View Full Version : Project: Underground Travel
Ok, here goes: With the last patch something was implemented
which has been wanted and missing for a long time, danger for
criminals in the city. As DoY comes I expect that this will escalate
even further and the "civilized" parts of Neocron will be pretty
much off limits for criminals and rebels, which it damn well should
be! This adds alot of RP to the game and more of the "us vs
them" feeling which has been missing a little in Neocron
compared to other mmorpgs such as DaoC. Now, if KK goes as far
with implementing equipment thats only available in different
locations and faction HQs then there will also be a pretty big
market for smuggling and other such activities. I have already
had the pleasure of getting empty BPs and some low TL spells for
a BD on Uranus, even if it might stuff thats pretty easy to obtain
*cough* I realised how fun that part of the game could become.
Now, there is something missing that will help the fun factor, the
atmospehere and general cyberpunkines go from 80% to 100%;
A means for criminals to travel in the shadier parts of town, away
from the suns glare and the ever present minions of Reeza, Im
talking of course of the sewers.
Now, the sewers are already there, used a little by noobs for
leveling and people doing missions. Its actually more crowded
than lets say.. outzone or industrial zone and are in general
pretty nice areas. The only thing missing from making this the
express-highway and hideout of the unlawful elements of
Neocron is the lack of connection! It would be a small thing to
add simple hatches, much like the ones you click to enter or leave
the sewers, that connects the sewers together in a logical
pattern. Not only the normal city sewers would be included in this
patten but also places such as aggie cellars, PP sewers and
eventually maybe the Main Sewers. This would make it
interesting for people to travel beneath the surface from
outzone, under plaza, to maybe via rosso or wherever they are
heading. As these places would soon be pretty commonly used
they would also be full of gunfights between the criminals the CA
affiliated that chose to go down to clean up the pack. Imagine
PvP fights down there, interesting to say the least. To further
enhance the "Neocron Underground" experience new rooms and
corridors could be added, with higher level mobs that makes even
capped players want to run through these areas, eating boosters
and antidotes as fast as humanly possible and not looking back.
Sounds good yes? So far I dont think anyone could have anything
against this idea, the problem could be the lack of manpower at
KK to prioritize and implement this idea, so what I propose is
this: I will try to organize a group of players that will map
Neocron and all underground areas and try to see where this
could connect logically, then supply the full map to KK with
suggested connection points on it and all KK has to do is
spawn "exits" at the proper locations (much like the exits used to
warp all over test server or the temporary deveraux underground
entrance), which pretty much eliminates all work on KKs side, and
with that their excuse not to implement this.
I know that some of you think Im a piece of shit, but I hope that
wont stop you from contributing to this project, if you are
interested in helping I assure you that I will let all old quarrels be
set aside while we work together with this. What I need to get
started is a map of Neocron itself, with all its areas, I know I saw
one a while back, does anyone know where such a map can be
found? After I have a map it would be a small thing to assign
underground locations for people to map and put it all together.
So, anyone thats interesting in helping me with this, DM me and I
will make a list and contact you when we reach the mapping
phase of this project. Thanks in advance.
PS. Could I please get a reply from KK stating if something similar
is in the works and we would just completely waste our time if
we went through with this project? It has great potential from
helping you with some work but also great potential to waste
alot of manhours to no avail if you guys at KK are already working
on it or simply hate the idea. DS
Also please rate this thread if you think its a good idea.
Psycho Killa
12-12-03, 20:40
Ive been hoping they would do this since i even explored my first sewer :)
I think I read along time ago they orginaly intended them to connect but didnt get to it among other things....
This would be great and I hope they already even have it done for doy!!
Yah this would be truly amazing. Main Sewers would actually have a use if they didnt just connect PP to the Outzone and Ind sectors. If the sewers were to connect with every aspect of the entire city I would probably wet myself from excitement.
I'll definitely assist if I can. There aren't any Neocron city maps here (http://neocron.ems.ru/maps.html) but it shows soom good layouts of other NC maps.
Right now the plaza sewers are the noob hunting grounds, and I think they should remain as such.
Instead of fooling with that, I would advocate taking the main sewer system (if thats the name- the one you can enter via Outzone or that big shaft in PP that the 2 mutants stands beside... that sewer system) and adding more exits to it- the exits can be in Via, Plaza, Pepper, Industrial, Outzone, and maybe some in the nearby wastelands as well. The new exists can be placed in such a way that the entrance is not directly guarded by a factional guard.
Make the sewers be anarchy zones- or warzones, whatever is most conducive to criminal elements. i.e. make it so they are not encouraged as a hunting ground, but as a seedy sewer system used by criminals and higher level chars for sneaking around.
Would likely have to remove the doors that require hacking to pass if the idea is to have this a used thoroughfare.
I actually thought about that part strych, but I came to the
conclusion that this would not mean that the sewers would stop
being noob huntingrounds, and exactly for that reason the areas
should stay the way they are in terms of SL loss and looting. It
would add some interaction between low and high level players
which this game is now totally lacking, seriously, if you are say.. a
BD runner and travelling through the sewers and happen upon a
BD noob leveling, you wouldnt be able to stop yourself from
helping the fella, talking to him and give him some pointers. This
is exactly the sort of push in the back that new players needs.
There is nothing better than a some human interaction and help
when you first come into a game, a tutorial is nice but interaction
makes people stay. Now of course this will also cause the
occational griefing, but I think we would have quite alot of anti-
PKers happy to help and as I said earlier, the SL punishment
would still be there so it would be fairly rare. A 0/2 noob is just
not worth doing missions for half n hour.
Psycho Killa
12-12-03, 20:54
Fuck the noobs they hunt in there for an hour at the most. :)
Honestly there much better off in the little den in pepper park hew. I always found it better to start off leveling there.
just an idea m8, but if you could get people to take a screenie of nav ray map then blow them up? thats make them bigger not mail them a nailbomb :P
although i cant remember if sewers come up as just a blank map, if they do ignore this idea i r n00b :(
edit: just checked, the maps are blank so cancel that idea :( and *****
Yes, all sewers and the secret, cool part of the BD tunnel should all be connected, and the subway...so you can actually see the subway things drive at some places....like in the neocron offline demo...well not really, but you should be able to...
But only if they make plaza guards to actually shoot anyone opposing CA on sight....right now its ridicoulous.
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 20:57
Originally posted by Rade
I know that some of you think Im a piece of shit,
Jeez.......
Anyways I really like this idea alot and I do think KK should work on it. I'll add more later. But for now, you have my vote.
*****
Originally posted by icarium
just an idea m8, but if you could get people to take a screenie of nav ray map then blow them up? thats make them bigger not mail them a nailbomb :P
although i cant remember if sewers come up as just a blank map, if they do ignore this idea i r n00b :(
Sewers come blank, thats why I need people to help me mapping
all these areas.
@duder: The hover thingie would be neat, but we are keeping it
simple and doable for now. Just adding simple exits here and
there tying everything together so that it becomes a easy
implementation for KK.
Heck, best noob levelling ground in PP is the ASG cellars (with the TG/canyon mobs in them... all melee save the iguana... narrow walls- that place ROCKS for levelling noobs).
Yeah, I will agree that using the existing sewers would work in terms of interaction.
Talk about a navigation nightmare... hehe. I have gotten lost before down in the main sewers- I was exploring outzone, found the entrance, ran in.. worst part was once I was knee deep and couldnt remember how to get out, I was completely out of ammo. NICE PLANNING.
BTW, I rated this thread 5 stars.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Jeez.......
Hehe, no sweat, I just dont want people to refrain from helping
because Im in SS or I want PPUs nerfed or whatever. A little
objectivity goes far :)
**edit @strych: Yeah thats the point, the game is a little lacking
in the "wooooo this place is big... where the fuck am I?"
department. And once people get used to it and some fansites
puts up maps with all the sewers then people will be able to
navigate it just fine when travelling. Most people will have certain
routes that they always take anyway.
Yah it would be cool to have a mixture of the Main Sewers and the normal sewers that connected the city. Maybe even have some of the connections be secret passages that you have to either know about or look for to find. :D
This makes a lot of sense - perhaps have "Pipe entrance" to move from one sewer to another, or something similar? Instead of the hatch doohicky.
Originally posted by Kimiko
This makes a lot of sense - perhaps have "Pipe entrance" to move from one sewer to another, or something similar? Instead of the hatch doohicky.
Yeah a pipe ala Super Mario Bros would be spiffy :p But that
requires some more work, Im trying to keep the idea to items
that are in the game only hence making it easiesr more likely for
KK to implement.
dont put drome in your vote makes me wana click it everytime even thought i like your idea, droms mmm sex
any way great idea one good thing is if higher level ppl go through the n00b sewers then more mobs will spawn giving the n00bs something to shoot.
Rade = win
Maybe I'll give back your stealth tool now. :D
Spectra260
12-12-03, 21:40
ive had the same idea for months...
there NEEDS to be ways of "secretly" traveling inside the city if your an anti city faction...especially when they are KOS everywhere in the city...
Originally posted by Rade
Ok, here goes: With the last patch something was implemented
which has been wanted and missing for a long time, danger for
criminals in the city. As DoY comes I expect that this will escalate
even further and the "civilized" parts of Neocron will be pretty
much off limits for criminals and rebels, which it damn well should
be! This adds alot of RP to the game and more of the "us vs
them" feeling which has been missing a little in Neocron
compared to other mmorpgs such as DaoC. Now, if KK goes as far
with implementing equipment thats only available in different
locations and faction HQs then there will also be a pretty big
market for smuggling and other such activities. I have already
had the pleasure of getting empty BPs and some low TL spells for
a BD on Uranus, even if it might stuff thats pretty easy to obtain
*cough* I realised how fun that part of the game could become.
Now, there is something missing that will help the fun factor, the
atmospehere and general cyberpunkines go from 80% to 100%;
A means for criminals to travel in the shadier parts of town, away
from the suns glare and the ever present minions of Reeza, Im
talking of course of the sewers.
Now, the sewers are already there, used a little by noobs for
leveling and people doing missions. Its actually more crowded
than lets say.. outzone or industrial zone and are in general
pretty nice areas. The only thing missing from making this the
express-highway and hideout of the unlawful elements of
Neocron is the lack of connection! It would be a small thing to
add simple hatches, much like the ones you click to enter or leave
the sewers, that connects the sewers together in a logical
pattern. Not only the normal city sewers would be included in this
patten but also places such as aggie cellars, PP sewers and
eventually maybe the Main Sewers. This would make it
interesting for people to travel beneath the surface from
outzone, under plaza, to maybe via rosso or wherever they are
heading. As these places would soon be pretty commonly used
they would also be full of gunfights between the criminals the CA
affiliated that chose to go down to clean up the pack. Imagine
PvP fights down there, interesting to say the least. To further
enhance the "Neocron Underground" experience new rooms and
corridors could be added, with higher level mobs that makes even
capped players want to run through these areas, eating boosters
and antidotes as fast as humanly possible and not looking back.
Sounds good yes? So far I dont think anyone could have anything
against this idea, the problem could be the lack of manpower at
KK to prioritize and implement this idea, so what I propose is
this: I will try to organize a group of players that will map
Neocron and all underground areas and try to see where this
could connect logically, then supply the full map to KK with
suggested connection points on it and all KK has to do is
spawn "exits" at the proper locations (much like the exits used to
warp all over test server or the temporary deveraux underground
entrance), which pretty much eliminates all work on KKs side, and
with that their excuse not to implement this.
I know that some of you think Im a piece of shit, but I hope that
wont stop you from contributing to this project, if you are
interested in helping I assure you that I will let all old quarrels be
set aside while we work together with this. What I need to get
started is a map of Neocron itself, with all its areas, I know I saw
one a while back, does anyone know where such a map can be
found? After I have a map it would be a small thing to assign
underground locations for people to map and put it all together.
So, anyone thats interesting in helping me with this, DM me and I
will make a list and contact you when we reach the mapping
phase of this project. Thanks in advance.
PS. Could I please get a reply from KK stating if something similar
is in the works and we would just completely waste our time if
we went through with this project? It has great potential from
helping you with some work but also great potential to waste
alot of manhours to no avail if you guys at KK are already working
on it or simply hate the idea. DS
Also please rate this thread if you think its a good idea.
Excellent thread as always Rade. Im behind ya all the way. ;)
5 stars from moi...
Clive tombstone
12-12-03, 22:18
I like it, It reminds me Of C&C generals Tunnel system for the GLA (which I used exclusivly :D ) Personally I think It would add to tension and also add for some things to do for BOTH sides. here the deal, While the Crims and ANti neo's are all about underground, NPCD peeps and other Pro-city facts could go On "raids" to elimante Criminal's and the like. Just thought that would be cool. I love the idea you have rade ,5 stars all the way
Spectra260
12-12-03, 22:31
in the warning thread about the changes to plaza 1 i was talking about many more ways to travel the city for the anti city people...he did say that they are working on it or somthing like that...
basically they got plans about it, but they probably wont be as good as your idea
Cruzbroker
12-12-03, 22:49
Great, been suggested before i think, still great.
I could do some planning as extra manpower, not in "core-team".
There could be some bars in places like separating aggie cellar and sewer rats, could see the mobs though... as plaza 1 sewer ONE zone..
so the noobs couldn't get everywhere just like that, more exploring and talking in chat "how can i get there?" etc..
five stars..
Originally posted by Cruzbroker
Great, been suggested before i think, still great.
I could do some planning as extra manpower, not in "core-team".
There could be some bars in places like separating aggie cellar and sewer rats, could see the mobs though... as plaza 1 sewer ONE zone..
so the noobs couldn't get everywhere just like that, more exploring and talking in chat "how can i get there?" etc..
five stars..
They would still be separated into zones, just with "portals" in
the shape of hatches transporting you between them, so the
mobs wouldnt spread into newbie areas. Its a extra benefit of
just using one of the mechanics that are already ingame, less
coding and nothing really changes except for the travel part,
which is just a great bonus.
Sweet idea! Two ideas of my own:
Have a sort of NCPD blockade in the begining levels of the waste land (The letter A part) that checks to make sure no anti city people are sneaking in. Now TG and they like have to be careful if they want to invade.
Even though it would be a little hard to do maybe have "Random entrances" meaning that passage ways sometimes appear and disappear so that you never go they same way twice.
Originally posted by Sealdude
Sweet idea! Two ideas of my own:
Have a sort of NCPD blockade in the begining levels of the waste land (The letter A part) that checks to make sure no anti city people are sneaking in. Now TG and they like have to be careful if they want to invade.
Even though it would be a little hard to do maybe have "Random entrances" meaning that passage ways sometimes appear and disappear so that you never go they same way twice.
I would prefer to have crahn guards at the "secret" entrance that
leads to the crahn church actually, since maybe ncpd doesnt
know it exists or something. Or maybe they just get spanked if
they go close to the church. Maybe that wasnt the entrance you
were talking about.
Spectra260
12-12-03, 23:00
Originally posted by Sealdude
Even though it would be a little hard to do maybe have "Random entrances" meaning that passage ways sometimes appear and disappear so that you never go they same way twice.
im not to sure about that:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 02:21
I would like "boss" mobs at certain checkpoints. Let's say you want to get from under Viarossa to under Plaza, you would have to fight a 3 star Aggie boss or something.
I posted a similar idea a while ago.... but it was mainly about the Mainsewer.
Anyway, yeah having all the sewers connected would be great fun :D
Cliffraiser
13-12-03, 02:58
great idea rade, 5 stars
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I would like "boss" mobs at certain checkpoints. Let's say you want to get from under Viarossa to under Plaza, you would have to fight a 3 star Aggie boss or something.
Eh yeah, and when he dies, he ressurects again, glows red, his attacks are twice as fast, and doubles his hitpoints?
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 03:21
Originally posted by Duder
Eh yeah, and when he dies, he ressurects again, glows red, his attacks are twice as fast, and doubles his hitpoints?
huh?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
huh?
The whole "boss at the end of the level" crap the japanese "rpg" shits out always have that super fun boss idea.
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 03:26
Oh c'mon it's cool.
I just ment general entrances into NC besides the main gate. As for random entrances it would spice up the sneaking feel of this. Think about it, places like this should be expansive and a bit confusing, thats why they are fun. If everytime to get to P1 from PP2 you went left,right,straight,left,right it would get kinda old imho.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I would like "boss" mobs at certain checkpoints. Let's say you want to get from under Viarossa to under Plaza, you would have to fight a 3 star Aggie boss or something. I'd prefer having to do the border jump! Just make the difficulty harder each time you do it, and give people beans for doing it more often then they need to!
--
Seriously though, this is a great idea, and I'm specifically talking about Rade's idea, SD's idea is neat too, but I think there should be more "newbie suited" bosses, somewhat higher level versions of normal enemies, like the giant blue cockroach of doom (http://www.waaazup.com/users/J.Folsom/gbc.jpg)*!
*Gotta love those GMs showing off.
Great idea, Rade!
In fact, in my early days, i thought the sewers would be connected somehow and thus searched almost all sewers in ViaRosso and Plaza for connections... then i stumbled across the "main sewer" ;)
SDs idea: not so great... additional "content" as higher leveled mobs in _newly_ implented rooms is ok, but not for simple traveling... go kiss a DoomHarbinger, if you need your push of adrenaline! :cool:
So the route is:
- map all sewers in ViaRosso & Plaza (1st and 2nd level of a sewer)
- map all "storage areas" and thelike in the Outzone
- think about geographically "logical" connections
possible extras:
- interconnection with some points of the main sewer (i got totally lost there and wasn't able to map that)
- implementation of newly added rooms with content (mobs ;)) for higher leveled chars (in the form of ideas, where to put those rooms)
Count myself in, Rade!
*Thumbs up*
Wilco
If they finally do it dont have the glowin electronic sign stuffm have maybe spray paint signs or carved signs to show the way:D
I've always thought this would be a good idea. Need to tweak the current GRing system so that anti-city can't just GR into Neocron, they should have to use the hidden tunnels and stuff.
Beanie McChimp
14-12-03, 03:46
Firstly brilliant idea good luck and KK bloody well give him a response this is a great idea and may bring more people back and on the BDOY box you can say "Rebels and criminals can move underground to get around the city without getting arrested" this is very promising please keep us up to date rade.
Quicky starting point I drew up in 5 min. It is starting from the Lvl 4 cellars in the Diamond Building in Plaza 1 and then connecting to the others from the hatch in the back that dosent open.
http://www.fotango.com/p/eba00397289f00000001.jpg
Ok, theres been a week, could I please have some respong
(PM or in here or whatever) from KK as to wether or not to go
forward with this?
the main sewers are great and anything that will get people down there the better.
The newbie sewers. I am torn. Connect yes but connect at a lower level, so you have to come up levels (and hack) so in the event a player goes on a zone killing spree they can't just easily run away to safer parts of the city to them.
Make the interconnections between major sewer systems hard to bypass. As someone mentioned an item that the mobs drop in the sewer as a means to pass (on both sides).
Also how about a major boss mob area in the sewer? there are a couple of nice places that simple are dead ends and would make fine boss mob areas.
Fantastic idea Rade (and no, I don't think you are a PoS :D)
When I first started playing NC, I was told that some sewers lead onto others and actually made a point of looking once or twice, but sadly to no avail. :(
This would be a cool idea if KK would introduce it :)
The thread about some factions not being allowed in P1 made me
recall this little project. Surprisingly o_O KK never got back to me.
Now, please KK, is it so hard to say either "go for it, and we will
see if we can use it" or "stfu moron, we have our own plans".
Just ignoring someone is probably the rudest thing you can do.
**edit: Or, just maybe, they want dont like the fact that Im trying
to become a productive member of the community and try to get
me back into the mindless spammer niche...
Psycho Killa
04-02-04, 01:35
I would be the happiest little fanboi if this was in game for doy.
Well it just kinda irks me, Ive never seen a poll before where the
community stands by an idea with such a huge majority, and we
even want to help pull the load a bit, but get no response
whatsoever from KK, I mean comeon. :(
Psycho Killa
04-02-04, 01:43
There was 300 votes for a racetrack gr I dont see that yet :p
Shadow Dancer
04-02-04, 01:53
Psycho beat me to it, i was just about to mention that.
i would really love to see this ingame.
P.S. wasnt there some shark or something in the main sewers?
In order for this to really work, they will have to do some serious adjustments to the way the current maincity sewers are .
For example, i'm sure they could arrange that the sector that ends in a dead end with this HUGE tunnel trapdoor ( currently down/locked ) and make it that you can lift the trapdoor and exit thru a sludgepit close to tawnkeen village. or to change some of the ways to access diffect zones.
fix the fact that there are flowers of rats spawning at the same spot ( 6 rats spawning in the same space ).Fix the exit in mainserwer section 1 that gets you in oz 2 without a way to get back in ( effectively resets_pos you into oz2).
They would have to diversify the mobs, and make it that not everything in there is combat related. Have some persecuted refugees in there, hurting for food. Have this crazy hacker guy mumbling to himself and being protected by the refugees because his montly passes on the console keep these people with power from the city authority ( blatant mona lisa overdrive ripoff).
Have some missions available that you give these people food/medication, and they give you things they could scavenge from down there. Could be some new junk rifles, could be a discarded piece of technology. Have some missions being given by the hacker, tough missions that would give you hacker (hacknet) related items.
Make it that the areas don't all look alike, or look like aggy sewers. Have NPCs making deals in hidden chambers. Have the bums living there talking about the legend of the mother-rat ( ala stephen king's story).
Turn the place into something that would be alive, that would be able to make sense. Make it a place where you can get really weird things done ( like an operator having the possibility of sending you to a locked genrep for some barter... or a lot of credits).
You wanna go overboard? Have the batsector being squatted by bums, crazys, wackos and anarchs. Make the outzone and the sewers go alive.
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