SL, then and now.

[Glok]

Old: You lost SL for killing ANY runner anywhere.
New: The various zone laws make it so you can kill all runners some places, some runners some places, and no runners some places.

Old: You got SL for killing mobs.
New: You have to run missions or kill red SL runners.

Old: You lost about 5 SL per kill.
New: You lose no SL for enemy (non hunting ground) or warzone kills, but you go negative in one kill for an 'illegal' kill.

Old: No safe slot, drop a quickbelt item on death, no belt.
New: Safe slot, drop one valuable item on death, red runners, no safeslot, drop 5 items, hackable belt for all.

There are certain old things I like better and certain new ones. Things that really suck about the new system are negative SL on one kill and the 5 drop for red runners. What out of the listed things would you like to see (again)?

[MindMaze]

All of them.

[Judge]

I would love to see the "Dropping five items on red sl death" fucking off because it basically means that noone can actually roleplay a Psycho or serial killer realistically. I want to but it would just never work because you would always lose loads of items.

[Rade]

Old system was better across the board.

[ReefSmoker]

Originally posted by Glok
Old: No safe slot, drop a quickbelt item on death, no belt.
New: Safe slot, drop one valuable item on death, red runners, no safeslot, drop 5 items, hackable belt for all.

Even Older : dropped entire quickbelt in one go, no need to hack it.

While I wasn't always keen on the oldest quickbelt system, I have found it looking more and more favourable in comparison to either of the more recent solutions.

It made you think long and hard about what you wanted to have equipped and ready for combat. Monks didn't like loosing a load of psi modules in one go, but as a monk back in beta 3 / 4 I had 3 psi modules in the qb, and the rest was psi boosters. Was no real hardship for me to loose the entire contents of it.

As an added benefit, tradeskillers didn't bother equipping a weapon unless they were out hunting - occasionally pkers would complain that they didn't get anything but that's their own tough sh*t for picking on a relatively defenceless person.

Good to see you Glok, pop by the old blue-tech irc channel if you like, some of us are still there ;)

Take care,

Reefie

EDIT : some of you might say that there were less psi modules back in beta, well that's partially true, but the reality was that we still had a large selection (remember apu and ppu wasn't a choice, monks had access to all psi modules) so it was always a case of choosing carefully.

[RayBob]

I like the idea of gaining SL for killing monsters--missions are a total bore. I think you should lose a set amount of SL (say 20) for killing someone in a hunting zone. Let's say you are generally a "good" person and have your SL up to 80. An enemy just Pked a low level clan mate in the sewers but if you go to kill him you go from 80 to -10 for one kill. This way you would go from 80 to 60. The result would be a little more killing and a little less carebear.

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Glok
Old: No safe slot, drop a quickbelt item on death, no belt.
New: Safe slot, drop one valuable item on death, red runners, no safeslot, drop 5 items, hackable belt for all.



I bet u must be really poor if psi boosters are valuable for ya :)

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Rade
Old system was better across the board.

Thats again the elite caste of PKers talking, not caring about the MAJORITY of the players.....

[Rade]

[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]

Ok sorry but I couldnt resist.

On a more serious note. No, the old looting system was not just
for the elite PKar bunch. It caused alot of circulation and
stimulated the economic system and that helped tradeskillers
alot. People hunted alot more because you always wanted more
rares so there was actually less boredome. And then lets not
forget about the adrenaline that came with the risk.

What you seem to fail to realise that back when the game was
like this I was a total noob, I was far up on the ass-waxings per
day ratings and had to get shit rebuilt or beg for rare parts more
than most people back then, mostly because I was stupid
enough not to back down or leg it when I should have. I founded
a clan called -STORM- a little later with some of the 14K Triad
people, and by then people were saying stuff like "I raded my
gun yesterday", meaning they got PKed and the gun looted. Yet
that was the absolutely best part of neocron ever, the fear
tension and the constant hunting and the PvP that ment
something... You cant really compare it to what we have now.

[Glok]

Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
I bet u must be really poor if psi boosters are valuable for ya :) WAHT? Make sense man... :rolleyes:

@Reefz0r: PM the pw to me and I'll drop in. Not tonight tho cause I'm a tad inebriated.

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Rade
[ edited ]

Ok sorry but I couldnt resist.

On a more serious note. No, the old looting system was not just
for the elite PKar bunch. It caused alot of circulation and
stimulated the economic system and that helped tradeskillers
alot. People hunted alot more because you always wanted more
rares so there was actually less boredome. And then lets not
forget about the adrenaline that came with the risk.

What you seem to fail to realise that back when the game was
like this I was a total noob, I was far up on the ass-waxings per
day ratings and had to get shit rebuilt or beg for rare parts more
than most people back then, mostly because I was stupid
enough not to back down or leg it when I should have. I founded
a clan called -STORM- a little later with some of the 14K Triad
people, and by then people were saying stuff like "I raded my
gun yesterday", meaning they got PKed and the gun looted. Yet
that was the absolutely best part of neocron ever, the fear
tension and the constant hunting and the PvP that ment
something... You cant really compare it to what we have now.

First of all, that guy looks better than meh :p

I can understand the exciment you get from that kind of pvp. I wasnt aruond at the time so i dont have first hand experience.
It wouldnt be that much of an issue if there were no rares. But at the moment if u loose a rare weapon the only thing u get would be a ticket to return to the rare collecting threadmil with all its insane prices and ripoffs. You may not have a problem ( i dont have a problem either cause i am financially well off on all my chars) because as you stated you are an old player with a plethora of rare equipment so loosing a judjge or ROLH aint a great issue. But for the casual player (1 hour/day max) loosing that pain easer he has played for a month to get is bad. Especially if he gets ganged by the pk clans that are bound to appear that way. This will lead to disatisfied customers and to more quitings. Contemplate on this for a while :)

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Glok
WAHT? Make sense man... :rolleyes:

@Reefz0r: PM the pw to me and I'll drop in. Not tonight tho cause I'm a tad inebriated.

You stated that with the current system you drop valuable items. But i am a belt hacker and i doubt ive ever got anything worth more than 20 ncr from a belt in the last 3 months...

[Rade]

I once lost three liberators in a week. This was almost a year ago
when rares were actually rare, and liberator was the king of
rares. The first one I had gotten all parts for myself, throughout a
few months of agonizing farming. I got to use it for a good 15
minutes before Elkdor snagged it. If you werent around back
then then I dont think you understand how big deal getting ahold
of a rare weap was then. Yes I know exactly how agonizing it can
be. But it brought more positive things than negative.

[Parappa]

I don't want the old "'ONOZ! That d00d ownzor m3h' *empties qb to inventory* 'Haa, haa y00 g3t n0tH1ng.'" -thingie to come back :(

[Glok]

The important thing to note here is that rare weapons would not only be rare, but they would be USED rarely. You would see people using the store obtainable weapons a lot more, and losing them too. Constructors would be so much in demand I bet instead of a PPU alt, everyone would have a constructor alt. And as Rade says, it was much more exciting knowing you could lose your favorite weapon, but you also knew it was replaceable.

[Glok]

Originally posted by Parappa
I don't want the old "'ONOZ! That d00d ownzor m3h' *empties qb to inventory* 'Haa, haa y00 g3t n0tH1ng.'" -thingie to come back :( What's wrong with that? If you do the QB to inv thing then you know you are a loser, as does the PKer. But that rule doesn't have to come back. I think a balance between old and new could work great.

[Rade]

Originally posted by Parappa
I don't want the old "'ONOZ! That d00d ownzor m3h' *empties qb to inventory* 'Haa, haa y00 g3t n0tH1ng.'" -thingie to come back :(

I agree completely, the big problem here is that you never got a
fun fight because people dragged their weapon to their inventory
instead of fighting back. We should keep the "drop one of the 10
highest TL items" system, that is more or less the only good
change so far.

[ReefSmoker]

Originally posted by Parappa
I don't want the old "'ONOZ! That d00d ownzor m3h' *empties qb to inventory* 'Haa, haa y00 g3t n0tH1ng.'" -thingie to come back :(

Fair point - however only folk who didn't want to fight back were eager to do that back in the day. When it comes down to PvP I like to at least pick a good fight, I don't go picking on people who are easy pickings. Also while not entirely relevant (due to a lack of quickbelts in OP warfare) do you think people fighting for an OP would stuff all their items into their inventory and let themselves die if they were to loose their quickbelt ?? They'd almost certainly be kicked out of their clan for being a coward and letting the team down !!

Your statement makes you sound like you're the type of person who will kill anyone far below your level - if you're going to fight, at least pick a fair one.

Take care,

Reefie

[Leebzie]

Its was difficult for me to understand about increasing drops etc (though I have overcome most of that now) because I spent my Neocron youth being killed by /60 Gentanks who took my (to them) useless weapons.

Hell, the smile on my face when belt drops came in. Though i can understand frustration, now that I can kill too (ok, im still a /60+ n00b lol)

It was : omg a flashing swirly gun thing *moves all important items to Inv, in a carefully rehearsed pattern to allow most needed items in first*

[superfresh]

I like the old stuff, but prefer the new belt system. If I'm caught travelling alone I don't think 3 attacking APU's and 2 PPU's (for example) deserve my rare item. They take too long to collect parts for. I also don't think low-mid level chars are around for high level ones to farm items off of. Noob kill? Sure, maybe. Get their best item? Not really deserved IMO.

I also don't imagine that sort of system would enchance the PvP element of the game; You get killed. You lose your primary weapon. You're out of PvP commision until you can schlep parts up for a replacement.

And now that I think about it, it would further polarize faction populations. Players would be even more compelled to join one of the 2 or 3 mega factions floating around, since they can offer better security. They would also, unquestionably, be the ones hoarding all of the drops.

Also consider this - the safe slot allows for newer players to get better at PvP. They always have something to fight back with, if they so choose.

[shodanjr_gr]

Quite simply, if rares were removed from the game and construction caps increased a bit on all items, i would be all in for the old belt system. But as it is atm, no i dont want it.

[Psycho Killa]

Not only people that couldnt fight back stuffed there belt

I was in countless fights where hell I wouldnt even start the fight but at the first sign of danger that they where going to lose they would stuff there quickbelt :(.

[Rade]

I think some of you people overlook the importance of rare. When
two APUs fight, one with Energy Beam and one with HL, its skill
thats goint to determine the outcome, not necesarily the
weapon. The same goes for Blacksun vs Liberator, Judge, and
RoLH. TPC is very valid for tanks, I know that some of the best
tanks around actually use TPC for fighting every now and then, it
packs quite a punch. For riflers its a bit harsher but DOY rayguns
are easily obtained or purchased and thats a VERY good gun.

Not having a rare does NOT mean that you cant compete. It
would just add more diversity to the game, with people using
what they have, more none-rares, and more underdog rares such
as BoH etc.

And for the doomsaying about the old loot system, that it would
polatize factions etc.. we had this system once, it did none of
these things, the game was great back then. But KK wanted to
compromise between the carebears and the PKers and ended up
making a boring game.

[ReefSmoker]

One thing I realise now that I didn't consider when mentioning the oldest belt system was the unfairness of many vs one - thanks for reminding me of that Psycho Killa, if the odds were highly stacked against me then I daresay I would be tempted to say 'sod it' and pack my stuff in my belt too ;)

Ok so I've been absent from the forums (well, lurking...) so I'm bound to trip up a few times - shoot me !! :p

Take care,

Reefie

[Rade]

As I said earlier, the part where you dropped an item from your
QB was complete crap, that should not be taken back. The rest
however was damn neat.

**edit: And it wasnt crap because you dropped one of your best
items pretty often, it was crap because that it hindered fighting,
and thats just wrong.

[Glok]

Originally posted by Rade
We should keep the "drop one of the 10
highest TL items" system, that is more or less the only good
change so far. Agreed. But everything else should go back the way it was. I haven't been excited in PvP since the safe slot and belts were introduced. :(

[Psycho Killa]

Me either glok me either.

[ReefSmoker]

Ack, if you did understand what I was saying then feel free to have a go at me, I'm not sure if folk have missed what I was saying about the oldest qb drop system or not, plus it's late and I'm tired ;)

With the original qb system, you dropped your entire quickbelt contents, all 10 items, in a nicely packaged quickbelt that could be opened by anyone without any hackskill. It wasn't fun to loose the lot, but it was what happened.

Basically there was no point trying to cheat the system by having loads of chitin in the qb along with your weapon and psi modules, because the entire lot dropped. The only failsafe was when some people would quickly start dragging the whole lot into their inventory to safeguard it - but as I've already said, I'm into fair fights so I never saw that as an issue. If someone did that when I was fighting them then I realised I was fighting the wrong person.

I guess it was different then because factions and soul light had little meaning, so it was up to the players to choose who we fought, and because there weren't outposts or rares etc it was all a bit simpler and easier to pick and choose (I did write slice and dice but then figured it was open to misinterpretation so changed it :p ).

I'll shut up now, you probably all heard me correctly the first time round and I'm just making myself look foolish :confused:

Take care all,

Reefie

[Glok]

Hey, I understood Reef. That system would totally fuck monks hardcore though. The drop 1/10 most valuable item is a good deal I think.