KK sue-able? [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

Mingerroo

01-12-03, 19:26

Well, I was sitting in my room thinking of how I'll definitely come back to NC when DoY gets here. Then I decided to get the NC case down and see what information it has for people.

I found three particularly disturbing things:
1) "State of the art graphics engine"
Uhuh, ok, if you say so. (and dont badger me about how long ago the game was released, half-life is approx. 9 years old and looks great).

2)"Countless design options for character avatars"
I can count them. Approx 10 per sex and class, so 80ish. That is a fairly weak point.

3)"BoP (Balance of Power) engine lets players transform their actions into share values."

This is the crux of my argument. As you can see, there is no BoP engine. I am fully aware of it being one of the "done in the future" features, but with nothing even resembling it, why do they advertise it as some kind of great feature in its release state?

Well, law students please inform me, is this false advertising? And if I was a mean bitch (which Im not) would I have a standing in court?

Mingoo

gostly

01-12-03, 19:31

lol, i bet so many fanboi's are wanting to flame you right about now...i dunno anything about it tho

Tickles

01-12-03, 19:31

I'm not sure bout NC box, but the Star Wars Galaxies box has a little "Game Expirience May Change During Online Play." Surely KK isn't stupid enough not to include something like that.

Mingerroo

01-12-03, 19:32

Yeah, I was checking for that, nothing found so far :D

Mingoo

Scikar

01-12-03, 19:34

I'd say Neocron looks a hell of a lot better than Half-Life.. o_O

Countless design options it's a good point though, it's something the community has been asking for for a long time, and we want a large choice, not just the option of overwriting the textures with custom ones. Maybe KK will surprise us with more options for DoY.

BoP I think might actually be in in a limited form. Never really looked at the share prices before but they could be related to faction statistics.

On the subject of whether or not KK can be sued for it, I honestly don't know, but I've seen some pretty dodgy claims on the backs of EA boxes, so I doubt KK have a problem. Also couldn't it have been CDV who did the box?

Shakey -=Tank=-

01-12-03, 19:36

Surely there is a clause somewhere on the box or in the manual that protects KK from such cases. I'll have to dig my box out and have a look for some small print.

Dribble Joy

01-12-03, 19:39

I think CDV should be sued for this (http://www.cdv-neocron.com/english/index0.htm) (prees the start button), for loss of business to KK.

Joking aside, I don't know whether KK could be sued, and the fanboi that lurks in my soul says, do your really want to?

Martin J. Schwiezer

01-12-03, 19:43

You may sue CDV for whatever you like. They are responsible for the product description :D

On the other hand... there's a lot of stuff in the game, which is not announced on the box. So _morally_ it appears a fair thing to me.

Nidhogg

01-12-03, 19:43

Originally posted by Mingerroo
1) "State of the art graphics engine"Back then it was and it can still hold its own. I've seen screenies of another MMORPG yet to be released and I have to say that Neocron holds its own. :p

2)"Countless design options for character avatars"
I can count them. Approx 10 per sex and class, so 80ish. That is a fairly weak point.Multiply that by the number of colour schemes available at the outfitters...

3)"BoP (Balance of Power) engine lets players transform their actions into share values."Share values can be altered based on what's happening in-game and it does happen from time to time.

Why bother even writing this thread if not to try and stir up some more trouble though? :rolleyes:

N

greploco

01-12-03, 19:47

reality check please

Zanathos

01-12-03, 19:48

Yes... lets ALL SUE NEOCRON!

Glok

01-12-03, 19:51

Anyone who would sue a game maker because they aren't satisfied with the claims made on the packaging or because they don't like the game is a fucking moron. No offense.

*ph33r*

01-12-03, 19:53

HERE COME THE FANBOI MENZ! ONOZ!

Rade

01-12-03, 19:55

holds it own against comming mmorpgs? o_O

dragon empires (http://www.codemasters.com/dragonempires/uk/thegame/screenshots.php?pageno=3)

Anyway, KK isnt america, you cant sue someone because youre
an idiot in europe.

g0rt

01-12-03, 19:58

Originally posted by Mingerroo
Well, I was sitting in my room thinking of how I'll definitely come back to NC when DoY gets here. Then I decided to get the NC case down and see what information it has for people.

I found three particularly disturbing things:
1) "State of the art graphics engine"
Uhuh, ok, if you say so. (and dont badger me about how long ago the game was released, half-life is approx. 9 years old and looks great).

2)"Countless design options for character avatars"
I can count them. Approx 10 per sex and class, so 80ish. That is a fairly weak point.

3)"BoP (Balance of Power) engine lets players transform their actions into share values."

This is the crux of my argument. As you can see, there is no BoP engine. I am fully aware of it being one of the "done in the future" features, but with nothing even resembling it, why do they advertise it as some kind of great feature in its release state?

Well, law students please inform me, is this false advertising? And if I was a mean bitch (which Im not) would I have a standing in court?

Mingoo

1) I think the Neocron graphics engine is good, and half life isn't 9 years old :lol:

2) Yeah a little weak in this area....walking into plaza1 you are bound to find a twin or two, especially in monk-o-cron these days :p

3) Dunno

Sueing wont help anything tho

Promethius

01-12-03, 20:11

Originally posted by Rade
holds it own against comming mmorpgs? o_O

dragon empires (http://www.codemasters.com/dragonempires/uk/thegame/screenshots.php?pageno=3)

Anyway, KK isnt america, you cant sue someone because youre
an idiot in europe.

When is this game going to come out? Has it started its beta yet?

Graphix in neocron aren't bad at all. Tho the diff char models is weak. Especialy the clothes. I'd be happy if a clothes thingy (no idea wat its called) would have alot wider of a variety of clothes. Cuz honeslty I'm just seeing the same lookin peeps in diff color. Might i suggest 20 pairs of clothing for each avatar? Maybe some shorts? a bikini or 2 for the girl Pe's :lol: . And possibly something more covering for the tank gals....like a tarp or paper bag they can wear ont ehre head ^^

Mingerroo

01-12-03, 20:12

hehe. IM NOT GOING TO SUE ANYONE.

I love the game, as a writer of a 2d MMORPG (still in production) I recognise the pain and anguish and EFFORT that go into writing a game of this stature. I respect MJS and all the mods and GMs for their hardwork and communication.

Seriously, even when I was just a fanboy I didn't really realise just quite how much work goes into a creation like this. Good work guys, oh, and this thread was just out of interest (I have a mind for scams and getting rich quick) so if any mod or GM or even MJS find it offensive, please delete it :D

Mingoo

[edit]And I really didnt mean to stir things up. Im sorry about that :(

Promethius

01-12-03, 20:15

Originally posted by Mingerroo
(I have a mind for scams and getting rich quick)

if peeps pay u 5 cents everytime they say they gunna quit and come back. Watch out bill gates here comes MINGERROOO0!!1one

Psycho Killa

01-12-03, 20:17

I think neocron does definately hold its own in the mmorpg market. Come on it may not be the best looking thing but ick have u seen wow its a bit cartooney for my taste but o well.

Zanathos

01-12-03, 20:18

The problem with adding more close is this :

It lags like hell as it is when theres alot of people in Plaza 1. (Frame Loss)

Not something I expect on a computer of my power.

The looks of a game arent TOO important to me.

But hell.....

If Neocron looked like Unreal II I woudlnt complain ^_^

Dribble Joy

01-12-03, 20:19

Though the avatar selection with regards to clothes and apearances are concerned, is a bit poo, I have yet to see my twin, I have seen people with the same shirt or trousers, but none that are the same.

Promethius

01-12-03, 20:21

Originally posted by Zanathos
The problem with adding more close is this :

It lags like hell as it is when theres alot of people in Plaza 1. (Frame Loss)

Not something I expect on a computer of my power.

The looks of a game arent TOO important to me.

But hell.....

If Neocron looked like Unreal II I woudlnt complain ^_^

Thats why plaza 1 lags to all hell? (10 FPS) Also the other day in chaos caves tehre was about 15 people and well i was getting a whopping 1 Frame per sec..IF the close are doing this i vote we all go naked....cept female tanks i'll sacrifice some FPS for there clothes ^^

Omnituens

01-12-03, 20:21

Originally posted by Scikar
I'd say Neocron looks a hell of a lot better than Half-Life.. o_O

maybe... but at least HL has fucking playable FPS...

Preshock

01-12-03, 20:21

/me sues KK for a laugh

/me now has no house

/me now has no clothes

/me now has no money

/me wishes he didnt sue kk

Ormy

01-12-03, 20:21

Originally posted by Rade
Anyway, KK isnt america, you cant sue someone because you're an idiot in europe.

lol, it's funny 'cos its true

Right, so you sue KK, you get money, they loose money. You think taking away thousands from a minute team of people working on this game is going to help? You'll probably end up spending ur money on more 'cron anyway lol.

Felissa

01-12-03, 20:24

Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
DoY wird _nicht_ als Expansion Pack released, sondern als quasi "neues Produkt" am Markt positioniert. Der Name wird "Neocron - Beyond Dome of York" sein. Dies ist auch nur logisch, da die Stadt Neocron ebenfalls optisch und spielerisch ueberarbeitet wird. Und man wird sich jetzt jawohl auch ohne, dass ich es explizit sage, an 5 Fingern abzaehlen koennen, dass wir keine kantigen Characters durch die verschoenerten Gassen beider Staedte schicken wollen.

One part of this is, that they do not want to have the old characters walking through the beautified cities. :D

robinitnow

01-12-03, 20:25

Originally posted by Preshock
/me sues KK for a laugh

/me now has no house

/me now has no clothes

/me now has no money

/me wishes he didnt sue kk

dude cam the beans

Zanathos

01-12-03, 20:27

As far as i know, lag has nothing to do with fps.

I just dont think the engine can handle so many people that look different. (players or MOBS) At least in one area.

Dribble Joy

01-12-03, 20:36

Though NC's engine is HEAVILY modified from the origianl, it is stil very old, and I don't think it was designed to be run like it is currently.
KK is a small company and thus was not able to afford to buy the license for a spangly new, ubar engine like UT's.

RuButt

01-12-03, 20:40

lol....i wub MJS.....

im gonna make a song dedicated to MJS one day...

Zanathos

01-12-03, 20:40

The game looks about like what UT looks like.

Problem with MMOG's is that you have to tread carefully graphics wise.

Planetside for example.

You NEED a gig of RAM in order to have the details up all the way and play the game with no lag.

I HAD to reduce the graphics because my ram wasnt enough to support all the high details. It was unplayable with high details.

There ARE limitations to game engines.

Neocron im sure could be tweaked to look better, and lag less with lots of people.

Its mostly all about simplifiying the games code and making the program do more with less coding.

FirestarXL

01-12-03, 20:48

Point One: Halflife does not look great. It looks dated, very dated. But it plays great and that's what matters.

Point Two: Agreed :D

Point Three: Yeah I think that got taken out because of exploiting. Bah humbug.

Archeus

01-12-03, 20:55

A good warning to put on the box.

Warning: Game may contain stupid people.

*ph33r*

01-12-03, 21:00

Originally posted by Archeus
A good warning to put on the box.

Warning: Game may contain stupid people.

Add to that:

Carebears and fanbois included.

:rolleyes:

Syntax-Error

01-12-03, 21:14

Ahh.. you must be american.

Marx

01-12-03, 21:24

Me saying this simply to any persons with thought of suing KK.

You need to get a fucking life.

ezza

01-12-03, 21:56

Originally posted by *ph33r*
Add to that:

Carebears and fanbois included.

:rolleyes:

fanbois and carebears in the same sentence, hell i support KK but dont gimme the carebear crap.

i log on to kill people not to hold there hand

oh and noones suing KK or ill have to go play diablo 2 again:( dont make me do that:D

Martin J. Schwiezer

01-12-03, 21:58

Originally posted by Mingerroo

2)"Countless design options for character avatars"
I can count them. Approx 10 per sex and class, so 80ish. That is a fairly weak point. Just came to think of it: You can actually colorize _everything_ you wear in a pretty unlimited manner... which gives you "countless design options for character avatars". :p

Mwuahahahaha...

*ph33r*

01-12-03, 22:00

Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Just came to think of it: You can actually colorize _everything_ you wear in a pretty unlimited manner... which gives you "countless design options for character avatars". :p

Mwuahahahaha...

Grats Mingerroo, MJS has made you his bitch :D

shodanjr_gr

01-12-03, 22:07

Originally posted by Zanathos
The game looks about like what UT looks like.

Problem with MMOG's is that you have to tread carefully graphics wise.

Planetside for example.

You NEED a gig of RAM in order to have the details up all the way and play the game with no lag.

I HAD to reduce the graphics because my ram wasnt enough to support all the high details. It was unplayable with high details.

There ARE limitations to game engines.

Neocron im sure could be tweaked to look better, and lag less with lots of people.

Its mostly all about simplifiying the games code and making the program do more with less coding.

Yeah but PS medium gfx settings (at which i was running PS on my current system) gave me like 20 fps in huge battles. Neocron fps in OP wars (10-15 peeps) is like 15. And PS Medium GFx=10xNeocron High GFx.

Furthermore i think BoP engine was in at beginning of retail but it was removed l8er cause it was open to a lot of exploiting. Dont quote me on dis though.

Promethius

01-12-03, 22:21

Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Furthermore i think BoP engine was in at beginning of retail but it was removed l8er cause it was open to a lot of exploiting. Dont quote me on dis though.

What is this BoP engine u speak of? And wat was it suppose to do?

Spoon

01-12-03, 22:22

EULA

You signed it........

"Deal with it"(tm)

:)

Pi-Oh-Pah

01-12-03, 22:24

Originally posted by Tickles
I'm not sure bout NC box, but the Star Wars Galaxies box has a little "Game Expirience May Change During Online Play." Surely KK isn't stupid enough not to include something like that.

I saw this on the Everquest trial I played

Shadow Dancer

01-12-03, 22:24

Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Ahh.. you must be american.

Was there really any need for another silly "you amerikanz LOLO" comment?

:rolleyes:

Marx

01-12-03, 22:26

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Was there really any need for another silly "you amerikanz LOLO" comment?

:rolleyes:

Was there any need to pretend to take offense.

:rolleyes:

Mingerroo

01-12-03, 22:29

OK. I request this to be closed as there are some people who don't appreciate that I was just honestly interested in the laws behind it, and have no intention of suing KK. There are some people here who can't keep their mouths shut about a point that doesn't exist. Seriously, flaming here is just abominal (wasn't there a recent rule that flaming = ban?). Anywho, yeah, and remove it if you will please.

Mingoo

Shadow Dancer

01-12-03, 22:30

Originally posted by Marx
Was there any need to pretend to take offense.

:rolleyes:

I wasn't pretending to take offense. Just sick and tired of Syntax's "you amerikanz LOLO" comments.

kthx

Marx

01-12-03, 22:31

Most of the world doesn't like us, get over it and continue living.

:confused:

Shadow Dancer

01-12-03, 22:31

Originally posted by Mingerroo
OK. I request this to be closed as there are some people who don't appreciate that I was just honestly interested in the laws behind it, and have no intention of suing KK. There are some people here who can't keep their mouths shut about a point that doesn't exist. Seriously, flaming here is just abominal (wasn't there a recent rule that flaming = ban?). Anywho, yeah, and remove it if you will please.

Mingoo

Wasn't there some agreement we all signed stating they could do whatever the hell they want or change what they want, or something like that.

:confused:

But I do think it's ultra lame to stuff on the FREAKING BOX that aren't in the game. That's just a straight up lie.

Originally posted by Marx
Most of the world doesn't like us, get over it and continue living.

:confused:

Get "over" it and continue living? I made ONE comment about it.
Jesus........

:rolleyes:

VashTheSoldier

01-12-03, 22:36

i watched that intro, and since when were horrors yellow..and since when can spys shoot judgement day rocket launchers? kthx.

msdong

01-12-03, 22:43

Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Just came to think of it: You can actually colorize _everything_ you wear in a pretty unlimited manner... which gives you "countless design options for character avatars". :p
...

dont forget all the different weapons a char can hold wich change his outfit ...

Marx

01-12-03, 22:45

i watched that intro, and since when were horrors yellow..and since when can spys shoot judgement day rocket launchers? kthx.

Come on... You have to admit it was entertaining.

dont forget all the different weapons a char can hold wich change his outfit ...

MORE DIFFERENCES!! WOOHOO!

;)

Get "over" it and continue living? I made ONE comment about it

Yeah, one comment about this particular issue you have. Look through most of your posts... Alot of them are of similar whiny context.

Cheers.

:D

Shadow Dancer

01-12-03, 22:47

Poor Marx, trying to flame bait.

Originally posted by Marx

Yeah, one comment about this particular issue you have. Look through most of your posts... Alot of them are of similar whiny context.

You mean like whining how PK victims don't "understand" my stupid anti-social mentality? Or my whiny WANNABE psychology rants even though I know shit about psychology?

Oh wait that was you.

pwnd

Originally posted by Marx

Cheers.

Indeed, one of my favorite comedies.