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View Full Version : BRAINPORT Idea: new LE & PK rules



MegaCorp
06-12-03, 00:47
Here are some LE/PKing ideas, for whatever they are worth:

Idea #1) Clans must declare themselves to be PvP oriented or non-PvP oriented, and there is game code to support that choice. PvP clans can hack and hold Ops; non-PvP clans can not. LE users can join non-PvP clans, but can not join PvP clans. This mechanism provides the "community experience" that many gamers seek but which they could not previously have if they used an LE. An example of this new type of clan would be one made up of tradeskillers who have no interest in PvP or Op wars.

Idea #2) There is rampant "griefing" because people are bored or are simply bad by nature and enjoy causing trouble for others. Given the post-apocalyptic backstory for the game, this is not necessarilly "wrong". What is missing, though, is retribution / punishment. In real life such killers, if/when caught, would be killed outright, sentenced to death, or imprisoned for a long time to get them out of circulation. What can be done in Neocron?

Since death is only temporary in Neocron, let us have the "effective results" of imprisonment, rather than actual confinement:

o A soul light penalty is gained when you kill another player character that is more than nnn levels lower than your own, regardless of your faction or the faction of the victim; this does not apply in war zones. All other existing methods of getting a soul light penalty still apply as well.

o When a character has soul light less than -xxx they are visibly labeled as an "Outlaw"; if the soul light becomes more positive than -xxx then the label is removed.

o If an "Outlaw" character is killed ANYWHERE by another player character (even in a war zone), that character dies and becomes visibly relabeled as an "Outcast". There is no soul light penalty for killing an Outlaw.

o Being an Outcast has the following effects: the character is removed from whatever clan they were in, the character is prevented from [re]joining a clan until the Outcast label is removed, and the character is unable to harm other players or be harmed by other players (as per wearing an LE) until the Outcast label is removed. Note that the character CAN continue to hunt to improve soul light, etc.

o The Outcast label is removed when a week of real time (not game time) elapses. Alternatively, it could be removed when soul light becomes sufficiently positive; or the time interval could be some number of days, such as 3 or 5.

What does this accomplish? It allows a modest amount of PKing without major penalty ... but if soul light reaches -xxx then the major penalty occurs. So griefers can indulge themselves a little bit but not excessively and it allows roleplaying "bad guys" to do bad things in the game but not excessively. It makes Outlaws (hardcore griefers) more readilly identifyable and puts them at risk. It allows hero types to hunt down an Outlaw and clobber that PKer without themselves risking becoming outlaws due to loss of soul light. It provides a means of rendering a problem player/character harmless for an extended period of time, and provides a satisfying accomplishment for people who go to the trouble to be heroes: its payback time - KABLAM!!!

A concerted effort by one or more clans could potentially do periodic sweeps of cities and hunting areas, wiping out Outlaws, to keep those places "safe" for extended periods of time. CityTerms could have a new section that lists known Outlaws with missions that offer cash rewards as bounties. Perhaps there is also an XP gain for the hero based on the level of the defeated PKer.

You want to be a badass crazed killer? You still can be, but no longer without penalty and to the total frustration of others.

Edit: the implementation should be such that people who kill enemy faction members would not be affected by this at all unless it was griefing oriented, i.e. very high levels killing very low levels (relatively speaking). The idea is not to constrain honest faction fighting, but rather to penalize griefers who become totally abussive to the community as a whole.

Idea #3) Rework the types of zones that can be found in the game to be something like this:

o war zones - as they are now

o danger zones - what we have a lot of now which is hunting areas where unrestricted PKing can occur, for example all of Pepper Park / Aggie Cellars / level 4+ basements, most of the outside lands

o protected hunting zones - these are new, and PKing is not permitted, these would be noob-friendly areas such as all level 1 thru 3 sewers.

o safe zones - no fighting of any kind is permitted, such as the existing Plaza and Viarosso areas


Comments? Suggestions for changes or alternatives?


Spook

shodanjr_gr
06-12-03, 01:20
/me likes

5 stars!!!

<edit> ARGG!!!! FORGOT TEH STARS!!!!

ezza
06-12-03, 01:27
so let me get this streight you get no drawback for killing a outlaw yet as usual the outlaw themselves get shafted.

and we need less safe zones not more.


You want to be a badass crazed killer? You still can be, but no longer without penalty and to the total frustration of others

umm you cant be a crazed killer, let me see i kill a shit load of people go red Sl, get killed belt gets hacked i lose my rares and other items.

yeah sure no penalty:wtf:

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 01:31
Ezza, i think you miss my point/goal. My suggestion addresses those PKers who do it TOO DAMN MUCH, to the point of driving people away from the game, the PKers that are just too abuse and NEED to be throttled back. Those are the people who get nailed by this, and i think rightfully so. People who PK and are reasonable about it won't be affected at all.

Spook

ezza
06-12-03, 01:33
Originally posted by MegaCorp
Ezza, i think you miss my point/goal. My suggestion addresses those PKers who do it TOO DAMN MUCH, to the point of driving people away from the game, the PKers that are just too abuse and NEED to be throttled back. Those are the people who get nailed by this, and i think rightfully so. Villians who PK and are reasonable about it won't be affected.

Spook

the people who PK to much are gone, the ones that are here now are nothing compared to the pkers in the past, ididnt miss the point i saw another post that wanted to fuck over Pkers thats all

Psycho Killa
06-12-03, 01:33
You do realize your encouraged to kill faction enemies in this game.....

There is no rampant griefing going on what are you talking about theres hardly any pkers left in this game at all.

If you think theres griefers now you would not have lasted 2 minutes at the beggining of retail.

This game punishes negative soullight people enough (People who kill non enemies) And i dont think you should even receive a penalty for killin an enemy faction member unless there low level in sewers or aggy pits.

And i thought id throw this quote in from Mjs


Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
DoY will get us closer to the original vision. We've found a way to inject even more RP into the game by reducing safe zones and the general care-bear attitude at the same time.


Are you talking about people who kill faction enemies to much or people who pk who there not suppose to too much?

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 01:35
They may be gone NOW, but we are hoping for lots more new players right? And a meaningful percentage of the new ones will be jerks who PK rampantly and drive others away ... so lets put in some rules that will help control the situation, eh?

And by the way, i started Spook with retail and have been here the entire time. I am looking to the future here. Can you suggest ways to improve my idea? Or propose an alternative?

Spook

Psycho Killa
06-12-03, 01:37
Theres nothing to control. This game is not all about pvp but it is geared towards it.

Theres nothing that needs to be curbed except the abuse of low level players. If they cant handled being killed everyonce in a while they are playing the wrong game and should rightfully quit.

Again are you talking about people who kill faction enemies???



An alternative to #1 is having community apartments where someone can buy it and has control over who can access it and who can acces cabinets....

Theres no reason for them to have a whole clan. All it will add is ranks and clan chat. You can always use buddy chat and you have no reason for any other features in a clan

ezza
06-12-03, 01:38
its a PvP based game MJS has said so himself.

there are messures to stop people Pking everyone its called SL lose when you kill a allied neutral faction member

wtf you want people to lose SL when they kill enemy

if shit like this got brough into the game then this game is nolonger the game i love playing

Psycho Killa
06-12-03, 01:48
I have an alternative idea.

Form a clan that hunts down rampant pkers. Find them. Kill them. Have fun doing it. There that solves the problem without pissing anyone off and u can have fun doing it at the same time.

Why do people want game mechanics enforced upon us. Its like taking away freedoms in the real world. We should be free from game mechanics to do what we want in this game and only suffer the consequences by other members of the community.

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 01:48
Geez ... you guys are either missing my point or you support rampant PKing that is bad enough to drive customers away; giving you the benefit of the doubt i will assume i have not been clear.

My idea supports PKing, but what i proposed defines a "high water mark", where if you go beyond it you have made it clear that you are an abussive player, who is hurting the player community and potentially driving customers away. And if that happens, you can be punished, just like in real life. Note that exactly how much is abusive and causes that mark to be reached has not been defined ... but i have introduced the concept that it SHOULD exist. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?!?

Oh, and i dont classify killing lots of enemy factions members as abussive griefing ... it IS griefing and abussive if you have a very high level character repeatedly killing very low levels no matter what factions are involved. The implementation would take that into account.

Spook

Psyco Groupie
06-12-03, 01:52
cool ideas apart form the outcast one, people might get kicked outa their clan for a week by accident .. killing npcs at op war or somat - alos leader of clan could posibly get kicked!

like the outlaw part 100 %

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 01:54
I disagree Psycho Killa, that does not solve anything. They just come back for more, its a challenge for them with no penalty. My way there IS a penalty ... it spoils their fun for quite a while. And again, if implemented correctly it only affects the bad players we probably dont want in the game anyway, but will give us hell if we dont control. This problem was a major complaint since retail. It has died down recently, yes, but if DOY rejuvenates the game it will reappear again ... and none of the current penalties will do squat to control that.

Spook

Psycho Killa
06-12-03, 01:54
Repeatedly killing noobs is lame i agree...

Theres already game mechanics to prevent noobs from being killed its called a law enforcer.




If you have an anti pk clan then yes there will be a penalty for killing noobs... its living in fear of being slauthered anywhere they go by your clan.

If you form your own clan you can offer to protect noobs when leveling.

What makes the noobs quit? Getting killed all the time...

Well then apply the same logic to the noob killers. If you kill them enough times for killing noobs then theyre gonna either stop or quit.

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 02:05
Psycho Killa, okay, i believe i understand your point of view now. I do not happen to agree with you, and believe that the current rules and methods are variously ineffective to useless, and do not really address the abussive pker issue. Hopefully my suggestions will spur other ideas that may result in something better being implemented in the future.

Spook

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 02:17
It just dawned on me that maybe the sticking point here is Soul Light, and the fact that if enough penalties can be gotten by non-griefing means, you could become an Outlaw and not have done anything abussive per se.

Either that can be worked out, or maybe we define a new thing called "Lawful Conduct": it starts positive and with penalties occurring can go down. Once it reaches zero you become an Outlaw.

What can cause you to acquire "Lawful Conduct" penalties? Killing someone many levels lower than you are, for a start, regardless of faction; i.e. griefing.

Doing missions slowly resets things, just as it does Soul Light; perhaps PKing "valid" targets does the same thing.

Spook

Shadow Dancer
06-12-03, 02:48
I haven't seen a true "KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT RED SL BABY" pker in ages.

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 02:57
Me neither, to be honest. But mark my words, they'll be back ... if Neocron makes a comeback.

Spook

ezza
06-12-03, 02:57
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I haven't seen a true "KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT RED SL BABY" pker in ages.

cos they dont exist anymore

megacorp, they wont come back cos they cant kill all like they used to because the current system drove them away, the current pkers are people who have adapted to the way the game is now

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 03:00
With regard to #1 ...

I believe letting LEs into a clan is vitally important. Giving them access to a common room, doesnt address the whole issue. The key issue is a sense of community, belonging to a particular group, and being able to talk with them and interact with them. The whole social thing.

If it wasnt important we would not have *Clans*. If the buddy list solved the problem we would not have Clan Chat. Denying LE people that kind of social interaction is shooting yourself in the foot customer wise. KK has GOT to remove the frustrations and limitations imposed on noob customers and do everything possible to draw them into the game and KEEP them in the game. Imposing restrictions on noobs still too intimidated or frightened to take out their LE accomplishes neither of those.

Spook

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 03:01
Ezza,

Fair enough, you could be right.

Spook

MegaCorp
06-12-03, 03:15
About #3 ...

If we dont allow LEs into clans, then we need a couple safe hunting zones outside of MC5 where clanned noobs who *did* take out their LEs can retreat to and hunt in safety until they are able to come to grips with the realities of PKing. Again, I believe KK needs to bend over backwards and do anything reasonable with regard to ensuring customer retention in the early stages of game play. To my mind having safe, very low level, hunting zones in their starting city is one of those.

Spook

Krll
06-12-03, 21:56
I like the idea, but I seem to remember a post from MJS a few months ago, and he said that there are no plans to include LE clans. :(

Use the edit function by the way, 'cos the moderators don't like people posting back to back. :)

-Krll

KRIMINAL99
07-12-03, 06:07
dumb idea

MegaCorp
07-12-03, 22:29
KRIMINAL99,

I have respect for the others who posted here, because they took the time and went to some effort to explain their own views, whether they agreed with me or not. Whereas a derogatory shot such as yours serves no purpose other than to reflect poorly on its own author; it certainly adds no useful value to the discussion.

Spook