View Full Version : Why does KK take so long to fix imbalance issues? And what's with useless items?
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 23:15
This isn't a flame thread, an insult, or anything bad against KK. I just have a sincere question, so DON'T FLAME ME, but why does KK take forever to solve major imbalance issues? I mean MAJOR imbalance issues.
I guess i'm talking about mostly PvP. I mean let's take mc5, there was a point when people somehow were getting chips too easily, or were somehow exploiting, etc... and that "problem" was fixed quickly.
Wasn't there a patch that had "medium quality" rares dropping from normal mobs? I couldn't confirm that though, I wasn't playing that day.
I'm sure if there was some bug where all 120/120 mobs suddenly had 10 HP, KK would fix it asap!
But why does KK leave these major PvP issues for so long? Let's take a look at the monk HYBRID problem. I mean hybrid were really really bad, in terms of what you could do with them and how powerful they were. Taking on 3+ people and winning. Yet KK take FOREVER to finally "fix" that problem. And the thing is, IMO they took on the sledgehammer approach after such a long time.
You would think that such a long time with this major problem, they would have come up with a better solution. It really didn't seem like they put THAT much time into it, IMO. So why then take so long? I understand they have other things to do and work on, that's why I said MAJOR imbalance issues. I don't mean crappy int gain for monks, or some other issue that's not that big. I mean the REAL DEAL.
Let's look at the current issue. Monkacron. Hell even if you think there's nothing wrong with ppu/apus/hybrids/epus/FBI/CIA you have to recongise something is wrong when 95% of people at op wars are monks. C'mon now, now that's the truth. And don't give me this bs about how one time you went to a fight with lots of tanks. I mean in general it's like 90% monks. So you gotta know SOMETHING is wrong. Not to mention all the constant threads and posts about the monk situation. And it only seems like just 2 weeks ago(or whenver the test monk patch was put on TS) it looks like their finally gonna do something about it.
I just wonder why KK takes so long to fight these MAJOR imbalance issues in PvP? Please don't flame. :p
Another issue..............
What the hell is up with all these useless/underpowered rares and items? GRRRRR. That's like one of my biggest pet peeves in any game, single or multiplayer. I CAN'T STAND underpowered/useless/NEAR useless items or skills. Like the freezer rares, recycle skill, NORMAL catharsis spell. WHY WHY WHY are these things in here?
WHY is the wyatt earp STILL crap after all this time? WHY is there a NORMAL antibuff spell that takes like 32740273843 mana? AND it's a rare, if it was storebought it would be differnet. That's like having 2 Cursed Soul rares of the same TL, except one just does more damage.
Why can't you just REMOVE the crap or put them in "stasis"(removing them temporarily) until you decide to balance them, boost them, or just remove them. I can't believe the sheer amount of crap in the rareparts pool that IS STILL IN THE POOL TO THIS DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY is psi resist STILL THERE? WHY is there a pa4? Just for looks? Because the gimpitude doesn't even justify wearing it. Only the cool black color does. WHY is there an endurance skill? Does anyone actually put points to that? WHY is melee or droning so "weak"? Or whatever. Please to you ONE or TWO melee/droners don't give me crap about how it's ok. When you can NAME all the melee tanks and droners by memory, you know something is wrong. How could you leave an entire CLASS so weak or borked or whatever for such a long period of time? I just don't get it. It reminds me of those MAJOR combat bugs that affected classes in Baldur's gate II, which weren't fixed for a long time. I mean wtf!!!!!!!11111
WHY???????????????
:p
I just want to know why. This isn't a "nerf" thread ok? lol. I simply want to know WHY?
*looks up into the sky and screams......*
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY???
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 23:19
What?
:confused:
nonamebrandeggs
01-12-03, 23:22
I often compare myself to KK when I'm doing homwork.
Cuz I put in barely any effort and just want the passing mark.
Thats what they seem to do, they put in minimal effort and get just enough customers.
Originally posted by Rade
Fucking kangaroos...
nerf them !
droms > kangaroos
Mumblyfish
01-12-03, 23:33
Originally posted by Rade
Fucking kangaroos...
whatev
Spectra260
01-12-03, 23:37
continuation school > you
(we have no homework :) )
ok, you make some points
I think the reason why player balancing takes so long is cause it's so touchy. it's hard to tell exactly what the root of an imbalance is -- if there even is one.
for example -- for a long time everyone is going on about monk-o-cron and there have been some complaints about pistol PEs. but you know what -- on fight night at the battledome 90% of the fights were CS tanks. I even brought my libby pistol PE out against a tank and he wasted me. how ? he has 120 handling on his CS, aiming implants in, a decent HC buff, and he didn't suck. The guy could run, aim, and shoot very very well.
watching all those tank battles made me rethink the current conventional wisdom on tanks --- a little.
I'm not trying to change the worlds mind about a poitn of balance here, I'm just trying to show how touchy it is.
endurance though ? very necessary, especially for pvp. when you run and shoot your endurance goes down like mad. it's a big problem for tanks using any sort of rapid fire wepon. so much so that kk is thinking of altering it, for tanks I think.
as for other stuff
some good points
that crahn antibuff, what like 365 mana ? and it takes like 10 seconds to cast ? and the range is even shit. how usefull is that ? about the only thing I can think of is for speeding up the killing of a ppu by a team of people. in order to cast it I would have to have a ppu watching my butt and my target would have to be frozen.
and that black tank armor, jeeze -- it ought to give you HC and WL of the gods for how much it costs to wear.
---------------------
I would like to see some devpost on some of these though
I agree with the points you are making.
Only one thing, I think it is not a matter of monks being too strong or anything, enough nerfing has been done with monks, don't destroy a char type that is a lot of fun to play for a lot of people.
I think the problem is that perhaps other chars are too weak.
Like the tank. Melee is a joke and I am not doing it because it is a waste of time even though I like melee.
And really, the only decent weapon for a tank is the CS and 1) there are not enough parts for it to go around 2)it is 95% possible that once you have all the parts you end up with a no slot one - I have one it is pretty useless
We need an alternative for the CS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason the PvP balance issues take so long to fix is actually pretty simple; KK wants to keep as many customers happy as possible, however PvP is something sensitive in multiple ways, you take it one way and half the community likes it, while the other half hates it, then you take it the other way again, and once again, an equal amount of people hate and like it.
Um, anyway. To give a slight point, to this, and make it seem less rambling.
KK wants happy customers; good balance makes happy customers that's for certain. But messed up balancing get's a lot of unhappy customers, so generally KK takes a bunch of months to try and figure out what's the best according to the community.
For example, the hybrid solution made a while ago was actually liked by most of the community, so this was implemented after it'd been discussed quite a bit. However, it took quite a while before this was implemented, which was due to KK wanting to make sure that people liked it.
Most likely, one of the Monkocron solutions which has been posted will be implemented at one point, but KK'd first like to have a whole bunch of different ideas and discuss them internally, then implement the idea they (and the community) liked best.
---
As for the useless items, I can't answer that. All I can say is, post suggestions as how to change them to be useful, KK might be listening.
why? because people like you do nothing but bitch and bitch and bitch. when something finally happens, you jump for joy for about 15 minutes, and then go back and bitch. [ edited for violation of the forum rules - offensive ] you (and others with the same mindset) are the biggest problem with these forums. this isnt a nerf thread-- no shit, this is a slap in KK's face. They nerfed hybrids over and over and over and over again for months upon months. and finally they did what had to be done to make pures useful... obliterate the fucking hybrids. now hybrids are gone-- are you bitching and moaning again? yes. were you quiet for 15 minutes after the hybrid nerf? yes. will you bitch and moan about everything all the god damn time? yes.
divide, though i really dont like you ingame, i think im starting to like you on the forum :)
some valid points divide, but i still dont think SD is as bad as helen :p
Originally posted by Anna
divide, though i really dont like you ingame, i think im starting to like you on the forum :) So do you like me yet Anna? :lol: :(
SD I think part of the reason KK takes so long in fixing major game issues is that they are busy working on other major games issues. There is a lot to fix and work on. Not every one has the same idea about what should be fixed or considered number 1 importance. For example where as I might be concerned with the imbalance of monks in PvP, other players may think the biggest issue is lack of content.
And I know you know this, but you just have to realize that the code for this type of game is complex. You can't just set the balancePvP variable equal to true. My favorite example is when they decided to increase pistol damage but ended up nerfing the rest of the gun on accident. That was caused by fixing the problem too fast. (Well even though it took 8 months to do).
And I also concur, no one is as bad as Helen. She is the only person I had on ignore and every time I decided to go ahead and read her posts any ways I ended up banging my head against the desk till I went unconcious.
Originally posted by Anna
divide, though i really dont like you ingame, i think im starting to like you on the forum :)
err thanks, but I dont have a clue who you are in game
And I also concur, no one is as bad as Helen. She is the only person I had on ignore and every time I decided to go ahead and read her posts any ways I ended up banging my head against the desk till I went unconcious.
so you mean to tell me that the daily nerf this, balance that, bitch and moan at this threads that come from SD dont make you feel like doing the same?
Vampire222
02-12-03, 00:40
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
FLAME ME
WHY is melee or droning so "weak"? Or whatever.
Please to you ONE or TWO melee/droners don't give me crap about how it's ok.
lol. I got bored with one of my characters and lomed my droner to a melee/droner.
So far I have only killed one monk with melee.
Nerf the melee/droner spys.
Originally posted by Divide
err thanks, but I dont have a clue who you are in game
and i intend to keep it that way :D
@ jest ... doubtfull as your clan tries to kill me everytime i want to visit the phoenix shop in th (and yes visit, not pk, ive never seen the shop and im curious about it :()
Cruzbroker
02-12-03, 01:44
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cerberus/kuvat/neocron/droms.jpg
:rolleyes:
good night
Originally posted by Cruzbroker
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cerberus/kuvat/neocron/droms.jpg
:rolleyes:
good night Wow cool, a hand to hand spy, you win many fights with that setup? :p
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 02:29
Can you guys stop spamming my thread?
Originally posted by J. Folsom
But messed up balancing get's a lot of unhappy customers, so generally KK takes a bunch of months to try and figure out what's the best according to the community.
Sorry man, I just don't buy this. This is my point, a couple of months only to end up sledgehammering the class into near extinction? THAT'S what took a couple of months? Oh c'mon, the problem isn't THAT complex. I guess I disagree. :p
If they took allllllllllllllll the long damn time to finally come up with a kickass solution which made hybrids very viable(realisticly viable, ok Rade? :p) and balanced them, then I wouldn't mind. But jeez.
Originally posted by NeoChick
And really, the only decent weapon for a tank is the CS and 1) there are not enough parts for it to go around 2)it is 95% possible that once you have all the parts you end up with a no slot one - I have one it is pretty useless
We need an alternative for the CS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I disagree with your view on monks, hehe, but I do agree with this. First of all, I don't give a damn who says that all rare parts are equally rare. That's bull, I just can't believe it. From my experience CS and Pain Easer parts for some odd reason are much much much more rare than other parts. And i've gotten over 500 parts in my whole career, from just hunting.
Not only that, but I've gotten lots of my own parts for my own psi spells. And PSI ultima actualy adds damage AND you don't need ammo mod for psi rares. So that's a double whammy right there. I remember one time going through hell to CST a silent hunter. And it came out to 0 slot with really bad stats. That kind of **** shouldn't even happen with rare weps.
Originally posted by J. Folsom
But messed up balancing get's a lot of unhappy customers, so generally KK takes a bunch of months to try and figure out what's the best according to the community.
Sorry man, I just don't buy this. This is my point, a couple of months only to end up sledgehammering the class into near extinction? THAT'S what took a couple of months? Oh c'mon, the problem isn't THAT complex. I guess I disagree. :p
If they took allllllllllllllll the long damn time to finally come up with a kickass solution which made hybrids very viable(realisticly viable, ok Rade? :p) and balanced them, then I wouldn't mind. But jeez.
Originally posted by NeoChick
And really, the only decent weapon for a tank is the CS and 1) there are not enough parts for it to go around 2)it is 95% possible that once you have all the parts you end up with a no slot one - I have one it is pretty useless
We need an alternative for the CS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I disagree with your view on monks, hehe, but I do agree with this. First of all, I don't give a damn who says that all rare parts are equally rare. That's bull, I just can't believe it. From my experience CS and Pain Easer parts for some odd reason are much much much more rare than other parts. And i've gotten over 500 parts in my whole career, from just hunting.
Not only that, but I've gotten lots of my own parts for my own psi spells. And PSI ultima actualy adds damage AND you don't need ammo mod for psi rares. So that's a double whammy right there. I remember one time going through hell to CST a silent hunter. And it came out to 0 slot with really bad stats. That kind of **** shouldn't even happen with rare weps.
Originally posted by Divide
why? because people like you do nothing but bitch and bitch and bitch. when something finally happens, you jump for joy for about 15 minutes, and then go back and bitch. SD after helen angilley (praise the lord that bitch is gone) you (and others with the same mindset) are the biggest problem with these forums. this isnt a nerf thread-- no shit, this is a slap in KK's face. They nerfed hybrids over and over and over and over again for months upon months. and finally they did what had to be done to make pures useful... obliterate the fucking hybrids. now hybrids are gone-- are you bitching and moaning again? yes. were you quiet for 15 minutes after the hybrid nerf? yes. will you bitch and moan about everything all the god damn time? yes.
A slap in KK's face? I disagree. Unlike you, I offer many many suggestions constantly to try and improve the game. I CARE about the game and about balance. I never wanted hybrids gone, I wanted them BALANCED. And pure were already useful at that time, pures had nothing to do with hybrids. Btw thanks for your constructive input. :lol:
Originally posted by Furion
some valid points divide, but i still dont think SD is as bad as helen :p
He has no valid points. I never wanted hybrids DESTROYED, I wanted them balanced. I don't bitch bitch bitch all the time, only about the major imbalance issues which YOU have also complained about.
And helen just flamed and trolled all the time looking for arguements. At least I try to come up with solutions. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Divide
so you mean to tell me that the daily nerf this, balance that, bitch and moan at this threads that come from SD dont make you feel like doing the same?
Do you really lack that much self control? :lol:
Honestly, you people can be so weak minded sometimes. Just put me on ignore or ignore my threads if all you gonna do is add flames and complain about me posting the same subject.
"OMGOMGMGOMG STOP POSTING THIS SHIT ALREADY OMFG I CAN'T HELP BUT CLICK ON YOUR THREADS I"M OBSESSED WITH YOU"
lol
Originally posted by Cruzbroker
*snip*
:rolleyes:
good night
Heh I can see the drom saying "I'm not sleeping in the wet spot!"
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Can you guys stop spamming my thread?
err ... no ...
the moment you start respecting other ppls threads and views and stop spamming nerf ppu crap in it, those ppl might consider not spamming your thread
till then ... spam :D
*hides from nid* :angel:
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 02:38
Originally posted by Anna
err ... no ...
the moment you start respecting other ppls threads and views and stop spamming nerf ppu crap in it, those ppl might consider not spamming your thread
till then ... spam :D
*hides from nid* :angel:
I barely post PPU stuff in NON ppu threads. I may make ONE post about it, but htat's it. Please don't even exaggerate. Why don't you stop spamming crap in any thread you post in, period?
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 02:40
Originally posted by Anna
coz youd miss me
*puts his finger to the corner of his mouth*
"Riiiiiiiight........."
You know what J. Folsom, you're right btw. I'm gonna start making a thread on how to make each rare useful(or as many as possible). I mean the underpowered ones.
EDIT:YES, as a matter of fact I got some cool ideas. Thanks J. :D
for once i agree with you shads. KK ned to pull their thumb out their ass and sort this mess out. the sun is setting on neocron. Many mmorpgs are out and are being promoted well. If they don't start getting some work done and start promoting and releasing doy and fixinf the 'major' bugs ppl will start going. I'm probably gonna leave for final fantasy 11 is shit doesn't get sorted by the new year. :(
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
ok they did nothing to nerf hybrids for months...............
truth<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Shadow
so when they changed teh PSI use sub skill.......... and they changed the psi power sub skill.......and the apu / ppu sub skill.....................this was in the time when they were doing nothing
and maybe they take time to actually make sure they do it properly
imo the reduction in apu to ppu and vice versa was the best way........most hybrids can win solo fights but can't win 3 vs 1 so they are destroyed.....
*puts finger to side of his mouth*
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
i admit atm its slightly too heavy handed but if it needs changeing it will
btw u been to a OP fight recently shadow .....
last op fight i was @ was one with $pirit a decent clan from pluto...they had at least 3 tanks ..2 spys maybe 1 pe and like 5 monks.........
reason there are so many monks......cos people wanted to be hybrid.....then lommed over.....found u didn't have to aim......and found u didn't have to reload......found u got better range then a CS............and if u went ppu the best defence in the game, so jsut shush and go back to ur school work SD as most of ur "balance" threads are posts that would result in a reduction in others or a boost to ur favoured char
[edit[
taken from a recent post
http://www.hygienexcellence.com/pics/eledmcp.JPG
out of 10 chars 2 monks :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Ryuben
reason there are so many monks......cos people wanted to be hybrid.....then lommed over.....found u didn't have to aim......and found u didn't have to reload......found u got better range then a CS............and if u went ppu the best defence in the game
And you think that's balanced?
Hybrids weren't nerfed until the APU/PPU negative nerf. Everything up to then was just an inconvenience to hybrids, and a nerf to the PSI on every other class.
Originally posted by Scikar
And you think that's balanced?
Hybrids weren't nerfed until the APU/PPU negative nerf. Everything up to then was just an inconvenience to hybrids, and a nerf to the PSI on every other class.
did i say they were i was jsut giveing points as to where KK was working on hybrids
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 02:56
Originally posted by Ryuben
[edited for consistency]
You are what you beat.
Originally posted by Ryuben
ok they did nothing to nerf hybrids for months...............
truth<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Shadow
so when they changed teh PSI use sub skill.......... and they changed the psi power sub skill.......and the apu / ppu sub skill.....................this was in the time when they were doing nothing
True, but this wasn't really a nerf IMO. I mean, TECHNICALLY it was supposed to be a nerf, but it didn't end up that way. Because they increased the amount of power PSI power added. So in some ways it was kind of a boost, lol.
Originally posted by Ryuben
and maybe they take time to actually make sure they do it properly
No offense to the dev team, I know they work MAD hard, but the hybrid "solution" really didn't seem like they took the time to do it properly. Again, I know they work hard and this isn't an insult to them. Then again, I don't know, maybe they INTENDED to hit hybrids so hard they were almost extinct.
Originally posted by Ryuben
reason there are so many monks......cos people wanted to be hybrid.....then lommed over.....found u didn't have to aim......and found u didn't have to reload......found u got better range then a CS............and if u went ppu the best defence in the game,
lol, that's not the only reason. First of all, you do hafta reload. So there goes your false belief right there. Secondly, it's also the fact that monks are so incredibly important in a fight, which is why their so many of them. I witnessed a many clan members rerolling to monks or getting an extra account just so our clan could be more viable at op wars. And some of them hated playing monks. So what does that say? :(
Originally posted by Ryuben
go back to ur school work SD as most of ur "balance" threads are posts that would result in a reduction in others or a boost to ur favoured char
Not really, I often ask for boosts for tanks and spies. Espeically spies. And when do I ask for a boost to my favoured char? That's so rare. I think the last boost I asked for was to fix fire spells, even then I said reduce damage and range.
Please don't lie.
Originally posted by Ryuben
did i say they were i was jsut giveing points as to where KK was working on hybrids
Yes you did, you said
so jsut shush and go back to ur school work SD as most of ur "balance" threads are posts that would result in a reduction in others or a boost to ur favoured char
Which is either a flame, and I'm sure you would never flame anyone would you Ryuben, so it must be that you're trying to tell SD that monks are balanced?
Btw 1 screenshot proves nothing. I could show you a screenshot of 5 spies at an OP war, does that mean everyone brings only spies to OP wars?
look i gave expamles of them working on hybrids, giveing evidence of them trying to work out the problem.
At the time the devs might have thought that would be all it took to nerf them *shrugs* they learnt and maybe worked out the last tweak (nerf) was the only one that would work with out destroying the entire class
but any way im off to bed now, and shad stop miss quoteing people or miss representing them, ta.
Yeah, and the whole point is, it took them months and months and months, whereas fixing exploits with MC5 etc is done within a couple of days. The most we saw was one small tweak to hybrids, at a rate of about one every 2 months. Hardly a priority is it?
SamuraiPizzaCat
02-12-03, 03:05
there are still hybrids, i have points in endurance (rifle user) and rade is a karebare
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 03:06
Originally posted by Ryuben
shad stop miss quoteing people or miss representing them, ta.
How am I doing that?
Originally posted by Ryuben
out of 10 chars 2 monks :rolleyes:
1 picture <--------------------------------------------------> truth
o_O
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
why does KK take forever to solve major imbalance issues?
What the hell is up with all these useless/underpowered rares and items?
Because balancing character classes or weapons is harder than just putting a minus sign where it was missing (that was the "entire rares drop from WBs" bug). It is not something with a good/bad switch. Bugs have two states: "not fixed" and "fixed". Balancing has either "only a minority complaining" (as it is impossible to please everyone, especially not gamers :rolleyes: hey, back off, I am a gamer myself so I know it :D) or "too many people dissatisfied". It's complex. It's like a net - when you pull on one end, the entire net wobbles. How would you like it that we take out the entire monk class until we have it properly balanced? Oh wait, now Tanks are overpowered, so lets take them out, too. Now the PEs own the Spies, so let's take them out, too. Whoo, everyone is a Spy now... Hmm, on second thought, that doesn't sound so bad ;)
Anyway. If there would be a viable easy way, we would be going it, trust me on that :angel: but there is no easy way when it gets to balancing.
Although I suppose I could bug CoDi about a "/set gm_perfectbalancing 1" and a "/set ctrl_bugs 0" command :p
It's not that Callash, it's the lack of response. Look at how many hybrid tweak ideas there were posted in the forums, golve ideas, spell ideas, skill ideas, but there was never any official response. We don't even know what you think about monkacron. What do you, as devs, think of PPUs, for example? We don't know what you are trying to do to the game. If you said, "We want PPUs to be less important but they should keep their current level of defence" then people could post ideas aimed at achieving that goal.
But there's nothing, all we've ever had is the patch 163 notes, and the notice about hybrids, "We don't want you to be able to use the highest level APU spells and the highest level PPU spells in combination. We will continually tweak spells and the PSI skills until this is no longer possible." What do you think of PEs having better defence than tanks? All of these things are balance issues, issues that the community would like to see a response from the devs about.
We know that balancing is a difficult process, but that's because it's continuous, the changes have to be progressive. The feedback and the tweaks currently come all at once, and then we find out it's too little/too much, but no official response until the next big tweak.
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 03:41
Originally posted by Callash
Because balancing character classes or weapons is harder than just putting a minus sign where it was missing (that was the "entire rares drop from WBs" bug). It is not something with a good/bad switch. Bugs have two states: "not fixed" and "fixed". Balancing has either "only a minority complaining" (as it is impossible to please everyone, especially not gamers :rolleyes: hey, back off, I am a gamer myself so I know it :D) or "too many people dissatisfied". It's complex. It's like a net - when you pull on one end, the entire net wobbles. How would you like it that we take out the entire monk class until we have it properly balanced? Oh wait, now Tanks are overpowered, so lets take them out, too. Now the PEs own the Spies, so let's take them out, too. Whoo, everyone is a Spy now... Hmm, on second thought, that doesn't sound so bad ;)
Anyway. If there would be a viable easy way, we would be going it, trust me on that :angel: but there is no easy way when it gets to balancing.
Although I suppose I could bug CoDi about a "/set gm_perfectbalancing 1" and a "/set ctrl_bugs 0" command :p
Hrmmm. I guess you're right. I'm just bothered by the sheer amount of time that passes before we even see hints of something being done. And about the hybrid, it really did seem like a sledgehammer solution, which is why I was so surprised that it took so long if ultimately it was just gonna be a "IN YO FACE" type of nerf. hehe :p
Anyways, Scikar spoke what I wanted to write. So um yea, look at what he said. :p
MayhemMike
02-12-03, 03:42
Well shadow, Maybe some of these GMs have stuff better to do than sit around and post on the forums all day mr. 30 posts a day.
Shadow Dancer
02-12-03, 04:58
Originally posted by MayhemMike
Well shadow, Maybe some of these GMs have stuff better to do than sit around and post on the forums all day mr. 30 posts a day.
What do GMs have to do with anything?
MayhemMike
02-12-03, 05:46
i mean devs :O
There should be 4-5 viable weapons per class imo. NOt the same cookie cutter crap. I'd like to see weapons vary in range more. WHere melee up close is truely powerful. CS poweful up close, but shittier farther away, etc. you get my drift.
It's not that Callash, it's the lack of response. Look at how many hybrid tweak ideas there were posted in the forums, golve ideas, spell ideas, skill ideas, but there was never any official response. We don't even know what you think about monkacron. What do you, as devs, think of PPUs, for example? We don't know what you are trying to do to the game. If you said, "We want PPUs to be less important but they should keep their current level of defence" then people could post ideas aimed at achieving that goal.
Definitely. That has always been one of the things that frustrated me most with regards to dev-customer relations in Neocron. You never know if any given balance situation is the intended end result or not, so you never know if it's worth debating or making suggestions.
The time taken to 'fix' things isn't specific to PvP (or other) balance btw. Remember how long implant drops took to fix? In theory a pretty simple thing to sort out and only fairly minor balance considerations (how available do you want them). But we took, what, 3 months to get level 3's dropping again then another 3 for 1's and 2's (besides store-bought ones) to reappear in the loot pools? (the full range of implants are dropping again now, yes?)
And to tie in with what I quoted, I still to this day do not know if the implant drop issue was a bug, or if it was intentional. Was it an attempt to manipulate/influence player economy in a certain way (eg forcing people to go to older constructing characters for level 1+2 imps) or was it simply a bug that was far more complex than updating loot tables?
SnotNosedBrat
02-12-03, 10:15
some of the ideas ive seen are complete crap
you think giving tanks/pe/spies an antibuff is gonna allow them to drop a ppu?
any decent ppu will have his shelter up the second ur antibuff goes off, oh no he might take 50 damage.
I have solo'd ppus on my apu solely because they didnt know the antibuff was coming and didnt get their shelter up fast enough (mainly when trying to rezz a friend, like at jeriko with new dawn a week or so ago)
fact is- 1 or even 2 people are not going to solo a ppu, get over it, even if they have their own antibuffs. ppu's in an op situation are not imbalanced, they are just needed. as are apu's
i just think they need to do something to make pe's/spies/tanks also needed at an op fight - maybe ditch the high intelligence on monks so they cant also take 100 hack or something.
In a 1v1 setting a spy/pe/tank/apu are pretty balanced - so no shit someone giving heals/shelters is gonna throw it off.
Paraspam? ever heard of antishock drugs, how many of you actually carry them? if you take an antishock parashock serves its purpose - a 2 or 3 second delay in speed allowing the PPU to
run. I could care less about paraspam because i carry drugs on me. If a ppu dboost+parashocks you to death you are pathetic and should quit as the amount of time it would take them to do it to you is more than enough to run to a genrep 2 zones away - even with para on you.
i take my tank to op fights - and still have fun and do damage. Only thing i cant kill is a ppu - big freaking deal.
i guess im the only person who plays a game for what it is and doesn't get hung up with not being able to kill some class without 3 or so people.
Monks aren't imbalanced they are simply necessary
I think its the other classes that need to be looked at not the monk
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