View Full Version : Nerf teh PEs!
I don't know why, but on pluto, a group of PEs keep on beating a group of Monks... so... nerf teh PEs!
Their defense is like... really good. I mean, they cap natural resists vs. xray... or at least I do. *shifty glance* Force too. And they can get tons of energy and fire using inq armor and med energy belt. Stealth also gets annoying, as just when you're about to kill that pesky PE, she dissapears. >.<
Uhm... Liberator and Pain Easer really tear into monks, I guess... especially hybrids, and we mostly faught hybrids. Give PEs something different to use than SMGs and Assault Rifles... like maybe a shotgun or nailgun? *hint hint*
I'd suggest... taking away stealth and giving PEs something else to have fun with. Maybe a feather that annoys monks so their spells interupt? Maybe a half-stealth device that blurrs a PE's form, so its harder to get a lock? Maybe a bucket of rust to make everyone in power armor look ugly like PEs do?
PE's are fine as they are in my opinion, but yeah I think stealth should be a spy priviledge only. PE's don't need to run from anything, they are quite self sufficient. Too many PEs really abuse stealth.
Shadow Dancer
17-12-03, 10:14
^^ I agree with gr0t. IMO pes should have never gotten stealth. What a strange balance decision IMO.
I think it would be cool if the PE could choose his stat caps, within a certain frame. Like one stat HAS to be 80, one HAS to be 35, etc...
You could have an APU pe, or a HC pe, etc..............
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
^^ I agree with gr0t. IMO pes should have never gotten stealth. What a strange balance decision IMO.
I think it would be cool if the PE could choose his stat caps, within a certain frame. Like one stat HAS to be 80, one HAS to be 35, etc...
You could have an APU pe, or a HC pe, etc..............
I think KK should simply put a class requirement on stealth devices. Then we can all watch as the noob PE's with no skills come and cry on the forum.
Oh yeah and we can point and laugh at that time too.
ya! i like that idea SD... i'd make a 80 psi, 65 con, 60 int, 35 dex, 60 str PE of DEATH. Lots of PSI imps to use like... holy light. Lots of Con for not dying... lots of Int for cast speed... lots of str for resist force and transport. Not much dex, only need it for running fast.
Yeah agreed they have way enough defense to have no stealth, else lower there defense and keep there stealth.
Well coming from a PE with Stealth 1 i don't think it's too overpowering, too use it you need to drop offense, and it's generally useful to have.
My former job at op wars was scout and sniper (damn GFX card sucked too much for up close) and its veryuseful in avoiding that APU + PPU bum-chum team
but Stealth 2 sould certainly be out of reach of PE's i don't debate that one little bit.
Yeah... I used to be RoLH/Stealth 2 PE... was lame. Never died. Had good resists, thought not as good as lowtech PE... and I had a good gun.
rubaduckythug
17-12-03, 11:33
Imo i dont think PE's should get any stealth, its not ment for them it should be limited to spys who need it, and might i add i have certain amount of respect 4 spys becuase they are the weakest class and least talked about but thye never complian about there problems ;) :cool: spys should be the only ones with stealth, Pe's are getting to the point where they specialize in any area they want or 2 somtimes wtf is up with that??? jack of all trades not the damn pie taker hrhr:p man someday will PE's be running around with HL's and holy cath???:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :p :lol: O_o
I play a PE as my 100% main char.
I have 86 TC
I dont own a stealth tool
Nerf the PE's by removing their PA's. pls pls pls do. Far too powerful with the right setup.
a pe can beat a monk...........so you wanna nerf em?
O_o my tank owns monks.........so.............nerf me?
Or..............not.........*hybrids arent monks theyre the debil incarnate*
PA is a problem too... I found that the RoLH setup I was using was really really lame. Exp Reflex 4, SA, SF, Ballistic 3, Moto 3 with PA 3 is a great setup for using RoLH.... everything works out just perfectly so that if you wanted, you could add 9 more T-C to the 86 and use Stealth 2. Kinda painful and RoLH damage falls like crazy, but makes PEs very very hard to kill.
Btw, I only play PEs.
Look at my avatar... PE: jack of all trades! Anti rad suit with a plasma cannon.
i say let them have stealth... they dont bother me and im an APU... usually if a PE turns up i just burn them and watch them run stealth and fall...
so what if a group of PE's beat a group of monks... yu know what. Good!, shows monks arent invicible, and if yur not organised then yur gunna be screwed, its called tactics, let them keep steath and theyre PA otherwise they'll be just a Pistol tank clone
oh and im not a good APU, just a clever one
um... yeah something killed a monk => nerf it
And when pleading for the removal of PA one should also consider that not everyone has a SA!
Also the PE is able to use a bit from ALL classes. A bit STR armor, a bit int based belts and stealth 1, a bit psi.
When/If restricting anything that a PE can use now then a lot of PEs would loose their fun.
Also it should be considered that a well played PE can kill lots of enemies, but thats not necesarily class unbalance, but personal skill (and playing a PE well needs far more personal skill than point'n'click monking)
PEs are hard to play
they have a lot of good stuff
but it's like a high speed game of doging a bullet all the time
keeping your buffs up
taking your armor off and then re-drugging to put armor on
dealing with drug flash
managing your quickslots
it's hard, have to be quick on your feet
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 14:32
Originally posted by greploco
PEs are hard to play
they have a lot of good stuff
but it's like a high speed game of doging a bullet all the time
keeping your buffs up
taking your armor off and then re-drugging to put armor on
dealing with drug flash
managing your quickslots
it's hard, have to be quick on your feet this is the funniest thing i have read all day (slow day i guess)
Pistol PE is far easier to play than Pistol Spy
Ok i agree with the good stuff - nice armour / psi / weapons / con
you think spies / tanks / monks stand still? you think my spy can take more hits than your PE?
PPU's dont have to stay buffed? spies dont?
your choice. use different armour. use more dex imps. my spy has 95 dex atm i think (with imps) i dont bitch i can only wear shitty PA, i know that A) im not capped B) i am not all +DEX chips
dont drug. its a risk - treat it as one
you have more things to go in QG than my spy? than a PPU?
surely you realise all classes have to be quick on their feet? my spy has 333 health (capped con, self buffs, capped implant setup, just lacking in some dex / int) how many CS bursts is that? ok so at cap i will take something like (% damage from all weapon types (except poison) but still spies have to sacrifice health or speed for resists, you think PE's have it harder? try capping at 40 CON
Guys do me a favour.... Play a rifle PE properly and see how difficult it is...
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 14:39
that to the peeps who say its hard or easy? O_o
cos i played BI0CH!MP's rifle PE, piece of piss... RoG to the face (i know it makes no diff with ROLH / ROG but i do it out of habit) and watch them go down
If Stealth would be made Spy only there would be no reason to
play a PE over a Spy, since a Spy can get almost identical defence
if he takes one drug for shelter and better offence and then on
top of that having Stealth, which PEs wouldnt have? Again tell me
why people would want to be PEs over Spies?
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 14:53
Originally posted by Rade
If Stealth would be made Spy only there would be no reason to
play a PE over a Spy, since a Spy can get almost identical defence
if he takes one drug for shelter and better offence and then on
top of that having Stealth, which PEs wouldnt have? Again tell me
why people would want to be PEs over Spies?
con? health? those cool looks (out of PA of course)? the fact that a spy has to cut into his health / runspeed to get really good resists (although i realise all classes do this to an extent)?
personally i play a spy. people bitch at me for having +str imps. well i tell them that the day a PE has one +dex imp and one for 3 of the other stats (as in jack of all trades) is the day my spy will stop using +str imps (as in dex specialist)
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
this is the funniest thing i have read all day (slow day i guess)
Pistol PE is far easier to play than Pistol Spy
As much as I hate to sound like an "oh poor poor me" whiner, I laughed too. Let's look at some numbers, shall we? In my comparison of pistol spy vs pistol PE, I'm assuming each character is using Redflash and Deso Forte and has an SA.
Going with 75/76 ath/agl and stealth 2 puts you at 179 pc with 113 dex on the PE. You'll need a spy 3 to hack OPs really well (or you can sacrifice some range/damage on Slasher). If you're not interested in hacking at all, go pure weapon lore and you'll probably cap Slasher damage. Con is up to you, but 5 minutes in the skill manager and I had a setup which gave me much better resists than my spy, and believe me I've been working on my spy quite a while.
The basic pistol spy with 75/76 ath/agl and stealth 2 will have 185 pc and 120 dex (assuming you drug into pa3). Once again con is up to you, but my spy has 118 fire armor, 120 energy armor, and 310 health (330-ish if I pop a Paratemol Forte to offset Redflash). That's a massive loss of defense for 6 pc. Whee.
Gack, that's the first time I've ever actually compared the two. If I didn't want to avoid being a cookie cutter, I'd be looking for my Disruptor right about now...
Im a Lowtech Pistol PE user, dont nerf me please.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
con? health? those cool looks (out of PA of course)? the fact that a spy has to cut into his health / runspeed to get really good resists (although i realise all classes do this to an extent)?
Except for the fact that PEs and Spies get more or less the same
runspeed, health and effective armor/resist?
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 15:11
please point me at a setup with near capped nrg / fire / xray and capped force / pierce, massive runspeed, and 450-500 health (and yes i know many many PEs with this health)
@morris - sorry dude, but your setup needs a tweak (or the addition of a PPR). im not takin the piss or anything, but i have a better setup than that (although limited to ROLH [which shreds anyway])
-=Blasehase=-
17-12-03, 15:13
Originally posted by Rade
Except for the fact that PEs and Spies get more or less the same
runspeed, health and effective armor/resist?
hey... dont give those whin0rs tips
they should find it out by themselfes
ok... a hint from me:
U DONT NEED TO SKILL XRR ON A SPY
This points u can spend in other skills...
i planned a rifle spy for a friend of mine yesterday, wich only get 2% more dmg than a PE
wich can cap his weapon and hack ops without buff and use stealth 3
if it wont need so much time to lvl it, i would make 1 cause it roxx
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
please point me at a setup with near capped nrg / fire / xray and capped force / pierce, massive runspeed, and 450-500 health (and yes i know many many PEs with this health)
´
Yeah, but then ill point at the fact that he uses a lib/blacksun at
best and takes a load of drugs.
I have made a close combat specced spy, I have made a close
combat specced PE, then I crammed my gead into a vice and
squeezed until I couldnt think of any further improvements or
tweaks, and lo and behold, more or less the only difference was
the fact that the spy needed a drug to cast shelter. The spy had
slightly higher damage output - the PE had slightly higher
defence. Oh and the spy could do more tradeskills.
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 15:32
well i see drugging up as a hollow victory. i dont like the whole "i can take more drugs than j00" thing. my fully capped spy setup includes no drugs (except shelter for duels i guess).
i mean sure if i relied on drugs i could use (some) inq 2, exp foot / leg (foot is possible anyway), gamma bones (maybe BQ), lom ath / agi due to beast ans redflash, etc, etc
however my setup is drug free.
now all you people who cant think of a good drug free spy setup may say "omg! he is gonna be shit! spies need drugs" well im sorry if you dont know of one...
Rade, i respect you as a player and know you know a hell of alot about it. however saying that the defence / runspeed / health of a PE / spy is pretty much the same is taking it a bit far.
ok, if i took all the con / str / dex drugs i would have loads more points to tweak my setup. however i refuse to win due to "short term boost". and thats what drugs should be, not a necessity
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
@morris - sorry dude, but your setup needs a tweak (or the addition of a PPR). im not takin the piss or anything, but i have a better setup than that (although limited to ROLH [which shreds anyway])
I will admit that the setup is pre-rezz nerf and geared for OP wars. PPR was sacrificed in favor of a Redflash setup to avoid triple drugs (for PA) if I died mid-battle and got rezzed. Once I re-cap dex I'll be able to throw a PPR back in since I no longer need to worry about that :p So yes its' a little dated.
Jesterthegreat
17-12-03, 15:47
cool, if ya like i will get around to beating the most out of my setup and send ya a copy to check out. PM me if ya want it, ill try to remember when i get home
Rade: reason to play PEs is... curves. ^.^ Spies have none.
Stay the fuck away from my PE and get some skills.
Not trying to disparage these threads, but everytime I look at the origin of nerf requests, I end up seeing a specific incident that has happened in game, and someone has died. It doesn't always fill me with optimism that I am reading a balanced opinion.
Here is my question on this matter - if the PE is so strong and needs nerfing why do I not see 90% of the population using a PE to fight, and at OP wars? I see monks, tanks and spies at the high end of the game. The only time I see PE's are when they are used as solo pkers who strike and stealth at places like Military Base.
I have a low-tech rifle using Private Eye, so admittedly I haven't tried the RoG/Stealth combo, but didn't the Power Armour requirement go up in the last patch as well? Perhaps I'll have to try this supposedly 'owning' set up you mention.
Also remember that, as some people have mentioned already, it takes much more refining to make a good PE (ie. you must be capped) than it does an effective apu or tank.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Stay the fuck away from my PE and get some skills.
LOL Muerko gets the idea. :lol:
Amazing how many don't realise the first poster was taking the piss.
I think they should set the libby to 2/min as it is much too powerful and ruins opwars. However to make them more balanced they get a feature that allows them to moan over and over until the thing they are moaning about is disabled.
Originally posted by Archeus
Amazing how many don't realise the first poster was taking the piss.
Was just thinking the same.
I'm taking no chances, humour or no.
PEs are not over powered they're just better in some situations than others as are all classes, the only time a nerf stick shoul be used is if a particular class or specialisation becomes more powerful in lots of areas.
Not only that but the Stealth 2+ROLH PE needs to be totally maxed and either requires gimpage or an SA, thats a MC5 chip and very few people have them along with all the other best/rare imps available to a PE.
Originally posted by Archeus
LOL Muerko gets the idea. :lol:
Amazing how many don't realise the first poster was taking the piss.
lol. Just re-read the first post. Didn't notice that, oops.
Ozambabbaz
17-12-03, 18:36
Originally posted by Rade
Was just thinking the same.
forum sarcasm equals i-net lynch mobs :cool:
Yah I can't believe how many people missed the sarcasm, but then again most people don't read past the post title.
I do kind of like the idea for a feather that interrupts spells though.
*sex @ Varaem*
Originally posted by Jest
Yah I can't believe how many people missed the sarcasm
So because the first post was sarcastic we should all ignore the ones that follow it? Why not just blame g0rt? :p
Ozambabbaz
17-12-03, 19:03
Originally posted by Morris
So because the first post was sarcastic we should all ignore the ones that follow it? Why not just blame g0rt? :p
very good point, it's Uber importantrum to have a single, specific target :D
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Stay the fuck away from my PE and get some skills.
Agreed....
I really can't see the sarcasm in the first post, though maybe I've been on these forums for too long. Most real nerf threads sound like that as well. "OMG I GOT KILLED NERF TEH X"
I don't know why, but on pluto, a group of PEs keep on beating a group of Monks... so... nerf teh PEs!
OHNOZ A GROUP OF "A CLASS" BEATS A GROUP OF MONKS!!1111 THAT CANT BE !!11111
NERF TEH "CLASS"
why do you think monks should be the strongest class ingame?
Personally I don't think any class should be intrinsicly better at combat then any other ingame. :)
Originally posted by Varaem
PA is a problem too... I found that the RoLH setup I was using was really really lame. Exp Reflex 4, SA, SF, Ballistic 3, Moto 3 with PA 3 is a great setup for using RoLH.... everything works out just perfectly so that if you wanted, you could add 9 more T-C to the 86 and use Stealth 2. Kinda painful and RoLH damage falls like crazy, but makes PEs very very hard to kill.
Btw, I only play PEs.
Look at my avatar... PE: jack of all trades! Anti rad suit with a plasma cannon.
Oh please get a little bit of fairness here what about the vast majoroty of PE's who don't have an SA or don't have your Uber setups, PA makes them a bit better so if u wanna get rid of PA for those ppl with put a restriction on PA like if ur a PE and Have and SA in you can't wear PA probem solved, I don't think its practical but its more fair that removing PA for every PE.
I also this that After all the PE's bitching about "WE DON'T HAVE ANY PA" when the other classes did its total Hypocritical to now say remove them
wrong
dont nerf the pes
nerf the pistols !!
the pistols are too strong, or all special teams worldwide dumb asses ? all fighting with rifles because easyer to aim and mutch more dmg.
I'd just like to go ahead and repeat for the last 4 posters that the original intent of Varaem was that of a little thing I call sarcasm. I seriously would have thought the feather part would have been a dead give away...
Ok were to start.
Well i have 2 capped pe's one rifle, one pistol both hi-tech.
The rifle pe does not use pe pa and does not require drugs and caps his rog and has good freq on his pain easer. And his gimpage for this? agl he runs so slow when weapon is drawn.
Pistol pe does not have the agl problem but due to his lower damage output his con and resists become much more important.
So comparing the 2 rifle pe has hard time capping damage on a rog with out gimpage or using barrel mods, pistol pe really relies on his pa and resists.
Now on to my rifle spy, still not capped due to numerous loming sessions. Resists not great, damage output good but hard to get the 188 r-c to cap disruptor and first love with out gimping agl.
Using stealth 2 is a gimpage in a way because 95 t-c is more than any of the guns require.
As for using shelter well i find thats a major gimpage. Only 2 points in ppw o_O and you need a good bit of psi use combined with desterol forte inorder to have enough psi energy to cast your spells.
So basically if a spy had shelter without the major gimpage then maybe they can be considered to have similar resists. And i forgot to mention you can only wear 1 belt at a time so thats another problem which only a moveon and drugs can sort out.
So why are all these people complaining about having to drug with their pe? PE's don't need to rely on drugs!
Spy's do if they want comparable resists.
P.S i hate using drugs so my spy is just gimped with having no shelter! :mad:
omg Jest, is mirrorshades going BD? That would make sense, actually... cause you're BD and stuff. ya.
Glad to see at least a few ppl got the sarcasm.
Dribble Joy
18-12-03, 06:33
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
please point me at a setup with near capped nrg / fire / xray and capped force / pierce, massive runspeed,
Capped resist? You mean 200 total armour?
Force/Piercing, yes, PE and melee tank are the only classes that can cap it natuarally.
But getting over 140+ in fire/energy/xray on a PE is tough.
I can do it, but my poison is gimped, so I only have 130-140 fire/xray amd 145ish energy atm.
Jesterthegreat
18-12-03, 11:20
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Capped resist? You mean 200 total armour?
Force/Piercing, yes, PE and melee tank are the only classes that can cap it natuarally.
But getting over 140+ in fire/energy/xray on a PE is tough.
I can do it, but my poison is gimped, so I only have 130-140 fire/xray amd 145ish energy atm.
near capped NRG, fire and xray, capped force / pierce (well, maybe 3 off one of them, but capped and near capped :p)
cos thats what my spy has
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