View Full Version : Thieves, stealing, scamming, fake trades
Original monk
03-12-03, 13:58
Lately on the saturn server there are alot of major scams, people telling they sell a move on or proto and right before you pay or trade the item yumps back (as in it stayed to long in tradewindow) and instead of the owner putting he's move-on back in , they put in a 0/120 berzerk 3 ... luckely not happend to me but i seen it happen 5 times atleast in the past week ...
when the people start complaining about being ripped of, the thieve yust relogs to another char yust like nothing happend ... :/
other story, bit worse:
a very close reallife friend of me was playing on my lan at my home, he was excited cause he found someone that was selling a synaptic accelerater, he's looking for one for a long time now ya see: so he meets the guy (i was sitting next to my mate irl so i could see the whole situation) and they make a deal: 12 mill, a multislotted holy lightning, a mulstislotted rifle, some other rares and some other of that tradejunk, you know ...
He puts all he's gear in and the 12 mill and the guy puts in the chip: my mate checks and presses ok: in he's inventory he found a 0/120 berzerk 3 ....
I dont have to tell you that my mate was shocked 8| and me to ffcourse ... my mate told me he checked the last time that he pressed ok and that it was a SA, i think he got screwed like i told above by the trick that it jumps back and then the scammer switched it quickly ... dont have to tell you that my mate is planning serieusly on quitting ...
NOW: the scammer logged of and we didnt see em again ..
But i did see that guy again the day after: trying to scam other people with the same technique ... i asked em in direct why he did it .. he confessed doing it because my mate supposible killed one of he's alts about a time ago...
I asked him nicely to refund my mate cause scamming someone telling you have a sa and then rip of 12 mill and rares isnt a good way of taking revenge: the scammer told me he would only refund if my mate wrote him an apologymail .... wich i said i tought he wouldnt do to a person that scammed em for 12 mill ...
Then he got aggresive ...
I screenshotted the whole conversation ... the thief admitting and bragging about it etc ...
I warned people on the tradechannel that this guy could be a scammer: i got response from others who reported em also, looks like it didnt had alot of use ...
Now: my question is: does KK likes loosing people due to scammers who make fake trades ? i think not ... but then, does it have any use at all that i send my screenshots to abuse or exploit@ neocron ??
I DONT LIKE SEEING MY FRIEND IN MY OWN HOUSE BEING SCAMMED OF 12 MILL AND MORE
And if this is the new way of getting expensive items then i have no problem in making a new account: with fancy sounding names, powerlevel em a bit so they have a decent rank to trade with and go scamming people 24/24 non stop with 4 diffrent chars .... what i mean is that ya better find some sort of solution for this, or against these kind of dirty people cause otherwise i will start my own scammingoperation, not the nicest thing to do but if thats how business are going lately, then so be it ...
i wanted to make a barterchar, a repperchar and a 115 pokerchar, but that idea can be changed easely to 4 full time scam chars, no-one will ever notice, except when they been scammed off about 40 mill and by that time the char is deleted and allready a new one started .... to continue the job ....
Big clans safe ???? hehe nono, i can easely make a new char and despites any rank i can get a hi clanrank due to lying about who i am and what experiences i "supposibly" have .... then its easy to empty the nice clanmillions .... or the cabinets ....
YES, THIEVES MAKE ME PISSED OFF, and yeah i wont start a scambusiness ffcourse, but this shows you that it is extremely easy for anyone to make a RIPOFFchar, so no-one wonna trade anymore soon...
You can always say: its he's own fault he had to recheck and recheck and recheck again, but when you find the thing you where looking fir after 6 months then that isnt so obvious ... and the thieves seem to know that also ...
I hate it when you loose 12 mill due to a bug, but it doesnt make ya quit, it does make ya quit when you loose 12 mill due to a dirty tard thats to lazy to do a single thing for he's cash ...
yeah sucks but when you read though the other thread where people are saying the knida of stuff they done like this, they seem to have no problem with it so what can you do:(
Original monk
03-12-03, 14:08
indeed ezza, youre right, some people seem proud of it, wich is a shame. For example this week ive seen a well know person on this forum steal a psicore of some-one in a trade or rep or sumthing, he looked pretty proud of it...
petetic lazy losers
I'm curious how the switch works, last thing I do before exchanging rares is scan the rare and click ready, if he then changes anything my 'ready' should turn off stopping the trade on my side.
So how exactly is he fixing the trade?
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 14:10
kk do not do anything in situations like this. i wouldnt know how to counter it either - even a voting system would turn into a popularity contest. PK'er? "ONOZ he PK me! all my clan will vote for you to be banned nowz!!11!"
this does need something done - people MUST leave over this. personally i have lost fully artifact CS's / HL / HP from bugs / hacks... i dunno why im still here really - all i ever do is run around in plaza 1
EDIT @El_MUERkO - i have no idea... but some people seem to be able to change it after the ready button... i seen people have it done (in a net cafe - i seen it happen multiple times)
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 14:12
IT's sad that in the other thread so many people proudly admitted to scamming, stealing, and all sorts of thuggery. :(
Original monk
03-12-03, 14:13
i think that people forget to check again after the part/chips jumped back in, to much trust, careless, i dunno, fact is that some other people use this for scamming people, and it seems to work i noticed, and if that doesnt work, sumthing else will .... sadly
so if you keep checking nothing can go wrong yeah, but i bet you dont check everytime something changes, you yust see the same chip being put back in again and press ok :/ i know not smart of most people but thats the way it goes... personaly i havent been scammed before, but if it happens the world is to small and things gonna explode ... i think
edit: like jester said .. my mate was being a 100% sure he checked it the last time he pushed OK and that it was a SA, thats why he was shocked, i think by myself he didnt checked it last time, i wasnt paying enough attention to notice it ... but he claims for a 100% he checked it :/
altough in my whole neocronlife i never seen sumthing change after i checked ok, not even with a bug or sumthing .... wich doesnt mean its impossible ffcourse, i bet there must be some way around that as usual, but fact is, it sucks ...
*cough carebear *cough*
You are allowed to play a evil or good guy. If you wanna go out and kill 45 people of your own faction, hack a layer of a allied op you are allowed to. If you wanna make a researcher to scam people of parts, you can do so too. Nothing is forbidden in that way.
I do feel sorry for your friend, but he really should have checked checked checked checked and rechecked to a chip this much worth.
This is also what makes this game better from other mmorpg, you actually can play a bad guy and do evil stuff without hacking or exploiting. I dont see anything wrong with it, but I would shoot you if you did it to a friend of mine :p
I never hit "OK" first unless I know the other person VERY well.
/edit - it does suck though when people get robbed.
Original monk
03-12-03, 14:23
yup youre right, recheck recheck recheck, but hes still telling me he did so ... altough i think thats weird ...
and for playing a bad char .... i can make 4 bad chars on every english server scamming mc5parts and stealing money and chips of clans and players and then sell em on e-bay ... is that allowed ?? hehe funny game but then it wont last pretty long ... the game that is ....
As an experiment i should start a scamchar and try to get 100 million true scamming people on 1 weekend, i think i can scam a 100 million on 1,5 hour if i would like certainly of the big clans ... but still thats no reason to do so ...
dirty scammers
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 14:25
Originally posted by Original monk
yup youre right, recheck recheck recheck, but hes still telling me he did so ... altough i think thats weird ...
and for playing a bad char .... i can make 4 bad chars on every english server scamming mc5parts and stealing money and chips of clans and players and then sell em on e-bay ... is that allowed ?? hehe funny game but then it wont last pretty long ... the game that is ....
As an experiment i should start a scamchar and try to get 100 million true scamming people on 1 weekend, i think i can scam a 100 million on 1,5 hour if i would like certainly of the big clans ... but still thats no reason to do so ...
dirty scammers
that is allowed.
theiving is allowed. selling on E-Bay is allowed. i cant see doing both as a problem... thats just the way it is O_o
Original monk
03-12-03, 14:40
then its time taht i get in touch with my darkside ... its obvious that stealing and scamming people goes much faster and is much easier then hunting warbots for weeks and weeks and hard trades and alot of tradeskilling and trouble ...
its easier to rip of a SA (telling that im a level 200 repper, while actually im a pure rifler or sumthing) then to go hunt at mc5 for about a month :/
SHITSYSTEM: you HAVE to give youre gear to someone else to get it repped (if you dont have a repper yourself, like i do) but on the other hand, the so called repper can choose what he does: keep the 40 mill worth chip or yust rep it honestly and give it back ... cause if he "plays" a bad char you yust lost youre chip, thanx alot there are honest reppers like castoff, VBW and bob :)
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 14:44
Originally posted by Original monk
thanx alot there are honest reppers like castoff, VBW and bob :)
and NC Junkie on Uranus!
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IT's sad that in the other thread so many people proudly admitted to scamming, stealing, and all sorts of thuggery. :(
You juz got outsmarted by someone who decided to play a "bad" character. Tough luck.
Back in another medieval MMORG I played a thief. I roleplayed and conned/robbed many ppl. And it was fun :D Its my choice to roleplay an "evil" guy.
I also had my fair share of attempts made on MY life. Of being chased and hunted down due to the large bounty on my head.
So fair is fair.
Once the entire town followed me like lynch mob, and i couldn't step out of town (safe zone) without being stabbed by 20+ newbies. 8|
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 14:59
Originally posted by gizmojack
You juz got outsmarted by someone who decided to play a "bad" character. Tough luck.
|
Erm, no I didn't. What are you talking about?
:confused:
Btw, nice use of the "rp" excuse as usual. :lol:
If it was general scamming then he is allowed. If he is using a bug of the trade window (which it does look like) to scam, then that would certainly cover him under getting in trouble.
For the moment all I can suggest is do not click OK until they do. Or get a trusted Escrow to handle the exchange (although again this is open to scamming).
unless you hadn't noticed people it's far to easy to RP a c*** in NC. it's the laziest of professions and unlike PKing, there are no SL or other penltys recieved for such actions.
so if people want to RP scamers and the like as legit RP. then some form of penlty system should be in place. i don't see why PKers should be the only ones to suffer for their crimes and not others.
Better trading failsafes are needed - if you buy something off a guy in the street and he fucks you over at least you can chase him and kick his butt, but in game you are fucked over big time :(
Originally posted by Dardalion
Better trading failsafes are needed - if you buy something off a guy in the street and he fucks you over at least you can chase him and kick his butt, but in game you are fucked over big time :(
Or you can pay a well known clan that likes beating people up to make the characters life a living hell.
QuantumDelta
03-12-03, 15:27
Originally posted by CarniFlex
*cough carebear *cough*
You are allowed to play a evil or good guy. If you wanna go out and kill 45 people of your own faction, hack a layer of a allied op you are allowed to. If you wanna make a researcher to scam people of parts, you can do so too. Nothing is forbidden in that way.
I do feel sorry for your friend, but he really should have checked checked checked checked and rechecked to a chip this much worth.
This is also what makes this game better from other mmorpg, you actually can play a bad guy and do evil stuff without hacking or exploiting. I dont see anything wrong with it, but I would shoot you if you did it to a friend of mine :p
I can't be arsed to read the rest of this thread, but this reply.
[edited for violation of the forum rules-flaming]
Theives only work in Neocron by abusing flaws in the system.
*FLAWS* *LOOPHOLES* *Lack of Insight*
Roleplayers, and scammers, are two different things.
"Playing a bad guy" is role play.
I don't think any of the scammers I've ever met would be called a roleplayer.
Dispite the fact that I'm friends with one or two of them, most of them are morons, assholes, and just don't give a shit.
They play the game to make other peoples games hell, they don't care about anything else but their own fun and --- that is ruining everyone elses fun.
A fair few people have quit because of people like this, ABUSING THE SYSTEM.
Before you ask, no, I've never been scammed, I actually have no real reason to be bitter apart from the people scammers have made quit.
However, I really think it's quite bullshit that people abuse the system to do it.
If someone RPed as it, I might even entertain the fact of letting them scam me...but since they don't....lol.....
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
and NC Junkie on Uranus!
Hell Yes, If Any SSC Trader is ever reported to be scamming, they will be investigated and booted if they infact are.
Junkeh is one of our lead Reppers AFAIK :p
its pretty obvious and there's no bug. If you don't check the chip before you hit ok, then you are trusting the person, and we all know what happens for trusting people sometimes. And saying that people are leaving over getting scammed, is true, but its also true that people leave for getting rezkilled afk and loosing all their stuff that way, or whatever. Bad things happen to people in NC and sometimes it makes them want to quit. Maybe next time your friend will check the chip before he hits ok? I know I would.
Edit: Yeah i know about the bug where your trade window empties itself, but when people cheat over trade, this bug doesn't even have to happen. They can simply take it out themselves
[edited - please do not post what may or may not be exploits. Instead send your conjectures to abuse@nrocron.com]
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 15:35
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Hell Yes, If Any SSC Trader is ever reported to be scamming, they will be investigated and booted if they infact are.
Junkeh is one of our lead Reppers AFAIK :p
130 rep / 187 res iirc :D (both stats unboosted by spells/ops)
Originally posted by Archeus
Or you can pay a well known clan that likes beating people up to make the characters life a living hell.
True - but its only a small amount of satisfaction in return.
MjukisDjur
03-12-03, 16:31
I tend to always f12 and never trade low lvl people. In case I get ripped off I can always make sure no one else trade the fucker :P
Originally posted by Dardalion
True - but its only a small amount of satisfaction in return.
Of course if it is done well enough that person will not enjoy thier life in NC. I recall a clan leader scamming the wrong person (the clan leader thought it was acceptable) and having his whole clans members turned into a living nightmare for them and him to leave a safezone.
Most of his clan quit over it. Never seen the guy in question in game since.
There are mechanics in the game to protect you somewhat, however scamming using a bug is a bit lame. Now if they orginally put the low level chip into the trade window and got away with that way (the person didn't check the chip) then I don't have a problem with that.
If you ask me (and i dont know your mate) maybe he lied to not seem stupid or something. But scamming someone is no good way to get good stuff in the game. The scammers acct should be banned for 2 months or so. And about the apology letter, your friend shouldnt have to write a letter for doing what NC is all about.... KILLING!!!!!!
Originally posted by wolfwood
The scammers acct should be banned for 2 months or so.
It is already clearly laid out that scamming is part of the game, as long as a player does not exploit to do a scam.
Its a harsh world, and it sucks loosing stuff but you learn from it. I don't know about other servers but Pluto for example a lot of the scammers are known, as are respectable people. So even a question on OOC can get you a quick character reference of a person.
Psycho Killa
03-12-03, 17:08
Theres no way in hell anyone should ever be banned for scamming someone in game As long as they use the propper game mechanics.
You got scammed learn from your mistakes get even and move on.
If we didn't have safezones you could kill him for it, and get everyone else trading legitimately to shoot him too...
Psycho Killa
03-12-03, 17:14
Exactly nerf the safe zones! Then you can get your revenge easily they wont be able to hide in plaza.
I remember reading once on saturn in game forum a runner had posted an email another runner had sent him....basically to make a long post short runner who originally sent email stated that he was scamming people and telling them he was someone else....and told this guy if he did not pay him X amount of cash he would continue to ruin is reputation....supposedly KK banned this dude.....why can they not do anything in this scenario????? this guy was not exploiting in the least bit yet got banned.....KK needs to make an example out of these scammers and do it fast.....
its one thing when some dude is spamming hes a TL 175/150 resser and TL 200/150 repair and most people wont look to see that hes only lvl 0/2(happens more than you think) that IMO deserves no action if you get scammed by that considering its an advertisement that he actually does intend to scam you because there is no way he is those tech levels.....
but in a case where someone does actually initiate a trade and has an item and makes a deal, especially with hi value items....they need to do something...i personally have never got scammed, i never hit ok til they do first....if i ever traded cross server...even if i was the person who initiated it...i insist i get shit first...if they dont agree i dont trade....its a dog eat dog world...in RL and in NC.....altho i dont agree with theifs....99% of the time its youre own stupidity they caught you on.....my friend o saturn was trading someone a 5 slot CS bunch of tank rare imps and cash for a DS.....like this scenario he hit ok and the dude switched it with a psi core....it happens....and it sucks....but always make sure what youre getting before u hit ok...never assume
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 17:27
claiming to be someone is harrassment. spoiling someones name is harassment. that is against the rules and will earn you a ban
ghandisfury
03-12-03, 18:09
I guess the major issue I have with lame thieves is the fact that nothing can be done about it. On Saturn I can have four characters all with different names, and one person who's sole responsability is to stay in plaza one and scam people. This way my other three aults have nothing to fear from my dishonest childish acts. I think one of the biggest mistakes KK made was making four character servers. The other big mistake was make it to where all of your four characters could have different names. On a four character server (which shouldn't be there in the first place) you should only have one "name slot". They need to remove safe zones forever!! People have the ability to cheat/lie/steal with impunity in plaza one. If there were no safe zones you could have just rezzkilled the guy until you got your moneysworth. I would have rezzkilled him for eternity. And if the above was done (one "name slot") then you could rezzkill his aults as well. You would get ample satisfaction by making the little twirp quit the game.
First thing that needs to be done is remove all safe zones. Make an appology system where you can ask the person you killed (by mistake ;)) for forgiveness and it would reset your soullight to where it was before the death. Rework soul light, or make it to where you can make a person an enemy by right clicking and "adding enemie". Make the trade window act just like it's in a box...scrolling over an item will show you the full name. Make it to where you can find any person at any time, and they can know you are looking for them. Make appartments hackable, but keep the boxes the way they are. Basically make it to where you can find any person at any time and kill him. This would be a good start to stopping this unethical behavior.
Anyway, just my two cent's....I'm sorry for your friends loss.....but look on the bright side, he could have been hacked, and had all of your money stolen, 500 rare parts, 60 MC5 parts, and multiple rare weapons stolen from....TWICE....things can always get worse;)
Ummm..........
Im pretty sure that if the person moves an object from trade and you have accepted it, then you automatically unacept it.
Im PRETTY sure..........
Deal that good he probably was so excited about getting the thing he didn't pay to much attention checked it once maybe.
I would be checking it non stop wait till he accepts then check it again, then again and maybe once more then accept.
Anyway I dont think people should hate on scamers just cause they dont pay attention.
I remember reading once on saturn in game forum a runner had posted an email another runner had sent him....basically to make a long post short runner who originally sent email stated that he was scamming people and telling them he was someone else....and told this guy if he did not pay him X amount of cash he would continue to ruin is reputation....supposedly KK banned this dude.....why can they not do anything in this scenario????? this guy was not exploiting in the least bit yet got banned.....KK needs to make an example out of these scammers and do it fast.....
Im not sure if this person was ever banned but if he was it wasn't for scaming no rule against scaming. What that person was doing could go down as harrsment if he constantly put it on the same runner several times.
This is an exploit ... there is a trade bug and this is now exploited....
In return be more carefull, something leaves his inventory then mebbe your 3 slot hl leave yours and instead some noob lightning spell appears then you tarde a bez 1 for a tl 3 noob spell....
But yes Ban them, they give good hard working tradesman and players a badname
Originally posted by Crest
But yes Ban them, they give good hard working tradesman and players a badname
Well so much for a dark and dirty cyber punk game :(
The game mechanics should not allow for tradewindow scams, ever. This is abuse and exploitation and I feel that it should be a bannable offense.
I've had friends quit the game because of this one also, ever notice that a MOVEON looks just like a distance-3 chip?
There is no way to actually prevent these scams from occurring until the tradewindow bugs are fixed however that doesn't mean that KK cannot frown on the activity. Awareness of the scams helps but it doesn't stop them from occurring.
Also fix mouse-over in the trade window, please. Also fix MC5 parts so that you can actually see what you're trading with people for.
Thread gets 5 stars. This matter needs to be one of KK's top-5 priorities.
D
uummm
Steps
1)put good item in window.
2)wait till person puts there's in
3)wait for person to click accept
4)switch item with similar looking item
5)Accept
6)Hope there person hits accept again and doesn't bother to double check the item.
That is some expliot well it is but only the expliot of the stupidity of others and KK cant nerf that.
Always double and tripple check items in a big deal and when the good deal comes along dont let your excitment override your thinking.
MayhemMike
03-12-03, 18:52
I hate bastards that do stuff like this.
Originally posted by Crest
This is an exploit ... there is a trade bug and this is now exploited....
In return be more carefull, something leaves his inventory then mebbe your 3 slot hl leave yours and instead some noob lightning spell appears then you tarde a bez 1 for a tl 3 noob spell....
But yes Ban them, they give good hard working tradesman and players a badname
I got an idea, lets give lollipops and flowers to the good tradeskillers? its not an exploit of a bug, because people do it independently of the bug. That is Soooooo unbanable and you know it. anytime something disappears and reappears into the inventory i always recheck it. It is that simple. If you don't recheck it its a matter of trust. And betryaing someone's trust isn't an exploit, its a strategy.
No exploit.
Just dumbass people.
Never happened to me, why? Because when I see the implant drop out of the window, i re-check it to make sure it is the same item. If other people don't bother to double check the item, its thier own fault.
Like kimmyg said, its just the stupidity of others. Not an exploit.
People try to rip people off ALL THE TIME in real life, so the same thing can be said about online games...just play smart and it wont happen to you.
Mohahhaha switch item trade..
Thinks about funny trades in Diablo 2 :rolleyes: :D
I mean its a funny scam all is about same GFX items IF KK would do diffrent GFX on the ULTRA rare MC5 it would never happend ooh well like I allways say give us more gfx =)
Psyco Groupie
03-12-03, 19:53
In my opinion and through logic that IS CERTAINLY exploiting, this player and his alts should be banned permanently.
This isnt taking someones rare after pretending to repair, this is exploiting the way trade is handled for his/her own benefit.
I request KK's word on this and I hope it shares my opinion and some rules should be stickied on every forum stating something like:
Stealing after lying about skill is underhanded but legal, but you wont make many friends doing this.
Stealing by fraud is illegal, especially using the game code to hide real trade items etc ... is a bannable offence
Never happened to me, but these people are ruining the game, again being stolen from is anoying, but being conned because of lag/the engine is evil.
ghandisfury
03-12-03, 20:21
Originally posted by KimmyG
Well so much for a dark and dirty cyber punk game :(
In that dark dirty cyber punk game, I would have killed his ass over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.............................
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gizmojack
You juz got outsmarted by someone who decided to play a "bad" character. Tough luck.
|
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I think problem is that scum like that is not really 'role playing' at all, they are scum in real life as well and where in real life they can't get away with it because it will catch up with them and they get their ass whipped, in the game they think they can get away with it
They are loosers in life so they come into a game and think they are hot shit and proud of it too, sad...........
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
In my opinion and through logic that IS CERTAINLY exploiting, this player and his alts should be banned permanently.
This isnt taking someones rare after pretending to repair, this is exploiting the way trade is handled for his/her own benefit.
I request KK's word on this and I hope it shares my opinion and some rules should be stickied on every forum stating something like:
Stealing after lying about skill is underhanded but legal, but you wont make many friends doing this.
Stealing by fraud is illegal, especially using the game code to hide real trade items etc ... is a bannable offence
Never happened to me, but these people are ruining the game, again being stolen from is anoying, but being conned because of lag/the engine is evil.
OK then scammer says that the deal was for the imp that you got and you cant prove other wise.
@ghandis
sure but everyone like the safe zone and all.
ghandisfury
03-12-03, 20:34
Originally posted by KimmyG
@ghandis
sure but everyone like the safe zone and all.
Exactly my point. These so called "bad" players aren't playing a "bad" player. Thier playing a 12 year old in his mommies house.....he know mommy won't let anybody hurt de ppooo litoow bebyyy. I.E. he is playing a shithead that can't be touched in plaza one. A "real" bad guy would lie, cheat, steal, and otherwise make all players lives miserable while acceptcing the consiquences of his actions (not hiding in safezones).
Like I said in previous posts, remove safe zones, and let's see how these so called "bad" players fair then. I guarentee you they'll change thier attitude (and most of them will re-roll).
Original monk
03-12-03, 20:54
very intresting situation, very intresting:
so actually people say that if you scam on large scale for large ammounts of money (a mc5 chip is what i call large ammounts of money) and as long as you use non-abuse, non-exploit methods:
like gaining the trust of a clan and then stripping it dry, or swiftly changing the item for a worthless item when it yumps back, or yust claiming youre a level 200 repper and stealing the other guys psicore and ds, then youre doing nothing wrong according to the game rules.
except that there is no ethics (so its fucking dirty) in what you do but there are no "real" objections to it ... some people see it even as a sport or sumthing, or yust dont see this things as "dirty" (check the i confess thread) ...
i dont think ripping of +12millions is roleplay, its more like organised (well tought over) crime ... the dangerous cyberpunkworld dont count here :/ thats for roleplayers only ... not alot of roleplayers here (especially not on saturn)
dumbasspeople ? in theory yes: until it happens to you cause youre only human also ... i was sitting next to my mate, and didnt notice, he didnt notice altough he claimed he checked .. we both play some time now and he knows how to trade parts by know ..
this means it yust could of happen to you as to him, to me and to everybody ...
stealing a sum of money or an equivalent in rarechips where you worked hard for for months hits ya hard to the head ... i bet KK gonna loose people here, certainly if some people start "specializing" in the "bartertechniques" being spoken of here ... i think people will start opening there eyes if its gonna happen on a bit bigger scale then its busy know ... why i am feared of that ? cause the last weeks i see so many people being ripped of incredibly valuable items ... on plaza, on trade and even next to me on lan in my own house ...
exagurating ? nah, i feel a precedent being created :(
i hope i dont phear people with my tread, but very dirty things can happen in neocron i noticed ...
have fun posting, playing and trading honestly (but beware)
to the scammer that ripped of my friend who i know is reading this and knows its going about him: i know you, i know youre alts, i know youre clan (altough im sure they are not involved, you are running a 1 man business, 100%). and that doesnt mean that im putting you on my KOSlist no (i dont have a koslist ya see), that means you have my full undevided attention now.
Originally posted by KimmyG
uummm
Steps
1)put good item in window.
2)wait till person puts there's in
3)wait for person to click accept
4)switch item with similar looking item
5)Accept
6)Hope there person hits accept again and doesn't bother to double check the item.
That is some expliot well it is but only the expliot of the stupidity of others and KK cant nerf that.
Always double and tripple check items in a big deal and when the good deal comes along dont let your excitment override your thinking.
If that's all it was that's "acceptable" in the current game setup though very annoying for those involved. In this case possibly and certainly in many others that's not how it's done though. There is (or was) a trade exploit. I don't know how it's done but I've seen it demonstrated first hand so I know it's possible. I was shown this a patche or two back so it's possibly fixed now but it was there.
As for anyone playing the RP card on this - I'd gladly take the lot of you outside and give you all the beatings your parents should have done. Same goes for the "Uranus will solve everything" muppets.
stealing a sum of money or an equivalent in rarechips where you worked hard for for months hits ya hard to the head ... i bet KK gonna loose people here, certainly if some people start "specializing" in the "bartertechniques" being spoken of here ... i think people will start opening there eyes if its gonna happen on a bit bigger scale then its busy know ... why i am feared of that ? cause the last weeks i see so many people being ripped of incredibly valuable items ... on plaza, on trade and even next to me on lan in my own house ...
No I dont think this is method of theft is as old as teh trade window. UO has it, diablo has it neocron has it the all have.
What is the safety measure once you take the item out it stops the accept feature all you have to do is make sure when that happens you double check.
Plus no body will get banned cause how can you prove they did what they did?
Calling this whole thing an exploit just shows how pathetic this community is. An exploit is something you cannot do anything about.
YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS FOR CHRIST SAKE...WHAT DO YOU DO? GET SMART!
Same thing goes for all sorts of things...such as trade hacks. PRESS ALT+K WHILE YOU'RE FIGHTING AND YOU CAN'T BE TRADE HACKED!
This shit aint rocket science people....scamming isn't exploiting the game, its only exploiting peoples stupidity...and it happens every day, in this game and in the real world...so get used to it.
ghandisfury
03-12-03, 21:28
Originally posted by g0rt
Calling this whole thing an exploit just shows how pathetic this community is. An exploit is something you cannot do anything about.
It is an exploit because there is nothing they can do about it......that person will hang out in plaza one for the rest of his career. If there was no safe zones I would say "get smart", but when a player can rip another player off with no fear of being repaid the favor, it's bullshit. They need to fix the trade window, and they need to remove safezones.
Well when I submit my latest list of "Odin's Pet Peeves" I'm going to see what we can do to the trade window to improve it.
Any chance we could have the list posted on the forum when you submit it?
Nice avatar btw. I'd almost hug him if it wasn't for the fact he would shoot me. I'm not a terrorist, I'm a freedom fighter! :p
I think if all this involves is a quick swap of the item then techincally it's not an exploit, since the Go button is unpressed automatically if anything changes on the other player's side. If, as some people are suggesting, there is a way around this, such that you can swap an item without the Go button being unpressed, then there is no excuse, and it is an exploit.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
It is an exploit because there is nothing they can do about it......that person will hang out in plaza one for the rest of his career. If there was no safe zones I would say "get smart", but when a player can rip another player off with no fear of being repaid the favor, it's bullshit. They need to fix the trade window, and they need to remove safezones.
Can do nothing about it? THEY CAN CHECK THE IMPLANT THAT FELL OUT OF THE WINDOW.
Please dont be so stupid. Don't tell me that you cannot CHECK whats in the trade window, I know and you know thats a pile of crap.
Psyco Groupie
03-12-03, 21:47
with the current system im almost certain that the client could show no 'update' of the trade window AS the other party pressed ok.
this dark and eviol game bollocks, is bollocks ... people arent trying to steal stuff they are trying to get it by bending rules.
fooken disfunctional children.
Originally posted by CarniFlex
*cough carebear *cough*
You are allowed to play a evil or good guy. If you wanna go out and kill 45 people of your own faction, hack a layer of a allied op you are allowed to. If you wanna make a researcher to scam people of parts, you can do so too. Nothing is forbidden in that way.
I do feel sorry for your friend, but he really should have checked checked checked checked and rechecked to a chip this much worth.
This is also what makes this game better from other mmorpg, you actually can play a bad guy and do evil stuff without hacking or exploiting. I dont see anything wrong with it, but I would shoot you if you did it to a friend of mine :p
That's complete and utter bullshit and you know it! Have you ever seen anything cyberpunk? Or played a game? Or read a book? Sure crime is more rampant. Sure there are plenty of people that would kill you before saying "hi". Sure there are thieves etc... But the laws are also harsher. Take a look at Judge Dredd for instance. A classic of sorts. He's judge, jury and executioner. You comit a crime, you die. Neocron is still not proper cyberpunk style game because if anything it really is too "carebear" for the assholes. If you PK members of your own faction/members of your own clan. Steal millions of credits worth of items or even jaywalked and were caught doing it, you deserve to die. I'm not saying just to be shot to pieces by a copbot/strombot. I'm saying shot to pieces and having to reroll that character due to perma-death. Why the heck would records of criminals be kept on file at GR stations to allow them to resurrect? Explain that to me!
So yes, nothing is "forbidden", you can be as rotten as you want. But if you are caught, you are terminated on sight. If you escape, they will follow you to the ends of the earth until they do terminate you. And you will NOT come back. Now THAT's true cyberpunk! And yes, you're right, Neocron is too much of a "carebear" game to do that to those assholes!
Report them, their chars can be traced even if they delete them after the scam :)
Originally posted by Archeus
Or you can pay a well known clan that likes beating people up to make the characters life a living hell.
Which is when the scammer simply deletes his scammer char and makes a new one. I know someone who has done it quite a few times on Uranus. I won't mention the name, but plenty of you probably know him.
It doesn't take long to reroll another spy and getting him to rank 30-40 so he can "pretend" to be a legit repairer. (or researcher or what not)
So no, hunting a scammer is a waste of time as he is likely to just log off or go to his apartment, dump the item in lobby, switch to his alt, pick up the item and delete the scammer. The perfect crime really. Especially on multi-char servers. Though with multiple accounts it's even easier as you can have both chars on at the same time, so you can just transfer all items directly and delete the char instantly.
Well, if we had both no safezones, and no protected slot 1, it wouldn't be a problem, because if somebody scammed you then you could just waste them and get the item back, or at least something of decent value. If you just gave him 5 rares and he kept the MC5 chip or whatever, then chances are he will at least drop one of them.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I guess the major issue I have with lame thieves is the fact that nothing can be done about it. On Saturn I can have four characters all with different names, and one person who's sole responsability is to stay in plaza one and scam people. This way my other three aults have nothing to fear from my dishonest childish acts. I think one of the biggest mistakes KK made was making four character servers. The other big mistake was make it to where all of your four characters could have different names. On a four character server (which shouldn't be there in the first place) you should only have one "name slot". They need to remove safe zones forever!! People have the ability to cheat/lie/steal with impunity in plaza one. If there were no safe zones you could have just rezzkilled the guy until you got your moneysworth. I would have rezzkilled him for eternity. And if the above was done (one "name slot") then you could rezzkill his aults as well. You would get ample satisfaction by making the little twirp quit the game.
First thing that needs to be done is remove all safe zones. Make an appology system where you can ask the person you killed (by mistake ;)) for forgiveness and it would reset your soullight to where it was before the death. Rework soul light, or make it to where you can make a person an enemy by right clicking and "adding enemie". Make the trade window act just like it's in a box...scrolling over an item will show you the full name. Make it to where you can find any person at any time, and they can know you are looking for them. Make appartments hackable, but keep the boxes the way they are. Basically make it to where you can find any person at any time and kill him. This would be a good start to stopping this unethical behavior.
Anyway, just my two cent's....I'm sorry for your friends loss.....but look on the bright side, he could have been hacked, and had all of your money stolen, 500 rare parts, 60 MC5 parts, and multiple rare weapons stolen from....TWICE....things can always get worse;)
There you go again making silly ideas and saying they have to be implemented without thinking about it... Sure, you can get your revenge on a scammer that way (Though rez-killing really doesn't work because after one death they can just GR back to their apartment). But what about everyone else? What stops the same assholes from killing/rez-killing innocent people to harvest their items? Remember, this "solution" will only create more problems for the honest people, the assholes will always be happy no matter what happens. After all, they are there to have fun by ruining everyone else's fun.
Originally posted by Nasher
Report them, their chars can be traced even if they delete them after the scam :)
Yea do that a) its not illegal. And b it cant be traced
Psyco Groupie
03-12-03, 22:26
your being very disfunctional at this very moment kimmy
Originally posted by Scikar
Well, if we had both no safezones, and no protected slot 1, it wouldn't be a problem, because if somebody scammed you then you could just waste them and get the item back, or at least something of decent value. If you just gave him 5 rares and he kept the MC5 chip or whatever, then chances are he will at least drop one of them.
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense.
This is nothing to do with safe-zones. How exactly is a tradeskiller going to "waste" a fighter that double-crosses him?
Maybe you believe that all the tradeskillers will rise up like in some awful teen melodrama and take down the bully/ass-hat.
WAKE UP!!!! It won't happen, you'll just end up with no tradeskillers, no guns, no fun and no game.
In case you missed it there was a vote on safe-slots and you lost. If there was a vote on safe-zones I bet you a million credits you'd lose again. If/when KK implement Neptune you'll have your chance to try to prove the majority wrong and make it a success. Until then live with the consequences of democracy.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Yea do that a) its not illegal. And b it cant be traced
If they exploited to do it the can be banned if caught doing it again. I'm sure the GM's can set traps to catch people out.
I'm quite certain characters can be traced to accounts even after deletion.
Originally posted by jernau
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense.
This is nothing to do with safe-zones. How exactly is a tradeskiller going to "waste" a fighter that double-crosses him?
Maybe you believe that all the tradeskillers will rise up like in some awful teen melodrama and take down the bully/ass-hat.
WAKE UP!!!! It won't happen, you'll just end up with no tradeskillers, no guns, no fun and no game.
In case you missed it there was a vote on safe-slots and you lost. If there was a vote on safe-zones I bet you a million credits you'd lose again. If/when KK implement Neptune you'll have your chance to try to prove the majority wrong and make it a success. Until then live with the consequences of democracy.
What about all these honest people we keep hearing about here on the forums? Wouldn't they stick up for the tradeskillers? That's just like the argument that without safezones people would constantly gank the tradeskillers. You forget that there are all these people who actually need the tradeskillers for their service. Or would you just stand by and watch someone run in, kill a constructor, and run back out again? I would love to prove this on Neptune, but we can't even get that, because every time we make the vote, the result is No, because it would leave the other servers deserted, KK can't afford it, it's not fair to turn another server into Neptune, it's not fair to do a server merge, etc.
ghandisfury
03-12-03, 23:04
Originally posted by Lareolan
There you go again making silly ideas and saying they have to be implemented without thinking about it...
First of all, I have no idea who you are. So saying I'm making silly comments "agian" is kinda.....erm......:confused: Secondly, alot of people agree with alot of the "silly" things I say....who in the hell are you agian? Thirdly, did you read the entire post? (and even if you did, I doubt you understood it).....
Originally posted by Lareolan
Sure, you can get your revenge on a scammer that way (Though rez-killing really doesn't work because after one death they can just GR back to their apartment).
Answered with this......... On a four character server (which shouldn't be there in the first place) you should only have one "name slot". And this.............. Make appartments hackable, but keep the boxes the way they are. Basically make it to where you can find any person at any time and kill him. So if a clan wants to protect their liar/cheating/scum of the earth buddie they can (I know my clan wouldn't).
Originally posted by Lareolan
But what about everyone else? What stops the same assholes from killing/rez-killing innocent people to harvest their items?
Nothing but his freinds. I would listen to both sides, and see which person deserves to die. There is a plaza full of people that would protect the innocent (I'm sure even if it wasn't their faction).
Originally posted by Lareolan
Remember, this "solution" will only create more problems for the honest people, the assholes will always be happy no matter what happens. After all, they are there to have fun by ruining everyone else's fun.
I think this is just coming from a different culture (not an insult by any means). I am under the belief that the world would be a safer place if it were mandatory for all people to own and carry guns. People help people.......and the only people that gun laws (or in this case safe zones hurt) are the innocent.
I never said any of these rules HAD to be added, I only said that I think it would make Neocron a more interesting, enjoyable atmosphere.
@Skitar. Exactly my friend, exactly;)
Originally posted by MayhemMike
I hate bastards that do stuff like this.
I really hope you are sarcastic here, because I think the best example of such people is you. Didn't you brag about scamming someone of an MC5 chip on all chans?
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 23:17
Yes he did Russian. Btw hi.
Anyways, when I sold my DS I sold it at a discount price to the same person mike scammed. And as a courtesy, I gave them the DS and took half the money. Then got the other half later, kuz I know it would have been hard for them to trust me.
Originally posted by jernau
If they exploited to do it the can be banned if caught doing it again. I'm sure the GM's can set traps to catch people out.
I'm quite certain characters can be traced to accounts even after deletion.
yes if its an expliot but if they just switch and u dont pay attention its not. IN that is what happens most of the time.
If they exploited to do it the can be banned if caught doing it again. I'm sure the GM's can set traps to catch people out.
I'm quite certain characters can be traced to accounts even after deletion.
ffs
how many times do i gotta say it?
its not an exploit so stfu
the idiot on the other side of hte trade window who does NOT CHECK THE ITEM IN TRADE is just an idiot, thats all
whats going to happen? ban people for this? so someone puts a wrong tech in the trade window and the other guy doesn't check it, and boom banned? stupid stupid shit.
its not an exploit. its stupidity
g0rt, it appears some people are claiming there is an exploit whereby you can swap an item without the Go button resetting, therefore the other person does not have any indication that anything has changed.
@ ghandisfury: Who the hell is Skitar? :p
Psycho Killa
04-12-03, 02:39
I was atleast told by a gm characters cant be traced after deletion....
One day i was with megaman in tech haven and his skills suddenly went to level 1 each. Some noob with there le in ran by at the same time named MeGaHmAn and said something to us i cant remember. Anyways when a gm showed up to fix mega we told him that it was odd that someone would name a character just like his and walk by just when this happened. He said it was already deleted and there was no way to check who it came from (Unless he just didnt wanna bother and was yankin our chain.)
Originally posted by Scikar
g0rt, it appears some people are claiming there is an exploit whereby you can swap an item without the Go button resetting, therefore the other person does not have any indication that anything has changed.
@ ghandisfury: Who the hell is Skitar? :p
I do a hell of alot of trading, with people I know and don't know.
Funny how its never happened to me. :rolleyes: Also funny how I check the item and hit the ok button right away before they can do any funny shit, and if i do it again, i repeat.
I run with shady players. If theres an exploit, I will most likely know about it. Im sure most GM's that know my ingame characters know this. Im not saying i exploit them, but I am saying that if its an exploit...I usually always know about it. And this aint an exploit. Every case of this happening mentioned in here, I know the people who did it.
And every time it was as simple as replace really quickly and hit ok.
•Super|\|ova•
04-12-03, 03:40
Well, you guys could always move to Pluto since that way you at least would not have to stand those 4 char thief assholes. And anyways on Pluto... I don't think that trick would work there so good. On Pluto we have some "unwritten laws", silent contract between the citizens... some morals. If someone would do that trick on Pluto they would get in the KOS list of maybe every player over there. People on Pluto just wouldn't do it as far as I know.
Originally posted by Scikar
What about all these honest people we keep hearing about here on the forums? Wouldn't they stick up for the tradeskillers? That's just like the argument that without safezones people would constantly gank the tradeskillers. You forget that there are all these people who actually need the tradeskillers for their service. Or would you just stand by and watch someone run in, kill a constructor, and run back out again? I would love to prove this on Neptune, but we can't even get that, because every time we make the vote, the result is No, because it would leave the other servers deserted, KK can't afford it, it's not fair to turn another server into Neptune, it's not fair to do a server merge, etc.
Well, not entirely true. Most of the good people belong to clans and clans have their own tradeskillers. Us street tradeskillers are only useful for nobodies, newbies and people from tiny clans that don't have in-house tradeskillers. So if you are a tradeskiller that doesn't join a large and powerful clan, you'll still be totally powerless and defenceless in Plaza trying to get customers.
There may be some people who would come in to help, but they won't be there 24/7 and they won't be able to prevent tradeskiller ganking, just take revenge afterwards which is of little to no consolation to the "gankee". So I don't see how this could work. (Which is why I am very much against Neptune. A secondary Pluto once player number rise with DoY would be good though).
Edit:
@ ghandisfury, I said "There you go again..." not "There you go .. blah... silly ideas again". The first one is a figure of speach which basically does not refer to you but everyone. As in, you're not the only one with the "silly ideas". But I honestly think removing all safe zones is a silly idea that will only hurt the people you are trying to protect even more. (Those being the innocents).
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, you guys could always move to Pluto since that way you at least would not have to stand those 4 char thief assholes. And anyways on Pluto... I don't think that trick would work there so good. On Pluto we have some "unwritten laws", silent contract between the citizens... some morals. If someone would do that trick on Pluto they would get in the KOS list of maybe every player over there. People on Pluto just wouldn't do it as far as I know.
Hahaha. I know a few people that pulled some HUGE scams on pluto.
Oh, so typical. LOL
When you are going to buy something from someone, make sure he press ready FIRST, now check if it is the item you wanted, if so, press ok. Wow, a sucessful trade, no scams will be possible unless they exploit somehow.
I don't know if its been said already, but at work so I can't read 6 pages :)
There is a way to exploit trade so while the item is in the other persons trade window it appears to be one thing, and once it is traded and appears in the other persons inven it shows what it really is. If done right this could be carefully planned, but I won't put all the details up here, Nid will hammer me! :)
Edit: Exploit reported :p
Originally posted by Lareolan
Well, not entirely true. Most of the good people belong to clans and clans have their own tradeskillers. Us street tradeskillers are only useful for nobodies, newbies and people from tiny clans that don't have in-house tradeskillers. So if you are a tradeskiller that doesn't join a large and powerful clan, you'll still be totally powerless and defenceless in Plaza trying to get customers.
There may be some people who would come in to help, but they won't be there 24/7 and they won't be able to prevent tradeskiller ganking, just take revenge afterwards which is of little to no consolation to the "gankee". So I don't see how this could work. (Which is why I am very much against Neptune. A secondary Pluto once player number rise with DoY would be good though).
Nobody's forcing you to play on Neptune. It's been promised, and the majority of the community wants it. Those that don't will still have the other servers to play on. The fact that you can't see how it would work just shows why we should get Neptune to prove that it will work.
Also doesn't it make sense that tradeskillers with the support of a large clan (company) will have an advantage over individuals? Also remember that there are all those City Mercs you can hire to protect you.
people are stupid, this is not an exploit in game terms he exploted your stupidity
this is what i see happend
trade opens, in goes ds chip
OMG its a ds , players checks the item, so thrilled to get the chip at last, while looking at the chip it gets swaped while in info screen or what have you
he puts his rares in still thinking about the chip then presses ok
trade ended
no exploit there, just the other guy not checking, ovisly original monk will defend his friend because he definatly is not 'stupid' ,
original you put a spin on this trying to emphasise that your friend was exploted but your wrong tbh
live with it
Originally posted by Scikar
I would love to prove this on Neptune, but we can't even get that, because every time we make the vote, the result is No, because it would leave the other servers deserted, KK can't afford it, it's not fair to turn another server into Neptune, it's not fair to do a server merge, etc.
Maybe not - check MJS' sticky ;).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by g0rt
ffs
how many times do i gotta say it?
its not an exploit so stfu
the idiot on the other side of hte trade window who does NOT CHECK THE ITEM IN TRADE is just an idiot, thats all
whats going to happen? ban people for this? so someone puts a wrong tech in the trade window and the other guy doesn't check it, and boom banned? stupid stupid shit.
its not an exploit. its stupidity
ffs - Read what I said earlier. An exploit DOES exist. I've seen it and it's been reported. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've only seen it once and then only because the guy wanted to test before reporting it. We can't say if that's how he got scammed but 2 experienced players saw it happen and say it was dodgy so I have my suspicions. Please read fully before flaming, saves everyone a lot of hassle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@psycho - They have resurrected chars recently after haxors deleted them so I think they can do it. I'm not KK so I can't be 100% sure but I really doubt they can't trace char names. GMs won't be able to though, I'm pretty sure, as it'll be a DB thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, you guys could always move to Pluto since that way you at least would not have to stand those 4 char thief assholes. And anyways on Pluto... I don't think that trick would work there so good. On Pluto we have some "unwritten laws", silent contract between the citizens... some morals. If someone would do that trick on Pluto they would get in the KOS list of maybe every player over there. People on Pluto just wouldn't do it as far as I know.
ROFLMFAO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Ghandisfury - I've heard of Lareolan, why is his opinion worth less because you haven't?
Originally posted by pood
people are stupid, this is not an exploit in game terms he exploted your stupidity
this is what i see happend
trade opens, in goes ds chip
OMG its a ds , players checks the item, so thrilled to get the chip at last, while looking at the chip it gets swaped while in info screen or what have you
he puts his rares in still thinking about the chip then presses ok
trade ended
no exploit there, just the other guy not checking, ovisly original monk will defend his friend because he definatly is not 'stupid' ,
original you put a spin on this trying to emphasise that your friend was exploted but your wrong tbh
live with it
There is a way to exploit here (or was, found the bug a while ago but didn't think of how to exploit it until now). There is no need to swap what is in the window. It will display as one thing but really be another.
Original monk
04-12-03, 13:09
Originally posted by pood
no exploit there, just the other guy not checking, ovisly original monk will defend his friend because he definatly is not 'stupid' ,
original you put a spin on this trying to emphasise that your friend was exploted but your wrong tbh
I dont put a spin onto anything, i yust want to know if scamming people for millions is legal or not ... i think the accident with my mate was a good example ...
Tbh myself i dunno if my friend was ripped of with an exploit or yust because of its own stupidity ... he told me he was a 100% sure that there was an SA in there before he pushed ok, but as i told before, every human can make a mistake so i dunno it myself even, i dont think he's lying but again he can make mistakes also ..., no spin here you see :)
and i was sitting next to him watching the trade, that shows you that small mistakes or someone exploiting you can happen in a blink of an eye ... but i didnt see em check the last time, yust got a direct at that moment :/ so i cant say if he's wrong or right :/
but thats not the point, point is: is it legal to scam someones whole neocron lifesavings yust for fun, greed or anger towards that person ...
and as you say it so nicely: no i dont wonna defend my mate at all cost, i know he can be stupid also, yust like i by times :) , thats the reason why i keep him and the scammer anonymous you see ... its not a casestudy, its an example to see if scamming is ok or not 8|
and by reading tis thread i noticed scamming is legal unless you start using exploits in youre scam ... not meaning that it isnt dirty business ....
exploit or not: i dont think my mate cares: he only cares about him been scammed on purpose for alot of cash that he doesnt have no more now :/ and took em extremely hard working to get ...
enjoy playing and beware for people that are waiting for youre 1 second of not paying attention ...
If you have details of a trade exploit then please send them to exploits@neocron.com (note, not on the forums) because I for one am unaware of anything in that area. Carelessness is not an exploit.
N
[TgR]KILLER
04-12-03, 14:00
i think he meens the bug that when u got a item to long in your trade it is just put back in your ivent.. and normaly u just put that item back in trade.. but some ppl just put another thing that looks like the orginal back in the trade.. and the other just trusts the guy and press OK.. so u could end up with something worthless.
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
i think he meens the bug that when u got a item to long in your trade it is just put back in your ivent.. and normaly u just put that item back in trade.. but some ppl just put another thing that looks like the orginal back in the trade.. and the other just trusts the guy and press OK.. so u could end up with something worthless.
That's the point. What you described is not a problem because the OK button is reset if anything in the other person's window changes, so it's just a matter of checking the item that they put back in before clicking Go again. But it seems there is an exploit to get around this safety measure and change the item without the OK button resetting, so you click info on the item, it says DS, you click accept, nothing changes, the other person clicks OK and then somehow it's a Psi Resistor.
No
No
No
No...............If he swaped it out legit, then its no exploit. Sorry. Getting burned because you forget to check the chip before you hit okay then thats your own fault. However, if there is some exploit that won't allow the guy to see that the chip was swapped until it was traded, then ill subscribe to the idea that its an exploit. But if the chip dissappears and you don't recheck it when it comes back into the trade window, then you can't be sad when you get screwed.
Originally posted by Nidhogg
Carelessness is not an exploit.
N
So true. Just like getting pushed into a faction HQ while afk. If you were more careful, it wouldn't happen. Im sure there are people that consider that an exploit too.
Every time a item in trade gets changed it asks you to press ok again
this is to stop it, you are to stupid to see this you blame some thing else some hax , well his hax is that he abused your friends stupidity
go to mummy and cry
this is not an exploit as i see it , and maybe a darker side to neocron you have to be wary about
Originally posted by pood
Every time a item in trade gets changed it asks you to press ok again
this is to stop it, you are to stupid to see this you blame some thing else some hax , well his hax is that he abused your friends stupidity
go to mummy and cry
this is not an exploit as i see it , and maybe a darker side to neocron you have to be wary about
And supposing you find a way to change the item in your window without it asking the other person to press OK again? And supposing this also means that if they press info on the item in your window it shows up as a DS instead of the Psi Resistor it actually is? Would it not be exploiting to use that?
Original monk
04-12-03, 19:14
Originally posted by pood
Every time a item in trade gets changed it asks you to press ok again
this is to stop it, you are to stupid to see this you blame some thing else some hax , well his hax is that he abused your friends stupidity
go to mummy and cry
this is not an exploit as i see it , and maybe a darker side to neocron you have to be wary about
i dont like youre style, when everyone keeps it honest and civilized you go talking about crying to mommy...
I ask you politely to discus the subject and not to repeat the same line someone else said a few posts back, this obviously means you dont care, didnt read shit about the post and only wonna mess up things ... not a good way to start out ya see
with all do respect, original
subject being: is it ok to scam people for millions: exploit involved or not (knowing that exploits are always bad mmkay, otherwise they dont call em exploit...)
As long as there are no exploits used, then there is nothing wrong. Just because some people are stupid or careless does not mean other people are in the wrong. Stealing and conning people are all part and parcel of the game, if they become illegal then that's just another step towards the carebear fantasy of "Please KK make it so nothing bad can ever happen to me, protect me from all the bad things with your uber code!"
Originally posted by Scikar
And supposing you find a way to change the item in your window without it asking the other person to press OK again? And supposing this also means that if they press info on the item in your window it shows up as a DS instead of the Psi Resistor it actually is? Would it not be exploiting to use that? Of course either of those situations would be genuine exploits. I'm not aware of either of them really happening though.
N
How bout we suppose that it is what it is.
A quick change up its easy to do, it works and is legal.
ND has classified a term for this type of scamming
We call it Swagging.
Just so it has a name :)
i couldn't agree more, when i traded my SA and filter 2 and ended up with a resistor chip 2 i didnt even bother to DM the guy as i knew he had logged off and it wouldn't even change anything.
what bothers me is u cant do anything about it, i'd just kill him over and over and over etc................................................................................................. .....................................................................
somthing need to be done about the trade window, cuz the guy told me to check, i checked it was a DS, the i press ok, poke it in and realize the scam, i dunno how it happened??
all of 6 month's work, gone, and nothing to do about it.... that ought to make a few people leave... IF only i could know alts of this person i could hope to try and get revenge but here no, nothing
edit: u have nothing to do on this post magnazan, u bastard
You checked it he switched you accpeted.
Trade windo is same as all trade windows Item appears for you to check you click ok, and he removes the item the accpetence is turned off. So allways make sure the item is there and its the item you want before you click accept. Then if accept gets canceled check it again.
Not hard. 8|
All trade windows are the same there only weakness is carelessness
Bit harsh there Fish - Fair comment though ;)
IMHO they should implement mechanics that allows remote repairing of items in the targets processor and remote research in the targets processor, just like with poking. Hell, you could even make remote construction.
There is absolutely no roleplay excuse for stealing techs, swapping techs with melee parts, stealing items you are asked to repair etc. It's all just taking advantage of the shortcommings of the game mechanics. The normal player (not the multi account power gamer) are forced to have to trust "strangers" with their most valued possessions. There is absolutely no system in place to find out if a person is trustworthy other than trial and error, and with the recent popularity of theese scams it feels like people run into more "errors" than not. So what can you do? Ask around on the channels? Every scammer probably has a ton of people standing by to back him up and say he is a honest guy. Every honest tradeskiller probably also has a bunch of assholes standing by to discredit him.
A dark cyberpunk atmosphere does not have anything to do with a free for all scammer paradise.
Shadow Dancer
05-12-03, 03:52
They should take away safezone. :)
That way the bastard scammers don't always have a place to run to and be safe. :p
Original monk
05-12-03, 10:14
I discussed the situation with my mate again extensively, he told me that he kept rightklicking and checking the chip even till the second before he pushed OK, he told me the other guys chip (the SA) jumped away once (and after he put it back in he checked again and kept checking it till the millisecond before he pushed ok) so i dont believe in the fact the scammer yust switched the chips ... not that its impossible ffcourse, but i dont believe it in my friends situation ... im sending every possible info i have about this guy to exploit@neocron, if its a scammer they cant do anything i know, but i doubt it .... think its more dirty ...
The fact that there are so many pro's and con's in the reaction given to this thread proves that the subject is very alive, im making a second account next week, think it would be worth it to make a char specialized in ripping of MC5 chips ?? (sarcastic)
enjoy playing,
When the mods like they can close the thread, i wonna thank you for all youre information and civilized discussing :)
Jesterthegreat
05-12-03, 12:42
for all the people who are saying "omg! you fucktard! this isnt an expoit! you didnt look at your trade window!!1!1" shut the fuck up.
i know people who have checked and rechecked (i know cos i play in a net cafe and have seen this with my own eyes) and yet not got the item that was in the trade window. there is a trade exploit. people do do it. and it is exploiting.
the people who do it should get punished. at least one name pops to mind of someone who i know does this. have a look on the uranus ingame forums and you will see 2 or 3 posts about this particular runner.
its easyer to pull off than you lot think, and tbh original i dout he was checking it every second since to do that you have to open a info box, that possibly covers the chip
Jesterthegreat
05-12-03, 13:01
Originally posted by pood
that possibly covers the chip
you do know you can move the boxes right? O_o
also - if its easier than you think, i assume you know how? email exploits@neocron.com and tell them ffs :D
Original monk
05-12-03, 13:24
Originally posted by pood
its easyer to pull off than you lot think, and tbh original i dout he was checking it every second since to do that you have to open a info box, that possibly covers the chip
its indeed easy to switch chips fastly, but not when the customer keep rightclicking it, and no, my mate trades as long as i do now so that means he knows how to trade after trading for about 1000+ rareweapons and chips :) so the infobox wont cover the chip, he told me he didnt lay he's eyes of the particular chip, so where collecting the screenies we got both + the screenies of him confessing scamming em and we report and see what happens ... did he used an exploit then he gets banned, simple ...
+ this particular scammer gonna get a nice christmaspresent :D
@Mods: close please
There is absolutely no roleplay excuse for stealing techs, swapping techs with melee parts, stealing items you are asked to repair etc. It's all just taking advantage of the shortcommings of the game mechanics. The normal player (not the multi account power gamer) are forced to have to trust "strangers" with their most valued possessions. There is absolutely no system in place to find out if a person is trustworthy other than trial and error, and with the recent popularity of theese scams it feels like people run into more "errors" than not. So what can you do? Ask around on the channels? Every scammer probably has a ton of people standing by to back him up and say he is a honest guy. Every honest tradeskiller probably also has a bunch of assholes standing by to discredit him.
Wow this is so pathetic i don't even know where to begin. In a dark cyberpunk world, you can also break into someone's appartment and steal all of their shit. Do you think it should be impossible to steal in NC? Stealing has to be in SOMEHOW. And if there's a bug, then fine, fix it. BUT you have no right to be protected from your own stupidity.
Originally posted by Futureman
Wow this is so pathetic i don't even know where to begin. In a dark cyberpunk world, you can also break into someone's appartment and steal all of their shit. Do you think it should be impossible to steal in NC? Stealing has to be in SOMEHOW. And if there's a bug, then fine, fix it. BUT you have no right to be protected from your own stupidity.
I wouldn't mind stealing and scamming if there also was some way for people to steal their items back. But there isn't. With the biggest scam out there (tech part swapping) you don't even know that you have been ripped off.
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