View Full Version : Clarification on Kami Chips
Ive heard lots of little ideas about these chips, primarily that the huge -resists are only supposed to effect your armor. Can I please get an official word on this? Also, if this idea is in fact true, when will we see a patch to fix the chips so they only effect your armor?
Mumblyfish
04-12-03, 11:41
They don't affect JUST your armour. You heard wrong. Rather, they affect your TOTAL ARMOUR RESIST. That is (Armour Resists)+(0.7*Body Resists). Correct me if I have the formula wrong.
Yeah you have the formula wrong. :p
Check http://neocron.ems.ru/resist.html for a chart on how your resists are converted into armor. The Kami chips apply a negative after this conversion has been made. Which makes perfect sense IMO.
As scikar says it's done at the last stage. Callash confirmed this somewhere.
Mumblyfish
04-12-03, 11:53
Well, I got the gist of it right. Right? ...Right..?
Anyway, hope you like wrestling with numbers. It's the only way you're going to get a decent CON setup out of one of these...
I still would like an official word on these chips. Not that I dont trust you Mumbly, its just that an overwhelming amount of people have said that the chips were supposed to effect only your armor-- such an overwhelming amount of players, and skilled/knowledgable players at that, that I really really want an official word.
yeah wun, apparently at about 5am I forget how to read, and actually read the part where it says in big text "STEEL SKIN"
steel skin = the fact that runner only takes 1/3 of dmg a mob takes of the same weapon.. even without armor on...
well, with some quick number crunching, most likely it is wrong, but my hybrid with an apu kami, SHOULD technically have 92 energy resist (this is after the -200) and a holy shelter at 380% self cast without ppu 1, 420% with-- and he takes about 60 from a hl with the 2 diff shelters. Does anyone else see a small problem here? a PE with a shelter with dmg less than 400%, and energy resist totaling somewhere around 110-120 with armor/resists will take about the same amount of dmg.
OK I can't find a quote which backs me up on this, all I could find was Callash confirming they remove from armor, instead of only from resists. But, ask Stig how much damage he took on his tank from CS, even with his high CON resists. ;)
Originally posted by Divide
well, with some quick number crunching, most likely it is wrong, but my hybrid with an apu kami, SHOULD technically have 92 energy resist (this is after the -200) and a holy shelter at 380% self cast without ppu 1, 420% with-- and he takes about 60 from a hl with the 2 diff shelters. Does anyone else see a small problem here? a PE with a shelter with dmg less than 400%, and energy resist totaling somewhere around 110-120 with armor/resists will take about the same amount of dmg. *Slaps Divide around a bit with a wet trout*
Thou shallt not test thy resists with HL! It's damage is far too random.
Mumblyfish
04-12-03, 12:22
Holy Shelter at 380%? You can't have much APU at all. And I mean AT ALL.
as i recall myself and rizzy both took 240 dmg per blast with the tank kami in, that was from a pure energy CS wearing full dura/pa.
also my con setup has 114 in energy resist so the dmg to a tank makes the kami completely useless for pvp imo.
OMG! I just got enlightement. I just realised what is this "Uber" tank CON setup people talk about .. oh how stupid I was. Oh boy, someone gotta do some SERIOUS lommage :D
Originally posted by Divide
Does anyone else see a small problem here? a PE with a shelter with dmg less than 400%, and energy resist totaling somewhere around 110-120 with armor/resists will take about the same amount of dmg.
yes i see the problem, PEs are overpowred......
Shadow Dancer
04-12-03, 20:05
lol extract
Divide trust me, i've experiment with kami several times. Ask Fenix as well, it takes away the TOTAL resist.
QuantumDelta
04-12-03, 20:08
I don't have complete evidence, as most of my knowledge about kami's is second hand however from what I have seen, checked myself AND been told, I would be more likely to say it takes from total resists at the end of the line...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
lol extract
Divide trust me, i've experiment with kami several times. Ask Fenix as well, it takes away the TOTAL resist.
you laugh....but its the truth....especially with new PA....I dont want to start a new topic in a thread with different topic...but dude imagine a first love weilding PE with 222RoF and capped dmg(with RC3 of course) stealth 2 and various ppu buffs self cast of course.....albiet im talking about a druggie PE...but dude its been tried and tested on my PE and without a doubt its some serious shit.....its almost scary oh and thanks to drugging like the wind im fast as shit too.....A pe should never even come close to touching a first love let alone almost fully capping it.....and as far as the whole kami thing I wouldnt know i havent even seen a damn kami mob yet.........and considering how much I actually do play thats quite sad really......
ghandisfury
04-12-03, 21:16
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Holy Shelter at 380%? You can't have much APU at all. And I mean AT ALL.
I had 368% without PA:p ....still took 100 damage from HL.
Shadow Dancer
04-12-03, 21:43
That's because HL is overpowered.
Extract, I think the only thing that overpowers PEs is stealth.
Q`alooaith
04-12-03, 22:28
and the only thing that overpower's PPU's is holy heal...
or is it rezz... holy shelter's not to shabby either...
I've not played in a while but every class has that "overpowered" weapon or tool...
BTT, didn't kami's finish, or do they still spawn.. and the chip is nasty for resist's, my APU get near floored by pepper sewer's, before the chip was in he'd have no trouble... great feeling though to get the best out of my spell's before capping..
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
lol extract
Divide trust me, i've experiment with kami several times. Ask Fenix as well, it takes away the TOTAL resist.
yes SD, and everyone else on this thread, I am aware that currently, the Kami effects both your armor and natural resists, the question isnt does it effect both, the question is did kk mean for it to effect both. Oh, and mumblyfish, I get 425% on my HL as well. But you are right, I dont have much apu, or much ppu for that matter, but then again Im a hybrid so why would I pour a bunch of points into a skill that is going to adversely effect the other?
edit: oh, and as far as random dmg hl goes, I tested this for about a good hour... around 60 dmg is the average hl hit. every once in a while, he would get a 100+ off my head.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
That's because HL is overpowered.
sometimes you dont make sence to me, he said jhe took 100 from HL, yet in another thread you seemed to be ok with damage that high:confused:
maybe im just not reading right though
Shadow Dancer
04-12-03, 23:14
Originally posted by Divide
yes SD, and everyone else on this thread, I am aware that currently, the Kami effects both your armor and natural resists, the question isnt does it effect both, the question is did kk mean for it to effect both. Oh,
Yes, I forgot where, but Callash stated this was intentional. If not, it would be too easy to get around the penalties.
As for taking much less damage from HL than anyone else, so? What kind of offense do you have, that's the question. If you cast at 85 rof with 450% HL or something, i'm not gonna exactly run away in terror from you. :p
Originally posted by ezza
sometimes you dont make sence to me, he said jhe took 100 from HL, yet in another thread you seemed to be ok with damage that high:confused:
maybe im just not reading right though
Ghandi was talking about WITH shelter. And yes I am ok with damage that high(non buffed chars I mean).
:angel:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Yes, I forgot where, but Callash stated this was intentional. If not, it would be too easy to get around the penalties.
As for taking much less damage from HL than anyone else, so? What kind of offense do you have, that's the question. If you cast at 85 rof with 450% HL or something, i'm not gonna exactly run away in terror from you. :p
Ghandi was talking about WITH shelter. And yes I am ok with damage that high(non buffed chars I mean).
:angel:
SD: well, you would be more or less walking at a slow pace, and damage boosted-- so you wouldnt exactly run away from me in terror, you would be slowly moving away from me saying "god damn hybrids and para/dboost" Trust me, almost anything I use does great dmg with a dboost paired with it. Average dmg to a dboosted tank is about 80-90, and it seems to increase with the second and third cast, while the next few dmg goes down, but that is because the only area left to dmg is the feet.
The issue is not my apu skills, the issue is the fact that my holy shelter at 380%, and 83 or so energy resist after all of the bonuses/subtractions, and Im taking way too much fucking damage from energy weapons. Hell I only have around 20 pierce, and all flavors of lib do about 20-25 dmg from me per burst... I think its kinda ass backwards if you ask me
I dunno, sounds like you're taking less damage than an APU while still dealing some fair damage. Whereas the old uber hybrids were PPU-biased, I guess the new hybrids are geared a little more towards the APU?
Shadow Dancer
05-12-03, 00:08
Originally posted by Divide
SD: well, you would be more or less walking at a slow pace, and damage boosted-- so you wouldnt exactly run away from me in terror, you would be slowly moving away from me saying "god damn hybrids and para/dboost" Trust me, almost anything I use does great dmg with a dboost paired with it.
First of all, i carry anti shock. Secondly, you cast shelter slow(not capped) and I cast anti shelter fast. I really don't think you would stand a chance unless you can run/cast, even then........ But i'm sure you would be on the floor before i died. : p
You're talking about shock, damage boost, and then pelting me with SLOW rof(even if it does do "ok" damage). Right...your shield would be broken before you start getting your "groove" on. You know how fast you would die after I antibuff? You would drop so freaking fast it's not even funny. ONE leg hit would cripple your legs so easily. Kami-shelter=dead
But then agian other classes can't antibuff :p.
EDIT: Pes i'm sure could take you down quickly as well. Regardless of your defenses, a TL 3 heal and a damage boost do wonders. :p
Actually this reminds me of being ganked at Cycrow by 5 BDs on my APU. The first one to get to me was a hybrid. He hit me with para halo first then starting with holy energy halo. I hit him with some holy lightning, and that was enough to force him to run and heal. I left him with about 20 HP when his mates finally killed me. If it had been 1v1 I would have easily killed him. And I didn't touch my anti shelter. Maybe he just had a crap setup, but if you think about it, you're relying on the shelter when you have a kami chip in, so maybe Shadow is right, anti shelter you, and you'll take more damage than an unbuffed APU.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
First of all, i carry anti shock. Secondly, you cast shelter slow(not capped) and I cast anti shelter fast. I really don't think you would stand a chance unless you can run/cast, even then........ But i'm sure you would be on the floor before i died. : p
You're talking about shock, damage boost, and then pelting me with SLOW rof(even if it does do "ok" damage). Right...your shield would be broken before you start getting your "groove" on. You know how fast you would die after I antibuff? You would drop so freaking fast it's not even funny. ONE leg hit would cripple your legs so easily. Kami-shelter=dead
But then agian other classes can't antibuff :p.
EDIT: Pes i'm sure could take you down quickly as well. Regardless of your defenses, a TL 3 heal and a damage boost do wonders. :p
actually, I neofragged a very good apu last night for an hour or so, seeing how I fared against pure apu's-- it was a fairly even match, but for the first 5 or 6 rounds, he barely scratched me. The antibuff/shield is a nice, and effective tactic, but its simple to start the cast of a shelter before the antibuff casts, and by the time you switch to a hl, and hit me maybe once my shelter is back on, a holy heal at ~400% and Im back at full health before your psi pool is even full again.
Shadow Dancer
05-12-03, 03:57
Originally posted by Divide
actually, I neofragged a very good apu last night for an hour or so, seeing how I fared against pure apu's-- it was a fairly even match, but for the first 5 or 6 rounds, he barely scratched me. The antibuff/shield is a nice, and effective tactic, but its simple to start the cast of a shelter before the antibuff casts, and by the time you switch to a hl, and hit me maybe once my shelter is back on, a holy heal at ~400% and Im back at full health before your psi pool is even full again.
Well then, wouldn't PSI attack 2 absolutely rape a kami hybrid without deflector. So swap antishelter with holy antibuff. :p
Besides that's a duel scenario anyways, I don't put much stock in those. :p
I think my hybrid could take you. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Well then, wouldn't PSI attack 2 absolutely rape a kami hybrid without deflector. So swap antishelter with holy antibuff. :p
Besides that's a duel scenario anyways, I don't put much stock in those. :p
I think my hybrid could take you. :p
psi attack 2 does force damage, not pierce -- I have very high +force, so dont expect that to actually work. Fully buffed, I take about 40 from all ammo variants of a mal, this was tested the other night. healing? I might take like 15-17 dmg. Trust me, psi attack 2 isnt useful on ANYONE, no not even hybrids. Im on Saturn, and Im always up for a fight-- just get on ooc or something, if Im on, Ill reply
Shadow Dancer
05-12-03, 05:11
Originally posted by Divide
psi attack 2 does force damage, not pierce -- I have very high +force, so dont expect that to actually work. Fully buffed, I take about 40 from all ammo variants of a mal, this was tested the other night. healing? I might take like 15-17 dmg. Trust me, psi attack 2 isnt useful on ANYONE, no not even hybrids. Im on Saturn, and Im always up for a fight-- just get on ooc or something, if Im on, Ill reply
That's right, for some reason I thought it did pierce damage.
Oh well. Too bad i'm too lazy to level up on saturn.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
That's right, for some reason I thought it did pierce damage.
Oh well. Too bad i'm too lazy to level up on saturn.
heh, thats the same reason you wont ever see me on another server
Q`alooaith
05-12-03, 15:22
I must dissagree about psi attack 2, you ever seen two APU's fighting, somtime's posion is the weapon of choice but more often than not energy type attack's are used, now when your onto the HL and other rare spell's and the like this is all well and good, but for slightly lower level APU's, the one's that have just got the energy beam, Psi attack 2 is a hard hitting spell.. ..
APU's with kami chip's in fall prey to energy bassed from monk's at a guess, they realy sap your resist's..
SnotNosedBrat
05-12-03, 15:54
capped holy lightning = bye bye hybrid
too bad i need a ppu on my ass to cap it right now :(
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