View Full Version : Hybrids wtf ?
[TgR]KILLER
06-12-03, 15:34
notice the HUGE grow of hybrids ? their comming back.. its bloody scarry.. NERF them KK now u still can :D
no realy.. why the heck are they all comming back.. i'v seen like 10 ppl lomming to hybrid agian. what happend ( imo there was no patch ) that made them so good again ? or is it just now the halo looks cool that everybody is lomming ? lol
anyway here's a poll.. dit u notice alot of hybrids lately ? ( on pluto anyway )
Psyco Groupie
06-12-03, 15:42
theres a few on uranus but they mostly get outdamaged by apus and are leveling real slow, i belive the apu kami hybrid is wot everyone is aiming for, so they can hunt alone or something ... I cant see the point reallythey arent gonna be good enough to solo mc5 or anything and an apu can solo everything else
heh oh well ;P
Ive made a hybrid setup that shadowdancers tryin out, would be interesting to see how it works out as its 'nearly' got PPU defence with a capped holy halo :)
not just on pluto...
the best hybrid i saw so far was 127/71... on venus.. his sig says :" no im not dropping MC5 part. :)
he pretty much solo anything and rez... i saw him against kami at MB and he almost did them on his own...
since the kami for apu came out its easier to do a hybrid because of the huge gain of apu point.. i bet KK never saw that one coming.. They did chip that where suppose to help every one at great cost in ressit but end-up doing only yet another tweak to psi.. who really deserved one.
ghandisfury
06-12-03, 16:04
I did hybrid for a bit.....it was super-D-duper for PvM, but if I saw an APU, I was done for. There is simply no way to escape the negative energy effects.....so if you see a hybrid, hit him with energy all the way.;)
Haven't had problems with hybrids so far, even though I've seen a few. Dropping them with HL seems fairly easy, they don't seem to like SpeedGun either. Lots of people going hybrid though, so I guess maybe they're not nerfed to oblivion. ;)
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Ive made a hybrid setup that shadowdancers tryin out, would be interesting to see how it works out as its 'nearly' got PPU defence with a capped holy halo :)
WTF!!! show me a char with this set up fenix so i can shoot him in the face, i know your talking shit, "nearly got ppu defence" my ass.
BTW hybrids where never unviable, people just freaked out and started lomming without continueing or adjusting their set up, they are however only viable in duels, they dont fair well in team or op based combat.
ghandisfury
06-12-03, 17:00
Originally posted by REMUS
WTF!!! show me a char with this set up fenix so i can shoot him in the face, i know your talking shit, "nearly got ppu defence" my ass.
He's correcto!!:D Only thing that hurt me was energy....I had PPU defence (or there abouts) against speed gat and fire/xray/poison.
Originally posted by REMUS
WTF!!! show me a char with this set up fenix so i can shoot him in the face, i know your talking shit, "nearly got ppu defence" my ass.
BTW hybrids where never unviable, people just freaked out and started lomming without continueing or adjusting their set up, they are however only viable in duels, they dont fair well in team or op based combat.
come again ?
This is no drugs, Spy3/Melee3/Heat3/HolyDef/BlessedShelt but can use holy shelt
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/test/uploads/DSKami.JPG
Ive put it down as blessed as im not 100% sure what damage% it would get on holy shelt etc, the ROF probably wouldnt be capped but it should cap holy halo. As you can see, it aint gonna be takin that much damage, probably a nightmare to play like the old hybrids as youve only got a 10 space QB, but im sure its managable :)
So REMUS what you gonna say about that one ? Yes its 'on paper' but thats near to PPU resists, if their careful with either a holy heal if its decent enough or just blessed, its still gonna be rock solid for 1v1 and probably pretty good for multiple opponents, the setup that shad's got off me is slightly different, does not use a DS and has a slightly different setup
gat/PE/Lib's gonna hurt if you aint careful and cant strafe properly, but hell, they hurt as it is :p
[Edit] The PSIs etup could do with some tweaking, atm its set for holy buffs, lvl 3 buffs, holy halo. the whole setup could be 'tweaked' tbh I only made it in about 10-15 mins . . .
[Edit2] LOL just noticed 1 'mistake' that setups got the wrong eye in, should be SCE1, not gonna make that much difference tho :p
i wont beilve it untill i can shoot this hybrid with any of my cs's at your monk and i see a red 10 appear above its head.
EDIT: that doesnt seem to take into consideration the shelter+def penalty or the monk nerf o_O
Originally posted by REMUS
i wont beilve it untill i can shoot this hybrid with any of my cs's at your monk and i see a red 10 appear above its head.
well like i said ive made a setup, as you can see above, and on paper it has ''PPU defence''
Its down as using a blessed def as im not 100% sure what damage it would get on its shelt/def etc cause i havent played a post nerf hybrid.
You asked to see it, there it is.
[Edit] If lom's are workin on the test server i'd make the char, but you'd really need rebuilt spells :|
hybrids without DS and/or kami isnt very viable. so i guess hybrids are reserved for the rich or the lucky people :(
BLESSED SHEILDS DO NOT = PPU DEFENCE!!!!!!! so i cant see how u reached the capped blessed = capped holy conclusion????
Originally posted by Furion
hybrids without DS and/or kami isnt very viable. so i guess hybrids are reserved for the rich or the lucky people :(
i would definately agree with you im totally against mc5 cpus thats why i havnt used one yet, although with the growing competition using herc's im going to have to methinks.
i have 512 hp with pa3 and 518 with duranium 4 vest and most of my tank competitors have 550+ at the same rank as me so i think its time for a change but, hyrbids are a rich mans sport.
i dont use monks for the simple fact that they are so easy to play, pes are very easy to play as well with ray weapons, tanks and spies are being put in the same boat at the moment except the tank pushed the spy into the water and rowed off without him hehe.
Originally posted by REMUS
BLESSED SHEILDS DO NOT = PPU DEFENCE!!!!!!! so i cant see how u reached the capped blessed = capped holy conclusion????
? It will be probably using holy shelter, however as IM NOT FUCKING SURE WHAT DAMAGE PERCENTAGE IT WOULD GET I put it down as blessed as a estimation, like I said its 'on paper' and will need testing, jesus....
yeah basically shit and no where near ppu defence i dont know why you are argueing with me, a capped hybrid will not have a capped ppus defence, not a chance in hell, on paper if you got the calculations right or ingame.
AND IF YOUR NOT FUCKING SURE DONT SAY IT
Fenyx, the design looks promising. It's a shame I don't have a DS nor PP chip nor the apu kami.
I heard from someone that when you use the PP chip, your resists are actually 'positive' instead of being near 0 or 0. Is that true? I'd like to know what tactic would be best when facing a hybrid. I know I can't kill em 1on1, due to their defenses :\
Hybrids are a pain in the ass. Me (my apu) and Lvirus' (his ppu) had a lot of trouble from Mumblyfish when we fought him. I was down like half the time :o
So.. get me those chips and I'll restore my hybrid as well ^^
// Wannabe
Psyco Groupie
06-12-03, 17:45
REMUS can you fook off the the french forum, your constantly flaming and missing the point entirely
juvestar15
06-12-03, 17:46
That pic is pretty silly Fenix. You have to cover up more than that to hide the resist numbers. I bet i can guess what they are. :D
Originally posted by REMUS
yeah basically shit and no where near ppu defence i dont know why you are argueing with me, a capped hybrid will not have a capped ppus defence, not a chance in hell, on paper if you got the calculations right or ingame.
AND IF YOUR NOT FUCKING SURE DONT SAY IT
if your not so fucking sure yourself why fucking argue ? ive never seen you play a APU/PPU/Hybrid and i doubt you have, all i know that youve played is your tank, and a PE that you didnt even setup. SD's using a setup very close to that, he'll be PVP ready v soon, were just finishing off capping his PSI atm, if you wanna duel him im sure he'll fight you
''This is my logic''
It will be using holy shelter, im not 100% sure what damage it would get on it, however to 'balance' this i put it down as using a blessed shelter, as you fucking pointed out with such ignorance, i DO know that a fucking blessed shelter is less than a holy shelt, jesus, however the shelters not the only fucking thing that keeps a PPU alive . . its the heal, that setups gonna be tested with blessed and holy, to see whats more effective. REMUS if you have the ability to see the future then ill tkae your word for it that that setups gonna fail, if you dont, then just stfu and let us try this out for christs sake, if you wanna fight this char, then fight it once weve got SD's PSI capped, his setup is extremely close to this one, he's said it caps a holy halo, that bloody hurts enough as it is, try fighting a APU with holy halo, then think of that APU having foreign cast holy buffs on him, being able to heal himself, as thats around about what its gonna be wearing IMO cause of the 'hybrid effect' takin the damage down on his PPU spells
[Edit]
Originally posted by juvestar15
That pic is pretty silly Fenix. You have to cover up more than that to hide the resist numbers. I bet i can guess what they are. :D
Well i was talkin to remus and if you look at his posts, i doubt he could work em out even if he had that prog . . .
[EDIT2]
Just for the books REMUS, dont talk down to me like i dont know shit, im sick and fucking tired of fucking ignoramuses talking down to me like ive been playing the game got 5 minutes and dont know how to setup a char, i have played EVERY char, APU/PPU/Hybrid/RiflePE/PistolPE/HCTank/PistolTank/RifleTank/MeleeTank/PistolSpy/RifleSpy/Droner hell i even had a 'melee PE' for a while outta boredome. . .thats the one i lommed to rifle on saturn. My Pistol PE with a defensive Blacksun/lib setup took 17 holy lightnings one after the other and lived, 18th woulda killed him, had around 15 witnesses and yes, it was a capped holy lightening, my Kami pistol PE I had before rizzy got banned (as it is on his account) took 2 CS clips to take him down, CLIPS NOT BURSTS, so REMUS, When you can make yourself a setup thats comparable to those, then ill start listening to you . . . I have witnesses to my chars taking those hits, Harbinger was the APU with the fully capped HL that shot me 17 times, and Bloodhawk was the tank with capped damage CS, all shots hitting while i stood still, 2 CLIPS to take down a buffed Kami pistol PE . . .
>if your not so fucking sure yourself why fucking argue ? ive >never seen you play a APU/PPU/Hybrid and i doubt you have, all >i know that youve played is your tank, and a PE that you didnt >even setup. SD's using a setup very close to that, he'll be PVP >ready v soon, were just finishing off capping his PSI atm, if you >wanna duel him im sure he'll fight you.
np with that, and the pe i did set up myself with QD's help, hes still not finished, i know the amount of skill you need to cap certain areas and i know that after the monk nerfs hybrid defence isnt even 50% of what is was so yeah i would say you are full of shit on this point, you have 4-5 accounts and you cant master any of them, at least my tank is in the top 5 on pluto none of your accounts are fucking anywhere near the top 10 of any class.
>"This is my logic''
-It will be using holy shelter, im not 100% sure what damage >itwould get on it, however to 'balance' this i put it down as >using a blessed shelter, as you fucking pointed out with such >ignorance, i DO know that a fucking blessed shelter is less than >a holy shelt, jesus, however the shelters not the only fucking >thing that keeps a PPU alive . . its the heal, that setups gonna >be tested with blessed and holy, to see whats more effective. >REMUS if you have the ability to see the future then ill tkae your >word for it that that setups gonna fail, if you dont, then just stfu >and let us try this out for christs sake, if you wanna fight this >char, then fight it once weve got SD's PSI capped, his setup is >extremely close to this one, he's said it caps a holy halo, that >bloody hurts enough as it is, try fighting a APU with holy halo, >then think of that APU having foreign cast holy buffs on him, >being able to heal himself, as thats around about what its >gonna be wearing IMO cause of the 'hybrid effect' takin the >damage down on his PPU spells.
I dont nee to see into the future i know that the set up is good, my point is your hybrid WONT HAVE PPU defence im not personally insulting you although im beginning to think you are over sensitive and slightly stupid.
>[Edit]
>Well i was talkin to remus and if you look at his posts, i doubt >he could work em out even if he had that prog . . .
evidently neither can you.
[EDIT2]
>Just for the books REMUS, dont talk down to me like i dont know >shit, im sick and fucking tired of fucking ignoramuses talking >down to me like ive been playing the game got 5 minutes and >dont know how to setup a char, i have played EVERY char, >APU/PPU/Hybrid/RiflePE/PistolPE/HCTank/PistolTank/RifleTank/Mel>eeTank/PistolSpy/RifleSpy/Droner hell i even had a 'melee PE' for >a while outta boredome. . .thats the one i lommed to rifle on >saturn. My Pistol PE with a defensive Blacksun/lib setup took 17 >holy lightnings one after the other and lived, 18th woulda killed >him, had around 15 witnesses and yes, it was a capped holy >lightening, my Kami pistol PE I had before rizzy got banned (as >it is on his account) took 2 CS clips to take him down, CLIPS NOT >BURSTS, so REMUS, When you can make yourself a setup thats >comparable to those, then ill start listening to you . . . I have >witnesses to my chars taking those hits, Harbinger was the APU >with the fully capped HL that shot me 17 times, and Bloodhawk >was the tank with capped damage CS, all shots hitting while i >stood still, 2 CLIPS to take down a buffed Kami pistol PE . . .
like i said you havnt mastered anything. and i dont think you have beaten me ever, with your pistol pe or tank, and what ever other chars you have.
i wasnt getting personal but you have brought it to a whole new level i started by critisizeing you statement that your hybrid has ppu defence, i wont accept that untill i see it, i dont know wtf you are on atm and personnally i dont care.
Psyco Groupie
06-12-03, 18:17
rofl remus, i bet you pvp in 3rd person you DIRTY tank user
I was planning to lom my APU to hybrid, once he caps (and gets a DS). Gonna shoot for using E-Beam and high slot Holy PPU's.
Originally posted by REMUS
np with that, and the pe i did set up myself with QD's help, hes still not finished, i know the amount of skill you need to cap certain areas and i know that after the monk nerfs hybrid defence isnt even 50% of what is was so yeah i would say you are full of shit on this point, you have 4-5 accounts and you cant master any of them, at least my tank is in the top 5 on pluto none of your accounts are fucking anywhere near the top 10 of any class.
I dont nee to see into the future i know that the set up is good, my point is your hybrid WONT HAVE PPU defence im not personally insulting you although im beginning to think you are over sensitive and slightly stupid.
evedently neither can you.
like i said you havnt mastered anything. and i dont think you have beaten me ever, with your pistol pe or tank, and what ever other chars you have.
i wasnt getting personal but you have brought it to a whole new level i started by critisizeing you statement that your hybrid has ppu defence, i wont accept that untill i see it, i dont know wtf you are on atm and personnally i dont care.
'evedently neither can you.' how the fuck did you work that one out
First of all, read my fucking posts eh ? I said it has near PPU defence, not fcking exactly the same as PPU defence, jesus, Also ive said over and over and fucking over that its 'on paper' that the setups like that and WILL require testing, fucking hell its hard getting stuff thru that skull of yours.
When _cRazy_ did that tourney thing, did I not beat you there ? or have you seemed to forget that, or did you not caunt that cause you were bitching my PE was using drugs, Also consider that id only had a proper combat PE for a few days then, Marneus and me had a dead heat draw where we killed eachother. Yes I consider you a good tank, I consider the likes or smokey, ][)ank, roro, raykor and a few other better than you, how many kami PE's can you mention that could beat tanks up apart from a select few that are imo shit hot with their class, yes i have multiple chars, dont fucking use that against me cause thats no argument, I havent fought vet, dont want to, dont particularly like fighting people so the winner can sit there and ''bask in his glory'' and altho I havent fought rade much since his 'i can beat anyone' thing, I lost the fights then, but i'd had a PE for not even 2 days and wasnt even capped dex, weve fought a few times, ive beaten him, hes beaten me. My tank, havent really played it much, yknow why ? Cause their a damn boring class next to PE's, my PPU ive been on alot because this IS monkacron were playing and a PPUs more valuable than a tank, PE or spy any day of the week. I may not be like carinth, pete the psi, polarity, but for christs sake, get someone who's never played a monk before, level him upto 95 PSI in 2 days, lom over to PPU and take him to a OP war, I lived thru my first 6 OP wars without dieing, one of them i had about 10 people chase me half a zone to the GR when I was last man standing, Im not saying im the best, I dont have to feel like im the best, I know that im good whatever the class, its called being flexable, im effective on _any_ class you give me, yet your a 1 char man and thats all youll ever be unless you put the time and effort into learning to fight with other classes and setup other classes as I have. Like I said, I dont have to sit here and say ''im one of the best'' to fucking reassure myself, you however just did that and im sure your still telling yourself that.
Thats a setup I made in 10-15 mins while talkin to SD over MSN, In that time i also knocked up 4 or 5 others, I HAVE said it could need some tweaking, I HAVE said it is a 'approximation' which is why I put blessed down instead of holy as it isnt gonna cap holy, I HAVE said that a fucking shelter isnt what keeps a PPU Alive, its its heal, however it doesent look like you knew that as you were so fucking hell bent on fucking nit picking the setup just to slam me down, the SHELTER MEANS DICK NEXT TO THE RATE AT WHICH A HEAL HEALS, if the shelters strong enough to get CS damage down to say 20, and that chars heals doing say 20 a tick (my capped holy heal does 34 a tick) Then thats fucking good enough for me, because you, in all your uber tanky gloriness will not be able to kill the fucker, and you aint gonna like that are you.
Theres people that stay quiet about whatever char they play etc, theirs people that choose to play the 1 char and theres people that chose to play all chars. and if you look through the boards its those that play the 1 char that always seem to come up with some of the most crackpot ideas about 'balance' or have the biggest fucking ego's present. Theres also those that play 1 char, and want everything around them nerfed to shit, while there char remains untouched, yea shows dedication for their chosen class but that aint balancing, and it aint good for the game if these people get lsitened to, cause they just want their char to be on top...
If you want some respect, drop the fucking attitude towards me, you sitting there saying ''im the best at this and that'' doesent win anything good IMO, I have NEVER said im THE BEST, IM A FUCKING UBER GOD THAT YOU MUST ALL SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO, I OWN YOU ! I feel that im good, better than alot and it, but not the best.
KRIMINAL99
06-12-03, 18:35
Let me think about his damage for a second....
He has about the same base damage as other classes even IF he doesnt cap rate of fire and then he can dam boost on top of that.
I dunno if this is balanced... maybe a bit overpowered.
Hybrids now are beatable. Its not like before were they are invincible. I think right now is the way monks should be.
Psyco Groupie
06-12-03, 18:41
fenyx where you dl skill manager with resist / health poin thing ?!
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
fenyx where you dl skill manager with resist / health poin thing ?!
-=BlaseHase=- has it in his forum sig, do a name search for him.
Like I said Krim, on that pic ive put it down as using blessed shelter instead of a hol shelter, Its probably gonna be using holy shelter, but as its not gonna be anywhere near capping hily I put it down as blessed as a estimation of what the defence would be like with a weak holy. If I put holy onto that char according to that skill manager it would take 5.6% - 2.9% damage from energy, but thats with a capped self cast holy shelter . . .
Mumblyfish
06-12-03, 18:50
You know, at first I was pissed off that hybrids were popping up everywhere. On the patch of the hybrid nerf, I LoMed straight from APU just to prove that they were still viable, and people who went pure in a pissy fit weren't thinking straight. I was practically the only hybrid on the server, which was nice. So of course I kind of felt that that my territory was being trod on when hybrids started popping up left, right and centre.
But now I like it. Hybrids are quite possibly the most balanced class in the game. They have slightly lower defense than a PE, the lowest damage output in the game, but in their favour they have no aiming reticle, and if PPUs go bye-bye, they'll be handy in team situations.
If all monks went hybrid, I'm sure Neocron would be a very happy place.
KRIMINAL99
06-12-03, 18:56
hmm 320 hp let me think
Ok thats not as bad thats about 1 less avg HL bolt than my tank takes and they are much more weak to pierce so maybe this is somewhat balanced.
They can heal themselves pretty damn fast which is a big deal in neocron... and they are probably about the same as PE's in offense except that this guy can prolly run cast damboost and doesn't have to aim to shoot...
they have a 80% stun para beam.. :( I dunno this is a tough call as to weather its balanced or not. Maybe they are just right...
The main thing is they really don't have enough hp to give them time to stop and heal themselves to full every few seconds like a PPU does so...
Guess we will see what happens soon.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
hmm 320 hp let me think
Ok thats not as bad thats about 1 less avg HL bolt than my tank takes and they are much more weak to pierce so maybe this is somewhat balanced. I could go for base 0 ath, and use those points for bodyhealth, not sure what a runspeed of that agil with like 15 ath would be like tho, should be pretty fking fast tho casue of the excessive agil
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
'evedently neither can you.' how the fuck did you work that one out
First of all, read my fucking posts eh ? I said it has near PPU defence, not fcking exactly the same as PPU defence, jesus, Also ive said over and over and fucking over that its 'on paper' that the setups like that and WILL require testing, fucking hell its hard getting stuff thru that skull of yours.
When _cRazy_ did that tourney thing, did I not beat you there ? or have you seemed to forget that, or did you not caunt that cause you were bitching my PE was using drugs, Also consider that id only had a proper combat PE for a few days then, Marneus and me had a dead heat draw where we killed eachother. Yes I consider you a good tank, I consider the likes or smokey, ][)ank, roro, raykor and a few other better than you, how many kami PE's can you mention that could beat tanks up apart from a select few that are imo shit hot with their class, yes i have multiple chars, dont fucking use that against me cause thats no argument, I havent fought vet, dont want to, dont particularly like fighting people so the winner can sit there and ''bask in his glory'' and altho I havent fought rade much since his 'i can beat anyone' thing, I lost the fights then, but i'd had a PE for not even 2 days and wasnt even capped dex, weve fought a few times, ive beaten him, hes beaten me. My tank, havent really played it much, yknow why ? Cause their a damn boring class next to PE's, my PPU ive been on alot because this IS monkacron were playing and a PPUs more valuable than a tank, PE or spy any day of the week. I may not be like carinth, pete the psi, polarity, but for christs sake, get someone who's never played a monk before, level him upto 95 PSI in 2 days, lom over to PPU and take him to a OP war, I lived thru my first 6 OP wars without dieing, one of them i had about 10 people chase me half a zone to the GR when I was last man standing, Im not saying im the best, I dont have to feel like im the best, I know that im good whatever the class, its called being flexable, im effective on _any_ class you give me, yet your a 1 char man and thats all youll ever be unless you put the time and effort into learning to fight with other classes and setup other classes as I have. Like I said, I dont have to sit here and say ''im one of the best'' to fucking reassure myself, you however just did that and im sure your still telling yourself that.
Thats a setup I made in 10-15 mins while talkin to SD over MSN, In that time i also knocked up 4 or 5 others, I HAVE said it could need some tweaking, I HAVE said it is a 'approximation' which is why I put blessed down instead of holy as it isnt gonna cap holy, I HAVE said that a fucking shelter isnt what keeps a PPU Alive, its its heal, however it doesent look like you knew that as you were so fucking hell bent on fucking nit picking the setup just to slam me down, the SHELTER MEANS DICK NEXT TO THE RATE AT WHICH A HEAL HEALS, if the shelters strong enough to get CS damage down to say 20, and that chars heals doing say 20 a tick (my capped holy heal does 34 a tick) Then thats fucking good enough for me, because you, in all your uber tanky gloriness will not be able to kill the fucker, and you aint gonna like that are you.
Theres people that stay quiet about whatever char they play etc, theirs people that choose to play the 1 char and theres people that chose to play all chars. and if you look through the boards its those that play the 1 char that always seem to come up with some of the most crackpot ideas about 'balance' or have the biggest fucking ego's present. Theres also those that play 1 char, and want everything around them nerfed to shit, while there char remains untouched, yea shows dedication for their chosen class but that aint balancing, and it aint good for the game if these people get lsitened to, cause they just want their char to be on top...
If you want some respect, drop the fucking attitude towards me, you sitting there saying ''im the best at this and that'' doesent win anything good IMO, I have NEVER said im THE BEST, IM A FUCKING UBER GOD THAT YOU MUST ALL SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO, I OWN YOU ! I feel that im good, better than alot and it, but not the best.
bravo, erm good speach, hmm _crazy_'s tourney in that via rossa lv 3 appt ok yeah u beat me once but then again i didnt loose at all against anyone else the during the entire thing and i cant remember how many times me and u fought 3 or 4, smokey is better than me and roro may be better than me, dank and raycor sure as hell arnt :wtf:
i also have 3 accounts
tank
pe
spy
so im not a 1 char man am i? i admit ive gotten worse by playing all 3 accounts but ive dumped my spy one now and im finishing capping my pe.
and a ppu without a shelter getting shot by a cs wont live if he has a holy heal on, its the combination of the two that makes a ppu so powerful not one or the other.
for instance i fought kreal when he wasnt using heal with his pistol ppu i won with 300+ hp but when he used heal i lost. i think he would die alot quicker if he was only using holy heal.
I dont need respect and i hve never tried to gain respect from people i hardly know you either like me or you dont, i dont need to strut around saying blah blah im the best im uber wtf i dont care, i dont pk i pvp i dont enforce my skill upon other people unless the situation arises where it is needed.
I play all chars appart from melee pe and ppu. on various servers i have yet to cap a psi tho and i dont intend on doing so.
im arogant ill admitt, i wont use a herc becuase i belive it an unfair advantage agaist people who cannot get one, i wont play a monk or a rog/pistol pe on pluto becuase i belive that a tank and pain easer pe requires more skill to use.
so im an arogant princiblistic git, i know that and you should too you have known me long enough fenyx :D
im sorry for being an ass before, i still think there is no way you can get close to ppu defence with a capped holy halo using hybrid but i guess you can prove me wrong then ^_^
KRIMINAL99
06-12-03, 19:16
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
I could go for base 0 ath, and use those points for bodyhealth, not sure what a runspeed of that agil with like 15 ath would be like tho, should be pretty fking fast tho casue of the excessive agil
Well thannatos once said that with just one stat it would take about 400 to cap run speed... From my estimation that would put you at about half the points needed to cap runspeed.... Don't know if that means half capped runspeed though I doubt it.
Raising hp in this setup would drastically increase its effectiveness tho so that is a tough call.
In fact you would have better defense than many tanks all the way around with this setup if you could manage even just 400 hp...
I hate to be a dick but this setup is looking really overpowered since you put it that way. Even with that runspeed youd prolly run faster than a tank with a weapon out...
Take the argument to PMs or put each other on ignore. If this keeps up I will close the thread.
N
VVerevvolf
06-12-03, 19:50
Just as a fact, it is possible to have an apu kami+DS hybrid who takes about 20 damage each capped HL he gets shot with when prepared. His damage output is about 450% on a stat-capped HL.
Mumblyfish
06-12-03, 20:10
Bullshit.
some of us are going to make a hybrid because playing a straight APU is BORING!! it was fun for a while, but there is no way it will be able to keep your attention for more than a couple months. Its like asking a PE with an SH, "Aren't you screwing your STR and CON up by doing that?" Yeah, he may be, but at 15 billion yards from his target, who needs str and con? Who cares if a hybrid has PPU-like defence or APU's strong abilities? They will not be as effective in some ways, but more so in others. Bottom line, I wanna make a hybrid because it would be fun. What ever happened to playing to have fun?
Oh right..... We play to "win"... ops.... caps..... MC5 parts.......
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
theres a few on uranus but they mostly get outdamaged by apus and are leveling real slow, i belive the apu kami hybrid is wot everyone is aiming for, so they can hunt alone or something ... I cant see the point reallythey arent gonna be good enough to solo mc5 or anything and an apu can solo everything else
heh oh well ;P
My hybrid isn't a kami hybrid, yet a tank/pe/spy/apu has no chance of killing me alone.
Hybrids aren't dead and by all means you do not need an apu kami.
As for the point...I can solo any class in the game and outheal whatever weapon they try to throw at me, and I can destroy mobs faster then any other class can. Don't believe me? Try me...sure an apu will outdamage me and beat up a grim chaser maybe 30 seconds faster...but I can stand right in front of it and sex it while im killing it. Thats the difference.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Bullshit.
come and duell freeejumper or me .
.cy
Shadow Dancer
06-12-03, 22:22
Originally posted by VVerevvolf
Just as a fact, it is possible to have an apu kami+DS hybrid who takes about 20 damage each capped HL he gets shot with when prepared.
I find that extremely hard to believe. I can do 30 on a high random damage shot to some ppus, and you exact me to believe hybrids with KAMI can take 20?
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
hmm 320 hp let me think
Ok thats not as bad thats about 1 less avg HL bolt than my tank takes and they are much more weak to pierce so maybe this is somewhat balanced.
They can heal themselves pretty damn fast which is a big deal in neocron... and they are probably about the same as PE's in offense except that this guy can prolly run cast damboost and doesn't have to aim to shoot...
they have a 80% stun para beam.. :( I dunno this is a tough call as to weather its balanced or not. Maybe they are just right...
The main thing is they really don't have enough hp to give them time to stop and heal themselves to full every few seconds like a PPU does so...
Guess we will see what happens soon.
Yes hybrids are the first monks who actually have piercing as a real weakness. :p
Anyways, i'm a hybrid and i've got alot to say on the matter. :p
First of all I still believe hybrids are broken. I still think some hybrids have overpowered defense. And I STILL think that they should be restricted from using holy shelter. I wish a coder or dev would comment and say whether or not that's possible. Just don't let them use holy buffs ffs. At least imo.
Anyways, this hybrid is still way more balanced than the previous hybrids. As a matter of fact, I think this hybrid is possibly the most balanced hybrid so far, although they still need tweaks.
For those who say hybrids are useless in op wars, sorry that's crap. That's because you're still comparing them only to apu/ppus instead of seeing them as another class. If you think their useless, then you must think pes/tanks/spies are useless as well. My hybrid can damage boost(very high damage percent), can heal other teammates well, can debuff, can ressurect, and a few other things. Please how is that useless in an op war?
Anyways it's sad that a hybrid needs kami or DS to be viable. I don't think it's fair to leave it that way and tone down defense power of hybrids. Either leave it the way it is, or tone down their defense but reduce the hybrid penalty and make non ds non kami hybrids viable.
I really like my hybrid so far. VERY independent, unlike my apu.
The only thing I don't like is that you basically need 3-5 slots on most of your spells. That is so lame. :rolleyes:
More thoughts later............... I'm gonna go upgrade my setup. :p
VVerevvolf
06-12-03, 22:37
I couldn't believe it at first either, but then I saw Freeejumper in action :eek: 8|
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
come again ?
This is no drugs, Spy3/Melee3/Heat3/HolyDef/BlessedShelt but can use holy shelt
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/test/uploads/DSKami.JPG
Ive put it down as blessed as im not 100% sure what damage% it would get on holy shelt etc, the ROF probably wouldnt be capped but it should cap holy halo. As you can see, it aint gonna be takin that much damage, probably a nightmare to play like the old hybrids as youve only got a 10 space QB, but im sure its managable :)
So REMUS what you gonna say about that one ? Yes its 'on paper' but thats near to PPU resists, if their careful with either a holy heal if its decent enough or just blessed, its still gonna be rock solid for 1v1 and probably pretty good for multiple opponents, the setup that shad's got off me is slightly different, does not use a DS and has a slightly different setup
gat/PE/Lib's gonna hurt if you aint careful and cant strafe properly, but hell, they hurt as it is :p
[Edit] The PSIs etup could do with some tweaking, atm its set for holy buffs, lvl 3 buffs, holy halo. the whole setup could be 'tweaked' tbh I only made it in about 10-15 mins . . .
[Edit2] LOL just noticed 1 'mistake' that setups got the wrong eye in, should be SCE1, not gonna make that much difference tho :p
that setup is absolutely horrid. Yes, it would be nice to use a PP resist chip in the head of a hybrid, but Im afraid it is a bad choice when y ou consider the HUGE boost in dmg on all of your spells when you use a exp psi controller 3. The only good things with that setup are the resists. the rest just shows a complete lack of knowledge of the apu/ppu penalty, and how to set up a hybrid.
Of course, you are right, there really isnt any way to actually know how much dmg you will get on anything, but I can tell you now that your dmg on a holy shelter would be no more than 280%.
Basically, that setup has 77.78% ppu damage as compared to my setup, abd 96% apu dmg... my setup leaves me at about 66% as powerful as a capped pure in both... I do have to say that 150 apu has to be very nice on the rof
oh, and there is no reason to use blessed shelt if you can use holy... holy will always absorb more
Mumblyfish
06-12-03, 23:00
I agree with Divide. Sure, a PP resistor finishes off your resists so it's all nice and spangly... but PSI Power is your biggest concern. A few extra % in shelt/def > a few more points in resist.
fenix with all due respect a hybrid's or PPU's 'defenses' lies mostly in his shelter/deflector and heal, a good con setup is a must but your Spells are your main concern, it also lies a great deal in skill too:p
oh yeah and psi pool too (what goods a capped holy heal if you got 5 hps left and no psi pool?)
I think hybrids are still viable in a 1on1, or even against a few people, just not in any sort of op war(even before they nerfed hybrids, i was feeling not as useful as a pure apu or pure ppu in op action)
plus you don't get to look like a jawa like all the cool pures =0
Shadow Dancer
06-12-03, 23:27
There's potential for overpowered hybrids to make a comeback. We'll just hafta see.
Hybrids have always been the best class in duels mostly due to heals nothings changed there...
A hybrid is probably most powerful class at the moment untill a pure monk is thrown into the fight.
Hybrids own without pures
Hybrids suck when pures are about...
Just my opinion anyway
SD has a dim on pluto?
and with 125 ppu you would get very shitty damage % on shelter
like VERY shitty.
so much to say that you might getter a better shelter from a ppu taking the 50% hit in effectiveness but not sure on the exact numbers actually. and ohnos holy energy halo hah.
I done the CON, only hybrid was the old style 113/116 or somethin like that. Shad's working on the PSI setup to kinda find that sweet spot between shelters and holy halo. like i said it needs tweaks :p
KRIMINAL99
07-12-03, 00:44
Originally posted by VVerevvolf
Just as a fact, it is possible to have an apu kami+DS hybrid who takes about 20 damage each capped HL he gets shot with when prepared. His damage output is about 450% on a stat-capped HL.
Maybe 20 damage once or twice.... The minimum avg dam from a capped HL is 30, and thats with 200 nrg armour and a capped holy shelter. If you see someone taking less than that avg then they are probably hacking.
I just want to say though that the old hybrids were 2X more powerful than any other class, more than that if you counted their rezz and other abilities....
This class if he can get much more hp than he has now looks to be something like 1.5 times more powerful.. I'll chill out and at least see if they cause much of a problem b4 i go nerf crazy but...
Basically its already better than a tank in every possible way, next is PE... its somewhat close but he can runcast dam boost and can freeze 80% and heal faster and rezz... but has slightly lower defense b4 healing. Basically the deal with these classes is if its overpowered on paper it is in the game to, its just not made obvious until someone with really good fps skill plays them and kills like 20 ppl. Their skill lvl might be needed to allow them to take full advantage of the class where as low skill ppl might not be able to but that doesn't change the fact that the class is overpowered.
done the CON, only hybrid was the old style 113/116 or somethin like that. Shad's working on the PSI setup to kinda find that sweet spot between shelters and holy halo. like i said it needs tweaks
speaking as a hybrid... the psi numbers you got there are quite accurate actually *hint* *hint*
and your resists need rework :P
ghandisfury
07-12-03, 03:38
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Maybe 20 damage once or twice.... The minimum avg dam from a capped HL is 30, and thats with 200 nrg armour and a capped holy shelter. If you see someone taking less than that avg then they are probably hacking.
Then I must be hacking....cause I take around 6-10 first hit.
kthxby:p
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