View Full Version : support your local villain
ok, I posted a thread by this title a long time ago, might have been 2002 - and it subsequently vanished. perhaps it was too inflamatory or something, I havn't a clue. But some things ingame have prompted me to bring it up again.
I'm not sure how we got on it - oh yes. someone said "whatever happened to H.A.T.E. ?" and I said "runspeed got nerfed, rapid fire wepons got nerfed, drops got nerfed, and the SL system was changed such that it's functionally impossible to play with negative SL"
we got to chatting -- on the trade channel of course, it's the only place where everyone is. and we all reminisced generally about how exciting it was with Starkes and friends running around. Some guy even said he just went by their old hideout in IND-2 and he got nervous. well I didn't even know there was an old hideout there, but still -- that's quite a tribute to what they did for the server.
now yes -- they did some pretty negative things as well. with the old drop system losing your main wepon was pretty harsh. especially because most of the people who played are not the experienced players who exist in the game today. there were many new people scrapping for cash and living on the edge a bit trying to figure out the game. having capped chars run around and hurt the game for true noobs and the recently noob was not so cool. and H.A.T.E. would do that as well. they were pretty democratic in their anarchy.
some parts of the new system have worked very well. hunting grounds for example, I would say are a good thing.
but still -- it's a grey area. when are you being a "good villain" and when are you hurting the game.
anyway
these people and people like them were a good thing for the game. they were not invincible, they got killed lots. and gunning for them and watching out for them - well, it's gone from the game now.
suggestions ?
well the clearest one I have would be to make it functionally possible to have negaive SL in the game. the current drop rules make it out of the question pretty much. unless of course you had a cash hack and spare rares filling your cabs. basicly -- you shouldn't face homeric item drop if you have negative SL. There should be some penalty other than copbots killing you but not the current system.
what about these new "mass murderers" that the neochronical speaks of ? amatures. they have the renown of day old cheese on the server compared old school.
change the nodrop in warzone? no, I don't think so. nodrop in warzone is good.
beltsystem or drop items whole? belts are good and itemdrop is good. not sure here. I do like belts though. besides, I've always felt it's the win, not the itemdrop that motivates poeple.
ok - that's it. have at it.
Sorry who are you again?
I think the system is fine.. all those people claiming to be badass because they could kill easy targets are finding they aren't as badass as they thought.
We're better off without them IMO.
Talentless kiddies that need exploits to gank 0/2s really don't add much to the game.
what happened was that HATE was a clan full of high leveled characters or capped characters in a server full of noobs.
they made a name for themselves because players made runners specifically to kill these pks. once their weakness was exposed, runners were leveling their characters centered around that particular weakness.
its not around anymore because almost every noob on the server now has at least 2 capped characters that will come hunting for your ass.
HATE revolved around a libby exploit, runspeed exploit, no belt but highest tl item in your quickbelt dropping, and most of all, pk teamwork. this were times where the pure ppu was non existant and there was no demand for buffs or rez, if you died, you died. noting more to do that to gr.
starkes quit saying the game was too easy that it got boring, he came back later when these exploits were fixed and qiut soon after because he couldnt keep up with actually having to pvp with people who now had skill, the level, uber con setups and he had lost the detrimental aim skill you loose if you dont constantly play this game. thats why hate died, they boasted about being lame, and being proud of it.
i wouldn't say we are better without them, there are certain aspect of what they did that has been moved out of the game through people whining about losing a weapon.
Personally i think there should be some form of reward for killing people, dropping belts in warzones for example but not in hunting zones things like that.
No one fears to go out hunting, if yu get killed you GR out get poked then carry on hunting, its not often you loose something valuable, unless you are daft enough to hunt in a popular pk'ing area with belt drops.
Suggestion- follow factional RP (it is getting harder to avoid, esp with DOY coming up it seems) like most players do, and no one will ever have to whine about playing with neg SL.
theres still bad guys about, just depends on your faction cos these days it doesnt pay ot go around pking ever single person you see, hence HATE dying out.
id like to see em back if only for old times sake but not that bothered.
now the bad guys depend on your faction, if your enemy of BD then were gonna gun ya down, so yeah were the bad guy to you.
just a point but back them most people didnt have a clue about resists so they were all easy killings.
there are some things id like to see liek the ability to be able to go off killing without a PPU needed for extended butt massage periods.
Yes, bad guys are a necessity in this game.
To me it doesn't matter if they gank n00bs or not, because they're doing what they want to do, which is act bad/evil/criminal.
There used to be lots of little groups on each of the servers which used to be put forward as 'villains', and they added alot to the game.
I would zone into PP to do some hunting in the sewers, see a dude with that tag, zone out into P3, take the subway and get into pp 1 that way...
You see, things like villians also breed the neccesity for chaotic good people... And right now there's a general lack of them.
:(
Like I've been saying for awhile: "We get the evil people back, we get teh' heroes back."
I have a random PK clan but people shit their pants when they get killed everywhere they go so for the moment I only have 2 other members.
It does suck a bit whenever u go somehwere u get pked.
Originally posted by Sanch0s
It does suck a bit whenever u go somehwere u get pked.
It's easy to not get killed in this game. Just have to know where to go and where to stay away (or use stealth a lot).
Originally posted by #151988
It's easy to not get killed in this game. Just have to know where to go and where to stay away (or use stealth a lot).
Yeah it's not like it was impossible to avoid HATE when they were about, and there was no stealth then. You just have to keep on your toes if you're travelling through a risky area.
I understand why people are saying they dont miss HATE for exploiting etc. But I do personally miss the constant watching of my back I had to do back then. Got the adrenaline pumping.
I also miss the way I had to get used to perhaps losing something I had spent a day of hard work trying to acquire (such as the vehicles HATE would not hesitate to destroy) - it was just part of the game - one more thing that made me appreciate neocron more as a different game to the contenders - it had a real edgy feel to it.
Syntax-Error
16-12-03, 18:30
Its a fine balance between having to watch your back, and never been able to enjoy hunting cos you have the risk of been ganked. No matter how you look at it. its never fun as a lvl 20 runner to have 2-3 lvl 60+ chars come and kill you.
Originally posted by Archeus
Sorry who are you again?
I think the system is fine.. all those people claiming to be badass because they could kill easy targets are finding they aren't as badass as they thought.
Yup - it's easy for someone to gank a noob and claim he is real hard... when they see someone of similar rank, they won't just storm in on their own - unless they have a pet PPU surgically attached to their ass <------ no prizes for guessing who I am talking about :D
I think that the dropping 5 items (or more) when your SL goes below -16 is a bad idea. It stops people actually roleplaying psychopaths, and I mean really roleplaying them, because real psychopaths wouldn't be allowed into the city because they would be known by the cops and they wouldn't do missions to get rid of the SL because it just didn't matter to them..... the problem is that this game relies upon equipment (something I don't think is ever going to change) that if you lose 5 or 6 of your items then you are fucked. Completely. Especially at capped or very high level. But thats the only thing I would really change about the system, unless there were massive changes to the rare system.
Heavyporker
16-12-03, 18:49
actually...
I still think that out and out villainry is still possible...
I mean, look - just take one favored weapon, go naked (yes, uber CON setup or something close to it) and either one hacktool or a hireling, then go ganking. Yes, it'd take a damn lot of skill, but by damn, then you'd be fucking feared.
Just haunt Pepper Park, Outzone, and there's always the wastelands to hide out when the heat's down. There's the clubs to hide out in... there's your OZ storage apt for a guaranteed stash, there's all those mazes and rooms in the OZ to disappear into... there's the wasteland villages ( Crest, Calida, Point Red, Tawkeen, El Farid, Educador, that house east of TH, the swampland villages, and so on...)
There's fucking more than enough places to hide in.
When you get 500k bounties on your head, you know you made it into the big time.
You want to be a honest to badness, down right RP villain, forget about Plaza and Via Rosso... those are for the weak sheep. Just snatch them up when they stray far from them.
Untold wealth awaits those that have the strength to take it.
Oddly enough, I agree that having a human villian is great fun. Any of you that know me probably think thats odd coming from noob helping tradeskiller...but its true.
Some of the games best moments for me was (being an FA) and sneaking round TH, trying to escape our nemisis MeGaMaN and demon-surge. They where great guys, and we often even chated together, but at the same time it was always that feeling of having to look hard at the people around you that made the game more exciting. Then add in the factor where you try and hunt down the bad guy , fun for all , even though I tended to be more target practice than threat :)
Now a days, you rarely see that. Sure there are pkers, but thats not the same. Most pkers are no pvpers now a days. Don't get me wrong, there are still some good villians out there, but now its mostly gankers that kill you, run off and put the le in, then do mission for sl...
ah the good old days :)
Originally posted by Judge
[B]I think that the dropping 5 items (or more) when your SL goes below -16 is a bad idea. It stops people actually roleplaying psychopaths/B]
No it doesn't stop people. What it does stop is a large number of people playing them. If you have the skill then the loss of items wouldn't matter.
You loose 5 items when you die. Big swing, I lost more then that over the weekend and I have positive soullight (never hunting in battle dome again -_- ).
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Its a fine balance between having to watch your back, and never been able to enjoy hunting cos you have the risk of been ganked. No matter how you look at it. its never fun as a lvl 20 runner to have 2-3 lvl 60+ chars come and kill you.
I dont necessarily agree with that, being killed at that level just highlights this risks you face in the world of neocron. Back when there was HATE, it wasnt like you couldnt hunt anywhere at all.
It's like now (or at least a few months ago), people complain they cant level because MB keeps getting raided on Saturn but there are countless other hunting places for that level. It is possible to avoid the PKers, they cant be in every zone at once.
As noobs at that time (Dec last year), my friends and I still managed to do plenty of hunting in the wastes with the risks of PKers like starkes, often uninterrupted.
Originally posted by Marx
To me it doesn't matter if they gank n00bs or not, because they're doing what they want to do, which is act bad/evil/criminal.
You do realise criminals have motives right?
Other than being a prick for the sake of it I mean.
All I ever saw when there was the attempted return was those runners getting abused by the nibbiest of players.
nerfs,SL, drop system changes I think not.
Originally posted by jernau
You do realise criminals have motives right?
Other than being a prick for the sake of it I mean.
Most criminals have a motive for their crime.
;)
Originally posted by Marx
Most criminals have a motive for their crime.
;)
Sociopaths are EXTREMELY rare IRL.
Villians are a necessary part of any game. Without villians you have no heroes. (Though ironically enough, without villians, the heroes often become the villians themselves, Ive seen it happen in this game many times). Sure I think killing low level players or playing with the policy "red = dead" is wrong, but only wrong on a level that I wouldn't play that way. In many ways we need players like that.
If I had a dollar for everytime a PKer claimed to have a "serial killer" or "criminal" RP and actually acted like a serial killer or criminal, I would have zero dollars.
When you get down to it, 99% of the "I am RPing the bad guy" people just want to kill whoever for no reason, and dont wanna be assed with having to play an actual role. At least Vett is being straight up honest about it instead of feeding people a BS RP line.
Someone- list off the serial killers that simply killed everyone they came across, without a reason....
This game will ALWAYS have bad guys. Perhaps we need to broaden our definition of bad guy to mean something aside just someone that ignores all aspects of RP in a RP based combat game.
Originally posted by Archeus
No it doesn't stop people. What it does stop is a large number of people playing them. If you have the skill then the loss of items wouldn't matter.
Yes it does.... everyone dies sometimes, there is no escaping it. Wether to mass gankage or to bugs. And no amount of skill will let you win with an unlabeled Plasma cannon against a CS, so yeah losing high level items does matter.
Originally posted by Archeus
You loose 5 items when you die. Big swing, I lost more then that over the weekend and I have positive soullight (never hunting in battle dome again -_- ).
Yes but did you lose what was in your safe slot? Doubt it, thats what does happen when you have -16 SL safe slot doesn't count any more and as your rare is most probably one of your most high ranking TLs it is very likely you are going to drop it.... Can you still be a sociopath/psychopath with no weapons/armour? Nope. Can you regain those within say.... the next month? Not really.... unless you have some friends who don't mind you being a psychopath, but then having friends wouldn't really be roleplaying a psychopath would it?
Originally posted by jernau
Sociopaths are EXTREMELY rare IRL.
Wrong. There are not many diagnosed sociopaths. Ten identifying characteristics of sociopaths:
not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness
I think you and I can agree that there are numerous people we've dealt with througout our lives that exhibit most, if not all of those characteristics
All of our behavioral patterns align themselves along a continiuum and the 'behaviors' of sociopaths are found on one extreme end of it. They have no conscience, an extraordinary charm and ability to influence other people for their own ends. (Eh? Eh? Sounds like most of the upper echelon groups of Corperate America to me... Hell, most upper echelon corperate entities throughout the world.)
The world is full of sociopaths, most are not 'documented' perse' because they've yet to do something which would earn them notireity. Not to mention most psychiatrists don't diagnose people as such due to the extremely negetive image of a 'sociopath'. They might use other terms to pretty up the issue, i.e. "Personality Disorder".
Hell, some sociopaths are deemed useful or beneficial to society based on their actions, and how their psychological issue has affected those actions and their outcome.
Most of our criminal base, and buisness echelons have sociopathic tendencies. They all strive for power, and in most cases will take extreme risks to attain more power. Hell, power itself comes in many forms, whether it be money, fame, sexual domination, etc.
It could probably be stated with some surety that most criminals are sociopathic, or at least show sociopathic tendencies - that is, if they're not flat out crazy (as in, they're not in the proper mental condition to understand their crime and why it's wrong).
I am pretty sure he meant killers Marx, not just plain sociopaths.
Every well known serial killer has killed with a reason in terms of who was killed. No one just walked around killing any human they came into contact with.
Originally posted by Strych9
I am pretty sure he meant killers Marx, not just plain sociopaths.
Every well known serial killer has killed with a reason in terms of who was killed. No one just walked around killing any human they came into contact with.
Most murderers are not serial killers. And most murders are not commited by serial killers.
;)
Oh, and care to explain David Burkowitz's motivation? Aside from the talking dog and unexplained voices.
Well, take what I say and apply it to mass murderers then. The point still stands, regardless of the lable used. :)
The point is that in RL, people that kill other people have a reason. No one in RL simply kills others for no reason. And for obvious reasons, no one in RL runs around killing every other person they come into contact with.
So when a random PKer tries to justify their lack of RP by using RL criminal comparisons, that comparison fails.
Originally posted by Judge
Yes but did you lose what was in your safe slot? Doubt it,
I'm a bloody PPU, the safe slot means dick to me. I lost my PPU PA, Holy Heal (slotted), Holy Heal Sanctumx2 (slotted+store bought) and Soul Cluster (93/93 slotted).
I have to replace them out of my own pocket (thank god for tips).
Can you still be a sociopath/psychopath with no weapons/armour? Nope.
Sure you can, it just gets a hell of a lot harder. Sociopath, tend to be a bit more relaxed in killing and probably relates to the majority that gank a few people then sit out the SL change.
The problem with lots of people is eventually, a lot of people will come gunning for you, Faction killing allows you to hide behind the protection of the game (Safe slot, safe zones, other faction members helping).
But if you want to kill everything that moves, then you have to have some form of punishment imposed on your actions.
.. Btw the only real roleplaying mindless killer I have met in this game is SHINJIN. Actually getting attacked by him was fun.
Originally posted by Marx
Oh, and care to explain David Burkowitz's motivation? Aside from the talking dog and unexplained voices. Burkowitz didnt kill every human he came across. He only killed white couples and women, and usually killed them while they were in their car.
The point is that there was still an intended victim. He didnt run around and just kill anyone that he laid eyes on.
He had a MO and he stuck to it. He drove around late at night (only) and he attacked lone females or females with a male companion (only). Regardless of what motivated him.
Originally posted by Strych9
Well, take what I say and apply it to mass murderers then. The point still stands, regardless of the lable used. :)
:)
Himmler, Mengele, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, Gary Leon Ridgway, Henry Lee Lucas, Wayne Williams, Ted Bundy.
The point is that in RL, people that kill other people have a reason. No one in RL simply kills others for no reason
John Lee Malvo.
So when a random PKer tries to justify their lack of RP by using RL criminal comparisons, that comparison fails.
Not really, there have been criminals who just killed for the sake of killing in real life. Hell, there've been dictators, rulers, etc that have done the same.
If people want to go for it and randomly kill people, fine. But they have to live with the consequences afterwards.
As those who've done it in real life have.
Of course if the player is 'randomly' killing hostile factions... I see no problem with that. *shrug*
didnt kill every human he came across
Most RPK's don't either. Hence random.
He didnt run around and just kill anyone that he laid eyes on
He killed when he had an urge. During his 'urge' he selected a victim (in most of the cases someone who was near him at the time) and stalked them until their demise.
He had a MO
So do RPKers.
My point is that no one in real life kills just everyone. EVery dictator you named killed a lot of people, but not every person in their country. Only a specific class/type of people.
If someone kills everyone they see in an enemy faction, that is better than just pure random killing. At least then you have the "you are my factional enemy" excuse which IS valid RP.
Now if someone claims to be a random PKer and they are in a clan, then I consider that to be a joke as well.
My point is that no one in real life kills just everyone
I can agree that there's yet to be a person who's killed everyone, simply because in most cases its impossible.
:)
Now if someone claims to be a random PKer and they are in a clan, then I consider that to be a joke as well.
Agreed.
Only a specific class/type of people
Not only, but they made up a majority.
Originally posted by Marx
I can agree that there's yet to be a person who's killed everyone, simply because in most cases its impossible.
Hehe, I realized how that sounded and edited it. Meant to say those people only killed a type of person- not simply any person (the 'all' I used meant all types of people, not *all* people... hehe).
Yeah, fortunately, no one has killed ALL people yet. :p
Naw, I wasn't taking a stab at you, just agreeing that there's yet to have been a person who killed anyone and everyone they came across just yet.
Simply because by the time most people come of age, they're already programmed to accept certain things, be polite to others, etc.
Those that kill have been shown to have corrupted that 'programming'. Something went wrong when they were young and impressionable, or maybe their brain chemistry was just weak and faltered somehow. Both of which generally have lead to the killers targeting specific types/groups while not targeting others.
*shrug*
Now that the number of kids without proper parental guidance is on the rise (at least in the US, dunno' about everywhere else ;) ), I can say with some surety that we're going to have some interesting serial killers/mass murderers in our near future.
:lol:
I actually think the belt drop thing is bullshit, to be honest. I get so fucking pissed off every time I die if I see someone standing over my belt, with their hand all cockneyed. Just make it so we drop an item again instead of a belt, so I can stop cursing hacker's names.
JackScratch
17-12-03, 01:35
I hate this crap, you people have rationalised bad behavior, that of yourselves and of others. These people you have glorified are self serving and inconciderate. Random, and faction PKers do not add anything good to the game, they do not. Now I do have to comend KK for giveing runners the freedom to behave like this, but I will not condone the aproval of such behavior. Random PKers, and in my opinion Faction PKers should be ostricised from the game. The should not only be griefed, but upstanding citicens should make it imposible for them to business as well. I understand giveing us the right to chose, but that does not justify a failer to chse what is right. I have argued this point time and time again, and each time the same crap arguements come up, so please don't bother telling me about how you make the game more enjoyable, or about how KK ment the game to be played this way, they are bullshit. You can also spare me the, well just don't put yourself in a position to be PKed, Bullshit as well. Now please don't get me wrong, this game is very well designed and I wish for no changes. I very much enjoy the fact that there are limitless oportunities for PvP situations, which are enjoyable for all. I am not speaking of any of the millions of just reasons for 2 or more runners to meet in combat. However, if your victim is not aware of your desire to do them harm till the first shot is fired, the you are an inconsiderate prick.
there is no such thing as a PKer in this game anymore, anyone who says the system is fine is wrong, because there can't be nerves or mad adrenaline rush without item loot drops off runners, to pk constantly once u capped without having to hunt and that crap to gain money is sochial life killing, anyone who can manage it must have no life.
the only way to cause a nervous atmosphere is to make a bigger risk of loosing something then a peice of armor.
people like the ones ive seen in this thread who are putting down HATE saying we left because we did'nt own anymore are chatting shit. i admit we was not the most skilled players around, but we knew how to pk. and pk and personal skill is different, if the sl system was not messed up and you could still play while red it would be ok as long as normal SL players dropped a rare, i say this because you actually gained something back and it causes the cycle of crime effect as the goverment talks about in the real world, get me. giving reason to carry on playing, but there is no cycl of crime if there is loss and no gain which the system is now
all of hate struggled soon as there was no item loot, we barely had any money, and we could not live up to our name because we was mostly out killing monsters, when we could have been pkin others and gettin our fund from that.
all you players sayin the system is fine like to kill monsters, where as we dont. and whats it cause? an atmosphere that is not stark or scary anymore. so ask your selves, are u really sure this is a game? or is this just a FPS you pay for now? kill gain jack but an ego and a dogtag oh and a lovely peice of armor if u want to hack a belt, shi'it u be lucky to get that.
so whats the solution? neptune as i said many many many many times before, but it still is not out. when neptune is released, i guarantee the whole HATE crew will be back. and then we will proove all you people wrong that we can still live up to our name, but it is not our fault all the run speed and speichalization was in the same patch as the pk nerf. oh and i also find it funny how the only clans which can cause dramatics on a serevr now is the biggest clan around, where as back in the day a small clan such as hate made a bigger anme then any off these big clans around nowadays and last couple of months all because off item loot and the good sl system back then. but no, kk only enjoy to make players kill monsters, or join the biggest clan around to kick ass
so uh, neptune........ hurry up martin mate
seursy
Hrrrrrr hrrrrrrrrrr Well I am TG and MANY factions are hostile and random PK are fun.... "when they are over 50+++++++" gank a 12/30 aint fun =P
Then you only give a bad reputation to this game. Leave the lonly runners alone let them lvl and just kill your enemy faction clans. "or the clans that you are war with :D"
I mean when you are capped the only thing you can do is tech hunt and OP wars "PvP" So get out there fear to die and if you see a hostile runner kill it if hes a threat to you :D
Marx - wrt "sociopaths" - I think it's a difference of definition. The one you are using is based on the modern psychiatric model which is largely designed to allow morons to charge the maximum $$$s/hour for the production of hot air. This aim means they want to be able to label as many people as possible, hence a loose definition. I was refering to the more severe, original meaning - someone who is aims to harm other people whenever and wherever possible. This meaning is a lot closer to the "I RP a killer" claims. People like this are extremely rare, as I said.
Most of the names you subsequently mentioned had reasons, however misguided.
every role should be valid, there should be no medeling with peoples roles from the devs, which is the reason for such a small player database in this game. alot of you all say its down to hardly any advertisin but the truth is not that. all the poeple ive spoken too in other games who known about neocron say they neiteh bother trying it because its filled with lamer pkers, but it aint, it used to be, but 90% of this game is carebears now, but this game has lost its pk database due to the pk nerf, and the game is everquest, but with a pk reputation which is the real deal.
Originally posted by Style
every role should be valid, there should be no medeling with peoples roles from the devs, which is the reason for such a small player database in this game. alot of you all say its down to hardly any advertisin but the truth is not that. all the poeple ive spoken too in other games who known about neocron say they neiteh bother trying it because its filled with lamer pkers, but it aint, it used to be, but 90% of this game is carebears now, but this game has lost its pk database due to the pk nerf, and the game is everquest, but with a pk reputation which is the real deal.
Is this meant to be as ironic as it is?
wtf, there is no irony in it, so dont try n clock me blud, whats the irony
JackScratch
17-12-03, 02:17
WOW, are these forums where unfounded blanket statements go to die. What the hell do you base what you are saying on? People you talked to? That's a steaming pile. And then we get to the name calling, "carebear" what is that crap, Im a PvPer, I happen to like PvP, you call me a "carebear" why, cause Im not a piece of shit PKer, OK Ill go with that. As for the "Failure of NC" speach, save it, there are far more reliabe, nonbiased sources for that info. It just sounds like another "and that is why PKing is realy great" spiel to me.
whatever, what do u want me to call you, sweetheart?
Originally posted by Style
wtf, there is no irony in it, so dont try n clock me blud, whats the irony
To paraphrase :
"this game is failing because you won't play it how I want you to"
"this game has a reputation for being how I want it to be".
These opinions don't really work well together.
Clownst0pper
17-12-03, 02:29
Style I 100% agree, so much so that on saturn I am going back to PKing soul light lost and all, I dont care if I end up loosing all my rares and end up using low tech weapons.
The fun ill get from it will be worth it, hopefully some people will join me :cool:
Clownst0pper
17-12-03, 02:33
WOW, are these forums where unfounded blanket statements go to die. What the hell do you base what you are saying on? People you talked to? That's a steaming pile. And then we get to the name calling, "carebear" what is that crap, Im a PvPer, I happen to like PvP, you call me a "carebear" why, cause Im not a piece of shit PKer, OK Ill go with that. As for the "Failure of NC" speach, save it, there are far more reliabe, nonbiased sources for that info. It just sounds like another "and that is why PKing is realy great" spiel to me
Nope but its people like yourself and 99% of this community that moan when there killed in there faction HQ or Area such as TG
So much so that we now have a shit belt system
So much so that we now have a shit faction guard system of extreme damage, range, and too many of them
So much so that Pkers no longer exist to make this game thrilling
So much so that any chance of being a PKer is at 0% as the soulight problems outweight the point in becomming one.
Neocron is like DAoC. Built on PVP but in lab settings.
Make it how it was when I first joined. No safe slots, Faction guards but not too many, and Soulight which had some sort of impact.
Curse the day KK gave into forum fools who are nothing more than carebears in a game that was born to be dark, challenging, PVP orientated and all in all Roleplay based. :mad:
BRING BACK PKERS!
JackScratch
17-12-03, 02:34
Who says you have to "call" me anything. You want to clasify everyone who doesn't believe as you do in the same, unflatering, way, when it is in fact you who is wrong. How do I know you are wrong? I'm glad you asked. I know you are wrong, because your actions effect others in a way that they have not chosen to be effected. You see, the very existance of this arguement, means that my view of it is correct. Now if you engage someone who has agreed to be engaged, then fate or skill decides the outcome. But, when you attack someone without there knowledge of an impending attack, then you have violated there civil rights. You have become an inconciderate prick, ( I say become, my bet there is no actual change, but you get the point.) Like I said, there are many valid PvP situations, and hell, Ganking certainly is one, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do, it is still a malitious act, game, no game, big effect, no big effect. An individuals rights extend to the boundries of the rights of others. You have clearly over stepped your bounds. As a valid society I am asking that all rise together to put you in your place.
Clown -
Why do you think so many people were "whining"?
Why do you think KK listened?
Do you always blame others for everything??
Marx - wrt "sociopaths" - I think it's a difference of definition
Nope, check all the definitions out there. There are alot more than you state, they're not 'extremely rare'.
;)
Oh, and Jack, pull that stick out of your ass. You're not high and mighty, so stop acting like any person who enjoys fighting is a shit demon.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Marx
Nope, check all the definitions out there. There are alot more than you state, they're not 'extremely rare'.
;)
I think you'll find that's because the psychobabblers now use sociopath and pyschopath as similes. ;)
Originally posted by jernau
I think you'll find that's because the psychobabblers now use sociopath and pyschopath as similes. ;)
Not to the patients face I hope.
;)
JackScratch
17-12-03, 04:14
way to show you aren't paying atention Marx. "Yay team". You know, every time I make my case, clearly and concisely, someone retorts with something that makes absolutely no sence to anyone who has read my post. If you don't know how to read, don't reply. I din't make anything "Sound Like" anything. I Stated that if you effect another person, intentionaly, negatively, and without provacation, you are a dick head. For many of you, your posts tell me that without the need for your actions.
then you have violated there civil rights
With stuff like this in your post... I think your point is laughable at best.
I Stated that if you effect another person, intentionaly, negatively, and without provacation, you are a dick head. For many of you, your posts tell me that without the need for your actions
I hope you're not excluding yourself?
Sound Like
What you write spews forth so much angsty BS - which is counterproductive to your goal of a "BAD D00D FREE" Neocron.
I admire your goals, really! Hell, for a long time I fought for the same ideals... However your militant stance on the issue is... eh...
*cough*
Well, let's just say that it's hard for one to take you seriously most of the time.
JackScratch
17-12-03, 05:10
I can see where you would consider anyone suggesting that, those who do not treat there ffellow runner with the bare minimum of respect are assholes, a dickhead. Realy, why is it, that all anti PKing replies sound like, " I can't rebut that, but if it is true then I can't do any damn thing I want, so it must not be true."? I tell people that its wrong to randomly Kill other runners and everyone acts like I have some debilitateing mental desiese. Have any of you realy listened to yourselves?
I tell people that its wrong to randomly Kill other runners and everyone acts like I have some debilitateing mental desiese.
It's not wrong.
Are these random people enemies?
Are they friendly factioned?
Are they n00bs?
Are they vets?
If the person who dies is in a faction that's hostile to the person who killed them, they should learn to be more cautious in their actions (if they can't fight back). Instead of doing that, they go against common sense and walk back into the lions den.
Oh, You were killed in the sewers of P1? Pity, GOOD THING THERE ARE 2 OTHER SEWERS NOT INCLUDING THE AGGIE CELLARS AND MUTANT PIT.
Random player killers get their day in court, hypothetically, thanks to the soul light system. Also, last time I checked there are other players who could possibly make life hard for the persons/people in question. However that doesn't seem to be happening. As I've been saying: "If we get true villians again, we'll also get heroes."
Thanks to all the clan bullshit, everything around nowadays is a different shade of grey. In early retail, it was black, white, and a little bit of grey. Certain clans used to protect and help n00bs while fighting off EVIL PK d00Ds. Both parties involved in the conflict got the fight they were looking for while the lowbie continued leveling in peace. If things got hairy and the defender looked as if he or she was about to fall, then it's time to get the fuck out of dodge... And if as the lowbie, you didn't leave, you were a retard and deserved to die.
I want this facet to return to the game, you don't.
:wtf:
JackScratch
17-12-03, 06:47
Originally posted by Marx
It's not wrong.
I want this facet to return to the game, you don't.
:wtf:
Ah, the standard PKer retoric, I, me, me, I want, gimme gimme, no one can tell me what to do. I liked it better when. Bad news Marx, it's not all about you. See that is the Random/Faction PK mentality. How you want it to be. You have never given a second thought to anyone else. Now, here is the kicker, I don't get PKed. Im a capped PPU. No one even bothers to try, course, then, it's not all about me. It's about everyone. Now I know you have you covered, but you are going to have to come up with something better than, the game would suck without PKers, crap to cover the rest of the populace.
Jack, I love your generalizations. Anyway, we already had this conversation, remember? Yeah, the one where you pretty much ended by saying "blah blah, you're all wrong and I'm right no matter what you say".
it's not all about me. It's about everyone
So you're saying that an enviroment where new players are given assistance and an in-game role model is bad?
I mean, hell. Most new players now are given a cold shoulder and a 'stfu n00b'. There are some players who assist and try to make life easier (Yay Cred!)... But most really don't give a rats ass.
You have never given a second thought to anyone else
Like I said in my thread where you bombarded my character... You don't know me, You've never interacted with me, you don't know what I do. Your opinion of me is moot, biased, and frankly a retarded farce.
Now I know you have you covered, but you are going to have to come up with something better than, the game would suck without PKers, crap to cover the rest of the populace
It would suck. Why? Because they're the people who keep you on your toes when you're hunting. They're the people who motivate you to explore more to find ways around obstructions. They're the ones who force you to adapt to your enviroment. They the ones who force you, as a new player, out of your shell. They the ones who give you tunnel vision as you try to run away when you're mid leveled. Lastly, they're the ones who show you what the game has to offer.
But of course, you don't see that.
no one can tell me what to do
You're not the boss of me, much in the way I'm not the boss of you. As long as people play within the rules put forth by KK, what is the issue? Oh, they're not playing as good moral characters? Guess what, they have that option. Just because it clashes with your idea of what constitutes playing neocron doesn't mean it's wrong.
Now, here is the kicker, I don't get PKed. Im a capped PPU
ONOZ, I HAV A NERLY CAPED REPHAIR/REESERCH SPY AND A CONSTRUCKTION PE ON TEH PLUTO.. I MAK FREE STUFF 4 NEW PLAYARS & ASSIST NEW PLAYARS... BUT I AM EVIL MANZ BECUZ WIT MY OTHER PE I LYK 2 FITE PEEPOL
:rolleyes:
JackScratch
17-12-03, 08:08
And thankyou Marx for so elequently makeing my point, yet again.
Originally posted by JackScratch
And thankyou Marx for so elequently makeing my point, yet again.
It's eloquent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eloquent), 'thank you' is two seperate words, and there's no 'e' in making.
:confused:
JackScratch
17-12-03, 08:42
you got a pretty crapy outlook on humanity for an english teacher, I thought they screened you guys.
Originally posted by JackScratch
you got a pretty crapy outlook on humanity for an english teacher, I thought they screened you guys.
Two p's in crappy.
How's my outlook crappy? You know, since...
You don't know me, You've never interacted with me, you don't know what I do. Your opinion of me is moot, biased, and frankly a retarded farce
:confused:
HATE must be a clan like The Johnsons....wow they just now started their random pkin crap...I personally just think its real annoying. The way i see it the more i get attacked, the higher my con gets (if it aint capped alread) Look at the brightside...;)
JackScratch
17-12-03, 09:07
NOTE: Subject exhibits hostility to subjects of morality and civic duty, hold for observation.
Originally posted by JackScratch
NOTE: Subject exhibits hostility to subjects of morality and civic duty
Er, where?
:confused:
Originally posted by Marx
Thanks to all the clan bullshit, everything around nowadays is a different shade of grey. In early retail, it was black, white, and a little bit of grey. Certain clans used to protect and help n00bs while fighting off EVIL PK d00Ds. Both parties involved in the conflict got the fight they were looking for while the lowbie continued leveling in peace. If things got hairy and the defender looked as if he or she was about to fall, then it's time to get the fuck out of dodge... And if as the lowbie, you didn't leave, you were a retard and deserved to die.
I want this facet to return to the game, you don't.
I agree with you totally. This is what sold neocron to me, this is what made me put up with all the initial crashing. When I got involved in these situations as a new player, helping a clan find the location of a pker in the sewers - player created content, it was incredible - not something I had seen in other games. That is what PKers add to the game.
@Jack - I've never been a Pker, but at the same time, I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever with being PKed. It's all part of the game.
Regardless of the attacking players motives, when they kill you, they kill you. I personally think with most mmorpgs, it's _you_ who makes the game _you_ want to play. If you want to believe that last attacker had some issues with your faction (say they killed his friends or whatever), or if you want to believe that the attacker is a psychopath it's up to you. IMO, it makes the game a bit more immersive if you are not constantly thinking of people as 'piece of shit pkers'.
We need to clarify what a role is. Roles are pre-defined ways that you can govern your character. For example- "Factionalist" is a role- a factionalist is one that adheres to their factional loyalties (i.e. a CA factionalist wouldnt EVER deal with a TG runner in any way) and would defend factional territory to the death. For a factionalist, every enemy of that faction is fair game at all times.
Now, is there a list somewhere of Roles? No, no list. So how do you know if your "role" is a valid one? Here are some tips for making a good legit role:
1. Does the role make sense inside of the realm of Neocron? Meaning, within the fictional world of Neocron, given all we know about it, does it make sense? Does the role fit in with everything else in society? If Neocron was an ACTUAL society, would there actually be someone doing what you are doing, and how you are doing it?
2. Is the role internally logically consistent? Do you justify your role one way, and then act in another way that is contrary to the first? For example, do you claim to kill everyone you see, but you are part of a clan (i.e. a group of people you dont kill)? Do you claim to be a CA advocate but then have an alliance with a TG clan, or get services from TG members?
3. Does the role work within the rules of the game of Neocron? Does your role only exist because of an exploit or bug in the gaming system? If so, then its not a valid role.
If the answer is yes to all three, then I consider it a valid and ACTUAL "Role."
Originally posted by numb
IMO, it makes the game a bit more immersive if you are not constantly thinking of people as 'piece of shit pkers'. I think that everyone, if they want immersion, needs to make effort to make their RP efforts known.
Take these two acts:
1. You are running around the CRP trying to kill fire mobs, and someone runs up and kills you.
2. You are trying to get a weapon built, and you are refused service by a high level constructor.
Now those two acts can be upsetting. Now, view them this way:
1. You are a CA runner, running around CRP trying to kill fire mobs. A TG tank says on local chat "The followers of Reza are not welcomed so close to our home." and then starts attacking you.
2. You are a TG runner, that snuck into the city, and are in Plaza 1, avoiding the guards, trying to get work done. You open trade with the CA constructor, and he closes the window, declaring that "I would never donate my skills to any Twilight Guardian scum."
Now in the second two cases, you at least know WHY things happened. You may not be happy, but you know what to do to avoid it from happening again.
The difference in the first set and second set of examples is simply a little injection of RP. Now I am not saying that some sort of huge declaration needs to be made, but I bet a lot of people that are the victims of a PKer would often just like to know who killed them and why (assuming there is a legit reason).
Just an idea.
Clownst0pper
17-12-03, 20:33
@ Jernau, Yes I blame 90% of this forum who moan, mump and grump at everything that causes them the romotest of hassle/time
Just take the GR changes, everyone wants them gone. Y? because they have to walk OMFG my heart pumps purple piss for you, idle bastards.
Thats the problem with neocron, KK give in too easy, and 90% of the community is carebears.
Ill never forget the rush of AO when Pkers were about, the fact I may loose something important.
The only rush I get from this game now is that my SA might pop out my head. Otherwise I couldnt give a monkeys.
The community of carebears is to blame, those twats that come from everquest :mad:
@ anyone who thinks PKing shouldnt exist because it disrupts peoples gamming experiance, go and play everquest. Or infact stay away from MMORPG's as a death in Neocron spells what? OH 2 minutes impaired and a quick poke.
The consequences are just to great :lol:
Childs play this game is now :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Just take the GR changes, everyone wants them gone. Y? because they have to walk OMFG my heart pumps purple piss for you, idle bastards.
Thats the problem with neocron, KK give in too easy, and 90% of the community is carebears.Looks like the term carebear has now lost all meaning.
First- the GR changes. There are a LOT of players that like fighting that dont like the GR changes. People that want to fight like being able to get to the fight quickly. More fighting USUALLY isnt associated with carebears.
Also, the GR changes were made solely because players fighting in Op wars asked for them, not because of a "carebear" (meaning one that wants to avoid fights).
Not to mention the fact that because of synch problems, a lot of players cannot easily drive/walk across large amounts of wastelands.
Second, on KK giving in too easily. KK gave in to player requests for the GR rules. The PvPers didnt like the fact that enemies could genrep in to an op. You like the GR rules. So is KK giving in a bad thing or good thing?
If you want a rush, go killing people. You hear in these forums as much whining from the PKers about how hard it is to PK due to SL rules as you hear from "carebears."
The GR rules are in place though and I've seen nothing to indicate that might change.
ey yo, nailed it on da head wiv a mallet get me.
people who are for the quickbelt and safe slot dont seem to relize dat you guys can carry on playing, where as people who go roundgames like i do, and many others cant play with the quickbelt and safe slot shit, which is why the serevrs for neocron went from peak ime 600 to peak time 200-300 what it is now. u guys who are for the changes can PUT up with the no quickbelt or safe slot, so why be for it when its ruined this game.
@jernau, you dont buy a gun if you are against violence, even if it dont shoot. think about it, you saying about me 2 statements. same thing ere with neocron being classed as a pker game when it is actually everyquest in a unrealistic world. thats what i meant
Originally posted by jernau
The GR rules are in place though and I've seen nothing to indicate that might change. ´
Only change that made was getting the BIG clans BIGGER!
So thats why you see the whole map getting owned by 3 big clans.
Like Pluto "Dark - FF - NDA" 3 big clans that swallow all players and the others cant fight them because of monkocron. Still need some amount of PPU:s and APU:s to win a OP else its fucked.
JackScratch
17-12-03, 20:50
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
@ Jernau, Yes I blame 90% of this forum who moan, mump and grump at everything that causes them the romotest of hassle/time
Thats the problem with neocron, KK give in too easy, and 90% of the community is carebears.
The community of carebears is to blame, those twats that come from everquest :mad:
@ anyone who thinks PKing shouldnt exist because it disrupts peoples gamming experiance, go and play everquest. Or infact stay away from MMORPG's as a death in Neocron spells what? OH 2 minutes impaired and a quick poke.
The consequences are just to great :lol:
Childs play this game is now :rolleyes:
Im betting you have no idea what is fundamentaly idiotic about what you have writen here.
The audacity of a company listening to the desires of 90% of its market, that just makes no sence at all does it? What you don't seem to get, and no Random/Faction PK advocate ever does, is that no one is even suggesting that PvP be affected in any way. All the "CareBears" as you so in apropriotly call them, want, is a way to enjoy the game, without the presence of the mindless, idiotic "all must die" mentality. Now, for those who are to stupid to enjoy all the completely non combat aspects of this game, I would realy, seriously, no foolin, recomend you go play CS, of course if that is completely out of the question(as it seems to be) then I invite you to kill each other over and over forever amen, and leave the rest of the comunity the fuck alone. Chalange each other to duels, go on OP raids, declare clan wars, whatever, but stop attacking people randomly, and without provication. IT IS WRONG, and I realy don't care what KKs opinion is about it. KK makes the rules, and they have done a damn fine job at that, but they have given you a freedom, a freedom that Random/Faction PKers have abused. Thus the arguement we are haveing here
Style - You are wrong about why the numbers are down. They have been in a slow decline almost since launch because that was the only time Neocron got any PR/Advertising. Once the PR stopped the number of new joiners fell off. It's that simple, nothing more nor less.
You claim people leave because the game has more depth than CS but there are at least as many people who claim exactly the opposite.
Neither stance is wholly accurate though it is very clear from every MMORPG out there that there is more money in making games the way you don't like them. That's why they end up "carebear" - because people demand it when groups like HATE make it their aim to destroy the game for the majority of players.
/edit - @tott3 - I was just pointing out an inconsistency in Clownstopper's argument ;)
the thing is jernau, i dont call jusrt anyone carbear, i call people who are against pkers totally because they want the game the same as CS but with unbalenceness. shit i dont just play games to kill pople virtually who are against the way i play, i would kill PIMP if i played on the same serevr as them, and shit they aint carebears, they just know what RP is. and if u cant play any role you want it may aswell be called zelda, (wikid game btw, im just saying for exampl) its like a single player game, eveyone is da same, pvper or a mob killer, the good(mob killer/duelistfairplaya) the bad(pvper) and... there is no ugly. u know what im saying bruv
and jackscracth u dont seem to relize why we are saying no to quickbelt and safeslot... and u telling us to go play CS, the reaosn we dont play fps and come play MMOs is to escape gaining something other then an ego fo capin someones ass
So how many carebears do you actually see posting in the forums? I know of only one really.
PKers act like the forum is overrun with them, but you will be hard pressed to find a post from someone that is simply against all PKing.
im chattin about pker rules strych.
JackScratch, you are a total carebear. Dont say "oh Im a total peacemonger who never wants people to fight and everyone to hold hands and sing and help each other and for this to be a total pvm game with the occasional freindly op war where everyone shackes hands afterwords... but im not a carebear" That makes no sense... your a carebear buddy. Some people have great fun killing others... thats why I do it. its just fun, it makes ME happy. I was driving around in a tank lasnt night with a freind, gunning down people, a lot of the neutrals or allies. I was laughing in real life, having a great time. A lot of people like killing others... its thrilling to be the bad guy and be the killer, and have them come after you all pissed seeking revenge and then killing them again. Many people like the danger and excitement of being the hunter and hunted. Neocron is a pvp game. If you dont like it, go to comp usa and pick up barbie dream house. If you need a mmorpg, theres the sims. But stop ruining what NC is... a pvp focused game.
Wow....... I hope the people at ReaKKtor are reading this.
I just read every post... and..... I wanna make a killer that hangs out around 1 place :P
Screw rares, he would just lose em. Make a few friends that you wont PK, then get them to build your stuff, research them, etc...
If you need money, hunt certain mobs, get certain stuff thats worth alot, sell them.
I wanna make a killer now :p One who kills anyone that gets within the area of his zone :p
PHEAR MEH ON URANUS/JUPITER/VENUS! I dont know which server.....
May do it on Uranus, I would be TG and wouldnt kill EVERYONE as Im in a clan there.....
but if its on Jupiter or Venus, WATCH OUT I SAY!\
ReaKKtor.... take a GOOD look at this thread.....
For the record, I am often posting on what appears to be the side of the "carebear" but allow me to clarify my position on PKing and PvP:
This is obviously a PvP game, and it always will be. No on has a reason to whine, because those that want to fight can duke it out til their heart is content, and those that dont want to fight can use the LE.
In terms of PKing, I support ALL PKing 100% that is done in-character and with an in-character reason. In other words, RP based PKing. Gimme the rush, gimme the excitement, and go ahead and kill me all you want. Just try to have an in-character reason for doing it.
I know some people want to just PK anyone at any time for no reason, but I dont think its too much to ask that in a game like Neocron, people at least put out half an effort to go along with the RP aspect.
Just like true carebears could go play a single player game if they want a single player experience, PKers can go play a deathmatch type game if all they wanna do is kill anything that moves.
But for everyone in between, I think Neocron works just fine.
And yes, I think the SL system needs some work. ;)
Originally posted by jernau
/edit - @tott3 - I was just pointing out an inconsistency in Clownstopper's argument ;)
Well it was not a bashing post against you :)
I just said the truth bigger clans get bigger and less RP in this game. Which is sad, more neutral GR:s to the people..
Yes im in one of the 3 biggest clans I love PvP :D
I RARELY PK myself, but I..... sorry for the language..... FUCKING LOVE THE RUSH.
There have been many times were I get into a PvP situation where after its done, my heart is pounding like a jack hammer and a rush of adrenaline is coursing through my veins.
I want that feeling.....
I want to be thinking twice about every action I make.
PvP is a HUGE portion of this game, yes, true indeed.
PvM is also a HUGE portion of this game.
But PvP > PvM in this game.
ReaKKtor, PLEASE, read this thread, understand what we are trying to say.
If carebears want to be carebears, theres an LE chip FOR A REASON.
That or bring our asses Neptune!
Another point id like to make... its unfortunate that we have all these large clans..... But we as humans usually want to be a part of a group of people.
I'm glad to see the traffic on this thread -- lot of points here
one thing I'll comment on, I see a side thread basicly arguing that neocron is pvp and not pvm or it's pvm and not pvp, etc. etc.
the way the LE works now provides for a very nice dual environment where people can opt for the type of game experience they want
basily it helps provide more things to people who want different things
I would say in this area, mission acomplished
mission accomplished when neptune is released.
JackScratch
17-12-03, 23:14
Veterro - Get a clue, hell get part of a clue.
Let us, for a moment analyse the etamology of "carebear"
In the 80's a television show about small tedybear like creatures was developed to teach the neanderthal children of the lower class in our society, how to interact with other people in a way that wouldn't make those they came in contact want them dead, in jail, or both. This effort was an abismal failiure as those same children not only failed to respond to the brainwashing, much as they ignored their parents, but came to associate anyone who told them to do/not do anything that didn't come into their tiny tiny little minds. Yes Veterro, I am a carebear, I am telling you, you can't wander the planet behaveing any way you little heart desires, there you go, you got me. However your opinion of me is completely wrong. You see, I am stopped by the very same ethical behavior I espouse. While I have the desire to hunt you down and torture you to death over a period of months, I don't, because morality, ethics, proper upbringing, and .... well the law all say that I shouldn't, and so, as a productive member of society, I don't. Now, Neocron, while a game, is still a comunity. As with any comunity, we establish proper behaviour, based on the common goals and desires of the prodomanant members of said comunity. This is the important part, you see, while I understand that some of you wish toi go out a kill indiscrimanantly, others don't, or don't wish to be killed. The only thing I have suggested, from the begining, is that you offer every individual the oportunity to remove themselves from this sanerio without participateing in any part of it, if they desire, while at the same time, apreciateing, and enjoying the other aspects of this game, which exist, dispite your inability to recognise them.
Originally posted by JackScratch
The only thing I have suggested, from the begining, is that you offer every individual the oportunity to remove themselves from this sanerio without participateing in any part of it, if they desire, while at the same time, apreciateing, and enjoying the other aspects of this game, which exist, dispite your inability to recognise them.
Jack,
So you just want to be able to use an LE? Ok, done.
Now allow everyone else to play "apreciateing, and enjoying the other aspects of this game, which exist, dispite your inablility to recongnise them.", ie let them gank non-le'd newbs if they so desire or PvP in whatever form they want (OP wars, faction killing, etc). That's how they have chosen to play, the option to "opt-out" of PvP IS STILL IN THE GAME.
Sorry, for venting, I just don't want to loose my option to wear my LE by having you tick off every PvP'r out there.
Man I love when people who are nerds in real life talk like they can come beat me up. Look how he tried to choose his words to sound as smart as possible, proably took him 30 minutes to write that. Yes, of course we cant just kill people in real life... thats why I do this in the GAME. thats what GAMES are here for, do things we cant do in real life, and I like killing people. If you just want to chat and collect junk, play the sims.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 00:18
If you are suggesting we meet, which I believe would be a bad idea, I am game. Nerd, now that is funny, I wont bother you with my measurements, or tales of past glory, lets just say Im big, Im dirty, and I'm mean. But don't take my word for it. As for inteligence, well I tell you what, we can play on any field you chose, It's all good, but I tell you what little man, lets not let our mouth write checks our ass can't cash.
Clownst0pper
18-12-03, 01:15
JackScratch - Effectivly what you are saying is.
KK listen to the community, there fore because people hated PKers they made it so they no longer existed, this way PVP is 100% regimented without cause for loosing anything valuable that may have took you some time to get.
If this is so, why didnt KK listen to people like myself and style, and amoungst others who live for the rush of PKing as a role play aspect, not because we enjoy causing players excessive grief, even if you are PKed now, You what, loose a random item and a quick poke. I hardly see your problem.
In the term 'carebear' yes you are one. You feel PVP should be organised and that PKers shouldnt exist, that is effectivly what EQ is and TBH I wish I could PK you. Just to rattle your feathers.
I find your attitude ignorant to those of us who want an aspect of what made this game exciting back in the game.
Fool. :o
Originally posted by Style
the thing is jernau, i dont call jusrt anyone carbear, i call people who are against pkers totally because they want the game the same as CS but with unbalenceness. shit i dont just play games to kill pople virtually who are against the way i play, i would kill PIMP if i played on the same serevr as them, and shit they aint carebears, they just know what RP is. and if u cant play any role you want it may aswell be called zelda, (wikid game btw, im just saying for exampl) its like a single player game, eveyone is da same, pvper or a mob killer, the good(mob killer/duelistfairplaya) the bad(pvper) and... there is no ugly. u know what im saying bruv
and jackscracth u dont seem to relize why we are saying no to quickbelt and safeslot... and u telling us to go play CS, the reaosn we dont play fps and come play MMOs is to escape gaining something other then an ego fo capin someones ass
Yeah, I know what you are saying and I sort of agree. I do think the game needs PvP/PKers/whatever. I just think it needs careful balance and consideration in order to keep as many people paying/playing as possible.
It's very easy to go too far and drive people away as we were told was happening during HATE's heyday. It's also easy to go too far the other way and drive out people who want to play that way. Unfortunately for people who play as you do/did market forces push games to the other extreme in most cases because there is more money at the "carebear" end of the spectrum.
The problem atm is that being LEd is a pain in the ass so people take it out and are forced to play the game according to someone else's rules. I can understand why they then complain if those rules are not to their liking.
IMO I think they could run two rule-sets in parallel - The Neptune one and another that allows the benefits of the LE without losing a brain slot or the ability to clan (no OPs obviously though). Then the two sides can both enjoy the game in their own ways.
Failing that they can split the servers (as they say they will do) - one built for PKers and the others with either the current compromise or something more "carebear" freindly. This won't work as well IMO because a) some of the PKers will stay on the non-Neptune rules servers, b) further splitting an already small community isn't smart and c) I think a lot of people are overestimating the long-term popularity of a Neptune rules server.
@tott3 - Yeah, I was just clarifying. Personally I like the new GR system but I wish they'd brought in more GRs/ASG before as they had promised. 3 or 4 more and the lock-downs wouldn't be a problem IMO.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 01:36
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
JackScratch - Effectivly what you are saying is.
KK listen to the community, there fore because people hated PKers they made it so they no longer existed, this way PVP is 100% regimented without cause for loosing anything valuable that may have took you some time to get.
:o
Point 1 - I don't think KK changed crap because (90% of NC is carebears), I kinda believe that figure is wrong. I was pointing out that the statements suggesting KK was stupid because they did what their clientel wanted, werent't very well thought out.
Point 2 - LEs are not a solution, Not a viable one anyway, you can't be clanned, it takes a slot, and more importantly removes you from completely valid PvP situations.
Point 3 - Who the hell are you, and why the hell should I care what makes you or any other PKer happy. No one is trying to tell you that you can't Kill other runners, you are being asked to respect other runners wishes, and be respectful that there is a human being at the other end. PK all you want, PK PKers, PK oposing clans, PK at OPs, just quit Random, Faction Ganking.
Now here is the sad part, want to know why all these things have been changed in the game, these things that "Violate your god given right to gank anyone anywhere you want"? Ill tell you why, because Random/Faction PKers are only happy if someone else is unhappy. You went out, you didn't bother with any of the things that this game is about, and you killed anyone you felt like. And then, my god it's beutiful, then what did you do. Yopu complain because the comunity wouldn't put up with it and demanded changes from KK, who obliged, because DUH they are a business. All you had to do was play the game, all you had to do was not be pricks, but NOOOOOOOOOO, you just couldn't do that, you had to Gank, cause "it's a rush". Well you have no one but your selves to blame. It's not the Carebear's fault, if you had just left them alone, you could be PKing your happy little ass'es off. But you just couldn't resist killing every runner you thought might not want to be killed. We'll here we are, right back at the start, you still do it, you still kill those who don't want a part of that bullshit, and what do you geniuses think will be the end result of that, huh? Think KK will screw the game up some more. Why don't you morons wise up, before YOU ruin this game.
u can get around jacking people in real life vet, but dont go down to well wiv da ladiez if u get what im sayin ;) hahaa and things like dis anyway belong in video games... as running with siccors say
Originally posted by JackScratch
Point 2 - LEs are not a solution, Not a viable one anyway, you can't be clanned, it takes a slot, and more importantly removes you from completely valid PvP situations.
I wouldnt exactly agree with that.
If you want to hunt in peace, there is no problem using a LE. Sure you lose a slot in your head.. but you dont need that uber set up for PvM. It may take you slightly longer to kill each mob, but you will save on having to collect your belt each time you die or each time you are killed by another player.
I'm levelling a spy on Pluto quite happily with an LE in - purely because I cant be bothered to go hunting my belt down everytime I drop something I didnt want to. The progress does not seem that slow at all. I barely notice the fact I have an LE in, and obviously I'm saving 10minutes for every time I dont get PKd.
You can PvP inside neofrag with an LE. Sure you cant PvP everywhere, but at least there is somewhere for LE people to PvP.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 02:03
Good response Numb, you actualy look like you put some thought into it. However you have only partialy adressed 1 of my 3 points. Sorry, not nearly enough to make what I am preaching against sound like a great idea. It's right there, and I don't expect what I have writen to change much in the minds of those I am against, what I want is to get the thoughts and ideas out there. I want PKers to think about the ramifacations of their actions. If some of them change because they had never thought of it this way, then it is worth it. Also, if people start fighting against them, it will be worth it. I want to, once again, point out, I am not asking, or suggesting that the game be change. I want the people to change the comunity from the inside. That, is the whole point of this damn game.
Originally posted by jernau
The problem atm is that being LEd is a pain in the ass so people take it out and are forced to play the game according to someone else's rules. I can understand why they then complain if those rules are not to their liking.
@tott3 - Yeah, I was just clarifying. Personally I like the new GR system but I wish they'd brought in more GRs/ASG before as they had promised. 3 or 4 more and the lock-downs wouldn't be a problem IMO.
Well the LE solution is kinda simple... just make a 5th slot to the brain CPU:s and make the 5th slot LE ONLY!!!!!!! then you can live happy and play around and maybe you could start a clan that aint PvP friendly like a trader union........
And my little semi thread in the thread..
@jernau - yea I think so to I totaly agree with you there, 3 - 4 more would do just fine then you can GR to any place on the map which you could pre patch.
Originally posted by Archeus
.. Btw the only real roleplaying mindless killer I have met in this game is SHINJIN. Actually getting attacked by him was fun.
hehe yeah I do actually miss him only for the reason that of the 4 times we met he died 3 times :)
4th time i was with a friend and he just ran off :)
and he was more of an oppotunitist than a true random killer imo, but i just found his way of typing hilarious :)
i really do think someone needs to start a petition for neptune.
I want PKers to think about the ramifacations of their actions
Dude, I've been trying to point out that most people who seem to be viewed as 'PKers' don't care. Frankly, I don't in most regards. If a person is idling in Pepper Park and is hostile to me... Sucks, you shouldn't be a friggin' moron and idle in Pepper Park.
There's nothing wrong with that - And if there is, please point out where it's stated that one cannot play the game as such.
Anyway, if those "PK's" can support themselves, they don't have anything that can truly stop them nowadays.
Note that this is why I push for the good and evil strife to return.
:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
18-12-03, 06:22
oh nevermind
JackScratch
18-12-03, 07:25
Originally posted by Marx
Dude, I've been trying to point out that most people who seem to be viewed as 'PKers' don't care. Frankly, I don't in most regards. If a person is idling in Pepper Park and is hostile to me... Sucks, you shouldn't be a friggin' moron and idle in Pepper Park.
There's nothing wrong with that - And if there is, please point out where it's stated that one cannot play the game as such.
Anyway, if those "PK's" can support themselves, they don't have anything that can truly stop them nowadays.
Note that this is why I push for the good and evil strife to return.
:rolleyes:
Wow, you completely misused that quote, you took it out of context, hell you took it out of the paragraph. That was what I said, but it is irelevant and stupid without the rest of the statement. Wishing Random/Faction PKers to think about what they have done, so to speak, is only part of what I am after. Go back and read what I said again, and if it doesn't change then don't worry about it, I get that you don't get it.
Wow, you completely misused that quote, you took it out of context
Um not really, seeing as every other time you get worked up about player killers you babble about morality, 'rightness', etc.
I simply pointed out a fact:
Those that make up the more notable 'PKAR' bunch don't really care, and will play the game as they please whether or not you bitch.
So instead of being counterproductive to your 'cause', how about you do something about it?
Go back and read what I said again, and if it doesn't change then don't worry about it, I get that you don't get it
Frankly, I don't bother reading a majority of what you write, because you don't bother comprehending what anyone else is putting forth.
"I'M RIGHT, I'M RIGHT!! I'M RIGHT - YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG"
:rolleyes:
JackScratch
18-12-03, 08:18
Like I said, I get that you don't get it. Along side that sentament, your arguements are like a listing of logical flaws by type. Tell you what, if you can't be bothered to read all of my posts, why don't you stop reading them all together? My attempts to make PKers think about their actions, are for the ones who will, and there are a few, the rest can rot in hell. As for posting here Vs makeing a difference in game, what makes you think I can't do both? Your grasping at straws, and it's kinda sad. Im not argueing with you, for your benifit, Im argueing with you for everyone elses benifit. It's like a political debate. I don't have to change you, to win.
JackScratch, I am one of the most hated people in game and on the boards for the way I act. I choose to pk and fight others on the boards, and Im not popular for it, I dont mind. I have fun with it actually. Point is, nearly everyone on this thread is telling you you are wrong, and a lot less polite things then just that. If people are flaming you and not me, you know your really doing something very wrong in the eyes of the community. so please, shut up, and take it over to the sims, ok?
BTW, the only thing im thinking about is how much fun pking is. just now my freind and I went out in a tank and guned tons of people down, and then went to level in swamp cave and killed people tyhere cause We dont wanna share the mobs/xp. It was fun for me, and it was fun for him. and the games suppost to be fun.
why don't you stop reading them all together
Because, arguing with you is priceless.
Like I said, I get that you don't get it
Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully comprehend what you say; It's just so blatantly entertaining that I continue to come back and beat your points with a large sized halibut.
your arguements are like a listing of logical flaws by type
:confused:
Damn, I thought them to be concise and to the point. =/. Guess I'll just have to work on that, because you know, you're always right
My attempt to make PKers think about their actions, is for the ones who will, and there are a few, the rest can rot in hell
Lets see, most of those truly evil dudes you like to proclaim all PKers as were banned from these forums earlier on and haven't returned since they've received their 'forum repreives'. Either that or they've returned and were banned again...
The more well known "PK's" who do show up periodically generally avoid these threads (as is made obvious by the general lack of responses from said parties); and those that do post are obviously against the person who's 'militantly carebear' (Oh goody, I love oxymorons).
I sincerely doubt someone, after reading your posts, will rethink their entire lives as lived through Neocron. Frankly, if they do - they have some issues.
is for the ones who will
There are some "PK's" who do other things aside from "PKing"... Things that are good for the community as a whole, yet they're all bunched in that same 'Evil basket' you have hanging at your side due to your rampant generalizations.
With Leo Frankowski and Marx, I've personally equipped many lowbies of late (the term 'lowbie' is used because most were rerolls =P) - I even helped purge the P1 sewers/aggies of a "PKAR MANZ" or two. But of course, since I enjoy a good fight periodically, and I kill those who my faction has ordered me to kill - I am damned to hell. Oh why oh why couldn't I live a pure tradeskill life? Why oh why couldn't I have just tempted fate with PvM?
what makes you think I can't do both
The simple fact is, you're not doing both. Don't lie.
Your grasping at straws
Naw, when I make cute lil' posts intended to anger instead of enlighten... That's when I'm grasping at straws.
o_O
Im not argueing with you, for your benifit, Im argueing with you for everyone elses benifit
Great!
It's like a political debate. I don't have to change you, to win.
And what pray tell, is it you're trying to win? The hearts and minds of the 'abused'?
Try actually helping people in game instead of trying to play 'Che', because methinks people would appreciate that more than your most heartfelt sympathies as you fight for a "better tomorrow".
Originally posted by Style
i really do think someone needs to start a petition for neptune.
The thing is, I get the impression neptune would bring in a lot of players that have already left neocron. They wouldnt play a part in a petition, so the figures wouldnt be that accurate.
I am hoping neptune will be launched at the same time as NC:BDoY.
I see a lot of people commenting about neptune
I've got this sneaky feeling that neptune will be a huge bust, pretty much not fun, and will have a tiny tiny population. people will visit but I doubt they would stay.
Originally posted by VetteroX
If you just want to chat and collect junk, play the sims. This game has tons of stuff to collect (I am sure you do your PKing with rares, no?)...
So someone tell me-
How is Vett telling someone to go play the sims different from someone telling Vet to go play Quake 3?
Honest question.
Clownst0pper
18-12-03, 14:59
No one is trying to tell you that you can't Kill other runners, you are being asked to respect other runners wishes
thats the end to PKers then as no one likes to be PKed.
Jesus your such a knob your asking for Pkers to exist but respect other runners wishes?
How can a Pker who roleplays causing trouble be nice?
I pity the fool! :mad:
Originally posted by Strych9
This game has tons of stuff to collect (I am sure you do your PKing with rares, no?)...
So someone tell me-
How is Vett telling someone to go play the sims different from someone telling Vet to go play Quake 3?
Honest question.
Its not different at all, Its the same concept.
Originally posted by VetteroX
BTW, the only thing im thinking about is how much fun pking is. just now my freind and I went out in a tank and guned tons of people down, and then went to level in swamp cave and killed people tyhere cause We dont wanna share the mobs/xp. It was fun for me, and it was fun for him. and the games suppost to be fun.
:lol: that made my soda come out through my nose.
Vettorox, you need to cultivate your crops a bit more. Kill too much and people will give up in disgust (and you will have nothing left to play with), kill too little and people will forget you. You need to add a bit of flair to your killing. Take SHINJIN/Megaman as examples. Both names grew beyond the players that played them (although a lot of people wouldn't be able to point out who they are now).
You should try too.. for example go buy loads of the Scorpion meals (they look cool when thrown on the ground) and leave one beside the dead body as a calling card.
Okay, JackScratch- sorry man, I think you are out of line to say that PKers need to "respect the wishes of other runners."
Why?
Because when you say that you are talking about OOC wishes, not IC wishes. And PKers only have ONE way to know the OOC wishes of another runner- the LE chip. That is your IC way to let people know your OOC wishes not to engage in PvP.
If you CHOOSE not to use the LE, then I think you are being entirely unrealistic to ask a player to know the wishes of another player. (Note: if player A keeps asking player B to be left alone, and player B refuses, then that would constitute a violation of the TOS and player B could/would be dealt with. So I am assuming we are NOT talking about that type of scenario).
It seems that players like Vett are trying to have their cake and eat it at the same time. OF COURSE Neocron is all about strife. Everything in the game, even all of the activities the non-PvPers do, is in support of combat.
However, you are wrong if you describe Neocron as just a PvP game, for it is not.
What distinguishes Neocron from Quake 3? Well, there are a lot of differences, but the main one is the concept of roles. In Neocron, you are expected to be a role player.
You choosing to ignore that part of the game is worse, in my opinion, than someone RPing but wanting to ignore the combat part of the game.
If anyone wants to JUST collect stuff, there are great single player games out there. If anyone JUST wants to kill people, there are tons of deathmatch games out there.
But if the collector and the killer are willing to accept the principles of RP, especially as they are laid out in Neocron, then I think Neocron is a good game for them to play.
Also, the fun a PKer has means jack shit to me. Why? Because I know the fun that I have means jack shit to them. I would suggest that PKers not try to bring "fun" into this discussion as some sort of criteria, cause the TOS will bite them in the ass if they try that.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 18:47
God Damnit People,don't any of you know how to fucking read? My posting is in no way, about PvP. It is not about the many valid PvP oportunities which everyone should have the right to take part in. The LE is bullshit. It doesn't near cover the bases. If you tell me about the fucking LE again, just don't bother posting. I know about the fucking LE, it is bullshit. And if you think I need to know about the fucking LE, then just let me say again, it is bullshit.
Clown - How is what you last wrote an apropriot reply to anything I have posted? If you go back and read through this post (which I have no doubt you wont so don't answer) then you will see outlined by my assorted posts the apropriot behaviour that you should have been taught from birth. Im sorry you don't understand what I'm talking about, but run along , the adults are talking.
Vet - You are who I am talking about, not to.
I love the way you each DESTROY my points, of course you do it by replying to things I never said, or non contextual portions of things I did say.
can you feel the love coming from this thread:p :angel:
/me plots to make killer tank that hangs around point red ^_^
I hope you werent responding to ME with that crap you just emitted. I was responding specifically to what you said.
Earlier you said
No one is trying to tell you that you can't Kill other runners, you are being asked to respect other runners wishesto which I replied that we are talking about one of two scenarios:
Scenario 1: You are being attacked, and you ask the runner to stop.
Scenario 2: You get attacked, but you dont ask the runner to stop.
In scenario 1, if they ignore your request, then that would be viewed as a violation of the TOS and it wouldnt be too hard for you to get that runner disciplined (temp ban, perm ban, whatever). So I am assuming we arent talking about scenario 1.
In scenario 2, then how the hell do you expect another runner to "respect your wishes" if they have no way of knowing your wishes? The only way to let them know of your wishes is to use your LE really.
So which scenario are you talking about?
And you get a gold star for your effective use of the word "bullshit." You seem so manly when you get angry like that. ;)
JackScratch
18-12-03, 19:11
Originally posted by Strych9
:
Scenario 1: You are being attacked, and you ask the runner to stop.
I see, and exactly how long do you think it takes a capped runner to gank an 0/2 noob from behind? Less time than it takes to say don't kill me? Even with the Sms system? I think that might be the case. OK, then how bout we assume that ganking from behind, out of no where is wrong, hmmm, that seems to solve that problem. Works out too, since that is't very sporting to start with. You know, all of this has been posted in this thread. Hey, here is a thought, stop ganking in hunting grounds. Course that only solves part of the problem, but Im willing to start small. You know, they very thought of asking someone not to do, what they should know better than to do, is absurd from the start.
Don't attack runners you have had no previous involvement with. (Hacking their OP or them hacking yours counts as previous involvement as does an agreement to fight) Don't attack runners of lower rank than you ( not so much rank as effect power base). Don't attack runners in hunting grounds (well fucking DUH. You would think that one was obvious, but they don't seem to get it.) Try playing the damn game, instead of playing CS on a NC server.
you cant compare CS to NC cos NC you level up a char collect items to make you better etc CS is just go out and kill.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 19:16
Originally posted by ezza
you cant compare CS to NC cos NC you level up a char collect items to make you better etc CS is just go out and kill.
Yeah, uh, see, well, uh, that was my point. Sorry, you miss that?
I attack red runners when I am in the mood to do so.
I dont attack those that stand NO chance against me i.e. too low of a level, hacking, attacking mobs.... etc... You know, the stuff thats considered lame.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 19:36
Zanathos, you would ber so surprised. There are a lot of realy lame runners out there. They are predominantly who I am talking to. You should realy consider not attacking people out of no where, but the people you call "lame" are predominantly who I am talking to.
I do realize that there are alot of them yes :)
Originally posted by JackScratch
[B]There are a lot of realy lame runners out there. They are predominantly who I am talking to. You should realy consider not attacking people out of no where./B]
Why factions are at war so.
Red=Dead
JackScratch
18-12-03, 20:01
The faction conflict aspect of this game is poorly concieved, poorly implimented, and most importantly, unnecessary. What do you acomplish for your faction by ganking faction enemies? Nothing. Any answer you could give would be a stretch at best. Runner actions, commited in the name of faction hostilities have no over all effect on the game or the factions. No matter how many faction oponents you gank it has no effect on the game or either faction involved. The only thing you acomplish by faction ganking is the inconvenience of your victims. This makes you pretty much a random PKer.
Originally posted by JackScratch
The only thing you acomplish by faction ganking is the inconvenience of your victims. This makes you pretty much a random PKer.
Thats good enough for me.
It is factions at war with other factions and in war people die dont see how it is poorly concived.
What do you acomplish for your faction by ganking faction enemies? Nothing
Negetive.
1.) You cleanse the particular zone of hostile interests.
2.) You ensure victory for your faction.
3.) You prevent hostile faction members from working to become an immediate future threat.
Any answer you could give would be a stretch at best
Just because you're not rewarded for your kills ala DAoC, doesn't mean that its not pointless - especially since this game revolves more around player based politics.
The only thing you acomplish by faction ganking is the inconvenience of your victims
The inconvenience of your faction based victims leads to the superiority of your faction.
If the person doesn't want to take part in conflict, the LE is a viable option - Or they can easily use the chat bar and ingame forum system to become a neutral. Oh, they can also use common sense too, you know, avoid situations where they'd get killed in an obvious manner.
This makes you pretty much a random PKer
No, a random PKer kills anyone, regardless of faction tags. A person who uses factional conflict as their basis for PvP is anything but a random PKer.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 20:20
It is poorly concieved because it puts developer control on what is primaraly a runner created environment. All it does is create an atmosphere of confusion. You are being told what to do and who to like by someone/something that has almost no real presence in the game. There is no system of reward or punishment through the Faction system, no incentive, it is just a grey blanket order that makes no sence. Yesterday my wife compared it to raceism, and it is almost that bad. Both RL and this game are far far far more complicated than the faction system allows for. As such it does nothing but promote an air of confusion. I have to say, I am not putting down the dev team, much of what this game represents is unprecedented. There is no way they could have known what it was capeable of or where it could go, and to be completely fair, I see the need to put something in to sow the seeds of conflict that would make this game move. However player politics has gone, and will go, so far beyond the scope of the Faction System, as to make it truely absurd. There are wars, people do die, and it hasn't got a damn thing to do with the factions. Get with the game, the world is changeing.
Originally posted by Strych9
Scenario 1: You are being attacked, and you ask the runner to stop.
....
In scenario 1, if they ignore your request, then that would be viewed as a violation of the TOS and it wouldnt be too hard for you to get that runner disciplined (temp ban, perm ban, whatever). So I am assuming we arent talking about scenario 1.
No you wouldn't be in violation. If you followed the same runner and did it over and over you might get a smack or warned by a GM, but for simply killing someone without an LE it is very doubtful.
Originally posted by JackScratch
It is poorly concieved because it puts developer control on what is primaraly a runner created environment. All it does is create an atmosphere of confusion. You are being told what to do and who to like by someone/something that has almost no real presence in the game.
You get to choose your faction so you are not told who to fight.
Plus marx stated exacltyt what attacking other factions does.
Clownst0pper
18-12-03, 20:50
Jack ive read every single one of your posts over and over.
and all I can conclude is...
PKers shouldnt exist as it disrupts players gamming, and because of the faction aspect, there is little hope that if PKers did exist, you could never be Pked?
:confused:
Your posts bewilder me and Im studying Journalism and Writing at University. :confused:
Pkers should exist and I cant w8 for the day neptune arrives
Devils Grace
18-12-03, 20:53
Originally posted by JackScratch
Zanathos, you would ber so surprised. There are a lot of realy lame runners out there. They are predominantly who I am talking to. You should realy consider not attacking people out of no where, but the people you call "lame" are predominantly who I am talking to.
MEEEEEEE
IM ONE
Ill gank ur n00bs, shot in the back, kill while hacking, kill while u are in the midle of 2 grims and 1 persy.
u r the enemy therefore ru goin down.
or i want to piss u off, and make u gen rep and get pokes, or i want u out of my zone (aka op's owned by the clan)
simple, roleplaying.
u think im a asshole, fine, i think ur a prick, a dead one....
:lol:
JackScratch
18-12-03, 20:58
Then you haven't been paying attention to what you are reading, clawn. In fact I will go as far as to say you might rethink your chosen career. First of all, remove PKer, and replace with Random/faction PKer. Second, the response you mention is weak and doesn't nearly address the situation as presented. I understand what factions are supposed to mean and do. Im saying the game and the world within it have grown far beyond all that, and what it has grown into is only complicated, muddied if you will, by the faction situation. One example is you statement about choseing factions, OK did you even think about that before you wrote it? I chose a name and a blurb, without any way to know who was in that faction or what they stood for. As did most of the other runners. There is no option to not chose a faction, or any way to have a factionless clan, lest I imagine most people would chose that.
Devils Grace - You need to go back quite a few posts and read what I wrote about PKers being responsable for all the changes in game mechanics that "Ruin the game". You are your own worst enemy, and I don't ever want to hear "Teh SL rule are teh sux0r" out of you. They are your fault, you are responsable for them, past, present, and future.
Originally posted by Archeus
No you wouldn't be in violation. If you followed the same runner and did it over and over you might get a smack or warned by a GM, but for simply killing someone without an LE it is very doubtful. I was talking about doing it over and over. If you did it, and then they asked you to leave them alone, and you left them alone, of course its not a problem. And of course killing someone isnt a problem. I was talking about repeated killing against their explicitly stated wishes.
On the whole factional killing thing- I see "factional defender" or "factional vigilante" as a valid role in this game. Its clear, if you play the game, that factional enemies are enemies, and the rules allow you to kill them without SL loss.
So with the exception of pure newb kills, I dont have an issue with people killing factional enemies. I would PREFER the PKers that do that to at least acknowledge that its a role and act like its a role, instead of uttering the mantra "red=dead", and I of course have no sympathy for anyone that complains about the penalties for killing allied runners.
Now, let me add that people you kill should know WHY they were killed. That would add to the legitimacy of the kill in terms of RP.
If you have a problem with the faction/SL system, thats not the same as having a problem with people that play by the rules of the system.
I have before clearly stated what I think makes up a legitimate role, and factional killer is a legit role.
JackScratch, maybe you should explain how people should kill in this games in terms of RP, if killing factional enemies isnt an option?
JackScratch
18-12-03, 21:18
Originally posted by Strych9
JackScratch, maybe you should explain how people should kill in this games in terms of RP, if killing factional enemies isnt an option?
OK, lets see, I thought I had done this about a billion times, but I suspect this wont be the last. I consider myself most gratios for repeating this over and over, but if that is what it takes, then so be it.
Deuling - agreed comabt between 2 or more runners, just for the fun, honor, braging rights of it.(eg - I have noted that you/your group is exceptional in combat and would like to pit the skills of myself/my group against you.
War - A declaration of intent to attack a runner/runners where ever, when ever (keep it out of hunting grounds) because of a stated disagreement and oportunity for peaceable resolution if so desired. (eg - I disagree with your actions/thoughts/words/beliefs amend this or my people and I will gun you down where ever we find you.)(factions don't work, here, you have to chose a faction, there is no viable way around it.
OPs - clan A has an OP, clan B wants the OP, clan B attemps to take the OP, clanb A comes to defend the OP, a wonderful time is had by all.
Random PK hunting - As Random/Faction PKers have declared their desire to enter PvP by their actions, and unwillingness to behave like human beings, enact your desire to PvP by obligeing them, hunt them everywhere, kill them where you find them, grief them out of the game. Fear not, these will always be available.
Create your own - it's an RPG for christ sake, be creative, just so long as you aren't subjecting someone else to your desire to gank them. Make fight clubs (the first rule of fight club is, there is no fight club), deuling societies, come up with your own special ways to PK without being a dick. You can do it, I have faith in you.
noob killing is bad, bad, bad. Maybe in self defense or something, but come on.
keep PK out of the hunting grounds
Devils Grace
18-12-03, 21:18
jack i think the kind of game u looking for is SWG when u gota have permission to kill someone.... for some i think its ok, everyone has is tastes.
now in neocron, why in the hell shouldnt i kill red ppl
the 1st thing i learn in this game and one of the 1st questions i asked was " why are some ppl red to me"
and like 2 days after was " who is Megaman that prick just killed me in TH":lol:
i dont see nottin diferent like in rl
someone said name of big mass murderes, and i say he forgot one " George W. Bush"
u did u vote to in ur presidentials.
stfu what has ruin this game are ppl that want everyting doin there way, so the game will be easier to them (aka cry babies)
i dont mind SL system, its easy to run from it (without exploiting)
just ion case ur goin to say that.
what i can say and i agree with stykles on that, theres no reward pk besides self satisfaction....
now some changes could be made to make this game funnier and havning pkers in it.
like bounty hunterz, put ur head on a prize money or item, jail, etc... i bet every n00b or non pvp, would have fun making pkers life dificult......
but no u prefer a style that hanging around safe zones, and no pvp at all fun for ya....
WELL NOT TO ME.........(im a selfish bastard)
but im not ruining urs why should u ruining mine
Devils Grace
18-12-03, 21:21
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, lets see, I thought I had done this about a billion times, but I suspect this wont be the last. I consider myself most gratios for repeating this over and over, but if that is what it takes, then so be it.
Deuling - agreed comabt between 2 or more runners, just for the fun, honor, braging rights of it.(eg - I have noted that you/your group is exceptional in combat and would like to pit the skills of myself/my group against you.
War - A declaration of intent to attack a runner/runners where ever, when ever (keep it out of hunting grounds) because of a stated disagreement and oportunity for peaceable resolution if so desired. (eg - I disagree with your actions/thoughts/words/beliefs amend this or my people and I will gun you down where ever we find you.)(factions don't work, here, you have to chose a faction, there is no viable way around it.
OPs - clan A has an OP, clan B wants the OP, clan B attemps to take the OP, clanb A comes to defend the OP, a wonderful time is had by all.
Random PK hunting - As Random/Faction PKers have declared their desire to enter PvP by their actions, and unwillingness to behave like human beings, enact your desire to PvP by obligeing them, hunt them everywhere, kill them where you find them, grief them out of the game. Fear not, these will always be available.
Create your own - it's an RPG for christ sake, be creative, just so long as you aren't subjecting someone else to your desire to gank them. Make fight clubs (the first rule of fight club is, there is no fight club), deuling societies, come up with your own special ways to PK without being a dick. You can do it, I have faith in you.
noob killing is bad, bad, bad. Maybe in self defense or something, but come on.
keep PK out of the hunting grounds
sorry for post again but u type fast
they got a name for that already
SWG
i can sell u my acount if u want
JackScratch
18-12-03, 21:33
OK, DG, I don't know how old you are, and I don't want to know, but for one reason or another, you clearly arent getting it. No, that is not SWG, it isn't even close to SWG. The fact that you would recomend SWG is proof positive that you aren't reading all the posts in this thread. SWG is not an FPS, SWG does not have the player based economy, and SWG prevents the freedom to manipulate the thoughts and beliefs of a society by word and deed. You see, Im NOT AGAINST PvP, I have said this over and over, stated it in more ways than In care to think about and it is constantly ignored. I DO NOY WANT THE GANE MECHANICS CHANGED can't seem to get this through to all of you either. What I do want is sportsman like conduct and behaviour becomeing of adults. Since this is an adult game, that shouldn't be to much to ask.
What your saying jasck, is theres different kinds of pvp... dueling and op wars, which is ok, pking faction hotiles in non hunting areas and of the same level, sorta ok, and pking low level hostiles and allies = you are an asshole in real life? Im really tired of this carebear mentality that if you like pking everything that moves your an asshole. Im pretty sure that almost everyone on the boards would get along with me in real life if we met.... just like left wing people I knew at college, (im right wing) we would have to put that aside.. then we got along fine. Neocron aside, im sure id get along with 90% of people on these boards. In real life Im pretty polite and nice, and easy to get along with. But this is a GAME. and these are FORUMS. In game you can abandon real life rules and do whatever you want. and I like to kill other players... Its just fun for me. If I cant find a hostile (because everyones pp or tangent) I start pking allies.... I must have blood.
I think real assholes in games are team killers in team games like BF1942 or counter strike, these people are flat out trying to ruin other peoples times and get off on it. But when I play NC and kill a protopham spy hunting warbots as black dragon, I just A: like killing people B: maybe saw him using a redeemer and a rog, hoping one drops C: like being the bad guy, remeber, theres a diff between psycho vllian who kills people and asshole who joins team games and starts tking.
The diff between telling carebears to play the sims and me to play quake 3 is simple. Neocron is made to be a pvp mmorpg. And im trying to pvp. Sims is made to be a social interaction and collecting junk mmorpg. Thats what carebears wanna do, so they should go there. If this was Ever Quest, your point would be valid, but NC is pvp based.
Originally posted by VetteroX
What your saying jasck, is theres different kinds of pvp... dueling and op wars, which is ok, pking faction hotiles in non hunting areas and of the same level, sorta ok, and pking low level hostiles and allies = you are an asshole in real life? Im really tired of this carebear mentality that if you like pking everything that moves your an asshole. Im pretty sure that almost everyone on the boards would get along with me in real life if we met.... just like left wing people I knew at college, (im right wing) we would have to put that aside.. then we got along fine. Neocron aside, im sure id get along with 90% of people on these boards. In real life Im pretty polite and nice, and easy to get along with. But this is a GAME. and these are FORUMS. In game you can abandon real life rules and do whatever you want. and I like to kill other players... Its just fun for me. If I cant find a hostile (because everyones pp or tangent) I start pking allies.... I must have blood.
I think real assholes in games are team killers in team games like BF1942 or counter strike, these people are flat out trying to ruin other peoples times and get off on it. But when I play NC and kill a protopham spy hunting warbots as black dragon, I just A: like killing people B: maybe saw him using a redeemer and a rog, hoping one drops C: like being the bad guy, remeber, theres a diff between psycho vllian who kills people and asshole who joins team games and starts tking.
The diff between telling carebears to play the sims and me to play quake 3 is simple. Neocron is made to be a pvp mmorpg. And im trying to pvp. Sims is made to be a social interaction and collecting junk mmorpg. Thats what carebears wanna do, so they should go there. If this was Ever Quest, your point would be valid, but NC is pvp based.
*claps*
But seriously, well said.
Devils Grace
18-12-03, 21:40
Jack,
u dont have that in the real world, with all is faults and hmm dunno how to say it in english.
why should u have that in a game that in a roleplaying manner has got a nuclear war, after that a tribes war, and now has numeros factions all at war to gain power, i dont get it
my age? i can tell u my age, im 27 and i was recently a father.
u ? im guessing u just got out of school and still hopes that world will become a nice place to live where all ppl get along and live happy forever (romantic ppl ) where there is no hate, cultural, sexual, religius....
dont get me wrong i wish things were like that to.... but unfortunnaly they arent.
now this is a game, where u have pvp, so roleplaying manner u got enemys, and the enemies are ment to be killed.
simple...
Jack, I am honestly stunned that you do not recognize factional conflict as valid PvP. So basically if you are CA and want to attack a TG runner for opposing everything you stand for, you must ask them for a duel, engage them in an op war, or hope they are a random PKer and you are hunting them down?
How does "You are my factional enemy, so I am going to kill you" not fall under your "make up your own" category?
Your right- no need to ever post that list again.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Im really tired of this carebear mentality that if you like pking everything that moves your an asshole.For me, blatantly ignoring the RP aspect of a RP game makes one an asshole.
C: like being the bad guy, remeber, theres a diff between psycho vllian who kills people and asshole who joins team games and starts tking.Just a reminder, the factional alliances in Neocron are basically "teams"... and anyone that randomly kills players that are factional allies is ignoring the RP aspect of the game and is basically what you describe. I am not saying YOU do that.. just saying.
The diff between telling carebears to play the sims and me to play quake 3 is simple. Neocron is made to be a pvp mmorpg. And im trying to pvp.Notice how you dont say you are trying to RP... you acknowledge the PvP part, but you seldom give any lip service to the mmoRPg part.
Sims is made to be a social interaction and collecting junk mmorpg. Thats what carebears wanna do, so they should go there. If this was Ever Quest, your point would be valid, but NC is pvp based. That statement has lost all meaning... pvp based. If I build you a 4 slotted Cursed Soul, am I a carebear?
The opposite of PvP is PvM, not carebear. A PvP game is any game where you compete against other players. A PvM game is when you compete against AI/the computer.
Now perhaps when you say PvP you mean combat PvP... and thats fine. But if so, then my question still stands... should I go play The Sims because I want to build the weapons of war instead of using them?
You say you wanna PvP... well Quake 3 is PURE PvP. The difference between Neocron and Quake 3 is the RPG part. If you want PvP go Quake 3. If you want PvP *and* RP then play Neocron.
As long as the RP isnt ignored, I have no problem with ANY type of PvP. Saying "I just wanna kill everyone I see" is ignoring the RP part of this game.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 21:54
A - I said I didn't want to know.
B - I remember 27, I remember 30, sorry you lost your ideals, I haven't
C - It requires no wisdom, no inteligence, not even conciousness, to become a father. This is no reflection on you or your parenting skills, merely a reflection of your use of that fact as proof of your arguement
D - I am fighting this battle IRL everyday. I try to change the world. I start with changeing it by example. The minute you stoped fighting you lost the battle. It isn't futility if it is a worthy cause.
E - PvP is still not, hasn't been, never was, the subject. Your inability to comprehend this speaks poorly of you.
this is going no where doesnt matter which person is trying to point out why they PK or what not Jack aint gonna listen so you guys might as well not bother and just get back to having fun and fun and pking the shit out of everything that moves
With regard to the it's bad to kill your faction enemies without asking mindset. I'm a tsunami runner. I'm very loyal to tsunami. There is a bitter conflict between us and black dragon:
From the manual
Madame Veronique hates drugs, withdrawal medication and everything that has anything thing to do with pharmaceuticals. It's obvious why the Black Dragon and ProtoPharm are at the top of the list in her black book. Tsunami accepts missions from BioTech Industries that are directed against the Clan. There are often bloody clashes between the two factions and an end to the war is not in sight.
If I see a Black Dragon, is it best for me to wait to see whether he wants to talk about our problems or just open fire on me? Tsunami do not want drugs on the streets, so they _will_ kill rival gang members. Just as Black Dragon _will_ kill tsunami as they know in advance that they are a threat.
In my opinion, we are gangs.. you cant expect much more.
I think even that sort of conflict happens today.
JackScratch
18-12-03, 22:46
ezza - smartest thing I have heard anyone say yet. Now what I'm getting out of all this, is publicity, what are/can PKers do that they are not already doing? I make them angry, so what? However, there are many people out there who are unhappy, but see no solution but to leave the game. The longer this thread goes on, the more attention it will atract, the more attention it attracts the more people see that there are alternatives, and what those alternatives are. So please, spout away, I have all the time in the world and not a damn thing to lose.
Numb - sorry you feel that way, and as long as you show any respect for your fellow runner at all, Im just not that concerned about you. I have however given plenty of explanation as to why I don't believe Faction Killing is apropriot. Do what you want, but stand in the way of progress and you will tend to get run over.
those alternatives can be attained by playing sims online or SWG
Neocron is just about fine the way it is
JackScratch
18-12-03, 23:03
No, they can't and yes it is. It's the people and the society within I seek to change, and it will happe, with or without me.
Originally posted by JackScratch
No, they can't and yes it is. It's the people and the society within I seek to change, and it will happe, with or without me.
The allowable behaviors of societies change all the time, sometimes for better, whilst other times for the worse.
Good luck with your "ANTI-'EVIL*' DUDE REVOLUTION *ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LIVE A GOOD MORAL NEOCRON VIRTUAL LIFE", but don't be suprised if it fails.
:confused:
JackScratch
18-12-03, 23:21
Fails, I have already succeded. There has been a huge change in the PK environment on Pluto since retail. Not only is there much less Random/Faction PK, but people treat PKer differently, they aren't feared or respected. They are treated like special needs children. Saturn, certainly has a long way to go, but the reign of the PKer days are numbered, the rest of us can look forward to happy days, enjoying honorable combat, testing our skills against worthy oponents, rather than preying on noobs, and ganking people from behind.
There has been a huge change in the PK environment on Pluto since retail
Let's lose the Ego, it's not thanks to you. More notable militant anti-PKers stepped up in the past.
but people treat PKer differently, they aren't feared or respected
Feared, Yes. Respected Yes. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is now there's a general lack of greifing and random PKing.
but the reign of the PKer days are numbered
We're all entitled to our own opinion.
:lol:
the rest of us can look forward to happy days, enjoying honorable combat, testing our skills against worthy oponents, rather than preying on noobs, and ganking people from behind.
Whooot, another random generalization. Way to go!
JackScratch
18-12-03, 23:42
Ego! Ego? What ego, I don't care why it happened, or who did the work. I've put in my work as have many others. Wars are fought by Generals and Privates. No contribution to this cause is too great or too small. Now youre just shooting in the dark. If there are that many people looking to change the field, that many people working towards a different comunity, then it kinda validates all my work, doesn't it. Sorta makes it hard to convince everyone Im just some lone nut job, isn't it. Keep shooting, youll get your foot eventualy.
I've put in my work
Not really, all you do is argue with 'PK's.
Wars are fought by Generals and Privates
So there's an army of carebears marching on Neocron as we speak? QUICK ARM THE SADNESS CANNONS AND POUT MINES!
The changes that were made have made things worse for neocron as opposed to better.
Belts - Now you have to have hack or a friend with hack to win the spoils of a conflict. In the end belts are left alone except for groups of people who go around getting belts as they come across them .
Safe Slot - Now weapons cost out the ass because everyone whordes them. Earlier on the market was full of weapons, and a person could get a great PvP CS/PE for 600 - 900k. Now decent weapons cost far more - many many millions. Whilst on servers with dramatic inflation, you cannot buy them, but must trade for them.
Hunting zones - The only thing which made sense, yet still in most cases doesn't work right.
Now youre just shooting in the dark
And the fact that you don't bother responding to the other points in the post point out that you're in the dark.
Sorta makes it hard to convince everyone Im just some lone nut job
... Your posts do a fine job of that by themselves.
;)
Keep shooting, youll get your foot eventualy
:lol:
JackScratch
19-12-03, 02:20
Was the end there supposed to be a compliment, or was that an accident. Did you mean to say that my posts keep me from looking like a lone nutjob, or that they make me look like a lone nutjob?
You put entirely too little value on the writen word. I know the pen is mightier than the sword is cliche' but, it has its merits. 1 person fights alone unless he can convince others to fight along side him. That is what I do, as for my work on Pluto, who the hell are you and where have you been. You are here posting just as fast a =nd as furiously as I am, yet you criticize my choices of methods, like you know something?
As previously stated, if you don't like the anti PvP changes that have been made, then I would do something to keep them from being requested, if I were you. You should be fighting the random/faction crap along side me, if only to prevent those changes from being made. What, you going to shame every carebear in the damn game into not whineing? GFL. It hasn't worked on me, and I am responding, what about all the people who don't read your posts, what about those who read the, just say "he's a dick" then whine anyway.
Only one solution to your "whine" stopo the crap, save what you can, before it is too late.
You should be fighting the random/faction crap along side me
Yes, because it's really utopian after 24 billion people died and those that managed to scrape out an existance had to work themselves up from tribal stature.
Only one solution to your "whine" stopo the crap, save what you can, before it is too late.
Because the sky is falling! IT'S FALLING, WHY WON'T IT STOP?!
WHY WON'T THE SKY STAY UP THERE?!
the type of community your asking for jackskitzo, son is da same community as in Jedi Knight series. Well I'm sorry but the community is total utter shit in that game, geat game. but spoiled by the fact that players as my self who rather play by my own rules get kicked from every, nearly every server. and so many other players. shit. a friend of mine who started playign the game had no clue about this jedi code stuff. he was going on serevrs and getting kicied out within 5 minutes. and he left da game straight away, restricted communitys are not good for gamers a s a whole. so now u come ere start arguments like bush, so if u aint megaman shush! dun
How is this thread still going?o_O
JackScratch
19-12-03, 04:25
Originally posted by jernau
How is this thread still going?o_O
Well, you see, it is a benifit to my cause that it keep going, makes it more interesting, more people look at it. This gets the word out. I would be unable to keep it going on my own, but thankfuly Geniuses like Marx and Style just can't resist getting their oh so clever thoughts in after everything I say, this gives me something to reply to, and so it becomes "THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT END" Personaly I think they should make it a Sticky and be done with.
I am fighting a war of thougts here, the best part is, my oponents do more damage to their own stand, than I could posibly do to the. Realy, would you think it benificial to your cause to say that you and your associates get kicked off every server in a game, so surely you represent the masses? Come on, how smart is that? Realy, go back and read this thread, there is some great stuff in here. I don't realy know who it is they are argueing with, but they haven't quoted me correctly yet. Seems they got it in there head that I am against PvP and just can not get it out.
Oh god I made it worse :(
Having read it all (why did I waste my time on that :confused: ) I'd say it's hard to say which extremist position is worse.
Even though I probably drift very slighty to the carebear side of centre (because personally I've seen more people leave due to Pkers than anything else) I can't say that Style is "wrong" as such. Marx makes some valid points if you read the meaning, not the words. Likewise, if you lost the firebrand preacher mentality people might take you more seriously.
I ought to agree more with you than others in theory but in all honesty I don't think I could become as polarised as this "debate" if I tried.
[/Thread Review]
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 05:14
Every time I log into the game recently all I do is duel. Personally I think dueling is really lame but the times I log on there isn't anywhere near enough people to pk and have any fun at it.
Every time I see one of these people who complain about pking on the forums come duel, they are always the ones to be completely lame and screw things up... They lose.. omg the other person cheated... You can even be really nice to them and be like "gf" and its "Oh I was aiming terribly because my dog ate my homework" or whatever other lame excuse...
Its no different when they are complaining about pking. Except now they think they can get away with it more cause more people might believe them when they make up shit about how the pker pked them while they were hunting, and he was 10 lvls lower and etc etc.
These people are like whiny little children. You don't give them what they want when they throw their little tantrums. You make them grow up and adapt to the situation. It makes me sick that the game was ever ruined to cater to these whiny little preschool children to begin with.
If there was anything to the anti pkers arguments, they wouldn't always be exxagerating situations, outright lying about things, and they wouldn't be so pissed off all the time when complaining about it.
and jernau... who is it exactly that you KNOW left and stayed gone because of PKing? Or are you talking about more whiny little children who cancelled their account for like 2 days and sent a complaint to try to get revenge on the one pker who killed them?
Nope, they are experienced players who eventually decided that one of the down-side of the game to them (forced PvP) out-weighed all the positives. They tolerated the bugs, the immaturity of much of the community, the poor communication from KK, etc. etc. but in the end they got sick of people like Vet.
I think you'll have an extremely hard time persuading anyone that the PKers are the most mature or honest part of this community.
JackScratch
19-12-03, 05:50
You know, all in all, I may sound a little preachy, hell Im OK with that. But if you read through this thread, it isn't real hard to see, who doesn't have a clue. In fact, what do you want to be, they will respond to this post with something lie "yeah, it's you"? Fore warned is for armed, who's dumb enough to fall for this, come on, I dare you.
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 05:52
I didn't ask you for your miraculous mind reading evaluation of exactly why people who aren't you left. I'm asking you for their names. Because quite frankly your full of shit.
And I never said that all pkers as a general group were the most mature players. I said they are more mature than the people who whine about pking as a general group. You rarely ever see even a remotely thought out argument by a antipker, its all "teenager this" and "noob killing" that... a bunch of lies and a bunch of flaming. It has nothing to do with any morality. (If anyone think it does feel free to make your point... been waiting forever for this) It has everything to do with the anti-pkers inferiority complexes...
Some pkers really are teenagers going through puberty testing their surroundings. So what? They are still more mature than most anti-pkers who haven't even figured out how to emotionally deal with competition and set backs yet...
JackScratch
19-12-03, 06:02
Oh this is rich, I love this. I have someone called "Kriminal99" talking to me about inferiority complexes? LOLOLOL. Yeah that's great, and what was your doctorate in again? Lies? SO let me get this straight, PKing is the product of some mass conspiracy? You are calling me, a liar in this post, I'm afraid I consider that very ofensive, specialy since you have absolutely nothing but your messed up outlook on life to base it on. You know what, age isn't everything, there are mature kids and imature adults, that is by no means the norm, not even in NC.
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 06:15
Originally posted by JackScratch
Oh this is ritch, I love this. I have someone called "Kriminal99" talking to me about inferiority complexes? LOLOLOL. Yeah that's great, and what was your doctorate in again? Lies? SO let me get this straight, PKing is the product of some mass conspiracy? You are calling me, a liar in this post, I'm afraid I consider that very ofensive, specialy since you have absolutely nothing but your messed up outlook on life to base it on. You know what, age isn't everything, there are mature kids and imature adults, that is by no means the norm, not even in NC.
No I was calling the person above you a liar for claiming that "certain people he knew" left the game because of pking yet he, like everyone who claims this completely avoids naming them.
90% of the people I knew who claimed to be leaving because of pking made a whiny post on the forum about it, then came back a week later. Now they refer to each other or better yet imaginary people and claim that people left because of the pking.
Were you attempting to make some kind of point or did you have some kind of argument in your post? Well might as well use you as an example for my point then...
Quote:
I have someone called "Kriminal99" talking to me about inferiority complexes?
So your saying kriminal99 = inferiority complex?
Makes no sense and is irrelevant to discussion.
Quote:
I'm afraid I consider that very ofensive, specialy since you have absolutely nothing but your messed up outlook on life to base it on.
Again makes no sense... randomly saying I have a messed up outlook on life yet you decline to ever comment why anything I have said is messed up... irrelevant to discussion.
Quote:
You know what, age isn't everything, there are mature kids and imature adults, that is by no means the norm, not even in NC.
What isn't the norm? Are you talking about antipkers? Noone ever said antipkers are the norm, so I guess not...
Maybe this is related to what you were trying to say, but almost everyone may be frusterated for 2 seconds when they get pked, just like if you lose a game on a sports team. Thats not the same thing as complaining to the refs for 20 minutes because you think the call was bad just because it made you lose...
Anyways this is exactly my point about anti pkers. There is no meat to their arguments, just a bunch of grizzly, greasy fat...
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for one of them to make an actual logical point every now and then, but for the most part its nothing but troll troll troll...
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
No I was calling the person above you a liar for claiming that "certain people he knew" left the game because of pking yet he, like everyone who claims this completely avoids naming them.
Would their in-game or RL names mean anything to you or make you look less like an ass? No.
I know several of them IRL and I can assure you they haven't all come back. Some people I know have left and then returned but those weren't the ones I was referring to. If they were I would have said so.
Do you really believe no-one has left because they felt their was too much Random PKing in NC?
I can't name a single person who REALLY left the game because there wasn't enough. All those who claim they have either snuck back later (often with new names) or were just bored and having a stab at the carebears as they left.
JackScratch
19-12-03, 06:33
The logical point is there, clear as a bell, your lack of familiarity with the english language hasn't winked it out of existance.
quote the quote by me:
You know what, age isn't everything, there are mature kids and imature adults, that is by no means the norm, not even in NC.
end quote
What is not the norm, would be mature kids and imature adults. Because I use proper sentance structure that was clear to anyone who reads on a 4th grade level
Kriminal99 - this name certainly lends itself to the desire to be tough, streetwise, etc. People who possess these qualities have no need to prove it with a realy cool streetwise name. Not saying there is anything wrong with your name, but come on, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
In a previous post you said, and Im not going back to look for it so I will paraphrase, all people who say they were ganked while hunting are full of shit, they are lying. Well, I have been ganked while hunting, by runners of a much higher level than myself, and from behind. Since this is the case, and I have "whined" about it. You are calling me a liar.
and Finaly, you wouldn't know a logical point if it bit you on the ass.
Originally posted by jernau
Do you really believe no-one has left because they felt their was too much Random PKing in NC?
No-one knows any real figures on this. Sure some people would have gone, with neocron just not being the sort of game they would enjoy because of the way PvP works, as you said. But how many people actually decided that this is really the game for them because they enjoy all the thrills the risks of getting PKd actually offered. I'm no RPKer but personally, that and the whole PvP system is what made me stay on, what made neocron stand out from the crowd.
No-one knows how many people left when the pk nerfs came in, people have said the PKers made a small part of the community, some of them would have left, how many others left because things just got slightly boring (in their eyes) - with less pkers and less risk of losing anything?
I cant really comment on it, but it may be more people than those who didnt like the PKing.
edit: By PKing I am meaning getting gunned down by your enemy faction. I started on UK release and I didnt really notice much in faction PKing.
Devils Grace
19-12-03, 13:47
Originally posted by JackScratch
[B]Fails, I have already succeded. There has been a huge change in the PK environment on Pluto since retail. Not only is there much less Random/Faction PK,
theres 2 reasons for that and belive me i know...
A - u can walk the map and u will not find anyone except on weekends wen the number are high...
B - all the " asshole, no moral, psicho" players left game or left server.......................
i was tought to have morals, wich im goin to teach them my daughter to..... but 1sdt of all im goin to teach her to survive, and be the best, and within the best moral values, everyting goes....
EVERYTING...
this is a competitive world, where the strongest survive and progress, just like neocron, the only diference betwen NC and real world is that i dont need to kill anyone to survive
AND if u pay attention that hapens only in some countrys, others need to kill to survive,,, unfortunnally yes.
Look at what ur country do, or are u still hoping to find mass desctruction weapons.....
" HELLO im a BD and u a TG, and we are enemies, can u pls let me try to kill u "
for fuck sake
Numb - that's precisely my point.
Kriminal99's generalisation that anyone who disagrees with him is a liar is patently ludicrous.
Kriminal99 - this name certainly lends itself to the desire to be tough, streetwise, etc. People who possess these qualities have no need to prove it with a realy cool streetwise name. Not saying there is anything wrong with your name, but come on, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
and people with glass jaws should watch their mouth, because ill break their face, have ur ass running mumbling to the j. ya going gainst me dog, big mistake.
good song init, and i find it ironic how your saying someone else is not street totally going off topic from this thread, i see this as thread hijacking, someone helen angilley used to do alot and she is now banned. so you know where your going if you carry on the way your acting. stay on topic thanks. as he said, your nothing but a grizzly, foamin at da teeth
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 18:06
Originally posted by jernau
Would their in-game or RL names mean anything to you or make you look less like an ass? No.
I know several of them IRL and I can assure you they haven't all come back. Some people I know have left and then returned but those weren't the ones I was referring to. If they were I would have said so.
Do you really believe no-one has left because they felt their was too much Random PKing in NC?
I can't name a single person who REALLY left the game because there wasn't enough. All those who claim they have either snuck back later (often with new names) or were just bored and having a stab at the carebears as they left.
You continue to lie and refuse to name (obviously in game or forum names is what I am asking for) then continue to accuse me of doing the same thing when I haven't even made the rediculous accusations that you have.
People leave the game when they get bored. If the game is fun they will stay through any amount of pking or lack thereof... no matter how much they whine and complain about pking or whatever else on the forums in a pvp based game simply because they don't know how to get good at it and are afraid they can't.
People like you will make up anything to support their argument... Because coming to the right answer or solving problems is not your goal, just vindication for people taking away dillusions that you are the best player to ever exist....
Oh so now you try to twist the situation to regain some of your credibillity... When did I say anyone who disagreed with me is a liar... I just said that antipkers will throw this statement around left and right but they will never leave themselves and never seem to know any real people that they are talking about. Furthermore I don't know of anyone that said they left because of pking and stayed gone, I know it would be against human nature to do that, I know many people who are more challenged because of rpking and that the game thinned out when PVP was heavily nerfed a few months after retail because it got very linear and boring. I also know it is very likely for people like you to lie and make up imaginary people who left to support your argument, justifying in your mind by thinking there must be someone who actually left because of that and you just don't know them. But you never actually bother to look into it or find out, you just continue to throw around made up statements.
@ Jack scracth.. You use "proper setence structure" but have a total lack of abillity to communicate what you are trying to say which is the only thing that matters when arguing with people on a forum... Im no english expert and couldn't care less but common sense tells me using "that" to refer to a statement made within the same setence is probably incorrect...
It especially didn't make sense because I never said teenagers are more mature than adults. What I was saying is that calm minded (at that moment) teenagers are more mature than infuriated adults (at that moment) which is 100% true.
Here we go again with the little jack scratch logic-
Your not going to go back and read what my post actually said, so your just going to pretend it said what you interpreted it as and then go on to make an argument based on that. I never said people don't ever actually get ganked while hunting, I said that people are usually lying and/or exxagerating about this happening. Real occurrences of stuff like ganking 0/2 s and the stuff that might be considered somewhat lame by anyone are like 1/10 the accusations of them. Thats what I'm saying. Just like your mind doesn't let you read what people actually post, their mind doesn't let them face the reality of the situation (to protect itself)
Im not going to say I never get mad or never miscommunicate things, but I don't go onto the forums like a little baby sputtering total nonsense and expecting people to give me any credibillity. To me finding truth and solving problems is more important than trying to win an argument by saying things that sound funny and insult people or sound right but make no sense or are made up.
Why don't you give up the sham and replace your posts with " I r teH smart. KRIM (or other) is tEh stupad HRHR. Look at me!!" Because that is basically the short version of every post you have made on this thread.
My forum name, like everyones forum name, has nothing to do with anything... and ive used the same or similar name sense I was like 12 so that people could recognize me from game to game. (I am now 21). Maybe youd like it if everyones forum/game name was Bob/fred/joe whatever? Regardless this has nothing to do with the fact that most anti pkers are fueled by a fear that they are bad pvpers...
Kriminal - I have accused you of nothing while you continue to make unfounded accusations against anyone who points out your numerous and ludicrous faults.
How would names change anything? You could continue to keep your head up your arse and say I was making them up anyway. Reality seems to pose no obstacle to your idiocy.
Of the clan-members that left only one ever posted on these forums that I know of and then only a very few times. I seriously doubt you'd remember any of them from in-game as even if you played the same server and times you clearly wouldn't get on.
You can lie and deny all you like but the majority of players have seen this to some extent.
The really retarded thing about you and your POV is that I'm not even strongly anti-PK. If you actually read my posts you'd see I support people playing in ALL roles and fashions. I don't think the current game supports this totally but it's a lot better than the systems some rather short-sighted people propose.
It's morons like you that force polarisation on this issue and thereby ultimately shoot your idiot selves in the foot because when push comes to shove most of us in the middle-ground turn against you because we don't want to associate with retards.
/edit to your edit - " people like you" - what do you think you know about me? Ffs man are you really this dumb? Can't you see the irony of accususing "people like me" of making things up in a statement entirely full of unproven conjecture and outright nonsense.
Originally posted by JackScratch
The logical point is there, clear as a bell, your lack of familiarity with the english language hasn't winked it out of existance.
Whooo boy, that sounds familiar - who said that about who before?
:lol:
Originally posted by JackScratch
What is not the norm, would be mature kids and imature adults. Because I use proper sentance structure that was clear to anyone who reads on a 4th grade level
Lets not brag about your prowess with the english language just yet Jack.
Kriminal99 - this name certainly lends itself to the desire to be tough, streetwise, etc. People who possess these qualities have no need to prove it with a realy cool streetwise name. Not saying there is anything wrong with your name, but come on, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
ONOZ< UR NAME EST JACK SCRATCH! HAWR HWAR THAT MEANS U R EVIL GAMBLAR MANZ, UR MANE ALSO HAS OLD SK00L REFERANCE 2 JERSEY DEVIL DUDE. DAT IST B4D NAME.
THAT MEAN U MAKE PEEPOL DISAPEAR AND U 'EAT EM AND MAKE KARDZ WIT SKINS OF DOSE PEEPOL.
:lol:
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 18:58
Originally posted by jernau
Kriminal - I have accused you of nothing while you continue to make unfounded accusations against anyone who points out your numerous and ludicrous faults.
How would names change anything? You could continue to keep your head up your arse and say I was making them up anyway. Reality seems to pose no obstacle to your idiocy.
Of the clan-members that left only one ever posted on these forums that I know of and then only a very few times. I seriously doubt you'd remember any of them from in-game as even if you played the same server and times you clearly wouldn't get on.
You can lie and deny all you like but the majority of players have seen this to some extent.
The really retarded thing about you and your POV is that I'm not even strongly anti-PK. If you actually read my posts you'd see I support people playing in ALL roles and fashions. I don't think the current game supports this totally but it's a lot better than the systems some rather short-sighted people propose.
It's morons like you that force polarisation on this issue and thereby ultimately shoot your idiot selves in the foot because when push comes to shove most of us in the middle-ground turn against you because we don't want to associate with retards.
/edit to your edit - " people like you" - what do you think you know about me? Ffs man are you really this dumb? Can't you see the irony of accususing "people like me" of making things up in a statement entirely full of unproven conjecture and outright nonsense.
The accusations are not unfounded at all- anyone who knows anything about arguing knows that people will lie to support their argument if they think they can get away with it. In fact when you argue about anything outside of video game forums, you HAVE to list all your sources for information for you to be given any credibillity at all.
So you continue to refuse to name any actual people that you are talking about. Then you make rediculous excuses about why it would be pointless (which wouldn't be a reason not to do it if you weren't lying) People who play the game don't exist in a vacuum. Unless they are just a figment of your imagination, which is probably the case here. If you know someone that played the game, other people would to. Im surprised you haven't had the brains to realize you could just make up names that you know weren't real players to support your argument.
In case you haven't noticed, posting that you are leaving the game because of some thing that pisses you off but never actually leaving is like the cool thing to do. If these people later leave because they get bored, they or anyone else can make up whatever reason they want for why they left. That doesn't change the fact that they left because they were bored. In fact if someone had earlier claimed but they were leaving but didn't, and then later got bored and really did leave, they probably wouldn't pass up the chance to claim it was because of whatever they said before would they? (true or not)
Are you quoting yourself in your edit btw? It says "people like you" right under where you wrote "morons like you". Thats pretty funny. I know enough about you to know that you don't argue legitimatly. Anyone who 90% of their posts are false projections of other people, insults, just mindless whining etc fall into this category.
I really don't care what you claim to be anyone that makes statements like this
Quote:
"Talentless kiddies that need exploits to gank 0/2s really don't add much to the game."
to refer to all people who pk people is in the category I am talking about- people who try and force the world to conform to whatever makes them feel better rather than face and deal with reality.
In reality, the game went downhill after all the PVP changes were put into the game. I know exactly why this is. It has nothing to do with people not liking being pked. It has everything to do with the game becoming boring which was a side effect of the PVP changes.
Wow! Delusional and intellectually challenged. You really are the bottom of the barrel aren't you.
Just goes to prove everyone can excel at something.
Take pride in your specialness. The world needs people like you so the normally challenged have someone to look down on.
/edit - reply if you like but I've already hit ignore and unsubscribe. I can simluate your mind in 2-3 likes of java if I ever feel the need, which I won't.
KRIMINAL99
19-12-03, 19:15
Originally posted by jernau
Wow! Delusional and intellectually challenged. You really are the bottom of the barrel aren't you.
Just goes to prove everyone can excel at something.
Take pride in your specialness. The world needs people like you so the normally challenged have someone to look down on.
/edit - reply if you like but I've already hit ignore and unsubscribe. I can simluate your mind in 2-3 likes of java if I ever feel the need, which I won't.
Lol this is the best result that can come from arguing with people like you... No more attempting to hide your motives with fake arguments mixed in with the rest. Just mindless preschool behavior.
I really don't care if you ignore or not... the point is to keep people like you from hiding behind a completely hollow yet seemingly noble position. Positions which serve no other purpose but to protect your self emotionally. Positions which destroy meaningful discussion.
Jackscratch- Wow further up you actually had some posts that were more than just insults so-
This is a video game not in real life. We don't advocate killing people in real life for our gang/company/family whatever to get an edge on people. Playing a video game is like a sport- Pking is like stealing the ball in basketball. You talk about the game like it was your real life or something. (not an insult just an observation)
Your whole POV seems to be based on the fact that PVP based games are not viable. They are- for players who can handle competitive situations. And if it was done perfectly, people could LEARN how to handle competitive situations if they weren't the type when they started playing. But this isn't done by having a game where the gm's encourage whining about pking through their actions. (which is a large portion of MMO's) Its done by encouraging people to adapt to a difficult situation.
Jack chill I think these issuse could be taken to a psyc.
This is a game and your talking like it is reality. I think when you have a problem with the faction war system and your family thinks it is like racism and needs to be changed. I dont know if its just me but I think that is a little far.
well it is da truth, anyone who says the game did not go down hill after the PK changes what else made the game go downhill? exactly, its the most valid reason and fact. i still aint heard any other reason. and shi, after hate(not just my friends, but nearly all the pkers around) left it was not only us who left, it was lots of mb left aswell and other factions, but i remember mb going to shi after the pk changes cuz they only enjoyed going after pkers, now there is no reason to hire mercs
Clownst0pper
19-12-03, 21:07
Fails, I have already succeded. There has been a huge change in the PK environment on Pluto since retail. Not only is there much less Random/Faction PK, but people treat PKer differently, they aren't feared or respected. They are treated like special needs children. Saturn, certainly has a long way to go, but the reign of the PKer days are numbered, the rest of us can look forward to happy days, enjoying honorable combat, testing our skills against worthy oponents, rather than preying on noobs, and ganking people from behind.
This is beyond me..
Let me define Pker...
Pker = Player Killer = Someone who kills other players for fun.
In essence Red = Dead.
Anyone In this game who doesnt stick to faction enemies, Red = Dead policy either
A) Needs to re-address why there playing neocron
B) If they have re-addressed why then re-access again, Red should always = dead IMHO on this game, and as long as im playing no matter what NAP's are in place to me it will always apply.
They are treated like special needs children. Saturn, certainly has a long way to go, but the reign of the PKer days are numbered, the rest of us can look forward to happy days, enjoying honorable combat, testing our skills against worthy oponents
So...If your out say at Tezla OP, and you are just stood their and youve just killed a grim, and I run at you, as you are facing me, would you not sot that is in effect testing your skills? and in essence I am attempting to PK you, or 'kill' you as red = dead?
Or even if I come from behind you, anyone with any amount of skill in this game keeps track of the player tracker in the bottom of the Hud, I always have my '3rdeye watching it'
;)
And because I choose to kill you in a zone that inspires fighting without your permission you see me as unworthy?
If you think saturn has a long way to go, your damn right, as long as I, Blade, Mike, #151988, Andy Constable, Twist3d and as long as we all love Red = Dead which we do very much, dont ever come to saturn.
I wonder why plutos so dead? OH! thats because you and your carebear ego are on there! :p :lol:
I pitty the fool:o
the thing is, u act like your top man, da don round ere saying dat shit. if u was on the sreets chattin about games wiv ya friends and u brought up neocron and started saying how u treat the players whjo play the game in the funniest and less serious way like speichal needs children, u wud ither get smacked or you would be looked down upon as a geek snob, fix up get a sence of humour and recognize
No more flames on this thread please.
N
Damnit Nid, this thread was good and dead - and now Jack's gonna post more crap here which I'll have to contest.
:confused:
JackScratch
20-12-03, 19:45
Just for the record, CardSharp/Magician is my very real, very lucrative, only career. JackScratch is a stage name I use for victorian events. And most importantly, I don't get smacked or disrespected IRL, it just doesn't happen, for damn sure not twice. In a city the size of Houston, I am considered one of the best card men, by some of the best cardmen, course they could just have poor judgement. However, my continued ability to obtain contracts rather tends to lead me to believe they might be correct. I can do things with a deck of cards that you wouldn't believe can be done till you saw them.
KRIMINAL99
20-12-03, 21:34
Card Sharp = :lol:
Name Jack Scratch used on NeoForums + Your logic = "inferiority complex"
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