View Full Version : Why not make TH a safe zone?
Because thats whats practically been done with the new uberturrets, why not go the whole way and make it a safe zone? I GR'd in with full monk buffs and i barely managed to pick a GR and escape alive within 3 seconds.
When you start as a Fallen Angel, it says "for advanced players only" or something, the same as TG and CM, yet now they add all this stuff to make it super newbie friendly, i cant see it ever being successfully raided again.
Also, the TS flamer guards killed me in like 3 seconds, nerf them too.
superfresh
12-12-03, 10:17
TH now has the same level of defense as the city, and all areas of defense for each faction HQ's are now more "active". This is what NC has been trying to move toward, from what I understand - a real faction system. Being in any given faction now means more, and each faction has a more viable center. FA tradeskillers may now pull out of the city altogether if they want, and TG may develop their own tradeskill crew and center it in the Canyon. Same for CM and the MB.
I'm liking it, personally. Why should non-city low level runners and tradeskillers have to cling to Plaza areas? FA's should be able to level in TH, TG's in the canyon, and CM's at the MB. No non-city faction should be "more challenging" because their defense is a joke.
Non-safe zones also seem like a feasable option with these changes.
Its NO more raids anymore, thats a bit to extreme from walking around like a walk in the park and now instant death zone...8| ??!!
Yeah why not make HQ's or something Like TH savezone, since u cant go in it as enemie faction anyway jeez....:mad:
Alex The Great
12-12-03, 10:28
The Turrets At the GRs Are alittle much They can kill and unbuffed Runner Before he comes out of Sync. If they Remove the Turrets at the Grs It Will not be as Bad.
TH a safe zone.....no thanks, dont need it to be a carebear zone.
remove all safezones.....lets even the playing field
The Turrets At the GRs Are alittle much
there are actual entrances . . how do you think people got the GR tagged in the first place ;)
Personally I don't think any enemy faction should have the option of being able to just GR in and raid .. lol .. that's very lame indeed . .you should always have to come in through the front ( or back) door
And how u gonne suppose to play with all those gaurds that are stronger then copbots? Safezone suck but it could aswell be like that with all those defenses
remove all safezones.....lets even the playing field
Damn Right
I said this before they implimented the changes, but do people listen? no. This stupid change benafits a handful of carebears, but thats it. you cant raid at all now, and some of the non FA pussies are gonna miss old times I think, when they get bored and relise they need raids for something to do.
HQ should be a ''save'' place but not a untakeable stronghold like its now...no more fun raids ...=/
so the handful of pkers who wanted a simple lazy life will actually have to go through the entrance this time :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's cool. Now it will be just as hard to raid TH as it is to raid TT or CA. Except the city has safezones. Why should the people who want to raid TH get special treatment when people who run through pepper and city get attacked by faction guards too? At least we now have somekind of HQ.
And if I wanna kill people, I'll get off my lazy ass and do it elsewhere.
okay I took a real good gander around and umm . .well they could reduce the 20 turrents going down the back entrance way .. .lololol ... yea i guess it doesn't have to be that safe . . although I don't mind the turrents heading towards the reactor .. . it's a snazzy place now :cool: with nice piano music ..
I'm guessing its just as hard to raid via the front entances, I haven't actually tried it yet. I think I'll give it a go now, I'll report back...
EDIT: Yep, I lasted about 10 seconds, if that. Theres turrets all the way up the entrance ramps in sector 1, and once you've committed to running down the ramp, u cant get back up again when they begin to shoot you = no escape. No more TH raids then.
Dude, what's the problem there??? TG people can no longer go into the city and you're whining about going to TH? I don't see any TG people annoyed at thisO_o o_O
Originally posted by Lecko
Dude, what's the problem there??? TG people can no longer go into the city and you're whining about going to TH? I don't see any TG people annoyed at thisO_o o_O
ROFL cant go into the city, i was in the city with my BD tank stroling around Plaza 1 like i owned the place;)
Originally posted by Lecko
Dude, what's the problem there??? TG people can no longer go into the city and you're whining about going to TH? I don't see any TG people annoyed at this
Thats a whole different matter... I'm BD and we too can't enter Medicare, and to be honest I couldn't care less about that. If I'm not mistaken TG can still go just about everywhere in the city except medicare...
The point is TH is now pretty much a safe zone, no more raids, no more dangerous living for its citizens, I assume MB and TG are the same although I haven't checked them yet. I think this patch was an attempt to make the game more exciting and dangerous with regards to the faction guard changes, but it just made the game much more carebear.
Originally posted by Gonk
but it just made the game much more carebear.
^^what he said
[TgR]KILLER
12-12-03, 14:06
Originally posted by Sefran
HQ should be a ''save'' place but not a untakeable stronghold like its now...no more fun raids ...=/
Thats what it supposed to be :p TH was just a hunting zone for like TT and CS and BD.. now thats fixed.. FA can't go to any of the 3 factions and pull off a fighting we can raid TT HQ for hours but nobody will come.. we already dit that once.. we din't have a choice.. u life in the city u were safe.. this is the first time i feel pretty safe in TH and i even dare to take my tradeskiller from 1 app to another.. and i even got a load of ppl to come use my services in TH.. i wont spend that much time in the "evil" neocron now.. TH is finaly a home were FA can life in.
I'll say that TgR .. especially the reactor ;)
But still some reduction in turrents would be cool ... though I think the GR turrents should stay no matter what ...
Somebody want to send me some screenshots of what TH is like now? I'm tangent ^^
I do think the faction guards damage does need toning down slightly. TSu Flamer guards do insane damage to me and I'm a capped PPU Oo. There were so many dead people in PP1 lastnight from those guards, lol.
Originally posted by Gonk
....but it just made the game much more carebear.
Yep. But to quote that old chestnut; live with it.
There's nothing to be done except find new ways to pk. New places. True, BD won't be coming here to pk, but then I will have to go elsewhere to find them. Just cos today you cant raid TH, doesnt mean that won't change in the future. If you want to make it easier to pk, tell someone to get rid of BD guards and sit back and wait for people to come to you. Don't complain about TH, TG or MB which are not you're domain.
We'll continue to disagree I guess, so I'll leave it for now. :)
Originally posted by Lecko
If you want to make it easier to pk, tell someone to get rid of BD guards and sit back and wait for people to come to you.
lol, the BD guards are nothing compared to the TH turrets :) and the TH turrets are EVERYWHERE, thre are not so many BD guards in TH 2....
Also I think that with the other faction guards you can run past and they just shout at you, you dont get shot at instantly, whereas the turrets in TH activate automatically.
, whereas the turrets in TH activate automatically.
Gotta love those genius FA high tech scientist :D
[TgR]KILLER
12-12-03, 14:35
Originally posted by amfest
Gotta love those genius FA high tech scientist :D
U just made a point there.. we'r frigging scientists... finaly we got the defences we should be aible to make ourself.. and keep us tradeskillers safe..
and to all TT / BD / CS.. come see our defences for yourself :)
Originally posted by Gonk
...thre are not so many BD guards in TH 2....
I gotta agree with you there.... ;)
As argued in many threads now, I'm hoping safezones will be removed completly and make the game alot more fun to play.
Maybe noobs will fear stepping out of plaza and via again, maybe it will be a risk entering the city if your a CA enemy and maybe it will make the RP in this game alot better.
yea but Dissenter the maker of the thread was being saracastic cause the turrents in TH now make TH pretty much a safe zone from hostiles ... but it's still not a total safe zone cause neutrals and allies of course can waltz right in ....
I'm all for the removal of all safe zones, but thats a whole other matter... The fact is that if you removed all safe zones as things stand now, then TH would probably become one of the safest places to be, and Plaza would be the new danger area, since the guards around there are crap compared to the TH ones.
well then, why can't we see if that happens....
I think it might be a bit more suicidal in plaza as there would be many pro city factions present.
When DoY comes out, maybe the alliances will be changed to two sides.... to make it slightly better
I have to agree with most ppl on this forum.... KK there are way too many turrets in TH and at every corner. FA is a faction for advanced players as this game is going totally carebear it would be great if the FA faction now becomes a beginners faction. I can understand where FA ppl are concerned and they want more defenses but at the end of the day ppl who have the greatest whine thread or suck up badly usually get what they want in the end. But hey doubt KK will listen us we are just a small voice :rolleyes:
shodanjr_gr
12-12-03, 16:18
If Plaza-1 gets CS wielding guards of doom, TechHaven deserves ultra-turrets of killage and TG deserves Speedgun wielding uber guards!
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
If Plaza-1 gets CS wielding guards of doom, TechHaven deserves ultra-turrets of killage and TG deserves Speedgun wielding uber guards! AMEN! :p
I haven't logged in in quite some time (3 weeks or something), so I can't comment directly on the new defenses. Personally, I think this is how it should have always been.
I just wish that *ALL* guards would simply shoot on sight, instead of letting you run around if you have 10+ FS. It should be, if they see you, they start shooting.
--Stryfe
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
If Plaza-1 gets CS wielding guards of doom, TechHaven deserves ultra-turrets of killage and TG deserves Speedgun wielding uber guards!
None of the city factions are for "advanced" players though.
SeXy Happy
12-12-03, 17:01
Yes but if we left TH as a "advanced" faction with no guards like it was before, then it would have been the same thing over and over. All city goes to TH to bang the hell out of TH and retreat to NC where they are safe. These PKr's were usually "advanced" players in a "newb" faction.
So how the hell is that fair? How could they feel safe to level in their own HQ with a war raging constantly in their own HQ? Dude I have seen it, it was weak. At least now people can feel safe all around. It's more balanced. Like it should be.
superfresh
12-12-03, 17:10
Not sure if a faction is considered "advanced" simply because of their HQ's defense. A faction shouldn't be labelled advanced because their home security consists of 4 mechanical coffee tables.
SeXy Happy
12-12-03, 17:18
Well that is what the people in this thread are trying to say. That FA is an "advanced" faction and therefore shouldn't have big guards because they should be able to handle it on their own.
Then we get pwned by the "advanced" players from "newb" factions because they can just GR in waste the sector and go back to their safe haven with their guards protecting them....now chance for a retaliation from FA, we can't even pull guns in P1!
Guards in TH make it even.
TH guards dont make it even, do you have any idea how tough those turrets are? And how many of them there are everywhere? Try running through Pepper Park as an enemy of TS or BD and see how easy it is, then try going to TH as an enemy of FA, notice the difference.
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 17:28
Since when did "advanced" mean "easy to get PKed over and over eveyday"
You brought this on yourselves. if you didnt raid TH daily with HUGE forces, if you didnt camp it. if you didnt exploit to kill every, perhaps it wouldnt have been so bad, Fallen Angels are a TRADESKILL faction, and we now have defence. lets leave as it is. and stop crying bcos u cant come and gang FA daily anymore.
oh and @VetteroX:
I see you using "what about my enjoyment" arguement alot. well what about the fact the WHOLE of FA's enjoyment is more important than yours. how about you find something else to accupy your time other than to gank people who struggle to defend themselves because there not pure combat. how about you realise once and for all this is NOT a PVP game. pvp is ONE element that is PART of the game. the day people realise that. perhaps we can get back to what this game was designed for .. Roleplay.
the game is as much about role play as it is about fighting.
imo the guards in TG is just pure overkill
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 17:32
Wrong this game is MORE about Roleplay than it is about "killing" this is after all a MMORPG
Originally posted by Britt Deluccia
Since when did "advanced" mean "easy to get PKed over and over eveyday"
You brought this on yourselves. if you didnt raid TH daily with HUGE forces, if you didnt camp it. if you didnt exploit to kill every, perhaps it wouldnt have been so bad, Fallen Angels are a TRADESKILL faction, and we now have defence. lets leave as it is. and stop crying bcos u cant come and gang FA daily anymore.
oh and @VetteroX:
I see you using "what about my enjoyment" arguement alot. well what about the fact the WHOLE of FA's enjoyment is more important than yours. how about you find something else to accupy your time other than to gank people who struggle to defend themselves because there not pure combat. how about you realise once and for all this is NOT a PVP game. pvp is ONE element that is PART of the game. the day people realise that. perhaps we can get back to what this game was designed for .. Roleplay.
Well maybe if only advanced players enetered the faction like it says, it wouldn't be so easy to PK there every day, but thats beside the point. You're SUPPOSED to be living with a little bit of danger, not in a SAFE ZONE, if you're bothered about getting PK'd then hire some security or leave your LE in. And btw, IT IS a pvp game, or it WAS until all the carebears like you moaned for more security, the whole point about removing your LE is that it makes you vulnerable to getting killed, and being involved in pvp, if you dont like that fact, then dont take your chip out. Oh yeah, it doesn't matter now, because instead of doing something for yourself you successfully managed to convince KK to make the game easier for you.
And about the point you made to vet, why is it that your enjoyment is more important than his? Who said so? That's a pretty selfish attitude i think...
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 17:47
Hmm let me correct you on several points
1. Why do we have to live in a little danger who said so? were scientist. no fighters, and since we are we designed a secuirty system.
2. No your wrong this is a MMORPG show me your evidence that its a PVP game?
3. I Roleplay C.Y.B.O.T the RPC who defended Tech Haven while there was no defence.
4. I think the entire faction of FA are a little more important that one person.. no matter how you shape it :rolleyes:
1. Why do we have to live in a little danger who said so? were scientist. no fighters, and since we are we designed a secuirty system.
I can't remember the exact wording of it, but if my memory serves me correctly, FA, TG, and CM are defined as "recommeded for advanced players only" when you start a new character, or something like that. This is for various reasons, one of them being that the main areas of these 3 cities are not safe zones, well that was the case before....
2. No your wrong this is a MMORPG show me your evidence that its a PVP game?
Why can't it be both? And I think a game can be defined by its community, add up the amount of people that roleplay regularly, then compare that to the amount of people that take part in pvp...
4. I think the entire faction of FA are a little more important that one person.. no matter how you shape it
Yes everyone is entitled to their own enjoyment, so if your thing is to roleplay or tradeskill, then leave your LE in, or choose an easier faction and hang around in plaza. Have you ever considered the fact that TH was SUPPOSED to be like it was, why cant you adapt to it instead of moaning for it to be adapted to you?
The people that raid TH don't have a place for us to raid, so its pretty lame imo. Wouldn't mind attacking them, when they are AFK or unprepared for once.
Originally posted by bounty
The people that raid TH don't have a place for us to raid, so its pretty lame imo. Wouldn't mind attacking them, when they are AFK or unprepared for once.
Actually a lot of BD are hanging out in pp2 now, so you could always try raiding it. Also, how about not going afk in an ANARCHY ZONE? o_O
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 18:06
i still dont see how Advanced player says that we have to be ganked.
and by your own argument lets have a look at how many FA dont want it raided every day , and compair to the number who do?
And my thing is PVP i Roleplay a PVP character , well definded and with alot of rules and restrictions i admitt. but you and others like you claim this is a PVP orientated game. which it clearly isnt.
You may be upset that you cant now raid tech haven. but im sure you will get over it. in the mean time perhaps we FA can play the game how we want for once. im a member of FA for there history. there RP aspects. no were do i see a note saying "Oh and joining this faction means you will be ganked endlessly" oh and yes my Priv char is a FA aswell.
Originally posted by Britt Deluccia
but you and others like you claim this is a PVP orientated game. which it clearly isnt.
It clearly is.
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 18:20
If it was a PVP game. i would think that Soullight. safezones. beltdrops. and many other features would not exsist to protect against rampant PKing and Overuse of PvP
Let's take a step back and look at things for a moment, ok?
How about the fact that the whole faction system encourages you to pvp, or at least doesn't punish you. Red factions are there for a reason, to be killed, if this wasn't supposed to happen then you would get SL loss for doing so.
Also lets take a look at epic runs... a supposedly integral part of the game, something KK spent a lot of time implementing... You cant complete these epic runs WITHOUT PKing, they require it, the system wholeheartedly encourages it. In my opinion the fact that a piece of major content (at least as far as KK are concerned) requires pvp, that yes, it is a pvp orientated game.
The whole game is built around pvp and you know it, OP wars? Anarchy and war zones? Events based on pvp? Hmmm?
At least, this WAS the case, but the game is becomming more and more carebear all the time, due to the vocal minority of moaners.
Anyway this is slightly off topic, And I NEVER said that TH should have no security like it used to, but the current situation is WAY over the top.
you claim this is a PVP orientated game. which it clearly isnt
It is.
The people that raid TH don't have a place for us to raid, so its pretty lame imo
That's very true. For the longest there was nothing FA could do because in the end, everyone idles in the safezones. Except for most FA I knew and know
o_O
we FA can play the game how we want for once. im a member of FA for there history
Yeah, FA is a bunch of scientists... They're not generally able to fight back, so they rely on technology and their relative neutrality to help them.
Now that they actually have that technology and are free to play the part as neutral scientists plying their trade to the highest bidder... Everyone complains.
So you can't raid TH without alot of people and support. But thats the way it's supposed to be. It's a city for crying out loud.
No your wrong this is a MMORPG show me your evidence that its a PVP game?
Lets not have that conversation here, do a search... You'll find out what this game is clearly defined as. a mmorpg set in a post-apoc setting with a heavy emphasis on player vs. player conflict.
Yes everyone is entitled to their own enjoyment, so if your thing is to roleplay or tradeskill, then leave your LE in, or choose an easier faction and hang around in plaza. Have you ever considered the fact that TH was SUPPOSED to be like it was, why cant you adapt to it instead of moaning for it to be adapted to you?
TH was never supposed to be like that. :rolleyes:
Do you think the best and brightest minds of Tangent, NeXT, BioTech, and ProtoPharma (because yes, that's what supposedly makes of the Fallen Angels) would develop a super high tech droid that doesn't move and DOES SO MUCH DAMAGE THAT AN ATTACKING RUNNER CAN OUTHEAL IT?
No. The defense TH has now is in running with their plot as put forth.
"recommeded for advanced players only" when you start a new character, or something like that. This is for various reasons, one of them being that the main areas of these 3 cities are not safe zones, well that was the case before
TH isn't a safezone. And it still isn't. Only now it requires more work to raid. The days of the lone runner reaking havoc for the entire faction is over. damnit :( Frankly, I think it's better now seeing as FA generally doesn't get the most hardened PvPers on most servers.
Well, you've got a point I suppose, however I still think there are too many turrets, and that they are overpowered. I never asked for them all to be removed, just a little bit less extreme. Tonight I will try and get a team together and see what happens, but I think it will still be impossible... I wont comment on that until I've tried it though. However it just shifts some emphasis back towards PPUs, which I assume would be vital now if you want to go to TH, thats not what we wanted, is it?
Originally posted by Gonk
Let's take a step back and look at things for a moment, ok?
How about the fact that the whole faction system encourages you to pvp, or at least doesn't punish you. Red factions are there for a reason, to be killed, if this wasn't supposed to happen then you would get SL loss for doing so.
Also lets take a look at epic runs... a supposedly integral part of the game, something KK spent a lot of time implementing... You cant complete these epic runs WITHOUT PKing, they require it, the system wholeheartedly encourages it. In my opinion the fact that a piece of major content (at least as far as KK are concerned) requires pvp, that yes, it is a pvp orientated game.
The whole game is built around pvp and you know it, OP wars? Anarchy and war zones? Events based on pvp? Hmmm?
At least, this WAS the case, but the game is becomming more and more carebear all the time, due to the vocal minority of moaners.
Anyway this is slightly off topic, And I NEVER said that TH should have no security like it used to, but the current situation is WAY over the top.
hate to sound like spam, but amen.
Granted, i'm sure the kk people are working torwards something based on pvp here. But i suppose the key word is pvp, not PK. Sadly, the days of ganking are going to be difficult with this system though.
C'est La Vie.
Edit:
If it was a PVP game. i would think that Soullight. safezones. beltdrops. and many other features would not exsist to protect against rampant PKing and Overuse of PvP
I'm not even going to go there. Oh wait, here i go.
ITS A PVP GAME
MayhemMike
12-12-03, 18:42
This new patch stinkz0rs.
superfresh
12-12-03, 18:47
Originally posted by Gonk
Have you ever considered the fact that TH was SUPPOSED to be like it was...
I'm not sure if TH was meant to have no security. Both the MB and TG have always had it.
@ Britt - Speaking as an FA, PvP is an important part of NC. You don't have to fight other players if you don't want and there's plenty else to do, but yeah, it's there and it's a very exciting part of it. Because of the faction system, PvP might even be considered a part of the RP aspect of the game. :)
"Advanced" is a weird term I guess. Some factions are labelled advanced but have so many people that its hard to think of them as such. The only thing I can think of that might make an FA advanced is that a brand new FA player will probably have a tougher time getting started than, say, a brand new CA player.
I don't think that joining any faction should mean defending your HQ 24/7, though. There are plenty of places to kill FA. Now that we can concentrate on other things, I'm sure you'll get the opportunity at some of your Outposts. :eek:
Britt Deluccia
12-12-03, 19:00
As the person behind the C.Y.B.O.T character ingame. and as a PVP character i say yes, pvp is a PART of the game. but i STRONGLY disagree that it is what this game was designed for. PvP can be role played. but then there is very little roleplay in ganking FA runners senselessly.
Originally posted by Britt Deluccia
but then there is very little roleplay in ganking FA runners senselessly.
I dont want to use roleplaying to excuse my actions, because I'm not a roleplayer, but actually, there's loads of sense in ganking FA runners endlessly, since they're an enemy faction and all. Thats a pretty pure form of roleplaying, and you cant use the term only to support your actions and what you want, you've gotta take all that comes with it.
superfresh
12-12-03, 19:29
Originally posted by Britt Deluccia
...there is very little roleplay in ganking FA runners senselessly.
Maybe some players want to roleplay a senseless ganker. :)
Guards should present a significant threat to raiders but not make it bloody impossible to run through an enemy faction's HQ or home. People have been saying they feel more immersed by this patch, but a 120/120 mob that looks like a newbie tank with a plasma cannon who can kill me in seconds doesn't get me off too hard.
I'll go to MB later with someone else but I think it will end shortly after we get to the nomads :/
SeXy Happy
12-12-03, 23:11
Dear Lord I never knew how bad it meant to these PKer's to have the ability to PWN TH. I will say I feel really bad that KK took away your only enjoyment out of the game. That does suck. But what about the FA players who have had their enjoyment sucked out of the game by having to run everytime TT wanted to raid TH? I can't count the times that I had to run to an apartment so my droner didnt get ganked by the raiding clan. More often than not I got ganked anyhow. (comes with the territory of being a spy though, so its cool) But I felt sorry for all of the other FA in TH that were for the most part tradeskillers.
I can only say....sucks to be you, find someone else to pick on. :p
FA are a bunch of lame ass pussys who should shut the fuck up abd die!!
ResurgencE
13-12-03, 09:26
Aight, y'know what?
This is absolutely senseless. I do not in the least agree with the new patch, and im all for pvp, since most of the RP in this game is centered around the fighting. Even csters, ressers and the like build weapons, and the very fact that i carry one around is evidence of the fact that this game depends heavily on scrimmages.
The fighting in itself constitutes the RP and enimity between factions. Im an ex-FA member, and i know precisely how the situation was in TH pre-patch. But you have GOT to be kidding me. We didnt ask for THIS much defense.
Now, i could care less what you carebears want from the game. All i know is, i wanna switch my friggin faction to join BD, and not only am i NEXT but i also have -98 fac symp. Fix the fucking fac symp increase, then move the fucking HR director of all the factions one would want to switch to into a small building or a zone with fewer to no guards. Or enable us to switch via a CC.
Disabling the ability to switch factions, coupled with the fact that you've successfully constricted nearly each and every faction to regions which a) Are not big enough and B) Dont serve a purpose since there are so few runners online at ANY given time, that separating them is nonsensical.
I mean, what the hell is going on? We're essentially only allowed to indulge in op fights? Primarily, even with the locked grs alone it was impossible to get around. Now you've locked us out of faction HQs completely as well. By the time i REACH a friggin op that i want to attack, ive grown older.
Doesnt KK get it? They dont have a big enough world OR sufficient runners to populate their respective 'turfs'. This isnt RP. This is insanity.
As the person behind the C.Y.B.O.T character ingame. and as a PVP character i say yes, pvp is a PART of the game. but i STRONGLY disagree that it is what this game was designed for. PvP can be role played. but then there is very little roleplay in ganking FA runners senselessly.
Reeee-heeee-heeee-heeee-ally?
Then WHAT is the game designed for? Every single tradeskill is linked to fighting either directly or indirectly. OPs involve fighting. Faction enimity involves fighting. If you do NOT fight, what is it that you do? Head to Garriot's diner and make-believe that rat souffle ur eating somehow affects your character in ANY way whatsoever?
If this game is not pvp-oriented, WHY do LE's exist?
JESUS Christ.
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