill give you the ability to throw in psi boosters on the fly and cast running at 100 km/h and cast ressurect spells in 2 seconds
deal?
Honestly, some of you just want everything thrown at you.....
You just want things easy.
I tell ya what, give pistols the range of rifles and ill give you the ability to throw in psi boosters on the fly and cast running at 100 km/h and cast ressurect spells in 2 seconds
deal?
Give heavy weapons the accuracy of rifles and ill give you the ability to throw in psi boosters on the fly and cast running at 100 km/h and cast ressurect spells in 2 seconds
I think it stinks that PPUs have to kill mobs and players in missions and epics... that should be changed... but otherwise they are fine.
Dont tell me I can run full speed and shoot my fusion cannon or rgc with any effectiveness. I have to stop moving, kneel, and wait for reticle closure before I can fire it. No monk has to kneel and wait on a reticle. Not to mention the idea of "full speed" doesnt even coexist with "heavy weapons."
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 16:56
Originally posted by SeXy Happy
However, my point was that you were saying that your ammo as a monk (psi booster) has to be manually dragged over to your belt and that can be costly in OP battles.
It is costly everywhere, and it's not the fact that it's costly, it's the fact that all_other_classes have a luxerie of reloading manually or automatically, and the keep their amo in their inventory (not taking up much needed space in their QB).
Originally posted by SeXy Happy
But droners suffer from the same fate, except its our entire weapon that we have to drag over and then launch and THEN we are able to kill.
I keep 5 drones in my QB......what else are you putting in your QB? The other balance issue is that you're all the way across zone, and have no fear of death (unless they find you), or in an OP war you can hide behind turrets and virtually never die. That's balance mate.
BALANCE is the following
Droners have an unlimited range, and no fear of death if they play smart, therefore their drones do limited damage and are hard to control.
APUs have the best offence, but their bodies are very fragile against peircing.
Spies have great range on rifles, and descent damage...very frail bodies against all types of attack....so they get stealth.
PPUs have the best defence but have zero offence.
PAIN IN THE ASS ITEMS.
Monks must keep their amo in their quickbelt.
Droners get SI from a drone dyingo_O
PPUs can't runcast thier weapons.
PPUs cant do missions.
Drugs don't stack in your QB.
The list goes on and on.....there is a fine line between balance and just being a pain in the ass.
SeXy Happy
19-12-03, 17:02
Sounds to be like it is balanced then....with the exception of PPU's not being able to do missions....that just sucks...and actually you can do missions...they are just those crappy errand missions.
But other than that there are little tweaks here and there that balances things out just like you said. So one of the draw backs of being all powerful hard to die character is no offense and you cant runcast.
As I said before the belt thing is still about the same, I know I can keep more drones in my belt, I keep as many as I can, but still eventually I will have to put my drones in to fill it back up...same as a monk would have to do with psi boosters. But unlike a monk I HAVE to do this in order to kill, you would simply have to wait for your mana pool to regen. I can't just stand around and wait for my drone to come back to my belt.
Jesterthegreat
19-12-03, 17:02
boost PPU's! they suck as it is! they are not good enough! i went AFK with no buffs at CRP surounded by enemies and i was peekayed!
O_o
I dont seem to have a problem with doing aggie missions on my ppu.....
I barely use psi boosters as it is. and usually when i do, it takes about 2 seconds to put a new one in my quick belt.
true, it would be very handy to have a tool that does this.
or allow them to be stackable... in which case I want my medkits stackable.
so what if ppus cant run cast.
unless your dumb, most of your spells should take 1 to 4 second to cast. which is NOT bad considering that the PPU has the best defence in the game JUST from shelter and deflector, they dont nessesarily even need armor. but it helps alot.
you want things to be too easy.
i do agree on being able to use psi boosters however.
but hey, like i said, you want things easier for ppus? then we get to nerf the shock spells AGAIN.
I have a ppu btw.
they can kill, just takes time.
damage boost, cast soul cluster, holy parashock them to death.
Jesterthegreat
19-12-03, 17:06
Originally posted by Zanathos
I dont seem to have a problem with doing aggie missions on my ppu.....
I barely use psi boosters as it is. and usually when i do, it takes about 2 seconds to put a new one in my quick belt.
true, it would be very handy to have a tool that does this.
or allow them to be stackable... in which case I want my medkits stackable.
so what if ppus cant run cast.
unless your dumb, most of your spells should take 1 to 4 second to cast. which is NOT bad considering that the PPU has the best defence in the game JUST from shelter and deflector, they dont nessesarily even need armor. but it helps alot.
you want things to be too easy.
i do agree on being able to use psi boosters however.
but hey, like i said, you want things easier for ppus? then we get to nerf the shock spells AGAIN.
I have a ppu btw.
they can kill, just takes time.
damage boost, cast soul cluster, holy parashock them to death.
yup im a << << << << PPU (just off PA) and i have no problems with aggie missions... i have problems with the shit XP / money, but i can do them.
damage boost, damage boost, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt, 5 slot holy para bolt loot
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Here's the deal. Every class in the game has run-shoot asside from the PPU. Every class in the game can use their "weapons" at capped run speed exept the PPU. Every class in the game is able to keep their "amo" in their inventory, and it auto reloads exept the monk. Every class in the game is able to do missions *quickly* exept the PPU.....why is it that the PPU is assed out of the luxeries that ALL other classes have? Why should it be impossible for me to raise faction sympathy as a PPU? Why should I have to keep my amo in my belt? Finally why is it that every_other_class in the game is able to run-shoot their weapons asside from PPUs? Please fix these issues KK, even though the class is (VERY SLIGHTLY) unbalanced there is no reason to make it a pain in the ass.
Discuss.
personally, ppus shouldnt be able to run fast with there weapons out. All im sayin is that they shouldnt be able to run full speed, maybe a little less.
Originally posted by wolfwood
personally, ppus shouldnt be able to run fast with there weapons out. All im sayin is that they shouldnt be able to run full speed, maybe a little less.
ah....
there weapons dont weight 50 tons like a tanks weapon does.
Jesterthegreat
19-12-03, 17:11
Originally posted by Zanathos
ah....
there weapons dont weight 50 tons like a tanks weapon does.
last time i checked a judge was heavier than a cursed soul...
it may have been changed now though
well thats just stupid then :p
i cant really complain i guess.....
my PE has 147.1 units of transport for em to use :p
has 70 units free when i buy the ammo i need for hunting :p
Jesterthegreat
19-12-03, 17:17
Originally posted by Zanathos
well thats just stupid then :p
i cant really complain i guess.....
my PE has 147.1 units of transport for em to use :p
has 70 units free when i buy the ammo i need for hunting :p
personally i never hunt without my 200 clips of lib ammo
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 17:17
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Every other class cannot shoot and kill the ppu, unless it's a joint effort or the ppu sucks. Also, the power of a spell needs to be balance with rof and mana costs. You want to cast a spell that gives you superhuman defense for 2 minutes, while on the run? O_o
Correct, and those are our weapons....and noob buffing has come to an all time low.....this is the only way I see to fix it.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Their are many luxeries the ppu gets that the other classes don't. Their are some he should get that the other classes do, but "full" run/casting is definitely not one of them. Oh and a GOOD ppu won't die to 2 people unless he's caught completely offguard.
I'll bet you anything you want that I can kill any_PPU in the game with two people.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Gunned down? You realize the rof cap on heal is like 52 right? You can almost run/cast that. I think it's 42 for shelter. Why are you acting like they stand still for 5 days? C'mon Ghandi, I can't stand when people exaggerate. "gunned down EASILY" because of no run/casting has to be one of the biggest exaggerations I've heard yet.
Please give me a little credit here bro, I'm not exaggerating, and *I think* I'm a pretty descent PPU.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What do you mean having to keep boosters?
I mean keeping them in my belt, sorry.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
boost PPU's! they suck as it is! they are not good enough! i went AFK with no buffs at CRP surounded by enemies and i was peekayed![/B]
Please keep this civil......I know you hate PPU, but that doesn't mean thier life has to be shit. kthxby
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Here's the deal. Every class in the game has run-shoot asside from the PPU. Every class in the game can use their "weapons" at capped run speed exept the PPU. Every class in the game is able to keep their "amo" in their inventory, and it auto reloads exept the monk. Every class in the game is able to do missions *quickly* exept the PPU.....why is it that the PPU is assed out of the luxeries that ALL other classes have? Why should it be impossible for me to raise faction sympathy as a PPU? Why should I have to keep my amo in my belt? Finally why is it that every_other_class in the game is able to run-shoot their weapons asside from PPUs? Please fix these issues KK, even though the class is (VERY SLIGHTLY) unbalanced there is no reason to make it a pain in the ass.
Discuss.
about the sl i agree but as to the run casting no other char in the game is so hard to kill to be near imortal!!
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 17:20
Originally posted by Shakari
about the sl i agree but as to the run casting no other char in the game is so hard to kill to be near imortal!!
Every other character can kill. Every other character can shoot his weapons at full speed (and with acuraccy), why is the PPU left out?
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 17:26
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I'll bet you anything you want that I can kill any_PPU in the game with two people.
Pete the psi
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Please give me a little credit here bro, I'm not exaggerating,
Well I guess we disagree.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 17:27
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Pete the psi
Name your price, and set it up, I'll be there with bells on.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Well I guess we disagree.
Doesn't mean I stopped loving you:p
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Every other character can kill.PPU monks can kill, and have killed. Just not with near the efficiency of other classes.
And the actual counter to what you say is that monks can avoid being killed with much more efficiency than any other class... by a long shot.
Every other character can shoot his weapons at full speed (and with acuraccy), why is the PPU left out? Why haven't you addressed what I said yet about HC? You can HARDLY run at full speed with the weapon out- enormous hit to run speed and it drains stamina fast. You can shoot a heavy weap while running (remember, running is not at full speed) but the accuracy quite poor.
I am NOT saying that heavy weaps need to be changed. Just saying your blanket statement is incorrect.
If I had to choose between the two methods of targetting:
1. Tank- run around at a slow pace, stop, take a knee, wait for reticle to shrink, then shoot.
2. Monk- Run around at near full speed. Stop, squeeze off a spell in under a second without waiting on a reticle, then start running again.
I would take #2 if I had to pick one or the other.
Oh, did we mention that once the spell effect is started, you can go into your RPOS and do other things as well?
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 17:45
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Name your price, and set it up, I'll be there with bells on.
I won't bet on it because i don't trust Pete. He'll probably throw the fight just so I could lose money. :p
But I do believe that he won't die to 2 people. Uh oh, ego boost for him. Meh.
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 17:50
I agree that many parts of playing a ppu are a pain. Although their most used spells seem to be easy to run cast to me... Don't know what your talking about there.
Dribble Joy
19-12-03, 17:56
Didums.
The other classes need QB slots too.
We have to carry, anti shock, anti poison, anti dmg (optional), these don't even stack, and they cause drug flash.
We need stam boosters, Tanks need loads of them, Some PEs carry Psi boosters too.
Other than that, missions and cost of ppu equipent is a tad high.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 17:57
Originally posted by Strych9
PPU monks can kill, and have killed. Just not with near the efficiency of other classes.
And the actual counter to what you say is that monks can avoid being killed with much more efficiency than any other class... by a long shot.Why haven't you addressed what I said yet about HC? You can HARDLY run at full speed with the weapon out- enormous hit to run speed and it drains stamina fast. You can shoot a heavy weap while running (remember, running is not at full speed) but the accuracy quite poor.
They decreased stamina drain and runspeed loss ALOT with the last patch. Reticle is the same (unless you're shooting an AOE in which case I would counter that with me casting rezz, or cat sanctum), so tanks are pretty well off if you ask me.
Originally posted by Strych9
I am NOT saying that heavy weaps need to be changed. Just saying your blanket statement is incorrect.
No it's not, tanks are fine, they can runshoot all their weapons asside from AOE (which is better shot from a kneeled possisiont anyway).
Originally posted by Strych9
2. Monk- Run around at near full speed. Stop, squeeze off a spell in under a second without waiting on a reticle, then start running again.
If you're talking about APUs, well they have runcast now don't they.....PPUs on the other hand do not.
Originally posted by Strych9
Oh, did we mention that once the spell effect is started, you can go into your RPOS and do other things as well?
Did I meantion that's because we_can't_move when casting big spells, and we can move little when casting out primary weapons?
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Don't know what your talking about there.
Then neither do you;)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I won't bet on it because i don't trust Pete. He'll probably throw the fight just so I could lose money. :p
But I do believe that he won't die to 2 people. Uh oh, ego boost for him. Meh.
Thats ok, i'll bet for myself. I'll put down 10mil that you can't kill me with only two people.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
They decreased stamina drain and runspeed loss ALOT with the last patch. Reticle is the same (unless you're shooting an AOE in which case I would counter that with me casting rezz, or cat sanctum), so tanks are pretty well off if you ask me.I am not saying tanks have it rough. I was pointing out you are incorrect when you say tanks can run full speed and accurately shoot their weapons. Tank dont run at full speed, must stop to shoot AOE weapons, and must wait a while for the reticle to close while running (and having to keep the reticle on the target while running).
That PALES in comparison to running at full speed, stopping, having instant target acquisition, and pressing the button.
No it's not, tanks are fine, they can runshoot all their weapons asside from AOE (which is better shot from a kneeled possisiont anyway).I never said tanks werent fine.
I would still take the instant target acquisition of a monk over the slow reticle closure of a tank.
If you're talking about APUs, well they have runcast now don't they.....PPUs on the other hand do not. Seems some PPUs say they have it.
Regardless, I was saying a PPU can run full speed. Stop. Put reticle on target. Press button. Wait for spell to cast. Run full speed again.
Tanks cannot do that or anything even similar. And thats the worst case scenario for a PPU.
Did I meantion that's because we_can't_move when casting big spells, and we can move little when casting out primary weapons?Actually you didnt mention it at all in your initial moan on the subject. :)
Aiming and firing spells on a monk is incredibly easy. Do you only play a monk? Do you currently have an active tank and monk to compare? I do, and in my opinion, playing the monk almost feels like cheating in terms of aiming and target acquisition. Sure, monks have other problems (quickbelt management, etc.) but we arent discussing those.
Quit trying to make things easier for your PPU and just adapt.
I HAVE a ppu so I know how it works.
My friends have ppus, they dont bitch about this. What I have heared them bitch about is that they dont like waiting a minute for a ressurect spell to kick in. But hey, ADAPT or dont get killed right?
Change is inevitable, species on Earth over the centuries have done it. Did the human race suddenly stop adapting because there just too lazy?
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 18:56
Originally posted by petek480
Thats ok, i'll bet for myself. I'll put down 10mil that you can't kill me with only two people.
Done, I pick the people and the place, meet you ingame tonight.
Shadow Dancer
19-12-03, 19:00
Ghandi I want to watch this, so please DM or EMAIL me.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:02
Originally posted by Strych9
I am not saying tanks have it rough. I was pointing out you are incorrect when you say tanks can run full speed and accurately shoot their weapons. Tank dont run at full speed, must stop to shoot AOE weapons, and must wait a while for the reticle to close while running (and having to keep the reticle on the target while running).
As I said, AOE is the only weapon you have that you can't runcast with accuracy, CS/Devourer/Rev are all run-shootable.
Originally posted by Strych9
I would still take the instant target acquisition of a monk over the slow reticle closure of a tank.Seems some PPUs say they have it.
Wouldn't we all.....and whatever these other PPUs say they have are incorrect.
Originally posted by Strych9
Aiming and firing spells on a monk is incredibly easy. Do you only play a monk? Do you currently have an active tank and monk to compare? I do, and in my opinion, playing the monk almost feels like cheating in terms of aiming and target acquisition. Sure, monks have other problems (quickbelt management, etc.) but we arent discussing those.
Yes, I aslo have a PE, spie, APU, and droner to compair it to. Quickbelt management is the least of the PPU's worries.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:03
For the record, I'm not asking for increase on ROF of the PPUs primary weapons, I'm asking for a larger radius of cast.
Promethius
19-12-03, 19:04
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Here's the deal. Every class in the game has run-shoot asside from the PPU. Every class in the game can use their "weapons" at capped run speed exept the PPU. Every class in the game is able to keep their "amo" in their inventory, and it auto reloads exept the monk. Every class in the game is able to do missions *quickly* exept the PPU.....why is it that the PPU is assed out of the luxeries that ALL other classes have? Why should it be impossible for me to raise faction sympathy as a PPU? Why should I have to keep my amo in my belt? Finally why is it that every_other_class in the game is able to run-shoot their weapons asside from PPUs? Please fix these issues KK, even though the class is (VERY SLIGHTLY) unbalanced there is no reason to make it a pain in the ass.
Discuss.
Where does it say every class has to be equal to another class?
Also PPu's run casting while taking HUGE ammounts of dmg IMO would WAY overpower the PPU.
Honestly as a capped PPU i don't find it that hard to stop for a split sec to start a spell and take off. Also u CAN be running while casting (just not forward ^^).
PPU's are fine with wat they got.
-Prom
he just wants his life in Neocron to be easier....
wheres the fun in that :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ghandisfury
As I said, AOE is the only weapon you have that you can't runcast with accuracy, CS/Devourer/Rev are all run-shootable.As long as you dont count the slow reticle closing time that you have when standing and running with heavy weaps, and the poor accuracy, yeah, I guess you can say you can say they are run-shootable. :rolleyes:
And during that aiming time, any monk could have squeezed off several spell volleys.
My point still stands... the run-shootable action of a tank is not very accuracte and the run speed is not anywhere near full speed.
You keep ignoring/failing to address the fact that the monks still has a far superior aiming system than the tank (as I have brought it up over and over) so I will assume by your silence that you concede that point.
Wouldn't we all.....and whatever these other PPUs say they have are incorrect.I guess they could be liars. :confused:
Yes, I aslo have a PE, spie, APU, and droner to compair it to. Quickbelt management is the least of the PPU's worries. Well then you should know that the monks.. both APU and PPU... having aiming and target acquisition much easier than everyone else. ;)
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:08
Originally posted by Zanathos
he just wants his life in Neocron to be easier....
wheres the fun in that :rolleyes:
As I said, there is a difference from balance and pain in the ass. I would also like to thank you for your well thought out post..... scholars are hard to come by these days.:rolleyes:
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:18
Originally posted by Strych9
As long as you dont count the slow reticle closing time that you have when standing and running with heavy weaps, and the poor accuracy, yeah, I guess you can say you can say they are run-shootable. :rolleyes:
And during that aiming time, any monk could have squeezed off several spell volleys.
My point still stands... the run-shootable action of a tank is not very accuracte and the run speed is not anywhere near full speed.
You keep ignoring/failing to address the fact that the monks still has a far superior aiming system than the tank (as I have brought it up over and over) so I will assume by your silence that you concede that point.
I have not ignored your point, the reason I have not addressed is because that_is_not the point of this thread. Easy target aquasition and runcasting PPU spells on myslef are two totally seperate matters. If you will aslo take note you are primarilly talking about APUs, I'm talking about PPUs. But because you have forced me to acknowledge the APU target aquisition here it is: APUs at ranged combat don't do as much damage as close combat, the slow aiming retinal on your tank is much MUCH faster in close combat (almost instant). The tanks AOE weapons take slightly longer (if any) than the pistol or rifle, which is yet another reason why I didn't bother to reply. There is little difference from all three classes (pistol/rifle/HC), and all ranged combat sucks when in motion.
Originally posted by Strych9
I guess they could be liars. :confused:
I would ask PPUs that actually play PPUs to attest to the fact there is no_such_thing as run cast when it comes to PPU spells.
Originally posted by Strych9
Well then you should know that the monks.. both APU and PPU... having aiming and target acquisition much easier than everyone else. ;)
Agreed, but that's not the point now is it?
oh yes, its such a pain in the ass trying to be a ppu... oh i agree with you completly, we need to make our lives easier so we never die.
dont carry so many spells perhaps? I carry a shock spell, heal spell, deflector, shelter, damage boost and ressurect spell.....
that leaves me with... WOW! 3 spaces for psi boosters!
You DO realize that you can cast a spell, quickly access the inventory and place new boosters in the quickbelt right?
I have agreed that it would be nice if these would stack or if there was an item like a gun that injected us with psi boosters and reloaded like a normal gun after. Maybe not in this tread but in another one.
quite trying to make your ppu more god like. you just be slapped with a nerf stick again 6 months later..........
every class and sub class has its disadvantages, every class and sub class has its strengths. adapt to them. KK will change them until they feel its balanced, adapt each time they change it.
you CAN also cast a spell, wait a second, the start running right? I do it all the time on my PE.
or you can stop running, walk, cast it, then start running again.
how much psi use do you have anyways :/
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:24
Originally posted by Zanathos
oh yes, its such a pain in the ass trying to be a ppu... oh i agree with you completly, we need to make our lives easier so we never die.
It's not so I never die, it's to make it less of a pain in the ass.
Originally posted by Zanathos
dont carry so many spells perhaps?B]
Ahhh yess a PPU at it's finest ladies and gentlemen.
Originally posted by Zanathos
[B]You DO realize that you can cast a spell, quickly access the inventory and place new boosters in the quickbelt right?
You do realize that it doesn't make it any less of a pain in the ass don't you? You do realize that all other classes don't carry thier amo in their belt don't you?
Originally posted by Zanathos
[B]quite trying to make your ppu more god like. you just be slapped with a nerf stick again 6 months later..........
We'll get slapped with a nerf stick either way......I don't see how this will make us "godlike" by letting us do what all other classes are able to do (runcast/not carry amo in our belt).
Originally posted by Zanathos
[B]every class and sub class has its disadvantages, every class and sub class has its strengths. adapt to them.
That's called balance. Having your amo in your QB, and not being able to runcast you weapons just because you are a certain class is not "stregths and weakness".
id just like to point out...
since when did psi boosters become ammo for psi spells? last i checked it was mana.....
im PRETTY sure that stamina boosters arent needed to have us run around and shoot.....
if we were to do this then
medkits need to be stackable
antidotes
anti shockers
stealth breakers
etc...
would it make you feel better if we had to have ammo in our quick belts? ( even though psi boosters are NOT ammo for psi spells)
if you want to run cast... use heal spell then rather than holy heal. problem solved.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 19:38
Originally posted by Zanathos
id just like to point out...
since when did psi boosters become ammo for psi spells? last i checked it was mana.....
im PRETTY sure that stamina boosters arent needed to have us run around and shoot.....
Since retail I believe......what else repleneshis mana? Or should we just have to wait 2 minutes till our mana regins naturally?
Originally posted by Zanathos
if we were to do this then
medkits need to be stackable
antidotes
anti shockers
stealth breakers
etc...
Medkits are stackable, and all other drugs should be.
Originally posted by Zanathos
would it make you feel better if we had to have ammo in our quick belts? ( adressed above)
Yes.
*sigh*
Why do I bother try to explain something to someone that is incapable of understanding.....
I have a PPU, I know how it is, I have a Pistol PE, I know it it is, I have a Heavy Tank, I know how it is. I had a Rifle Spy, I know how it is.
I've played most of the sub classes in this game...
Using your analogy, does that mean stamina booster is ammo for melee users?
Only thing that bugs me as a PPU is that people wont stop moving when im trying to buff them and heal them :eek:
Every class in the game has a reticule, except the monk class.
If PPUs get full runcasting, then tanks should be able to run full speed with their weapons drawn, and PPU shields and heals should be toned down. Also Antibuff should be made runcastable, AoE tank weapons should aim perfectly even when at full run, and droners should be able to run around at full speed while droning.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 20:13
Exactly what I expected from you scikar......to the T.
steweygrrr
19-12-03, 20:38
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Every other character can kill. Every other character can shoot his weapons at full speed (and with acuraccy), why is the PPU left out?
Because of the all important first P in PPU.... Passive PSI User...Passive as in not meant to attack. THATS why PPUs cannot and should not kill. They are a PURELY defensive class and the total opposite of APUs which are purely offensive. Thats why APU's have the defence of a paper cup while being able to level cities with their eyes closed and PPU's cant kill fleas but trying to kill them is like hitting a stone wall with a feather.
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 20:41
Originally posted by steweygrrr
Because of the all important first P in PPU.... Passive PSI User...Passive as in not meant to attack. THATS why PPUs cannot and should not kill. They are a PURELY defensive class and the total opposite of APUs which are purely offensive. Thats why APU's have the defence of a paper cup while being able to level cities with their eyes closed and PPU's cant kill fleas but trying to kill them is like hitting a stone wall with a feather.
Um, I hate to break it to you but:confused: ..... This thread isn't about killing or not killing, it's about the fact the PPU is the_only_class that cannot run-cast his/her weapons. Monks are the only class that have to keep their amo in their QB, and PPUs have no way of doing missions.
steweygrrr
19-12-03, 20:46
Errr monk ammo is Mana, not boosters. Secondly I was just clearing up something that REALLY bugs me when PPUs moan, I have one myself and dont bitch about not being able to runcast. Thirdly PPU spells can be runcast. All you need is over 500% damage and aiming.....take a screeny of your holy heal and let me see its stats.
Well for the monk ammo (psi boosters) maybe just the "reload'' button would be same as click on a psi booster...would be equaly then, and way better (especially for the ppu)
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 20:51
Originally posted by steweygrrr
Errr monk ammo is Mana, not boosters.
How do you suppose they replenish their mana or amo if you will? Boosters.
Originally posted by steweygrrr
Secondly I was just clearing up something that REALLY bugs me when PPUs moan, I have one myself and dont bitch about not being able to runcast. Thirdly PPU spells can be runcast. All you need is over 500% damage and aiming.....take a screeny of your holy heal and let me see its stats.
First you say you can't runncast, then you say you can. And either your run speed is super slow, you don't have a PPU. My holy shelter/deflector/heal are 120/120/120/90.
Runcast = while ur running u cast a spell, and thats not possible with heal, shields,...even if u have 576%
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 20:54
Originally posted by Sefran
Runcast = while ur running u cast a spell, and thats not possible with heal, shields,...even if u have 576%
THANK YOU............
It's like the moment you say that one thing or another is crap with monks people say "OMG OMG THEY'RE TOO PWOARFOOL NOW....THEY NED TO BE REMOVD FROM TEH GAME" without even thinking about the balance or lack of balance.
Monks have been the center of attention for so long that I fear that the only things that will happen for them in the future will be nerfs.
steweygrrr
19-12-03, 21:14
Originally posted by ghandisfury
How do you suppose they replenish their mana or amo if you will? Boosters.
It auto recharges
First you say you can't runncast, then you say you can. And either your run speed is super slow, you don't have a PPU. My holy shelter/deflector/heal are 120/120/120/90. [/B]
When did I say I cant runcast?
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 21:21
Originally posted by steweygrrr
It auto recharges.
Tell that to a *real* PPU or APU, or hybrid for that matter....ask them to let their mana "auto recharge":rolleyes:
Originally posted by steweygrrr
When did I say I cant runcast?
Originally posted by steweygrrr
Secondly I was just clearing up something that REALLY bugs me when PPUs moan, I have one myself and dont bitch about not being able to runcast. Thirdly PPU spells can be runcast.
Just for clerification, you_can't_runcast ANY PPU spells.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Exactly what I expected from you scikar......to the T.
Then I assume you have an argument against it? All of the justification you have given can be applied to tanks' runspeed with heavy weapons.
And PPUs can still runcast their PPU spells if you reduce your ath/agl until you have the runspeed of a tank with a weapon drawn.
Originally posted by Kimiko
[Edit - a quick key for boosters might be a good idea, but not full speed runcasting.]
I would LOVE a quick-key for boosters on my PPU.
Originally posted by Kimiko
Every other class dies when shot about a hundred times. Each class serves a purpose, has positive and negative sides. It works - leave it be.
[Edit - a quick key for boosters might be a good idea, but not full speed runcasting.]
agreed.
Personally I just think this entire argument doesn't show why PPUs need to run cast, I think it shows why APUs DON'T need to run cast. ;) Onoz!!!
ghandisfury
19-12-03, 22:58
Originally posted by Scikar
Then I assume you have an argument against it? All of the justification you have given can be applied to tanks' runspeed with heavy weapons.
And PPUs can still runcast their PPU spells if you reduce your ath/agl until you have the runspeed of a tank with a weapon drawn.
Your first post was riddled with twaddle (which is what I expected), this post seems better written.
Here's where your argument flawed: it's the basic character "balance" that this community has been contributing to for over a year now.
MONKS: Supposed to be the masters of defence/offence pending on the side they choose. A PPU is a master of defence, and his spells are his weapons. He has zero offence. Same goes for the APU, his spells are his weapons, and mana his amo. He has little defence.
PEs: Supposed to be jack of all trades, pistols and rifles are used by many. Thier heal/shelter/deflector are just as much of a weapon as their LIB/PE/ROLH. Thier biggest advantage is thier speed. Medium Defence, medium defence.
SPIES: Very little defence, midrange offence, but their purpose is to stay out of the fight, hang back and snype them from a range unheard of by other classes.
TANKS: Second best defence combined with the second best offence. What would thier draw back be? Run speed (which was more than doubled with the last patch).
You ask me to slow myself down to that of a tank weilding a heavy weapon.....Ok, give a heavy weapon to a PPU, and I will. The fact that I can't runncast my weapons does little for the balance of PPUs......Nerfing heal/shelter/deflector does.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Your first post was riddled with twaddle (which is what I expected), this post seems better written.
Here's where your argument flawed: it's the basic character "balance" that this community has been contributing to for over a year now./quote]
Unfortunately this post of yours seems to be full of stereotypes instead of facts. Let's see:
[quote]MONKS: Supposed to be the masters of defence/offence pending on the side they choose. A PPU is a master of defence, and his spells are his weapons. He has zero offence. Same goes for the APU, his spells are his weapons, and mana his amo. He has little defence.
Here's where I disagree. The P in PPU stands for passive, not defensive. I think PPUs are intended to be masters of support and indirect damage, rather than simply masters of defence.
PEs: Supposed to be jack of all trades, pistols and rifles are used by many. Thier heal/shelter/deflector are just as much of a weapon as their LIB/PE/ROLH. Thier biggest advantage is thier speed. Medium Defence, medium defence.
Here's where you go wrong. PEs have higher defence than tanks. PE defence is second only to PPU defence. In return, their offense is the lowest of the combat classes.
SPIES: Very little defence, midrange offence, but their purpose is to stay out of the fight, hang back and snype them from a range unheard of by other classes.
Going wrong again. There is actually very little difference between spies and PEs. A spy has a little less defence, but only a little, and again only a little more offense.
TANKS: Second best defence combined with the second best offence. What would thier draw back be? Run speed (which was more than doubled with the last patch).
Run speed for tanks hasn't been touched. The change is in stamina drain from using heavy weapons. Tanks have weaker defence than PEs. They also do not have stealth tools. When you discount stealth, then tanks have the third best defence, behind PEs and PPUs. When you include stealth, tanks are only ahead of APUs in defence terms.
You ask me to slow myself down to that of a tank weilding a heavy weapon.....Ok, give a heavy weapon to a PPU, and I will. The fact that I can't runncast my weapons does little for the balance of PPUs......Nerfing heal/shelter/deflector does.
I'm not asking you to slow down at all. All I'm saying is, if letting PPUs move faster while using their 'weapons' is not affecting game balance, then how can letting tanks move faster with their weapons affect it? If you give PPUs runcasting then they would be far more able to survive being antibuffed. Currently HAB not only strips the PPUs buffs but the PPUs can actually be hit because he has to walk briefly to recast s/d/h. If you let PPUs run around like jackrabbits while recasting them then they will be far less vulnerable to HAB, and therefore it IS affecting game balance.
Ive seen Hinchs PPU run cast his spells, so go get some skills
kthxbye
Keyol45743241
19-12-03, 23:28
I have played a droner for a month now, and I don't know what everybody is bitching about. [...] As far as the amo goes, a PN can take two WBs down without reloading......:lol: You gotta show me that one. And, by the way, PvP balance is the issue. No one really cares (apart from boring the crap out of them :rolleyes: ) if you have your godmode against mobs. But in the very second that godmode PPU starts being nice to my enemies who are out to kill me, it's over with "zeh fun".
In that very second it becomes obvious that a PPU class needs to be balanced against all the other classes, not only against Mobs.
Besides, even for PvM PPUs are way to strong/important. There are people who refuse to go out levling if there isn't a PPU to support them. Since it's SO much harder/slower without thus the person in question refuses to even TRY. Which... is "zeh sux".
And now go and think about why PPUs, the class that destroyed the game and slowly turned it into monkocron, does not need to be able to even dodge shots while runcasting their spells.... why won't we have a rezspell runcast so you can always run around on the other side of a structure? :rolleyes:
Seriously a run cast heal could help alot atleast i pvm, you can runcast it if you get nice stats on it and do wobbeling, but it's not sure that you will hit the person running faster than you if he gets out of range of the spell. But this isnt nessecary it works pretty nice the way it does now but it would help..
Shelters and buffs and so on can be exactly the way it is.
And why is it that ppl have to demand theese absurd things if ppu's get run cast heals or actually whatever. I want this and that and this and that. that runcast heal might save your sorry lill asses some times.
And as I said ppu's should not have to do agressive things to gain dex exp via missions or to gain soullight or faction symp or even do an epic.
Parashock spells should be removed from pvp atleast to see how things turn out and then make it a pvm only spell, put back the mana consumption just the way it was before and the rof.
and the psi booster dilemma that I hate so much when there's alot of shit going on.. make them stackable then make it so we can stack say 5 or 10 psi boosters in one qb slot that would help alot.. And to make it "fair" let ppl stack 5 or up to 10 antipoison/antishock drugs and stuff in a qb slot..
Edit: Passive in PPU in neocron is defensive that's the way it is.. as the game works atm I cant see a way for a support others not it self type of play. Players with good guns can do massive amounts of dmg and not to talk about mobs it would not work very well with a passive player not beeing able to have a defence. This is probably the scenario the whiners of ppu's wants to have but a op battle or a fight or a lone ppu would die in what 2 sec?.. about the same time it takes to take out a standard non super tweaked con apu.. That way what good will a ppu do.. to only give out buffs before a fight and then I can go take a coffee or something..
Same goes for Pvm.. I dont see a ress happening in chaos caves or infront of any badass mob happening (offcourse you could manage a ress but it would be extreemly difficult and time consuming) cause you'll die in less than 8 seconds. Without its buffs and heals and shelters/deflectors the ppu cant take alot of beating.
DOH another edit.. Nexxy everyone might not be as lucky as the guy wobble casting his heals to get a nice holy heal with 120% handling.. just a thought
Exactly ino, as the system stands, passive doesn't really work. That's why think PPUs should be able to deal indirect damage, as a sort of summoner class. Give PPUs more options than just SCs. That way you don't have to kill stuff with parashock for missions. You're not completely helpless on your own. You don't need other people to level. Hell, being a summoner class would just be so much more FUN!
Sounds like a nice idea scikar , some more summonable followers.
Originally posted by Scikar
Exactly ino, as the system stands, passive doesn't really work. That's why think PPUs should be able to deal indirect damage, as a sort of summoner class. Give PPUs more options than just SCs. That way you don't have to kill stuff with parashock for missions. You're not completely helpless on your own. You don't need other people to level. Hell, being a summoner class would just be so much more FUN!
As much fun as a droner:rolleyes:
Originally posted by petek480
As much fun as a droner:rolleyes:
Sorry, I forgot some people get high on sticking other players to the ground, and generally being your team mates' bitch. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
Sorry, I forgot some people get high on sticking other players to the ground, and generally being your team mates' bitch. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry, I was wrong and you were right. Droning is fun and if you dont' believe me go look at how much fun the 2 droners on each server are having.
Originally posted by petek480
I'm sorry, I was wrong and you were right. Droning is fun and if you dont' believe me go look at how much fun the 2 droners on each server are having.
Since you obviously prefer PPU as it is currently, what is it that you like about it? And maybe I'm weird but I actually do think droning is fun. If it wasn't for the fact that the damage is pathetic I would do it more often.
Naah I'd rather be totally passive the way it is now after experimenting with guns and stuff its just not fun as ppu doing that :).. SC's are so dumb and I dont feel like killing things and ppl when I play ppu. and it is fun not killing things except days when noone wants to play :) your kinda stuck somewher poking ppl.
And if the para is removed from pvp and now that ppu's cant ress as easily in combat there are lots of ways to win vs a ppu team.. But still not doable alone and it shouldnt be either cause the ppu is there and his role is actually to improve his side of the fight vs the other.
Shadow Dancer
20-12-03, 03:13
Summoner PPU would be different than a droner.
Summoner PPU would be different than a PPU, you know maybe balanced. :rolleyes:
But honestly Scikar, I think it's too late to completely change the class to something different.
Well I'm not exactly being serious about it anyway. I's not like it'll ever happen. I'm convinced 95% of PPUs are only PPUs so they can be practically invincible rather than out of a desire to help others.
Yeah thats right it too late too late you hear! stop giving kk ideas :) If it turned summoner I'd try it but why not just play another of the agressive classes instead.
Originally posted by Scikar
Here's where I disagree. The P in PPU stands for passive, not defensive. I think PPUs are intended to be masters of support and indirect damage, rather than simply masters of defence.
[/b]
Here's where you go wrong. PEs have higher defence than tanks. PE defence is second only to PPU defence. In return, their offense is the lowest of the combat classes.
[/b]
Going wrong again. There is actually very little difference between spies and PEs. A spy has a little less defence, but only a little, and again only a little more offense.
[/b]
Run speed for tanks hasn't been touched. The change is in stamina drain from using heavy weapons. Tanks have weaker defence than PEs. They also do not have stealth tools. When you discount stealth, then tanks have the third best defence, behind PEs and PPUs. When you include stealth, tanks are only ahead of APUs in defence terms.
I'm not asking you to slow down at all. All I'm saying is, if letting PPUs move faster while using their 'weapons' is not affecting game balance, then how can letting tanks move faster with their weapons affect it? If you give PPUs runcasting then they would be far more able to survive being antibuffed. Currently HAB not only strips the PPUs buffs but the PPUs can actually be hit because he has to walk briefly to recast s/d/h. If you let PPUs run around like jackrabbits while recasting them then they will be far less vulnerable to HAB, and therefore it IS affecting game balance. [/B]
I don't know if this could have been said any better. I agree completely.
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