View Full Version : KK, the "new" hybrids are still overpowered. Something should be done now.
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 11:22
*casts heat booster 10*
Sorry to my fellow hybrids, but I think this problem should be tackled before it escalates. I do not wanna see another hybrid error. And you never know, maybe KK wll bring back kami soldiers and/or chips. I can't in good conscience stay quiet about this.
The new "kamikaze" hybrids are STILL overpowered. I'm gonna post my setup. I'm not some resist guru like QD or Vet, however this will show even a "weaker" hybrid like my char is still overpowered, let alone the FULLY equipped 5 slotted ultimaed capped DS using hybrids.
IMPS are XP controller 3. PP chip. PSI core. and (duh) Kami chip.
After buffs/imps, con comes out to 55 ATH, 55 Fire, 65 X-ray, 115 energy, 0 poison(not needed). FULL holy spirit outfit.
My base psi level is 95. I use holy shelter, holy def, blessed heal, holy energy halo.
I've PvPed extensively with this hybrid since lomming to it, and i've come to the conclusion their still overpowered. This is mainly due to their heal. Now, in several duels I noticed the overpowering effect of this hybrid. Defense after shelter is pretty decent. But it's the healing effect that overpowers. Whereas the defense of previous hybrids was godly along with the godly healing. And the offense is great.
And that's just duels. Don't even get me started in "real" fighting where the effect of healing can be seen even greater. Running around a small obstacle, ducking somewhere for cover, these little tihngs that give you a few seconds of safety normally don't mean much. But since hybrids have this awesome healing, every precious second of not being shot just means their recovering a large portion of health. Apus, spies, and pes can all be killed easily with this setup. Too easy. Especially apus. o_O Even a lib using PE isn't THAT deadly.
The kami negatives can be easily "bypassed". By ovverspeccing a large amount of energy resist in con, and casting heat 3.
I'm not even capped, and I don't have DS and look at the setup. I'm sure alot of other hybrids will criticsize it, say it's "noobish" or that it can be alot better. Sure, but then that is just proving that they are indeed overpowered.
Now i'm not shouting too crazy about this problem since....
1.Not everyone has kami chip.
2.Their aren't many hybrids like this.
But i'm sure alot more will start popping up. That's why i'm mentioning this now.
I've made this thread for several reasons.
1.To see what other people's view on this is.
2.Because I personally don't feel hybrids can be TRUELY viable without this chip. I know some will disagree. Oh well. And I think it's unfair that only the few select people who got lucky enough to get the chip, are the ones that can be a truly viable hybrid.
3.I want this "problem" to be addressed early. I'm sure everyone would love 'Major' pvp issues to be addressed asap right? Well this issue isn't major YET, but it could be. Maybe it won't, maybe i'm wrong, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging their might be a problem. Am I right or wrong?
4.Any suggestions for fixing the class.
Don't flame please.
O_o
If I think of anything else, I'll add to this thread.
It's a shame really, this hybrid is extremely fun. To me hybrids are "broken" because they are both underpowered and overpowered.
Comments?
meh ???
me bash hybrids with tank... :/
(no kidding dude, i do.. and when i can.. then surely all those who constantly rape me in battle can too ^^^ )
Ive been saying this for quite some time but people are too
bussy shouting "OMG MY HYBRID IS NURFED!" to actually look at
the hybrid we have now. The biggest problem with hybrids
however is the same problem as with PPUs, and could be solved
in one blow: The heal. The blessed and holy heals needs to be
seriously nerfed, I dont care about the shelters and deflectors
really, but the heals are far far too powerfull. They should be
heavily nerfed, something like 50% of what they are now, to get
close to the healing power you have now you should have to
stack sanctum and normal heal. Then we can look into reducing
the hybrid nerf to make them more fun again, because I do like
hybrids. I wouldnt mind having the rezz cast time reduced again
either.
Oh yah that was group heat booster 10 rite SD? hookay thanks.
*Shoves Duct Tape around Shadow's mouth and drags him into a closet where no one can hear his (mumbled) screams*
Move along people, no calls for monk nerfs here....
I don't see why you'd want to nerf em Shadow, I mean, wouldn't you say an APU/PPU combo has a better bang (Potential nerf factor) for the buck?
When I think of "overpowered" I think back to a friendly duel at CRP one day with a bunch of fellow DarK members. Crypo challenged 12 people to take him on.... and won. More than half the people attacking him were tanks, 3 APUs, 2 PEs, and 1 spy (me:D )
I was one of the last to go down, only because I was doing the least damage :rolleyes: but before he killed me, 3 of the tanks were rezzed a second time, fought, and died again. Now that's what I think of when I hear, "Overpowered Hybrid." This was before "The" Nerf, so I could see why, but I can't see a Hybrid with any kind of setup (With the current -30%) surviving more than 4-5 people unless those people REALLY suck.
I don't see anything wrong with that though, what you gain in being able to fight by yourself efficiently, you lose at OP wars, where the pures will pound you into the ground.
Then again, I've only played a noob hybrid monk before the nerf (I was pretty fucking uber for 32 PSI :eek: ) anyways, just my 2 cents :p
totaly agree. if they made heals rof cap at like 30/min it wouldnt be so bad, but the fact that they can just run around and cast holy, or even blessed eal is just too powerful... i used blessed spells on my ppu for the longest time cause i didnt need holy... i laghed at apus in pp shooting me while i ressed a freind, so even with blessed shelter and heal a hybreds too powerful. get rid of the damn things, or nerf heal or shelter.
Yeah hybrid is overpowered, in 1vs1 u gonne get stunned + dmg boosted and getting HL'ed 2 death while u cant harm the hybrid well enough to make him die. (holy buffs & holy heal, even when its not capped its Uber).
And when a Kami Hybrid gets a Psi Combat 3 then he can get very high DMG on his spells ...o_O
well ive seen hybrids lose duels.. but.. not sure if he had kami or not. SD, you're too modest. :-P
But ya, I think they still are overpowered.
Just give them the sledgehammer. Serves them right for trying to make everyone believe they were destroyed by the last nerf.
there is not a problem yet, if one occurs - trust me, the forums will be rampant with reports of it
Ive not seen a decent hybrid since the nerf. Im sticking to that. Show me a hybrid on Uranus that can beat me, and ill agree with ya.
Considering most hybrids take like 150 dmg from a HL.....
and die from a clip of lib...
yes.... thoes are called: morons. with the right imps and setups (which I have on paper) you can take plenty of hits, and with heal on take down any tank, pe, or apu 1vs1. nerf it.
good at 1v1 dead in op fights, leave em.
and yes its the heal that saves monks... but if your going to nerf it..... be VERY carefull.... apus will suffer badly in op fights... lvling will be a LOT harder... and for once i want the ppus to get even better shelters if they nerf heals...
They are definately not dead in OP fights, theyre simply
overshadowed by the supremacy of the pure monks, but they are
still superior to any non-monk class. That says a bit about the
pures.
things were finnaly really good... a pe could beat a tank, a tank could beat a pe, an apu could beat a pe/tank/spy if he attacked fast , accuritly, and hard, but he would lose if he didnt kill them quick... a really well build spy had a chance of beating good apus pes and tanks. Now its screwed again, you cant beat a really good hybred 1vs1. Put things back to how they were please, you had it right, why mess it up?
Just nerf teh heal, NERF TEH HEAL I TELL YOU! WHOS WITH
ME!?!!??!?!?!?!
ok ima go shut up now.
Originally posted by Rade
ok ima go shut up now.
GOOD :D
Im a monk lover, always been one since i canceld my tank and made a apu before the 160 patch (cant aim) :P
Are monks not supposed to be the most deadly class in the game? Don't forget the original story line where they get found and one monk raises a guy into the air and kills him. After that, they were treated with respect.
Maybe KK want them to be the strongest class ?
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Maybe KK want them to be the strongest class ?
Dont be an idiot rince, you usually think before posting. Why not
just make one class and call it the ubermunchkin while we are at
it.
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 12:39
Originally posted by Rade
Ive been saying this for quite some time but people are too
bussy shouting "OMG MY HYBRID IS NURFED!" to actually look at
the hybrid we have now. The biggest problem with hybrids
however is the same problem as with PPUs, and could be solved
in one blow: The heal. The blessed and holy heals needs to be
seriously nerfed, I dont care about the shelters and deflectors
really, but the heals are far far too powerfull. They should be
heavily nerfed, something like 50% of what they are now, to get
close to the healing power you have now you should have to
stack sanctum and normal heal. Then we can look into reducing
the hybrid nerf to make them more fun again, because I do like
hybrids. I wouldnt mind having the rezz cast time reduced again
either.
That's a possible solution. But I don't want ppus to he overnerfed.
Originally posted by Rade
Oh yah that was group heat booster 10 rite SD? hookay thanks.
:p
Originally posted by Nvidia
*Shoves Duct Tape around Shadow's mouth and drags him into a closet where no one can hear his (mumbled) screams*
Move along people, no calls for monk nerfs here....
Monks are far from being balanced. I will continue to campaign until I finally feel they are balanced against the other classes.
Originally posted by Nvidia
I don't see why you'd want to nerf em Shadow, I mean, wouldn't you say an APU/PPU combo has a better bang (Potential nerf factor) for the buck?
huh? You're comparing 2 people to 1. Of course an apu/ppu team(which already is overpowered, I mean the team not the individuals) will beat any other ONE class.
Originally posted by Nvidia
When I think of "overpowered" I think back to a friendly duel at CRP one day with a bunch of fellow DarK members. Crypo challenged 12 people to take him on.... and won. More than half the people attacking him were tanks, 3 APUs, 2 PEs, and 1 spy (me:D )
I was one of the last to go down, only because I was doing the least damage :rolleyes: but before he killed me, 3 of the tanks were rezzed a second time, fought, and died again. Now that's what I think of when I hear, "Overpowered Hybrid." This was before "The" Nerf, so I could see why, but I can't see a Hybrid with any kind of setup (With the current -30%) surviving more than 4-5 people unless those people REALLY suck.
A class doesn't have to survive against an army to be overpowered. Just because this hybrid isn't as overpowered as the previous, doesn't mean it's not overpowered at all.
Btw, the other day I beat 2 apus at the same time. I've also survived agianst 3 people and killed one and almost killed the other.
Once again, it's all about the heal. Also remember I have full run/casting in my setup, unlike the hybrids of "old".
Originally posted by Nvidia
I don't see anything wrong with that though, what you gain in being able to fight by yourself efficiently, you lose at OP wars, where the pures will pound you into the ground.
Wrong. A hybrid is still incredibly useful in op wars. Do you know my hybrid has capped mana, can cast level 3 buffs(and shields), heal VERY well, and cast holy antibuff? If that's not useful, I don't know what is. You need to compare the hybrid as a class in itself. You keep saying "apu/ppu" is better. THat makes no sense. Who DOESN'T lose importance in an op fight? What other classes can match the importance of apu/ppu? NONE. So why use that arguement to say that the hybrid is ok?
Originally posted by Nvidia
Then again, I've only played a noob hybrid monk before the nerf (I was pretty fucking uber for 32 PSI :eek: ) anyways, just my 2 cents :p
:eek:
Originally posted by VetteroX
totaly agree. if they made heals rof cap at like 30/min it wouldnt be so bad, but the fact that they can just run around and cast holy, or even blessed eal is just too powerful... i used blessed spells on my ppu for the longest time cause i didnt need holy... i laghed at apus in pp shooting me while i ressed a freind, so even with blessed shelter and heal a hybreds too powerful. get rid of the damn things, or nerf heal or shelter.
30/min won't be a big enough change.
Btw, I don't think it's ok to say "get rid of the damn things" hehe. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if KK "removed" pistol PEs. Right? :p
Originally posted by Sefran
(holy buffs & holy heal, even when its not capped its Uber).
Exactly.
Originally posted by Scikar
Just give them the sledgehammer. Serves them right for trying to make everyone believe they were destroyed by the last nerf.
:lol:
Come now Scikar, are you really advocating sledgehammer solution? Don't you want KK to get away from that approach?
Originally posted by greploco
there is not a problem yet, if one occurs - trust me, the forums will be rampant with reports of it
Because their aren't enough hybrids yet. The point is trying to solve the problem before it becomes a problem.
When hybrids were nerfed, were pures boosted? No. Just that ALOT more people started to play them, and THEIR problems suddenly were shown in the light.
Similarly, let's try to "fix" this before it gets out of hand. It's bad enough that apus/ppus are overimportant and too needed, do you want to add overpowered hybrids to that list? O_O
Originally posted by L0KI
Ive not seen a decent hybrid since the nerf. Im sticking to that. Show me a hybrid on Uranus that can beat me, and ill agree with ya.
Considering most hybrids take like 150 dmg from a HL.....
and die from a clip of lib...
150 dmg?
I take like 30-80. 80 is like a lucky REALLY high random damage hit.
And one clip of lib? Yea ok. lol
Originally posted by deac
good at 1v1 dead in op fights, leave em.
How are they dead in op fights? Please explain that. How does a hybrid magically become useless in an op fight? Or do you mean that apu/ppu is better? Try seeing the hybrid as a seperate class in itself. If you think hybrid is useless in op fight, then you must feel all other classes are useless in op fights. I'll tell you this, my hybrid is more useful than a tank in an op fight. IMO. :p
Originally posted by Rade
They are definately not dead in OP fights, theyre simply
overshadowed by the supremacy of the pure monks, but they are
still superior to any non-monk class.
Exactly. sheesh
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Maybe KK want them to be the strongest class ?
PLEASE tell me you're joking. Please?
Maybe KK should introduce spell disruption in this game. Make it based on some formula or something. Maybe a chance to disrupt the spell if hit them while they are casting a long spell?
Or maybe a small chance of completely removing the heal on someone when you shoot them.
I don't know. Something like that. Maybe that's not a good idea.
But something should be done IMO.
Also, one last comment that apus and ppus won't like. I feel once again that perhaps making all monks hybrids then fully focusing on balancing that ONE class(instead of 3 classes) is better. I mean, I was ppuing someone while they were fighting mobs. I was keeping them alive with buffs and heals. It wasn't as great as a ppu, but it was good. Now in PvP I did make a noticable difference, but nowhere near the level of a PPU.
Maybe PPUs/Apus should simply be hybrids who either
1.Focus a bit more on their ppu side.
2.Focus more on PPU teamplay during a team battle. Like instead of attacking and buffing, they just focus on protecting their team with their "balanced" buffs. And someone could be "apu" by just focusing on attacking. But since they can do both, there's no "Excuse" to overpower either role and say "but we're pure XXX we have to be this strong".
its a game... u cant have one class be the uber class and all others just accept it. BTW, I think its dumb that a monk can stand up to someone using a gun anyway... a weapon and a monks powers are both products of the mind, and a gun is eaier to make, therefor gunsmiths i think would be able to make guns that would own monks.... and if u wanna get technical spies (gun builders got the same int cap as monks, and unlike monks, can cap int with moderate work.
Originally posted by Rade
Just nerf teh heal, NERF TEH HEAL I TELL YOU! WHOS WITH
ME!?!!??!?!?!?!
ok ima go shut up now.
huh, a monk nerf? ok
NERF THE HEALS!
Originally posted by Rade
Dont be an idiot rince, you usually think before posting. Why not
just make one class and call it the ubermunchkin while we are at
it.
Are you running on 320X280 where u have to write really short lines just so u can see what u type or do u have a tendency to over use the enter button??
Originally posted by Candaman
Are you running on 320X280 where u have to write really short lines just so u can see what u type or do u have a tendency to over use the enter button??
It's for easier reading mk?
Rade: Heal is the only thing that stops us dieing in 1v1. We're a 100% passive charactor. Our heal should do as much inverse damage as a spell of the same TL (ie: Energy beam) does for a APU. PPU's dont need nerfing, we prooved that lastnight in Pepper Park. I already know 10-15 people who've deleted their PPU because of ressurection, I'm sure theres more, because now they believe their value in an op war is worthless. The rest of us PPU's dont need any more nerfing because now there aren't as many our effects are unique.
huh? You're comparing 2 people to 1. Of course an apu/ppu team(which already is overpowered, I mean the team not the individuals) will beat any other ONE class.
A PPU and any one of any class (yes including a spy) will beat any team upto maybe 5v5 who dont have a PPU if the spy knows what they're doing. Thats how its meant to be. If all five concentrated fire on the PPU, anything but a good PPU would die. But they go after the spy.
PPU's can't attack. BEAR THAT IN MIND. CANT. DONT DO SUFFICENT DAMAGE. Their heal is one of the few good toys they've got. We can't really ressurect in op wars against good opposition. We can't ress in MC5, we can only just outheal the new faction guards. If you nerf heal MC5 will be impossible for everybody. Period.
Op wars and zone wars are fun now.
MayhemMike
12-12-03, 13:46
Shadow Dancer, I didn't bother reading any of the other replys to this thread because they are just probally flames on you. I saw you pking yesterday.. You didn't get more than 3 feet from PP1 Zone line... [edited for violation of the forum rules]
Originally posted by MayhemMike
Shadow Dancer, I didn't bother reading any of the other replys to this thread because they are just probally flames on you. I saw you pking yesterday.. You didn't get more than 3 feet from PP1 Zone line... [edited for consistency].
rofl
sure nerf the heal the only thing a pure ppu has left for power. take everything away from ppu they dont need it lol. you people have such stupid siguestions it makes me sick.
Everyone uses the argument against nerfing PPUs that doing certain dungeons will be impossible... MC5 being the prime example. The reason those places are so hard is because KK said to themself "hm... players are killing high level mobs too easy, lets make a hard place." If they nerf PPUs enough, the high level places will become easier.
... I think that's the 5th time I've said that. :mad:
and.. Flyl, you said heal should heal as much as energy beam? It heals more... added to the fact that you have shelters means that 5 people with energy beam still wont equal your heal. If you're moving, 10 people. How is that fair?
A PPU and any one of any class (yes including a spy) will beat any team upto maybe 5v5 who dont have a PPU if the spy knows what they're doing. Thats how its meant to be. If all five concentrated fire on the PPU, anything but a good PPU would die. But they go after the spy.
No... 1-2 APUs would beat that team. Kill the spy because hes the one doing damage. Once he's down, the PPU has two choices: run or rez. If he rez's the spy. 2 APUs will take him down in no time. If he runs, then he runs. Nothing they can really do about it.
Edit: Oops, forgot to talk about targetting a PPU. No. You waste time shooting something that refuses to die, while a stinky spy slowly picks off your entire team one by one.5v2 would be worse than 2v2, because if 5 people chased after a PPU, they'd end up losing their locks and shooting eachother more than the PPU.
My idea... make heals like stealth, but more so. If you stand still, you get decent heal, if you crouch, you get full power heal (like now), if you run, your heal gets cut down in half (maybe less?). Therefore levelling isn't affected because you can always stand still or run to cover and get healed again, and in PvP where everyone is moving, heals are a lot worse.:angel:
Devils Grace
12-12-03, 14:55
only thing that needs removel maybe is the para
ppu's are made to be like that (suport char)
dificult to kill, very
now the para takes longer to cast but now it actually glues u to the fucking ground no way u can move, and that makes the ppu agressive.
so by removing completly the para its all about skill
urs to hit and duck, enemy that has to do the same, and ppus that have to hit their mates with a heal in the midle of other players...........now thats skill
the rezz
i went in pp last night and i actually tasted fear, that i didnt felt in many time... fear of dieng.... so i kinda like it the way it is.
of course like other things in the world, there are negative efects...but who cares
hybrids... they are still pretyy good, but easier to kill even with holy heal, u just need to team up, and that is all about this game...team work
solo games are single player games.......
I said that in some other thread too, i already met hybrids i had no chance to beat. Well im a spy but i got good resists and use shelter and a dmg capped disruptor. He holy parashocked me, then damageboosted me, then took half my health with 3 or 4 holy enr halos. While my gun did shit dmg to him that he could outheal easily.
He also admitted it was a rather crappy setup, he just started to work on that setup. o_O
I`ve seen this problem coming up when i saw the first monks using kami chips to cap their apu spells and be abled to cast tl 25 shelter and a tl 3 heal to hunt fire mobs easier. Then the first ppl started talking about it, now theyre coming up again.
Yes theyre very viable again. Actually i dont think the holy heal nerf would balance them cause they still can cast holy parashock and db. Also its a nerf that would hit ppus too. But i say give it a try, holy heal IS too strong imo.
Wow...and now people want to nerf heal...ive been syaing it for some time a few weeks ago, but noooooo, no one listened.
Heres what i think.
Boost Shelters and Deflectors, do a sledge hammer nerf on all heals.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
How are they dead in op fights? Please explain that. How does a hybrid magically become useless in an op fight? Or do you mean that apu/ppu is better? Try seeing the hybrid as a seperate class in itself. If you think hybrid is useless in op fight, then you must feel all other classes are useless in op fights. I'll tell you this, my hybrid is more useful than a tank in an op fight. IMO. :p
why yes i do belive they are :P
more or less... for a op fight you need the following... spy or 2 for scouting if the op is like tezla then a few tanks for aoe or just forget it and bring all monks :D
hmm yes and remove the heal from the ppu and you remove the ppu class... ITS OUR MAIN THING, WE HEAL PPL.
ghandisfury
12-12-03, 16:21
Shadow, I would like to duel you with ghandi tonight if you're available. My hybrid sucked bad, so I can't agree or disagree with them being overpowered. However, I do know one thing, and that's that hybrids are *nothing* compaired to what they used to be. I'll need to check into this before I can comment any further.:)
SnotNosedBrat
12-12-03, 16:26
holy lightning > hybrids
seriously a good capped hl using apu can drop hybrids before they can get a shot off, and can out damage their heals even through shelters etc.
a tank can kill a hybrid it just takes time
fact is when fighting a hybrid all you have to do is lay on the damage, make them spend their time healing/casting antidote so they cant dboost/attack.
lol.... hybrids have to be careful also... Someone told me about this, take for example their fighting an apu with a capped antibuff (roughly about 3-4 secs). All the apu has to do to antibuff the hybrid and hopefully rape him with a good spell. Hybrid will have to worry about getting their shelter back up and I have seen this happened twice in PP, hybrids ran like sreaming school girls to the zone after a boy band concert. So hybrids one on one dunno about them being overpowered. I'll try out my hybrid setup quite soon if i can be bothered but using ur brain and know the weakness of the enemy you may survive ur "dreaded" encounter with a hybrid :p
Wrong, Holy Lightning does squat to hybrids. A good hybrid has a good energy/fire resist and if he's using the PP resistor chip, his resists won't be so negative than people think.
Poison. If you've seen hybrids resists or actually think about it, that's what they're weak againts because they use Fire 3 resist.
Of course, you need to have a PPU glued to your ass otherwise you'd be killed before you get enough stacks on them.
The Anti-poison sanctum takes time to remove all the stacks. If you got enought stacks on him, the poison will ding and he'll take damage on it.
// Wannabe
MjukisDjur
12-12-03, 16:53
dont use disruptor on any monk... :P
ever
Originally posted by MjukisDjur
dont use disruptor on any monk... :P
ever
Normal Apus die faster to my disruptor than to my PE. A good monks got nice pierce/force resists. The gun doesnt matter that much. It only does with hybrids cause those need to use exp psi controller 3. But even then if they also put in a pp chip and sacrife most transport, theyre not very weak to pierce/force anymore.
Anyway im not gonna carry around 2 rare guns just to take out hybrids. I only do that in opwars or NF. :)
What should have been impossible is really possible, i just fightet such a kamihybrid :eek:
Its like before the Hybridnerf, heal at 400% , shelter at 350%, ebeam at 450%. You dont need that good resists anymore with such PPU Spells, and the needed adequate resists are still possible.
For comparison, a normal Hybrid like me has heal at 250%, shelter at 230% and ebeam at 280% and is already very viable.
Originally posted by mehirc
What should have been impossible is really possible, i just fightet such a kamihybrid :eek:
Its like before the Hybridnerf, heal at 400% , shelter at 350%, ebeam at 450%. You dont need that good resists anymore with such PPU Spells, and the needed adequate resists are still possible.
For comparison, a normal Hybrid like me has heal at 250%, shelter at 230% and ebeam at 280% and is already very viable.
Exactly, non-kami hybrids are very viable which you, max twilight
and some others have proved, kami hybrids is pushing it to the
old levels.
SnotNosedBrat
12-12-03, 17:37
false about the sanctum
poison casts fast enough
2 apus can kill fully buffed ppu with a sanctum up simply poison beaming him, this is also with him casting holy heal
3 apus with poiison=dead ppu, even if hes casting antidote
a lone apu fighting a hybrid has no time to antibuff, you'll get dboosted and hit with hl/beam/halo and be dead
poison/hl will kill them, ive done it plenty of times
poison is more of a nuisance, to make them cast antidote, if you keep casting it on them even with a sanctum up theyll be taking some damage, meaning they have to heal.
like i said - make them use their ppu shit and not attack
as for whoever said their hybrid takes 10 hl's, for a capped holy lightning thats what? like 3 seconds or something (i don't have nc on this comp and can't go check)
my point is not to start people whining about how elite they are and how they could withstand an apu hitting them, its simply to state that hybrids are fine as they are.
just like any other class there are ways to kill them. simply because your character or whatever can't kill them alone doesn't make them imbalanced.
Check out this one. 100/61 rank!!! Freeejumper is an UBER hybrid, owns me completely when I dueled him/her (I'm 64/60 APU). He/she takes much less damage than me cos of shelters and healing, and is able to do more damage than I can because of dmg boost and holy lightning, and the new stronger holy para effect is a killer and makes it way hard to aim. Can't cast anti buff cos it costs all my mana and I'll just end up getting shot while I cast it. None of my spells are as effective against the hybrid as theirs is against mine. Very hard to fight and win.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/aje/neocron/hybrid.jpg
i have a suggestion, delet the monk class and replace the class with something more relistic. something that wont cause problems, cause unbalencnesss. or take away APU spells, replace with guns so it takes skill to dmg someone get me yo
omg ......
Its all starting again.
Now all the ppl start crieng again nerf the hybrids....
and rade nerfing the heal is totally stupid idea its everything good as it is
Stop blaming and for everyone saying overpowerd i could kill a cat ! :mad:
So i stop this shit please
and Mod: close plz
i hate all those flaming threads.... :mad:
it will always go on that someone wants other classes to be nerfed...
Just think when the monks are totally nerfed and shit they need another scapegoat....
Next thread will be called omg NERF THE PE HES OVERPOwerd...
But just think according to the story MONKS should be very strong as someone here alreaedy says that in the story a monk just pushes someone into the air and let him explode...
So stop this shit please !
[edited for violation of the forum rules] monk is the only class eveyone has wanted nerfed for ages.
Because their were always a bit stronger than other classes but thats not wrong just read the story.
And yes there some real good hybrids, but it extremely expensive to have one psi boosters cost alot and u need like everyspell 3+ slots to be good and thats really expensiv.
You need to use pierce weapons against hybrids :D thats what does dmg most, cause there not a real good way to get pierce resists without lowering the other resists alot.
And if u work hard and alot and get extremly expensiv stuff and many rare stuff why shouldnt you be better than others ?
So its not impossible to kill a hybrid in 1vs1 just be good an use the right weapons.
‡ Stormlord ‡
12-12-03, 17:52
hmm, its so fucking funny about the hybrids...
...maybe its time for a ressurection...
See you in hell!
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Are monks not supposed to be the most deadly class in the game? Don't forget the original story line where they get found and one monk raises a guy into the air and kills him. After that, they were treated with respect.
Maybe KK want them to be the strongest class ?
You know what, I would love the monk to be the strongest class, AS LONG AS:
They were only allowed in Crahn Sect
Plaza and Via was out of bounds to them, completely... KOS to copbot stylee.
The general populace was told to hate and fear the monks, making most factions (definitely all the city factions) enemy to Crahn.
Then I wouldn't mind Monks being the most powerful class.
What really REALLY pisses me off about these hybrids is that the only way to become one is to either be massively rich yourself, or have hugely influential friends who are very rich and generous. Try and find an APU Kami and DS (especially after Rezz nerf) now. Good luck.
Originally posted by MayhemMike
Shadow Dancer, I didn't bother reading any of the other replys to this thread because they are just probally flames on you. I saw you pking yesterday.. You didn't get more than 3 feet from PP1 Zone line... [edited for consistency].
exactly...and now stfu sd
What the hell does it matter how well SD performed as a Hybrid in one particular PKing session? His opinion is just as valid as if he was "t3h ub4r" hybrid.
MayhemMike
12-12-03, 18:38
Hybrid is still uber leet unless they have ppu/apu. I went on a pking session on MeGaMaN that i lomed to hybrid with a bit.. Megaman was my ppu on saturn... Hes at about 91psi with no ds/kami.. I could outheal 2 PEs. 1 APU and 1 Spy... I would get to about 2 more shots untill he would die on the spy before he would stealth, i killed the apu, i would get close to killing the PEs before they would stealth... nibs. Those guys were mocks. 2 libs 1 pe 1 apu useing hl/poison. Mocks on you guys.
it says alot... i met his hybrid 2 times and both times he ran from my tank or shot 2 times and zoned back..
IF he's so uber that he needs nerfing why the heck does he act like that then ?
running around a mountain at crp like 5 mins till he killed my unbuffed tank...standing at the zone line of pp for 20 secs then zoning back with 20 hp....
and such a person writes a thread to nerf hybrids... :rolleyes:
anyway hybrids are fine...you should look at pures..
.cy
aggress with .cyl0n
:lol:
MayhemMike
12-12-03, 18:51
cookies anyone?
yes plz give me one :o
thanks :lol:
MayhemMike
12-12-03, 19:02
no cookie for u :p :angel:
-=Blasehase=-
12-12-03, 19:08
i fight against a hybrid like this in NF
1 fight i win, 1 fight he win...
so i dont think they r overpowered
hes MORE balanced that a team with apu&ppu
Freeejumper
12-12-03, 19:16
Originally posted by TheEnemy
Check out this one. 100/61 rank!!! Freeejumper is an UBER hybrid, owns me completely when I dueled him/her (I'm 64/60 APU). He/she takes much less damage than me cos of shelters and healing, and is able to do more damage than I can because of dmg boost and holy lightning, and the new stronger holy para effect is a killer and makes it way hard to aim. Can't cast anti buff cos it costs all my mana and I'll just end up getting shot while I cast it. None of my spells are as effective against the hybrid as theirs is against mine. Very hard to fight and win.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/aje/neocron/hybrid.jpg
well i can get my rank higher than 100 ^^ but i dont think the hybrids are overpowerd , cuz a apu if he plays good, he is able to kill me ... lore killed me many times and as blasehase said if you say the hybrids are overpowerd look at the apu / ppu teams ...
btw i m not using a hl ! and i didnt use a a para cuz the cast rate is much to low for a hybrid ....
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
*casts heat booster 10*
Sorry to my fellow hybrids, but I think this problem should be tackled before it escalates. I do not wanna see another hybrid error. And you never know, maybe KK wll bring back kami soldiers and/or chips. I can't in good conscience stay quiet about this.
The new "kamikaze" hybrids are STILL overpowered. I'm gonna post my setup. I'm not some resist guru like QD or Vet, however this will show even a "weaker" hybrid like my char is still overpowered, let alone the FULLY equipped 5 slotted ultimaed capped DS using hybrids.
IMPS are XP controller 3. PP chip. PSI core. and (duh) Kami chip.
After buffs/imps, con comes out to 55 ATH, 55 Fire, 65 X-ray, 115 energy, 0 poison(not needed). FULL holy spirit outfit.
My base psi level is 95. I use holy shelter, holy def, blessed heal, holy energy halo.
I've PvPed extensively with this hybrid since lomming to it, and i've come to the conclusion their still overpowered. This is mainly due to their heal. Now, in several duels I noticed the overpowering effect of this hybrid. Defense after shelter is pretty decent. But it's the healing effect that overpowers. Whereas the defense of previous hybrids was godly along with the godly healing. And the offense is great.
And that's just duels. Don't even get me started in "real" fighting where the effect of healing can be seen even greater. Running around a small obstacle, ducking somewhere for cover, these little tihngs that give you a few seconds of safety normally don't mean much. But since hybrids have this awesome healing, every precious second of not being shot just means their recovering a large portion of health. Apus, spies, and pes can all be killed easily with this setup. Too easy. Especially apus. o_O Even a lib using PE isn't THAT deadly.
The kami negatives can be easily "bypassed". By ovverspeccing a large amount of energy resist in con, and casting heat 3.
I'm not even capped, and I don't have DS and look at the setup. I'm sure alot of other hybrids will criticsize it, say it's "noobish" or that it can be alot better. Sure, but then that is just proving that they are indeed overpowered.
Now i'm not shouting too crazy about this problem since....
1.Not everyone has kami chip.
2.Their aren't many hybrids like this.
But i'm sure alot more will start popping up. That's why i'm mentioning this now.
I've made this thread for several reasons.
1.To see what other people's view on this is.
2.Because I personally don't feel hybrids can be TRUELY viable without this chip. I know some will disagree. Oh well. And I think it's unfair that only the few select people who got lucky enough to get the chip, are the ones that can be a truly viable hybrid.
3.I want this "problem" to be addressed early. I'm sure everyone would love 'Major' pvp issues to be addressed asap right? Well this issue isn't major YET, but it could be. Maybe it won't, maybe i'm wrong, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging their might be a problem. Am I right or wrong?
4.Any suggestions for fixing the class.
Don't flame please.
O_o
If I think of anything else, I'll add to this thread.
It's a shame really, this hybrid is extremely fun. To me hybrids are "broken" because they are both underpowered and overpowered.
Comments?
I don't believe this !st you says nerf hybridand u get your wish the hammered, then u say you did want them nerfing that much and NOW just as you and a FEW others find a reasonable setup you want them nerfing again FFS leave hybrids alone they have been nerfed enough already, they are not god like any more. I still think there nerfed to much :/
Freeejumper
12-12-03, 20:21
http://mitglied.lycos.de/freeejumper/shot0013.JPG
yeah hybrids are nerfed enough .... look at my pe she got the same rezz freq as my hybrid ^^
i mean the pe there not my monk ^^ ( i played them both)
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 20:48
Originally posted by VetteroX
its a game... u cant have one class be the uber class and all others just accept it.
I agree, but that doesn't mean we should remove a class as you suggest.
Originally posted by VetteroX
BTW, I think its dumb that a monk can stand up to someone using a gun anyway... a weapon and a monks powers are both products of the mind, and a gun is eaier to make, therefor gunsmiths i think would be able to make guns that would own monks.....
Are you serious vet? O_o
Originally posted by Flyl
Rade: Heal is the only thing that stops us dieing in 1v1. We're a 100% passive charactor. Our heal should do as much inverse damage as a spell of the same TL (ie: Energy beam) does for a APU. PPU's dont need nerfing, we prooved that lastnight in Pepper Park. I already know 10-15 people who've deleted their PPU because of ressurection, I'm sure theres more, because now they believe their value in an op war is worthless. The rest of us PPU's dont need any more nerfing because now there aren't as many our effects are unique.
That's why i'm not sure heal should be nerfed, because it would hurt ppus.
Originally posted by Flyl
A PPU and any one of any class (yes including a spy) will beat any team upto maybe 5v5 who dont have a PPU if the spy knows what they're doing.
You may think that's ok, but I don't. That reeks of imbalance.
Originally posted by MayhemMike
Shadow Dancer, I didn't bother reading any of the other replys to this thread because they are just probally flames on you. I saw you pking yesterday.. You didn't get more than 3 feet from PP1 Zone line... Fucking no0b.
Pking? I was zoning, ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE in the pepper park fight. Several times I got my opponents to low health and they either STEALTHED away or ran away and came back with ppu buffs and a PPU to parashock me. I only started staying near the zoneline when the enemy PPU came and started parashocking me.
:rolleyes:
Btw this isn't a damn nerf PPU thread, this is about hybrids.
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
holy lightning > hybrids
seriously a good capped hl using apu can drop hybrids before they can get a shot off, and can out damage their heals even through shelters etc.
a tank can kill a hybrid it just takes time
fact is when fighting a hybrid all you have to do is lay on the damage, make them spend their time healing/casting antidote so they cant dboost/attack.
Oh my god. Have you even fought a semi-decent hybrid yet?
You sound like one of those people who suggest piercing against a PPU.
Originally posted by mehirc
What should have been impossible is really possible, i just fightet such a kamihybrid :eek:
Its like before the Hybridnerf, heal at 400% , shelter at 350%, ebeam at 450%. You dont need that good resists anymore with such PPU Spells, and the needed adequate resists are still possible.
For comparison, a normal Hybrid like me has heal at 250%, shelter at 230% and ebeam at 280% and is already very viable.
Sounds like your offense is horrible though. o_O How much do you do with damage boot?
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
false about the sanctum
poison casts fast enough
2 apus can kill fully buffed ppu with a sanctum up simply poison beaming him, this is also with him casting holy heal
3 apus with poiison=dead ppu, even if hes casting antidote
a lone apu fighting a hybrid has no time to antibuff, you'll get dboosted and hit with hl/beam/halo and be dead
poison/hl will kill them, ive done it plenty of times
poison is more of a nuisance, to make them cast antidote, if you keep casting it on them even with a sanctum up theyll be taking some damage, meaning they have to heal.
like i said - make them use their ppu shit and not attack
as for whoever said their hybrid takes 10 hl's, for a capped holy lightning thats what? like 3 seconds or something (i don't have nc on this comp and can't go check)
my point is not to start people whining about how elite they are and how they could withstand an apu hitting them, its simply to state that hybrids are fine as they are.
just like any other class there are ways to kill them. simply because your character or whatever can't kill them alone doesn't make them imbalanced.
O_o O_o O_o O_o O_o O_o O_o O_o O_o
Originally posted by Darken
So its not impossible to kill a hybrid in 1vs1 just be good an use the right weapons.
Even if they CAN be beaten 1v1, that doesn't mean their not overpowered.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
exactly...and now stfu sd
Thanks for your constructive comment. Aren't you supposed to be AFK in plaza 1 while you wait for your PPU to get online so you can go out? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
it says alot... i met his hybrid 2 times and both times he ran from my tank or shot 2 times and zoned back..
roflmao are you serious? When you were ALONE I stayed and fought until I got you to low health and you RAN. Then you came back and mysteroiusly had a holy shelter on you.
Then I mysteriously got parashocked. That's when I started zoning back. Because it was you, nemesis2k, and flyl. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
running around a mountain at crp like 5 mins till he killed my unbuffed tank...standing at the zone line of pp for 20 secs then zoning back with 20 hp....
5 mins? It was barely a minute. And yea I tend to have 20 HP when I get damaged boosted, HL, parashocked, and cs blasted all at the same time. But you forget to mention those little facts right?
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
and such a person writes a thread to nerf hybrids... :rolleyes:
Yup.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
anyway hybrids are fine...you should look at pures..
.cy
Oh look, cyl0n is saying overpowered hybrid is not really overpowered. SURPRISE!
Then he shifts the blame to another class. SURPRISE!
:rolleyes:
This is typical Pepper Park bullshit talk. Hey Flyl you should be on my side. You said you hated when people called you lame in PvP for whatever stupid reason. Didn't it annoy you when Casius called you lame?
So suddenly i'm lame for zoning when it's 3v1 and sometimes a TS guard too? Puh leeze.
Originally posted by Darken
aggress with .cyl0n
:lol:
You "aggress" with cyl0n? Could that be because you're also going to lom to a kami hybrid, and cyl0n is now a hybrid as well?
Originally posted by Shakari
I don't believe this !st you says nerf hybridand u get your wish the hammered, then u say you did want them nerfing that much and NOW just as you and a FEW others find a reasonable setup you want them nerfing again FFS leave hybrids alone they have been nerfed enough already, they are not god like any more. I still think there nerfed to much :/
What don't you people understand? AN OVERPOWERED CLASS NEEDS TO BE TONED DOWN NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES IT HAS BEEN NERFED!
Tihs isn't a "reasonable" setup, it's an overpowered one.
Now Mike, Cylon, and all those other people that always post constructive comments ( :rolleyes: ), if you call me a noob, a skill-less twat, and all sorts of comments, then you're just proving how overpowered hybrids are.
If a skill-less "noob" like me can use this setup AND NOT LOSE A 1v1 YET SINCE LOMMING, then that means hybrids are overpowered doesn't it?
I've dueled countless people in neofrag and outside to show them the setup, and I haven't lost yet.
So you can flame my skill all you want, just remember, if I supposedly don't have skill and can do this good..........imagine someone with "skillz".
Thanks. Hey Cyl0n, here's a tip. Try and learn from your mistakes. Do you want another sledgehammer on hybrids? No? Then start putting in some damn constructive input and stop with the silly flame and denial of reality. Thanks.
The problem is too many of you point out bad hybreds and say they arent overpowered. What the internet has shown me is that most people are very bad at logic and reasoning, which is all thats needed to make good chars, But eventually, as they bumble along, they get good, and like with pes, which most people sucked at, eventually enough people figure out how to do em well, and some jack ass has to post a good setup that everyone copeis.
The same thing will happen with hybreds. There are a handful of people in this game, including me who are extremely good at building chars. Its not hard, it just takes a little planning and logical thinking... "what are my options for implants?" "what attacks must I resist?" "how much firepower do I need?" "how do I balance body health vs resists and ath?" etc wtc. but most people cant seem to do it.
However, some can, and some of thoes people will make good hybreds. These hybreds will go around owning people, and one of these people will tell the masses how to make a hybred... and then the damn hybred problem starts all over again.
I dont wanna hear the BS that an apu and ppu can take down a hybred.... yeah, of course they can, who the hell cares? the problem is, if a GOOD (for god sake, remeber this word, GOIOOOOOOOOODDDDD!!!) hybred engages several chars who dont have a ppu, chances are he will win, and this is bullshit.... no single char should be that strong.
If you want a char that can fight heal and shelter, its the PE, and thats all there should be. Yes I like to hunt alone, so I play a pe damnit. If you want a char with huge firepower, then you can be an apu, but you proably will need help from another char.... thats called balance.
Hybreds are unbalanced. being able to use even a capped energy halo (and maybe energy beam) with damabe boost and shelters and heals and level 3 buffs is just too powerful. Ive had this hybred discussion many times before, and some people just wont be convinced, but I hope KK will be.
Ya know, I got a DS on pluto, and some DS parts on saturn and a 100 psi apu monk. I Could make one of these new hybreds on either server, and show you people first hand just how unbalanced they can be. Once you get smacked around by someone who can build a hybred, you will be back here whinging that they need a nerf.
i dont play my monk anymore SD and you zoned all the fuckin time.......mr overpowerd :rolleyes:
YES PURES ARE OVERPOWERD... STILL
and they are ALOT more overpowerd than a hybrid imo
oh SD my tank can parashock and HL ?
woah i didnt even know my h4x were that good :rolleyes:
.cy
/e to your tip...YOU and several other ppl brought us monk o cron... home of the overpowerd monks.. and YOU want to give ME a tip ?
are you fucking joking dude ?
you should do us monks a big favor and stop posting in this forum... thanks
/2nd e... and SD wtf do you mean with suprise that i say hybrids arent overpowerd ?
i NEVER said the old hybrid wasnt overpowerd... ok ? thxbye
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:03
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i dont play my monk anymore SD and you zoned all the fuckin time.......mr overpowerd :rolleyes:
Yea I zoned, I can't fight against an apu/ppu/tank by myself. I guess that means i'm not overpowered. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
YES PURES ARE OVERPOWERD... STILL
and they are ALOT more overpowerd than a hybrid imo
:lol:
Whatever man.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
oh SD my tank can parashock and HL ?
woah i didnt even know my h4x were that good :rolleyes:
roflmao
I meant nemesis and Flyl.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
/e to your tip...YOU and several other ppl brought us monk o cron... home of the overpowerd monks.. and YOU want to give ME a tip ?
are you fucking joking dude ?
you should do us monks a big favor and stop posting in this forum... thanks
I didn't make pure monks, KK did.
Pure monks weren't boosted when hybrids were nerfed. So if hybrids weren't nerfed that would have simply DELAYED the rise of pure monks. And that would mean that we would have apu/ppu/AND hybrid as a problem now, instead of just 2.
Why don't you do us a favor and quit the game since you're so horribly biased you can't even think straight?
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
/2nd e... and SD wtf do you mean with suprise that i say hybrids arent overpowerd ?
i NEVER said the old hybrid wasnt overpowerd... ok ? thxbye
Yes you did, back when you were one of those hybrids.
The only hybrid that admitted to me that hybrids were overpowered back then was CryptoChronic.
KK brought pures in because ppl like YOU cried all the time and wanted em nerfed to hell instead of balancing em...
if they would have balanced em we wouldnt have the prob of monkocron now...thanks again
oh and how am i biased ?
show me one post from the overpowerd hybrid time where i said they're balanced ...
stop talkin BS shad
.cy
Uh, sorry but hybrids were balanced, not nerfed to hell. They are
still more than valid. Its just that the pures were brought into
play and turned out to be fucking overpowered.
**edit: altho imo the hybrid nerf is really stupid, they should have
chosen another means instead of the old tired "pistols gives
minuses to rifles, apu gives minus to ppu, h-c gives minus to m-c"
sheesh. It makes no sense and just punishes peopel who want
to make fun chars that can do more than one thing.
Freeejumper
12-12-03, 21:13
just bring back apu ppu epu and the old spells :)
Cyl0n hybrids have never been truly nerfed. The current situation shows that. You say if KK had balanced hybrids we wouldn't have monkacron now? How is that possible? Because to make hybrids truly balanced, we would have had to nerf them by even more than what we already did. And remeber who cried "OMG MY CLASS IS DEAD!!!!" after the hybrid nerf?
As far as I can see a non-kami hybrid is viable and balanced. A kami hybrid becomes overpowered. Therefore the only reasonable solution which appears is to put a negative to ppu on the apu kami chip. It makes sense anyway, the kami chips are supposed to drive you into a berserk rage where you don't care about defence right? So why can you still cast holy shelter, holy deflector, holy heal, holy antidote with a kami chip in?
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:18
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
KK brought pures in because ppl like YOU cried all the time and wanted em nerfed to hell instead of balancing em...
Wrong. I wasn't even complaining about hybrids yet when they introduced the patch to reward specialization in monks.
I was apu for a good while before I started campaigning against hybrids.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
if they would have balanced em we wouldnt have the prob of monkocron now...thanks again
Um no, because KK was going to bring pure monks in anyway.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
oh and how am i biased ?
O_o
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
K
show me one post from the overpowerd hybrid time where i said they're balanced ...
Yea ok, i'm gonna do a search alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to that time right? Um no. In-game and on the forums, countless times you and your clanmates(who were 99% hybrid at the time) kept saying they were fine or how this is a "team" game so it's ok to need more than one person to kill a hybrid.
I don't think hybrids without kami are realisticly viable either. I think the whole hybrid "Class" is broken. I think ppus and hybrids are broken come to think of it.
The whole damn monk class needs a good damn examination.
Scikar, make hybrids as a class viable IN GENERAL, TRULEY viable, and i'll agree with a PPU malus on the kami chips.
But needing a DS or Kami just to play a freaking class is not cool.
Freeejumper
12-12-03, 21:19
Originally posted by Scikar
Cyl0n hybrids have never been truly nerfed. The current situation shows that. You say if KK had balanced hybrids we wouldn't have monkacron now? How is that possible? Because to make hybrids truly balanced, we would have had to nerf them by even more than what we already did. And remeber who cried "OMG MY CLASS IS DEAD!!!!" after the hybrid nerf?
As far as I can see a non-kami hybrid is viable and balanced. A kami hybrid becomes overpowered. Therefore the only reasonable solution which appears is to put a negative to ppu on the apu kami chip. It makes sense anyway, the kami chips are supposed to drive you into a berserk rage where you don't care about defence right? So why can you still cast holy shelter, holy deflector, holy heal, holy antidote with a kami chip in? did you ever play a kami hybrid ? if yes you will know if your shelter is down and somebody is shooting you ... you will die ...
Originally posted by Scikar
Cyl0n hybrids have never been truly nerfed. The current situation shows that. You say if KK had balanced hybrids we wouldn't have monkacron now? How is that possible? Because to make hybrids truly balanced, we would have had to nerf them by even more than what we already did. And remeber who cried "OMG MY CLASS IS DEAD!!!!" after the hybrid nerf?
As far as I can see a non-kami hybrid is viable and balanced. A kami hybrid becomes overpowered. Therefore the only reasonable solution which appears is to put a negative to ppu on the apu kami chip. It makes sense anyway, the kami chips are supposed to drive you into a berserk rage where you don't care about defence right? So why can you still cast holy shelter, holy deflector, holy heal, holy antidote with a kami chip in? Thats a good point I wonder why they didnt put negative PPU hits on the APU kami chip in the first place.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Sounds like your offense is horrible though. How much do you do with damage boot?
Its not horrible, it is just ok in relation to what dmg i can take. I think with DB like 40-60(apus and tanks) depending on aiming, randomness and resists. But if someone is very low on health the dmg drops rapidly, but thats ok i have good freq. And i think i can deal with alot of dmg!(you can shoot me if you want :p)
Well about the Kami-Hybrid, its really not like before the nerf, i just didnt have a comparison. Maybe its good for PKing and 1on1s as long as no APUs and PPUs show up, but in OP fights you have to deal with alot of different damagetypes and also without shields, kamihybrid doesnt have that ability at all.
Originally posted by Freeejumper
did you ever play a kami hybrid ? if yes you will know if your shelter is down and somebody is shooting you ... you will die ...
exactly..
also apu HL kills any dbed kami hybrid
same with PE / Lib / tgc without ammo mod... pure force
try it and it works wonders...
and shad if you cant proove it dont say it... gimme proove or stop talking BS..
i even did stuff ingame to balance hybrids ffs
.cy
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:26
Originally posted by mehirc
Its not horrible, it is just ok in relation to what dmg i can take. I think with DB like 40-60(apus and tanks) depending on aiming, randomness and resists. But if someone is very low on health the dmg drops rapidly, but thats ok i have good freq. And i think i can deal with alot of dmg!(you can shoot me if you want :p)
What's your FREQ if you don't mind me asking? I can't deal with like 75 freq and low damage. Maybe if it "always" did 40-60 it would be ok. And don't you do really bad damage against PEs?
And another thing, this patch made anti-damage boost drugs wayyy more effective. :(
Originally posted by mehirc
Well about the Kami-Hybrid, its really not like before the nerf, i just didnt have a comparison. Maybe its good for PKing and 1on1s as long as no APUs and PPUs show up, but in OP fights you have to deal with alot of different damagetypes and also without shields, kamihybrid doesnt have that ability at all.
It's also good for teamplay. And it's albe to handle alot of different damage types. And remember, you don't have to ask anyone for buffs or heals. :p
EDIT:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i even did stuff ingame to balance hybrids ffs
.cy
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
exactly..
also apu HL kills any dbed kami hybrid
same with PE / Lib / tgc without ammo mod... pure force
try it and it works wonders...
HL kills a DBed kami hybrid? Oh wow, I didn't know apus could DB. Oh wait, did you mean apu AND ppu?
The effects of a PE/TGC/LIB versus a kami hybrid are overrated.
Originally posted by Freeejumper
did you ever play a kami hybrid ? if yes you will know if your shelter is down and somebody is shooting you ... you will die ...
That's like saying a PE will die if he doesn't cast shelter. What's your point? Would you ever run into a fight without a shelter on? No. The only class that can force you to drop your shelter is an APU. And if he casts antibuff, you parashock him. While he is stuck and can hardly turn to target you, you run for some cover and recast shelter. Then you slap on a heal to recover any damage you took and come back to DB him and kick his ass. Against ANY other class, you have no chance of dying unless you screw up.
Cylon don't give me bullshit about unmodded weapons. You know full well an unmodded TSG does the same amount of piercing damage as a force modded one, the force damage is in addition to the piercing. Next you'll claim you take 100 damage from a Moon Striker rocket. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
That's like saying a PE will die if he doesn't cast shelter. What's your point? Would you ever run into a fight without a shelter on? No. The only class that can force you to drop your shelter is an APU. And if he casts antibuff, you parashock him. While he is stuck and can hardly turn to target you, you run for some cover and recast shelter. Then you slap on a heal to recover any damage you took and come back to DB him and kick his ass. Against ANY other class, you have no chance of dying unless you screw up.
scikar a kami hybrid dies in 2 HL's from an apu without shelter...
did you ever play a kami hybrid ? :rolleyes:
its not as easy as you say with cover etc when you're in a middle of an op fight or outside on open field...
scikar answer.. did you try those weapons named above ?
.cy
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:30
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
its not as easy as you say with cover etc when you're in a middle of an op fight or outside on open field...
scikar answer.. did you try those weapons named above ?
.cy
True it's not that easy. But remember, halos now have 265m versus the loooooooow range of beams. SO hybrids can easily snipe apus to death.
I even did it yesterday. T'was very funny. heh
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
HL kills a DBed kami hybrid? Oh wow, I didn't know apus could DB. Oh wait, did you mean apu AND ppu?
The effects of a PE/TGC/LIB versus a kami hybrid are overrated.
shad i talked with several ppl ingame about hybrids .. for example i told pol about the shelter bug .. he tested it and brought it up here.. that was one of the major hybrid nerfs...
im talkin about op fights .. not about 1o1s....
anyway tbh i dont give a shit if you believe me or not...
.cy
/e thanks rade...;)
Spectra260
12-12-03, 21:32
my monks base PSI is 95 too...i should use ur setup and pwn people while i can:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
Cylon don't give me bullshit about unmodded weapons. You know full well an unmodded TSG does the same amount of piercing damage as a force modded one, the force damage is in addition to the piercing. Next you'll claim you take 100 damage from a Moon Striker rocket. :rolleyes:
Uh well actually for example an unmodded TSG does 100% pierce
damage but a explosive modded one does 60% piercing and 55%
force, resulting in 15% more damage but less piercing than a
unmodded one.
Freeejumper
12-12-03, 21:34
Originally posted by Scikar
That's like saying a PE will die if he doesn't cast shelter. What's your point? Would you ever run into a fight without a shelter on? No. The only class that can force you to drop your shelter is an APU. And if he casts antibuff, you parashock him. While he is stuck and can hardly turn to target you, you run for some cover and recast shelter. Then you slap on a heal to recover any damage you took and come back to DB him and kick his ass. Against ANY other class, you have no chance of dying unless you screw up.
Cylon don't give me bullshit about unmodded weapons. You know full well an unmodded TSG does the same amount of piercing damage as a force modded one, the force damage is in addition to the piercing. Next you'll claim you take 100 damage from a Moon Striker rocket. :rolleyes:
yeah i dont go into a fight without a shelter but if you rush to me you will be able to kill me easily and lol ... para ... did you try to para anybody with a kami hybrid ? :O no chance before i can cast my para i will be dead
Originally posted by Freeejumper
yeah i dont go into a fight without a shelter but if you rush to me you will be able to kill me easily and lol ... para ... did you try to para anybody with a kami hybrid ? :O no chance before i can cast my para i will be dead
All other hybrids seems to be very para-happy so thats just you
Im afraid.
Originally posted by Rade
All other hybrids seems to be very para-happy so thats just you
Im afraid.
i think she's talkin about now not b4 the patch..;)
.cy
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:36
Originally posted by Rade
All other hybrids seems to be very para-happy so thats just you
*ahem*
I don't know what you're talking about rade.
:o
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
*ahem*
I don't know what you're talking about rade.
:o
The best part of that smiley is that it looks like you're lining up to
suck it.
Originally posted by Rade
Uh, sorry but hybrids were balanced, not nerfed to hell. They are
still more than valid. Its just that the pures were brought into
play and turned out to be fucking overpowered.
**edit: altho imo the hybrid nerf is really stupid, they should have
chosen another means instead of the old tired "pistols gives
minuses to rifles, apu gives minus to ppu, h-c gives minus to m-c"
sheesh. It makes no sense and just punishes peopel who want
to make fun chars that can do more than one thing.
The way they nerfed the hybrid may not have been the best, but i really think its balanced now. At least i still feel very good and viable walking around as a Hybrid and fighting in OP-wars.
Only the APU/PPU interaction is too overpowered, but now less because of range and rezznerf ;)
@others
Pures have always been there, but they were not supported at all. There was only one way to make a viable monk and that was Hybrid. It was foreseeable that KK would change this without the crying of the community.
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:42
Originally posted by mehirc
@others
Pures have always been there, but they were not supported at all. There was only one way to make a viable monk and that was Hybrid. It was foreseeable that KK would change this without the crying of the community.
Yes exactly.
Btw i'm gonna send you a PM.
EDIT: Bah, clean out your box.
Originally posted by Rade
Uh well actually for example an unmodded TSG does 100% pierce
damage but a explosive modded one does 60% piercing and 55%
force, resulting in 15% more damage but less piercing than a
unmodded one.
And from where do you get this information? Neocron.ems.ru? That's just the same as what you get when you click info on a box of ammo. And we all know how accurate that is (according to the info window TGC does more damage than TSG).
And the only reason I have not played a kami hybrid is because I promised a long time ago never to sink to the level of some people and play an overpowered class in an attempt to look like I had skill.
Shadow Dancer
12-12-03, 21:55
Originally posted by Scikar
And the only reason I have not played a kami hybrid is because I promised a long time ago never to sink to the level of some people and play an overpowered class in an attempt to look like I had skill.
Erm?
*cough*
?
Originally posted by Scikar
And from where do you get this information? Neocron.ems.ru? That's just the same as what you get when you click info on a box of ammo. And we all know how accurate that is (according to the info window TGC does more damage than TSG).
Are you sure you understood what rade meant? He's right. You would do less pure piercing damage with an ammo mod, even if you do more overall damage.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Erm?
*cough*
?
I'll concede that not every hybrid plays a hybrid because he wants to be uber. 2% do it to level, and 3% do it because it's just their preferred class. The other 95% however...
Are you sure you understood what rade meant? He's right. You would do less pure piercing damage with an ammo mod, even if you do more overall damage.
I understand exactly what Rade meant, but I refuse to believe it. Shoot a mob with an unmodded weapon and note the damage. Mod it, change the ammo, and shoot again. Notice the damage increase. I am of the opinion that the damage increase is the only part of that damage which is the modded damage.
However, even if I am wrong, what does that prove? By not using an ammo mod, I'll do more piercing damage but less damage overall. So it's HIGHLY unlikely that it'll go from a hybrid outhealing an explosive speedgun to suddenly dying in a quarter of a clip when unmodded.
Note: Didn't read the whole thread yet, but.......
Would hybrids still be overpowered without the Kami?
If not, I wouldn't worry about them too much, the APU Kami was probably why the Kami mobs got removed from the game so quick......
The existing Kami's are going to worn out and wrecked after awhile, resulting in no more Kami cpu's, ie; no more Kami Hybrids...
Don't go nerfing anything just yet.......
Just my two cents....
I'll go read the rest of this thread after I go pick my son up from school, just needed to get that off my chest quick.....
Originally posted by Spoon
Note: Didn't read the whole thread yet, but.......
Would hybrids still be overpowered without the Kami?
If not, I wouldn't worry about them too much, the APU Kami was probably why the Kami mobs got removed from the game so quick......
The existing Kami's are going to worn out and wrecked after awhile, resulting in no more Kami cpu's, ie; no more Kami Hybrids...
Don't go nerfing anything just yet.......
Just my two cents....
I'll go read the rest of this thread after I go pick my son up from school, just needed to get that off my chest quick.....
Imps that have been used constantly for over a year is just now
getting to the 80-90% of their duration, so in like 2-3 years the
kamis would start getting destroyed? Item degrading is
completely fubared...
‡ Stormlord ‡
12-12-03, 22:30
After quiting NC after one month I am back to the NC forum to check out how you all live , mates. And its still a whining Forum at all.
And all what i have realisized is, that some of you guys really never stop whining about the fucking nice hybrids. Stop fucking cry the Hybrids are overpowered!
Give every Player a chance, to make in his own opinion perfect skilled hybrid ingame and give him time to get trained for a perfect control skill to his character class of a hybrid, BUT DONT FUCKING WHINE, IF YOU DONT KNOW YOURSELF HOW TO DO IT AND YOU DIE AND LIE...
Overpowered is someone with a perfect skill setup and personal ability to control a hybrid in a perfect way, AND ITS NOT KK´S FAULT, M´KAY???
Btw, it`s really a neutral question, ShadowDancer, why are you calling yourself a Master Hybrid?
IMO, Para is what makes the new hybirds so powerful after the new patch, because the holy para halo is worse than Holy Para was before the patch! If you get paraed by a hybird it gets very difficult.
So when two players are equally skilled and experienced and one
class is clearly superior to the other we shouldnt try to get it
balanced?
Originally posted by Rade
Imps that have been used constantly for over a year is just now
getting to the 80-90% of their duration, so in like 2-3 years the
kamis would start getting destroyed? Item degrading is
completely fubared...
I asked my son what the lowest condition was, of any of his Kami chips, 117% was the lowest overall condition.....
So yeah, probably years before they are gone.....
At least there's a limited and finite number in the game....
Well anyway, if you guys are really worried about Kami Hybrids....
Like Scikar said a few pages back, just give them a PPU malus, -75 or -100 PPU would kill the Kami Hybrid, "if" that is warranted....seems like a simple fix to me.......if it "is" broken....
Clothing_Option
13-12-03, 01:07
whatever im sure youve eaten it many times
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 02:09
Originally posted by ‡ Stormlord ‡
Btw, it`s really a neutral question, ShadowDancer, why are you calling yourself a Master Hybrid?
Nothing wrong with a little confidence right? :p
Originally posted by Futureman
IMO, Para is what makes the new hybirds so powerful after the new patch, because the holy para halo is worse than Holy Para was before the patch! If you get paraed by a hybird it gets very difficult.
No. The patch just happened yesterday. Anyways even if they didn't use para they would still be overpowered.
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
whatever im sure youve eaten it many times
Actually I haven't died since lomming to hybrid.
Shouldn't you be spying on NDA? :p
Mumblyfish
13-12-03, 02:11
My feelings can be summarised thus...
NERF THE FUCKERS!
Clothing_Option
13-12-03, 02:14
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Shouldn't you be spying on NDA? :p
ROFL
ill take care of that situation SAt
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 02:15
Hrmm, although I believe you could have been more indepth in your response, I'm inclined to agree with you. And it's nice to see another hybrid who's honest about his/her class.
Mumblyfish
13-12-03, 02:19
I would have gone more in depth, but to be fair all my points have been summarised by you throughout the thread. No need to turn into a broken cassette. Fnaar. Fnaar.
I used to enjoy being a hybrid back when they were weak, now they're TOO good. So I've shelved my hybrid to make a melee/rifle tank. The lengths I go to... just to be different...
HAHA BUT YOU AREN'T ME MUMBLYFISHZ0R!!
/edit. That means that I can go hunting warbots for days, without ever running to the city get repairs on my armor/gun, pokes, restock ammo, dump loot (I only keep rare parts).. blah blah.. fuck it nvm.
Shadow Dancer
13-12-03, 02:23
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
So I've shelved my hybrid to make a melee/rifle tank. The lengths I go to... just to be different...
Don't worry Mumbly, you will always be different in my eyes. :)
:p
I've also been thinking about going back to APU. The only problem is you're almost forced to wear PA. You either get gimp damage AND mana, or good damage and mana with the PA. I wish not wearing PA wasn't such a harsh penalty.
:(
I haven't played Neocron since June... You guys are still fighting about the same crap... Unbelievable o_O
Remove monks:
and I say this as a player that has two near capped monks.
Originally posted by Futureman
Remove monks:
and I say this as a player that has two near capped monks.
^^ and give all those with good monks such as yourself what ??
Freeejumper
13-12-03, 12:01
Originally posted by Futureman
Remove monks:
and I say this as a player that has two near capped monks. if they remove monks somebody (SD) will find a no race to cry about i think pe will be the next ...
Originally posted by Rade
So when two players are equally skilled and experienced and one
class is clearly superior to the other we shouldnt try to get it
balanced?
so with that statement, you think that spies should be equally as powerful as tanks/etc/etc?
Originally posted by Divide
so with that statement, you think that spies should be equally as powerful as tanks/etc/etc?
Yes, and they are as it is now. A tank using tank tactics should be
equal to a spy using spy tactics, which should be
stealthing/sniping etc. Whats a little boring right now is that a
well set up spy can be pretty much the same as a PE and smack
tanks/PEs in close combat without using any "spy tactics".
Originally posted by Rade
Yes, and they are as it is now. A tank using tank tactics should be
equal to a spy using spy tactics, which should be
stealthing/sniping etc. Whats a little boring right now is that a
well set up spy can be pretty much the same as a PE and smack
tanks/PEs in close combat without using any "spy tactics".
if that post doesnt say "I have no idea what playing a spy is like" I have no idea what the fuck it says. The spy has always been my main, and most loved class, and yes I can go toe to toe with most people. BUT if I cant beat someone, which happens very infrequently, its not because of my lack of skill, it is because of the fact that the spy is an inferior class.
Now you have your mission, make spies a balanced class on par with pe's and tanks
KRIMINAL99
14-12-03, 03:10
I agree 100% but if heals were nerfed mabye some things should be unnerfed such as the sheild on others nerf and the rezz cast time...
Originally posted by Divide
if that post doesnt say "I have no idea what playing a spy is like" I have no idea what the fuck it says. The spy has always been my main, and most loved class, and yes I can go toe to toe with most people. BUT if I cant beat someone, which happens very infrequently, its not because of my lack of skill, it is because of the fact that the spy is an inferior class.
Now you have your mission, make spies a balanced class on par with pe's and tanks
Im sorry but then you have a shit setup. I have set up a spy
which has the exact same defence as a PE and takes one drug to
cast shelter, and has higher damage output than a PE. Just
because your spy is poorly setup doesnt mean that the class is
shit.
Shadow Dancer
14-12-03, 03:40
Originally posted by Rade
Im sorry but then you have a shit setup. I have set up a spy
which has the exact same defence as a PE and takes one drug to
cast shelter, and has higher damage output than a PE. Just
because your spy is poorly setup doesnt mean that the class is
shit.
If he has the same defence as a PE without drugging, doesn't that mean he can only use ROG or pain easer?
So it's basically a PE who has to drug for shelter? :p
Psycho Killa
14-12-03, 03:43
My only problem is with Holy Energy halo
Its a Tl 55 Weapon that isnt to hard to cap as a hybrid. Now they can runcast it and it doesnt use to much psi energy.
Compare that to an energy beam that needs to have 400+% damage on it to outdamge a holy halo and its more then 30 tl's above a halo.
When i have 80+ Base psi and a head full of psi imps, its a problem when my best weapon is tl 55 unless i can manage to get a 5 slot energy beam....
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
If he has the same defence as a PE without drugging, doesn't that mean he can only use ROG or pain easer?
So it's basically a PE who has to drug for shelter? :p
Well RoG is the best rifle more or less so I dont see the problem?
But no, the setup Im talking about has 110 or 111 dex I think,
can use for example RoLH and cap damage on it. Pretty damn
spiffy indeed. Also the extra skillpoints could go to a extra
tradeskill, I wouldnt mind having both hacking and say
implanting. Also its quite possible to afford 25 vehicle use for a
hovertech, a luxury which PEs dont have.
hmmm
all i can say...
i think i will stop my ppu account....
i play on venus we have only 1 character.
Since the last patch PPU are useless
We can fight without ppu, a thing that wouldn't be possible before :)
PE it's the greatest character in op wars now like hybrids.
And as I have got an account PPU and one PE ... and as I found the PPU work since the last patch is boring.... i won't keep my PPU especially if KK nerf the heal...
I think KK should remove monks, PE and spy...
it will be balanced like that, no ? :lol:
Originally posted by Rade
Im sorry but then you have a shit setup. I have set up a spy
which has the exact same defence as a PE and takes one drug to
cast shelter, and has higher damage output than a PE. Just
because your spy is poorly setup doesnt mean that the class is
shit.
Im sorry but you have no fucking idea what you are saying. Id like you to ask a few of your leet friends who may know me-- my setup is far from shit, and if you have any doubt about that, come to saturn. But, why dont you just ask nancy boy where the basis of K4F's armor/con setup came from.
I know how to set up a spy, that is a fact, and I know what Im saying when I say this: Spies, no matter how good will not be able to beat a PE/Tank of equal skill, the game is made that way, for there to be superior classes in certain areas, I have come to grips with this, and you should at least recognize it
edit: and never have I ever fucking said spies were shit, and I never will... get your facts straight, and come again, thank you
Peeping Tom
14-12-03, 10:16
it was from vet actualy, from the time i used Judge (before we had epci rewards)str booster 2\zerk 2 for inq\dur 1 ,since then it got changed back and fort alot and the crazy drug combo i got ow is mine:P ,but yeah after talking with a couple of spies you included i decided to lom to shelter,
K4F
Dribble Joy
14-12-03, 10:30
Spies can easily have PE lvl defense.
130 odd fire/energy near capped xray 350+ hp
near capped piercing, capped force.
Only 1 drug, for shelter.
Or at least that's what I can get it to.
Alex The Great
14-12-03, 11:02
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Actually I haven't died since lomming to hybrid.
Shouldn't you be spying on NDA? :p
Oh nos lies me and cylon killed you at Nexxs event.
Originally posted by Divide
Im sorry but you have no fucking idea what you are saying. Id like you to ask a few of your leet friends who may know me-- my setup is far from shit, and if you have any doubt about that, come to saturn. But, why dont you just ask nancy boy where the basis of K4F's armor/con setup came from.
I know how to set up a spy, that is a fact, and I know what Im saying when I say this: Spies, no matter how good will not be able to beat a PE/Tank of equal skill, the game is made that way, for there to be superior classes in certain areas, I have come to grips with this, and you should at least recognize it
edit: and never have I ever fucking said spies were shit, and I never will... get your facts straight, and come again, thank you
A PE and a Spy can get almost identical setups, so tell me again
exactly why a Spy cannot beat a PE or Tank? Since I have done
this Im pretty interested in hearing why it cant be done. Now Im
100% sure about the skill of the people I fought but they werent
complete crap at least.
Richard Blade
14-12-03, 19:30
A PE and a Spy can get almost identical setups, so tell me again
Maybe because to get to that setup, he nerfs his fighting skills?
To get good fire resist, you need more than con. That means armor. To use that armor, you have to use str imps. That nerfs your dex and replaces several good pc / rc imps.
A PE doesn't have to make up for lack of armor or con with rc/pc loss.
I'm not arguing, just read the above as stated with a questioning tone. I still can't find the way to get 350+ health with my spy without messing my con setup to hell.
Yes, you wont be able to use disruptor, and you wont have as
good frequency on RoLH as you would have without str imps,
thats pretty obvious. Its still very possible to make a setup that
rivals any PE tho, I have so it shouldnt be a problem for anyone
else to do the same.
Also, most PEs that have mad high HPs without drugs are usually
Lib/BS/PE users, you wont find RoLH/RoG PEs with that defence
unless they are drugging.
Shadow Dancer
14-12-03, 19:33
Originally posted by Alex The Great
Oh nos lies me and cylon killed you at Nexxs event.
Sorry I meant 1v1.
Dying in "general", I've only died to to you, jest, cyl0n, and someone else who was hitting me at the event. lol
I also died in Carinth's apt. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Rade
A PE and a Spy can get almost identical setups, so tell me again
exactly why a Spy cannot beat a PE or Tank? Since I have done
this Im pretty interested in hearing why it cant be done. Now Im
100% sure about the skill of the people I fought but they werent
complete crap at least.
Yes, you wont be able to use disruptor, and you wont have as
good frequency on RoLH as you would have without str imps,
thats pretty obvious. Its still very possible to make a setup that
rivals any PE tho, I have so it shouldnt be a problem for anyone
else to do the same.
Also, most PEs that have mad high HPs without drugs are usually
Lib/BS/PE users, you wont find RoLH/RoG PEs with that defence
unless they are drugging.
a spy can beat a pe and a tank, in fact most people suck so hard at this game, that I could probably beat them with a half leveled spy, but the fact is the classes are NOT "balanced" Lets take Rizzy for example -- His tank rips my spy to shreds, but my pe can take him, and I can kill his spy with my spy, also with my pe. Or j0rz.tnk -- he is one of the few tanks that I cant beat, even when I shelter.
I dont really know how to make it any more clear, its not because the spy class is shit, it is because thats just the fucking way the game goes. Of course, I feel this worse than other spies due to the fact that I am rifle, meaning that while I already run fairly slow, afterwards I Get an even bigger penalty to my runspeed.
Psycho Killa
15-12-03, 00:10
What kind of fights are these though divide?
Planned duels?
You say u can beat almost everyone except a small handful of people though what if this isnt a setup fight and u use stealth and range to your advantage... Then surely there would be almost noone u couldnt beat?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
What kind of fights are these though divide?
Planned duels?
You say u can beat almost everyone except a small handful of people though what if this isnt a setup fight and u use stealth and range to your advantage... Then surely there would be almost noone u couldnt beat?
there is almost no one I cant beat now, but even with those tactics, it wouldnt be that great of a help, of I stealth, they have just as much time to heal up/etc as I do... I only use stealth when I need cover, like when gring to an enemy faction area, or when I am about to fucking die. If there were say a 2 - 3 second stealth, that would be fucking awesome-- playing the game almost teleportation style while fighting people.
Oh, and range can hardly be used to anyones advantage thanks to the shitty engine this game uses.
Divide is the hardest spy i have done 1 on 1's with but the only 1 on 1
it's not often u see me dead now is it unless i get ganked by a mob of ppu's and apu's or the Ts gaurds kill me in seconds they need taking out they are a pain in my rectum.
1 on 1 is where it's at any one can win with a ppu.
and whats the deal with the para still they side they nerfed it, it still feels like ive been super guled to the ground.
para should be taken out of the game...
least pvp would be more interesting and enjoyable then same for op wars
No their not... just fix that para and everything is fine in this kindom.
This thread is like... sooooo last year.
:p
Hybrid is crap now(at least for me totaly), it was so much more viable before #195, especially in OP wars. Now nothing is really worth playing a Hybrid anymore.
I was Hybrid from Beta3 to #195 without any break, but i guess everything has to end sometime. :(
The KAMI sucked, never touched one.
Original monk
03-02-04, 17:05
Originally posted by mehirc
Hybrid is crap now(at least for me totaly), it was so much more viable before #195, especially in OP wars. Now nothing is really worth playing a Hybrid anymore.
I was Hybrid from Beta3 to #195 without any break, but i guess everything has to end sometime. :(
The KAMI sucked, never touched one.
yup youre right, they screwed hybrids again ...
i wub hybrids, but i certainly prefered my kamihybrid over the post 195 hybrids
:(
Psyco Groupie
03-02-04, 17:11
why bother bumping such an old thread .. gonna confuse alot of people.
Dribble Joy
03-02-04, 17:19
Ugh, someone, close this.
I opened it up and started reading it thinking SD was complaining about the post 195 hybrids :p
MjukisDjur
03-02-04, 17:27
my glass of coke is soo empty right now.... :/
What TL is the Crahn Holy Resurrect Thread spell anyway? :rolleyes:
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