View Full Version : An idea to make PPUs mortal without nerfing non-monks
I started to think that how PPUs could be nerfed so that one could kill them but still so that PEs, Spies and Tanks wouldn't get nerfed too. I came up with this idea...
Change all the PSI based armors (PAs included) and either all the PSI implants or just the most usefull ones (attack chips, def processors, PSI Core, DS...) to give PSI Resist (PSR). Then change the shield and heal spells (and rest of the spells, both APU and PPU) so that PSR resists them.
So if you have PSI Resist and someone for example casts heal on you, it won't heal you as quickly as it would heal someone else who don't have PSR. Same for shelter and deflector spells. What this would cause is that PPUs, APUs and hybrids will be forced to have PSR (unless they want to gimp themselves badly by having no armor and/or implants) thus shields and heals won't work on them very effectively. This would make PPUs killable again (or is it the first time during their existence :)), APU and PPU combination wouldn't be as godlike anymore as both would have weaker defense than they have now and hybrids would get their share of nerf too. Other classes on the other hand won't be affected at all.
So, what do you think about this idea? The most stupid idea ever? THE way to fix PPUs?
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous to force monks have PSR which will just only screw them, but maybe it makes some sense that the PSI armors and some/all implants give PSR. Atleast it makes sense that PSI Resist resists PSI powers, even if it isn't working at the moment.
Eledhbrant
14-12-03, 18:32
The most stupid idea ever IMO.
PPU's are NOT meant to be killable by one person.
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
The most stupid idea ever IMO.
PPU's are NOT meant to be killable by one person.
yea like he said . . .
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ghandisfury
14-12-03, 18:56
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ghandi got it pretty much in a nutshell ;)
omfg...
this is comin from the guy who calls me a close minded and biased,
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and yes just like eledh said... this is the most rediculous ppu idea to date. this is as stupid as the idea to make shelter and deflector self cast only.
Discuss the proposal reasonably or not at all please.
N
Well mmkay niddy.
The PPUs and Hybrids needs to be looked into and revamped, but
I dont think this is the way to go.
I still dont think that warrants the "You are a fucking idiot PPUs
are supposed to be ubar" replies that every idea to fix PPUs. If
you are a PPU then it would be in your interest to discuss
reasonable changes to the PPUs because otherwise theres a
bigger chance for KK to sledgenerfing them and youll all just end
up being even more pissed after that.
I see that that point might not have gotten through in my
exercise of finer rhetorics.
VVerevvolf
14-12-03, 19:11
This is truely idiotic.
ghandisfury
14-12-03, 19:12
I'm not sure if that's possible Nid. :angel:
Anyway, very bad idea.......what you are proposing is that a PPU or an APU would "have to gimp themselves" if they wanted to use thier equipment the way it was meant to be used. If this is the case, should we do the same to PEs, tanks, and spies?
The hardest job of balance is that you have to take away what is imbalancing whilest still keeping the game fair. Not "you chose to be a monk, so you can't use any of the things that we orrigionally wanted to give you". How would you like it if your PE PA's negative was "you can't use Black sun, or Liberator"? It wouldn't be fair for your PA (or whatever) to *remove* your ability when it doesn't do that to anybody else.
sorry, as much as i want psi resist start working i know that i have to suffer the consequences of it.
if i want to play aPPU then i have the right to have the best defence ever as the fighting class have the right to have the best weapons out there.
im shure most PPU dont care if thei freez doo any damage because they use othere abilitys to kill stuff aswell.
PSI resist users are the next special class out there if KK finaly fix it. wonder hat ppl think about a 200 PSI resist monk. did i hear 3 damage from a rare spell???
that would be a class i like to test it i get XPbeing hit by a spell on a rate like (dammage*psi resist) or someting.
EDIT: lol i wonder why this thread is still open :)
I want Tanks to be the main damage sponges, not PPUs. There
should be like.. PPU main hybrid, main supporter, low damage
dealer. APU main hybrid, main damage dealer, low defence and
support. PPU should have defence of the current PE, and the APU
should be pretty much as it is now. The Tanks should be superior
when it comes to taking damage and pretty good at dishing it
out, especially AE, but thats it. PEs and Spies should be doing
alot of funky stuff and be all-rounders.
Pe's can take ALOT more damage then a tank , with shelter , move on , resistor yeah its not right...-_-, tanks feel like a spy, oh wait spy can use shelter....
Shadow Dancer
14-12-03, 20:09
Damn, that's alot of edits. o_O
Personally I think the idea sounds a bit intriguing, but you don't say why ppus should be mortal in the first place. Why should they be?
To me, the problem is that the ppus are too damn important in the game. I guess the problem of their immortality is tied in with the problem of them being too important. I don't think the most important char in the game should be the most powerful one, defensively.
Anyways, I kinda like the idea. But I vote no. Because I don't think it would really solve anything.
LOOOOOOOOL do you play a monk class at all??!?!?!?!
FFS =)
The art of major DEFENCE!!!! yes thats a PPU and itwould at least be 2 APU:s or 1 + an other char to kill it. "If he doesnt rezz ;)" Then You need only a spy to do it :D
The worst PPU idea I ever seen, that would mean that a PE has stronger def then a PPU O_o ok almost :P If your nerf going to get thru, which I doubt
So... your saying nerf the monks COMPLETELY to hell, make the character that was designed to be killed be 2+ people killable by one, and make shields completely shitey? People would run around without imps in to escape the psi resist gimp.
First of all, this idea were not thought to the end so that it could be implemented as is, but instead a raw idea how monks could be made mortal. Second of all my intention was not that PPUs would die when you just point a gun at them, but instead that they would loose HP if they are being shot by some high level ppl (like every one else) and be unable to out heal the damage made to them.
The hardest job of balance is that you have to take away what is imbalancing whilest still keeping the game fair. Not "you chose to be a monk, so you can't use any of the things that we orrigionally wanted to give you". How would you like it if your PE PA's negative was "you can't use Black sun, or Liberator"? It wouldn't be fair for your PA (or whatever) to *remove* your ability when it doesn't do that to anybody else. This idea doesn't take away any of the monks abilities, it just would make them less efective against monks. And if you check some of the implants there is, you'll find out that there are implants that gives something important but reduces some other important skills.
why ppus should be mortal in the first place Why aren't everyone immortal then? IMO no char should be immortal in Neocron, but that just my opinion... And what's the fun of playing immortal char anyway?
And isn't it true that the clan that has most PPUs and APUs wins OP wars? If yes doesn't that mean that everyone will be monks if nothing is being made to them?
But as you lot disliked this idea (and were unable to bring any other ideas but just flame) how about this then: Make only for example two highest level PSI armor sets and attack 3 and def 3 give PSR?
PS. My main char is APU.
PPS. Feal free to discuss, but if all you can is flaming, then don't bother posting.
Originally posted by GaZal
First of all, this idea were not thought to the end so that it could be implemented as is, but instead a raw idea how monks could be made mortal. Second of all my intention was not that PPUs would die when you just point a gun at them, but instead that they would loose HP if they are being shot by some high level ppl (like every one else) and be unable to out heal the damage made to them.
This idea doesn't take away any of the monks abilities, it just would make them less efective against monks. And if you check some of the implants there is, you'll find out that there are implants that gives something important but reduces some other important skills.
Why aren't everyone immortal then? IMO no char should be immortal in Neocron, but that just my opinion... And what's the fun of playing immortal char anyway?
And isn't it true that the clan that has most PPUs and APUs wins OP wars? If yes doesn't that mean that everyone will be monks if nothing is being made to them?
But as you lot disliked this idea (and were unable to bring any other ideas but just flame) how about this then: Make only for example two highest level PSI armor sets and attack 3 and def 3 give PSR?
PS. My main char is APU.
PPS. Feal free to discuss, but if all you can is flaming, then don't bother posting.
PPU's DO lose health when you shoot them, its holy heal that negates that damage and keeps them alive . . .
PPU's DO lose health when you shoot them, its holy heal that negates that damage and keeps them alive . . . So either you nerf the holy heal and make them less good healer class or do something that won't affect the PPU spells effectiveness on other chars but makes them to be less effective on themselvess.
IMO PPUs should be healers who can very effectively heal and protect others but they should _not_ be gods.
Only reason apu's are so good in op wars because they do insane dmg , and the holy heal keeps em alive. Holy Heal = monkocron
Only reason apu's are so good in op wars because they do insane dmg , and the holy heal keeps em alive. Holy Heal = monkocron No PPU -> No Holy Heal -> No APU -> No monkocron ?
In english: If PPUs can be killed there's no-one to cast Holy Heal to keep APUs alive and thus the number of monks will be reduced?
Originally posted by GaZal
No PPU -> No Holy Heal -> No APU -> No monkocron ?
In english: If PPUs can be killed there's no-one to cast Holy Heal to keep APUs alive and thus the number of monks will be reduced?
whats the point of an APU in OPbattles without shelter ???
you cannot make PPU easy killable you need to lower his influence on others.
This thread = how to lose yet another 50% of server populations...
monks dont need a nerf, other classes need a little boost
ghandisfury
14-12-03, 21:47
Originally posted by GaZal
First of all, this idea were not thought to the end so that it could be implemented as is, but instead a raw idea how monks could be made mortal. Second of all my intention was not that PPUs would die when you just point a gun at them, but instead that they would loose HP if they are being shot by some high level ppl (like every one else) and be unable to out heal the damage made to them.
While the PPU isn't able to do anything to the people (or person) shooting at them correct? So you want to make them killable without letting them kill.....that's all I'm hearing.
Originally posted by GaZal
This idea doesn't take away any of the monks abilities, it just would make them less efective against monks. And if you check some of the implants there is, you'll find out that there are implants that gives something important but reduces some other important skills.
Such as? I see no negatives for the SA/hawk/herc/SF/SS/Marine...all of the high level chips in the game. And to be quite honest, alot of the high level chips have negatives, but it's nothing to worrie about for your character.
Originally posted by GaZal
Why aren't everyone immortal then? IMO no char should be immortal in Neocron, but that just my opinion... And what's the fun of playing immortal char anyway?
We're not immortal, we are hard to kill. And why "not make everyone immorta?" because everone else can kill.
Originally posted by GaZal
And isn't it true that the clan that has most PPUs and APUs wins OP wars? If yes doesn't that mean that everyone will be monks if nothing is being made to them?
ALL monks got trashed with this last patch. Monk heavy clans will have to rely more on tanks because they will no longer be able to have the APU die 100 times and get back up. So no, not since this patch will monks "win all OP wars".
Originally posted by GaZal
But as you lot disliked this idea (and were unable to bring any other ideas but just flame) how about this then: Make only for example two highest level PSI armor sets and attack 3 and def 3 give PSR?
Ok, that's fine as long as PSR doesn't effect heal/shelter/deflector/whatever in a neggative manner. And if it does, then make the PE armor give negative WL, and spie armor give -TC, and tank armor give -HC, I think is't a good trade off.
Originally posted by GaZal
PS. My main char is APU.
And you've never played a PPU. Take note how it wouldn't effect how much damage the APU put out, or the ROF on his spells.....it only effects PPUs the most.:rolleyes: ...I'm sorry, I have a reasonably hard time with people wanting to nerf....and nerf.....and nerf before anything has been tested.
P.S. I just watched a spie kill a good APU/PPU monk team solo. If you want to nerf something, let's pick on the spies next:) .
YES! lets make the ppu not able to kill anyone but be able to be killed by anyone. WHAT A GREAT IDEA!
Eledhbrant
14-12-03, 22:28
Notice how mr. apu wants the ppu to have less effective defenses but explicitly says that his spells cast on others will not be nerfed? so his precious self gets kept alive while the ppu dies. Nice work.
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