View Full Version : When will posts about other MMORPGs be deleted?
Martin J. Schwiezer
03-12-03, 06:26
Okay, there has been a lot of confusion about threads about other MMORPGs that got locked or deleted. I'd like to state our point of view upon these threads:
This forum is well-known for being very "open" and we tolerate a lot of discussions about various MMORPGs out there. We respect, but do not "fear" competition, since we are convinced that the concept behind Neocron is highly unique. Being confident about the fact that Neocron has got its own niche and already is a milestone in the general evolution of MMORPGs grants us the self-confidence to allow posts/discussions about various MMORPGs on our boards.
It's a proven fact that we do allow "free speech" for as long as nobody else's feelings or rights are hurt (this includes KK). Thus there are some aspects that sometimes make us close or even delete threads about other upcomming MMORPGs. These are as follows:
A) If you're not allowed, to post positive aspects about Neocron or comparisms between Neocron and a competitor's MMORPG on the boards of a competitor, then we won't allow posts like that about the competitor's product on our board neither.
B) If a thread was made sticky, where "Neocron refugees" should sign in on a board of a competitor and if on that thread only negative posts about Neocron are tolerated, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
C) If a competitor carefully deletes all positive threads about Neocron on his board in general, but leaves the negative opinions unlocked or undeleted, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
D) If a competitor uses obvious ideas of our board that are copyright protected by Reakktor (e.g. a name for a board section), then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
E) If a competitor _obviously_ steals from Neocron design (textures, look, architectural design, concept, character design etc.) so that his product looks e.g. like Neocron looked two years ago, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
F) If weird comparisons are made between Reakktor and companies where the whole development is based on just one guy (e.g. if that guy is lead-designer, lead programmer and CEO in just one person), then we won't react or answer upon such comparisons... because they are nonsense ;)
G) If one-man-show developers (see above, F) claim to reinvent the MMORPG genre with their "revolutionary upcomming product" by saying that all underlying concepts of all other MMORPGs are a "misconception", while at the same time these developers do not even know when to publish what with whom, then we won't react/answer upon threads about that product for the same reason as stated above.
Just one of the above given reasons would be enough to close/delete a thread. But in 99% of all cases, there need to be at least two of these aspects to give us a reason to close a thread. Unfortunately, there is also at least one product which breaks all of the above stated rules... and therefor threads/posts about that product will be deleted or closed on sight.
If there are still people out there who believe that we delete threads/posts because we're "scared" :rolleyes: of someone else's product(s), then these people did not understand what this whole thread is about... ;)
sticky it MJS or people may not hear the word..... :D
WELL DONE SOLDIER
nicely said
wheres meh DOY
DONT MAKE MEH EAT YOU
O_o
Amen, Brother Martin.
Keepin' it real. I like it!
Can I get an 'Amen' from the congregation?!?!
Originally posted by ElfinLord
Amen, Brother Martin.
Keepin' it real. I like it!
Can I get an 'Amen' from the congregation?!?! Amen! Amen! Amen!
(Can't 1 word post >.<)
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
D) If a competitor uses obvious ideas of our board that are copyright protected by Reakktor (e.g. a name for a board section), then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
E) If a competitor _obviously_ steals from Neocron design (textures, look, architectural design, concept, character design etc.) so that his product looks e.g. like Neocron looked two years ago, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
OWNED!
Oh and fuck yeah! Neocron and it's forums > all
Oh my. I never realised that "this" certain game has done stuff like that. No wonder I ever read anything about Neocron in their forums. :eek:
Business is harsh, even in Geeklandia! You gotta respect MJS in his Armani-powerarmor ;)
Jumpgate>Neocron
*runs off
Originally posted by LVirus
*runs off
*shoots in back*
got him
Dribble Joy
03-12-03, 09:12
mjs = good
bring it on you mofos
Originally posted by Drake6k
*shoots in back*
got him *Drags em off to skin and gut em
;O fried Lvirus anyone?!
OMG! You guys could not do that to me! I even released secret and hidden beta3 screenshots and this is how you reward? o_O
MJS tell em not to cook me!
Originally posted by LVirus
OMG! You guys could not do that to me! I even released secret and hidden beta3 screenshots and this is how you reward? o_O
MJS tell em not to cook me! *Chews on leg* a bit late
Heh, I thought he was joking but I checked out 'another mmorpgs' forums and lo and behold its true, its true. :lol:
[Edit: I removed the direct link - MJS]
>;O WTF'IN ELL >;O SOMEONES FAWKIN POSIN AS ME WTF?!http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/test/uploads/wtfnhell.JPG
>;O for 1, i'd never say lookie, and i'd smack anyone that does >;O
2, ive always used a damn av w/ shujin in it >;O
juvestar15
03-12-03, 10:20
Fucken weasels. They are all sucking up to the gay c*nts in charge over there at FoMK.
"FoMK is the best game ever". Morons haven't even played the game yet. :rolleyes:
Fuck off FoMK. That includes all you loser fanboys that are here.
Originally posted by Shujin
>;O WTF'IN ELL >;O SOMEONES FAWKIN POSIN AS ME WTF?!>;O for 1, i'd never say lookie, and i'd smack anyone that does >;O
2, ive always used a damn av w/ shujin in it >;O
I agree. It cannot be you because :
A. Your eating me atm
B. He wrote english I understand without reading text 100 times
C. MJS don't allow you go there
Awww and see on the first page I posted... That was 8 months ago! I'm sorry! Neocron > all
dont eat me :angel:
GambitFlame
03-12-03, 11:07
One good/bad thing is that most of the refugees have come from Neocron and hardly anyother MMO out there :D
Nicly said MJS
thing is, is it just me or is this thread becoming a spam-a-thon?
~T
If a competitor _obviously_ steals from Neocron design (textures, look, architectural design, concept, character design etc.) so that his product looks e.g. like Neocron looked two years ago, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
Heh but didnt you just do this with Deus Ex / System Shock 2? ;)
Originally posted by evs
Heh but didnt you just do this with Deus Ex / System Shock 2? ;)
Ouch! That hurts... right to the bone....
i basically agree. but fighting censorship with censorship - does that actually work?
oh well - like michael corleone said, it's not personal, just business.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
E) If a competitor _obviously_ steals from Neocron design (textures, look, architectural design, concept, character design etc.) so that his product looks e.g. like Neocron looked two years ago, then we won't allow posts about the competitor's product on our boards.
*Gets the spiked haggis*
Alright...........Lemme at em..............KOS joo mofo's!ieibe
Yar, amen, nice, sex, fick and all other nice words :D
Originally posted by GambitFlame
One good/bad thing is that most of the refugees have come from Neocron and hardly anyother MMO out there :D
Maybe 'cos FoM is a shameless copy of Neocron.
I wouldn't worry about it though as all the people there now singing it's praises said the same good things about Neocron when it was free (beta), new to them and they could "test" all sorts of silliness. As soon as it goes retail and they have to pay real money for a game they are growing tired off and play by real rules they'll start bitching and whining about how the game has been "ruined".:rolleyes:
Lord Mansion
03-12-03, 12:45
Originally posted by evs
Heh but didnt you just do this with Deus Ex / System Shock 2? ;)
Watch out for all the pathetic arse kissers, they don't like criticism.
Originally posted by Lord Mansion
Watch out for all the pathetic arse kissers, they don't like criticism.
I can see a difference between "acknowledging an influence and making something new from it" and "stealing something lock-stock and denying the source".
Interestingly the law recognises this distinction too.
Do i get an "arse kisser" badge or are you full of shit?
Lord Mansion
03-12-03, 12:59
Originally posted by jernau
I can see a difference between "acknowledging an influence and making something new from it" and "stealing something lock-stock and denying the source".
Interestingly the law recognises this distinction too.
Do i get an "arse kisser" badge or are you full of shit?
I don't see the relevance of your post in combination with the text you quoted from my message.
But it seems that you are referring to Face of Mankind.
I do agree that Face of Mankind looks "alot" like Neocron in terms of concept and they can copy almost anything except the atmosphere that Neocron has, which is what makes Neocron a unique game.
Originally posted by Lord Mansion
I don't see the relevance of your post in combination with my quoted text.
But it seems that you are referring to Face of Mankind.
I do agree that Face of Mankind looks "alot" like Neocron in terms of concept and they can copy almost anything except the unique atmosphere that Neocron has.
If I misinterpreted your post then you have my apologies.
Reading that thread on the FoM board made me want to slap someone.
Originally posted by me on FoM board
Still playing NC and unless this game rocks which i doubt it will il be staying with NC.
Stigmata, ND, Saturn
p.s fomk banned from NC forum for aggresive advertising.
NC > FoM
Lord Mansion
03-12-03, 13:04
Originally posted by jernau
If I misinterpreted your post then you have my apologies.
Reading that thread on the FoM board made me want to slap someone.
No problem.
I really don't mind being slapped from time to time.
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 13:05
Originally posted by Lord Mansion
No problem.
I really don't mind being slapped from time to time.
I know baby.
well up untill MJS himself posted this thread. i had thought this forum had turned into another one of those factist state forums. though after reading whats been said i understand why things have happened and agree with it.
hell i've only been away from these boards for a week testing someother beta mmorpg and comeback to this new set of rules. boy does madness set in quick round here.:D
heh lordy :)
@ jernau : im fairly sure he wasnt aiming that at you - so you can lower your defences ;)
there's *more* than a passing reference / influence of deus/sys in nc (hell you even press tab to bring up your status screens)
and a similar drag and drop inventory..... in fact there's tonnes of similarities.
i think neocron even got a lot of its customers due to the fanbase that existed for deus ex / system shock (it was the reason i came to nc myself - as it was the clostest thing to an online 'version' of deus ex)
i can understand the 'if this game slates my game i will banz0r eet!' mentality - but there is such a thing as rising above it.
also i dont think that a certain game created by another german company is a copy of NC.
Looking at it - the only thing it shares is the words 'sci-fi' and 'mmofps'
i think anyone expecting it to be NC2 is going to be bitterly disappointed.
MJS ninja bitch fight pwnage :eek: :lol: :cool:
Defences lowered.
My point is that KK always acknowledged the similarities and seem to be proud of the fact people find the NC world familiar.
Last time I looked at FoM (many months ago now) they seemed to have the same attitude but that sure as hell ain't the case now. They seem to have turned into a bunch of muppets.
Still playing NC ...
Stigmata, ND, Saturn
took them 14 minutes to edit my original post and also remove the post below who flamed me
Originally posted by stigmata
took them 14 minutes to edit my original post and also remove the post below who flamed me
LOL.
Nid and the Nidettes > their mods :p
Originally posted by jernau
Defences lowered.
My point is that KK always acknowledged the similarities and seem to be proud of the fact people find the NC world familiar.
Last time I looked at FoM (many months ago now) they seemed to have the same attitude but that sure as hell ain't the case now. They seem to have turned into a bunch of muppets.
I admit. When I first got there this January, attitude was very different and they looked up to Neocron and was very friendly. Perhaps they didn't think that Neocron could be treath to 'em so they kinda like ignored NC. Now they have changed mind :confused: :eek: :o
Originally posted by jernau
LOL.
Nid and the Nidettes > their mods :p Some of their mods are ok - they were trained here after all. :p
N
Im sorry but the repsonses to this thread are a mojority, such alot of utter bullshit its unbelieveable. FoM is in no way whatsoever comparable to Neocron. I cant be arsed listing why becuase if none of you are interested in actually looking for yourselves then stuff it, Im not going to do it for you.
I can understand Martin's position on the closing of any FoM threads (then he opens one himself which directly references serveral points about it but doesnt actually say it outright O_o) which is fine by me. But you must realise to any outsider, this makes you look bad. Very bad. Especially considering the number of other games referenced and talked about here. It, quite frankly and honestly, make it look as if your scared of it or something. I know you state otherwise, but the action against the threads gives a whole other impression whether intended or not.
I still play NC but crap like this from the community just pisses me off.
I'd also like to piont out the fact that FoM has NOT closed every thread with refrences, good or bad, to Neocron. There is alot FoM is doing tht KK could learn from FoM and vice versa too. These points have been brought up on the FoM boards many many times.
I have both praised POINTS of neocron and slandered for others, the same way that I do here, on FoM boards. eg. Factions are worth shit in NC where FoM is doing it right. NC has a levelling Grind which I hate, FoM wont. Neocron has alot of cool shit in it (ByB, outzone[ond other similar set-pieces], Vehicles) that FoM wont have. the lists go on....
The neocron refugee thread has had many many pissed off old NC players diverting to what looks to be a possibly a better MMO (depending on what youre looking for) and obviously there is going to be "hard" feelings about NC and KK in general. Its predictable and normal human nature. You do not need a psychology degree to know this.
The Refugee thread WAS a sticky for months. It was recently closed and a new general refugee thread opened instead so as not to exclude people coming from elsewhere.
and to Jernau and anyone else agreeing with him. Shame on you for such baseless and outright false statement.
Let em repeat, Im in on FoM in every way, I follow the boards and even help another very well known and respected NC refugee run a FoM fansite.
FoM IS NOT COMPARABLE IN ANY WAY TO NEOCRON, THEY ARE NOT SIMILAR, THEY ARE NOT COPIES, AND WHO F**CKIN CARES ANYWAY.
If your not interested in FoM fine, keep yer stupid comments to yourself. Unless your willing to actually investigate and learn about FoM then you are most unqualified to make any assumption on it.
There is times when i really lose faith in this community. Thanks for making me feel like I just wasted my money be re-activating my account to give NC the other chance it rightfully deserves.
If and when FoM is released you will be able to discuss it to your heart's content. Right now though, such discussion just leads to confusion and ill-will which nobody wants to see.
N
Originally posted by Nidhogg
If and when FoM is released you will be able to discuss it to your heart's content. Right now though, such discussion just leads to confusion and ill-will which nobody wants to see.
N
yes i know, which is why I can understand closages. Anyone saying FoM WILL be better is off theyre heads anyways. Its not even readched Beta stages yet, no one has played, how can you say somethign that you havent played is better!!
In my opinion THE CONCEPT is better(no magic, no levelling, factions having real meaning, player run law enforcement etc tec). but I cant play it yet where I can play this, in which i like the concept too. So what do you think I'm paying for right now? FoM or Nc?
[edit]
Oh yeah, and why would i discuss it here, theres a FoM board i can do that on ;)
I merely reply to threads with my feelings etc. I think Ive opened 4 - 6 new threads since I registered here over a year ago!
/\ what nidhogg said.
I await FoMK with interest but I dont consider it a Neocron beater, especially when it seems to have similar GFX and zoning.
To beat Neocron you have to better it in every way and no mmorpg I've heard of has done or is planning to do that.
Thats one of the reasons why every little thing in this community gets discussed with such heat. Cause its Neocron or nothing.
Dade Murphey
03-12-03, 14:28
You know elric...until posters who were not martin pointed to FoMK...I had no idea he was directing this at that game...or if he particularly was...I can only assume that the other non-martin posters know what he was talking about...so you can't really say shame on him...I don't really keep up with many games...mainly try to keep slightly keep up with Lineage 2, and I know that's nothing like NC...haha...posters are always going to behind what they favor...just like you were saying...you're, I guess I'll say "defensive", because you're into FoMK...the people who post negative to it particularly aren't...no big deal...it'd be like someone telling me that Cowboy Bebop blows...I'd have to think they're morons or just never saw it...haha...rather than bash other games, best thing to do would be purchase another NC acct to support martin and his crew...hahah
Hell...I can agree with most of these guys...I signed up for FoMK beta...but I signed up for alot of betas...so far I've thought they've all blown that I got into...though I'm still holding out for Lineage 2 and a few others...chances are unless FoMK offers something really cool I'll probably stick with NC until I find something that can actually hold my attention longer or I find 72 dancing lawn gnomes, whichever comes first
Mumblyfish
03-12-03, 14:31
Originally posted by Elric
no levelling
What. The. Fuck.
I can't believe I was interested in paying for that :eek:
There is times when i really lose faith in this community. Thanks for making me feel like I just wasted my money be re-activating my account to give NC the other chance it rightfully deserves.
anytime!
NC > FoM
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
What. The. Fuck.
I can't believe I was interested in paying for that :eek:
relies on actual player skills instead. Rather than relying on the cookie cutter setups and powerlevelling to get ahead. Whats wrong with that?
sorry Dade, yer post confused me my real names Martin too, so i got muddled at points ;) )
I think I get what youre saying though. True i can only see the direct references becuase I have been following both FoM and NC and theyre reactions to each other. Maybe yer right.
Im in no way a Fanboi of either NC or FoM. I prefer the concept and possibility of FoM yes, but i can be just as defensive of NC when it comes to people slandering the points i do like about NC. of course I can be equally slanderous of the points of NC that I dont like, thats life though :p
(currently FoM doesnt have any points i dont like, due to the fact i havent played it yet.)
[Edit] STIG DONT BE F**CKIN STUPID!!! How can you say that when you havent played FoM yet???
Oncde youve played then feel free, but till then, please dont make such stupid assiumptions.
And since he's getting away with it I'll add this too (just to annoy ya :P ) FoM > NC :D
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
/\ what nidhogg said.
I await FoMK with interest but I dont consider it a Neocron beater, especially when it seems to have similar GFX and zoning.
though FoMK is using a lithtech engine. so someone there paid a good sum for it.
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 14:41
Originally posted by Elric
[Edit] STIG DONT BE F**CKIN STUPID!!! How can you say that when you havent played FoM yet???
Oncde youve played then feel free, but till then, please dont make such stupid assiumptions.
Holy crap, calm down man. Why are you getting this crazy over "X>Y" comments? Did you develop FOMK? :p
ex-machina
03-12-03, 14:42
Originally posted by Elric
FoM IS NOT COMPARABLE IN ANY WAY TO NEOCRON, THEY ARE NOT SIMILAR, THEY ARE NOT COPIES, AND WHO F**CKIN CARES ANYWAY.
You're right Elric, you're absolutely right. FoM is not at all comparable to Neocron.
Neocron exists afterall.
Dade Murphey
03-12-03, 14:46
you 2 should really stop egging each other on...you're both doing the same shit and as opposed to actually being able to TALK about this shit...it'll just end up getting closed since you 2 are arguing with each...argue in PM's or some such shit...quit being such fanbois :D but elric...you do kind of go against your own arguement...though you haven't played it you don't know that you will like it...you could get in for 5 min and think it's the biggest piece of rubbish ever...just say it's got some killer ideas, you don't see much or any NC in it...and leave it at that...don't egg on those you proclaim as fanbois...nothin's gonna come of it
Originally posted by ex-machina
You're right Elric, you're absolutely right. FoM is not at all comparable to Neocron.
Neocron exists afterall.
currently, precisely right thanks ex.
Shadow m8, Im not a developer no, Hell I wish i had the expertise to do something like an MMO or a game. Its just taht stupid unresearched baseless comments annoy the hell out of me. Really annoy me... especially when its about things I like and am enjoying inputting thoughts and theories into.
I love NC too, its my first MMO (you always remember your first ;) ), but Im not going to make any silly statements like that until i have the full information available to me. and yes,.. i should calm down... thanks...
just like i said, stupidity bugs my nut badly. Maybe a call centre job isnt the best idea for me....
Shadow Dancer
03-12-03, 14:51
Ultima Online was my first mmorpg. Damn I really loved that game. Played it for 3 years. Finally stopped playing due to my CONNECTION and not actually because of boredom. However I have an ubar computer with DSL. I should go back. :D
Originally posted by Elric
just like i said, stupidity bugs my nut badly. Maybe a call centre job isnt the best idea for me....
you could always work for the dole office. i'm sure you'd have a field day.:lol:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Ultima Online was my first mmorpg. Damn I really loved that game. Played it for 3 years. Finally stopped playing due to my CONNECTION and not actually because of boredom. However I have an ubar computer with DSL. I should go back. :D
go for it, I just did it here and am enjoying it again. You'll probably find taht you will still enjoy UO. Plus if anyone is still there that you knew back then, its always nice to visit old friends again.
Originally posted by enablerbr
you could always work for the dole office. i'm sure you'd have a field day.:lol:
:lol: or commit suicide... whichever comes first.!
/edit
SHIT this has been stickied! and im here going all nuts too... damn... there goes me spotless reputation...
/edit2
Sorry Dade, hadnt spotted your response. The whole defending of it etc is in part due to the part you play in a pre beta game state. The concept is there, theres alot of design to look at, we can still post positive input and suggestions into the game itself. If merely ONE thing, that I as a future player, was ever implemented into the game that I had suggested from these stages, it would feel like part of my own. its all in the feelings unfortunately and theyre a volatile in all of us at the best of times. yes, I'll admit after re-reading I do shoot myself in the foot on a few points, butr thats mostly due to getting slightly towards ranting and frustration... i have calmed down now.
For the time being NC > all other released MMO's (sorry but there is plenty of better single player games out there or online FPS that are non-MMO ;) ). But saying that NC> a game that isnt even released yet, is silly, and silly gets me annoyed. and since i have a positive interest in the future of mentioned game, its that little bit more personal.
Originally posted by Elric
relies on actual player skills instead. Rather than relying on the cookie cutter setups and powerlevelling to get ahead. Whats wrong with that?
Nothing really.. sounds more like Planetside clone. Prehaps they can go spam thier boards instead.
What inquriing minds really want to know is will they have fetus-o-paults and can you dig horizontally? ;)
Originally posted by Archeus
Nothing really.. sounds more like Planetside clone. Prehaps they can go spam thier boards instead.
What inquriing minds really want to know is will they have fetus-o-paults and can you dig horizontally? ;)
Nah, not a planetside clone. Planetside still has requirments and skill leveling.
and, what and what???
Wait for the FoMK beta to be released, then you all can wiggle your asses, and say "LOL HURR HURR NC WAS BETAR THEN FOMK, HURR HURR, FOMK, MORE LIEK, SUCK, HURR HURR HURR NC>FoMK LOL HURR HURR" or vice versa.
No one has seen FoMk in motion, no one has any experience of the atmosphere, no one has nothing, except the concept, the theoretical ideas, etc etc.
"OMG FOMK IS DEOLPING A CYBERFUNK GAME, THEY STOLE THE WHOLE IDEA, WHAT NO LEVELING SOUNDS LIKE PLANETSIDE, LOL IT CANT BE A RPG THEN WITHOUT A SKILL SYSTEM LOL, WHAT TRUE FPS, LOL ITS CS OR PLANETSIDE LOL, I AM SOO COOL AND HOT"
Originally posted by Duder
Wait for the FoMK beta to be released, then you all can wiggle your asses, and say "LOL HURR HURR NC WAS BETAR THEN FOMK, HURR HURR, FOMK, MORE LIEK, SUCK, HURR HURR HURR NC>FoMK LOL HURR HURR" or vice versa.
No one has seen FoMk in motion, no one has any experience of the atmosphere, no one has nothing, except the concept, the theoretical ideas, etc etc.
"OMG FOMK IS DEOLPING A CYBERFUNK GAME, THEY STOLE THE WHOLE IDEA, WHAT NO LEVELING SOUNDS LIKE PLANETSIDE, LOL IT CANT BE A RPG THEN WITHOUT A SKILL SYSTEM LOL, WHAT TRUE FPS, LOL ITS CS OR PLANETSIDE LOL, I AM SOO COOL AND HOT"
:lol:
On those points. FoM is Science Fiction / cyberpunk in my view where NC is Post Apocalypse / Cyberpunk. Last I noticed NC hadnt copyrighted the term Cyberpunk so :p
Planetside still has levelling, FoM is more alnog the lines of the FPS games were all used to, pick up a gun and use it to the best of your ability and where the weapon fits the situation (al'a Max Payne). Who said there had to be skill levelling to make an RPG? A bunch of numbers on your avatar doesnt change how you can interact with the world presented to you. some of the small points which drift NC and FoM apart even more.
I realise Duder that yer taking the piss on the last statement but It made me think of the above there.
When FoM is released, then we'll see what one is better.
Elric don't want to talk about FOMK here :) I might post the question on thier boards.
I find this thread 'amusing' to say the least.
never understood brand loyalty - or why people instantly get their defences up when someone appears to be attacking or questioning a choice they have made.
Happens all the time
Someone buys a pentium 4, a new amd chip is released , - they rubbish the new chip even though they have no idea how good it is.
Seems similar here, NC looks like it has a competitor on the horizon, and instantly rubbish it before even testing it.
Again i think its a case of an automatic reaction to an insecurity of personal made choices.
I think some people should perhaps look at why they are rubbishing something they have no experience of.
[Edit] STIG DONT BE F**CKIN STUPID!!! How can you say that when you havent played FoM yet???
Oncde youve played then feel free, but till then, please dont make such stupid assiumptions.
Kos Elric flaming me, *walks off to complain about being labelled an idiot*
It was placed their to annoy
Originally posted by stigmata
Kos Elric flaming me, *walks off to complain about being labelled an idiot*
It was placed their to annoy
lol, sorry, I'll admit you got to me... :p
Although my personal taste for Neocron has worn off, the KK team are doing a bloody excellent job. Producing a MMORPG really is no easy task and hassling them without productive comments only makes the task harder.
I will probably come back to the game just after christmas but I must say the recent patches (with huge bugfixes and game adjustments) are truly impressive.
Good work MJS and good work KK, I would also like to say that MJS' more common appearance on the boards is a welcome change.
Mingoo
agreed on all of the above.
i can honestly say taht when i left about 4 to 5 patches ago i was crashing regularly.
Since i reactivated about a week ago, I have crashed 3 times now. and thats with 8+ hours playing last weekend and probably about 4+ hours a night when Ive been working. It is most commendable that they have finally fixed some of these most serious of issues.
and seeing MJS about is nice yes.
Originally posted by evs
Seems similar here, NC looks like it has a competitor on the horizon, and instantly rubbish it before even testing it.
Try reading the first post before replying.
I don't have a problem with MMORPG discussion, but not when it is just a hidden method to advertise said product, especially when said product doesn't allow it there.
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 17:04
ONOZ! MJS will have to delete his own post as all people have done is talk about the MMORPG in question... cant you people just accept that
1. the game has some major differences and should not be compared
2. MJS says dont talk about it... dont talk about it these forums are a privilage - not a right (these are free forums - not included in your subscription)
i dont see the issue here...
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
ONOZ! MJS will have to delete his own post as all people have done is talk about the MMORPG in question
Damnit, i been rumbled :p it was all a plan to get him to close his own post!! (hehe, joking.. but the subject matter and other posts enticed me to talk of the other german rpg in development...)
1. the game has some major differences and should not be compared
Exactly what i been saying :)
2. MJS says dont talk about it... dont talk about it these forums are a privilage - not a right (these are free forums - not included in your subscription)
i dont see the issue here...
em... the community forums are actually not accesible unless you have an account for the game. So that basically translates as we ARE paying to post here. hence why you have to bind your ingame account details to your forum details which i assume is still required.
so in your terms, the forum is a right we have since we're paying for it?
I dunno, i do see it as a privelage in the way that KK dont HAVE to run this forum, they just do. There'd be a huge uproar if they actually closed it tho.
however, since we do pay for the privelage then technically it should be our right to bitch n moan if we feel so inclined ;)
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 17:15
only certain areas are customers only - it is a public forum with customer (rooms? threads? areas?)
and i know 90% is custoner related - but its an optional forum. kk dont have to run it, you dont have to come here, its not part of the NC terms and conditions that you will have access to an official neocron forum.
so yeah it is a privilage
:edit: first one to post Danae in a NC>FoMK thong gets a cookie! ONOZ!
j/k :p
[TgR]KILLER
03-12-03, 17:15
NC > ALL thats it.. hey MJS.. since we made those NC > SGW chothing why not do the same now ? :p *grins* i gues thongs would do good..
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
NC > ALL thats it.. hey MJS.. since we made those NC > SGW chothing why not do the same now ? :p *grins* i gues thongs would do good..
I doubt a direct reference to FoM ona thong style thing would be suitable.
For one main point, all of the variations of FoM etc are used in the official site thus under the copyright of the said website. I imagine using it in a derogatory way such as that would probably be legally ... inadvisable ...
(I dont know how they managed to get away with teh SWG thing either mind you, I thought KK would get screwed on that one.)
just guessing, Im no law expert or anything.
anyways, its another issue of a point of view, how can you knwo it better or worse without trying out both things.
Like My wife telling me she hates the taste of ... actually nevermind that bit ... when she's never tried it ;)
Okay, there has been a lot of confusion about threads about other MMORPGs that got locked or deleted. I'd like to state our point of view upon these threads:
This forum is well-known for being very "open" and we tolerate a lot of discussions about various MMORPGs out there. We respect, but do not "fear" competition, since we are convinced that the concept behind Neocron is highly unique. Being confident about the fact that Neocron has got its own niche and already is a milestone in the general evolution of MMORPGs grants us the self-confidence to allow posts/discussions about various MMORPGs on our boards.
It's a proven fact that we do allow "free speech" for as long as nobody else's feelings or rights are hurt (this includes KK). Thus there are some aspects that sometimes make us close or even delete threads about other upcomming MMORPGs. These are as follows:
:D Very good!
Who poked MJS with the reinforced CEO spine level 2?:p
First rule of a good sales-person: Never ever put a competitors product down. Customers will wonder why...;)
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 17:22
Originally posted by Elric
I doubt a direct reference to FoM ona thong style thing would be suitable.
For one main point, all of the variations of FoM etc are used in the official site thus under the copyright of the said website. I imagine using it in a derogatory way such as that would probably be legally ... inadvisable ...
(I dont know how they managed to get away with teh SWG thing either mind you, I thought KK would get screwed on that one.)
just guessing, Im no law expert or anything.
anyways, its another issue of a point of view, how can you knwo it better or worse without trying out both things.
AFAIK you cannot copyright an abriviation (IE FoMK / NC / SW:G / EQ / UO / AO) but i may be wrong.
Like My wife telling me she hates the taste of ... actually nevermind that bit ... when she's never tried it ;)
O_o
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
AFAIK you cannot copyright an abriviation (IE FoMK / NC / SW:G / EQ / UO / AO) but i may be wrong. [b]
O_o
aah you could be right, personally i have no idea and dont currently have the inclination to try and decipher law documentation.
Anyways, you'd just end up in a thong war doing it. with the amount of ex-NC players over there someone else would be bound to do the opposite and market it too.
and . no comment...
Jesterthegreat
03-12-03, 17:28
Originally posted by Elric
Anyways, you'd just end up in a thong war doing it. with the amount of ex-NC players over there someone else would be bound to do the opposite and market it too.
can i be judge? ladies only please...
Originally posted by Elric
and to Jernau and anyone else agreeing with him. Shame on you for such baseless and outright false statement.
Last time I checked I have as much right to have and state my own opinion as anyone else here does.
My opinion from some (not a lot I admit) time spent looking into FoM is as I stated. I can't be that many miles off-base as others feel the same way.
As for the fact FoM isn't out yet - that's true but I was following NC for nearly a year before I got into beta and I new quite a lot about it when I did get in. I haven't followed FoM anywhere near as closely but I do have a fair idea of what's coming. I think it has a lot of promise and none of my comments were aimed at the game itself.
Yeah I know. That was me hitting the rant stages... nm tho. I leave you all to your own opinions. I have mine which i believe ive stated enough already and im sure MJS dont want to see me ranting over the other game in his thread.
Just defending something I feel that deserves defended,
same as NC does elsewhere and giving NC its other chance by re-activating. I cant deny it has become more stable and Im enjoying it.
Well he's stickied it so he can't be that anti-discussion. ;)
Um Elric... Here's the facts as I see them.
When I first read te FoMK blurb on the site many months ago, it said that it was the first proposed FPS MMORPG EVAR! That soon changed of course.
It changed to a different version of what it is now
They rely on a brainport, altogether nothing different - after all there are only so many names you can give something.
The official FoMK folk who blurbed on the forums constantly were vehimently anti-NC, whilst officials here are pro-choice gamers.
Never once did a person here get slandered by those up top for saying "FoMK is better", but in the early days of the FoMK forums, it was easy to see the opposite - I was banned for talking about NC is a positive light, and questioning some proposed similarities between the two.
Hell, in these forums you can say "Blah, Blah blah this game looks like that, blah blha!" And you won't get freakin' banned. In fact you'll probably get a response.
The mods in their forums aggressively hunt down anything Pro-NC and quash it. They don't just close the thread, THEY CHANGE IT TO MAKE FUTURE READERS THINK NOTHING HAPPENED. The censorship style that MJS is now calling for can't be compared. Sure, closing them, etc.
Anyway, perhaps if the FoMK volunteers/employees were more mature in how they handled themselves publicly, things would be different now.
Originally posted by Archeus
Try reading the first post before replying.
Please read my posts in the context and the flow of the thread in future.
The comments were centered around various people rubbishing a game over another which they have never experienced.
Thank you.
Originally posted by Marx
Um Elric... Here's the facts as I see them.
ok then here we go again... this is just my response to these as a follower remember. and opinions of mine.
When I first read te FoMK blurb on the site many months ago, it said that it was the first proposed FPS MMORPG EVAR! That soon changed of course.
never seen this. Its likely that they didnt actually know of NC at the time, and from what Ive heard, FoM WAS in development first, NC just got finished faster. thats a rumour Ive heard, may or may not be accurate. In my view it is going to be the first TRULY fps rpg. More along the lines of FPS mechanics (meaning no skills, anyone using whatever they fancy, no "stats" or limitation sto what you can do etc) tho, not viewpoint and play style, which of course NC got first as far as i know.
They rely on a brainport, altogether nothing different - after all there are only so many names you can give something.
True, almost every beta everywheer has had something like this at some point so Im not really sure why you mention it.
The official FoMK folk who blurbed on the forums constantly were vehimently anti-NC, whilst officials here are pro-choice gamers.
Never once did a person here get slandered by those up top for saying "FoMK is better", but in the early days of the FoMK forums, it was easy to see the opposite - I was banned for talking about NC is a positive light, and questioning some proposed similarities between the two.
Hell, in these forums you can say "Blah, Blah blah this game looks like that, blah blha!" And you won't get freakin' banned. In fact you'll probably get a response.
The mods in their forums aggressively hunt down anything Pro-NC and quash it. They don't just close the thread, THEY CHANGE IT TO MAKE FUTURE READERS THINK NOTHING HAPPENED. The censorship style that MJS is now calling for can't be compared. Sure, closing them, etc.
Thats just untrue. I have brought up points of NC alot. I have not been banned nor chastised in any ways for it. We talk of other games all the time. other MMO's, other FPS's, other elements of various games and how an aspect of that may work in FoM.. this just doesnt ring true to me from current experience, sorry.
Give me the name of the mod who banned you and I'll ask for their end of the story too so i can decide. what was your username on that board?
Anyway, perhaps if the FoMK volunteers/employees were more mature in how they handled themselves publicly, things would be different now.
They are as mature and measured as I find KK staff and volunteers to be. I have no problem with them whatsoever. Your experience may differ, but that is mine.
Name: Marxehpoo
Mod name: Damned if I remember, this was like, 5+ months ago...
... During that period of time a number of Pro-NC people were banned from the forums, I felt it in running with their moderators character and frankly, haven't thought of ever looking at the game. I was frankly turned off by it, and pissed.
I have brought up points of NC alot. I have not been banned nor chastised in any ways for it
My question to you it this - When did you start posting? They're more polite and 'measured' now than they were many months ago.
Your experience may differ, but that is mine.
Great, you experienced them being polite people, I experienced them being complete assholes. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
i didnt say it didnt happen :p
it seems awfully extreme for the current team to have done, but I guess its before i started to post there (from June this year).
I dont blame you for being turned off by that kind of action, I would have been too.
Its certainly got me curious though, I'm a gonna look into this.
i myself am still wondering if i should join
Brotherhood of the Shadows (aka the Brotherhood)
Guardians of Mankind (aka the Guardians)
Mercenaries of the blood (aka the Mercenaries)
ever had the feeling of a déja vue? what?
ever had the feeling of a déja vue?
what?
oh shit it's happening again :D :p
PM'd response to Marx to retain a sense of privacy around his issues.
I dont believe it is essential to be viewed here, but If you (Marx) believes it is ok then feel free to post it here or respond here or via PM.
(just posted so that it doesnt look like I ignored him or anything)
Be quiet Elric, as soon as you quiet down some closeminded fellow, another one comes along! :p
Martin J. Schwiezer
03-12-03, 19:21
@elric: I got a couple of PMs from people who were trying to discuss the pros and cons of both concepts on the board of "that other project". As soon as they got into stating that NC is a brilliant product, the posts were either edited/modified, deleted or at least locked. That's a fact. I still have the PMs, so I got a legal proof for that statement.
I think that generally it should be allowed to use "freedom of speech" on every board for as long as feelings and/or rights of other parties than the poster himself remain undamaged. This should be a basic rule for _every_ board out there and sums up all there is about the so called netiquette.
We owe "freedom of speech" a lot, since most of our gamers came here through "word by mouth" propaganda and therefor through liberal discussion boards of some of our competitors.
It is also a known and proven fact that other MMORPGs may be discussed freely upon our boards. Some of them are direct competitors to Neocron and some of them are just completely different MMORPGs. However, we DO NOT support products (or free speech about them), which fall under the clauses mentioned in my starting post of this thread.
Freedom of speech is a two-way street... it's a "give a little" and "take a little" game. If these basics are ignored and if the fear of competition lets a discussion board turn into a company- or product propaganda board, then we will take measures not to become a marionette in someone else's propaganda plans.
Elric wrote on 03-12-03 16:56:
well, i had a looky.
Couldnt find your username there at all. There was one similar to your name there, but not the one you said.
Put any conspiracy theories behind it you want, and I know what the answer to my PM's is, but from my experience with the FoM mod and dev team, I suspect this didnt happen.
Of course I could be wrong as I have to surmise from the available information.
Not saying your lying or anything Marx if you say it happened then maybe it did, but i cant find any irrevocable proof so its your word against theirs. that kind of disputed evidence wouldnt stand up in court, and it wont stand up with me without solid proof.
Theres only one person who can delete user entries and ban people. He says it never happened. I believe him due to the fact I know him better than most people here (yes I have talked to the mod's and dev's on several occasions on a personal basis).
Same as if it had been Rince or Duder or Kyle or Lexxy or one of the other many people I know very well from NC making the accusation, I would believe them first.
Thought It would be better to PM this response, as you may not appreciate it on the board itself.
Sorry for the bad news bud.
I'm not suprised. First off it's not unusual for banned users ID's to be deleted during forum overhauls or simply to free up space after months of 'bannage'
Second, being the conspiracy buff I am, based on the responses I've received from the people in question before 'bannage', I wouldn't be suprised if my account was deleted after awhile - After all, it's bad publicity if people can look back on your member list and see a good number of them banned.
*shrug*
I don't know the circumstances involved with it but frankly, don't care either way.
Simply I've no interest in the game after the treatment received; even though at first I was whole-hog into it - In regards to the post, I support MJS's point; because I've no doubt that he's seen the 'bad' side of the folk in question as well.
Edit - Forgot to PM this. But tell me, does you 'friend have a working knowledge of minute things done around 7-8 mo. previous?
;)
Hi MJS, nice to see you frequenting again.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, free speech should be allowed everywhere.
Closure of NC topics on FoM are when they are outright making no constructive element to the discussions and its simply an invite to a flame fest, much like your own Keep t Ingame rules about clan stuff. Or if the same subject has already been covered elsewhere.
NC is a great concept too and a good product. (I wouldnt say brilliant, it has its flaws as most games do) that cant really be denied and since its the only MMO Im currently playing and the only MMO Ive been involved in from beta. I do reference it alot on the FoM boards too. I have never been chastised for it, but then my posts are usually relevant to the subject at hand.
Yes the NC refugees got closed, but they did not wipe any NC discussions and even opened another general refugee (so as not to exclude people from other games) board which NC people still post in.
I'd say from a personal point of view its a bit of a harsh stance to take. Its your boards and your game tho, so its not like Im going to stop you.
FoM seems quite capable of marketing theyre own product without resorting to "marketing" it on another MMO's forum. All you have seen is the voice of people who are looking forward to a new game, which may or may not be similar to NC depending on who is looking at it. (im a not similar person myself)
people leave MMO's every day and get pissed at things or get the "grass is greener" syndrome all the time. Sometimes hard feelings come along with this. If they find something new which they think looks better theryre going to try to rub it in a little. thats all you see here with both the negativity that you see from SOME people on FoM forums and promotion of it here. it works the other way too. I have praised NC in some FoM posts and slandered it here. I even told a friend to try out NC, I thought he'd like it, but to watch FoM aswell, cos its looking interesting.
Just wantiong to get my point of view on this whole messy matter across. I think thats enough from me for the time being. youre probably all sick of reading the long posts anyways.
Good discussing it with you all tho. perhaps more later eh? ;)
Originally posted by Marx
Edit - Forgot to PM this. But tell me, does you 'friend have a working knowledge of minute things done around 7-8 mo. previous?
;)
absolutley 100% without a doubt intamately yes.
absolutley 100% without a doubt intamately yes.
*shrug*
Then I guess I'm wrong. Without a doubt 100% wrong, Did I say FoMK forums?! I guess I meant the ... KMoF forums.
o_O
thats what i like about this forum - freedom of speech and whatever u want to talk about provided its in the limits. I mean i read about ppl bitching, moaning (no offence but some of you guys are worse than kids lol j/k) or discussing about the game, their problems with their computer or whatever it is, recent events and generally making people feel more aware of whats going on with neocron.
I are impressed, this is what you call customer service...... well its a start :angel:
my post where i said "HI QD HAPPY BDAY" in the FoMK boards got deleted :o
Good posts Martin and I think its definitely a valid move. As for me, I am very much looking forward to trying out FoMK, but who knows where I will end up, perhaps even both. I have no immediate plans to leave Neocron as I think this game is awesome. The statement that the two games can't be compared to each other however, is ridiculous. They CAN and WILL. FoMK is perhaps the single most similiar game to Neocron on the market. Neocron has lost some players and even some mods to FoMK. How can you say they aren't comparable?
And I don't care how good FoMK is, even if I one day leave to play it instead, Martin will always own all. ;) I want you to have my babies Martin!!!!
Man I can never be ill again. I miss far too much ;)
Before we reach the point of no return I'm closing this up. People now know why the threads are not allowed and will hopefully respect that. If you want to discuss it further with MJS his Private Message box is open and I'm sure he will return a good portion of those private messages if sent. However I don't see any good reason with keeping it open except to breed an unneccessary flame war. Although I do envision NC > FoMK shirts soon since MJS always knows how to provoke a mini stroke in me ;)
Martin J. Schwiezer
03-12-03, 20:29
Originally posted by Jest
FoMK is perhaps the single most similiar game to Neocron on the market. Neocron has lost some players and even some mods to FoMK. How can you say they aren't comparable? Uhmmm... I guess the biggest and most obvious difference between Neocron and the project you mentioned is the fact that only one of these two products exists. So how do you want to "compare" them?
Everything else has been said in my starting thread. Go back to the first page and read it carefully... Then you may find out where I am coming from.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.