View Full Version : People DO appreciate the ppu afterall.
As i've stated before, one of my favorite things to do is to go into the aggie sewers and heal/buff people that are leveling. IT is especially great if that person has never had a ppu babysitting him before. It gives me quite a great deal of satisfaction to see how excited these guys get to know that they are invinsible to mobs that they died with ease to previously.
Last night I went in the aggie sewers and just followed around a guy for a bit and then he said he had to get more ammo and I asked him where he was going...He said to some aggie pit near Emmerson. I thought, heck I would follow him around for a bit. I had no idea he had never had a ppu to help him. So we go and this aggie pit was fairly pathetic, so I told him of a better one (the one east of chester). So on the way there we see multiple warbots and i tell him to just go right up into their face and start firing away. He does this and gets multiple tech parts out of his first one. And he is sitting there typing in "OMG, this is so cool," "lmao, this owns," "i'm leveling so quickly this would take me ages alone." I tell him to keep all the techs and I figure he probably doesn't have a whole lot of money so he just caught me on a day when i had no greed in my system.
So then we go to the cyclops pit near chester and he is basically holding the trigger button down the whole time as i keep him alive (was hard at times, spy vs 7+ cyclops launchers and a bunch of aggressor captains and hurlers isn't a good combo heh).
We go back to NC after this and all he is saying is "WOW, WOW, WOW." to me in direct message. He says "i've been trying to get those last 4 dex levels for a very long time, thank you."
He then opens up his trade and I'm expecting maybe he wants to give me a tech part or two. NOPE. He proceeds to type out 75000 and I'm thinking okay, woah, someone actually giving me 75k for ppuing them. No, doesn't stop there, he gives me 750,000 and at first i tell him its way too much and i can't accept it. He tells me that it would have taken him such a large amount of time to get those levels that it was the least he could do.
And i had 17k to my name as being a ppu you are constantly broke always buying new spells and pa.
So i don't know the point of this story other than some people actually do appreciate what a ppu does for them. And for guys like him, i would have done it for free.
My clan appreciates my PPU :p
specially in our secret little leveling spot and soon at MC5 (when I level a tad bit more)
MWA HA HA HA!
Originally posted by bounty
So then we go to the cyclops pit near chester and he is basically holding the trigger button down the whole time as i keep him alive (was hard at times, spy vs 7+ cyclops launchers and a bunch of aggressor captains and hurlers isn't a good combo heh).
Not to shoot you down or anything, but this is exactly my problem
with PPUs. It removes skill. You go up in the face of the mob, put
a weight on the left mousebutton and go catch a movie.
greendonkeyuk
08-12-03, 19:33
thats a cool story man, its nice people do show the ppu some loving from time to time. it is a thankless task and usually as the ppu youre the first to take criticism when someone dies and youre the last one to get a share in the loot from what ive seen. nowadays when im ppuing i play with clan mates alone. noone outside of my clan gets my assistance as you never seem to get thanked for it. selfish i know but shit happens. i read a post a lil while back about some dude bitchin there were never any cave teams at crp/cycrow anymore on some server. the grief ppus get i can see why now. however its nice stories like this that make me want to ppu for people again.
I can understand that response for pvp, but as if there was ever really any skill to killing mobs. I had a tank and a spy, it wasn't a matter of skill, it was a matter of mindless shooting. Hiding behind a tree or hill to rebuff and heal was only a time sink, i don't see why taking away that time sink takes away skill.
You see it as a time sink, me and a shitload of people I know see
it as the defining feature of Neocron: the combat system in which
you dont latch on to the mobs and let the system handle
everything while you go boil an egg (EQ AO DaoC SW:G or more
or less any other mmorpg until this day... old MUD legacy which
Neocron is taking a big step against removing). To remove that is
a big deal to many of us.
Don't think for a second, this guy didn't have to dodge, move and aim the entire time. It's just with the enhancements I gave him, death wasn't a worry for him. I'm sure you buff and heal when you fight mobs, do you not?
Besides this is a guy that doesn't have that 5 slotted rare weapon to hunt with and the 4 slotted heals.
Of course I do, any reason you want to dumb this down to a
kindergarden level? I think you get my point and I wasnt aiming
at starting another "nerf PPU"-discussion.
Leveling with a PPU will alway be easier then leveling without one. Right now leveling without a PPU is hard enough. Leveling with a PPU at some places can even be hard.
Originally posted by Rade
Not to shoot you down or anything, but this is exactly my problem
with PPUs. It removes skill. You go up in the face of the mob, put
a weight on the left mousebutton and go catch a movie.
I respect what you have to say rade, but if this wasn't aiming at starting another PPU nerf thread, then what exactly the hell was the point of saying that?
Originally posted by petek480
Leveling with a PPU will alway be easier then leveling without one. Right now leveling without a PPU is hard enough. Leveling with a PPU at some places can even be hard.
Funny since I always have and still do level without PPUs,
regardless of class. As soon as a PPU comes around it gets
boring no matter what you are doing - PvM or PvP. Giving you a
win-button isnt fun, yes your life will be easier, but games arent
about being easy, they are about giving proper reward for proper
risk and effort.
**edit: @bounty: Some people seem to be abit confused as to
what my problem with PPUs is. This is a perfect example, that
was the point of saying that.
Originally posted by Rade
Funny since I always have and still do level without PPUs,
regardless of class. As soon as a PPU comes around it gets
boring no matter what you are doing - PvM or PvP. Giving you a
win-button isnt fun, yes your life will be easier, but games arent
about being easy, they are about giving proper reward for proper
risk and effort.
Games aren't about one person either. Not everyone likes to level by themselves. Some like to level with PPUs. If you don't and think it's too easy then don't, but some enjoy it. I'm one of those people, when I'm leveling I don't like to die and then go get myself poked and everything just to resume my leveling. Most of the time after I die I don't even feel like going back and leveling. So just becuase you think it's boring doesn't mean everyone does.
Originally posted by petek480
Games aren't about one person either. Not everyone likes to level by themselves. Some like to level with PPUs. If you don't and think it's too easy then don't, but some enjoy it. I'm one of those people, when I'm leveling I don't like to die and then go get myself poked and everything just to resume my leveling. Most of the time after I die I don't even feel like going back and leveling. So just becuase you think it's boring doesn't mean everyone does.
Yeah, and I should put my rare weapons in an unlocked QB slot
so that I can drop em when I die just because I like having
looting? Sorry, doesnt work like that. More or less all aspects of
neocron was more fun before PPUs, now we are spoiled and
would cry bloody murder if the game would become harder than
tic-tac-toe again.
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah, and I should put my rare weapons in an unlocked QB slot
so that I can drop em when I die just because I like having
looting? Sorry, doesnt work like that. More or less all aspects of
neocron was more fun before PPUs, now we are spoiled and
would cry bloody murder if the game would become harder than
tic-tac-toe again.
Apparently you didn't see my point. My point was just because you think having PPUs with you makes the game less fun isn't true with everyone. This game doesn't force you to level with a PPU, so if you don't like to level with an PPU then don't.
And I dont think its fun that people dont drop loot when they die.
Or that items deteriorate too slow, etc. But these are things that
should be built into the game, you cant honestly mean that
people that wants that challenge should be throwing their rares
away by themselves just to buy new ones? I understand
completely what you mean, but unless everyone would follow
those self-inflicted rules its useless for one person to do it. It just
means that said person would be a gimp both level and
equipment-wise and get smacked around insanely whenever
fighting someones else since they have ppus.
Originally posted by bounty
People DO appreciate the ppu afterall.
Until they become a capped PE then they just become grumpy and bitter. :lol:
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah, and I should put my rare weapons in an unlocked QB slot
so that I can drop em when I die just because I like having
looting? Sorry, doesnt work like that. More or less all aspects of
neocron was more fun before PPUs, now we are spoiled and
would cry bloody murder if the game would become harder than
tic-tac-toe again.
Rade you have just claimed on another thread that you do exactly that (put rare weapons in an unlocked slot), and you like looting? o_O Whats your point?
Originally posted by Archeus
Rade you have just claimed on another thread that you do exactly that (put rare weapons in an unlocked slot), and you like looting? o_O Whats your point?
Ok, let me refrase. Put a rare weapon outside the locked slot only
with the purpose to have it looted. Yes I have on occation carried
rares outside the locked slot because I had more than one rare
with me but that doesnt have anything to do with this example.
Originally posted by Archeus
Until they become a capped PE then they just become grumpy and bitter. :lol:
Well... yes... :p
Rade, skill is relative. You find Neocron needing skill for PvP, but my buds still playing JumpGate find Neocron as bad as everything else out there. No matter how much "skill" you have in Neocron, it still comes down to calculations by the game as to who wins.
If you want real skill, have you tried a game like JumpGate? PvP in that game is 100% player controlled skill. No percentages of damage. No probability. Just straight up flight sim skill.
But back to the subject.
Dont indict the PPU- its not the presence of the PPU, its how the PPU has evolved. Ever since I started playing Neocron in beta the PPUs have been around, and they have always played a role in how things happen in terms of PvM or PvP. Its only recently (relatively speaking) that the PPU became a menace to balance in the game. Back when I was first a PPU on Pluto right when Pluto started, if you were a PPU people pitied you, and really valued your services. It sucked being a PPU, and their presence did NOT mess up PvP in any way.
And in regards to levelling, there IS a timesink factor. You take a spy that is levelling against Launchers. Once you figure out how to beat them, WHAMMO, no more skill is learned. Solo Spy can beat a launcher, lets say, in 8 minutes. Solo Spy plans on killing 50 launchers total. Same Spy with a PPU assist can kill a launcher in 4 minutes. So he cuts the time in half.
Assuming the Spy can readily defeat the launcher solo, where is the loss in skill? Where is the harm to the Spy or the game? Why would you be concerned if that Spy saves a few minutes of doing the same task over and over?
If this was a true game of skill, I would agree with you. But PvM in Neocron takes very little skill, unless you call learning the patterns of the mobs "skill."
I played JG and loved it, as far as skill in MMORPG goes JG is king. However the presence of percentage and skill systems in the game doesnt have to be detrimental to amount of necesary player skill.
Originally posted by Rade
Not to shoot you down or anything, but this is exactly my problem
with PPUs. It removes skill. You go up in the face of the mob, put
a weight on the left mousebutton and go catch a movie.
Ok so me on my spy leveling at crp caves and such with a ppu shows I have no skill?
Well rade I doubt I could catch a movie in the crp caves with a team and ppu as a spy or any other class.
You also forget 'people' also play ppus and not all have the same view as you, this is mmorpg people differ greatly.
Each person has/likes thier role to play. Just because you like to do it your own way doesn't negate a whole class who like to do it another way. You could say apus ruin it as they do too much damage to your mobs... the list is endless depending on your type of play and class.
Oh maybe I should clarify another thing, I dont mind the PPU
concept (except for the fact that I dont like magic in a cyberpunk
game but whatever, different issue, I accept what we have here),
I just think that its incredibly overpowered. All combinations
should be more or less equal, tank+pe, spy+ppu apu+pe
tank+tank etc. The defensive boost a ppu brings to a team
shouldnt be bigger than the offensive boost other chars bring,
thats what ofsets balance.
"Magic" is only a word that we use to explain science we cannot understand yet. :p
Originally posted by Archeus
"Magic" is only a word that we use to explain science we cannot understand yet. :p
I agree. But you get my point. I like my cyberpunk dark and gritty,
not with D&D wizards flinging fireballs.
Originally posted by Rade
Oh maybe I should clarify another thing, I dont mind the PPU
concept (except for the fact that I dont like magic in a cyberpunk
game but whatever, different issue, I accept what we have here),
I just think that its incredibly overpowered. All combinations
should be more or less equal, tank+pe, spy+ppu apu+pe
tank+tank etc. The defensive boost a ppu brings to a team
shouldnt be bigger than the offensive boost other chars bring,
thats what ofsets balance. I will agree with everything you say here.
This discussion kinda of reminds me of the MUD I used to play. (In advance: I know the two situations aren't actually same - one just reminded me of the other)
Used to be you generally grouped with folks your level and if you managed to find a cleric or two it'd be rocking. VERY occasionally some high level character might smile on you and cast a few spells, follow you around healing you, etc. When that happened it was great, everyone was really appreciative and loved the temporary power.
The problem (for me, not for half the people playing) was that eventually this became the norm. When I log on now, people will not even try to level without a high level character to at least buff the whole group, preferably follow them around healing too. This was partly cos all the older players with high level chars kept making new chars, which they grouped with their other old-timer friends' chars and naturally used their existing high level ones to make life easier for each other.
Now, that part, as I said at the start, isn't really a parallel with neocron - besides certain parts of the game, people can and do still go without ppu support much of the time, and won't usually "require" a ppu significantly above their current rank.
The part that does parallel is that I kinda agree with what Rade has said - back on the MUD I politely turned down all spellup/heal offers (besides from similar level groupies - given the game had like 1000 levels, you can imagine the difference in buff power from a high level to a low level cleric). Simply because I found it boring when I was buffed to that extent. Sure it made the (not especially exciting) levelling treadmill shorter, but it also removed what little excitement remained in that treadmill.
Most people didn't see it that way though - the veterans saw it as a way of avoiding the levelling grind while the newbies were too caught up in the first-time-buff awe to really think about it. And then it just became the norm.
Why do I post this here? Dunno. I suppose I have the slight concern that the same could happen on Neocron.
Let's face it, a similar thing has already happened for much of the populace in PvP - the advantage having a highish ppu around (I'd estimate the equivalent of a level 200 buffing a level 10 on that MUD) is such that many simply won't even try to PvP without one.
I'd just hate to see the same happen in the mob world too as the challenge and risk of dying is one of the few things that makes it even vaguely interesting (that and levelling up stats + gear). As it is I like having a low level ppu along since with their low level spells it's still challenging. But once we get higher I'd rather they weren't there as it gets too easy - and I hate the effective requirement for them in certain places (or at least, that they are required over and above all other classes by a huge margin).
(if this doesn't contribute much to the thread, just take it as some guy ranting about his pet peeves with an old game he played :p)
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