View Full Version : No More Ressurecting People
After reading the test server patch notes, holy rez being 40 second cast, and 300 mana, i'm retiring my PPU's rez spell. If you die, you die, end of story, you can GR out, find a poker etc.
Any other PPU's who want to join in, feel free to.
The aim:
To show everyone who whines about nerfing Rez, that without it, they require pokes, they get synaptic, they require hard to find tradeskillers to replace stuff lost in inventories, if you show KK "now" how fucked up the idea is, maybe they will actually listen.
As it currently stands, my Rez time is 12 seconds, thats 3 seconds shorter than my heal.
ghandisfury
08-12-03, 23:31
Agreed, if the test server shit goes through, my rezz spell moves from my inventory to my appartment.
300 mana!?
ffs!
BAD BAD BAD BAD!
I'm all for the nerfing of PPUs..... but the 40 second thing was going a little bit too far. A classic KK sledgehammer approach. :(
if you wait till after its done, it will be too late, the major nerf will be in place. From a max of 10/min to a max of 1/min. Normal rez mana is 160 or 150, and takes 1 min to cast.
How many PPU's would be happy to stand around for 40 seconds, trying to res a mate who had died to weak ass mobs, biting thru your shelter/deflector?
Though im not going to enjoy not being rezzed, its important for every ppu to do this, so people know what is going to happen if changes such as this go ahead.
ReefSmoker
08-12-03, 23:35
Look on the bright side, OP warfare will become more definitive, and at the end of the battle there'll be plenty of time to rez the dead on your side since the enemy will be vanquished. The losing side will be the ones forced to generep and get poked, the winners won't have a problem.
As for hunting, well a PPU can keep themselves alive long enough in PvM for a resurrection to be carried out - if they can't stay alive against mobs then they're in the wrong job !
*turning off topic reply notification to reduce mailbox spam with flames*
Take care,
Reefie
hudsonbeck
08-12-03, 23:35
It is OVERKILL!
H
/edit... and i'm in
/edit2 My monkey is even more sad :(
I think it's a little much but thats KK for you. If they want to fucking nerf rezz like that fine. I'm just gonna be rezzing people under fire and having it take 40 seconds same thing, just longer/
I think its a good idea. Stage one in putting the fear back in dieing.
Mumblyfish
08-12-03, 23:37
This is a fantastic change. Maybe people will learn to stop dying.
Quick and random and totally too late idea :
You cannot be rezzed for 30-60 seconds after being killed by a player. (Edit : fear coming back into being killed there)
No changes to PvM.
PvP type op fights get what seems to have been desired for quite some time, while important and often monotonous leveling does not because difficult and even more boring.
{MD}GeistDamnit
08-12-03, 23:39
so true lexx, honestly nerfing rez "may" help in pvp, but it totally screw's people that want to level. maybe they could make it affect kills from pvp different than kills from a mob. like how dog tags drop.
Hi reefie *hugz*
I was in on that no ppu op war thing yesterday, it lasted 2 mins either way. Any PPU wont be able to stand still for 40 seconds, to rez a fallen mate, as soon as the heal goes, they are turned into putty, this isnt really like in beta, when op wars never had a glow stick, this is retail, where people can die in seconds because the guns are much more powerful than then.
This is just a way of showing everyone, exactly what to expect with a total Rez nerf. When you die, you require a poker to put your implants back in, sometimes you can wait a while in plaza. If you just dropped an item you really need, but dont have a spare, you either have to make do with shop bought, or find a researcher/constructor.
Solidarity for PPU's etc..
/edit @ pete - you cant, your heal lasts 15 seconds, say 30 seconds crouching, thats 10 seconds without a heal running, that you have to rez someone, in the hope that a) you havent moved, and b) your shelter/deflector doesnt drop. Now, imagine your miss the first one, thats 40 seconds gone, you recast, 1/2 way thru you think "shit, my shelters were cast a minute ago, they are going to run out before i can finish this rez!".
shodanjr_gr
08-12-03, 23:41
Im all with you Lex. No more rezzing for 3rd parties, only clan as far as i go!!!
i think its a Good thing rly. :(
I don't understand why rez is being nerfed so strongly. The main complaint about PPUs was Holy Paralysis not rez. Sure, it can be frustrating to watch an enemy you just killed being rezzed but it works both ways since the PPU on your team has the same ability. It makes OP fights (those rare events that happen once every 2 weeks) more fun and last longer. Perhaps they could add a small synaptic impairment of say 10-15% to newly rezzed runners but ONLY if the were killed by another runner so as not to penalize PvM rezing. If they go through with this change it is going to make OP fights last 1/10 of the time it takes to organize and travel to the OP. Who will even bother? I think they are making a huge mistake.
omfg thats not it slow rezz they done it 4 this reason wen a ppu tries 2 rezz some1 an apu can come along antibuff him and kill him. the ppu can stop rezz and rebuff BUT TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER REZZ AGAIN omfg thats just mad. u need another ppu near u. u just watch. all u whiners saying its good watch the next time yr DS or SA falls out and u ask 4 a rezz. u can just go F*** yr selvs
Psycho Killa
08-12-03, 23:48
YOU DONT NEED RESSURECTION TO LEVEL!!
shodanjr_gr
08-12-03, 23:48
Originally posted by Rade
yay no more rezz!
DONT get me started again :)
Im beginning to turn into SD of PPU monks....
Originally posted by Lexxuk
/edit @ pete - you cant, your heal lasts 15 seconds, say 30 seconds crouching, thats 10 seconds without a heal running, that you have to rez someone, in the hope that a) you havent moved, and b) your shelter/deflector doesnt drop. Now, imagine your miss the first one, thats 40 seconds gone, you recast, 1/2 way thru you think "shit, my shelters were cast a minute ago, they are going to run out before i can finish this rez!".
Holy heal sanct last 60 seconds. And if I really would need it I could have another ppu if there was one cast a heal on me. Besides, I'd work hours on it trying to find a way to do it just so i can piss off all the fucking whining ass n00bs that like to fucking complain about ppus becuase they dont' have one and think it's not fair because ppus dont' want to ppu for them and listen to them bitch about every little thing that wasn't fair.
i dont play on pluto but SD complains soo much are u telling me he runs round woth no PPU. i highly doubt it there are not many apus that are good with out a ppu. only1 in saturn that can last more then 10mins is EtheReal
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
DONT get me started again :)
Im beginning to turn into SD of PPU monks....
Na SD makes a point, your just a looser :rolleyes:
And come off all these lame excuses for why it shouldnt be changed. There was a time when hardly anyone could rez people still lvled PVPed and had fun and shit. Its not bad, its a good change.
ReefSmoker
08-12-03, 23:51
Originally posted by Dont Mess
omfg thats not it slow rezz they done it 4 this reason wen a ppu tries 2 rezz some1 an apu can come along antibuff him and kill him. the ppu can stop rezz and rebuff BUT TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER REZZ AGAIN omfg thats just mad. u need another ppu near u. u just watch. all u whiners saying its good watch the next time yr DS or SA falls out and u ask 4 a rezz. u can just go F*** yr selvs
ROFL - some of us aren't stupid enough to rely on our best gear all the time :rolleyes: You can still be good without having an MC5 chip crammed into your cranium !!
Oh and all this BS about rezzing while in battle - the resurrection was an 'end-of-battle' thing, because it takes so little time to cast these days (mainly due to changes in the specialisation system) people have become so reliant on it. Man, I agree totally with MumblyFish and Nexxy, this WILL put the fear back in dying, something which many of you have been asking to happen for a long time !!!
C'mon people, make up your minds, are you all pansies who want an easy life or do you want a challenge ??
Take care,
Reefie
EDIT : mistyped your name Mumbly, sorry !
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
YOU DONT NEED RESSURECTION TO LEVEL!!
Couldnt agree more. This puts skill back in Neocron, if we could
just find more ways/get KK to implement more changes that does
that.
slaughteruall
08-12-03, 23:54
As for hunting, well a PPU can keep themselves alive long enough in PvM for a resurrection to be carried out - if they can't stay alive against mobs then they're in the wrong job
Dude you ever play a low lvl PPU? The cap is at 60 imagine what a noob would get? Something around 80 or so probally. Even if it was at 60 no noob can keep himself alive for that long under a fire from a mob.
It does need to be nerfed somewhat but not this far. If you ppl would think about it all you will see is more PPU's at OP fights not less.
Slaughter
shodanjr_gr
08-12-03, 23:54
Originally posted by Nexxy
Na SD makes a point, your just a looser :rolleyes:
And come off all these lame excuses for why it shouldnt be changed. There was a time when hardly anyone could rez people still lvled PVPed and had fun and shit. Its not bad, its a good change.
Im not a looser, some other people are loosers that cant understand the true role of a PPU in a team/clan.....
<edit>Actually after some thinking, rezz does need a slight nerf, 15 secs-20 max. But 60 secs is an overkill, big overkill.
And Sd is making a point????rrrrriiiiigghhhtt.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Im not a looser, some other people are loosers that cant understand the true role of a PPU in a team/clan.....
To ruin the fight by rezzing people easily when they die, by healing them to full health in a second, to make people take stupidly low ammounts of damage? And dont give me no you havent played a PPU crap because i have.
Originally posted by slaughteruall
Dude you ever play a low lvl PPU? The cap is at 60 imagine what a noob would get? Something around 80 or so probally. Even if it was at 60 no noob can keep himself alive for that long under a fire from a mob.
It does need to be nerfed somewhat but not this far. If you ppl would think about it all you will see is more PPU's at OP fights not less.
Slaughter
The resurrection should be the epitome of the PPUs power,
afterall bringing someone back to life should be a rare. Only
capped PPUs should be able to do it and imo it should be the
rarest fucking spell there is as well. People should come running
from all over the zone just to see it be done when they see the
effect from afar.
Psycho Killa
08-12-03, 23:57
Shodan obviously you dont understand the role of a ppu.
The role of a ppu is to AID in combat his teammates.
The role of a ppu is to not bestow godmode on who he sees fit.
The role of a ppu is not to res someone will under fire from 10 plus guys (Ive done it with even more then 10 dont tell me it isnt possible barring HAB)
The role of a ppu is to AID in op fights and combat in general. They where not meant to be a neccesity.
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
ROFL - some of us aren't stupid enough to rely on our best gear all the time :rolleyes: You can still be good without having an MC5 chip crammed into your cranium !!
OR some pple cant get an MC5 mayb thats y :p wat are u on about neway if u die and u have an mc5 in yr head u would care if it popped with the lack of 115 pokers and trusty reppers i would rather get a rezz. o ok next time u zone crash and die thats gonna be great.
Psycho Killa
08-12-03, 23:58
Reef was an established member of the community when i joined over a year ago..... Im quite sure he can manage getting an mc chip.
Your right shodan the only way to kill a ppu should be with an apu :rolleyes:
shodanjr_gr
08-12-03, 23:59
Originally posted by Nexxy
To ruin the fight by rezzing people easily when they die, by healing them to full health in a second, to make people take stupidly low ammounts of damage? And dont give me no you havent played a PPU crap because i have.
Yes yes yes. CONCENTRATE ON THE PPU!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE ANTIBUFF, USE IT!!!!!!!!!
oh and read my edit about the nerf thingie.
I hate APUs just as much, thats got nothing to do with this thread though.
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:02
Originally posted by Nexxy
I hate APUs just as much, thats got nothing to do with this thread though.
Who said i hate APUs????With the nerf range coming i consider them to be balanced. What i hate is people constantly whining about the PPUs god mode, which is something he deservers to have...
Oh no, I have a chip that might actually break in 1-1.5 years time
if I play and die alot, so therefore we need to have rezz in
the game so my chip wont degrade.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - spam ]
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 00:03
Shodan do all us ppus a favor and stop posting.
Your only going to make it worse for us.
PPUS SHOULD NOT AND DO NOT DESERVER "GODMODE"
We deserve to survive a couple people shooting us yes. Though it isnt like that now we can survive an army shooting us which is shit.
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 00:03
Originally posted by slaughteruall
Dude you ever play a low lvl PPU? The cap is at 60 imagine what a noob would get? Something around 80 or so probally. Even if it was at 60 no noob can keep himself alive for that long under a fire from a mob.
It does need to be nerfed somewhat but not this far. If you ppl would think about it all you will see is more PPU's at OP fights not less.
Slaughter
Rade pretty much said it for me, but have you ever seen a low level ppu try to rez even with the current system ? It still takes them forever because it's on the limit of their skills - erm - stats... Anyhow, my own PPU never touched resurrection until she was close to being capped, and tbh I don't think I've used res or holy res more than a dozen times in all on other people, mainly because those I play with (and against) are competent enough to survive with the buffs / boosts I provide.
Be all classes, play all classes regularly (or not so regularly for myself lately, but I do keep myself up to speed on all chars' abilities and tune them as and when I can) and then see what it's like from all perspectives.
Bias and bigotry are not helpful in these discussions, KK are doing their best to step back and look at the complete picture, it's no wonder they don't listen to us all the time, because we are inherantly biased towards our current class of choice.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
EDIT : don't mess or whatever you're called - I have both an SA and a Hawkings, no big deal, we all know how easy MC5 is with the right combo :D
Isn't it funny how somehow rez has taken longer and longer to cast as the thread goes on? First Lexx says it takes 40 seconds, now Slaughter claims it's capped at 60 seconds and takes 80 for a newb PPU? :lol:
If some PPUs want to hang up their rez spells that's perfectly fine by me.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Who said i hate APUs????With the nerf range coming i consider them to be balanced. What i hate is people constantly whining about the PPUs god mode, which is something he deservers to have...
No they dont. No one does.
And considering that Nexx is pretty good and has some solid
experience I find the comments from you to him about how to
take down a PPU obscenely misplaced.
I agree with "make people learn not to die" and "put the fear back in dieing." But the problem is that this will make OP fights end very quickly. When you consider how long it takes to get a team to a fight, I think the result is going to be less action for all of us. Who wants that?
Some of the most fun OP fights I have been in have been the grueling 20 minute battles. Sure, people were rezzed numerous times on both sides but eventually one side pushes through and is victorious.
I think that the real problem with rez is when you see a PPU being shot at by 4 people while he is rezzing a mate and he manages to fully heal and shelter this person who immediately is back in the fight.
You need to punish the person who died and not the PPU. Give the newly rezzed 10-15% synaptic (but not in PvM deaths). That will make them very easy to kill and it will be annoying enough to them that they will try to stay alive.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Who said i hate APUs????With the nerf range coming i consider them to be balanced. What i hate is people constantly whining about the PPUs god mode, which is something he deservers to have...
all i can say is <3 Rade and <3 Nexxykins, if death was what it was like a year ago i will be happier... shodan, why does a ppu deserve to be able to take damage from 10 or more people while being able to rez someone? or take damage from 10 people at all... the point of the PPU is to aid his team mates in killing the opposition, NOT to take unbeleivable amounts of damage.
Also, my SA has fallen out ONCE since i got it, and tbh i couldn't care more if it fell out, i dunno why people are so pissed about having to rep chips, you can still use it if it is under /100 !!11!11!11!!11...jeez...
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:08
Originally posted by Rade
The resurrection should be the epitome of the PPUs power,
afterall bringing someone back to life should be a rare. Only
capped PPUs should be able to do it and imo it should be the
rarest fucking spell there is as well. People should come running
from all over the zone just to see it be done when they see the
effect from afar.
That actually sounds like a good idea. Make a new thread and we can discuss it (aka start another flame war about PPUs :))
WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NERF THE REZ.. ITS THE PARA THAT EVERYONE CRIES ABOUT.. I WOULD AGREE IT DOES NEED TO HAVE ITS ROF REDUCED AND MANA COST UPPED BUT ITS LIKE... POEPLE COMPLAIN ALL DAY ABOUT THE PARA... AND COMPLAIN AND COMPLAIN THEN KK LISTENS AND THEY NERF THE REZ.. WTF
MAYBE WE ARE NOT SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE AS KK. MAYBE WE SHOULD GO OFF AND LEAN NERF LANGUAGE OR SLUDGEHAMMER.. MAYBE SO
rez needed a tweak
but KK doesnt do tweaks
PARA needed this type of nerf, not rez
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:10
Originally posted by Possessed
all i can say is <3 Rade and <3 Nexxykins, if death was what it was like a year ago i will be happier... shodan, why does a ppu deserve to be able to take damage from 10 or more people while being able to rez someone? or take damage from 10 people at all... the point of the PPU is to aid his team mates in killing the opposition, NOT to take unbeleivable amounts of damage.
Also, my SA has fallen out ONCE since i got it, and tbh i couldn't care more if it fell out, i dunno why people are so pissed about having to rep chips, you can still use it if it is under /100 !!11!11!11!!11...jeez...
A PPU deserves god mode because he can do no damage. Simple as that. A ppu cant outheal a 10 member team. A PPU is very vulnerable while rezzing especially if there is an APU around that can antibuff.
they nerfed the para too... (it should be removed completely though ;) )
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 00:12
Shodan your bias is blinding me please turn it down a notch.
PPUs do not DO NOT deserve god mode. I dont know what else I can say to change your mind otherwise i have a feeling noone can help u now... im sorry... ur beyond helping. Maybe if u didnt play a ppu u would see the light... until then i give up.
I just like to add... until the last week of beta i didnt even see what a ressurect did. For a couple months before that i leveled many many characters and not a single one got a res. Hell it was harder to level I think back then. Yet you guys seem to think it will be the end of the world.
Originally posted by Omnituens
rez needed a tweak
but KK doesnt do tweaks
PARA needed this type of nerf, not rez
WE HAVE A WINNAR
Originally posted by Ferabukoo
WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NERF THE REZ.. ITS THE PARA THAT EVERYONE CRIES ABOUT.. I WOULD AGREE IT DOES NEED TO HAVE ITS ROF REDUCED AND MANA COST UPPED BUT ITS LIKE... POEPLE COMPLAIN ALL DAY ABOUT THE PARA... AND COMPLAIN AND COMPLAIN THEN KK LISTENS AND THEY NERF THE REZ.. WTF
MAYBE WE ARE NOT SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE AS KK. MAYBE WE SHOULD GO OFF AND LEAN NERF LANGUAGE OR SLUDGEHAMMER.. MAYBE SO
hahahahahahhahahaha hahahahhah hahhahahahahahaha
hahhahahahahahaha hahahahahahah hahahah haha hhah
hahahahah hahah haha ha hah ahahhahaha hahh haha hhah
ahahehehehhe h eheh hahah ha hih i hihi i h ihiahahah hhe hehe
hah hah hho ho ho ho ohoohoohohohoh hehehehhhah hahaha
hehehihihihh ihehheehehahhahahaahahahhaha
[ edited ]
Im sorry ferabobo but I really dont like you. Your anguish makes
me feel really really good. :lol:
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:15
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Shodan your bias is blinding me please turn it down a notch.
PPUs do not DO NOT deserve god mode. I dont know what else I can say to change your mind otherwise i have a feeling noone can help u now... im sorry... ur beyond helping. Maybe if u didnt play a ppu u would see the light... until then i give up.
it could be time to lom to apu again....
or hybrid
hm.......
ok who is in favor of KK instantly changingn my monk to APU so that you will all get rid of my carebaerish pro-ppu behavior?? ;-)
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
it could be time to lom to apu again....
or hybrid
hm.......
ok who is in favor of KK instantly changingn my monk to APU so that you will all get rid of my carebaerish pro-ppu behavior?? ;-)
Ill pay for the LoMs.
i think our UBAR JEDI!!!1!!11!1 should make a return here ^_^
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - spam ]
i like the nerf...
im sick of noobs winning fights just because they are 3/4 ppus reezing all the time...
the only bad thing is that mc5 is gonna be impossible then :I
anyway i still think its a good thing
.cy
Glad to see this change. It was ridiculous that, as a droner, a ppu could come up and rezz my kill and i could not kill the ppu while he was rezzing nor kill the runner i just killed. The rezz spell wasn't just overplayed, it became a way of life. This needed to be done.
The only real problem i see currently is that it will make a single ppu's job harder if he has to rezz an entire hunting party that had a unsuccessful round in the caves. But yeah, rezzing was really overplayed. Maybe people will think twice about going places and instill a little well needed fear of dying back in this game.
And yes, .cyl0n is right, mc5 will no doubt need to be toned down. I am not spending over an hour for one commander kill, that is for sure.
IM STARTING TO BELIEVE THAT KK DOESNT LISTEN FOR SHIT.. ALL THEY LISTEN TO IS SHADOW DANCER AND RADE BITCH AND MOAN AND CRY ABOUT PPU'S
SURE THE PARA IS TOO MUCH I AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE REDUCED BUT WHEN DID ALL THIS TALK ABOUT REZ COME IN.. OH WELL I GUESS... NOW ITS JUST GOING TO BE MY DESTINY TO PARA SPAM EVERYONE AND THEIR DAMN GRANDMA
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:22
Originally posted by Rade
Ill pay for the LoMs.
Time is the only problem. And loosing ever more psi levels!!!!!
Bah ill see during the weekend!!!!
Rade, do make a thread about ur idea of making rezz a rare spell. It is really good (honest).
slaughteruall
09-12-03, 00:22
Ah screw it not even worth posting in here
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Time is the only problem. And loosing ever more psi levels!!!!!
Bah ill see during the weekend!!!!
Rade, do make a thread about ur idea of making rezz a rare spell. It is really good (honest).
I dont have the willpower to do that atm, Ill get on it tomorrow or
something.
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:25
Originally posted by Rade
I dont have the willpower to do that atm, Ill get on it tomorrow or
something.
What, you are running out of fire resist drugs??
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 00:26
The increased rezz time doesn't solve anything. Pardon, the one thing it will change is a team with more PPUs beating a team with less PPUs. Instead of the fucking rezz nerf, they need to implement something to remove dead bodies from battle. All they are doing now is fucking the PPU royally. With this new nerf, an APU will have at least 10 full casts of antibuff before ONE rezz is done.
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 00:27
Um ghandis thats the point... they dont want u ressing at all when there is an enemy around.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
What, you are running out of fire resist drugs??
roflmao, yeppers. Im thinking of actually logging on to neocron,
just realised Ive been like surfing and whoring forums for 6 hours
but not played anything 8|
i agree when this reez nerf goes retail... antibuff should be toned down like the same for sure !
.cy
shodanjr_gr
09-12-03, 00:34
Originally posted by Rade
roflmao, yeppers. Im thinking of actually logging on to neocron,
just realised Ive been like surfing and whoring forums for 6 hours
but not played anything 8|
bah, u>me ive only been paraspaming people in here for 3 hours.
Heck im about to reach QDs level of uber spamness. 46 posts in this session!!!
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 00:37
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Um ghandis thats the point... they dont want u ressing at all when there is an enemy around.
Either way psyco, *this* change doesn't solve anything but make hunting in high level areas (or low level if you're huting with noobs) miserable....does it? A clan with 4 PPUs will now OWN a clan with 1 or 2 PPUs simply becuase they can have two of them resserecting, and 2 of them healing/damage boosting/etc......Why not just make a tool that removes people from battle. Then you've killed two birds with one stone A)other classes will be needed at OP wars B) solves endless resserecting.
Or am I missing the point? meh......back to soldering
Well from my PPU perspective, I think the nerf is complete crap and way overdone.
BUT, I actually won't mind too much if it hits retail, because I don't like resurrecting anyways (clarify: I hate doing it, not its existence or current usage). I like having a 10/min resurrect, but I don't know, I just don't like doing it. It's a pain in the ass. It wastes my time because I have to rebuff and reshield the person, and most people I rezz just stand there for a minute, for some reason (I love the people that just jump right back into whatever they were doing without waiting for me to rebuff them), again, wasting time. At least PPUing for 8 people in clan hunts or random-team hunts won't be such a damn pain in the ass anymore, namely because some people get so utterly fucking careless with themselves when I show up. I'll be able to PPU for a few people and not worry about having to rezz a careless idiot 15 times while the rest of my clan or team is getting whooped. You die, you gr. Sorry, sucks to be you.
Oh, and if the final rof numbers come out to be anything less than 4/min on a holy rezz, I'm not rezzing anymore. It's just the excuse I need anyways :p
And from my PE/Spy perspective, I really don't give a crap either way. I don't do op wars on any of my characters and all of my non-ppu characters have LE anyways, so I don't care, am not used to, and don't need rezzing. I utterly hate dying. I'm the most cautious person I know when it comes to hunting, so I rarely ever die to mobs (which shows in the way that my con always lags SOOO far behind my other stats :(). Besides, I don't like laying there for 10 minutes waiting for a PPU to rezz me. By the time I gr, get poked, and come back, I haven't missed much; especially since a lot of my characters can poke themselves.
Oh well. The resurrection nerf seems pretty sledgehammerly done and I don't like it, but as with all other things I'll eventually adjust.
And as a further clarification. None of this is related to op wars. I don't do op wars and I only pvp about 5% of my game time anyways. So this is from a PvM/leveling perspective.
Ghand is right. It changes nothing in op wars. The clan with the most PPUs will still win.
It does totally screw up levelling. Sure you don't need PPUs to level, but it will be more frustrating for anyone who isn't a PPU.
A better system suggested would be put a reasonable amount of SI on the person when they are rezzed (which resets when they die). Say 5%-10%. It stops the op war being brought back quickly.
All I can say is.. let the nerf come :lol:
Oh yea, if your a PPU don't bother poking people either. :p :lol:
Its like i've been sayin in buddy, PPU's will become a hell of a lot more needed than now. You'll need a PPU to rez, and a PPU to buff the PPU that is ressurecting.
MC5 will be totally impossible, without a team of 3 or 4 PPU's.
PPU's will still be just as unkillable, the only people that will suffer are people who now lose their rare's because a pure PPU didnt have enough mana to cast a holy rez, and is sure as heck not going to stand still for a minute.
There will no longer be any tussles in PP, if a PPU or two shows up, who's going to rez the dead people when they are being shot to fuck by people exploiting using the certain one that ensures a PPU rez FAILS, oh, and of course the TL3 heals that the PPU is sure to get during the rez time.
People who think this is going to improve PvP, are wrong, and you cant compare it to before, before people didnt tweak resists and damage for 15 months, to be able to kill 10 people in under a minute.
I'm totally against this nerf. This will seriously hurt PvM and won't really do much for Op wars anyways.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 01:00
You know what this'll do? Maybe? Just perhaps?
It'll make the PPU a support class.
God-fucking-forbid!
The PPU boosts the abilities of the team beyond compare. That much is clear. However, in this situation, the team should work to defend the PPU, as he is vital to the team objective. The PPU should not be able to stand an army of people hammering at him, no way no how.
In Team Fortress Classic, how much armour does a medic have? How many rockets can an engineer take? Oh, that's right, virtually zero on both counts.
Want to know why?
They're the support characters.
They shouldn't be getting shot at. If a PPU gets hammered, he should die. If your team's PPU gets attacked, that's shitty teamplay on your part. Get some skills.
This rezz nerf will hopefully make people FALL BACK and DEFEND their PPU. Which is what the class should be.
Oh, and my DS pops all the time. Haven't needed to get it repaired once, and a trip to Plaza 1 isn't that bad. Suck it up, I've got no sympathy for weak little bitches like yourselves.
tbh mumbly, this nerf effects hybrids like you the least. You have much more mana than a specialist PPU, so you'll still cast it in 40 seconds, BUT, you will be able to heal/shelter/deflect yourself first, and then rez, without needing to take a booster in between.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 01:07
I don't use a rezz spell.
I got one once. I sold it to Yo's.
Ressurection ruins the game.
Hell, I don't even give level 3 buffs to people in the Chaos Caves. Even my pistol spy isn't completely dependent on having some PPU tits to suck on. Some people need to learn to harden up, or stay in their depth.
I think I'm going to go into the whole "don't go Chaos Caving without poison resist, fuckwad" argument again... please, hold me back...
you rezzed me at fn when we were messing about, remember fn? that fun fight thing, goes on for 90 minutes? Now, 40 seconds out of every minute, will have to be spent on ressurection, leaving 20 seconds of fight night. 20 seconds times 90 = 30 minutes worth of fighting, 1 HOURS worth of ressurection. Anyone else see a problem with the math?
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 01:12
Yeah, I always pack a storebought rezz spell for an occasion like that. But I didn't feel like that was a valid part of my argument.
Adding that time shouldn't be a problem. As soon as the person hits the floor, start a rezz going. He should be up well before the combatants for the next fight are ready.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
After reading the test server patch notes, holy rez being 40 second cast, and 300 mana, i'm retiring my PPU's rez spell. If you die, you die, end of story, you can GR out, find a poker etc.
Any other PPU's who want to join in, feel free to.
The aim:
To show everyone who whines about nerfing Rez, that without it, they require pokes, they get synaptic, they require hard to find tradeskillers to replace stuff lost in inventories, if you show KK "now" how fucked up the idea is, maybe they will actually listen.
As it currently stands, my Rez time is 12 seconds, thats 3 seconds shorter than my heal.
Lexx? Are you dumb or what? How does that remove "Rez" from the game? All it does is makes sure that you don't have PPUs resurrecting people in the middle of a fight. You win the fight, feel free to bring your friends back to life! If you lose the fight, well, then you GR anyway and have to get repoked ANYWAY! This in no way removes viability of the spell from PvM! And might actually require some damned strategy in massive OP battles where someone important goes down, all remaining forces defend the PPU while he is bringing them back. All this does is make OP fights more interesting, not more 1-sided, because now the side with the most PPUs will not necessarily be the winner. This is one of the best ideas KK has had to date!
Stop whining people!
Have two arenas, fight in one while the loser of the other is being ressurected. I doubt very much whether KK would skip class balance just to make Fight Night a little more convenient.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 01:14
Originally posted by Lareolan
...And might actually require some damned strategy in massive OP battles where someone important goes down, all remaining forces defend the PPU while he is bringing them back. All this does is make OP fights more interesting, not more 1-sided, because now the side with the most PPUs will not necessarily be the winner. This is one of the best ideas KK has had to date!
You're on a roll! :)
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 01:17
Lexx your crazy it will take hybrids much longer to cast the spell then ppu's. Theres no way in fucking hell a hybrid will cap a holy rez so 40 seconds is out of the picture already. Now if they can manage to cap the tl 55 res then they will have 60 second rez at the least.
I honestly dont know many hybrids that have a bigger psi pool then me I dont see how its possible for them to afford the points in ppw like i can.
Originally posted by Lareolan
Lexx? Are you dumb or what? How does that remove "Rez" from the game? All it does is makes sure that you don't have PPUs resurrecting people in the middle of a fight. !
it will mean you will require MORE PPU's to ressurect people, people become PPU's because its needed, now they will be MORE needed for Op wars, for MC5 and other high level content that requires a PPU?
If you want it to be removed from Op wars, just make Rez not work in a Warzone, please ALL the whiners :rolleyes:
/edit @ above - the spell is set @ 40 seconds according to patch notes PK, no matter what your level.
- Fixed psi energy consumption of resurrect spells. (150 energy, 60 seconds for Res and 300 energy, 40 seconds for Holy Res)
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 01:21
It doesnt seem that way to me.... i had a storebought res and thanks to the new city admin guards on the test server i had half my implants nocked out so the res was not capped... it took well over 60 seconds to cast the normal res.
Also when i was impared it read 0/min even though i was able to use it.
(Im pretty sure they mean cap lexxuk)
It was always slower if you didnt cap it i doubt they would change that now.
possibly milage variation, my retail HR is 6/min, and takes 12 seconds, which is really 5/min.
/edit @ above - u type to fast :p actually, i dunno what to reply to that, i was looking at the test notes, and 40 seconds seemed like complete hell, which is equiv of 6 seconds on retail currently. mines twice current retail = 80 seconds (my math :p )
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
A PPU deserves god mode because he can do no damage. Simple as that. A ppu cant outheal a 10 member team.
I 100% agree, PPU's should have god mode. However to make them balanced, we have to remove them from being able to buff others, heal others, affect other, para other, and soul cluster others.
FYI, good PPU's outheal well over 10 person teams...
Back to reality...
The reason PPU's need a nerf is, they affect battle SOO much. Take a 4 or 5 regular tanks, make them fight an APU+PPU duo. If that duo is any good, the tanks are going to be laid out in moments. PPU's affect battle more then any one other class because they are SO hard to kill and make anyone they are working with exponentially harder to kill. They can't have it both ways.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 01:23
Originally posted by Lexxuk
it will mean you will require MORE PPU's to ressurect people, people become PPU's because its needed, now they will be MORE needed for Op wars, for MC5 and other high level content that requires a PPU?
No, more PPUs won't be needed. More tanks and PEs will be needed to defend the PPU they have, and to prevent him getting attacked.
Edit:
I 100% agree, PPU's should have god mode.
Come on now, why? Neocron is the ONLY game I've EVER played where the class that can give boosts and resurrect is the most powerful. In every other RPG they're the first to drop. So it should be. Like I said, that would involve balanced teams to defend the PPU.
But we can't have that now, can we?
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
No, more PPUs won't be needed. More tanks and PEs will be needed to defend the PPU they have, and to prevent him getting attacked.
no, i've said it once, i've said it at least once more than that. a PPU's BEST defence, is his heal, with full buffs, he can be taken down, with full buffs AND heal, he can out heal anything, so with a PPU up a PPU's ass with self cast buffs, the PPU still manages to stay just as powerful/unkillable.
/edit - stupid frikken edit button, i hate it - ppu's shouldnt have god mode @ all, nothing should, but they should be very hard to kill, but not impossible. A 4 second hab + 40 second rez = dead PPU.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
/edit - stupid frikken edit button, i hate it - ppu's shouldnt have god mode @ all, nothing should, but they should be very hard to kill, but not impossible. A 4 second hab + 40 second rez = dead PPU.
Thats the point, it shouldnt be easy to rez in combat
Eh yah people who say the longer rez times won't be able to rez during battle, thats the point. Why increase anti-buff? The point is the PPU shouldnt be rezzing during combat. If an APU is there fighting you then I guess you would technically be in combat, with the you know, fighting and all. That was the motivation for the change, so saying its a result is well, obvious.
Personally I'm holding off judgement on it till something hits retail and I test it out with MY PPU, but it looks pretty decent. Hopefully it will be for the best but you never know.
It's nice to see blatantly biased opinions on both sides of the argument.
Negatives:
1) MC5 will be impossible or highly improbable. I have never gone to MC5 and not seen anyone in the team die at least once. Death at MC5 ruins a camping session and is an invitation for others to move in and take the place.
2) Do some of you serously have MC5 chips? My DS has take a huge beating. It pops on a regular basis, much more often then any other imp. And I'm a ppu, I die less frequently then others.
3) I friggin hate dying! Anything that increases the number of times I hafta organize my fuckin inventory is a huge turn off. I often just quit NC all together because it's so aggrivating. The only other class that keeps an organized inventory is a PE, but they can get away with a minimum in their inventory unlike us.
4) Timesinks are bad mmkay. This will shorten fights and lengthen down time between them. Find a poker, Find a repairer, etc.
5) This will effect PVM more then PVP. Ontop of that it will effect low/mid level ppu's more then high/capped. I can't imagine seriously waitin a minute... or even longer for ressurect to finnaly cast. Let me just pull up a book and do something entertaining with my time.
6) PPU's stress level will actualy increase, because we have to keep people alive. If someone dies, we're screwed. Areas like the crystal cave and graves will drive me crazy. At op fights as well, as if we don't have enough things to do already now we must keep people alive.
7) As a result of #6 many ppu's will give up, but some will rise to the occasion. People who have the skill to manage a team and keep them alive.. Which means certain clans/teams will become that much better then the others due to their ppu. Sounds to me like ppu's will still be the deciding factor in a fight.
8) So you managed to wait for a minute, or longer and pulled off a ressurect. Your teamate now has barely any health and is pulling himself together, chances of dying again are very high. If ressurect is supposed to be this amazing ppu power, why not let it fully ressurect someone? Bring them alive with full health, I spent friggin 1 minute castin this spell, it better do somethin impressive.
Positives: (much shorter list)
1) People will value their lives much more then they do now. People autmaticly turn into kamikazes when they know a friendly ppu is nearby. Now they'll just end up being a doormat for the enemy to walk over.
2) Prevent one ppu from magicly bringing her entire team back to life and forcing you to fight the people you just killed.. again... and again.. until the ppu gives up and gr's out.
3) Reducing ppu's influence is always good.
4) I suppose Mobs might be more interesting, in that some will be impossible or extremely hard. Unlike now were only one area on the map springs to mind as difficult, and even that isn't very bad.
In summation the positives are mostly pvp related, the negatives are both pvp and pvm. Net loss here, is PVM. Just as always happens, others get shafted because of pvp "improvements".
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Come on now, why? Neocron is the ONLY game I've EVER played where the class that can give boosts and resurrect is the most powerful. In every other RPG they're the first to drop. So it should be. Like I said, that would involve balanced teams to defend the PPU.
But we can't have that now, can we?
No we can have that. They can be disposable ppus. They cast all the buffs you want then they die :rolleyes:
Oh btw, how many fps rpg games have you played that defensive chars drop first?
•Super|\|ova•
09-12-03, 01:47
Only bad thing on this is the PvM side. On PvP this rules.
no point in me saying anything...kk hurry up with my white pa so i can finally be a novelty item in plaza 1.
Originally posted by Ivory
no point in me saying anything...kk hurry up with my white pa so i can finally be a novelty item in plaza 1.
Copbots will see us as a threat to civilization and shoot us on site. Maybe the mutants will take us in ; )
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 02:14
The mutants will have you permabanned for going within a billion yards of Dark Metal.
is this thread ment to scare people into wanting the resurect changed back?
all you PPUS can boycott ressing people, cant even recall the last time i got ressed anyway.
Originally posted by Carinth
1) MC5 will be impossible or highly improbable. I have never gone to MC5 and not seen anyone in the team die at least once. Death at MC5 ruins a camping session and is an invitation for others to move in and take the place.
Agreed, MC5 will need some changes but if KK needs to re-design one place to help balance the game I think we can beat the idea into their heads.
Originally posted by Carinth
2) Do some of you seriously have MC5 chips? My DS has taken a huge beating. It pops on a regular basis, much more often then any other imp. And I'm a ppu, I die less frequently then others.
At the moment I don't have an MC5 chip, but I understand where you're coming from (being I had Kami and PSI core in at the same time at one point). However, I think that MC5 chips shouldn’t last that long. They are a pain in the ass in all aspects, but give a large bonus.
Originally posted by Carinth
3) I friggin hate dying! Anything that increases the number of times I hafta organize my fuckin inventory is a huge turn off. I often just quit NC all together because it's so aggravating. The only other class that keeps an organized inventory is a PE, but they can get away with a minimum in their inventory unlike us.
My PE does not keep an organized inventory when he dies :P I just re-do it while I wait off synap. However, I think that when you die KK should code it so your crap was in the same spot it was before. I mean if we can re-build humans and the like I'm sure we can remember where our stuff was.
Originally posted by Carinth
4) Timesinks are bad mmkay. This will shorten fights and lengthen down time between them. Find a poker, Find a repairer, etc.
Only if people don't learn to fight. No more head-long attacks like I usually pull at op wars. Everyone will have to work as a team (same with PP, unless you're going solo and in that case this whole PPU bit doesn’t mean shit to you).
Originally posted by Carinth
5) This will effect PVM more then PVP. Ontop of that it will effect low/mid level ppu's more then high/capped. I can't imagine seriously waitin a minute... or even longer for resurrect to finally cast. Let me just pull up a book and do something entertaining with my time.
It’s really not that bad, when I was leveling my PPU on Pluto in the caves I was casting 30-45 sec rez's (thank you 1 slot uber rez!). You get used to it, your teammates learn to run back for heals when they "might" need one instead of risking it.
Originally posted by Carinth
6) PPU's stress level will actually increase, because we have to keep people alive. If someone dies, we're screwed. Areas like the crystal cave and graves will drive me crazy. At op fights as well, as if we don't have enough things to do already now we must keep people alive.
True, but its not like anyone is forcing you guys to play PPU's. If you find op fights stressfully or no fun, lom to hybrid, APU, or just re-roll.
Originally posted by Carinth
7) As a result of #6 many ppu's will give up, but some will rise to the occasion. People who have the skill to manage a team and keep them alive.. Which means certain clans/teams will become that much better then the others due to their ppu. Sounds to me like ppu's will still be the deciding factor in a fight.
True, very true
Originally posted by Carinth
8) So you managed to wait for a minute, or longer and pulled off a resurrect. Your teammate now has barely any health and is pulling himself together, chances of dying again are very high. If resurrect is supposed to be this amazing ppu power, why not let it fully resurrect someone? Bring them alive with full health, I spent friggin 1 minute castin this spell, it better do something impressive.
Fair enough, make people rez at 1/2 or 3/4's health.
hahahaha, nice sig keiron
Thanks, its real too (unlike GOD to who took it and photochopped his name into it:( )
Edit - [Grammer > me]
I wonder why the PPU has to suffer for those who died.
Originally posted by Spex
I wonder why the PPU has to suffer for those who died. cos it was there para spam and damage boost that were at the root of the death:p
Originally posted by Keiron
Thanks, its real too (unlike GOD to who took it and photochopped his name into it:( )
Edit - [Grammer > me]
yeah, sure it is :rolleyes:
ok, another nerf.. i don't mind.. but im still pissed off that i cant level as a ppu from scratch without great difficulty.. and a helluva lot slower than all those apus who lom at a high level.. (wheres the sense in that?) i still cant do shit on my own... im still everyones bitch, this just means that my levelling is cut short.. because if i cant rez people then they'll gr out and wont come back in all likelihood.. and i cant solo caves o_O
i just want something in return.. thats all...
Spectra260
09-12-03, 03:25
talk about sludgehammer....
something did need to be done about the rez spell, but not this.
the problem are the PPU's who are very very tuff being able to run around OP wars while theres 6+ people trying to kill them and standing still to rez someone.
they need to make it so that if theres more than like 2 people shooting at you, or you sustain massive damage while in the middle of a rez it cancles the rez, thats all they had to do...
40 seconds is to much.... 300 mana is to much... i dunno even know if my PPU has 300 mana:rolleyes:
like i said, all they should of done was take out all things that parashock, even the guns, and make it so a PPU cant just rez someone while under heavy fire.
I personally don't have that much of a problem with it, I have stuck with the monk class since beta 4 (for my main char anyway) and have been through thick and thin (early retail), I ain't about to change my char now, so what it takes longer to rez?
Rez is a luxury item, not needed. IMO I think that if someone does rez mid fight they will (or at least should be) targetted as the player to kill, generally this will boil down to rez'es only happening at the end, by the winning team.
Bleh, it may be good it may be bad, can never tell till we actually try it in a proper OP war on a proper server.....
maybe it is a luxury item genty, maybe not. thats what this rez boycott is all about, to show people what the game is going to be like due to these nerfs.
op wars over in under a minute, so not really worth showing upto.
leveling areas with ppus? you would need a capped ppu to keep everyone alive
MC5? Doesnt imo need any changes what so ever, the damage is just right as it is right now, same as the loot rate. I, as a PPU, will still not die there (at ALL, i die there now, if this nerf comes in, i'd never put my PPU into any risk), but fuck my team, they die, they can go get a poke and come back, i'm not risking my implants/spells.
This is a typical KK move.
Yet another instance of them using an ax where a scalpel would be more appropriate.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
maybe it is a luxury item genty, maybe not. thats what this rez boycott is all about, to show people what the game is going to be like due to these nerfs.
How does PPU's not rez'ing anyone and PPU's taking longer to rez mean the same thing. Stop acting like a child.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
op wars over in under a minute, so not really worth showing upto.
Op wars are only going to be shorter if you run headlong into an area loaded with enemies and die. I believe people are intelligent enough to know learn rushing the enemy's APU gank squad solo means death.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
leveling areas with ppus? you would need a capped ppu to keep everyone alive
Again, people will learn. Rez's are going to be a big deal now, no more running into chaos caves without any armor and punching the mobs for con xp.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
MC5? Doesnt imo need any changes what so ever, the damage is just right as it is right now, same as the loot rate. I, as a PPU, will still not die there (at ALL, i die there now, if this nerf comes in, i'd never put my PPU into any risk), but fuck my team, they die, they can go get a poke and come back, i'm not risking my implants/spells.
MC5 does need a change, either damage needs to be toned down, or KK needs to redesign it (maybe put in glass again, but make it to thick to exploit with). At the moment, it’s the only place in the game (besides going into the city with Neg SL) where if you are very careful you still will die.
good
res is pansy, it makes dying absolutely meaningless in every way
KRIMINAL99
09-12-03, 05:29
WHY IN THE HECK ARE THEY NERFING THEIR ABILITIES INSTEAD OF THEIR DEFENSES...
thats all i have to say
Shadow Dancer
09-12-03, 06:25
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Look on the bright side, OP warfare will become more definitive, and at the end of the battle there'll be plenty of time to rez the dead on your side since the enemy will be vanquished. The losing side will be the ones forced to generep and get poked, the winners won't have a problem.
As for hunting, well a PPU can keep themselves alive long enough in PvM for a resurrection to be carried out - if they can't stay alive against mobs then they're in the wrong job !
I completely agree. Also, perhaps................PvM with a ppu will become a challenge then. omgomgomgomogo
Originally posted by Lexxuk
As it currently stands, my Rez time is 12 seconds, thats 3 seconds shorter than my heal.
It takes you 9 seconds to cast heal?
:eek:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
YOU DONT NEED RESSURECTION TO LEVEL!!
I agree. Death already has close to no real penalty as it is.
Originally posted by Dont Mess
i dont play on pluto but SD complains soo much are u telling me he runs round woth no PPU. i highly doubt it there are not many apus that are good with out a ppu. only1 in saturn that can last more then 10mins is EtheReal
I was an apu who went solo alot. I leveled alone. 95% of the time, when I was fighting alongside a ppu, it was because it was an op war.
Anyways i'm hybrid now, so I can buff up anyways.
Originally posted by Nexxy
And come off all these lame excuses for why it shouldnt be changed. There was a time when hardly anyone could rez people still lvled PVPed and had fun and shit. Its not bad, its a good change.
Nexx has a point. I THINK, the problem is too many people got spoiled by ressurection. First of all, now we have belts and safeslot. That already makes death have less of a penalty. How much less of a penalty people want. o_O
PvM with a ppu is already easy enough as it is. If you're with a team and you die, the team can draw fire while the PPU resses. If you die with only a ppu at your side, then that means you die with a ppu concentrating only on you. Their should be SOME penalty to death, or some fear of it.
IMO.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
And Sd is making a point????rrrrriiiiigghhhtt.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
lol, just because you disagree with it doesn't mean I don't make a point.
I RARELY RARELY RARELY ever say "nerf ppus!" and that's it. I almost always provide reasons, examples, and arguements. Unlike a good # of ppus on this forum who just say "OMFG NERF NEFERS SD SUX TEH LOOSER LOLOLO" and don't add anything.
Originally posted by Rade
The resurrection should be the epitome of the PPUs power,
afterall bringing someone back to life should be a rare. Only
capped PPUs should be able to do it and imo it should be the
rarest fucking spell there is as well. People should come running
from all over the zone just to see it be done when they see the
effect from afar.
rofllmao
Somewhat of an exaggeration, but I kinda agree with you.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
A PPU deserves god mode because he can do no damage. Simple as that. A ppu cant outheal a 10 member team. A PPU is very vulnerable while rezzing especially if there is an APU around that can antibuff.
First of all, you're only proving that apus are "needed" as well. And apus are MONKS! So you're just showing the imbalance of "team"play. They should call it "monk"play.
Btw, an apu has horrible defense, I guess that means he should be able to kill 10 people at once with his offense. *sarcasm*
Originally posted by bounty
The only real problem i see currently is that it will make a single ppu's job harder if he has to rezz an entire hunting party that had a unsuccessful round in the caves.
IMO that's not a problem. Why should the PPU be able to res an entire team in front of mobs. Is he now a savior sent from the heavens?
In the chaos caves if 2 of my teammates died, I quickly took a much more defensive role and focusing on proving "cover fire" so the PPU could res. I mean if an entire team dies..............um.....maybe they should be penalized? :p
Originally posted by Ferabukoo
IM STARTING TO BELIEVE THAT KK DOESNT LISTEN FOR SHIT.. ALL THEY LISTEN TO IS SHADOW DANCER AND RADE BITCH AND MOAN AND CRY ABOUT PPU'S
O_o
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i agree when this reez nerf goes retail... antibuff should be toned down like the same for sure !
.cy
Yes because antibuff wasn't meant to be used in battle either. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I honestly dont know many hybrids that have a bigger psi pool then me I dont see how its possible for them to afford the points in ppw like i can.
I'm a powerful hybrid, and I have capped mana. :p
*ahem*
In short i'd like to say that I think KK went a bit too far with the change, but I like it anyways. I think it brings back some challenge in PvM, and it fixes the PvP problem of ressing in combat. Or at least helps to alleviate it.
That's pretty much it.
nvm SD i just thought about it again and i think PPUs are even harder to kill after the next patch... ( no paraspam ppu anymore... )... a lower HAB rof would make it even harder... so its ok like it is imo
.cy
Originally posted by Lexxuk
After reading the test server patch notes, holy rez being 40 second cast, and 300 mana, i'm retiring my PPU's rez spell. If you die, you die, end of story, you can GR out, find a poker etc.
Any other PPU's who want to join in, feel free to.
The aim:
To show everyone who whines about nerfing Rez, that without it, they require pokes, they get synaptic, they require hard to find tradeskillers to replace stuff lost in inventories, if you show KK "now" how fucked up the idea is, maybe they will actually listen.
As it currently stands, my Rez time is 12 seconds, thats 3 seconds shorter than my heal.
[edited for violation of the forum rules] As if rezz time matters in pvm. But its a serious problem in pvp and THIS might finally fix it without the need of a big fat ppu nerf and i am sure you dont want that.
kthxbye
Original monk
09-12-03, 10:14
Thanx to all the nerf the ppuwhiners: KK is killing yet another good class, i wonder whats next after the rezz and paranerf ...
i DIDNT HEAR ALL THE PEOPLE WHINE AGAINST THE PPUNERF WHEN THEY WHERE ABOUT TO PUT IT IN, SO DONT GO WHINING NOW, CAUSE 9 OUTTA 10 ITS TO LATE ALLREADY ....
stupid game, first give us heaven, then nerf us to hell and back :/
make up youre mind ok ...
anyone selling an APUkami ????
Hmm....
I have to say i totally agree with this nerf, even if its that hard as it is now.
I mean come on pvm? whats the point in that? you can still get easily rezzed in pvm, yeah maybe not if 6 cavemops are around the ppu, but this situation doesnt get harder just cause of the longer rezz time.
The nerf just rules pvp situation, skills will count again finally. Zerging wont help anymore cause if i slice through 3 apus they STAY down at least for a "long" while and dont attack me again 4 seconds later.
Another question, isnt it easier to slap a heal on someone to keep him alive then to stand and try to rezz him in combat? From this point of view keeping ppl alive is far easier then to bring them up again.
Another point, why should rezzing be impossible in pvp? Just take the fire of your ppu, i mean thats what you are supposed to do anyway CAUSE you are the FIGHTING person;) i mean if you see that the whole attackers go for your ppu when he starts rezzing, just go for the attackers, i mean i just imagine myself standing behind a tank who is attacking my rezzing ppu with a gat and i stand behind him with my cs baby and nuke the hell out of him, how long do you think he will go on attacking my ppu? not for long thats for sure, situation even gets worse if its not a cs that nukes in;) (yeah try to kill the ppu under full apu fire, come on just try it:lol: ).
Yeah you are right if only the ppu and 1 fighter is left and there are 5 attackers left you are fucked, but you are fucked with the quick rezz too in that situation.
I mean just CHANGE, the game changes so you have to change.I mean you dont have to stand on top of a body to rezz your rezz spell has a range (at least a little:lol: )
All over all pvp will be more fun then before, and even if ALL your imps pop out 15 times a day your mc5 will last a year at least if you dont go to shitty reppers all the time.
Only thing i agree is that MC5 will be impossible.
Yeah come on flame me:cool:
Now, make the para non castable on runners as well and we're all set :)
<--- PPU
And yes, all the whiners who whined before about rezzing and ppus... now you have your reward. Enjoy all good things in life, as MC5 and laying dead for 30 mins.
Original monk
09-12-03, 10:48
They wanted nerfed spells, now they have em ...
I aint happy about this screw up ...
All i hear is: now finally skill will return to this game ... what skill lol ?? if someone is about to die they zonehop anyway o_O
I dont call ganking a noob with 8 capped chars skill .... actually, of all the time i play neocron, i havent seen alot of actions that where caused by skill ... the ones yelling skill the hardest are the ones that if they die relog to be rezzed by a ppu later ... those are also the ones yelling nerf the hardest ...
i call skill killing an army of 20 people with a sniperrifle witouth being spotted: i dont call running around eachother being annoying with a libby or rolh skill (certainly not when you run around the corner every 2 secs to heal up with an overpowerd heal :/ )
ya cant call a person really "skilled" in neocron: even the most skilled person can have a fatal in the middle of batle .. bye bye skill :) dead skilled person ...
You guys are talking about skill when it has nothing to do with reztime ... only crap to have an excuse to nerf the ppu ... when ya actually prefer to remove it if youre honestly .... but will whine later on when YOU dont get youre rezz in time ...
skill ? skill my ass yeah, i still gotta see the first person that i say of: daamn thats a skilled person: i all seen em die, even the most so called skilled ones: wheres youre skill when you get ganked by a copbot ?? thats also youre own stupid fault not ?
quote: "brings the skill back to pvp"
----> then i point at you and laugh in youre face ... what skill lol ? point and click the fastest ?? woow
After the nerf you will get to know skilled ppls and unskilled ppls trust me:)
And yeah fatal, yes then you fatal and? everyone can fatal, what if the ppu fatals? cant get that pointo_O
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 11:05
what skill lol ? point and click the fastest ?? woow
This may surprise you, but in a game with an FPS interface, being able to aim and fire really fast is indeed a skill.
And for all the PPUs whining - try keeping teamies alive. Ressurection is a last ditch attempt for WHEN YOU'VE FUCKED UP. That's for both the PPU and the other party in question.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
And for all the PPUs whining - try keeping teamies alive. Ressurection is a last ditch attempt for WHEN YOU'VE FUCKED UP. That's for both the PPU and the other party in question.
No it is when the player fucks up not the PPU. :rolleyes:
I've lost count the number of times idiots have run into a large group mobs shouting "HEAL ME! HEAL ME!" and expecting me to able to get a lock to heal them, then when they are rezzed they run into the group again before I can even buff them.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 11:11
Then in that situation, your "teammate" is an assflag. Stop supporting him.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Then in that situation, your "teammate" is an assflag. Stop supporting him.
lmao, yeah you are right, but you cant stop supporting 90% of all ppls:D
Originally posted by Phönyx
lmao, yeah you are right, but you cant stop supporting 90% of all ppls:D
:( yeah. Cause those 90% get all gung-ho and Braveheart when I show up. They see an 85/60*** ppu and automatically go "w00t, i r teh 1337 now. . . .CHARGE!!" and head all kamikaze like right into the middle of 10 mobs.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 11:21
Then the PPU gets the joy of watching his arse crash and burn.
I'd love to be a PPU in that situation :D
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Then in that situation, your "teammate" is an assflag. Stop supporting him.
:rolleyes:
I am tempted to reroll.. not because of the nerf but because of the crap coming from some pepople.
A PPU is not a god. The general rule for a PPU is 'don't die, you die the team dies'. So if I am getting whacked on I can't save my team mates, so they die. Then I am expected to rez them and it is my fault for letting them die.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 11:32
Originally posted by Archeus
So if I am getting whacked on I can't save my team mates, so they die. Then I am expected to rez them and it is my fault for letting them die.
Actually, if you're "getting whacked on" then your teammates deserve to die. To be frank, they are SHIT.
Genrep out at the first opportunity and find some people who aren't chimps.
Original monk
09-12-03, 11:51
fact is and stays: nerfing the ppu will lead to some inbalances (allready check out the "holy antibuff thread" to start with) plus the fact that being a ppu isnt always the most fun job to do ... now there making it even more worse ... in this game killing people and being annoying is much easier then helping people out by healing and rezzurecting em ... yeah KK go ahead nerf the ppu's some more ... as long as the people here gonna be whining for nerfs ... and as long KK listens to those Pe's ... then i dont see alot of progression in this game ... nerf the ppu like ya did with the hybrids i say and loose again a bunch of people (for you guys those are customers, for me those are friends ...)
and when do you gonna make a tank viable ? and when do we gonna get less synching and spawning in others appartments etc ? the bugpatch was a step in the right direction yeah, not denying that ffcourse :)
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 11:51
Boy am I glad I turned off topic reply notification - I saw this one turning into a bloodbath a mile off !!
Well why am I posting again you ask ? Because I'm now tired of seeing the number of people who have posted here based upon what they have read on the test server patch notes, rather than what they have experienced on the test server for themselves.
Please, every single one of you who are against this change (yes especially you LexxUK), fire up an installation and log onto the test server. Create a PPU there, and do what I have been doing these last few months while I've been lurking - TEST THE GAME CHANGES OUT !!!
Now I fully expect some of you do test there, but the vast majority of posters against this change have no clue what they're talking about other than what they've seen on the patch notes. To those who have tried it out and still stand by their opinion, well at least you've actually seen the changes for yourself first-hand. To the rest of you, your arguments still sound hollow to these ears.
I look back fondly to days of beta testing, we only had one monk on a hunting trip, because everyone was much more enthusiastic about bringing their tank / PE along for the hunt. A monk was an added bonus, and if they could resurrect as well as heal and inflict some damage (remember monks could do it all back then, but aggresive PSI was an 'in-your-face' thing due to the extremely short range of the modules) then it was an added bonus !! IF a resurrection was required, then the entire hunting party gathered round the monk, and shielded them from the mobs - partly because back then passive PSI was nothing compared to what it is now so the monk had no chance of defending themselves while resurrecting. Myself, LewDog, Ithaqua, McDanish, Steppenwolf, Hatchet, Thorval, Auburn, and more, all gathered around Wannabe so he could resurrect R.O.M. (who was a spy). We had a tonne of fun in performing such a manouevre, and if it was me taking my monk along, then I received the same benefit if a resurrection was ever required.
I hope you all open your eyes, I believe one of you was trying to have a stab at me by saying there is bias on both sides of the fence - so sue me if I found it a lot more fun when resurrection wasn't our saviour ! Death meant something, it gave us more of a challenge.
Take care,
Reefie
[TgR]KILLER
09-12-03, 11:59
Chaos Caves will be sooo much fun with a 40 sec rezz.. i can see it now.. "Need a poker for Chaos caves" instead of a rezzer ppl bring pokers lol
Original monk
09-12-03, 11:59
indeed: and as you said: ppu's wherent the same back then as they where now (beta where 98% hybrids, remember hybrids ? the ones KK KILLED) apu's arent the same as back then also ...
and its nice how you talk about death, and when it meant something: but thats also a long time ago ... they give us a year of playing with fast rezzurection: we get used to it: and then cause of the whines here they go nerfing every aspect of the ppu ...
that they make up there mind up there at KK ok .. and btw i prefered being a hybrid (not a ppu) and i still see it as one of the biggest screwups that they killed em ... why was a -20 or -15 % nerf at each side not enough ?? no no, now you need to get a chip of a kamibot to make a decent hybrid (also a screwup) where you gotta pay 20 ds parts and 15 mill for to get one :/ (figure of speech ...)
Not everyone has test server. :p
I say let the patch come. What a lot of people fail to realise is that any nerf on a support class effects the people they are supporting more then themselves.
The other good thing about this patch is it will have a lot of people lomming or rerolling to another class so the bitches can whine at the herd instead.
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 12:05
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
Chaos Caves will be sooo much fun with a 40 sec rezz.. i can see it now.. "Need a poker for Chaos caves" instead of a rezzer ppl bring pokers lol
In my opinion, if you die in the Chaos Caves, you're a fuckup. Seriously. My PISTOL SPY solos the place. It's the easiest cave of the lot, there's plenty of cover for reloading/healing, and the mobs tend to get stuck CONSTANTLY.
I reiterate, a dead person in the Chaos Caves = a very stupid person.
And if you have 0 natural poison resist? That's part of the fun! 0 POR means poison will kill you, morons. Go level somewhere else.
Sorry about that, I just hate people who constantly need ressurection/heals/uber-buffs in the caves.
just one question...how the FUCK are you meant to do MC5 ??
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 12:15
Originally posted by Original monk
indeed: and as you said: ppu's wherent the same back then as they where now (beta where 98% hybrids, remember hybrids ? the ones KK KILLED) apu's arent the same as back then also ...
and its nice how you talk about death, and when it meant something: but thats also a long time ago ... they give us a year of playing with fast rezzurection: we get used to it: and then cause of the whines here they go nerfing every aspect of the ppu ...
that they make up there mind up there at KK ok .. and btw i prefered being a hybrid (not a ppu) and i still see it as one of the biggest screwups that they killed em ... why was a -20 or -15 % nerf at each side not enough ?? no no, now you need to get a chip of a kamibot to make a decent hybrid (also a screwup) where you gotta pay 20 ds parts and 15 mill for to get one :/ (figure of speech ...)
Uhm, you obviously didn't read my post - check the bit where I mention ''because back then passive PSI was nothing compared to what it is now'' - hybrids had to be killed off because the specialisation changes made everything (weapons, psi modules) much more powerful in the hands of a skilled user. Your logic is flawed and shows that you were 'speed-reading' as opposed to taking it all in properly. If hybrids had been allowed to remain then the only fair way to deal with them would have been to remove the specialisation changes altogether.
Whoopdeedoo - you've all had resurrection 'on-tap' for a year now. As said by others in this thread, everyone's been spoilt with such a luxury. You'll all still have resurrection, you just won't have it 'on-tap'. Everyone will be much more careful, and as already said by people both for and against the change, this will stop the kamikaze nature that people tend to adopt when they know they're dragging a PPU along by the reins. What this change will do is allow PPUs to make more use of other modules to keep their team mates alive, as opposed to teammates and PPU all thinking 'it's ok, if they die I can just resurrect them'.
I won't even go into depth on the kamikaze chip issue - all I'll say is that if you want to pay that sort of payment for one because you desire hybridness again then you're obviously more motivated by power than you are teamwork. That says a lot really.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
PS Original monk - you shouldn't take this reply from myself personally, it seems like that's what's happening. As for the rest of you, I for one am not going to hold any grudges over what's been said in this thread so far, nor do I hold grudges against those who pm'd myself with flame material because of what I've said in this thread. This is all debatable, so everyone should stop being bitchy, snidy, underhand. If the matter is debated then we can get to the core of the issue - which I think we already have, it's just been missed because folk are starting to take it personally.
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Look on the bright side, OP warfare will become more definitive, and at the end of the battle there'll be plenty of time to rez the dead on your side since the enemy will be vanquished. The losing side will be the ones forced to generep and get poked, the winners won't have a problem.
As for hunting, well a PPU can keep themselves alive long enough in PvM for a resurrection to be carried out - if they can't stay alive against mobs then they're in the wrong job !
Agreed, pointed this out to Lexx last night.
Originally posted by Nexxy
I think its a good idea. Stage one in putting the fear back in dieing.
About time. Even just GR'n aint that big a deal. Maybe it'll even promote the NON-MONK classes (more Pokers, Constructors etc) to cover losses when more people are dieing and recovering somewhat of the fucked economy that exists today.
Originally posted by Dont Mess
next time yr DS or SA falls out and u ask 4 a rezz. u can just go F*** yr selvs
Where do you get the idea that everyone has MC5 chips? Have I missed something? Believe it or not anything thats non-MC5 can be replaced pretty easily.
Originally posted by Nexxy
There was a time when hardly anyone could rez people still lvled PVPed and had fun and shit.
Dead right my friend, also pointed this out to Lexx last night too.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Shodan obviously you dont understand the role of a ppu.
The role of a ppu is to AID in combat his teammates.
The role of a ppu is to not bestow godmode on who he sees fit.
The role of a ppu is not to res someone will under fire from 10 plus guys (Ive done it with even more then 10 dont tell me it isnt possible barring HAB)
The role of a ppu is to AID in op fights and combat in general. They were not meant to be a neccesity.
EXACTLY CORRECT, 100% Agreed. Dont give the PvM excuses of ressing under fire of 10+ Mobs either (unless there is suitable avoidance measures, eg, anti-poison sanctum and such like) If someone is stupid enough to run into the middle of a group of 8 DOY Bots and expect the PPU to do all the work in keeping him alive, hell, If I were the PPU there, I'd have let the fool die and GR.
Originally posted by Possessed
all i can say is <3 Rade and <3 Nexxykins, if death was what it was like a year ago i will be happier... shodan, why does a ppu deserve to be able to take damage from 10 or more people while being able to rez someone? or take damage from 10 people at all... the point of the PPU is to aid his team mates in killing the opposition, NOT to take unbeleivable amounts of damage.
Oh god yes.
Originally posted by Ferabukoo
...Insert annoying random rant typed entirely in caps...
Holy Para IS being nerfed, seems that noone's really bothered by that any more though.
Originally posted by Omnituens
rez needed a tweak
but KK doesnt do tweaks
I can agree to that. The rez nerf MIGHT be a bit extreme. Im not making any opinion on it till i see it in action and how it works from there before seeing it though. *Cough* Lexxuk... what did i tell you? *cough*
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Shodan your bias is blinding me please turn it down a notch.
PPUs do not DO NOT deserve god mode. I dont know what else I can say to change your mind otherwise i have a feeling noone can help u now... im sorry... ur beyond helping. Maybe if u didnt play a ppu u would see the light... until then i give up.
I just like to add... until the last week of beta i didnt even see what a ressurect did. For a couple months before that i leveled many many characters and not a single one got a res. Hell it was harder to level I think back then. Yet you guys seem to think it will be the end of the world.
Agreed on top part. Agreed on Bottom part. I didnt see a res till 3 weeks into retail play and that was from a GM (at the time I thought it was a GM only thing). That was 3+ months of playing in Beta plus almost another Month on retail. We didnt need it then, why the fuck has it become so "essential" now?
Originally posted by ghandisfury
The increased rezz time doesn't solve anything. Pardon, the one thing it will change is a team with more PPUs beating a team with less PPUs.
honestly... WTF?? THATS HOW IT IS NOW! So hows the nerf going to change anything again?
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
You know what this'll do? Maybe? Just perhaps?
It'll make the PPU a support class.
God-fucking-forbid!
The PPU boosts the abilities of the team beyond compare. That much is clear. However, in this situation, the team should work to defend the PPU, as he is vital to the team objective. The PPU should not be able to stand an army of people hammering at him, no way no how.
In Team Fortress Classic, how much armour does a medic have? How many rockets can an engineer take? Oh, that's right, virtually zero on both counts.
Want to know why?
They're the support characters.
They shouldn't be getting shot at. If a PPU gets hammered, he should die. If your team's PPU gets attacked, that's shitty teamplay on your part. Get some skills.
This rezz nerf will hopefully make people FALL BACK and DEFEND their PPU. Which is what the class should be.
Oh, and my DS pops all the time. Haven't needed to get it repaired once, and a trip to Plaza 1 isn't that bad. Suck it up, I've got no sympathy for weak little bitches like yourselves.
Never thought I'd say this, but the voice of sanity speaks and it is from Mumbly.... O_o thats not right.. you have to say something weird and twisted... mansex?
Originally posted by Keiron
Back to reality...
The reason PPU's need a nerf is, they affect battle SOO much. Take a 4 or 5 regular tanks, make them fight an APU+PPU duo. If that duo is any good, the tanks are going to be laid out in moments. PPU's affect battle more then any one other class because they are SO hard to kill and make anyone they are working with exponentially harder to kill. They can't have it both ways.
Exactly.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
MC5? Doesnt imo need any changes what so ever, the damage is just right as it is right now, same as the loot rate. I, as a PPU, will still not die there (at ALL, i die there now, if this nerf comes in, i'd never put my PPU into any risk), but fuck my team, they die, they can go get a poke and come back, i'm not risking my implants/spells.
Extremely selfish outlook Lexx, doesnt do anything to help your case here either. IF the only class that can survive any length of time in MC5 is a PPU, then it needs toned down... ALOT. MC5 isnt supposed to be a PPU only area you know.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
....Mumbly's last set of posts here...
:lol: Precisley
Most of these are points that I had brought up to Lexxuk last night ingame. Yes PPU's, fine, Drop your res spells and no longer help the general Public of NC. You know what the results will be and it wont be in favour of you either. (simple psychology and history will teach you this). No one responds well to a universal fuck you.
I'll admit I enjoy having PPU's around to level with and sometimes res when needed. I have been playing 2 weeks. I have levelled with an apu for about a total of 3 - 4 hours out of maybe 40 - 50 hours or so playing. In that time I levelled up faster than usual and am very grateful for it. But the denial here from some of the PPU's of how badly they are affecting the PvP endgame and balance in general is disturbing.
If i didnt have a PPU around me (like 90% of the time anyways) it doesnt stop me levelling or doing anything in particular. If I wanted to take on specialist mobs like MC5 or Chaos Caves, I would have specialised in the damage types to do so. I havent done that so I stick with what I can do for the time being. I outright refuse to rely on any other class or player (PvM or PvP wise that is) when I play just so that i can take on Mobs that Im not capable of. If I want to try, then I will, at my own risk.
There are so many good points in this thread so Ive highlighted and responded to the ones I feel that best describe the situation with PPU's. Also, I win the award for biggest reply ever :D
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 12:26
Originally posted by Elric
Also, I win the award for biggest reply ever :D
*cuts out all the quotes*
Nahhh... I reckon most of my forum posts are about the same size - anyhow size isn't everything :p
While it's difficult to add additional input to the debate, what you've said about taking on mobs that we're not equipped for is a very useful point, my mind's going numb after ready through this thread several times now, and I think Mumbly mentioned it already, but it has been ignored / overlooked for the most part. Thanks for reminding me of the fun of only tackling mobs we're equipped to take on :)
Take care,
Reefie
EDIT : EEEEK !! Left topic reply notification on that time !! Thankfully editing lets me turn it off *phew* Could've gone to control panel but that's too much effort :D
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
*cuts out all the quotes*
Nahhh... I reckon most of my forum posts are about the same size - anyhow size isn't everything :p
Damn, you noticed :p
While it's difficult to add additional input to the debate, what you've said about taking on mobs that we're not equipped for is a very useful point, my mind's going numb after ready through this thread several times now, and I think Mumbly mentioned it already, but it has been ignored / overlooked for the most part. Thanks for reminding me of the fun of only tackling mobs we're equipped to take on :)
Take care,
Reefie
EDIT : EEEEK !! Left topic reply notification on that time !! Thankfully editing lets me turn it off *phew* Could've gone to control panel but that's too much effort :D
:lol:
I tried to tell Lexx this was a bad idea last night, He didnt believe me. Looks like I was right again though :D
All the points raised have been valid and I think the core of the issue is what the PPU's are expected and used to doing. It is not what they ARE supposed to be doing, its just what theyve gotten used to. (e.g. Allowing anyone to take on ANY mobs no matter how ill equipped, Ressurecting under extremely heavy fire etc etc.)
Resurrection as it is now is horribly over powered. It reminds me of WolfET.
It shouldn't be an on the fly spell. There should be some downtime between someone being resurrected and when they can fight again.
When a person dies in an OP fight they shouldn't be able to fight again in it. That just seems weak to me.
Hmmm.... I have listented to the arguments on both sides and it seems that most of the PPUs are all very biased against this nerf. Which I can understand as it is a nerf agaisnt them.... the problem with the test server is that there is no way to REALLY test what will happen in an OP war. Will you need more PPUs or less? WIll people turn back to other classes now due to the rezz nerf? You really need a real server with a large population to test it out on.
Anyone who says that this change will fuck up PvM needs to try a bit harder. I agree that it might fuck up PvP... but there is no way in hell that you need rezz whilst leveling. You don't even need PPUs whilst leveling. I can't remeber a time when I was leveling up Drikie that I actually asked for a PPU, and very few times when I was actually supported by a PPU.
Basically my opinon about chips falling out and losing weapons is thus:
You have your rare in slot one so you don't lose that (I know about PPU rares I'll come onto that). All your rare chips are in your head so the worst they can do is fall out, anyway only MC5 chips are REALLY hard for you to get hold of. Its just newbs who have a hard time getting hold of rares. So all you can lose is armour, which can be annoying for PA yeah but its not the end of the world (more so for monks, but I could care less). Now it would seem like KK don't want PPUs to be rezzing under fire so I see no reason why PPUs should die any more than normal if they DON'T try and rezz under fire, I mean that would be just stupid. So they most probably stil won't die as much as other classes thus they probably won't lose their spells. Also if they die in a PP fight or a clan war (non-opwars) then they should be in a team in any case, or there should be someone close by who you can trust who can grab your belt for you. And if you do lose whatever was in your belt then, well tough luck. Its a cruel world out there get used to it.
I have started to realise that I am one of the people who has been spolied by rezz... I realised that a few nights ago when I left Drikie in PP 1 for at least 5 mins waiting for a rezz. I though WTF am I doing..... why the hell should I be waiting for a rezz when I have been taking the "Lifes hard, get over it" approach on the forums, and when I have been openly calling out for a PPU nerf. Isn't that a bit hypocritical of me? Fuck yes.... shit. I mean if there is a PPU there to rezz you then its ok to wait for a min, but not call over a PPU from the other side of the city to rezz you.
In other words I retract my previous statement (on page one) and am in full support of this idea... though I would like to see it working in some OP wars.
Hmmm..... this could be a cool article. *wanders off thinking*
didnt bother reading all the 10 pages, perhaps some1 already said this...
but..
the rezz fails like 50% of the time for me.....and if its 40 seconds each....and i crash every 70 seconds.... and 300 mana to....
OVERKILL!!
Original monk
09-12-03, 12:54
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Uhm, you obviously didn't read my post - check the bit where I mention ''because back then passive PSI was nothing compared to what it is now'' - hybrids had to be killed off because the specialisation changes made everything (weapons, psi modules) much more powerful in the hands of a skilled user. Your logic is flawed and shows that you were 'speed-reading' as opposed to taking it all in properly. If hybrids had been allowed to remain then the only fair way to deal with them would have been to remove the specialisation changes altogether.
Whoopdeedoo - you've all had resurrection 'on-tap' for a year now. As said by others in this thread, everyone's been spoilt with such a luxury. You'll all still have resurrection, you just won't have it 'on-tap'. Everyone will be much more careful, and as already said by people both for and against the change, this will stop the kamikaze nature that people tend to adopt when they know they're dragging a PPU along by the reins. What this change will do is allow PPUs to make more use of other modules to keep their team mates alive, as opposed to teammates and PPU all thinking 'it's ok, if they die I can just resurrect them'.
I won't even go into depth on the kamikaze chip issue - all I'll say is that if you want to pay that sort of payment for one because you desire hybridness again then you're obviously more motivated by power than you are teamwork. That says a lot really.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
PS Original monk - you shouldn't take this reply from myself personally, it seems like that's what's happening. As for the rest of you, I for one am not going to hold any grudges over what's been said in this thread so far, nor do I hold grudges against those who pm'd myself with flame material because of what I've said in this thread. This is all debatable, so everyone should stop being bitchy, snidy, underhand. If the matter is debated then we can get to the core of the issue - which I think we already have, it's just been missed because folk are starting to take it personally.
I dont take anything personnaly, infact i havent speed read youre post, but seems like you did, otherwise you would know that i think ya where right about ppu's not being the same as they used to ... and apu's also ... maybe cause of people that pushed there monks to the limits ... maybe cause of the introduction of rareweapons ? i dunno
about me being greedy for power instead of teamwork :
i dont see what an apukami and a decent hybridsetup has to do with power but hey ... and as for the teams: its not cause KK try's to force us to play in teams and clans that we all have to do that witouth looking back or asking questions ... being independant is more worth for me then having a good clan or team ... being in a clan means taking sides ... i never take sides, i see the so called "enemy's" as potentiol customers or co-traders ... wich is still my maingoal here: trading and collecting rare stuff ...
but now back to the point ffcourse: we are all used to the ontap rezzing, and now they remove it ... i would like to see what happens when they cut the damage and frequency of a holy lightning in half: there all used to having a fast HL that does fast damage not ? ontap damage that is ...
i tell ya: only reason they keep nerfing the ppu's (and back then the hybrids) is cause of the ongoing flow of whiners here on the forum ... PE's who will only be satisfied when there PE will own also ... (FIGURE OF SPEECH)
and ok: these people are also a voice in the neocronstory ... sad thing is that those people are the ones that when a change comes directly lom or make a new char that on that moment is the most overpowerd ... its cause of those tards that the game gets nerfed constantly ...
instead of boosted as it should be
anyways i hope i dont mess up youre thread reefsmoker, i know youre ok and i know youre not being personal, otherwise we couldnt get to some kind of solution for the problem called "nerf those PPU's to dead, dead i tell ya, dead dead" :P
problem is: when kk says nerf (or reduced the power of) then i know there doing it decently, not to call it overkill or even "the sledgehammer" if ya may like :)
Shadow Dancer
09-12-03, 12:55
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
And if you have 0 natural poison resist? That's part of the fun! 0 POR means poison will kill you, morons. Go level somewhere else.
Sorry about that, I just hate people who constantly need ressurection/heals/uber-buffs in the caves.
:lol:
You are so right. When leveling, my apu had 75 natural poison and medium poison belt. With a ppu I never die with that kind of resist.
I won't comment on any, since the commenting is being done exellently by others :)
I like the changes, and I'm PPU. As I said before, now the para should be done PvM only and weäre all set :)
How about a nice cup of skill? ;)
:D
[TgR]KILLER
09-12-03, 13:19
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
In my opinion, if you die in the Chaos Caves, you're a fuckup. Seriously. My PISTOL SPY solos the place. It's the easiest cave of the lot, there's plenty of cover for reloading/healing, and the mobs tend to get stuck CONSTANTLY.
I reiterate, a dead person in the Chaos Caves = a very stupid person.
And if you have 0 natural poison resist? That's part of the fun! 0 POR means poison will kill you, morons. Go level somewhere else.
Sorry about that, I just hate people who constantly need ressurection/heals/uber-buffs in the caves.
Fish.. the only reason i level in CC and not on WBs is because i get con in chaos caves.. wonder how i capped my PE in 5 days inc. con ? doing choas caves and just suck up dmg and hits.. and yes die alot.. i can solo to but its no point while leveling con lol
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 13:37
My apologies Original Monk, on reflection it seems I was a bit overboard with the power vs teamwork thing. If I may elaborate on what I meant...
We all want to be the best that we can, no denying that. I've already said that I take the time to tune my characters fairly regularly. However the PSI kami chips seem to be heralded as the new means to be hybrid. We all know how frustrating it was to come up against a hybrid who could deal immense damage, and at the same time they could defend themselves and their teammates really well. Hybrid was a term that only really came into operation after KK announced that they were splitting monks into two distinct groups. Many monks worked hard (no denying that a lot of effort was put in, and in most cases effort should be rewarded) to achieve the hybridness because it made them more powerful than a pure monk.
The goal to achieve hybridness appears to be on the table again. The power is desired, not because it will necessarily help them in a team, but because it means they are then self-sufficient. I shall refrain on commenting on the pros and cons of such an achievement.
Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say :)
Now let's get back to the resurrection issue ;) I've voiced my arguments for allowing the change to go ahead, and we've had a good collection of responses as to why it shouldn't be allowed to go ahead. There are flaws in some of the arguments from both sides, as is often the case when a debate arises.
Much as I hate to agree with a self-confessed Neocron hacker, Lenard has a valid point where he states that there should be some downtime after being resurrected. The only thing I can add to this statement is that there should be downtime if the current resurrection stays. If it is changed as planned on the test server then there is no need for the downtime, that in itself is taken care of by the extended resurrect times.
Maybe (and a big maybe at that) there should be a slight reduction in the proposed resurrection times for those who cap the abilities of these two psi modules. I think that a 5 second reduction on the two proposed times would be acceptable if a compromise were to be reached, though I am still heavily in favour of what has already been put forward on the test server. I do not agree that KK has taken the sledgehammer approach in this case - and believe me, I'd love to bitch at KK, though I've learnt to keep my trap shut (hence the lack of comments from myself regarding the DoY announcements).
Take care,
Reefie
EDIT : Nice comment about the 'cup of skill' from yourself Phunge, made me chuckle :D
Originally posted by Elric
Drop your res spells and no longer help the general Public of NC. You know what the results will be and it wont be in favour of you either. (simple psychology and history will teach you this). No one responds well to a universal fuck you.....
I'll admit I enjoy having PPU's around to level with and sometimes res when needed.
And now you won't. It won't be a universal fuck you, it will be a "Why bother?" or a "You wanted it, go GR".
Good luck trying to level when you have to GR back to get pokes only to find that where you were levelling is now a locked GR and you have to spend 5-10 minutes to get back to your corpse.
If it was effecting combat related stuff, an easier fix would be to allow player damage to disrupt rezzing easier, or to put SI on the person rezzed (so they cannot get back into the fight fast).
300 drain on the mana pool, seriously not worth the hassle, especially when it is possible to fizzle when rezzing. Best you go GR when you die.
Btw, as I already mentioned I have no problem with the change.
Original monk
09-12-03, 14:08
im glad that you can explain yourself clearly reefsmoker, unlike alot of other people here that like to flame when some questions are asked :) i can assure you that youve clarified the situation nicely :)
and actually youre right: we been spoiled with the rezzurection and some disadvantages need to be coupled with the rezzurection as it is now ... im yust afraid how its gonna turn out on the retailservers once the patch is in ... and what other nerfs are following concerning PPU's in general .. i know they where "fixing" the ppu step by step he :) ( so indeed no sledgehammer approach but still: whats gonna be the final result ? ... i yust cant get rid of the annoying feeling that they have nerfed hybrids to dead )
about doy: lots have been said, about how crazy its gonna be; "a new designerdrug" is even been said :) and ive been infront of the doygates: it tells ya: entering the dome of york sector ... but the door yust wouldnt go open :) and i wonder when they gonna open (april 2003 ?)
anyways have fun posting and playing the game as it is now, and im also very curious about how the ppunerf will affect those new breed of hybrids btw...
ps: and ffcourse i hope things are going better with youre back lately, i been paying attention to youre thread about computerusers better watch there backs (litteraly) so thats what im doing now, altough with not alot of luck lately ... better gonna get a massage right away ...
Just to make it clear.
it is not a PPU nerf
It is a player nerf. PPU dies they can't rez themselves.
This is the main reason I don't mind the change. It won't effect me, it will effect the people who die. Now if a person dies either they go GR, or they wait even longer before I can rez them (if I even do that).
Doesn't effect me in the slightest.
This seems a cool change.
Ressurectting is far too quick. At least now it will be only beneficial when out hunting Mobs or something.
Now fights will be that slightly more balanced in my opinion
Originally posted by Archeus
And now you won't. It won't be a universal fuck you, it will be a "Why bother?" or a "You wanted it, go GR".
Good luck trying to level when you have to GR back to get pokes only to find that where you were levelling is now a locked GR and you have to spend 5-10 minutes to get back to your corpse.
You mis-quoted me
THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING!
jesus, read the damn post. I said its nice when it happens, I dont EXPECT it to happen. Out of 40 - 50+ Hours of play since reactivation, Ive been near or teamed with a PPU for maybe 10% of that time (maybe 3 - 5 hours top).
PS. I drive evrywhere, I rarely use GR's unless its a public one (Battle Dome, MB, TH.)
If PPU's decide to stop ressing in outcry to the nerf, fine, it is not going to make much damn difference to me.
I have no problem with the change either.
[edit] If all the PPU's get on Lexx's bandwagon and give it the "I can but Im not going to" thats as good as saying Fuck You I aint doin it. so thus, it is a Universal fuck you.
[TgR]KILLER
09-12-03, 14:25
i don't care fuck all about the nerf eighter.. i don't have a ppu or play with one.. and my chars are capped.. well 1 is and 1 is tradeskill who aint getting in a situation that she would need a rezz..
Originally posted by Elric
[edit] If all the PPU's get on Lexx's bandwagon and give it the "I can but Im not going to" thats as good as saying Fuck You I aint doin it. so thus, it is a Universal fuck you.
No, it is a why bother?
Seriously. If you had a skill I relied on which I canvassed so that you would be completely defenseless for one minute, would you use it?
Probably not. After all why put yourself at a disadvantage?
Of course, it will still be used but what it will mean is huge increases to downtime of players, no where near as bad as it will be for the PPU.
Think about it.
1. The PPU can only rez while they are safe, so they have to wait until that situation arises. In op wars (which TBH I don't care about) that isn't going to happen anymore until the end of the fight or unless the group with the most PPUs is winning.
2. Once they get the chance to cast they will have to stay still for about a minute while they are rezzing the person. Disruptions, fizzles (casts properly but just does nothing at the end of the spell) are going to happen. That with massive mana drain will be more down time for the dead person.
Of course it means more people are going to GR out looking for pokes and whatnot so the corpse is going to have to weigh that up against will the PPU actually rez me.
So as I said it will be a much of 'why bother' for the PPU. Why spend all that time and effort?
It won't effect the PPU in the slightest, and all it will do in Op wars is mean the team with the most PPUs will still win.
It means no more down time, because people won't die so often. The main reason people die currently is because they know they can be ressurected, so they will happily run suicide into a group of enemies. If they know they won't get a rez, then they won't be so willing to do this.
on the note of why bother. Ok, heres the main one.
2 man team in Chaos Caves. 1 PPU one Tank. Same combat ranks.
Tank dies... PPU says fuck it, why bother, and wanders off , Tank GR's. PPU not getting EXP anymore from team (almost the only way to level a PPU if Im not mistaken) and Tank has to go get poked up n stuff before coming back. Where the fuck is the sense in that?
The op war fights just now are a case of who has the most PPU's wins, this aint gonna change a thing when it comes to that if you really want to look at it like that. the difference is a PPU isnt going to be able to solo revive his entrire force anymore, thus hopefully defining a clear winner to any op fight.
I really wish Callash or whoever decided to go this route with PPU's would come and tell us all why and the reasoning behind it. I imagine it would propbably stop alot of the whining.
Originally posted by Elric
Tank dies... PPU says fuck it, why bother, and wanders off , Tank GR's. PPU not getting EXP anymore from team (almost the only way to level a PPU if Im not mistaken) and Tank has to go get poked up n stuff before coming back. Where the fuck is the sense in that?
Exactly. But then the PPU may not be in a position to rez them. I don't know what it is like capped but with my holy spells running I can sustain 4 hits from the mobs in the caves before I will die. Standing around for a minute will allow numerous hits.
I'm not whining, I want this change because I know it will piss off the whiners who wanted PPUs nerfed. :)
I would just like to add my comment, if I may....
I agree TOTALLY with those peeps that are right, and disagree with those that are wrong / stoopid / Drom shaggers... :D
Hope that covers my feelings ;)
No Elric, it would cause more.....
Im fine with ressurrection, it will stop the suicide morons dying every minute, and make pvp and pvm more challanging.
In the case of the childish "Ill make all my merry ppu bro's stop rezzing everyone now!" is fine by me, i wont miss ressurection and it will teach those slobs who are so depended on ppus now.
I even have a secret for them i will share for the said slobs;
(If you Click the 2nd Mouse button, and GR, you wont need to alt-tab to a mIRC channel and whine for 15 min about your angest that no ppus are rezzing you everytime you die, and its wasting your valuble, precious time)
Mumblyfish
09-12-03, 14:59
Originally posted by Archeus
Exactly. But then the PPU may not be in a position to rez them. I don't know what it is like capped but with my holy spells running I can sustain 4 hits from the mobs in the caves before I will die. Standing around for a minute will allow numerous hits.
Read my previous post. You don't deserve to stay alive in the caves. You are insanely poorly equipped to take on the task of fighting instant-poison mobs, and should stick to ones you are equipped against.
With my 198% holy shelter, a lieutenant does around 60 damage to me. If I had a holy heal sanctum running, I could easily ressurect someone AS A HYBRID. Get some poison resist first.
Allow me Mumbly.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
In my opinion, if you die in the Chaos Caves, you're a fuckup. Seriously. My PISTOL SPY solos the place. It's the easiest cave of the lot, there's plenty of cover for reloading/healing, and the mobs tend to get stuck CONSTANTLY.
Need I say more on the caves issue Archeus? Theyre all like that. Easy to get a quiet couple of minutes to yourself without worries of being hit.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Read my previous post. You don't deserve to stay alive in the caves. You are insanely poorly equipped to take on the task of fighting instant-poison mobs, and should stick to ones you are equipped against.
*shrug* I am well equipped to handle the caves. Just not stand around like a mong for a minute in front of all the mobs (which is where most people die). Try it yourself and see how long you can last.
Sure I can rez someone now, try it when it is a minute with mobs whacking on you and your unable to move or cast another spell and have such a serious mana drain to your pool.
Sanctum on your own won't keep you alive if you have 2 or more attacking you.
Get some poison resist first.
I actually have a lot, and it isn't the poison that hurts.
Originally posted by Archeus
*shrug* I am well equipped to handle the caves. Just not stand around like a mong for a minute in front of all the mobs (which is where most people die). Try it yourself and see how long you can last.
Sure I can rez someone now, try it when it is a minute with mobs whacking on you and your unable to move or cast another spell and have such a serious mana drain to your pool.
Sanctum on your own won't keep you alive if you have 2 or more attacking you.
I actually have a lot, and it isn't the poison that hurts.
If you crouch and put both heal and sanctum on I dont think itd
be a problem, heal will cover almost all the casting time if you are
crouching. If its in the middle of the last room with a bazillion
mobs then no, of course it wont work, which is the point.
Originally posted by Archeus
*shrug* I am well equipped to handle the caves. Just not stand around like a mong for a minute in front of all the mobs (which is where most people die). Try it yourself and see how long you can last.
Sure I can rez someone now, try it when it is a minute with mobs whacking on you and your unable to move or cast another spell and have such a serious mana drain to your pool.
Sanctum on your own won't keep you alive if you have 2 or more attacking you.
I actually have a lot, and it isn't the poison that hurts.
The point some make about the dying in front of Mobs tho is valid still. If someones stupid enough to do that knowing the limitations of your res, then leave them there. They were fools to try it and you shouldnt risk yourself to help them out of a stupid position they got themselves into. If they were being careful (the way the caves SHOULD be tackled) then they wont die in a position that its difficult to res them from.
People Whine "Give Death More Meaning"
People Whine "OMFG PPU REZZED HIS FRIEND WITH 30 PPL SHOOTING HIM"
KK listen, and kill two birds with one stone.
People Whine.
:rolleyes:
make death have more meaning lol yah right for capped chars. its easy to say make pvm harder when your fucking capped.
to bad everyone that fucking whines about ppu's doesnt get rerolled after this next patch. now THAT would be fair hahhaha.
You seem to miss the fact that many of us levelled completely
without PPUs and there was exactly no fucking problem at all
doing that. Its just now that people have gotten lazy.
Originally posted by Rade
You seem to miss the fact that many of us levelled completely
without PPUs and there was exactly no fucking problem at all
doing that. Its just now that people have gotten lazy.
i still level without a PPU and im proud of it:D
Jesterthegreat
09-12-03, 15:38
haha... 300 mana... my PPU just lost rezzing ability anyway :p
personally i hate the rez spell...
these guys found in a cave have really developed minds... this enables them to raise the dead? LMFAO... right O_o
Originally posted by Rade
You seem to miss the fact that many of us levelled completely
without PPUs and there was exactly no fucking problem at all
doing that. Its just now that people have gotten lazy.
Yup.
You don't need a PPU for PvM. It may be nice, but its not necessary.
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 15:53
I've read the thread in its entirety, now would somebody (preferably Reefsmoker) explain to me what this patch will change with respect to the current monk sittuation? I see nothing changing, and monkocron only getting worse......let me give you how I see it going.
Rezz time only makes the clan with the most monks a DEFINATE win. (it used to be probably, now it will be inevitable)
Rezz time will make OP fights last only minutes. Let me say that prepairing for 20-30 minutes to have 2 minutes of fun is not something I look foreward to.
Rezz time will make the attacking team at an OP war almost always lose. If turrets are placed, the defending team will have a safehaven to rezz, while the attacking team will be in the wide open (and if the defending team has more PPUs, you may as well head home).
Rezz time will make places like MC5 near impossible.....and many hunting/leveling situations more frustrating and tedious. (which means I will only hunt with the people I can trust not to be jackasses).
Rezz time doesn't solve the issue of monkocron....you still need monks to heal monks to kill monks to buff monks to debuff monks to rezz monks.....etc...
Rezz time by no means solves the inherrent imbalance with the PPU class. Player+PPU>many players without PPU.
I'm sorry, if somebody wouldn't mind explaining and answering these issues listed above, it would be appreciated. I see nothing solved, and alot destroyed. I think the PPU needs ALOT of work, but I don't believe that this is the way to go about it.
About time. :D
Now I wont have to watch people in the Caves for example, just standing in front of the mobs blasting away, dropping dead, getting rezzed, rinsing and repeating, and not caring about dying.
If I can go for two whole months as a newb without dying when I first started, I'm sure others can.
Death is a punishment.
Not a teabreak.
Jesterthegreat
09-12-03, 15:59
Originally posted by MrBane
About time. :D
Now I wont have to watch people in the Caves for example, just standing in front of the mobs blasting away, dropping dead, getting rezzed, rinsing and repeating, and not caring about dying.
If I can go for two whole months as a newb without dying when I first started, I'm sure others can.
Death is a punishment.
Not a teabreak.
i agree this is a step in the right direction... however i dont see paying 3k to get imped and gring back a punishment :p
death still has little meaning
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 16:00
Originally posted by MrBane
About time. :D
Now I wont have to watch people in the Caves for example, just standing in front of the mobs blasting away, dropping dead, getting rezzed, rinsing and repeating, and not caring about dying.
If I can go for two whole months as a newb without dying when I first started, I'm sure others can.
Death is a punishment.
Not a teabreak.
When they solve long sincs, FREs, incescent lag, sincing out, and the other multitude of bugs that cause you to die.....I'll accept death as punishment.
ReefSmoker
09-12-03, 16:09
Sorry to say it Ghandis, but I don't see the up-coming patches from the test server spelling the end of monkocron.
'Increased cast time and psi consumption for stun spells.'
'Reduced damage for Freeze spells, but the effect stays the same.'
'Increased mana consumption for Freeze spells.'
'Increased cast time for Freeze spells.'
There's some things that will help alleviate the situation with PPUs using paraspam - already on the test server we are seeing that in the organised PvP that occurs the PPUs are using parashock less and are behaving more as supporters / healers.
I can't really say much in response to the points you have raised, all I can say from experience on the test server is that the PPU is reverting more to a support class, which imo is good. APUs are still very powerful however, and I don't think there's much that will change a good APU/PPU duo from being a formiddable force. Having said that, monks were always intended to be powerful combatants right from the early days when Neocron was all concept and most of us weren't even in beta 2 or 3 yet.
The biggest problem with PPUs was being paraspammed to death and having little that could be done about it even with the antishock drugs. To that extent I can happily comment that the spy I set up on the test server is able to use antishock drugs effectively now, and either has a chance to run away or run round the PPU in circles hammering them with a RoLH or a Liberator.
As for my two monks on the test server, the APU is still very powerful, maybe moreso with some of the changes made to the range of beam modules, however it is just as easy to kill them on their own as it is in retail if you can avoid the constant hail of attacks from them. The PPU I have used mainly for testing the proposed changes - tbh I only created the PPU a couple of weeks ago when patch 218 came out, so I could see the parashock changes first-hand, to that extent I am pleased with the change. It has meant that I have ended up providing much more of a support role for the PvP testing that occurs, and I have witnessed the rest of the PPU population on the test server learning to do pretty much the same.
Oh and ignore the reference to 'spells' from the patch notes I copied - they were always PSI modules during beta, with vehement denial of magic being part of this game ! I think the devs have finally given up on that argument and have gone with the majority of the playerbase and now call them 'spells' ;) I for one will stick to the 'there's no magic' line :D
Take care,
Reefie
EDIT : The only thing I can see that might reduce the effectiveness of APUs without killing their damage output is to force a targetting reticle for APU modules, but not for PPU modules. Oh, and kill off the third-person combat for monks, it really does take the mickey when they can shoot people who aren't really in their line of sight. Gentanks I can almost accept the third person argument due to the size of their weapon, but all in all this is a debatable topic that I shouldn't really raise because 1) it's off-topic ! 2) there are plenty of people who will tell me that I can use third person too :p
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 16:16
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Sorry to say it Ghandis, but I don't see the up-coming patches from the test server spelling the end of monkocron.
Exactly my point mate. But isn't this the intent? As far as the parashock change, it's still not enough (just needs to be removed imo). I was just hoping you could either agree or disagree with my concerns:) .......I guess I only see the monk sittuation getting worse, not better. This change will make it inevitable for the most PPUs to win, or the defending team to win (speaking OP fights).......
YAAARRRRRR....back to work.:cool:
EDIT: instead of removing it for the APU, why not remove the retinal for all other classes?:D
@ Elrik - MC5 is possible, without dying, with a tank, and an APU, and a PPU, until you get into the "I want to do more dmg to get the loot" situation, its also totally possible, with just an APU/PPU combo (I've been doing it with just an APU) The damage is just right, and yes, there are situations where all of the mobs in there attack the PPU at once, but if you can stay alive thru that, well, it is possible. After this nerf though, it will be "required" that the attacking class stays alive, simply because the PPU wont be able to stand there for 40 seconds. But that doesnt mean to say you should nerf the damage to make it easier.
@ SD - the 12 rez/15 heal was time based, my heal casts, and lasts 15 seconds, therefore, if I am being shot at during a rez, the heal time is longer than the rez time, giving me a safety blanket.
@ People who will want long op wars - not going to happen, only reason they last a while at the moment, is the support class PPU
@ People who leveled their chars without a PPU - I did that too, with my fully capped PE and with my PPU, he started out APU, simply because PPU's are too fucked up to level properly, and with these nerfs, will be a lot more buggered up, as anyone wanting to start from a PPU, will require more mana/time to kill a rat with a low level spell.
The thing is though, with all the nerfs on the test server for parashock, there has not been any threads saying "this will fuck up x/y/z", but nerfing the ressurection?
Last night up at CRP, i was showing a new player why they shouldnt level there. They had been told its an easy spot, so ran after a low 40/40 mob, a grim chaser caught them, turned them to jelly, my shelter was up, i jumped out of my tank to rez them, started rez, shelter went down. An unbuffed PPU monk vs a Grim = very bad, it would have taken a long time to rez that person with this nerf in place, and who would get bitched at if I couldnt rez her? Me.
I see what you mean about the parashock changes affecting noob leveling PPUs lexxuk.
Thats why I think that it would be best to remove the spell from PvP altogether. Just make it castable in PvM, it would solve both problems.
MjukisDjur
09-12-03, 16:58
About time - Good change !
Originally posted by Lexxuk
@ People who leveled their chars without a PPU - I did that too, with my fully capped PE and with my PPU, he started out APU, simply because PPU's are too fucked up to level properly, and with these nerfs, will be a lot more buggered up, as anyone wanting to start from a PPU, will require more mana/time to kill a rat with a low level spell.
The only viable way for a PPU to level up is to level up as an APU or hybrid until they are at a level they can lom over to support spells/high level soul cluster.
Using Para actually nerfs your XP/cash/loot gain. Cast a SC and sic it on a warbie, then do the same except para spam the warbie too. Notice a difference.
Alright, heres my comment, no way im reading through ALL those posts.
Yes its too much of a sledge hammer approach.
My ideas.....
Ressurect Spell costs 200 Mana, takes 50 second to cast and fills up the ressrected chars health to half way.
Holy Ressurect Spell costs 300 Mana, takes 30 seconds to cast and fills up the ressurected chars health all the way.
Anti Buff spells will not take less than 25 seconds to cast.
OR
Ressurect Spell, 175 mana, 30 seconds, fills up health half way, 10% synaptic imparment
Holy Ressurect Spell, 250 mana, 20 seconds, fills up health all the way, 5% synaptic impairment.
Antibuff time no less than 25 seconds.
I wouldnt mind 20 seconds, 20 seconds is 3/rof. But I also poke, tl 100 (115 with buff) so my ROF is never going to be as high as a pure PSI INT PPU. 40 seconds is way to long, esp when the dead person comes back, and are at high risk of just dropping dead again.
Why do you have 100 Implant? Waste of points :P
Throw on a spy boost 3, throw on the imp gloves.....
86 base implant, spy boost 3, 100 implant
100 implant with spy boost 3, 115 with implant gloves ^_^
MY PE on pluto has 96 Implant, Spy boost 1 and implant gloves.
That would save you..... 42 points i think.... Thats roughly 8 more points into PSI USE if its above 100, and then you got 2 point spare for whatever you wish.
OR if your real ambitious and want some good uses out of your PPU.
to hack all mobs.....
50 base hack, throw on spy boost 3, 70 hack ^_^
At least i think you only need 70 for any mob.
Originally posted by RayBob
I agree with "make people learn not to die" and "put the fear back in dieing." But the problem is that this will make OP fights end very quickly. When you consider how long it takes to get a team to a fight, I think the result is going to be less action for all of us. Who wants that?
Some of the most fun OP fights I have been in have been the grueling 20 minute battles. Sure, people were rezzed numerous times on both sides but eventually one side pushes through and is victorious.
Apologies for not reading every single page of this thread. And for quoting something many pages back. I believe the above statement is untrue to a certain degree.
I've been in plenty of battles of that length, and it's possible to survive the whole 20 minutes without requiring rez if you work well with the PPUs. I dont believe mid fight rezzing is a requirement in op wars, surely it takes a PPU (i dont play one) less time/mana to cast heals to wounded parties than to actually rez them when they die + then heal/buff them all over.
"sigh"
I try not to post here - an opinion is just that - a personal opinion. If i remember right a few ppl thought it was hard to kill PPUs while they ressed and that they were able to res entire teams also under fire. So we had a "nerf the PPU" thread every day by those few ppl.........and KK obliged lol.
Im wondering how many of u are a actually op warring daily. I do, every day, and I aint seen a PPU able to res under fire from a good team in ages - if they try to res its guaranteed they will not succeed - they might survive, but the person being ressed does not. Eventually too (and parashock is essential for this) the PPU will die or have to gr away. So what exactly is broken?
In case u missed it - I said "from a good team" and that is what u ppl supposedly want, good teamwork. If ur team cannot kill a PPU who is ressing u simply dont know what u are doing - If a spy cannot kill the person being ressed, u - seriously - dont know what u are doing.
And yea it was nice in Beta where teamwork was not enforced - I will always be a tank at heart but KK changed the game - they forced ppl to specialise - go read those patchnotes - 160 or so i think. One nerf will not bring those days back, too much has been changed.
Right now a team with 3 PPUs can still beat a team with 5/6 PPUs. Being one of those 3 PPUs, Im trying to see a way to still beat a team with 5/6 ppus, fact is it will be almost impossible because now there will be spcialised ressers. The team with more PPUS will be able to afford to have 1 or 2 specialised ressers - the team with fewer PPUs wont. So - from an op war situation, all this will do is make "having more PPUs" (remember that was the reason for this in the first place) even more of a deciding factor. It will get WORSE. Its such a pity the game has to be changed because some ppl dont know how to play.
Take it or leave it - this is on based my experience of op warring over the past year or more.
Oh yea - I suggested in one of the endless "nerf the ppu" threads, make a gun ( because u dont want to give monks more power ) - make a gun that disintergrates dead bodies - and if dead bodies are shot by this, blown up, whatever - they cannot be ressed. It would do all the same things -- ppl will be less willing to die - it will give other classes more purpose in op wars - keep PVM the same bla bla.
How about this one.
In warzones (you know, where op wars take place), Ressurection cast time is changed to 30 seconds (40 for none-holy). During this time, any dead players will automatically warp to their apartment if they lay dead for 5 minutes. This would prevent people laying dead for hours until somebody ressurects them.
In all other zones, cast time is changed 10 seconds (20 seconds for none-holy) which would mean that PvM isn't affected. Obviously this would mess with people leveling at Cycrow but that's their problem.
Likewise, Antiheal/shelter/buff/etcetcetc, should suffer the same penalties, but to a lesser extent. Meaning that while the PPU is ressurecting, it's possible to antibuff them and start attacking them before the ressurection is complety, so as example figures.. 20 seconds to antibuff, which 30 seconds to ressurect. That'd make PPU's none-god-like, while still keeping players out of the fight for a fair few minutes, and still making zones like MC5 an attainable leveling group for people who know what they're doing.
Nerfing ressurect wont fix op wars, as mentioned by ZigZag. Nerfing heals and shelters would be unfair because thats all a PPU has. Nerfing parashock, it needs to happen, less shock more damage? Who knows, who cares.
It will be a golden age for pokers I guess.. good thing we are nerfing them next. :lol:
Originally posted by Archeus
It will be a golden age for pokers I guess.. good thing we are nerfing them next. :lol:
heh, ya, my PE died today (stupid copbots) my SF is down to 8% and my eye got wrecked, took me like 5 minutes to find a poker *cries*. Mind you, i can cheat and just fire up my PPU to poke me running two clients at once :p
Psycho Killa
09-12-03, 18:58
Originally posted by Archeus
The only viable way for a PPU to level up is to level up as an APU or hybrid until they are at a level they can lom over to support spells/high level soul cluster.
Not true at all. In two days i have leveled a ppu from a noob to almost 70 psi. This was all done with the aid of a single apu.
Granted we need other people to level, but where a SUPPORT character how else did u think a support character would level?
*slaps j00 rade with a big stick*
Dont nerf S/D/H. We can't hurt you, its just our job to annoy you!
However on a totally related note. You could nerf foreign cast S/D. Meaning that a PPU couldn't bestow partial godmode onto other players, thus reintroducing skill of others back into the game instead of kamikazeing into the middle of a crowd.
they already did that flyl, a 50% reduction if I remember rightly. But that makes no difference, because of the heal.
I've decided to hold my opinion until it makes its way to retail, I really feel this will have a negative impact on Neocron, but we'll see. It does have it's good points, but there are other issues that really worry me. Lots of you guys have extreme tunnel vision, basicly you only see something viable if it works for you. Just because you're cool and have been soloing chaos cave since you were 0/1, doesn't mean everyone has. Just because you live for pvp, doesn't mean everyone does. I really don't like patches that hurt one group in favor of another, for no good reason. Was ppu ressurecting a problem? most definitly, but there are tons of other ways it could have been handled. Anyway, there are a few points i'd like to make:
Death may have little meaning to you, but it has a hell of a lot of meaning to me. Not only do I have the repair/imp hassle like the rest of you, but I have to sit down and reorganize my damn inventory. Drag spells to processor, scroll up, place spells, scroll down drag spells to processor, for every single spell, grrrr. Furthermore if I dropped a belt it WILL have something very valuable in it. Honestly this is a big reason I stopped enjoying pvp, the fight is simply not worth dying for.
Please don't compare nc present to beta, thats apples and oranges. Yes, even in early retail players primarily soloed. One Tank could kill nearly any mob in the game by himself. Do you have any idea why that was? Mobs were pansies back then, nothing compared to what we have now. KK has boosted mobs incredibly just to encourage grouping with a ppu. In regards to pvp, beta was entirely different aswell. No rares, player damage was generaly much lower, monks were pretty damn weak. So many factors have changed that making a comparison with beta is pointless.
I truely wish there was a way for a team to protect a ppu. Just shooting the attacker doesnt really matter much. If he manages to kill the ppu before he dies, then their side just scored a major victory. They lost one attacker, you lost your ppu. Assuming the ppu was prepared, rather then die, he will run away trying to shake you so he can go back and rez. So we'll have a merry little chase in which you try and chase the guy thats chasing the ppu, wee! During this time the ppu will be letting the rest of your team die, since he's runnin around. I would really like too see ppu's defenses lowered AND give the team some way to defend other players. Maybe damage done to the ppu is spread among the team, or some percentage of damage done. Or the Tank could play his role as a Tank and absorb damage to protect the weaker classes.
In regards to healing your team, maybe you guys are used to having a dozen ppu's on your team, but I'm not. Most often it was just me and a team of 8 or more. I can manage to keep heals on most of my team, but shelters? forget it.. I can't cast shelter 8 times on 8 moving targets while being shot at myself. Maybe if I was fortified in an op and they could run back to me for buffs it would work, but how often is there somewhere in neocron that has only one entrance? Theres only a couple I can think of. In short, it is much easier to let some ppl die and then ressurect them later rather then trying to keep everyone alive.
I'm highly skeptical that the NC community will adapt to this very fast at all. Maybe I've seen the dumber side of them for so long as a ppu. Remember how long it took before people started carrying around piercing weapons just to kill monks? It was at least two months, during which countless threads on the forum were shot down by "don't use energy weapons on the class with the best defense against energy" "oh" I can garuntee though that in the short term, this will cause a huge uproar. PPU's will not be with you at all times in combat, they will be hangin out in the back. Pokers are going to be in high demand.
A longer rezz is good , only crap players die all the time. Standing there watching a ppu rezzing a enemie u just killed is total nonsense...g00d change.
I went to the test server, to try with my pure, totally specialised, PPU monk there.
First I tried with my old classic hybrid. Didnt have enough PPU for holy rez, typical. Anyway, his normal rez was 1 minute 16 seconds.
My fully capped, DS/Psicore/Def2&3 PPU with PPU PA 3....
http://www.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/mana.jpg
Could not use the spell.
/edit - was 57 seconds on normal rez for that PPU
So it takes 57 seconds for your PPU to cast a normal ressurection, yet you've been preaching here that it takes 60 seconds without even bothering to test it first?
thats 57 seconds on a spell that takes 60 seconds, on my stop watch, on an NPC, which meant there was no waitin 1-3 seconds for the guy to be undead. Now, why dont you go find a nice gas oven, stick your head in it for a few hours, and turn it on full power, then, when this nerf comes in, start whining because no PPU will rez you, and you lose all your nice APU spells. Oh, and remember, your belt will be long hacked before a PPU can rez you, not that any in their right mind would rez a complete whiner like you :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Oh, and remember, your belt will be long hacked before a PPU can rez you, not that any in their right mind would rez a complete whiner like you :rolleyes:
It works both ways, you can get the belt from people you kill :rolleyes:
There's only one person here whining, and it's not me. Just because you're not getting your own way is no reason to start crying.
You can tell me how I'm not getting a rez until you're blue in the face, I don't mind GRing after I die.
Originally posted by Nexxy
It works both ways, you can get the belt from people you kill :rolleyes:
eh? I cant hack O_o
/edit @ above - ur the one always whining and crying for nerfs, nerf this, i cant kill this, i totaly suck, pls nerf it so i can kill it *crycrycrymoanonforums* lamer.
The thing I love about rezzing is, tho it 'can' totally screw meaningful combat, It is great for more combat. It really puts me off in games like AA or SOCOM where when you die, you have to wait ages to get back into the game. While this is very slightly more rewarding for winners because once your delt with thats it, for the losers its extremely boring.
Its true it puts you off dying, and you try much harder not to. Which I wouldnt say is a bad thing.
I can imagine feeling more than irritated about going to an op war only to more often that not end up doing 10+ mins (+ ranging up to hours for poking) of service per death to my char (remember GR rules sucking too so the battle will be over WAY before your back on your feet)
Also rezzing will become exclusive to the best players in a team, the best/monk players (^_^ and yes i play a monk often too...hehe) will be rezzed first, and probably will be the only ones to get rezzed as each ppu is destroyed by the enemy during rez.
This boost will nerf ppus , but probably boost monk-a-cron because they will be more needed than ever.
Im in two minds about the whole thing :/
Originally posted by Lexxuk
eh? I cant hack O_o
/edit @ above - ur the one always whining and crying for nerfs, nerf this, i cant kill this, i totaly suck, pls nerf it so i can kill it *crycrycrymoanonforums* lamer.
And you flame in just about every thread I start. Yet here you are yourself, boo hoo hoo kk changed my class so im not uber any more and i might actually die once a month please mommy make it better.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
eh? I cant hack O_o
/edit @ above - ur the one always whining and crying for nerfs, nerf this, i cant kill this, i totaly suck, pls nerf it so i can kill it *crycrycrymoanonforums* lamer.
So how do you know when someone dies your belt will be gone? Not everyone hack...
Originally posted by Scikar
And you flame in just about every thread I start. Yet here you are yourself, boo hoo hoo kk changed my class so im not uber any more and i might actually die once a month please mommy make it better.
umm, I'm the PPU, I *wont* die, it will be the whining lamers like *you* that end up dying, whilst the PPU stand there, with a whole team hammering on him/her and the PPU going "ya, whatever, go away, you cant kill me "yawn"
@ Nexx - the only belts that dont seem to get hacked, are them that are outside MC5, no idea why *g*. If you die in Pepper Park, you wont get a PPU rezzing you, the people that killed you however, they can be there with their hacker ready to grab your belt. Epic kills too, "looking for someone to waste 2 minutes of their life pls! have rezzer, might take a while!"
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 19:57
Originally posted by Scikar
And you flame in just about every thread I start. Yet here you are yourself, boo hoo hoo kk changed my class so im not uber any more and i might actually die once a month please mommy make it better.
This has nothing to do with me dying or living....it has everything to do with other players dying and NOT coming back. I will not sacrifice myself for this stupid length of time to rezz anybody (accept commie:D btw, ty for the sig). Anyway, I think that everything has been said that can be said. This will kill OP wars as we know them, and create more whining/nerfing for PPUs because it only neccesitates MORE PPUs, and MORE APUs. It solves nothing at all. You have your blinders on mate, and can only see this as a PPU nerf, so you're all for it.....when in reality it's nothing more than an across the board nerf for everybody.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Epic kills too, "looking for someone to waste 2 minutes of their life pls! have rezzer, might take a while!"
Then maybe people will do the epic kills the way KK wanted them too :rolleyes:
What does this have 2 do with epic's 40 sec is not a big deal at all just to rezz some1 and get a tip... o_O
Originally posted by Nexxy
Then maybe people will do the epic kills the way KK wanted them too :rolleyes:
but KK havent made the game viable for tradeskillers, so the people that die and lose something because of this, might find it very hard to replace them. Pokers, repairs, constructors, researchers, these 4 tradeskillers are an essential part of the game. They dont exist in great quantity anymore, though Zai came back <3. The fact of the matter is, death means bugger all because this game is so carebear, and tradeskilling is penalised heavily, and with the safeslot and belts, even more so.
/edit @ above - i stood there rezzing for 57 seconds, do you know how totally boring that is? you are standing there, with a glow coming from your hand, thinking "may as well go make a coffee" 1 minute is a long time when all you got to look at is a dead body.
Ghandis is 100% correct - I cannot see a way that this will be good. Ive actually yet to see a nerf thought up by players that has worked out well, ever. PPL are narrow minded and very seldom are thinking of genuine game balance - mainly about their own lil viewpoint.
WHY NOT MAKE A WAY TO GET RID OF BODIES IN PVP INSTEAD
If someones a pure pure pure tradeskiller, so pure they cant fight they have no use for the current epics.
they also have to stand in plaza 1 shouting their tradeskill nexx, when all you will drop is armour or a cheap ass spell. APU's will drop an expensive spell, spies, well, who cares about them, PPU's will be forced to give up PPU to stick into PSU, requiring even better spells, which they cant afford to drop, and PE's, well, they have spells, armour, stealths (some) and more then one weapon usualy, as well as titan armour.
Pure tradeskillers are rare, simply because there is no incentive to be a tradeskiller, the exp sucks, the skill is dull, and its a lot more fun to go kill stuff then keep pressing a button. Heck, I dont even bother poking anymore, cept myself :p
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 20:15
Originally posted by ZigZag
WHY NOT MAKE A WAY TO GET RID OF BODIES IN PVP INSTEAD
I've been saying this for months now.....I don't know why people don't like it. It will sovle monkocron to a certain degree, and it won't hurt PvM at all.
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 20:19
Originally posted by Nexxy
If someones a pure pure pure tradeskiller, so pure they cant fight they have no use for the current epics.
Then how do you suppose they get that SS, hawkins, and other chips needed for thier tradeskilling? Just because a person is a tradeskiller doesn't mean he doesn't deserve high level content.
shit shit shit Didn't mean to double post:o
i agree with the parashock nerf
but the rez nerf is just gay
If KK destroys the rez at 40 seconds the heat of battle wont be the same, the ppus don't need a rez nerf, its more like people can't handle a 10/min rezz
anyway i suggest bringing it down to 6-8/min
not to 2/min
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Then how do you suppose they get that SS, hawkins, and other chips needed for thier tradeskilling? Just because a person is a tradeskiller doesn't mean he doesn't deserve high level content.
shit shit shit Didn't mean to double post:o
You dont get those from epics...
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 20:48
Originally posted by Nexxy
You dont get those from epics...
Ah yes....thanks for pointing that out for me:rolleyes: ......
Under your logic "tradeskillers shouldn't need epics if they are pure tradeskillers", then how do they get the OTHER items I listed? High level content isn't (or shouldn't) be limited to fighting characters. kthxby.
Youre going so off topic, it was about rezzes from epic kills.
Disturbed021
09-12-03, 22:01
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Look on the bright side, OP warfare will become more definitive, and at the end of the battle there'll be plenty of time to rez the dead on your side since the enemy will be vanquished. The losing side will be the ones forced to generep and get poked, the winners won't have a problem.
As for hunting, well a PPU can keep themselves alive long enough in PvM for a resurrection to be carried out - if they can't stay alive against mobs then they're in the wrong job !
*turning off topic reply notification to reduce mailbox spam with flames*
Take care,
Reefie
Didn't bother reading any further than this post by Reef he says it perfectly.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I've been saying this for months now.....I don't know why people don't like it. It will sovle monkocron to a certain degree, and it won't hurt PvM at all.
I dont think it's a bad idea at all. But I'm guessing that if removing dead bodies in PvP was applied, shooting someone by accident in a cave might mean they vanished, and this could be used against other teams in MC5 to clear out the area (i think people drop tags etc even if they've only been hit once). Unless, going on what someone else said in this thread, this rule was applied to all zones but hunting zones.
ghandisfury
09-12-03, 22:21
Originally posted by numb
I dont think it's a bad idea at all. But I'm guessing that if removing dead bodies in PvP was applied, shooting someone by accident in a cave might mean they vanished, and this could be used against other teams in MC5 to clear out the area (i think people drop tags etc even if they've only been hit once). Unless, going on what someone else said in this thread, this rule was applied to all zones but hunting zones.
It would have to be a seperate weapon...I.E. I shoot player with Pain easer, then to remove him, I shoot him with the UBERNATOR;) . As far as MC5 comment you are refering to PvP not PvM, so why shouldn't those players be able to remove other players from MC5? Hunting zones would be the same, and you would lose SL just as you would shooting people.
Shadow Dancer
10-12-03, 02:32
Originally posted by Rade
You seem to miss the fact that many of us levelled completely
without PPUs and there was exactly no fucking problem at all
doing that. Its just now that people have gotten lazy.
yup, exactly.
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Oh and ignore the reference to 'spells' from the patch notes I copied - they were always PSI modules during beta, with vehement denial of magic being part of this game ! I think the devs have finally given up on that argument and have gone with the majority of the playerbase and now call them 'spells' ;) I for one will stick to the 'there's no magic' line :D
hahhaa, I thought i was the only one who noticed that.
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
EDIT : The only thing I can see that might reduce the effectiveness of APUs without killing their damage output is to force a targetting reticle for APU modules, but not for PPU modules. Oh, and kill off the third-person combat for monks, it really does take the mickey when they can shoot people who aren't really in their line of sight. Gentanks I can almost accept the third person argument due to the size of their weapon, but all in all this is a debatable topic that I shouldn't really raise because 1) it's off-topic ! 2) there are plenty of people who will tell me that I can use third person too :p
About the reticle, I think it's a good idea. Instead of damage being completely random, it should be based on how closed the reticle is on the target.
I disagree about killing off third-person view ONLY for monks. That's not fair. Do it for everyone or no one.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Exactly my point mate. But isn't this the intent? As far as the parashock change, it's still not enough (just needs to be removed imo).
Baby steps ghandi, baby steps... ;)
Originally posted by Lexxuk
40 seconds is way to long, esp when the dead person comes back, and are at high risk of just dropping dead again.
This is the only thing I kinda don't like. I think if ressurect is going to take as long as it does, perhaps it should give the ressed player basic resist 3+shelter+deflector+full health.
Anyways, as I suggested before. I think a better solution would be auto-gr after a set amount of time, and leaving rezz the way it is. who can complain against that? The ppu can still rezz underfire, he just has to be quick about it or can't run around hte op and parashock everyone or screw up 55 times then finally pull the ress off.
PvM wise, it might only be bad if the whole team dies. But god forbid a whole team dies and gets penalized for it. :rolleyes:
3rd person for monks is greatly exaggerated. There are only a few places where it is actually an issue, and most of those are PvM, not PvP. For 3rd person to actually be exploited by a monk in PvP pretty much requires both the monk and his target to be stood still. Which doesn't happen very often. :p
Originally posted by Scikar
For 3rd person to actually be exploited by a monk in PvP pretty much requires both the monk and his target to be stood still. Which doesn't happen very often. :p
In 3rd person a monk can attack people that are behind them. With creative use of camera movements you can attack people who are within a large radius of you even if they have cover.
Originally posted by Archeus
In 3rd person a monk can attack people that are behind them. With creative use of camera movements you can attack people who are within a large radius of you even if they have cover.
With 3rd person I can shoot people behind me with any character, not just my monk. And to pull it off requires that the target is stood still, and <5m behind me.
Originally posted by Scikar
With 3rd person I can shoot people behind me with any character, not just my monk. And to pull it off requires that the target is stood still, and <5m behind me.
Change the camera distance command and the APU gets thier full distance attack. Difference being with a gun is your shot still needs a line of sight where as the APU doesn't.
Originally posted by Archeus
Change the camera distance command and the APU gets thier full distance attack. Difference being with a gun is your shot still needs a line of sight where as the APU doesn't.
The distance on the external cam was locked recently though, wasn't it?
Besides it's hardly worth changing the camera distance to be able to shoot at full range behind you when it's quicker to move the mouse and spin around in the first place. :rolleyes:
haha 40 sec res? gonna be a sad day for templars:D
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