View Full Version : A Psychological Look into the Whiny Victim/PKAR D00D
Ok, it's less of of a psych paper and more of a rant, but still. It might give insight to the clueless.
For the past two days, I've been running around various locale in the Neocron world killing people. Some were people idling, others newblars, some people who were on their own and seemed cocky.
I was red a coupla times, and had to do missions to get back into 'good' standing...
Overall I killed 31 different people a total of 76 times (outside of OP wars/clan conflicts)...
Here's what I've noticed.
1.) Victims don't seem to understand the idea of running away or saying something along the lines of "Yo, Chill!" They're like sheep staring into the eyes of a butcher, timid and confused. Perhaps if these people said something before I killed them, I wouldn't have - If they can't be assed to try and defend themselves physically or verbally, I can't be assed to let them live.
2) People will talk shit no matter what. During this killing spree, I only died 3 times; even though there were groups going after me in MB, TH and PP. I would stealth away when things got hot, and lead them around on wild goose chases hoping some of the group members would get bored, figure they can do something more productive elsewhere, and leave - So as the playing feild gets a bit more even. These groups somehow convinced themselves that I'm the scared one, I'm the one without skill - Yet they had 6-12 people after me; yet couldn't even kill me. Why must people talk shit? I made a point of leaving belts alone and I generally give back the stuff I do hack because I'm not a complete asshole.
3.) People are gullible. There I am in PP - a coupla' hours after the PP kami bit... I need people to kill to meet quota... So I spam "OMG, KAMI'S IN PP", then random bits like "HEAL" or "GET MY BELT"... You know... to give people the impression I'm mistelling something that should be in team or clan chat. People swarmed. People died, albeit not many because the zone line is right there...
4.) People are entertaining. Some dude walks up to me, I'm in his faction headquarters and his faction is hostile (was bored and entertaining myself with faction guards). So this runner, 21/33 if I recall properly whips out a rifle and says "Get out of my HQ". Quite a ballsy move, so I respond simply, "Put that away, you'll shoot your eye out". Long story short, he starts shooting me to no avail. I couldn't bring myself to shoot him, he was just such a cool dude. I let him know such "I'm not gonna kill you, You're too funny"...
Then he says this: "You PKer fucks are ruining this game". If it was possible to do a double-take in game, I would've... Hell, I did one over on this side of the monitor. So... I kill him, hack his belt, and throw his medkit at him when he comes running back. He picks it up, says "thanks". I kill him again, hack his belt, get a hack tool. He comes back again, I don't kill him this time though. He asks for his hacktool back, and I trade him the hacktool for the medkit I looted earlier.
Then we had a long drawn out conversation which was broken up when 3 faction members stormed in to take me out, I killed him again and ran out of the HQ.
5.) Clans actually are trying to do stuff to make PKAR D00DZ less common. I love running around in MB killing people, the enviroment is just... Quality. Anyway, I kill a coupla' people there and some City Merc runners run up to me. "Hey man, you killing people?", "Some" I respond. "Don't kill people here, or we'll go after you". So I leave for a bit. Come back around 45 minutes later and go at it again. A red City Merc dude runs up. "Dude, PK again and I'll kill you"... He was red... And... I ... Was... Well, it was an situation too good to pass up. I kill him, leave his belt and say simply "You better hurry up before someone else hacks your belt".
At that point I'm personna non gratia in MB, yet I'm still around. I kill a City Admin runner, another City Merc dude (lower level, another ballsy dude) pops up and says "Please don't PK here". I shrug and head to TH again.
6.) No one seems to understand that a PK has fun PKing. If I wanted to hunt warbots... I'd be hunting warbots at that point. If I wanted to OP fight, I'd go with some people to an OP fight. PKing generally leads to 1 on 1 fighting/small group fighting which can be entertaining. I also think it requires more skill because you're generally without support. Granted, it takes no skill to pick off n00bs, but I'm not a complete n00b killer... Only the ones which piss me off. (See 1 & 2)
7.) People like to tote that they're friends with so and so, or is an alt of mr/ms/mrs mucky muck. I can give a crap less because you're either dead or alive based on how you defend yourself (see 1). I don't give a rats ass if you're an alt of some super high powerful clan dude, because frankly; if you wanted to make a more valid point, you'd log on that alt and come own the fuck out of me instead of sending whiny DM's.
8.) People immediately think I'm a 10 year old FPS junky who's on the verge of having a heart attack due to excitement every time I kill someone.
Sorry, I don't get tunnel vision when I chase after someone; I need to keep everything in check... If I don't pay attention and Mr. PPU MANZ comes in a DB's me and paraspams me... Life will suck. Instead the minute I see blue I stealth away to pick on someone who's not with the main group. If I got tunnel vision, I would've died alot more than 3 times.
9.) The minute you beat someone with a grandiose opinion of themselves, you're labled a hacker. According to two different people, I R HACKER MANZ - and they're sending screens to abuse@neocron.com. All the screens will show is that they got 'teh ownzorD 2 teh max'. It pisses me off that people will slander the name of another just because they've been spitten. You lost, that sucks; learn from it and build a better character or learn to defend yourself (see 1).
10.) At the end of the PKing day, I look at what I've accomplished and realize it's becoming less and less fruitful. Eventually it will be pointless. Revel in it now folks, because in a coupla' months it will probably be impossible to kill other people outside warzones.
Very well said dude. Some people just don't understand.
the only thing that pisses me off is an allied or same faction pkar. fuck it, i get pked by a red person, or a neutral person, then fair play. If i was idleing in a dumb place, then thats my fault. I dont like getting ganked by a fat group, theres no challenge if 12 Apu/Ppus come and gank me, not like i can do anything. Solo Pker has something to lose. pkar + ppu isnt worth me taking on, because whats the risk for them? What class apart from APU can take out a ppu solo?
I got respect for a solo pker. I got none for a gank squad. :)
Hihihihi :D. What char are you pking with? Leo? What faction?
Dieplayer was the guy i think :)
didnt you get my Rifle PE PA 3? Carmen said you hacked it in TH..
i used to do that but now i really dont go looking for fights becuase i enjoy duels more now. since im more likely to find a duelist that can beat me and when i find one it makes me better becuase i keep trying to improve myself untill i can win.
but i agree with your opinions and most of your arguements, what server do you play on? pking low level runners its my idea of fun tho........ but you stand more chance of dieing if you pick on some one your own size eh marx :p
pissed me off today, i was fighting ba baracus and trillain and winning go both down to nearly no health then an apu comes flying in i try to ignore his shots hopeing he has an energy beam not a HL, trillian stealths and ba goes for the pp1 med bay so i take the opertunity to run my ass off hopeing the apu cant aim, i get stuck on the railings trying ot jump over them and i die almost at the zoneing area pp1/p3 they all surround me while my freind from btrf rezz's me and im thinking " -13 sl 4 capped chars im not gonna very far here" i get rezz killed 3-4 times before i manage to zone masta killa managed to get my belts, now the tank comes out and starts going HARR HARR i killed j00 without sheilds" and stuff (i kicked his ass when he got his ppu alt to buff him" and he challenges me to nf becuase i call him skilless.
so we go to neofrag needless to say the score was 5-0 to me only coming close when my cs wouldnt come out at the start, and he gains respect for me and i decide not to be a fucker and rub it in.
DiePlayer, bought the account now that my older brother wants Marx and Leo back for his use. Of course he's prolly gonna get griefed hardcore now, lol.
@Rieper, Negetive. I didn't have time to hack with the group of you people chasing me.
;)
edit - and DiePlayers Crahn now.
Originally posted by Marx
DiePlayer, bought the account now that my older brother wants Marx and Leo back for his use. Of course he's prolly gonna get griefed hardcore now, lol.
I wondered why he left SSi :P You still in dark or left?
Originally posted by Rade
I wondered why he left SSi :P You still in dark or left?
DiePlayers in Dark now, Marx and Leo are in .:W/T:.
Originally posted by Marx
DiePlayer, bought the account now that my older brother wants Marx and Leo back for his use. Of course he's prolly gonna get griefed hardcore now, lol.
@Rieper, Negetive. I didn't have time to hack with the group of you people chasing me.
;)
edit - and DiePlayers Crahn now.
lol, i was on your side, pking TH guys :D :D Mumbly's hybrid got me.
Oh Shite!
All I saw was your name on the local list, forgot you just joined the clan, lol
Mumbly sucks, at first he didn't attack me - I didn't attack him at the time because I wasn't sure of our clans stance with his, then the minute a bunch of FA show up he starts going berserk.
Tons of fun though.
:lol:
Zu (Pluto)
29-11-03, 02:57
The only thing I disagree with really is point 1, since it's hard to type something while you're being shot at. But I guess if you are under attack you should defend yourself first and talk later.
Not my style of play, but I do think your points have some merit, since it's your style of play. A bit too close to the dangerous side for me, but then again I'm a carebear. :)
Point is though - we don't all play the same way so I just wish that people will chill when they get killed and not take it so personally. Things will be so boring if there is not that danger that at the worst possible moment a PKer will leap out of the woodwork and do death on you. Providing the PKers aren't picking on the newbies or any specific person in particular, I say more power to them!
Zu
KramerTheWeird
29-11-03, 03:14
76 kills? Those people diserved to die, or were having a real bad day. If it was anyone with brains and skill, you'd be having more trouble.
marx, we should do a few tagteam runs some day. two synched
stealthing PEs is quite fun to do pk runs with.
KramerTheWeird
29-11-03, 03:23
You know what's funner? Sync'd silent hunter groups.. hehe 5 shots of SH on a runner = their death :) then stealth and on to the next guy!
KRIMINAL99
29-11-03, 03:29
Quote-
The minute you beat someone with a grandiose opinion of themselves, you're labled a hacker. According to two different people, I R HACKER MANZ - and they're sending screens to abuse@neocron.com. All the screens will show is that they got 'teh ownzorD 2 teh max'. It pisses me off that people will slander the name of another just because they've been spitten. You lost, that sucks; learn from it and build a better character or learn to defend yourself (see 1).
Hahah YEP. Unless noone was there to see it. Then it just "didnt happen".
2) People will talk shit no matter what. During this killing spree, I only died 3 times; even though there were groups going after me in MB, TH and PP. I would stealth away when things got hot, and lead them around on wild goose chases hoping some of the group members would get bored, figure they can do something more productive elsewhere, and leave - So as the playing feild gets a bit more even. These groups somehow convinced themselves that I'm the scared one, I'm the one without skill - Yet they had 6-12 people after me; yet couldn't even kill me. Why must people talk shit? I made a point of leaving belts alone and I generally give back the stuff I do hack because I'm not a complete asshole.
They just trying to piss you off... anger is fear.. they want you to show fear. Just be like whatever and kill them again lol.
Syntax-Error
29-11-03, 03:30
Ye respect too u man. u caused a few probs too us in TH but atleast u killed and wasnt a wanker like 90% of those who do what u did.
" People will talk shit no matter what. During this killing spree, I only died 3 times; even though there were groups going after me in MB, TH and PP. I would stealth away when things got hot, and lead them around on wild goose chases hoping some of the group members would get bored, figure they can do something more productive elsewhere, and leave - So as the playing feild gets a bit more even. These groups somehow convinced themselves that I'm the scared one, I'm the one without skill - Yet they had 6-12 people after me; yet couldn't even kill me. Why must people talk shit? I made a point of leaving belts alone and I generally give back the stuff I do hack because I'm not a complete asshole."
true =)
me and one friend was pking in CA HQ, about 15+ come and defend it, we have already killed all in that group like 4 times.....so we go and get ammo and psi boosters..... when we come back....everyone is gone....
and they send an email where they described how much they owned us..
Haha, so you're Dieplayer. KOS :D (not that I don't kill you anyways)
Marx, your whole post reminded me of a story. You know Sandman? There is one part where all these sociopaths are having a convention about "How the victim doesn't understand". Sounded exactly the same.
I don't have a problem with your playstyle, sounds like you play it as it should be played (no whining, just ganking).
Some bits to comment on.
1.) Victims don't seem to understand the idea of running away or saying something along the lines of "Yo, Chill!"
Depends on the victim. Nearly all you hit by the sounds of it are probably levelling or do not or cannot fight back. Or are of the same faction and are wondering why someone who should be friendly is attacking them.
Nothing to do with being sheep. Actually if I get attacked by a PK'er although now I will fight back, if that player is so well ahead of my level that I have absolutly no chance. I let them kill me. I don't run away or fight back, I let them kill me. If they are friendly faction I even come back and let them kill me again (only make sure they get no loot).
You see it has nothing to do with being a sheep, rather with a high level player picking on a lower one what is the point of giving them any fun when they remove yours? I run away and the PKer is all "Oooh a chase", I fight back and they will kill me anyway so better to let them kill me and level elsewhere, or give them what they want (a kill with a soft gooey SL hit inside).
You see the worst thing you can do to a PKer is ignore them.
Telling a PKer to chill in most instances will have no effect.
6.) No one seems to understand that a PK has fun PKing.
And what the majority of PK'ers fail to understand that is that for a lot of thier victims it isn't.
Thankfully the current system keeps the wussies from rampant ganking otherwise the more people complaining would lead to further restrictions on PK'ing. Fair plays to you to actually play the game as it is meant to be played rather then coming here whining for SL changes.
Eventually it will be pointless. Revel in it now folks, because in a coupla' months it will probably be impossible to kill other people outside warzones.
The general feeling I was getting that the city was loosing it safe zones (hence the copbot increase).
I dont care about pk'rs cuz im one myself but i dont like ppl killing my n00b chars....1) its not a challenge...2) im unclanned, they cant have any problem with me...3) it wastes my time logging someone else to kill them over and over.
I dont like being killed of groups and then to be called a n00b cuz i cant (e.g from the other day) kill the 2ppu's/2apu's/1tank that stormed my tank on his own.....yet when we went back with just 4 ppl on there built up team of about 8 they got fuxxed over and still said we lost over trade....nob ed's! uranus = sux.
Don't have much to say regarding points 2-10 since I've not really been on either side on those; I don't go on pk sprees, nor do I really react or care much if someone pks me (cept maybe to note their name for future opportunities to damage them in whatever (legal) means are available :))
However regarding point 1: You're a rare pker if people talking to you before or during the attack, or running away, or fighting back, actually might influence you not to kill the victim. In my experience none of the above stops you getting killed. It *might* result in an apology afterwards ("sorry man, had to kill you cos you're an enemy faction", "nothing personal, killing everyone here" or something like that), but that doesn't gain you anything - same end result as if they'd dm'd "pwned" or said nothing at all. Fighting back or fleeing are similarly pointless unless you're actually pretty high level yourself (and able to compete, or at least stealth/paraspam).
9.) The minute you beat someone with a grandiose opinion of themselves, you're labled a hacker. According to two different people, I R HACKER MANZ - and they're sending screens to abuse@neocron.com. All the screens will show is that they got 'teh ownzorD 2 teh max'. It pisses me off that people will slander the name of another just because they've been spitten. You lost, that sucks; learn from it and build a better character or learn to defend yourself (see 1).
LOL,
sad but true........
theyre called 'noobs'
You're a rare pker if people talking to you before or during the attack, or running away, or fighting back, actually might influence you not to kill the victim
There was a group of not really, n00bs... But people with n00b chars in TH...
One was in TH3 idling, so I leave her with a little over 0 health and spam "Boop boop be doop DOOP" again and again so they can look back in local and see my name.
Did they get the clue that TH might not be safe? No. Personally, I would've gotten the hell out of there...
Two others I said "tag" and killed them. Why? Because then they'll say in faction "PKAR D00D IN TH" and the amount of people to attack will increase dramatically.
There ya go.
;)
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 16:50
Originally posted by Marx
Here's what I've noticed.
1.) Victims don't seem to understand the idea of running away or saying something along the lines of "Yo, Chill!" They're like sheep staring into the eyes of a butcher, timid and confused. Perhaps if these people said something before I killed them, I wouldn't have - If they can't be assed to try and defend themselves physically or verbally, I can't be assed to let them live.
What? How often do you even have a chance to speak in PvP. If I see someone that looks like their going to attack me or is attacking me, i'm not going to say "ONOZ, STOP". I'm gonna attack back because I don't have time to type in text. And btw, that's a lame reason you have there for not being "assed" to let them live. lol
Just admit that you wanna kill em.
Originally posted by Marx
2) People will talk shit no matter what. During this killing spree, I only died 3 times; even though there were groups going after me in MB, TH and PP. I would stealth away when things got hot, and lead them around on wild goose chases hoping some of the group members would get bored, figure they can do something more productive elsewhere, and leave - So as the playing feild gets a bit more even. These groups somehow convinced themselves that I'm the scared one, I'm the one without skill - Yet they had 6-12 people after me; yet couldn't even kill me. Why must people talk shit? I made a point of leaving belts alone and I generally give back the stuff I do hack because I'm not a complete asshole.
You're right. I remember going on a killing spree in MB once, finally the clan's "ppu" came and ressed everyone I killed( :rolleyes: ) and they started chasing me and DMed me saying "yea that's right, run pussy". LoL
Originally posted by Marx
3.) People are gullible. There I am in PP - a coupla' hours after the PP kami bit... I need people to kill to meet quota... So I spam "OMG, KAMI'S IN PP", then random bits like "HEAL" or "GET MY BELT"... You know... to give people the impression I'm mistelling something that should be in team or clan chat. People swarmed. People died, albeit not many because the zone line is right there...
:lol:
Reminds me of the time I told that FA droner PKER "YANKBYBLBPPBPBP" or whatever his name is, that I needed him for an epic kill. Then I killed him and didn't res. He came back saying "you mother #*&#$&." :p
Revenge! :p
Originally posted by Marx
6.) No one seems to understand that a PK has fun PKing. If I wanted to hunt warbots... I'd be hunting warbots at that point. If I wanted to OP fight, I'd go with some people to an OP fight. PKing generally leads to 1 on 1 fighting/small group fighting which can be entertaining. I also think it requires more skill because you're generally without support. Granted, it takes no skill to pick off n00bs, but I'm not a complete n00b killer... Only the ones which piss me off. (See 1 & 2)
You must be joking. Of course PKs have fun. But alot of the victims don't have fun. I'm sure you can understand that right? Alot of people don't have good PvP skill or PvP chars, so they don't really stand a chance. So it's understandble they get mad. I'm only talking about people who aren't in PvP clans or at war. People who are at war or are in PvP clans are fair game IMO.
Originally posted by Marx
8.) People immediately think I'm a 10 year old FPS junky who's on the verge of having a heart attack due to excitement every time I kill someone.
I guess it depends on how you portray yourself. I think alot of people often have too many bad experience with the 1337 kiddies who act or say stupid shit. There's a difference between a PK who says nothing after PKing, and one who says "RLOFLOOFL U SUCK COK U CAN'T PVP I UFKCK OWND YER ASS!". I'm not saying you're the latter, i'm just saying that you can understand why they feel the way they do sometimes.
Originally posted by Marx
9.) The minute you beat someone with a grandiose opinion of themselves, you're labled a hacker. According to two different people, I R HACKER MANZ - and they're sending screens to abuse@neocron.com. All the screens will show is that they got 'teh ownzorD 2 teh max'. It pisses me off that people will slander the name of another just because they've been spitten. You lost, that sucks; learn from it and build a better character or learn to defend yourself (see 1).
Yup. :lol:
Either you're a hacker, or they lagged, synched, tripped, had a niece bothering them, was sleepy, high, etc........
Originally posted by Marx
10.) At the end of the PKing day, I look at what I've accomplished and realize it's becoming less and less fruitful. Eventually it will be pointless. Revel in it now folks, because in a coupla' months it will probably be impossible to kill other people outside warzones.
I don't understand why there's all these pk restrictions. Being red isn't realisticly viable, there's a safeslot with a belt that needs stupid hacking skill.
I wish LE was a bone implant, and that you could be in LE clans. That way there's absolutely 100% NO EXCUSE to complain about Pkers and such, and they could ditch some of the restrictions.
Gotterdammerung
29-11-03, 17:01
Can someone please explain to me the purpose of this thread? Expecting to see some discourse into the psychological state of the "whiny victim/PKAR D00D" by my interpretation I'm really just reading a veiled ego post.
Originally posted by Marx
There was a group of not really, n00bs... But people with n00b chars in TH...
One was in TH3 idling, so I leave her with a little over 0 health and spam "Boop boop be doop DOOP" again and again so they can look back in local and see my name.
Did they get the clue that TH might not be safe? No. Personally, I would've gotten the hell out of there...
Two others I said "tag" and killed them. Why? Because then they'll say in faction "PKAR D00D IN TH" and the amount of people to attack will increase dramatically.
There ya go.
;)
Note entirely sure what that has to do with the bit of my post you quoted :)
I was just saying that most pkers I've encountered will kill me whether I run, stay and fight, stand still with a blank look on my face, talk to them, whatever.
Wasn't making any comment on whether people leave when the danger signs are apparent (like in your example). Or whether it serves a purpose to kill noobs (example again).
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Can someone please explain to me the purpose of this thread? Expecting to see some discourse into the psychological state of the "whiny victim/PKAR D00D" by my interpretation I'm really just reading a veiled ego post.
wow a mod with a cynic sense of humour o_O
BlackPrince
29-11-03, 17:14
Ego post? No. He has some very valid points that anyone who's PK'd someone/a group of someones has run across. Here they have their chance to explain their actions after he so well explained his.
This isn't one millionth as egotistical as other 'Ego posts' that get left on for days.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Can someone please explain to me the purpose of this thread? Expecting to see some discourse into the psychological state of the "whiny victim/PKAR D00D" by my interpretation I'm really just reading a veiled ego post.
ONOZ, DON'T CLOSE MEH MR> GOTTERMAN!!!11
:lol:
It has ranting points, things that irked me or I thought 'worth mentioning'. I'm frankly sick and tired of the general view that PKAR D00DS are lil kiddies who're thumping players and their wee willy at the same time.
i'm not going to say "ONOZ, STOP". I'm gonna attack back because I don't have time to type in text
Maybe its my super cool skills, but I can talk as I'm being attacked.
Some people attack Leo Frankowski in PP, I say "Dude!" They stop for a split second "I'm a tradeskiller you no talent asshat!" Then Leo stealths away back into plaza 3. Granted, talking doesn't help much when a APU tosses a bazillion stacks on you, but generally against a PE or Spy you'll be able to throw out text before dying.
and yes, I liked the killing them bit
But alot of the victims don't have fun. I'm sure you can understand that right
I didn't kill alot of people. I killed the ones that had it coming thier way. Another thread pointed this out... Theres almost like... an electonic phermone which people's chars excrete which says, "Kill me". Quite frankly I could've killed way more people than I did and wouldn't have minded doing more missions to restore myself from being red.
However, people who raid aggie cellars are just... yeah.
o_O
There's a difference between a PK who says nothing after PKing, and one who says "RLOFLOOFL U SUCK COK U CAN'T PVP I UFKCK OWND YER ASS!". I'm not saying you're the latter, i'm just saying that you can understand why they feel the way they do sometimes
I would say I'm a polite sociopath. I don't like people, I kill people. I do however respect people - Just not thier wishes. I will not demean them after they lost face as some people do... Because then they have a reason to hate me instead of enjoy the fight/chase/death.
I used to enjoy getting chased around by bigger players who're like "HWAR HAWR U DY @DAY" - It was fucking funny.
Anyway, any person who can stand dying a coupla times needs to turn off their computer for a few days and chill. Dying is a core feature of this game; yet no one likes the idea... WTF?
edit-
I was just saying that most pkers I've encountered will kill me whether I run, stay and fight, stand still with a blank look on my face, talk to them, whatever.
Sorry, rushed the post before running out to grab breakfast... I was just trying to say that I do give time. I'm an asshole, but not a complete asshole.
Granted, not alot of people will do that, there's a silent minority who play that way - and frankly they're the ones who will be going strong in the coming months.
LONG LIVE THE POLITE SOCIOPATHIC PKAR D00DS
Aggy Cellar raids are difficult dude.. not only do you lose SL on every kill, but you'll invariably have to fight the high people who come and fight you coz you pked their noob. i've almost stopped aggy raids, just coz i get nothing out of it. Anyhow, if i shoot the red people everywhere i go, why shouldnt i do it in the aggys?
Originally posted by Marx
Sorry, rushed the post before running out to grab breakfast... I was just trying to say that I do give time. I'm an asshole, but not a complete asshole.
Granted, not alot of people will do that, there's a silent minority who play that way - and frankly they're the ones who will be going strong in the coming months.
Ah right, understood.
Though because of the fact that folks who do give a chance to get away are the minority, in the past I've often not bothered to take any of those apparent chances - since experience said it'd just mean getting shot in the back on the way to a genrep/zoneline instead of in the face (some people liked to get you to run just so you think you're getting away before they kill you.. or wait for you to start to leave then shock you to watch you effectively run on the spot).
I don't like doing aggy celler raids because then I can't kill as many allied/nuetral asshats in PP or any anarchy zone.
:(
Fucking SL system (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83344)
Thats the only reason I don't like them.
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 17:31
Originally posted by Marx
Maybe its my super cool skills, but I can talk as I'm being attacked.
And I can stop breathing. But just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea. And it has nothing to do with skill. Not everyone will stop when you say "wait" or something.
Also i'm apu, so I can't afford to waste time not attacking and HOPING they won't attack me while I try to talk them down. ESPECIALLY if it's another apu. Since apu vs apu lasts about .005 seconds.
Originally posted by Marx
I killed the ones that had it coming thier way. Another thread pointed this out... Theres almost like... an electonic phermone which people's chars excrete which says, "Kill me".
:lol:
Whatever man. I think this is what annoys alot of pk victims, the dishonest or 'denial' attitude that alot of pkers show. They had it coming because somehow they displayed a "weak" aura or some other bullshit. No that doesn't "mean" they had it coming. I think you would get more people to listen if you were just simply 100% honest.
What you're basically saying is "i like to prey on the weak", you know that don't you?
Originally posted by Marx
I would say I'm a polite sociopath. I don't like people, I kill people. I do however respect people - Just not thier wishes. I will not demean them after they lost face as some people do... Because then they have a reason to hate me instead of enjoy the fight/chase/death.
Sugar coating again. And you really think they WON'T hate you because somehow you politely killed them or killed them without insulting them, or some other bs? :p
And here's your second strike against you, you say you don't like people. So first you admit you prey on the weak or people who look defenseless, and now you're saying you don't like people. Yet you somehow complain when anti-pkers say "omggmffm you anti-social bully" and other such stuff.
Originally posted by Marx
I used to enjoy getting chased around by bigger players who're like "HWAR HAWR U DY @DAY" - It was fucking funny.
That's good for you.
Originally posted by Marx
I killed the ones that had it coming thier way. Another thread pointed this out... Theres almost like... an electonic phermone which people's chars excrete which says, "Kill me".
Originally posted by Marx
I would say I'm a polite sociopath. I don't like people,
Originally posted by Marx
I'm an asshole,
;)
Maybe now you see why anti-pkers have the view that they have.
If people are trying to do something, like hunting or level. Who gives you the right to go kill them, giving then SI, and steal the shit out their belt? Its just lame.
If you ask someone for a PvP on the other hand, its a different story. They _also_ get chance to prepare themselves for fight.
Half of the time PKers kill you in 1or2 burts, meaning you have fuck all time to type a responce, and no time to grab a gun.
Dieing isnt fun. Infact its fucking annoying.
You spend a few minutes killing a WBT and you fininaly get to hack it, then when you come out of hackscreen your dead.
Or youre droning in TH Cores, and you see redall over the screen, you drop the drone but its too late, your dead.
If you're idleing in a silly place, or have negative SL its your fault if your PKed :/
But the only reason people PK is because they like to feel powerful.
You never see a PKer of rank ##/54 trying to kill someone ##/74 so why do you see them trying to kill someone ##/34 ? Because their cowards.
So you wanna know the psycology of a PKer? Cowardous, lamers. :P
Basically what im saying is: If you want a 1v1 DM me anytime, but dont kill while im hacking my well earnt WBT!
Originally posted by Marx
Ok, it's less of of a psych paper and more of a rant, but still. It might give insight to the clueless.
For the past two days, I've been running around various locale in the Neocron world killing people. Some were people idling, others newblars, some people who were on their own and seemed cocky.
I was red a coupla times, and had to do missions to get back into 'good' standing...
Overall I killed 31 different people a total of 76 times (outside of OP wars/clan conflicts)...
Here's what I've noticed.
1.) Victims don't seem to understand the idea of running away or saying something along the lines of "Yo, Chill!" They're like sheep staring into the eyes of a butcher, timid and confused. Perhaps if these people said something before I killed them, I wouldn't have - If they can't be assed to try and defend themselves physically or verbally, I can't be assed to let them live.
2) People will talk shit no matter what. During this killing spree, I only died 3 times; even though there were groups going after me in MB, TH and PP. I would stealth away when things got hot, and lead them around on wild goose chases hoping some of the group members would get bored, figure they can do something more productive elsewhere, and leave - So as the playing feild gets a bit more even. These groups somehow convinced themselves that I'm the scared one, I'm the one without skill - Yet they had 6-12 people after me; yet couldn't even kill me. Why must people talk shit? I made a point of leaving belts alone and I generally give back the stuff I do hack because I'm not a complete asshole.
3.) People are gullible. There I am in PP - a coupla' hours after the PP kami bit... I need people to kill to meet quota... So I spam "OMG, KAMI'S IN PP", then random bits like "HEAL" or "GET MY BELT"... You know... to give people the impression I'm mistelling something that should be in team or clan chat. People swarmed. People died, albeit not many because the zone line is right there...
4.) People are entertaining. Some dude walks up to me, I'm in his faction headquarters and his faction is hostile (was bored and entertaining myself with faction guards). So this runner, 21/33 if I recall properly whips out a rifle and says "Get out of my HQ". Quite a ballsy move, so I respond simply, "Put that away, you'll shoot your eye out". Long story short, he starts shooting me to no avail. I couldn't bring myself to shoot him, he was just such a cool dude. I let him know such "I'm not gonna kill you, You're too funny"...
Then he says this: "You PKer fucks are ruining this game". If it was possible to do a double-take in game, I would've... Hell, I did one over on this side of the monitor. So... I kill him, hack his belt, and throw his medkit at him when he comes running back. He picks it up, says "thanks". I kill him again, hack his belt, get a hack tool. He comes back again, I don't kill him this time though. He asks for his hacktool back, and I trade him the hacktool for the medkit I looted earlier.
Then we had a long drawn out conversation which was broken up when 3 faction members stormed in to take me out, I killed him again and ran out of the HQ.
5.) Clans actually are trying to do stuff to make PKAR D00DZ less common. I love running around in MB killing people, the enviroment is just... Quality. Anyway, I kill a coupla' people there and some City Merc runners run up to me. "Hey man, you killing people?", "Some" I respond. "Don't kill people here, or we'll go after you". So I leave for a bit. Come back around 45 minutes later and go at it again. A red City Merc dude runs up. "Dude, PK again and I'll kill you"... He was red... And... I ... Was... Well, it was an situation too good to pass up. I kill him, leave his belt and say simply "You better hurry up before someone else hacks your belt".
At that point I'm personna non gratia in MB, yet I'm still around. I kill a City Admin runner, another City Merc dude (lower level, another ballsy dude) pops up and says "Please don't PK here". I shrug and head to TH again.
6.) No one seems to understand that a PK has fun PKing. If I wanted to hunt warbots... I'd be hunting warbots at that point. If I wanted to OP fight, I'd go with some people to an OP fight. PKing generally leads to 1 on 1 fighting/small group fighting which can be entertaining. I also think it requires more skill because you're generally without support. Granted, it takes no skill to pick off n00bs, but I'm not a complete n00b killer... Only the ones which piss me off. (See 1 & 2)
7.) People like to tote that they're friends with so and so, or is an alt of mr/ms/mrs mucky muck. I can give a crap less because you're either dead or alive based on how you defend yourself (see 1). I don't give a rats ass if you're an alt of some super high powerful clan dude, because frankly; if you wanted to make a more valid point, you'd log on that alt and come own the fuck out of me instead of sending whiny DM's.
8.) People immediately think I'm a 10 year old FPS junky who's on the verge of having a heart attack due to excitement every time I kill someone.
Sorry, I don't get tunnel vision when I chase after someone; I need to keep everything in check... If I don't pay attention and Mr. PPU MANZ comes in a DB's me and paraspams me... Life will suck. Instead the minute I see blue I stealth away to pick on someone who's not with the main group. If I got tunnel vision, I would've died alot more than 3 times.
9.) The minute you beat someone with a grandiose opinion of themselves, you're labled a hacker. According to two different people, I R HACKER MANZ - and they're sending screens to abuse@neocron.com. All the screens will show is that they got 'teh ownzorD 2 teh max'. It pisses me off that people will slander the name of another just because they've been spitten. You lost, that sucks; learn from it and build a better character or learn to defend yourself (see 1).
10.) At the end of the PKing day, I look at what I've accomplished and realize it's becoming less and less fruitful. Eventually it will be pointless. Revel in it now folks, because in a coupla' months it will probably be impossible to kill other people outside warzones.
I Hate You!
And I can stop breathing. But just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea. And it has nothing to do with skill. Not everyone will stop when you say "wait" or something.
*cough* it's called binding keys.
kthx.
so I can't afford to waste time not attacking and HOPING they won't attack me while I try to talk them down. ESPECIALLY if it's another apu
I'm sorry, but I'm referring to the n00bish chars, not n00bs.
;)
Whatever man. I think this is what annoys alot of pk victims, the dishonest or 'denial' attitude that alot of pkers show. They had it coming because somehow they displayed a "weak" aura or some other bullshit. No that doesn't "mean" they had it coming. I think you would get more people to listen if you were just simply 100% honest.
Hell, I wasn't dishonest. I said to most of these people "I'm going to kill you" to wait for a reaction, nothing happened. So I killed them. I didn't steal their shit because I'm generally not going to get anything worthwhile because of the safeslot and undropable epic bullshit.
WOOOHOOO MORE ARMOR, KICKASS.
What you're basically saying is "i like to prey on the weak", you know that don't you?
Well, it's this simple. If they lost to me, they're weak and need to rethink their characters.
I'm not a mass n00b murderer... Simply because we have a lack of n00bs on pluto.
So first you admit you prey on the weak or people who look defenseless, and now you're saying you don't like people. Yet you somehow complain when anti-pkers say "omggmffm you anti-social bully" and other such stuff.
Now that we can guess your age based no the picture you submitted, I must admit it seems you didn't pay attention in your years of schooling.
I said that:
People will talk shit no matter what
No one seems to understand that a PK has fun PKing
People immediately think I'm a 10 year old FPS junky who's on the verge of having a heart attack due to excitement every time I kill someone.
I complain when people think I'm ^^^^
Maybe now you see why anti-pkers have the view that they have.
They have views like they do now because of people with 'forum-egos' much like yourself who like to twirl posts around whilst looking for inconsistancies with which they can spark an argument. They feel you defend them when in fact you take part in the same things I do in game, only you're an asshole about it.
originally posted by Prefetian
I Hate You!
I love you!
Originally posted by some dude named badass who seems to be a whiner contrary to his name
If people are trying to do something, like hunting or level. Who gives you the right to go kill them, giving then SI, and steal the shit out their belt? Its just lame
First off, I kill people who're standing around - the only person I killed in a hunting zone was a CA spy standing by the entrance to MB... I killed him only to watch a Warbot come over the hill a few moments later.
Sorry.
I don't hack belts, if his belt wasn't there *shrug* sucks. Not guilty.
Half of the time PKers kill you in 1or2 burts, meaning you have fuck all time to type a responce, and no time to grab a gun
Um, I only use a blacksun, and I take my time killing people unless they pose an immediate threat (ie APU). So its no like Mr. Cookie Cutter CS tank who runs up says 'LOLZ DED' and offs you with his cannon.
Doesn't work that fast for me, Sorry.
But the only reason people PK is because they like to feel powerful
No, I tradeskill to feel powerful. Nothing is like that rush you get when you're like "Repairing skill 188 (TL376) Researching skill 201" and everyones like "OMG WHERE R U, I NEED STUFF DONE" and you're like "NO, CUZ I DONT LIKE U" and they're like "OMG PLEEZX DO MY STUFF" and I'm like "NO, NOT UNLESS YOU PAY ME GOOD" and they're like " OMG I:KK PAY U ALOT" and I'm like "BRING ME LUBE" and they're like "OK OKOKOKOK" and I'm like "OWNED"
o_O
So you wanna know the psycology of a PKer? Cowardous, lamers. :P
So you wanna know the psycology of a victim? Whiny, crybabies. :P
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 18:03
Originally posted by Marx
Hell, I wasn't dishonest. I said to most of these people "I'm going to kill you" to wait for a reaction, nothing happened. So I killed them. I didn't steal their shit because I'm generally not going to get anything worthwhile because of the safeslot and undropable epic bullshit.
I don't mean dishonest in-game, i mean your constant sugar coating and attempts to justify your actions.
Originally posted by Marx
Well, it's this simple. If they lost to me, they're weak and need to rethink their characters.
I also meant weak in terms of attitude towards someone about to kill them, as well.
Originally posted by Marx
Now that we can guess your age based no the picture you submitted, I must admit it seems you didn't pay attention in your years of schooling.
Look how quickly you display your behavior. :lol:
Those anti-pkers may be wrong about SOME pkers, but they aren't wrong about you from what I can see.
Originally posted by Marx
They have views like they do now because of people with 'forum-egos' much like yourself who like to twirl posts around whilst looking for inconsistancies with which they can spark an argument. They feel you defend them when in fact you take part in the same things I do in game, only you're an asshole about it.
:lol:
Forum ego? Yea ok. :lol:
Yea I do look for inconsistancies. So what? If you're inconsistent, that's your fault. And i don't look for an arguement. You start a thread looking for discussion, and now you're flinging insults first. Yup, you're not a PKar d00d at all. :rolleyes:
I the only people I'ved pked so far are people who've attacked me or enemy clan members. kthx And how am I an asshole about it?
But it's ok Marx, keep on proving how wrong anti-pkers are.
:lol:
EDIT: I'm not really defending them. Just trying to explain to you where they are coming from since you keep saying "why why why why why" because you have no clue why they feel the way they do. Trust me, I have my issues with many anti-pkers as well, but please if you're going to write a long rant, at least be HONEST!
I don't mean dishonest in-game, i mean your constant sugar coating and attempts to justify your actions
I pay monthly to play this game as I like as long as I don't violate any rules posted by Reakktor.
If a person doesn't wish to be attacked and or killed they have ways to take care of that (i.e. LE's, becoming well known, joining a specific faction, etc.)
I don't need to justify anything I do to you or anyone else. I merely wish to provide insight to those who immediately think the PKer is an evilhearted person who likes to rip wings of flies in their freetime.
I also meant weak in terms of attitude towards someone about to kill them, as well.
Seeing as you are not me, and I am not you - you cannot speak about my experiences nor me yours.
Alot of those people chasing me had better weaponry than my blacksun - yet still died.
Hell, the group of four which chased me around PP and the mainsewers... 3 of 4 died multiple times (couldn't kill the PPU, NERF NERF). Yet they, like me were capped.
They were weak because they were overconfident, and that much was obvious before I began attacking.
Look how quickly you display your behavior
I'm a polite sociopath. I don't like people
I'm an asshole
Yeah... and?
o_O
I the only people I'ved pked so far are people who've attacked me or enemy clan members. kthx And how am I an asshole about it?
Remember lil' Hiroshi Oshima? A young droner spy who was hanging in PP...
You killed him repeatedly. He would get rezzed and stand there... You would kill him again and again - Until he GR'd out.
Meanwhile, you were LOLing and all that other shit, acting super cool for your super cool dude friends.
I am Hiroshi Oshima. Thanks to friends who no longer play as frequently I have access to five accounts.
Oh, what about Marxina? My attempt at a monk?
So no, you're not an asshole - not at all.
o_O
But it's ok Marx, keep on proving how wrong anti-pkers are.
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong... Because we all pay to play... And as long as we abide by the rules, we're allowed to do pretty much anything... But this is nothing new, scroll up.
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 18:26
Originally posted by Marx
I pay monthly to play this game as I like as long as I don't violate any rules posted by Reakktor.
If a person doesn't wish to be attacked and or killed they have ways to take care of that (i.e. LE's, becoming well known, joining a specific faction, etc.)
You're absolutely right!
Originally posted by Marx
I don't need to justify anything I do to you or anyone else. I merely wish to provide insight to those who immediately think the PKer is an evilhearted person who likes to rip wings of flies in their freetime.
And i'm providing my insight as well.
Originally posted by Marx
Seeing as you are not me, and I am not you - you cannot speak about my experiences nor me yours.
I was talking in reference to your statement that some people have a "kill me" aura about them. How they basically have a victim scent to them.
Originally posted by Marx
Alot of those people chasing me had better weaponry than my blacksun - yet still died.
Hell, the group of four which chased me around PP and the mainsewers... 3 of 4 died multiple times (couldn't kill the PPU, NERF NERF). Yet they, like me were capped.
Gee Gotter, why ever would you think this is an ego thread?
Originally posted by Marx
Remember lil' Hiroshi Oshima? A young droner spy who was hanging in PP...
You killed him repeatedly. He would get rezzed and stand there... You would kill him again and again - Until he GR'd out.
Meanwhile, you were LOLing and all that other shit, acting super cool for your super cool dude friends.
I am Hiroshi Oshima. Thanks to friends who no longer play as frequently I have access to five accounts.
Oh, what about Marxina? My attempt at a monk?
So no, you're not an asshole - not at all.
Acting super cool for my friends? ROFLMAO! You're the one writing this egoist post trying to explain how you're an asshole and a sociopath who's 1337 and can take on multiple people, etc....
Yea I killed you repeatedly. Because he(you) was Dark and an enemy of mine. And also because I explain to Dark(at that time) that I would have no mercy on them or any of their members as long as they let cryptochronic run around breaking clan rules and causing trouble since they weren't doing anything to control their uncivilized members.
But you forgot to mention those 2 little facts right? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Marx
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong... Because we all pay to play... And as long as we abide by the rules, we're allowed to do pretty much anything...
Duh!
originally posted by sd
Yea I killed you repeatedly. Because he(you) was Dark and an enemy of mine. And also because I explain to Dark(at that time) that I would have no mercy on them or any of their members as long as they let cryptochronic run around breaking clan rules and causing trouble.
But you forgot to mention those 2 little facts right?
Hiroshi and Marxina were never in DarK. And in fact whilst conversing between deaths as Marxina, you found out I was Marx. Woohoo.
In fact Hiroshi was going to be a spy in one of the prominent tangent clans at the time, only things went down hill before he was of age.
Doh, sorry to shoot you down like that.
originally posted by sd
I was talking in reference to your statement that some people have a "kill me" aura about them. How they basically have a victim scent to them.
And I refer to this.
originally posted my teh marxeh
They were weak because they were overconfident, and that much was obvious before I began attacking.
originally posted by sd
Gee Gotter, why ever would you think this is an ego thread?
Well one needs examples do they not? How else will one describe their actions to make a point?
Originally posted by Marx from dimension-X
Durrr, there were some dudes... and I like... killed 'em up a coupla times... and I was liek COOL, and I like had to run and stuff or else they woulda like killed me and um... it woulda' been bad.
It doesn't have the same point proving power, now does it.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by sd
Acting super cool for my friends? ROFLMAO! You're the one writing this egoist post trying to explain how you're an asshole and a sociopath who's 1337 and can take on multiple people, etc....
Now you're just looking to spark something to add to that postcount of yours.
Shadow, if you can't appreciate what's posted - Tough. Read into it however you want; but I've not the patience or means to continue fencing with you over minute points (Jimmy Neutrons on!)
o_O
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 18:42
Originally posted by Marx
Hiroshi and Marxina were never in DarK. And in fact whilst conversing between deaths as Marxina, you found out I was Marx. Woohoo.
Sorry, that's a big fat lie. I NEVER EVER EVER attack n00bs who have no affiliation to an enemy clan and aren't people who've attacked me in the past. Btw, Marxina is marx? omg! lol
Please Marx, if you can only LIE to try and prove your point then don't bother.
Originally posted by Marx
Well one needs examples do they not? How else will one describe their actions to make a point?
Yes please give us more examples of your heroic deeds, so we can "understand" your PKAR NATURE!
Originally posted by Marx
Now you're just looking to spark something to add to that postcount of yours.
I couldn't possibly care less about postcount. I've even asked for it to be removed.
Originally posted by Marx
Shadow, if you can't appreciate what's posted - Tough. Read into it however you want;
"Appreciate" what you post? Oh lord. I responded to each of your points, that's it. I agreed with some, I disagreed with others. I'm mainly disagreeing with your sugar coating and denial.
And if you don't want people picking apart your posts, then why the hell are you posting? Then you don't want a discussion. You might as well have asked Gotter to close the thread after your first post.
well it was a the opening post was a nice read.
the say something to you part of the post im not 100% agreeing with you, hell if i attack i dont care if the person says stop, leave me alone, im a alt of your clan or anything once i start on a person either they die or i die, ill deal with the repocussions later.
it sounds like you had fun, and thats what it should be, and i find as long as you dont kill the same guy 10 times in a minute most people are cool with it.
are a few exeptions, killed one fucker who decided to give me a pilosaphy(crap spelling i know :p)lesson over direct chat about killing people:lol:
i find it funny when you kill someone and they start talking shit over direct at you like they just owned you, like hello you the guy picking up you backpack not me
ugh id have more to say but gotta log(nooo gotta go the shops ffs:mad: )
Originally posted by sd
Sorry, that's a big fat lie. I NEVER EVER EVER attack n00bs who have no affiliation to an enemy clan and aren't people who've attacked me in the past. Btw, Marxina is marx? omg! lol
Please Marx, if you can only LIE to try and prove your point then don't bother
Originally posted by sd
Yea I killed you repeatedly.
So that was just a brainfart... You sneezed as you were typing, right?
:rolleyes:
Yes please give us more examples of your heroic deeds, so we can "understand" your PKAR NATURE!
Dude, I merely point out those facts so as people see that a PKAR MANZ isn't a n00b greifer... Because that just so happens to be the most popular conception of what a PKer is.
And if you don't want people picking apart your posts, then why the hell are you posting? Then you don't want a discussion. You might as well have asked Gotter to close the thread after your first post.
This isn't discussion, this is you trying to prove you're right.
:lol:
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 18:55
Originally posted by Marx
So that was just a brainfart... You sneezed as you were typing, right?
:rolleyes:
It's a lie that you had no affiliation with dark and that I didn't know who were. Not that I didn't kill you.
Jesus. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Marx
Dude, I merely point out those facts so as people see that a PKAR MANZ isn't a n00b greifer... Because that just so happens to be the most popular conception of what a PKer is.
Their are many conceptions of what a PKER is. And not all "pkar manz" ignore n00bs, some of them are indeed n00b griefers.
Originally posted by Marx
This isn't discussion, this is you trying to prove you're right.
:lol:
I'm stating an opinion, not trying to prove that i'm right.
It's a lie that you had no affiliation with dark and that I didn't know who were. Not that I didn't kill you.
What association would a lil' tangent droner spy have with DarK?
It sort of kills the idea of being a spy if people know you're affilated with the enemy of the clan you're trying to infiltrate.
Their are many conceptions of what a PKER is. And not all "pkar manz" ignore n00bs, some of them are indeed n00b griefers
A PK is any person who kills another player - OP wars are full of PKers...
Yet when someone utters the term "PK" only the worst is thought.
I want that to change, is that something to be frowned upon?
Mumblyfish
29-11-03, 19:03
Originally posted by Marx
Mumbly sucks
Yay! I got a mention :D
Like hell I was going to attack you alone. I suck. I do the clever thing and wait for lots of bestest buddies to help out!
Going back to the original post, I think I know who "the" "CityMercs" "guys" are. And to be frank, I think I'm KoS with them too. I love allied factions.
Oh, and fucking hilarious thread you've got here. I laughed myself stupid no less than three times. Give yourself a badge. Or a sticker. Pick your poison!
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 19:03
Originally posted by Marx
A PK is any person who kills another player - OP wars are full of PKers...
Technically you're right.
Originally posted by Marx
Yet when someone utters the term "PK" only the worst is thought.
Because the most common of definition of PK is someone who kills anybody or everybody, as opposed to people killing out of clan wars and such.
Originally posted by Marx
I want that to change, is that something to be frowned upon?
I don't think it's a bad thing to want to change it, I just don't think you're doing a good job of it and I don't think you fully understand the "victim's" side.
I don't think you fully understand the "victim's" side.
I've been vicimtized since beta 4.
Er... That doesn't sound right but I'm not going to change it.
The thing new players have to understand is that yes, the world put forth by this game is supposed to be a harsh place. Yes, this game revolves around PvP. Yes, there are ways to make yourself a noncombatant via physical (LE) and non physical (being friendly with everyone... Like Zu =D) means.
Any person who dies repeatedly has only themselves to blame.
They could've handled the situation in different ways, and the way they decided to handle it led to their demise.
Granted there are assholes in the world, but that will never change; the only thing 'victims' can do is find a way to become a noncombatant character or build their character to fight back.
Beanie McChimp
29-11-03, 19:19
The two Pkers that really reall ypiss me off is either nOOb PKers or random pkers i mean like one time I was at crp with my 12/17 monk apu (yes I know its high level but I had no other gr's) and I was just there looking for team and get one and im about to go in to the cave the whole group goes in then one uTs apu and 1 uTs ppu waits the apu is obviously buffed to the max they are both really high level then I get fire apoced and then I die I went back to get belt but I think hmmm ill ask why they pkd me as im a nOOb and the apu says "stfu nOOb" ( I know the perfect stereotype) so I say "go fuck yerself cunt" and leg it an I SURVIVED
Originally posted by Marx
Any person who dies repeatedly has only themselves to blame.
or the dickhead killing them.
There arnt always ways to stop gettin killed.
LE stops you being ion clans, as well as many other dissadvantegs.
the game DOESNT revolve around PvP. it is only one aspect of the game. and if someone doesnt wanna fucking PK, why PK them?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I Love You!
Ewww.........I Don't want to Have "teh bumbum Seckse" with you.
You're Yucki.
Shadow Dancer
29-11-03, 20:22
Wrong person Prefetian.
Originally posted by BaDDaSS
or the dickhead killing them.
There arnt always ways to stop gettin killed.
LE stops you being ion clans, as well as many other dissadvantegs.
the game DOESNT revolve around PvP. it is only one aspect of the game. and if someone doesnt wanna fucking PK, why PK them?
Oh, so we're all in factions just so we have a cool line of text over our body?
Outposts are just there for asthetic value?
The weapons in game are just a farce?
The game revolves around PvP, live with it.
As for the why PK them comment... If you're red to me, my faction is at war with your faction - Your faction jeopardizes my factions' way of life. I must ensure the survival of my faction and ensure the demise of yours.
If you don't like it, switch to a better more neutral faction, ala ProtoPharma. Or, pop in an LE - Or you can provide services which people will rely on you for. Once you're well known as a trader - only the true 'greifers' will kill you.
And there are fewer 'greifers' now than there were in the past. You probably weren't even here for the worst of it.
Ewww.........I Don't want to Have "teh bumbum Seckse" with you.
You're Yucki.
For all you know, I'm Carmen Electra.
Ok....so let me get this straight?
You create a Thread about PK'ing and you want others to sympethize with you or something?
Fortunatly I haven't been PK'd much in any online games, but when I did it wasn't fun.
Except for this one time when I got Pk'd in UO and followed the PK'er back to his house and remembered the trail how to get back there, so I came back fully eqiupped (I had sort of an Assasin Char so :D ) and waited in his house (I broke in) for about 30-40 minutes untill he cam back.
He back,walked in through the door and went up the stairs where I was standing in a corner hidden and well prepared. As soon as I noticed he got occupied with putting crap into his chest I lunged out at him with my poisoned sword and struck him down. Then after I Quickly looted his house (as much as i could carry) and teleported away I found out that the little whiner put a bounty on my head, but it wasn't high enough so nobody went after me.
Now that's how I like to deal with Random PK'ers, I have no idea if anything like this is possible in Neocron but it should be just to teach you little bastards a lesson not to mess with the wrong person. Because If you kill me it doesn't neseserely mean you have "skill" , it might just mean you cought me by surprise and managed to overpower me at that moment. That's why I love this quote "Revenge Is A Dish Best Served Cold!" .
Maybe one day you'd learn just how "fun" it is to PK when something like that would happen to you.
Originally posted by Marx
For all you know, I'm Carmen Electra.
For all I know you're the Pillsbury Doughboy :confused:
You create a Thread about PK'ing and you want others to sympethize with you or something?
I don't want sympathy, I want to provide insight to those who don't understand.
As for UO, I was one of the best known disarm theives on the atlantic server... Then due to 'improper placement' I lost my tower with all my YEARS of work. Thats when I said screw it and moved on to Dark Age of Camelot. Played the PvP server, got bored with it because it's so linear and found this game.
I have no idea if anything like this is possible in Neocron
Before the drop rules were changed for the worse, you used to be able to get anything on the person you killed, even his or her weapon.
Was great when you were able to take down a dude trying to kill you... Take his weapon (no belts) and sell it back to him, or use it, etc.
*sigh*
Memories.
Maybe one day you'd learn just how "fun" it is to PK when something like that would happen to you
The best PK is born from a victim.
Stew on that for awhile
;)
For all I know you're the Pillsbury Doughboy
Then stop posting and make me some croissants.
Originally posted by Marx
As for UO, I was one of the best known disarm theives on the atlantic server... Then due to 'improper placement' I lost my tower with all my YEARS of work.
That will Teach you not to use Exploits ( I honestly don't believe that but you got waht you deserved :D)
The best PK is born from a victim.
Ummm........How About, NO!
Then stop posting and make me some croissants.
You Wish, Fatty :p
That will Teach you not to use Exploits ( I honestly don't believe that but you got waht you deserved )
Seeing as I purchased the tower off someone for 30 someodd million gold...
:rolleyes:
Ummm........How About, NO!
Shows ya' how much you understand psychology.
You Wish, Fatty
Who's the doughboy?
:rolleyes:
MarX
Outposts are just there for asthetic value?
---------
OP wars.
The weapons in game are just a farce?
---------
PvM?
PKing is totally different to OP wars.
PKing is dumb, for no reason killing.
OP WARS are arranged fights. Like PvP, both of which i agree with.
OP wars = PvP
PK = PvP.
:rolleyes:
PvM?
Stop giving me that mad face. It doesn't suit you.
You are given the option to use weapons in a world where your ENEMY IS CLEARLY DEFINED. EVEN HIS/HER CLAN/FACTION TITLE SHOWS UP RED.
LIKE BULL YOU MUST CHARGE, KILL KILL KILL RED, ONOZ, RED KILL KILL.
Buddahs balls in a vice, stop dancing the mambo around the fact and live with it.
PKing is dumb, for no reason killing
So I guess you want Pepper Park to be a safe zone, because PKing is all that goes on in there... Seeing as it's not an OP and all.
Originally posted by MJS, PREZ OF TEH KK
PvP _is_ a base element of the game. That also means that we want to give more freedom to the players and give _you_ the tools to go against random PKers. Hey, it's a post-apocalyptic cyberpunk world, so why don't you realize that there are some amok weirdos going postal?
Originally posted by Prefetian
Ummm........How About, NO!
In -94 I started playing MUDs, logged on to one called Aarchon
and started an Assassin char, they start with the K flag on
(without it you cant harm other players, you also need to be
within 5 levels of eachother so people made special noob-killing
chars that they used to kill newly created assassins, such as
me :/) and within 30 minutes I had been PKed. I sworn then that
I would get the little twat if it was the last thing I did, so I made
another char which was a little less gimped, and started playing
for real. I was in the worst underdog clan on the MUD which
everyone despised, and we were constantly attacked by the best
PKers on the MUD. One year later I was decent, another year
later and I was one of the 10 best PKers on the mud. Another
year later I managed to kill one notorious PKer named Coffee and
looted him dry, it was the last straw for him and he deleted.
When he was cycling through his chars deleting them one at a
time I saw the noob-killing char, "Grandma", log on and then
delete. Took me three years but I got my vengeance, and by then
I was most likely the best PvP player on the mud. Now, who do
you think developed more as a PvPer, me, fighting against the
top notch fighters all day every day, they handing me my ass in
20 different ways every day, showing me how a good beating is
administrated, or them, fighting inferior players which proved no
real challange?
I come to think of Vin Diesel in Knockaround Boys or what thats
movie is called, when he talks about that as a kid he figured that
it would take 500 streetfights and then youd be tough as nails,
but after a few hundred you lose count, and then you realise that
you are.
I have to admit, this thread is great for a laugh. Seriously, it is.
J. Folsom is your master.
Anyway, to at least make it seem as if I'm contributing, I ersonally seriously like PKers, sure they might cost you a little time, but at least it's more thrilling then killing Warbot #398703710, personally I always make a point of it to try and fight back, I enjoy that, the PKer enjoys that, so it's a win-win situation for us both. Sure, I might lost something in the process, but usually it's nothing you can't get back if you're willing to spend a little time on it.
J. Folsom is your master.
So umm... People just need to lighten up. :P
KRIMINAL99
29-11-03, 21:30
lol... so everyone should bind "PLZ NO I HAVE A FAMILY THAT NEEDS ME" to a key in case a pker comes along?
People don't have the time to talk usually when being pked... I agree with what your saying after being pked once... that if they just ask not to be they probably wont be.
And if they get flaming mad then they were planning on proving to the world that they were going to be the best pvper to ever exist, in which case they are fair game obviously...
but yeah this is a veiled ego post lol
So umm... People just need to lighten up. :P
I agree, doubly so.
lol... so everyone should bind "PLZ NO I HAVE A FAMILY THAT NEEDS ME" to a key in case a pker comes along
I think that would certainly lighten up the atmosphere. I wouldn't kill the person because frankly, I would be laughing too hard to aim.
but yeah this is a veiled ego post lol
*shrug* It's providing entertainment. It's providing insight.
And it's showing that if YOU DON'T FUCKING TIP LEO FRANKOWSKI WELL WHEN HE REPAIRS OR RESEARCHES YOUR SHIT, YOU MIGHT END UP DEAD!
D-E-D... DEAD!
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
People don't have the time to talk usually when being pked... I agree with what your saying after being pked once... that if they just ask not to be they probably wont be.
Exactly. A relaxed attitude to dying (Even if it wasn't what you wanted) tends to make people friendler all round.
btw, J Folsam is my master? o_O Don't think so you subliminal spammer you. :p
Originally posted by Archeus
btw, J Folsam is my master? o_O Don't think so you subliminal spammer you. :p :p
I was waiting for someone to say that.
Look, over there! It's a three-headed monkey!
yanbybkipbbpbbp
29-11-03, 21:57
Do not bother Marx, this game is unredeemable.
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
Do not bother Marx, this game is unredeemable.
its so unredeemable that you still hang around the forum postingo_O
Originally posted by Marx
Seeing as I purchased the tower off someone for 30 someodd million gold...
as I said, you deserved it (well at least the ones who kicked ya out thought so) :D
Shows ya' how much you understand psychology.
Actually I got your point, only that my answer is still no. (ooohwz noo.........I got bullied by kids in school so now that I get a chance I can grow up To Be The Besdt Bully myself, ack stackars mej).
"Who's the doughboy?"
- Says the Guy choking on a Twinkie :angel:
Originally posted by Rade
I come to think of Vin Diesel in Knockaround Boys or what thats
movie is called, when he talks about that as a kid he figured that
it would take 500 streetfights and then youd be tough as nails,
but after a few hundred you lose count, and then you realise that
you are.
Knockaround Guys
But close enough
Originally posted by Marx
OP wars = PvP
PK = PvP.
That's correct in general BUT (and this is a big ass but) the fineprint says.
OP Wars = Regulated Clan/Faction War
PK = Senseless Psychotic Killing Spree (You know, to put that into psychology brainy thingamajiggy it would be sort of when a guy buys a big friggin SUV to make up for something else he lacks :rolleyes: )
<Edit> Ohh....and you're giving a bad name to Marxsism (or however it's spelled) you pinko commie (lol) :D </Edit>
Originally posted by Prefetian
Actually I got your point, only that my answer is still no. (ooohwz noo.........I got bullied by kids in school so now that I get a chance I can grow up To Be The Besdt Bully myself, ack stackars mej).
Those that are abused as children have an 86% chance of becoming an abuser themselves as the grow older.
Anyway this is ridiculous, if you frown on 'PKing outside OP wars' get the fuck out of the game I've learned to love, people like you have fucked it up enough already.
OP Wars = Regulated Clan/Faction War
I PK faction enemies. He/She's red, my faction wants me to kill him/her.
How is PKing unregulated?
PK = Senseless Psychotic Killing Spree (You know, to put that into psychology brainy thingamajiggy it would be sort of when a guy buys a big friggin SUV to make up for something else he lacks )
No, PK = player killing.
SENSELESS PSYCHOTING SDAIFJNASKDVNEIRFCN<XVM = Greifing.
There's a not so subtle difference between the two. Learn it - then come back here and we'll converse properly.
Ohh....and you're giving a bad name to Marxsism (or however it's spelled) you pinko commie (lol)
Marxism is not communism. Once again, there is a not so subtle difference. Call a Marxist Reformist a commie, and you'll be in for an unpleasant 20 minutes as he/she sits you down and describes the difference.
Says the Guy choking on a Twinkie
Twinkies are nasty - I prefer cupcakes.
Least I don't go 'woohoo' when complete strangers pokes my stomach.
Originally posted by Marx
[B][QUOTE]Anyway this is ridiculous, if you frown on 'PKing outside OP wars' get the fuck out of the game I've learned to love, people like you have fucked it up enough already.
I Sense a lot of anger within you.
And no.......i wasn't really going to Play Neocron because it was going to become very time consuming, but now, I'd do it just to spite fuckers like you :D
Those that are abused as children have an 86% chance of becoming an abuser themselves as the grow older.
Guess that pretty much explains your childhood o_O
There's a not so subtle difference between the two. Learn it - then come back here and we'll converse properly.
I think it's you who should learn that there is a diffirence.
We can take a real world example on this one:
If there is a war between two countries then the soldiers are , well soldiers and both sides are prepared to die for what they believe in.
And in these countries we have just common criminals/murderers (PKers) who when get caugt also get punished. Because they are most likely killing innocent people.And these Criminals/murders are the lowest types human beings that walk this earth and everyone turns their head in disgust when they see them.
Now if you don't get those diffirences then there is something wrong with your moral perspective of things.
Marxism is not communism. Once again, there is a not so subtle difference. Call a Marxist Reformist a commie, and you'll be in for an unpleasant 20 minutes as he/she sits you down and describes the difference.
Yes......I know it's not the same. But Communism spawned from Marxism and became a twisted thought of a good idea.
Just said that to spite you, hence the pinko Commie comment ;)
Twinkies are nasty - I prefer cupcakes.
Least I don't go 'woohoo' when complete strangers pokes my stomach.
Well maybe you should try it sometime instead of saying "Give It To Me Baby" and looking at them like they owed you money. :D
Post Scriptum.
Twinkiws ownzors j00
Lord Mansion
30-11-03, 13:09
I kind of agree with Goddamnmerung.
The title of this thread is misleading
I don't see the fun in attacking individuals who have no way of defending themselves, its like hitting a child.
Beanie McChimp
30-11-03, 14:32
Originally posted by Marx
The game revolves around PvP, live with it.
Oh excuse me I thought it was a game where people play to have fun and not be harassed by dickhead random Pkers.
KramerTheWeird
30-11-03, 14:39
The game is what people make it...
...so make it the way you want to. Just consider that not everyone will agree.
98% of all statistics are all made up on the spot - spike miligan
The bit I don't understand is, what do people expect? This is post apocalypse, and in the majority of cases PKing occurs in the lawless regions, i.e. the wastelands. If you say, in RL, walk down a dark alley at night in a rough area of a city, and you get mugged by a guy with a knife, do you cry and and honestly believe it was unexpected? Going into the wastelands is probably the equivalent of wandering around in the Columbian jungle. Chances are you won't bump into anyone, but if you do meet a crazed freedom fighter/terrorist (delete as appropriate) would you be shocked if he shot you? You label TG as terrorists, then cry when they behave as such?
And what annoys me is when people talk about every PKer always targetting newbs. You accuse them of random violence, but then say they discriminate? PKers don't just kill newbs. They kill everyone. Though personally I tend to refer to PKers as enemy faction killers, and RPKers as people who kill everyone regardless of faction. By that definition, I am a PKer. I don't kill newbs straight away on sight in places like Pepper, because they're probably just trying to level. If I'm at MB on the other hand, I will slaughter the lot of them, in order to get a response from the high level players and have a good fight.
Besides, without PKers things get very dull. Some of my most exciting moments in the game were being chased by Starkes though the halls of MB. Me, a rifle spy, stuck with a puny Archer Companion Rifle, him, a capped, insanely fast pistol PE with a Liberator. When I saw his name on local I found my heart thumping, and I ran for my life. And I ENJOYED it. It pissed me off a little at the same time, but it was still exciting, and I realised, that's what this game is all about. Excitement. If it's not exciting, it gets dull. And straight PvM and OP wars is not exciting.
I guess times have changed. In the days when I used to get killed by Starkes, people actually fought him off. We banded together in huge groups and chased him across the map. Now people just sit there and cry.
Couldnt agree more sci - I had more fun being a victim in the
early retail than I ever had being ubar leet haxor pkar.
Originally posted by Beanie McChimp
Oh excuse me I thought it was a game where people play to have fun and not be harassed by dickhead random Pkers.
I have fun. I'm well within the rules killing you. You need to find a way to cope.
kthx.
_________________________________
Scikar, I also agree heartily with what you said.
People take dying way too seriously nowadays. The take it personally when someone kills them. People need to chill.
And what annoys me is when people talk about every PKer always targetting newbs. You accuse them of random violence, but then say they discriminate? PKers don't just kill newbs. They kill everyone
It's funny, I talk about killing people of similar rank throughout this thread, and people still take it that I'm a noob greifer.
:lol:
I guess times have changed. In the days when I used to get killed by Starkes, people actually fought him off. We banded together in huge groups and chased him across the map. Now people just sit there and cry.
*sigh*
Wish it wasn't so, but it is.
Originally posted by Lord Mansion
I don't see the fun in attacking individuals who have no way of defending themselves, its like hitting a child.
So I guess killing off 2 tanks and a PE who had a PPU whilst chasing me is like hitting a child.
o_O
Learn to read you daft bastard.
Lord Mansion
30-11-03, 19:04
Originally posted by Marx
Learn to read you daft bastard.
Ah that was to be expected.
Where did it say I was referring to you?
A little defensive aren't you?
Did kids pick on you at school?
to be fair marx, you admitted to kill noobs as well as people who can defend themselves...
Did kids pick on you at school
Actually, in all fairness I sit in back of an ambulance during a good chunk of my free time.
I sit above the par in my classes, hence why I don't have to put up with most of the 'bullshit' that goes with schooling.
to be fair marx, you admitted to kill noobs as well as people who can defend themselves
Yes, but frankly I'm sick and tired of...
when people talk about every PKer always targetting newbs
Hence why I'm the way I am in regards to folk who speak out their ass.
The only true noob I killed in my spree was the dude in his faction HQ, all other lowbies were alts of people.
Hell, even he was probably an alt of someone based on the fact that he was in a particular clan and the 3 peeps that charged in were also in that clan...
people seem to forget there's no such thing as a noob on pluto
I fight to fight and be entertained... I can't be entertained by winning hands down.
Originally posted by Marx
I don't like doing aggy celler raids because then I can't kill as many allied/nuetral asshats in PP or any anarchy zone.
:(
Fucking SL system (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83344)
Thats the only reason I don't like them.
Yup and thats why the SL system is as it is, so u don't like pk'ing there :D
I did prefer it in the early stages of retail, when there were no 'hunting zones'. It's the one thing that made me want to continue playing.
I remember getting PKd by some tank in Via Rosso sewers, so I call out in zone chat that there is someone pking down in the sewer and within about a minute, a team of higher ranked tangents were there, to buff me up and kill the PKer. It was a lot of fun hunting him down in the sewers, far better than killing rats for sure. At that stage in the game, I had to watch my back _everywhere_ I went.. that was where the fun was.
Safeslots/hunting zones/belt drops have been a major nerf to the fun in this game, in my opinion.
And PVP is a major part of this game, why else would you be able to do it virtually ANYWHERE?
i wanna be able to kill City admins on the very steps of the admin building:mad:
When I get pk'ed it annoys me since it's either on my newb alt who is a tradeskiller mostly, or like the last three times my main character has been pk'ed, when NC crashes or i get major sync problems. But I accept it. It is part of the game after all. I dont expect to go to MB and be greated with open arms. If I'm going to be there, it's to fight. I do however not like killing newbies, or having my newbie killed (which is why my LE is back in). I mean seriously....what chance has a person who is primarily a trade skiller and still low lvl, against a capped runner with rare weps out the wazoo? None. Thats the biggest part of pking that pisses me off, and the excuses for it are just as pathetic.
But like I said...part of the game. You deal with it and carry on.
Originally posted by Marx
The only true noob I killed in my spree was the dude in his faction HQ, all other lowbies were alts of people.
Hell, even he was probably an alt of someone based on the fact that he was in a particular clan and the 3 peeps that charged in were also in that clan...
people seem to forget there's no such thing as a noob on pluto
I fight to fight and be entertained... I can't be entertained by winning hands down. [/B]
nOOB is a term for a low lvl character whether and alt or a genuine new player its does not change the fact that the player alt or not stands no chance and there is not way u can justify it by saying "Oh there alts an enemy" or such like
If someone has an alt there chars should be treated as seperate players unless they give you a reason not to.
Killing ppl because of there alts is lame
A newbie is a person that is new to a game and dont fully grasp it yet.
A lowbie is a person that grasps the game but is currently low level.
Theres quite a difference.
Killing ppl because of there alts is lame
Killing the alt of a person will generally make them grab their stronger alt to fight me.
Providing me (and them though I doubt they'd admit it) with entertainment.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Rade
A newbie is a person that is new to a game and dont fully grasp it yet.
A lowbie is a person that grasps the game but is currently low level.
Exactly.
Psycho Killa
30-11-03, 22:24
Omg i cant beleive how carebearish some people are.
If you dont wanna pk or be pked put ur fucking le in or dont whine...
Omg i cant join a clan with my le in. WELL GUESS WHAT THE IDEA OF A CLAN IS TO TAKE OVER OUTPOSTS AND KILL PEOPLE HOW WILL U DO THAT WITH A FUCKING LE IN.
If you want to play a game where all you do is kill mobs then your playing the wrong fucking game. Not because this game revolves around pvp but because theres tons of other games out there that are 1000 times better for just kiling computer ai over and over til u reach the next boring level.
I know im ranting but i just get aggravated when people complain about being pked when there are already measures in the game to defend against it
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - spam ]
[ edited because it was edited ]
[ insert mental image of Lawrence from Office Space saying: "Fucking A" (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/images/hehe/celebs/fuckin_A.gif) ]
My sentiments exactly Psycho.
marx, you had a good start; you gained support from the gullible brown-nosers, you had logical counters, and you certainly did well in the shock aspect. But, in the end, you just gave up and made it personal. :(
marx, you had a good start; you gained support from the gullible brown-nosers, you had logical counters, and you certainly did well in the shock aspect. But, in the end, you just gave up and made it personal
Mainly because the attacks themselves became personal.
I'm not going to martyr myself figuritivily for the sake of changing peoples opinions. That's not my job or motive. In the beginning I hoped some sort of nice polite conversation might follow, instead I'm proclaimed and heralded as an evil n00b slaughtering asshat.
*shrug*
I'm not going to bother trying to prove people wrong at this point, even though they're blatently wrong in most cases - the simple fact is, I play within the rulesets. That said, it's everyone else who isn't of like mind that must work around that fact (and me by direct connection).
Not I around them.
The world provides the means to live safely, it's just that most of those playing are too stuck up, cocky, and or arrogant to bother using those means.
I play this game for enjoyment. I enjoy fighting, I enjoy wreaking havoc, I enjoy being a proactive anarchist. This game provides me a means to behave as I would like to in real life if I wasn't restricted by social mores and laws (You know, bunny hopping, whilst gunning down people with red highlighted faction titles; chewing anti-shock tablets when policemen try to tazer me, etc etc). 8|
Granted, my actions in game may jeopardize the enjoyment of said game by another. However, that's their fault. If they don't wish to be viewed as a target, they have many ways to make it so they aren't; Since they died, it's obvious they didn't bother employing any of those methods.
:confused:
Anyway, didn't they think that dying alot during gameplay was a distinct possibility when reviewing the forums? Looking at the back of the box? Reading the description on the Neocron site?
As has been said, PvP plays a pivitol role in this game; literally everything revolves around it in one form or another...
Eventually you'll die at the hands of another.
And it's better me than some... Douche.
:lol:
Marx, you pk exactly like i do.
The trouble is, no matter what you do, if killing is what you'll do, you're labeled shallow, or kiddie-ish.
Back in the days before belt droppage, i'd take all, then if the person send a direct telling i'm stupid, fucker, n00bish, whatever i'd keep it. If they're politely asking for it back, i'd give it back plus a few k's of creds.
Marx, people are too carebearish.
Intelligent Pk'ing is where it's at. If you disagree, keep your le in n00b. ^_^ :angel: :angel: :p
First, I give shit about PKers. I pity 'em. My ethics and understanding humans means that I don't attack anyone under my rank or not using good gun because I know that he got no change to defend himself. But when I see someone higher than me in a proper place and not hunting, I usually fire first and see reaction. If it's aggressive, I will start attacking (Usually I die because I pick stronger person :p ) but if his afk or says something about "Leave me alone", I walk away. Generally speaking, I'm a carebear. I am not ashamed to say it but I help nubies. I usually go to aggies and heal nubies there and help em :) .. and hand out 100k to em.
I wonder if any PKer do same o_O :angel: :D
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 09:56
Originally posted by LVirus
............ethics and understanding humans.............................................. Generally speaking, I'm a carebear.
Originally posted by LVirus
Only thing I have done ingame is to steal rares from belts in caves .. I know, It's lowest of all lowest but I cannot resist myself if there is rare in belt. No people should keep 2 rares in caves while hunting .. its absurd. Teaches 'em.
Beside, stupid people don't deserve their cash or stuff.
Interesting...........
Originally posted by LVirus
First, I give shit about PKers. I pity 'em. My ethics and understanding humans means that I don't attack anyone under my rank or not using good gun because I know that he got no change to defend himself. But when I see someone higher than me in a proper place and not hunting, I usually fire first and see reaction. If it's aggressive, I will start attacking (Usually I die because I pick stronger person :p ) but if his afk or says something about "Leave me alone", I walk away. Generally speaking, I'm a carebear. I am not ashamed to say it but I help nubies. I usually go to aggies and heal nubies there and help em :) .. and hand out 100k to em.
I wonder if any PKer do same o_O :angel: :D
I used to help n00bs in the server, and if they ask to stop politely, then i hand them some cash....but i kill indescriminately. Hell, some allied dudes once looked at me wrong, so i wasted em'.
Can't someone just be Chaotic Neutral for once? ^_^
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 10:40
What will these whiney nooblars do when and if they implement anarchy breed. (Why fix starter emails if ur never gonna have them :) )
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
What will these whiney nooblars do when and if they implement anarchy breed. (Why fix starter emails if ur never gonna have them :) )
goddamn....damn straight. i started a fucking clan three times with that name under TG because i couldn't pick the faction -_-;;
Please lets get the AB in there!!! (and the insect faction, for laughs :p)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Interesting...........
I know, I am twisted and wicked person ;).
Basicly speaking, those who got rares arent newbies in MY eyes. I was talking about NEWBIES and those who are WEAKER than me.
Re-read ? :p
Originally posted by Artie
I used to help n00bs in the server, and if they ask to stop politely, then i hand them some cash....but i kill indescriminately. Hell, some allied dudes once looked at me wrong, so i wasted em'.
Can't someone just be Chaotic Neutral for once? ^_^
Being Chaotic Neutral does not mean what you do. How about actually caring about people? :angel:
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 10:59
hehe, it'd be cool if this game had DnD alignments.
Originally posted by LVirus
Being Chaotic Neutral does not mean what you do. How about actually caring about people? :angel:
Ahh...i cared about them. (sorry, slightly tipsy and i just realized my post didn't make much sense)
The thing is, when i try to help n00bs they run away. When i pk n00bs, they complain and run away.....So i'm really screwed when i'm in a helping mood. People telling me to fuck off puts me into a pk mood. It's a viscious viscious cycle i tell ya :p.
But yeah, i cared about my friends and such. QD and me are buds...he tried bringing me to the light side on Uranus with SSC (i'm technically still in it) and yet....i find roaming the ally's with a libby so much funner. Hell, just shooting things is fun.
Don't blame me, i can't help my pk'ing attitute! It's like a addiction. :p :angel:
I was talking about NEWBIES
Like I said, there's no such thing on Pluto.
There's newbies, and lowbies. Pluto is full of lowbies.
Those lowbies are either alts or rerolls of people who know how to take care of themselves; and these people do not like dying. Getting killed no matter what the rank will facilitate the following:
A.) Grabbing of an alt
B.) Alerting of the clan.
C.) Alerting of the clan and grabbing of the alt.
D.) Alerting of the faction.
E.) Alerting of the faction and clan.
F.) Alerting of the faction, clan and alt.
G.) Nothing.
All of those except G provide me with merriment. The only 'n00bs' I kill are clanned (Except for FA because most of those unclanned lowbies are people I know can do one of the prior posted options aside from G.
JackScratch
01-12-03, 19:37
This post is a psych paper alright. I think I shal call it "review of the mind of an inconciderate shit." You know, If I walked up to you and out of no where, spit in your face, I will have done you no harm, and yet you would be very angry. Why do you suppose that is. It is because it is rude, Inconciderate behavior. That is what Random/Faction PKing is, Rude, Inconciderate behavior. All of the excuses you people make for it, are bullshit. You are trying to convince yourselves that its OK for you to have fun at the expense of others. Wakeup call, it isn't. Now don't get me wrong, I know you will follow this post with a responce (either to the thread or just to yourself.) that I am just a carebear or that Im an asshole and should be ignored. This is because the thought that YOU might be doing something wrong, never croses your mind. Well here it is in black and white, you are a bad person, not just in game, in total. You are no less bad than someone who pick pockets, steals, shoplifts, or even cuts someone off while driveing. You, and all of your kind, are inconciderate of your fellow human being, and have no place on this planet. You strive to take from other for your own gain, and your parents clearly neglected to instil in you that this is wrong. You are part of what makes life on this planet a burden rather than a pleasure, and ultimately will contribute to the fall of mankind. Now don't get me wrong, I participate in PvP, but I have a cause, a goal, and my oponents know they are my oponents long before they are looking at me from the right click to GR screen. You are a coward, and I lookforward to the expulsion of your kind from this game, by the upstanding citizens of the various servers.
So do you think people should be banned for PKing, JackScratch? Do you think that this post-apocalyptic, anarchic world should be more civilised than the real world we live in?
JackScratch
01-12-03, 19:48
Isn't it. I mean If I ran around killing people IRL, what do you think would happen? I expect to be killed by Mob and Runner alike, but come the hell on, running around random ganking is FPS bullshit. Take it where it belongs. This game has a rich full roleplaying socio political potential, but instead you have sad sick freaks just running around killing cause it gets them off. Well Ill have non of it. There are plenty of valid reasons and ways to PvP, and this is the best he can come up with, that's just sad, and reflects most poorly on him. I have no desire for any change to be made to the game mechanics, instead I call upon the people of NC to make life imposible for the cretins. To not trade with known PKers. Hunt them where ever they hide. They must and should be greifed from the game, just as they would be in real life. But first and formost, I want them, to know what they are doing. I want them to stop fooling themselvees with the "it's just a game" crap. Chess is just a game, yet if I sweep the pieces off the board and scream "nah nah" that is bad behavior. That is what these people are exibiting, bad behavior. The difference is, that I can't just pick up the board and leave, they are there and there is not a way I can make them not be there. So we do as society does. Those who are the victims, make life undesireable for those who are the victimisers.
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 20:00
Jackscratch... spitting is the same as punching someone in the face if not worse... god think of all the germs and diseases that could be in your spit anyways....
I have never.... stolen anything in my whole entire life....
I have never.... caused anyone physical harm who has not
caused physical harm to me.
I have never.... Cut anyone off (intentionaly :) )
I have never.... Basicaly done anything wrong that can
beconsidered an act of crime against another
person.
I have however... Pked people for the fucking hell of it.
Now your telling me this makes me comparable to a criminal in real life? Even though I have nor would do anything in real life criminal (Im actualy taking criminal justice and hope to be a detecitive eventualy HELPING people in real life)
Now I understand your aggravation but understand it is just part of the game. (Btw are u against pking just because someone is a faction enenmy or no other reason or people who kill even neutrals and allies?) When you take your le out... You know that you have a chance of being shot in the back. This is a POST APOCOLYPTIC GAME. People now in todays "civilized" world are fucking in the head as u have already pointed out and will steal loot kill cheat anything to get one up on everyone else in the world. Why would it be less likely to happen in a game in the future where every man is for himself.
Being pked in the beggining of my experience in this game made me stick around for so long. I was pked so many times in pepper park during beta it was rediculous. The crackheads at the time killed me left and right. Did i go bo0ho0 omg your as bad as someone who fucked his own mother in real life may you go to hell. No i joined a clan that was against the crackheads I learned the way of the game and you know what I KILLED THEM TEN TIMES FOR EVERY ONE TIME THEY KILLED ME. And it felt damn fuckin good. Thats the excitement of this game. You never know who will kill you when. When they do you can have some fun getting pay back.
Not to mention death in this game means JACK SHIT. You deimpare for 3 minutes pay a few thousand for pokes and generep fees. Then your back on your merry way (Dont go back to the same fuckin spot you got shot at unless u want revenge thats just fuckin retarded.)
BIG EDIT:
I just seen your last post I agree with self policing by the community. Though I think your hatred of pkers is a bit strong.
I agree with you if you want to stop pkers it should be up to other players to stop them. The game mechanics should be the same and the community should self police. Infact they did when pking was a much bigger thing then it is even nearly now.
Come on now griefed from the game? If they cant handle getting pked back then good if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen. Dont you think your taking this GAME way to seriously. Who wants to play a GAME and act civilized. Its a GAME its where u can do things you woudlnt normaly do in real life.
This post is a psych paper alright. I think I shal call it "review of the mind of an inconciderate shit." You know, If I walked up to you and out of no where, spit in your face, I will have done you no harm, and yet you would be very angry. Why do you suppose that is
Let's say you're a turk and I'm a kurd. We've both be taught to dislike eachother - hell, our respective overseers reward conflict.
I would have reason to spit in your face, you'd have reason to spit in mine.
If you have a red faction title, you are an enemy - YOU are a risk to my faction and its people. Just as I am a risk to your faction and its people.
That is what Random/Faction PKing is, Rude, Inconciderate behavior
But it is rude inconsiderate behavior that is allowed by the rules put forth by reakktor. You need to live with it mate.
You are trying to convince yourselves that its OK for you to have fun at the expense of others
It is. If the person doesn't want to be victimized they could take any number of the proper precautions beforehand. If they died - they didn't, I'll shed no tear for them.
Hell, Do you think a beautiful yet scantly clad woman would be able to walk through the yard of a male medium security prison without being raped by prisoners?
To prevent rape, can she do things? Yes. If she didn't... Who's fault is it? Her own, because she didn't use common sense.
that I am just a carebear or that Im an asshole and should be ignored
No, I'm trying to be more polite than that. I'll simply point out that most people left the game when it adopted more 'carebearish' tendancies.
This is because the thought that YOU might be doing something wrong, never croses your mind. Well here it is in black and white, you are a bad person, not just in game, in total. You are no less bad than someone who pick pockets, steals, shoplifts, or even cuts someone off while driveing
I am violating social mores, but I break no laws seeing as the lands put forth in Neocron are lawless. I may be a bad person, but who are you to judge? Especially as a person who's mind is so clouded as to confuse actions taken in a game with actions that can be taken in real life.
The internet, and by association MMORPGS - provide anonymity for the user. As such, they can act completely different than they do in real life, this is why online games are such big sellers. They're nothing more than mediums for people to leech stress.
Perhaps you pay monthly to farm warbots and pretend that the Dome of York has infiltrators in the City Admin... But frankly, I pay monthly to fight and be entertained (Boy I feel like a broken record.). Guess what, we both looked at the exact same back of a box and got different messages it seems.
No! We can coexist in the world of Neocron, you simply must work a little harder, roleplay a little better, or act a little smarter in your actions with me or those like me. If you do, it's doubtable you'll die.
In game I'm a nice dude - Hell, my tradeskill alt does most of his shit for free - Marx gives out money to n00bs, I give regular donations to creds greenhouse. In fact, I probably do more to help people than you do... Yet the minute I fight someone for the sheer fun of fighting, I'm an anti-social misfit.
MY HYPOCRACY SENSE IS TINGLING BATMAN!!!11
You, and all of your kind, are inconciderate of your fellow human being
Hi, I used to candy striper in the hospice section of my towns' hospital and when I came of age I worked for my EMT rating. I now sit in back of an ambulance during alot of my free time. I plan on following my brothers suit and going into the Army - only I want to follow a medical branch. Within the Army I'll of course strivie to get a Special Operations Medical slot (Which after 8 years as an enlisted 91W becomes practically mandatory), which ensures that I'll be able to make a career out of the Army.
What is it I'll be doing? Helping Third World villages in their daily strife against disease and malnourishment.
I'm glad that you can generalize much of the populace as you see fit; in fact - that makes you more evil than I. I could make a comment based on history - but I don't think it'd go over well on these particular forums. You probably know what I'm hinting at.
Now don't get me wrong, I participate in PvP, but I have a cause, a goal, and my oponents know they are my oponents long before they are looking at me from the right click to GR screen. You are a coward, and I lookforward to the expulsion of your kind from this game, by the upstanding citizens of the various servers
Those I fight, fight. As I've said previously - I don't fight lowbies unless I know that they'll bring vengence.
Why?
Because winning a fight hands down is not entertaining. It's like playing battleship with a friend yet you're both sitting on the same side of the table.
mean If I ran around killing people IRL, what do you think would happen
You'll either be
A: ) Rewarded for your bravery and initiative
B: ) Killed in retaliation
C: ) Arrested for murder
Notice there are three slots. You seem to forget that enemy factions are at WAR. As a member of the Crahn Sect - It is my job to kill City Admin personel, Fallen Angels Technocrats, etc. My JOB.
When I fight, I take the chance of dying for that cause - In which case the person fighting me would be in the position I would have been in had I won.
Oooooh - Circular there... Confused?
IF I DON'T WIN, HE/SHE DOES. IF THEY WIN, THE ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING I WOULD'VE HAD I WON - THE ELIMINATION OF AN ENEMY
Now, If I kill persons who're allied or neutral to me - I lose soullight. With low soullight, I run the chance of being arrested... Well, judged and executed is more like it.
Hence, I try not to kill neutrals or allies. Sometimes it can't be avoided due to the lack of clanwars and such, but... *shrug*
There are plenty of valid reasons and ways to PvP, and this is the best he can come up with, that's just sad, and reflects most poorly on him. I have no desire for any change to be made to the game mechanics, instead I call upon the people of NC to make life imposible for the cretins. To not trade with known PKers. Hunt them where ever they hide
Yo, Jack, get off your high horse for a sec. Which facts reflect poorly on me?
Anyway - You forget that I also provide services to Pluto and Neocron, I provide trade, I and people like me make the world go round.
They must and should be greifed from the game, just as they would be in real life.
Listen, I have no qaulms killing you in game... Because it's just that, a game. If you continue to judge people based on the way they act in a game... Well - Then it just shows you to be a retard, plain and simple.
Sorry, I couldn't sugar coat that blow, no matter how hard I tried.
So we do as society does. Those who are the victims, make life undesireable for those who are the victimisers.
YES< THIS IS WHAT YOURE SUPOPSED TO DO FOR FUCKS SAKE.
THE WORLD GIVES YOU THE OPTION TO RUN IT HOW YOU LIKE, DO SOMETHING INSTEAD OF FUCKING BITCHING ON THE FORUMS.
Anyway, back to the disney MMO for me.
I will post something here I posted a long time ago...
PKing can NOT be compared at all to ANYTHING in real life. We all know in real life you die once- and there endeth the threat.
So I have a challenge to all of you big and bad PKers that think it proper to kill anyone for no reason:
If you are going to "RP" a murderer or something, why not put a LITTLE effort into it????
1. Pick an actual MO- real life serial killers dont kill EVERYONE- they usually have a specific target. So develope one for yourself. Pick female monks, or PEs using that Asian face. Whatever. But pick a victim profile and stick to it. This includes not killing the same player twice.
2. REROLL YOUR CHARACTER AFTER YOU GET KILLED BY ANOTHER PLAYER. Mob deaths dont count- but as soon as you get killed by another player, start over. Create a new account, pick a new MO, and start over. If you want to use real life to justify your actions, why not actually stick to real life consequences?
Results:
A. You have constant action. That is what you want anyway, right? A challenge? Fun in killing people? You will get it. You get to stalk your victim, kill them, and then slip off into the night.
B. People can hunt you. People can try and determine what your MO is, and then possibly even set traps for you, by creating a newb that matches the profile of your victims, and then waiting for you to strike.
C. Death matters. Now you get what you always wanted- people to be gunning for you, knowing that if you die you reroll. You run because if you get caught and die, you reroll. Combine those two things, and suddenly the simply act of PKing has a lot of meaning to a lot of people.
Just an idea. I would love to see any number of the chest beating PKers try something like this. This, not random killing, is PK via RP.
Originally posted by Marx
Hell, Do you think a beautiful yet scantly clad woman would be able to walk through the yard of a male medium security prison without being raped by prisoners?
To prevent rape, can she do things? Yes. If she didn't... Who's fault is it? Her own, because she didn't use common sense.
I always had alot of respect for you up until this point.
Ill just go shout out through the window for a while because I
dont want nid to get all banzor happy on me again.
Ok ok, granted, its not entirely her fault...
But she could've done things to avoid the situation...
Get an escort from guards, cover up better...
BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN IF A PORNSTAR LOOK-A-LIKE WALKED ACROSS A PRISON WORK YARD IN A THONG AND NIPPLE PASTIES?!
What, do you think the prisoners would sit her down and talk about how she should be more prudish?
No, most will violate her.
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 21:23
Originally posted by JackScratch
This post is a psych paper alright. I think I shal call it "review of the mind of an inconciderate shit."
:lol:
Good one jack. :p
Jack quick question, why do you think it's wrong to kill FACTION enemies?
You say that clan war PvP is ok right? Well then that's because they both knew full well what they were getting into when they went to war, right? Well isn't that the same with faction enemies? Since the beginning of retail and Neocron players knew you would attack and be attacked by faction enemies without penalty. It's like just playing the game is already an agreement about what you're getting into.
EDIT:Rade ffs will you clear out your damn PMs. :angel:
Yeah, dont blame the convicts. Its the woman's fault.
:rolleyes:
That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted in any forum, anywhere.
NEWSFLASH: being beautiful and scantily clad does not give people a free pass to rape you, even criminals.
NEWSFLASH: being beautiful and scantily clad does not give people a free pass to rape you, even criminals.
Yes, but the criminals are just that ciminals.
They've already shown that they cannot curb their own actions, if they could, they wouldn't be criminals... Would they.
:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 21:26
Originally posted by Strych9
Yeah, dont blame the convicts. Its the woman's fault.
It's never the victimizer's fault, always the victim according to most of these "pkers". It's like they always try to rationalize and use lame excuses.
Now PKing doesn't bother me, just all the lame excuses and rationalizations and justifications. I've yet to hear one PK being fully honest IMO.
I've yet to hear one PK being fully honest IMO.
I fight to fight.
How is that dishonest?
If I wanted power trips, I'd be putting more time on a rig where I can have the power of "life or death" as opposed to an online game.
:rolleyes:
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:29
Its not the womans "fault" but she sure as hell shouldnt be wearing pasties and a thong in a prison :p
Fully honest? Fully honest about what. I use to kill people cuz i like to piss people off and it was my goal to make the whole server hate me so everywhere i went i would be chased after and sough after so the game would be more exciting (Like u dont enjoy revenge killing someone in game?)
By far the best effort was from GANG. I had much respect for these people. Megaman killed them several times (Despite my pleas not to pk in zones we leveled in) and what happened everytime one of them spotted us leveling. Bam 10 to 20 of em show up aoe the shit out of us it was great fun im sure for both sides.
Noone said its the fucking persons who gots killed fault they got killed. Where saying THEY CAN PREVENT IT FROM FUCKING HAPPENING.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Its not the womans "fault" but she sure as hell shouldnt be wearing pasties and a thong in a prison :p
Granted, though not at direct fault for the actions taken, common sense should've been used so as she wouldn't put herself in the sitution where people without control could have at her.
:confused:
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:35
Thats what I meant. Its not her fault that it gone done to her but shes pretty retarded to put herself in that scituation.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Noone said its the fucking persons who gots killed fault they got killed. Were saying THEY CAN PREVENT IT FROM FUCKING HAPPENING.
Yep, but people will continue arguing.
Her 'retardation' in no way justifies the crime, or make it any less of a crime AT ALL. That is the point.
Saying "she was asking to be raped because her skirt was short" does not make rape okay. Saying "but I was a criminal before the rape" does not make it okay.
I really hope this "the victim is responsible" idea isnt shared by PKers overall.
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 21:39
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Its not the womans "fault" but she sure as hell shouldnt be wearing pasties and a thong in a prison :p
What the hell is a pasty?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Fully honest? Fully honest about what. I use to kill people cuz i like to piss people off and it was my goal to make the whole server hate me so everywhere i went i would be chased after and sough after so the game would be more exciting (Like u dont enjoy revenge killing someone in game?)
HELL YEA I love revenge. When I killed escape at CRP it was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet and laughed with delight for the next half hour. hehe
Anyhow, maybe YOU'RE being honest. I'm talking about people(MAYBE NOT YOU) who say shit like it's the vitim's fault, they brought it upon themselves, yadda yadda yadda.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Noone said its the fucking persons who gots killed fault they got killed.
Maybe YOU haven't said that, but other "PKARS" have.
Originally posted by Strych9
Her 'retardation' in no way justifies the crime, or make it any less of a crime AT ALL. That is the point.
Saying "she was asking to be raped because her skirt was short" does not make rape okay. Saying "but I was a criminal before the rape" does not make it okay.
I really hope this "the victim is responsible" idea isnt shared by PKers overall.
EXACTLY!
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:39
I dont think the victim is repsonsible.
I think they can prevent it from happening so they shouldnt bitch and whine like little pussies when they get killed.
Originally posted by Marx
Yep, but people will continue arguing. So do you REALLY want all non-PKers to take the proper steps to avoid being PK'd???
Strych, lemme walk you through this.
A LADY WANTS TO WALK THROUGH A PRISON YARD AS CLOSE TO NAKED AS POSSIBLE.
THE CRIMINALS (who're criminals because they couldn't curb themselves in the first place...) DON'T CURB THEMSELVES AND HAVE AT HER.
WHO PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION.
SHE DID.
SHE COULD'VE DONE ANYTHING ASIDE FROM THIS, BUT SHE DECIDED TO GO FOR A SEMI NAKED STROLL.
If you don't see the point, you need to get out of your armor and get off that valiant white steed.
I'm trying to point out that people can prevent things from happening... And if they don't - bad things can happen, which according to the mandates of common sense... Should be obvious.
So do you REALLY want all non-PKers to take the proper steps to avoid being PK'd???
If
a.) It will prevent their bitching from gracing my ears.
b.) will ensure that those fighting are actually good at fighting
c.) Get jack scratch to stop thinking i'm a mass murderer in real life.
Yes.
LOL. Whatever Marx. You have said enough- your views on this are clear... repulsively clear. My final word- rape is wrong, no matter what they wear and no matter who does the raping. If you cant handle that, tough crap.
But, back to the subject- I ask again... do you REALLY want everyone to take the proper steps to avoid being killed? I would have SWORN PKers actually like having targets...
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:45
Strych9
Yes if they DO NOT want to pked there is many ways they can help prevent it.
#1 Law enforcer need i say more.
#2 Join a clan and hunt with stronger clan mates to protect u
#3 Just gather a large group of mid level players and level
together (Maybe it needs to be easier for like 5 mid levels to
take out a high level cuz at it is now a high level can take out
an infinite number of mid levels pretty much
#4 There are many places to hunt in not just aggie/crp theres
more zones then there are people logged into the server half
the time for crying outloud.
If they do not want to take the precautions i don not want to hear about how they dont want to get killed boohoo im leveling.
Also he is not saying that the rape is any less wrong or that its right because of what shes wearing.
Hes simply saying she very well knew what she was getting herself into yet decided to do it anyways knowing there was alternatives that would less likely put her in danger.
My final word- rape is wrong, no matter what they wear and no matter who does the raping. If you cant handle that, tough crap
Point out where I condone it?
I simply say that the victim of any crime is partially at fault. If they had done a better job protecting themselves... They wouldn't be a victim... Would they.
Also he is not saying that the rape is any less wrong or that its right because of what shes wearing.
Hes simply saying she very well knew what she was getting herself into yet decided to do it anyways knowing there was alternatives that would less likely put her in danger.
Thank you psycho, it's good to see that my point, though ill-worded is still attainable.
:D
OMG? stfu about rape please? tyvm
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:51
Uh i see what your saying marx but i think saying "there partialy at fault" is a bit much.
They should have taken precations to prevent it since they knew it would happen but i wouldnt go as far as saying its partialy there fault. Just like i wouldnt feel as bad for a prostitute walking the streets at night in the middle of the bronx trying to pick up men then getting raped as I would for a woman who was walking to her dorm at night minding her own business. Though I would not say its the prostitues fault... I would still think she is an idiot for putting her self in that position
Dont get me wrong- I am in favor of having PKing possible.
I, like SD, really disdain the PKers that try to rationalize their behavior as some something other than "I am just having fun at the cost of others."
If you admit that, cool.
The kicker here, and pay attention, is that a LOT of players LIKE to fight. Period. We know that.
The problem here are those that only get pleasure out of killing those that dont like to fight.
Should those that dont like to fight take precautions? Sure. The LE is the final answer to me. I think if they make it so people can form some sort of communal group with their LE in (to share apts and cabs) then thats the END of the whole conflict. Keep your LE in if you dont want to be killed.
So I basically agree with your message. As long as the LE exists, I dont see what the problem is.
Its just when the PKers start going on about how their "are RPing serial killers" or some such nonsense that it gets dumb. And this talk about the criminals not being responsible for rape because the woman had on no clothes is just ludicrous, and really makes the "pro-PK" side of this sound like a retard.
Just my opinion.
You can defend your right to PK without having to claim that rape is not wrong.
:rolleyes:
ENOUGH ABOUT MY ILLWORDED DESCRIPTION.
Continuing on'
But, back to the subject- I ask again... do you REALLY want everyone to take the proper steps to avoid being killed? I would have SWORN PKers actually like having targets
I play to fight and fight to... fight.
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 21:55
Lol people who say there roleplaying random pkers and just kill anyone are obviously just saying that.
I actualy plan on making one of my characters into a serial killer. Actualy playing out the role.... ive yet to pick a target but i do have a planned way of letting everyone kno that all my victims are by the same person :)
I, like SD, really disdain the PKers that try to rationalize their behavior as some something other than "I am just having fun at the cost of others
I don't go wading through new players with gun in hand.
I'm not defining my behavior as anything other than what it is.
I play this game to kill people, by definition killing another player is PKing.
My spree consisted mainly of me FIGHTING capped or at least similar leveled rare using characters... The only young players I killed were faction enemies who were also the alts or lowbies of BIG TOUGH STRONG MANZ. You know who you are.
I do not advocate GREIFING.
I simply wonder how exactly I'm supposed to rationalize killing people who're trying to kill me.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Marx
Point out where I condone it?You claim that the victim should not have been in the prison in no clothes (nevermind how dumb a scenario that is). So since she didnt PREVENT the rape, we cannot blame the criminal for raping her, since afterall, he is a criminal, and she WAS real sexy.
That is condoning the rape of the woman. By it being her fault (due to a lack of prevention) you are saying the criminal did nothing wrong, and thus, no crime took place. If no crime took place, its condoned at that point.
Just take a moment and extrapolate your reasoning to something else more tangible than a woman naked in a male prison.
You are out driving in your car, with your wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat. Someone runs a red light, and slams into the passenger side, killing her. The gun that ran the red light says "You should have taken precautions against someone running the red light. You should have stayed home. Accidents happen all the time on the road, so you KNEW that it is dangerous."
Would you buy that line of reasoning?
This will be my last post about rape. If you want to respond and get a response from me, just PM me.
--
Regarding the PKing, okay then you can avoid answering me- the point is that what is happening in this thread is the same thing that happens over and over in these forums.
1. PKer kills people for no reason.
2. People complain.
3. PKer says "put your LE in and stop whining."
Now if every target of the PK actually DID #3, they would have no one to PK except other PKers.
Thats the odd part of this.
If PKers just attack those that WANT to fight to begin with, we wouldnt need this discussion over and over.
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 22:03
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
do have a planned way of letting everyone kno that all my victims are by the same person :)
Your dogtags. :p
RuriHoshino
01-12-03, 22:05
I don't mind being pk'd (much :p ) but when that PKer goes on to deliberately blow up my hover before I even have a chance to GR to my apt, that's when I consider him/her a genuine dyed-in-the-wool asshole. And he/she will find themselves the target of a sniper bullet as many times as I can find them in the near future. :mad:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I actualy plan on making one of my characters into a serial killer. Actualy playing out the role.... ive yet to pick a target but i do have a planned way of letting everyone kno that all my victims are by the same person :) Bravo to that. Did you see my earlier post on this in this same thread?
A lot of PKers dont realize how many possibilities there are for actually RP'd player killing.
Marx:
I simply wonder how exactly I'm supposed to rationalize killing people who're trying to kill me.Nah man, I dont see a need for that.
If someone is simply trying to kill you, I would hope you NEVER have to rationalize killing them back.
The ONLY time I see ANY sort of "rationalizing" take place is when the Pkers killed people NOT trying to kill them. That is when the whole "mindless random killing" stuff comes into play.
Killing your attackers is easy to justify (I would hope. At least I would never demand justification for killing someone attacking you... LOL )
You claim that the victim should not have been in the prison in no clothes (nevermind how dumb a scenario that is). So since she didnt PREVENT the rape, we cannot blame the criminal for raping her, since afterall, he is a criminal, and she WAS real sexy.
I don't condone it, I point it that it's an obviously DUMB move on her part.
I say she could've done many things to NOT be in that situation but carried on ANYWAY, and MUCH TO HER SUPRISE, THE PLACE WAS FULL OF CRIMINALS. GO FIGURE.
Compare this to a TG tradeskill spy loaded down so he's running slow...
He decides to run to his PP app through PP1.. ONOZ, ITS FULL OF CA PEOPLE.
He tries to run through it, gets killed.
Could he have prevented it? Yes, by going after the problem a different way.
THAT IS MY FUCKING POINT< NOW GET OFF THAT TOPIC ALREADY
1. PKer kills people for no reason.
2. People complain.
3. PKer says "put your LE in and stop whining.
There's always a reason for someone to kill another, people just might be too braindead to acknowledge the reason. Oh, I'm TG in PP with a bunch of CA dudes... they won't kill me.
The gun that ran the red light says "You should have taken precautions against someone running the red light. You should have stayed home. Accidents happen all the time on the road, so you KNEW that it is dangerous
That example is not as specific in actions which led to the course of events... Read mine again, compare with yours... They can't be compared.
If you want to continue on that topic, DM me... I'll type your ear off.
Now if every target of the PK actually DID #3, they would have no one to PK except other PKers
And if you read what I wrote instead of tossing out emotionally charged babble, you'd see that THAT'S WHO I FIGHT.
If PKers just attack those that WANT to fight to begin with, we wouldnt need this discussion over and over.
IF THOSE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO GET KILLED PUT IN THEIR LE OR CHOSE ANOTHER WAY OF BECOMING OBVIOUSLY NONCOMBATANT INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT EVEYONE ACTS LIKE BOB HOPE, WE WOULDN'T NEED THIS DISCUSSION OVER AND OVER.
Psycho Killa
01-12-03, 22:10
I was thinking something that involved a little more investigating then my own personal dogtags.
Just a way that when people talk to eachother they can realize that each crime was commited by the same person. Then maybe someone will catch me killing them and word will get out like in real life.
I pmed u my idea strych9 tell me what u think. (Could be replaced with any other item)
Shadow Dancer
01-12-03, 22:16
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I was thinking something that involved a little more investigating then my own personal dogtags.
Just a way that when people talk to eachother they can realize that each crime was commited by the same person. Then maybe someone will catch me killing them and word will get out like in real life.
I pmed u my idea strych9 tell me what u think. (Could be replaced with any other item)
PM me your idea too.
Originally posted by Marx
And if you read what I wrote instead of tossing out emotionally charged babble, you'd see that THAT'S WHO I FIGHT.Oh Im sorry Marx, I didnt realize that all comments I made about "The PKer" had to be ONLY about you. My bad.
:rolleyes:
I was talking in general terms, not just about you. :)
But since you were talking on this subject, I thought it would be okay to respond to you.
IF THOSE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO GET KILLED PUT IN THEIR LE OR CHOSE ANOTHER WAY OF BECOMING OBVIOUSLY NONCOMBATANT INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT EVEYONE ACTS LIKE BOB HOPE, WE WOULDN'T NEED THIS DISCUSSION OVER AND OVER. If you read what I said instead of spewing emotionally charged babble, you will see that I said the same thing- as long as the LE is an option, there really is no discussion here.
But understand this- Its not their choice not to use the LE that prompts the discussion... its the PKer choice to kill them that does it. Someone without an LE in is NOT the same thing as someone wanting to fight- that is what RP is supposed to be for.
I think the assumption that no LE = please kill me is a flawed one. Sure the game mechanics allow it- but to whatever extent our actions in this game shouldbe motivated by some actual in game reason...
Now before you get bent outta shape, I consider the following good reasons (i.e. RP based):
1. Enemy faction in your faction area, or in a neutral area
2. Player attacked you
3. Player did something to hurt you in the past (revenge)
4. You are taking player's op (op wars, clan wars, etc.)
Not good reasons (not RP based):
1. Because I can and the game mechanics dont stop me.
Originally posted by Strych9
Oh Im sorry Marx, I didnt realize that all comments I made about "The PKer" had to be ONLY about you. My bad.
Sorry, still working on the defensive. :(
I dunno, on Pluto most of those who fight... are much like me - and n00bs who ask for assistance or report a 'PKAR' are assisted. Perhaps thats radically different on other servers *shrug*
If you read what I said instead of spewing emotionally charged babble, you will see that I said the same thing- as long as the LE is an option, there really is no discussion here.
And I tossed that comment out at those like Jack Scratch (and other rampant anti-fun in neocron people) who would've taken what you said and ran with it towards the worse.
I think the assumption that no LE = please kill me is a flawed one. Sure the game mechanics allow it- but to whatever extent our actions in this game shouldbe motivated by some actual in game reason
My attacks are motivated, All those I run with use the same motivations. Of course there will always be a few people who will kill anyone no matter what; and those are the 'amok weirdos' that MJS alluded to.
1. Enemy faction in your faction area, or in a neutral area
2. Player attacked you
3. Player did something to hurt you in the past (revenge)
4. You are taking player's op (op wars, clan wars, etc.)
Wow, fancy that! Those rules are so damned akin to mine! The only difference is this...
5. I will provoke a fight if none is apparent.
1. Because I can and the game mechanics dont stop me.
That is the mentality of a greifer, not a Player Killer.
JackScratch
01-12-03, 23:22
Step away from the computer for an hour and the world goes to shit.
What exactly do you people think the word "inconsiderate" means?
Lets review "consider" - to reflect or think about a subject
"considerate" - one who posesses the qualities of considerateion, namely one who frequently considers.
"inconsiderate" - one who lacks the qualities of being considerate.
If you act repeatedly, in a way that effects other human beings in a negative way, without takeing time to reflect on how, or why you are doing so, then you are inconsiderate.
Often, behaveing in a negative way can be justified by circumstances. For egsample, I have an OP, you want the OP, we can not both have the OP, so we fight over the OP. Perfectly reasonable.
I have an OP, you take the OP, I attack you when I see you in order to persuade you to not defend the OP, in the entrest of me takeing it back. Without a doupt acceptable.
I chalange you to a duel, in the interest of exerciseing and testing your prowes in combat, you accept, and thus we engage in combat under pre aranged circumstances. Sounds like fun.
I own a clan, you own a clan. Your clan offends me in one manner or another and so I declare war on your clan. From that point till a truece can be brokered, your people and mine engage in combat in any way at any time (hopefuly being honorable about it) the are able. Is't that what the game is all about?
You go through the day killing anyone the whim hits you to kill, without them knowing that they are are target of any kind till the are either near to death or dead. Bad form, dirty pool. We dont allow your kind in our club.
Here is a wakeup call for you Marx. You say that you only attacked like leveled runners, yet you killed all day and only died 3 times. Hmmmm? Sounds like its getting shallow in the defense department.
Forget what is criminal for a moment and think about what kind of human being you are. If you take an action, without care or consideration to how it effects the other human being, and without offering them the oportunity to express their needs and desires against those actions, and more importantly offering them an oportunity to remove themselves from the situation. Then you are inconsiderate, you are haveing fun at the expense of another human being, game or not. This makes you a bad person. Not a criminal, not a rapest, and not a role player. This makes you an inconsiderate shit.
PS. In response to the question concerning Faction killing, that has been done so poorly in this game that it does not warrent consideration. Much of the problem we are dealing with here is caused by faction killing. Faction killing allows an individual to kill another runner of any rank, for any reason, at any time. This is bad sportsmanship and should not be condoned. Perhaps, and I do mean maybe, if there were some rank limiter, or killing faction enemies had any effect whatsoever on the enemy at large (IE changed the outcome of things in game), it would be acceptable. However there are so many wonderful PvP oportunities, why would you bother changeing the game mechanics for that?
Sometimes when people talk about PvP restrictions and
whats "fair" and not "fair" and what should be "condoned" or not
this is all I see:
http://w1.708.telia.com/~u70804208/smile8.gif
JackScratch
01-12-03, 23:54
I see, and have you "truley" taken time to reflect on how your actions effect other people? No one (at least not me) is saying "remove PvP from the game mechanics" or "add /set kill_PKer 1". What I am saying, and no self loathing Random/faction PKers dares let themself hear, is "are you the kind of person who does things to other people without thinking about how it effects them first?" It is my desire to make the people better, not the game. Now, dont get me wrong, Im not expecting all the 13 year olds playing a game intended for 18 and up to change their behavior, oops, wait, yes I am, sorry. My point is to make the world of NC what it is supposed to be, a self governing world. And mind you, when I say "supposed to be" I dont mean what KK intended. Im talking about a world full of real live human beings, or the representation there of. Each runner you encounter is a liveing breathing, and (in most cases) thinkinh person. Any actions against that runner is an action against them. Now there are many people here who wish to engage in combat, and many who don't, and even some, like myself, who wish a happy medium. There is no reason under the sun why all can not be sated, save thier own selfishness.
Step away from the computer for an hour and the world goes to shit
Actually, it's more like step away to a computer for an hour and the world goes to shit. But frankly, that's none of your concern.
Here is a wakeup call for you Marx. You say that you only attacked like leveled runners, yet you killed all day and only died 3 times. Hmmmm? Sounds like its getting shallow in the defense department
Evidently you've never fought a stealth PE.
:rolleyes:
If you take an action, without care or consideration to how it effects the other human being, and without offering them the oportunity to express their needs and desires against those actions, and more importantly offering them an oportunity to remove themselves from the situation. Then you are inconsiderate, you are haveing fun at the expense of another human being, game or not. This makes you a bad person. Not a criminal, not a rapest, and not a role player. This makes you an inconsiderate shit.
I take action, but I must consider all things before acting. By killing John Doe, a member of the Ubar Killer Dude clan, more people of the Ubar Killer Dude clan will come to avenge their fallen comrade and fight me, providing me with entertainment.
If this person was not in the Ubar Killer Dude clan, I would not attack them... Seeing as it would not illicit the same response.
Can you find fault with this?
If there's a need for me to kill someone who cannot provide the same response, then generally I do give time for them to leave. As I've said repeatedly - I do not enjoy winning hands down. Whats the point of conflict if you know you're going to win?
When I fight and win OP wars... I'm enjoying myself to the detriment of others. When I fight and lose OP wars... The otherside is enjoying themselves at my detriment. Clearly, the side which loses is not happy, therefore they are not enjoying themselves...
Does that put OP wars in the same basket as PKing?
I'm a bad person because I fight others who want to fight...
:confused:
Can you please clarify that a bit?
Faction killing allows an individual to kill another runner of any rank, for any reason
The WARS between factions provides the ability of any runner to kill an enemy factioned runner without question. Much like in real life, they don't need to prove a threat to be a target, because any casualty which isn't your sides', is a good casualty.
I absolutely hate how you're making this out to be a slaughter of innocence; because I haven't seen anything like that since the beginning of retail.
This is bad sportsmanship and should not be condoned.
Last time I checked... This isn't a sports game.
:lol:
I jest, I jest. I guess the soldier who flanks the enemy and kills him unexpectedly is a bad sport, because he didn't give the enemy a chance to react.
o_O
Anyway, the disney mmo is drawing back in again (it's such a sexy game) So I'll draw this to a close and reiterate.. what I've been saying... pretty much ... all... this ... time.
I pay to play the way I do, I can continue to play as such until the rules are changed again. If you wish to lobby to get those rules changed, go for it - You'd find that more people would leave the game than would flock to it.
There are many ways to make yourself out to be something other than a target, this game also forces a player to think about how they should act (i.e. Adopting a specific role?)...
Liken Pepper Park to the dark red light district of your countrys most scandalous town/city/parish... If you walk through the allyways whilst a bunch of big bad looking people are standing there... Things will probably happen to you. The wonderful thing that Neocron provides which is often overlooked is the ability to go around your problems, if you don't understand what I mean, make a CA spy and say you'll pay any TG a million credits to prevent you from getting from plaza sector 4 to say... OZ 5.
There are ways to get there without even being seen.
Yet people don't use most of these methods, hence they're wasted. You look at someone and say "main sewer" they say "guh?" You say "Subway" "gub?"
To close - Until the rules change, nothing else will.
:(
JackScratch
02-12-03, 00:25
Translation - "I'm going to do whatever I want, and no one can tell me I can't cause it's a game, and the game doesn't say it's wrong, so it must not be. the end, forever and ever, the end."
Well said Marx, bravo.
Lay of on the personal insults against Marx....It takes some serious balls to say what he's said. To kill to simply kill is enjoyment enough for him, and i wholeheartedly respect that.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 00:29
It was never his enjoyment which was in question, you are exihbiting the same lack of thought for your fellow man, that he is. Anyone who believes that Random/Faction PKing is a realy great thing is well worthy of my contempt, and shall recieve it in full.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Translation - "I'm going to do whatever I want, and no one can tell me I can't cause it's a game, and the game doesn't say it's wrong, so it must not be. the end, forever and ever, the end."
Well said Marx, bravo.
The game takes place in a lawless waste... Who's supposed to uphold the Morally Right?!
The Players!
If you don't see the Morally Right... Then its your fault, because instead of working to counteract me in game where it matters, you're busy arguing about it here...
As I've said in other threads - The thing I miss most about the rampant PKers of times past, was that it forced people and clans to step up and play the role of Sheriff... They were the heroes of the day.
*sigh*
Instead, you're spitten and whining to me, not even countering my points because obviously you're right even though technically I'm doing nothing wrong.
:rolleyes:
You want changes... Great, work for changes. If those changes come I'll adapt or leave. Evolution at it's finest, buck up or get off.
It was never his enjoyment which was in question, you are exihbiting the same lack of thought for your fellow man, that he is. Anyone who believes that Random/Faction PKing is a realy great thing is well worthy of my contempt, and shall recieve it in full.
I think of my fellow man, Hell I do more to support them than most in real life and in game. If I wanted to greif whordes of newbies... I would, but I don't. Why? Its not my place to, I haven't the motive.
Anyway, you might want to get off your horse Don Juan, it's pretty high and you're on your way for a fall.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 00:36
OK, your not that brite are you? Why the hell would I miss the oportunity to bring others to my way of thinking, and fight you in the game, when I can easily do both? DUH. And there is no need to reiterate that it is a game, and that the fact that it is a game, makes any behavior you exhibit acceptable. I believe that you believe that.
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, your not that brite are you? Why the hell would I miss the oportunity to bring others to my way of thinking, and fight you in the game, when I can easily do both? DUH. And there is no need to reiterate that it is a game, and that the fact that it is a game, makes any behavior you exhibit acceptable. I believe that you believe that.
That's completely not the point. I will now express my anger by specifically pk'ing n00bs of your specific faction. Have a nice day..brb in a bit. ^_^
JackScratch
02-12-03, 00:43
Yeah, cause that'll show em. This would be precisely the kind of behavior I am talking about. And by commiting such an act, you will most certaily push many people to my way of thinking. There are 2 sides to this case. Those who believe the victim is there to serve the PKer, and those who believe each person has a right to decide if a fight is fair or not. The self servant rarely is awash with friends.
OK, your not that brite are you? Why the hell would I miss the oportunity to bring others to my way of thinking, and fight you in the game, when I can easily do both? DUH. And there is no need to reiterate that it is a game, and that the fact that it is a game, makes any behavior you exhibit acceptable. I believe that you believe that.
Some people say I'm not bright, but frankly I laugh it off.
My behavior is acceptable, because in reality - I am not preforming these actions. I am not a mass murderer (not that I do that in game anyway), I am not a theif, I am not a criminal in any form.
Yet somehow I'm impure because I walked into a post-apocalyptic world where 23 billion people ARE DEAD and decided, hey, why not 24 billion people.
There will always be people like me, the numbers will always increase and decrease over time, much as it has already.
The day we're all gone however, will be the day the servers go down.
There will always be people who think what I, and people like me do is cool. Hell, I admired those that killed me - I thought it was hilarious how they acted, I won't say I outright strove to be like them, because fully; I'm not.
I will say that what happened when to me when I was a n00b affected me to play the way I do; because it showed me that the social processes are more complex in this game than any other.
You either take advantage of 'em, or you don't dude.
And for your information before I started writing this, I killed 2 City Admin people in Pepper Pub who were staring at the Anime posters.
You haven't stopped me yet Jack - Keep up the good work.
EDIT -
Those who believe the victim is there to serve the PKer
bbb... The victim DOES serve the PKer as long as they MAKE THEMSELVES OUT TO BE A VICTIM. THE MINUTE THEY STOP, THE PKER CANNOT PK THEM, AND THEREFORE, THEY'RE NO LONGER A VICTIM. Hence, they no longer serve the PKers interests.
The simple fact you're reinforcing for me Jack, is that 'victims' are lazy and stupid. Instead of working around things so as they're not 'victims' anymore, they run right back into trouble thinking that everythings fine again.
Common - fucking - sense.
Common - fucking - sense.
People have it, alot of these problems would be alleviated if people used it.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Yeah, cause that'll show em. This would be precisely the kind of behavior I am talking about. And by commiting such an act, you will most certaily push many people to my way of thinking. There are 2 sides to this case. Those who believe the victim is there to serve the PKer, and those who believe each person has a right to decide if a fight is fair or not. The self servant rarely is awash with friends.
*shrugs*
Your faction is hostile to mine, and they've ingame killed hundreds of my friends. Therefore they shall taste my blade. ^_^
RuriHoshino
02-12-03, 00:50
Marx, I have a question. No flames, no trolling, just a question. If I am in a brand new created that day clan with 3 people in it, does that make me your target? I don't mind dieing for a reason, I object to dieing just to give someone their jollies.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 00:55
The anthem of the self deluded, the world couldnt posibly go on without me, without good there can't be evil. You know what, John Wayne Gasey was quite the humanitairian. Good deads do not balance out bad ones. Saying, "I do more good things than bad ones" does not make you a good person. The only think that makes you a good person, is striveing to do what is right in all things. It doesnt actualy matter weather or not you succeed, it is intent that makes the difference. And you have shown your true colors beutifuly. No, all your humanitarian efforts do not make up for the fact that in the long run, you don't realy care how you lesser actions effect others. Once again, the theme of the world, is not near as important as the reality of it. Post apocolypse or not, dark or bright, none of it changes the results of how you react to it. It doesnt matter if I stop you, someone else stops you, or even if you are stopped at all. You will have the option to do as you desire, and when you look in the mirror, you will see what you always see. You made a referense to my judgement of you and those like you. You reference misses one important factor. It is always just to judge an individual by there actions, it is perhaps the only just way a person can be judged. To compare that to any other arbitrary decisions ever made in the history of man is an atrocity.
I don't judge you, I judge your actions, and I have found you guilty. How do you plea?
Since this arguement is clearly going nowhere....
I accept it. I kill other people ingame. I'm bad. Even though they're faction enemies, clan enemies, whatever, it's obviously a bad thing to do. So I accept it. I'm bad. Until now I left newbs alone. I figured there was little honour in killing them, so I only ever did when I knew they would get high level friends to come fight me. Now I see that counts for fuck all. I'm bad whatever I do as long as I kill other people, and I'm sure as hell not going to stop doing that. But since it clearly matters not if I kill newbs, I'm going to start killing them too. I no longer care if my faction enemies are unclanned and low level, I'm going to kill them too. Going out with the specific intention of killing newbs is a little too far, but rest assured, if enemy newbs cross my path without an LE chip they're as much a target as a high level enemy from now on. And they can thank the sweeping generalisations made by you, JackScratch.
BTW, is it wrong to kill people who support a dictator who has commited obscene atrocities against his own people?
Marx, I have a question. No flames, no trolling, just a question. If I am in a brand new created that day clan with 3 people in it, does that make me your target? I don't mind dieing for a reason, I object to dieing just to give someone their jollies
No.
As I've said repeatedly, my fights are with people who are either willing to fight, or can call on others in the clan to fight. (Hell, even in most cases in lieu of killing I've told the player in question to tell their clan I'm in such and such a location.)
Unless your members are
1.) In a hostile faction & are willing to fight me... again and again.
2.) Annoying bastards
3.) Really annoying bastards
Sometimes I do make mistakes, I won't lie and say I'm infallible and don't kill some people accidently (i.e. Forgot about clan NAPs, thought my clan doesn't like yours, etc) ... In which case I offer very sincere apologies, pay GR fees and what they payed for poking - And if no ones there to poke them, I've even logged my tradeskill alts to poke/repair their stuff.
I'm alot nicer than most people - and it chafes my ass when people look down on me for enjoying good fights.
I don't judge you, I judge your actions, and I have found you guilty. How do you plea?
I plead guilty of playing the game how I like, Mr. Torquemada Sir.
That red cape on you is stunning - Will I be burned alive? Or ripped peice by peice?
:rolleyes:
BTW, is it wrong to kill people who support a dictator who has commited obscene atrocities against his own people?
I love you Scikar, you are my shining star.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:01
Wow, way to completely miss the point Scikar. Like, did you even bother to read any of my posts? The level of "not get it" in your reply is completely off the scale. My hats off to you for you oblivion. I have stated repeatedly the clear and easy ways to be involved in PvP, and in true Random PKer fasion, you have chosen, instead to lash out against me, mindlessly. Cudos to you, you have taken mindlessness to a new artform.
Jack, quite frankly I can have a better converstation with a wall.
You've yet to support your argument at all. Simply saying we're all WRONG, WRONG... and... more WRONG.
:confused:
How did I attack you? I accepted your argument ffs. You say I'm bad, OK, I admit it, I'm fucking bad, I'm evil, I'm inconsiderate, I'm a fucking asshole and I couldn't care less. I have never random PKd, every person I have killed has died for a reason. A Random PKer kills people simply because they are players. I kill enemies because they are enemies. Besides that, I no longer have any rules, because I'm clearly an asshole no matter what I do, so I might as well live up to it. And all this time I thought killing people who have declared war on me, who would shoot me in the back at the first oppurtunity, who are rewarded by their superiors for killing me, who support a fucking dictator who brainwashes his own people, and whose minion CopBots carry out his every paranoid will, as judge, jury and executioners, regardless of whether they are his own people or his enemies. Yep, I'm bad.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Wow, way to completely miss the point Scikar. Like, did you even bother to read any of my posts? The level of "not get it" in your reply is completely off the scale. My hats off to you for you oblivion. I have stated repeatedly the clear and easy ways to be involved in PvP, and in true Random PKer fasion, you have chosen, instead to lash out against me, mindlessly. Cudos to you, you have taken mindlessness to a new artform.
Mindlessness or Mindless self indulgence?
The point is, I play a game for fun, i get enjoyment playing the game like i am. I do not hurt other people, for it is only a game.
It IS like talking to a wall...Marx has been my hero more and more. Try learning Sophism.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:07
My arguemtent is quite complete, it's only flaw is that it doesn't comply with your desire to do as you please. The rights of an individual are bound only by the rights of other individuals. See, that's the problem, Im telling you, that you can do anything you want, as long as it doesn't prevent anyone else from doing anything they want. And to you this is an intolerable herasy. How dare I suggest that your rights have any boundries at all? The audacity of me, I should be punished. The only thing I am demanding from you, is that your conflicts "begin" as mutual, but that is just to much for you to tolerate. PKers are true humanitarians.
Scikar, I might would agree with your statement if there were factionless runners and clans, but there are not, there is no way to not be flung into a completely arbitrary conflict, save not playing the damn game in the first place. Sorry, doesn't wash.
all you people who are whineing about pkers, i bet in a few months time(thats if your still here and havnt whined your selfs dry)you'll be pking like Marx, Artie, Veterox or whoever.
i never used to fight, then it go to attacking known pkers, then progressed to waging war on enemies, to now where i pretty much kill all enemies on sight(apart from the one my clan is allied with:( )
wonder if you noob whiners where about on saturn when HATE were at there peak, or when the Wolf's were on Pluto at least then you had a reason to complain about dieing.
Originally posted by JackScratch
My arguemtent is quite complete, it's only flaw is that it doesn't comply with your desire to do as you please. The rights of an individual are bound only by the rights of other individuals. See, that's the problem, Im telling you, that you can do anything you want, as long as it doesn't prevent anyone else from doing anything they want. And to you this is an intolerable herasy. How dare I suggest that your rights have any boundries at all? The audacity of me, I should be punished. The only thing I am demanding from you, is that your conflicts "begin" as mutual, but that is just to much for you to tolerate. PKers are true humanitarians.
Scikar, I might would agree with your statement if there were factionless runners and clans, but there are not, there is no way to not be flung into a completely arbitrary conflict, save not playing the damn game in the first place. Sorry, doesn't wash.
LE Chip. You can't get dragged into faction wars, you can't get dragged into clan wars, I'd say that makes you fairly neutral.
And no, I have every right in this game to deny someone access to, for example, my apartment, my OP, my faction HQ. If I want to be a complete prick (and I have never really wanted to, until now since clearly nobody is allowed to have standards once they drop below JackScratch's moral high ground) then I can wander over to someone's faction HQ and repeatedly kill him. According to the rules set by KK, I can rez kill someone, I can camp a GR if I expect him to come through it, I can camp his belt and wait for him to come back. All I am not permitted to do is to kill an LE user by exploiting or to repeatedly kill someone as he spawns from his apartment GR when he has no other GR to use. Anything else is permitted, including killing any other player in the entire game. I don't kill people just for being actual players, but I will continue killing them for being enemies. And you can say it's wrong until you're blue in the face, it won't stop me.
Roc-a-fella
02-12-03, 01:17
Well, a game made by carebears, is FOR CAREBEARS. Neocron was made out to be some "futuristic shooting game" where they acted like they encouredged the "bad guy". But then they added all these new soul light systems that makes it retarded to be that "bad guy" and you place copbots in ever little ass crack you can find even tho peper park was made out to be "where the thugs and killers hand out" i think you forgot to mention that the 50 copbots hung out there too. Im sueing you for wasting my time and money on neocron.... if i could. False advertising.
as long as it doesn't prevent anyone else from doing anything they want. And to you this is an intolerable herasy
I can prevent you from doing what you want in game, its your job to convince me otherwise - or find a way to get what you want which doesn't involve me.
How dare I suggest that your rights have any boundries at all
Dare all you wish! I will ignore them to my hearts content because the boundries proclaimed by you are not law, the boundries put forth by Reakktor Media are.
I should be punished
I dunno, I'm kinda' uneasy about the idea of spanking people - it's kinda awkward.
PKers are true humanitarians
... Nice quip here, it brought something to my head which I can't hold back.
COUNTRY!
ROCK & ROLL!
COUNTRY!
ROCK & ROLL!
COUNTRY!
ROCK & ROLL!
I might would agree with your statement if there were factionless runners and clans
Then how about instead of posting here you bump the thread I made about just such a topic.
;)
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:18
I've been anti PK since Beta 4, course fighting it instead of crying about it realy helps to keep me going. That noob enough for you? This weakening of resolve crap just gets sadder and sadder. Im truely sorry for your weakness of character.
Whineing about changeing game mechanics is truley annoying, I will not be a party to it. This is the game we were given, and I am doing just fine with it thankyou. I will make my changes in game, and in the forums as I am now. And if I push a few fence riders to the dark side, so be it, we will get them in the wash. Grief them from the game, or change their ways 1.
Originally posted by JackScratch
I've been anti PK since Beta 4, course fighting it instead of crying about it realy helps to keep me going. That noob enough for you? This weakening of resolve crap just gets sadder and sadder. Im truely sorry for your weakness of character.
I don't see how you can recognise any character change. You said what I did was wrong, you say what I plan to do is wrong. You didn't say one was worse than the other, so I might as well do both, shouldn't I? I'm truly sorry that there's all those PKers out there killing noobs right now, but you're too busy crying about it here to do anything about it.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:27
quote "I'm truly sorry that there's all those PKers out there killing noobs right now, but you're too busy crying about it here to do anything about it."
See, now where does this crap come from? When did I say this was my only theater of battle? Anyone care to guess what my home server is? Ive been fighting this battle in game and on the forums for a long time. My speaches on the forums are a damn good way to fight the battle as well. You see, there are a lot of people who don't understand that what they are doing is un acceptable, and who simply need to be shown that there is an alternative. That is why I post here in the forums. The pen truely is mightier than the sword, as the number of people who just dont want PKers around any more grow, then your fight will become more futile. While you have regaled all of your victims with tales of there deaths, I am telling there is an alternative. A way they can fight against that which they believed they could not.
Define unacceptable. Because I see more people accepting PKing than set as against it as you are. And I know that your clan is on Pluto, and I also know that I have stuck up for your clan, despite being a faction enemy of mine, because I felt sorry for you. I was told that there were members of eXo attacking your members in OZ, so I went there and killed the eXo members, and escorted your clanmates to Tech Haven. Apparently, this means shit to you, and no matter how many good deeds like this I perform, I'm still bad. So tell me, why should I even bother?
Psycho Killa
02-12-03, 01:33
Originally posted by Roc-a-fella
and you place copbots in ever little ass crack you can find even tho peper park was made out to be "where the thugs and killers hand out" i think you forgot to mention that the 50 copbots hung out there too.
They should be removing copbots from pp soon :)
According to the weekly neocronichle atleast.
TAKE THAT CAREBEARZ PP WILL PWNZOR U
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
They should be removing copbots from pp soon :)
According to the weekly neocronichle atleast.
TAKE THAT CAREBEARZ PP WILL PWNZOR U
maybe BD will be able to protect there own turf without some dumb copbot shooting me in the ass while im trying to clear the scum off the streets
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:38
EXO? now that's funny. Do you even know how EXO started? And before you ask, it's pertinant. real pertinant. You know, there is a difference. If what you do, falls within the standards I have set forward, then why are you even argueing with me. You know what. We are allied with FF. You know why? Because even though they are unable to completely stop random PKing within there own ranks, they at least have a rule about it and try to enforce it. And that is better than nothing, especialy in a megaclan. Im not attacking you, though it sounds like that may change, Im attacking a concept, and those who support it. If you support that concept then I am against you, period, but if you do not, then why are you playing the marter? Why not fight for something that is good, rather than something that makes no sense?
Again, you need to define these phrases. How do you define random PKing? If you mean killing random players simply because they are players, which is how I define it, then no, I don't do that. If you define it as killing someone without letting them know you intend to do so, either by KoS, OP war, or whatever, then yes, I'm guilty as sin. The problem you have is that you can only see in black and white. To you, people are either with you, or against you. Even when I first started playing this game I could recognise the difference between killing faction enemies on sight and killing every other player on sight. The latter I object to. The former I do not. But when I first started playing, I thought both were wrong. But I still recognised that one was more acceptable than the other, something you are either unable or unwilling to do.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 01:49
I'm truely sorry, to me attacking anyone, faction enemy or not, without true provication is unconcianable. There are plenty of good reasons to attack plenty of people. Why don't you follow those, why do you have to gank people with the red=dead mentality? Why don't you duel? why don't you OP? Why don't you hunt Random/faction PKers? Why don't you make this digital world a better place, instead of contributeing to it's problems. Im not saying there is no redemption, you just have to recognise the problem and seek to right it. There are plenty of people in hostile factions, who wish you no harm at all, and plenty in allied factions who are just no damn good.
I duel, I fight at OP wars, and I kill people who RPK. I don't kill people for killing enemy factions, because I don't have a problem with it. There was a time when I didn't think it was right, and I used to go to CRP and ask people to leave politely before other TGs came along and killed them. 99 times out of 100 all I got was a load of smack talk about how evil I was and how much I sucked because I'm a TG PKer, so I didn't want to disappoint them, and started killing them instead. Anything to shut them up.
In my first clan, of which I was a member for a very long time, we had a rule, whereby we were not permitted to fight someone unless in self defence or at an OP war. I found myself repeatedly shot in the back, and I was not allowed to take pre-emptive action. The only people I was allowed to kill were HATE members. But that got boring, because it wasn't very often that I encountered HATE, and we hardly got into any OP wars. Tell me, what am I supposed to do in between encounters with RPKers? God knows there are virtually none around these days with the belt rules, whereby SL actually hurts more people who are legitimately hunting and accidentally kill someone who isn't in their team, get red SL and drop a belt with their rares in, than it hurts RPKers.
Anyway, point is, if I stuck by your rules, I would find the game very dull, and I would probably quit. So instead of doing that, I make it more exciting, by going out and killing faction enemies. I target mainly clanned enemies who can put up a fight, as opposed to hunting down newbs specifically, but if the situation warrants it I have no qualms with killing a 0/2 if he's giving me smack talk or telling everyone in zone where I am. Killing like this gets my blood pumping and gives me an adrenaline rush like nothing else in the whole game, and it doesn't seriously affect any of my victims either. A whole 2 minutes of synap and poking? Big deal.
Maybe part of it stems from the fact that I even had fun being ganked by capped members of HATE when I was a low level rifle spy. I stood no chance, but I still got that adrenaline rush while running away, and though I was a little angry, I still enjoyed it, it was exciting, it was fun, it was a challenge to see if I could get away, and if I died so what? It's not like I couldn't respawn at a GR, get poked, shout my clan, and head out to help hunt them down. These days people are more inclined to whine than to do something about being killed.
why do you have to gank people with the red=dead mentality
Um... War?
You know... That thing where two sides have figure heads making mean faces at eachother while they send people out to fight and die and attempt to take over the other side...
why don't you OP
I do OP. However, I prefer fights where I can fight one on one - where the battle isn't won by the side with the ppu. There's a distinct difference between OP fights and the battles of a 'PKer'... Frankly, I find the latter more enjoyable - as does my computer.
Why don't you hunt Random/faction PKers
Because their issues are their own, unless they cross me or my people - I've no reason to do so. Do I frown on other people hunting people? No, it makes the atmosphere that much more entertaining.
hy don't you make this digital world a better place, instead of contributeing to it's problems
Because I prefer chaos in a virtual world since enjoying it in real life wouldn't be so enjoyable. I toss that question back at you - Why aren't you making the world a better place?
who wish you no harm at all
And if they let me know as such no harm will come to them. I heartily suggest setting up a sms message, I know I have them.
We are allied with ANONYMOUS CLAN You know why?
Because you're traitors to Neocron perhaps?
:D
And that is better than nothing
No, I say its worse. Because the fact that they're trying to enforce it shows that they might or might not have little to no control of those members who're pking. Frankly, I prefer the idea of clan based PK'er folks, because they're predictable and if you're cool with the clan, you're cool with all of them. However, thats not the same story with the small PK group within the big clan.
Anyway, enough with clan titles - I'd prefer not to have this turn into a HURRR CLAN Z GUD thread.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 08:27
Marx - Im pretty much done with you. I gave it a shot cause your post beged for it, but you are beyond hope. You are a died in the wool PKer and it seems that treating you like we treat all PKers is the only way.
Scikar - Reading your post makes me sad. You actualy care about the kind of person you are, but wont risk being bored to ensure your quality as a human being. If you can't find enjoyment in Neocron without Faction Killing then you realy aren't getting the game. The worst part is, there are a lot of people who do, or might would enjoy these aspects, were it not for the Random/Faction PKer. Once again, all I am demanding, is that each person be given the oportunity to not be involved in these encounters. If they are mouthy, that's their problem, they will either get big and get revenge, get un mouthy, or quit the damn game, but at least they have some options. But honestly, if the removal of Faction/Random PKing from your options is just too much, you realy have no business in the world of NC any way. There are lots of other games on the market that will suit you much better. With those you wont be bothering non combatants, because the entire game hinges on PvP combat, unlike NC where there are so many things to do besides kill other runners.
Psycho Killa
02-12-03, 08:30
Originally posted by JackScratch
unlike NC where there are so many things to do besides kill other runners.
Your right....
Theres always leveling up so you can kill other runners.
Farming parts to get rares so you can kill other runners
Make money so you can afford equipment to hunt or kill runners.
Get items constructed to better survive other runners.
And of course use the game as a big spammer chatroom looking for pokes so we can go pk people
Or thats the way i look at it :)
JackScratch
02-12-03, 08:38
Yeah, that's the way you look at it allright. You know that's the sad part, you talk like I have suggested that PvP be done away with, of course to the PKer what I have suggested must seem that way. You guys are so dead set on Ganking all other runners that you only care about proveing that Gankking ids the greatest thing since sex. Bad news, youre doing it wrong (both of them). You can't get past what I am saying because you refuse limitations on yourself. Once again it falls to the PKer mentality of "mememememememememe". How do you not understand concepts like selfish or inconciderate. And if you understand those concepts, then why is it that your parents never taught you they are wrong/bad?
This jack fellow reallt cracks me up :p
Originally posted by JackScratch
Marx - Im pretty much done with you. I gave it a shot cause your post beged for it, but you are beyond hope. You are a died in the wool PKer and it seems that treating you like we treat all PKers is the only way.
Scikar - Reading your post makes me sad. You actualy care about the kind of person you are, but wont risk being bored to ensure your quality as a human being. If you can't find enjoyment in Neocron without Faction Killing then you realy aren't getting the game. The worst part is, there are a lot of people who do, or might would enjoy these aspects, were it not for the Random/Faction PKer. Once again, all I am demanding, is that each person be given the oportunity to not be involved in these encounters. If they are mouthy, that's their problem, they will either get big and get revenge, get un mouthy, or quit the damn game, but at least they have some options. But honestly, if the removal of Faction/Random PKing from your options is just too much, you realy have no business in the world of NC any way. There are lots of other games on the market that will suit you much better. With those you wont be bothering non combatants, because the entire game hinges on PvP combat, unlike NC where there are so many things to do besides kill other runners.
People do have the oppurtinity, it's called the LE chip. I'ms orry, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you here. Besides PvP, there is PvM, RP, and hanging out with friends, that's pretty much it. PvM is done far better elsewhere. RP, PvP, and PKing are not mutually exclusive, I manage to put them together. RP and RPKing are however. But one thing I always have to ask, how can you RP that even your worst enemy should be allowed to wander around your faction HQ? Or say that, realistically, TGs would never attack MB?
You can deny it all you want, but PKing brings excitement to this game, even if you are the one being PKd. If you can't accept that then you need to start using the LE Chip, but otherwise stop complaining.
And PvP, as stated by MJS, is a base element of this game. It's what this game was created for. PvP is not done better in other places. Planetside doesn't combine PvP with RP, or true skill variations. Other MMORPGs have turn based PvP. I'm sorry for you but NC is the perfect match for what I want and how I want to play it.
All I'll add here is that Marx is not qualified to analyse the mentality of the 'whiny victim' as he puts it, because he can only see things from his perspective, by the same token the Whiny Victims take on the PKAR D00D would also be flawed
While RP, PVP, RPK may or may not be mutually exclusive/inclusive what is undeniable is that members of each of these extremes (and there is alot of grey area between them) do have mutually exclusive views on how NC should and shouldnt be
Suffice to say that there will always be people that will do anything that the game lets them do (because they can and theres no real comeback), trying to rationalise with them is futile (if only from the point of view that there will alway be 'one' you cant rationalise with) - hence a developer will eventually swing the nerf bat if something become too much of a problem (the game has to police the player because they players can not and will not police themselves)
That said it is obvious that NC is supposed to have a large PvP component (which I've never disputed) and that the developers have made as much a concession to the non-PvP crowd as they are likely to (in the form of the LE and its much limited penalties now) and as much of a concession to the RP crowd in the form of NeMa, Neocronical and live/Epic runs as they are likely to
Its unfortunate that the game does have such a large bias of PvP players _who have no interest in anything other than PvP_ because the games story and background have so much potential (but all that is just to facilitate PvP to most people) but the fact that this is (to my knowledge) the only MMORPG which combines levelling and an FPS interface (which provides the ultimate unbalanced PvP playing field) is something that those only interested in blowing other people away and being uber is too much to pass up
All I'll add here is that Marx is not qualified to analyse the mentality of the 'whiny victim' as he puts it, because he can only see things from his perspective, by the same token the Whiny Victims take on the PKAR D00D would also be flawed
Well, I'd say ths side of the whiny victim is obvious.
1.) They ignore all standard safety precautions.
2.) They waltz into a situation which might not be good for them
3.) Instead of running, relying on an SMS message, or stealthing away - they die without so much as a peep or movement.
4.) They complain about it here, on the in-game forums, or on a trade channel even though the PK was well within his/her rights to attack them as such.
While the side of the PK is also... Obvious.
1.) Enjoys fighting
2.) Enjoys winning.
3.) Enjoys the game as it's put forth.
The side of a greifer is also... Very obvious
1.) Enjoys winning.
2.) Doesn't care about who or what they kill; as long as it dies.
Its unfortunate that the game does have such a large bias of PvP players _who have no interest in anything other than PvP_ because the games story and background have so much potential (but all that is just to facilitate PvP to most people) but the fact that this is (to my knowledge) the only MMORPG which combines levelling and an FPS interface (which provides the ultimate unbalanced PvP playing field) is something that those only interested in blowing other people away and being uber is too much to pass up
I read this... And I can't help from laughing. I swear, you people make it sound like there's a bunch of crazy folk preventing people from playing the game constantly... There isn't.
This MMO revolves around PvP, all skills support it in one way or another... If you don't want to participate, there are means to make sure no one mistakes you for someone else. If you don't want to die purposely or accidently, there are means and methods... If you don't take advantage of those means and methods and still die - I'll shed no tear.
Marx - Im pretty much done with you. I gave it a shot cause your post beged for it, but you are beyond hope. You are a died in the wool PKer and it seems that treating you like we treat all PKers is the only way
I may be a dyed in the wool PKer, but the simple fact is... You're wrong.
*shrug*
I'm fine with it, you need to cope.
I think threads like this need a post to FULLY define how people use terms.
It seems JackScratch is using the term 'PKer' to mean or imply something more than what it really is.
PKer- anyone that kills another player for any reason at any time.
Random PKer- a PKer that kills another player for no reason.
Griefer- a PKer that repeatedly kills another player despite their wishes to be left alone.
PKer itself is NOT a bad thing. Most players likely ARE PKers. My pure PPU monk back on Pluto that had over 200 in construction even managed to kill another player every now and them. [:)]
Its also DAMN easy to avoid getting PK'd. The LE is the easiest- it USED to be REAL tough to get around with the LE in, but then they made it a lot easier. But if the LE isnt for you, its still easy to avoid it. My spy is now 40/45 or so, and he has been PK'd twice. Once in the Aggie Cellars, and the other runners all teamed up and killed the random PKer, and the other time was as I ran through Tech Haven tagging the genrep- a group of players had gathered, and as I ran by some monk jumped me. Both times no big deal. In fact, both times I levelled Con as I died. Wo0t.
Now, random killing is lame- killing is fine as long as there is SOME motivation.
And while I am against griefing and random PKing, I am having a hard time realizing how PKing in and of itself is evil.
EDIT: Let me add this. All too often the lines between griefer or random PKer and normal PKer get blurred. In this thread, Marx admits that he never just plain out randomly kills anyone, which is fine... but then he ends up siding with the less noble PKers out there. He says that he will only attack someone that wants to fight or that he has a reason to attack, but in the next breath he is explaining that if you get attacked, its your own fault. As such, it is easy to see how people simply lump all PKers together in the forums.
Originally posted by Marx
I read this... And I can't help from laughing. I swear, you people make it sound like there's a bunch of crazy folk preventing people from playing the game constantly... There isn't.
This MMO revolves around PvP, all skills support it in one way or another... If you don't want to participate, there are means to make sure no one mistakes you for someone else. If you don't want to die purposely or accidently, there are means and methods... If you don't take advantage of those means and methods and still die - I'll shed no tear.
Youre generalising, and that description doesnt fit me at all
I took my LE out to form a clan (for a shared apartment, no other reason). I started to get ganked while just getting on with my game (going to my PP apartments mainly)
I stopped having fun playing, doing anything was an excersize it fearing that some capped bored moron was going to take a dislike to me and give me a major setback, and subsequently I logged in less and less.
Pretty quickly I handed the clan leadership over to an alt who I dont really used and I put my LE back in - I didnt whine, bitch or complain about getting killed, I fixed the problem (except getting access to all my parts and junk is now a fucking hassle).
But the _moment_ that the LE becomes a problem for me experiencing non-PvP aspects of this game I suspect that will be the end of my subscription (I highly doubt the devs are going to do any major U-turns at this point, and I'm well past the point of thinking that the players opinion can and will make a developer change their game) as it is I spend more time playing SWG where I can choose if I want to involve myself in PvP at all and choosing not to PvP doesnt hamper my play in any way, shape or form
Having said that the reason I personally _debate_ the PvP/RP aspects of NC on the board (one mans debate is another mans whiny carebear post) is to try and illustrate that this _is_ more to NC than PvP (NeMa and Neocronical prove this) and to try and eductate some people in _why_ some players just arent interested in PvP (for me this is mainly the fact that I just dont have the time anymore to powerlevel and farm rares just to keep up with the joneses - if this was 10 years ago the answer may have been different)
Youre generalising, and that description doesnt fit me at all
I took my LE out to form a clan (for a shared apartment, no other reason). I started to get ganked while just getting on with my game (going to my PP apartments mainly)
Did you try talking to the people who were attacking you?
Did you try to form NAPs with other clans?
Did you try making it obvious that you and no one in your clan is able/willing to put up a fight?
Did you make sure your threat factor is 0?
Hell, I have a Crahn tradeskill clan for my skilling alts and I regularly go around to PP, MB, TH, TG, and the OZ with them to provide skilling for people. No one in that clan has been 'PK'd'. Why?
Because I a.) conferred with major clans. b.) Arranged protection when needed c.) pointed out I'm a skiller, and it would be to the detriment of the player killer if I would no longer serve him d.) used stealth when running into people who REALLY wanted to greif my dudes. e.) Provide services to all clans and factions no matter how hostile or not. f.) I won't run into PP or any zone in the middle of some big fight. Or if there's an overwhelming number of 'enemy' faction people (Unless I have a NAP with the group[s] in question).
No one will ever PK Leo Frankowski, Hiroshi Oshima, or Marx. Will they get greifed? Probably based on the sheer amount of HURRR PKAR BAD blokes who view this thread.
I stopped having fun playing, doing anything was an excersize it fearing that some capped bored moron was going to take a dislike to me and give me a major setback, and subsequently I logged in less and less.
Because you're a quitter and instead of thinking laterally to deal with your issue, you say "I can't get what I want the easiest way, Waaaa!"
as it is I spend more time playing SWG where I can choose if I want to involve myself in PvP at all and choosing not to PvP doesnt hamper my play in any way, shape or form
Choosing the way to play has hampered my ability to play - I still level, I still hunt, granted I have to be more cautious when doing so. I can't just run out to hit warbots, I have to hunt in more secluded areas. Do I mind? No. I have to adapt based on the actions of other players.
All you're saying is "I'm unwilling to adapt to other players, if their actions don't meet my standards - I give up and complain."
Come on! Dying in this game is the easiest thing to deal with, you don't lose XP, you drop your stuff in a backpack which no one can loot - you don't even need to go back to your backpack to get your stuff. You have a safeslot so you'll never drop your important stuff and the drop figure is TL based so hypothetically you can work around it by carrying a drone or two.
Remember when dying used to be a common occurence? My question to the public is this - what the hell changed?
Before people would die and say "Damn, that sucks - time to head back"
Now people die and bellyache about why they died, the SI, the belt drop, etc.
I just dont have the time anymore to powerlevel and farm rares just to keep up with the joneses
Neither do I. In fact I only play for 2-3 hours at a time every coupla' days... Yet I still get what I need through shrewd trading and attention to detail.
but in the next breath he is explaining that if you get attacked, its your own fault. As such, it is easy to see how people simply lump all PKers together in the forums
Do me a favor and look at where I explain why my Crahn clan has a little chance of dying at the hands of another.
Thanks.
If people aren't willing to work to ensure safety, that's their own damned fault.
Peeping Tom
02-12-03, 19:37
Originally posted by JackScratch
Gankking ids the greatest thing since sex. Bad news, youre doing it wrong (both of them). Once again it falls to the PKer mentality of "mememememememememe". How do you not understand concepts like selfish or inconciderate. And if you understand those concepts, then why is it that your parents never taught you they are wrong/bad?
i liek sex and im getting it every day multiplied times if i want.. (great being and old sob aint it :O )
i pk with ppl since im a nice guy and like to share with others
dunt bring my mom\dad.... its a fucking game.. its not like i run around beating up ppl inn rl,
some of the nicest ppl i met ingame are pkars :P (except for some )
arr arr
K4F
JackScratch
02-12-03, 19:45
Quote - Strych9
"It seems JackScratch is using the term 'PKer' to mean or imply something more than what it really is. "
Would you do me a favor and go back through this thread and count the number of times I specify "Random/Faction PKers"? That would make me believe you have read more than my last 2 posts, nothing in this post leads me to believe that is the case. If you are going to respond, please know what the topic is.
Marx - I love this crap, I am wrong am I. Why, because you have decided that what you have said is right? That's rich. Your flaw started when you posted this thread in the first place. Im a PKer and Im tired of the horrible people who get angry when I PK them. That's fucking beutiful, now the victim doesn't even get to have emotions about his victimisation.
So, it's OK to be a prick cause KK said it was? Oh I love this concept. You realy don't get it, nor will you. This isn't about the rules of the game. We are each dfined by our actions, ALL of our actions.
Tom, Go back and read my post in this thread about John Wayne Gasey
Peeping Tom
02-12-03, 19:47
Like Ostrich would said it, i love RPG (random player ganking)
arrr arrr
K4F
As far as I'm concerned this is the be-all end-all argument for the PK'er.
quote: '(Finally my dream has come true,) I am roleplaying a total dickhead.'
It's ok to be a prick not because KK say so, my friend, but because some of us really are and like to reflect it in our characters' actions.
Your flaw started when you posted this thread in the first place. Im a PKer and Im tired of the horrible people who get angry when I PK them. That's fucking beutiful, now the victim doesn't even get to have emotions about his victimisation
It's pretty funny, BECAUSE NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BITCHING IN THIS THREAD ARE PEOPLE I KILLED!
Fancy that!
Evidently the people I fought must be so mad they died that THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BITCH AT ME ABOUT MY PRACTICES ON A THREAD ABOUT THE SUBJECT THAT I STARTED
I'm sick and tired of people like you, who bitch and moan because you feel that people are at the mercy of big bad people who enjoy the idea of fighting. You want to be the hero, the figurehead of a cause. You will not waver because in your deluded imagination you're right and the people WHO MADE THE GAME are wrong.
The people who made the game? What I say?!
Yes, the people who made the game are well known to play the game. And a number of them do as I do. Who would've thought!?
I'm pointing out that there are MANY ways to AVOID THE SITUATIONS ALL TOGETHER.
And if all those red lights are going off and you STILL WALK INTO TROUBLE, who's the dumbass? The person who went against common sense and died or the person who killed them?
I am wrong am I. Why
Yes, because you have that veil of yours pulled so far down you couldn't see the forest for the trees.
So, it's OK to be a prick cause KK said it was? Oh I love this concept. You realy don't get it, nor will you. This isn't about the rules of the game. We are each dfined by our actions, ALL of our actions.
OK, So I have to succumb to the morality police. If you want to play a nice game where everyone's polite, nice, and all work together for a common goal - I suggest the Disney MMORPG. I'm not degrading it or you; hell, I'm playing it too. It's good fun.
Perhaps Neocron isn't the game for you... I mean, I grasp the idea that you need to push you're right... But it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
How's that feel? YOU'RE WRONG, YOUR WRONG, OH, GOOD POINT, BUT YOUR WRONG - Please not the sarcasm
JackScratch
02-12-03, 19:58
Nish, I just flat out, don't get you. Never have, probably never will.You PK me, then try to cosy up to me for trade services in plasa. Don't piss on me, and tell me it's raining. My clan has been victimised by you countless times, yet in safezones you act like we are old friends. What is wrong with you? You know my clan and I stand against Random/faction PKing. Why would you expect us to do anything nice for one who plays only to that end?
Marx - I was PKed a 100 times before I figured out the forums existed, sorry this arguement is bullshit. You are going to be right in your mind because you are selfish. An nothing anyone says or does will change your viewpoint.
BTW sarcasm noted, genius.
Peeping Tom
02-12-03, 20:02
Originally posted by JackScratch
Nish, I just flat out, don't get you. Never have, probably never will.You PK me, then try to cosy up to me for trade services in plasa. Don't piss on me, and tell me it's raining. My clan has been victimised by you countless times, yet in safezones you act like we are old friends. What is wrong with you? You know my clan and I stand against Random/faction PKing. Why would you expect us to do anything nice for one who plays only to that end?
Marx - I was PKed a 100 times before I figured out the forums existed, sorry this arguement is bullshit. You are going to be right in your mind because you are selfish. An nothing anyone says or does will change your viewpoint.
think this explains it ( btw this quote are classic )
quote: '(Finally my dream has come true,) I am roleplaying a total dickhead.'
btw Nish i wub you
arr arr
K4F
An nothing anyone says or does will change your viewpoint
Deja vu!
My viewpoint doesn't need to change, I play within the rules.
In this thread I'm just trying to point out if people play smarter, they might live longer - Is that wrong?
Oh wait, it's all huggly cuddle land in a city run by a dictator who's known to kill his own people for his benefit - In a land where even the air can kill you... In a land where there is no law; though there's a crappy imitation by the hands of MURDEROUS ROBOTS.
JackScratch
02-12-03, 20:04
OK, how does it explain anything. From what I have been told in this forum, being PKed is supposed to show me the joy of PKing and make me want to PK.
Marx - not waisting my time on you in this forum anymore. Rave on all you want, it only serves to widen and clear the rift between the 2 factions. Something that strategicly I want and you dont.
Peeping Tom
02-12-03, 20:06
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, how does it explain anything. From what I have been told in this forum, being PKed is supposed to show me the joy of PKing and make me want to PK.
it made you pissed, you shout for help at your friends\clan gather some ppl and gank em back
K4F
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, how does it explain anything. From what I have been told in this forum, being PKed is supposed to show me the joy of PKing and make me want to PK.
How old are you?
No, nevermind, I don't want to know.
When I was PK'd I wanted to get stronger so I could fight back if it happened again. I got stronger, I got bored - I need to keep my skills honed. So I fight people - I fight people that my faction, MY EMPLOYER, wants me to fight and inevitably kill.
Somehow that's wrong?
Please point out something obvious that I must be missing.
Marx - I was PKed a 100 times before I figured out the forums existed
No, I know alot of these people on the forums... Because we exchange PM's a bit - The point is... They don't exactly feel 'victimized'.
:rolleyes:
Marx - not waisting my time on you in this forum anymore. Rave on all you want, it only serves to widen and clear the rift between the 2 factions. Something that strategicly I want and you dont.
Thats your emotionally charged step down, which means in the war of idea's - I got you beat.
Thanks.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Would you do me a favor and go back through this thread and count the number of times I specify "Random/Faction PKers"? That would make me believe you have read more than my last 2 posts, nothing in this post leads me to believe that is the case. If you are going to respond, please know what the topic is.Here is the favor I will do for ya. You said this, and this is what I responded to:
You know that's the sad part, you talk like I have suggested that PvP be done away with, of course to the PKer what I have suggested must seem that way. You guys are so dead set on Ganking all other runners that you only care about proveing that Gankking ids the greatest thing since sex.Now in that quote, you say PKer, and then you say "you guys are dead set on ganking all other runners."
Now, that seems to indicate that you are associating the term PKer with anyone thank ganks all other runners- which actually is a specific type of PKer (random PKer, griefer).
So maybe next time you can do yourself a favor and watch how you use specific terms. I couldnt care less how many time you specified "Random/Faction PKers"... in fact BECAUSE you specify it so many other times, that seems to indicate that you meant all PKers this time since you didn't specify it.
--
Part of this problem is the issuing of blanket statements by both sides.
Originally posted by 5150
Youre generalising, and that description doesnt fit me at all
I took my LE out to form a clan (for a shared apartment, no other reason). I started to get ganked while just getting on with my game (going to my PP apartments mainly)
I stopped having fun playing, doing anything was an excersize it fearing that some capped bored moron was going to take a dislike to me and give me a major setback, and subsequently I logged in less and less.
I wouldn't expect anything less. My spy's first apartment in early retail was in Pepper. I was killed time and again by a BD hybrid. I got a bit pissed off, but I was just as mad at myself for going there in the first place. Pepper is a DANGEROUS place, it's run by criminals and gangsters, drug dealers and pimps. Do you honestly expect everyone to take their hat off and bow their head towards you? Of course not. But why do you expect them to leave you alone? If there was a way to just mug someone in the game, they would probably stick with that. But there isn't, and it's hardly going to work for them to run up and say gimme 100k and I'll let you past, because in the time it takes to type that you will have already run a mile.
In my case, I just became a little bit more cautious. I realised I didn't need to put my LE, I just needed to stop being fucking stupid. There's a subway which connects to two of the sectors, and the exits are guarded by CopBots. By using the subway, I had a right turn, quick dash to a grav lift, then run straight across past another CopBot to my app entrance. Once I started using the subway, I stopped getting killed.
Psycho Killa
02-12-03, 21:51
The city mercs just pked my 1 chev blackdragon like 30 times at mb :(. Now whos fault is it.... mine for trying to level at mb :D
Its ok paybacks a bitch. :)
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
The city mercs just pked my 1 chev blackdragon like 30 times at mb :(. Now whos fault is it.... mine for trying to level at mb :D
Its ok paybacks a bitch. :)
It's OK, it wasn't your fault. It's the damn PKers for not asking you to duel them before they fought you. The cheek of it, all you want to do is to level in your worst enemy's back garden, and they kill you ffs. They are bad people.
Originally posted by Scikar
It's OK, it wasn't your fault. It's the damn PKers for not asking you to duel them before they fought you. The cheek of it, all you want to do is to level in your worst enemy's back garden, and they kill you ffs. They are bad people. Yes! They should at least have given you a few hundred warnings, then offer money to make you go away, as well as offering an escort and help at another levelling spot outside of the MB! I mean, what jerks, attacking faction enemies, that's the lowest of low. ;p
Peeping Tom
02-12-03, 22:06
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
The city mercs just pked my 1 chev blackdragon like 30 times at mb :(. Now whos fault is it.... mine for trying to level at mb :D
Its ok paybacks a bitch. :)
you should have picked a female char
heard they go easier on the lil girls :P
K4F
I totaly agree with hating the idiots who feel tough when they kill me or drive me away with 5-1 odds. Its really pathetic.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I totaly agree with hating the idiots who feel tough when they kill me or drive me away with 5-1 odds. Its really pathetic.
Yep is about the same as a newbie getting attacked by a capped character. Although the odds are higher.
I totally agree with hating the idiots who feel tough when they kill noobs or drive tradeskillers away from the game with repeated ganking. It's really pathetic.
Psycho Killa
02-12-03, 22:53
Sucks being bd nowhere to level.
Its ok I still manage to level at mb 95% of the time without trouble... the sad thing is when a noob monk using pe level ppu spells can get away from fully capped chars :).
Vet empty out ur damn pm box.
Originally posted by Scikar
I wouldn't expect anything less. My spy's first apartment in early retail was in Pepper. I was killed time and again by a BD hybrid. I got a bit pissed off, but I was just as mad at myself for going there in the first place. Pepper is a DANGEROUS place, it's run by criminals and gangsters, drug dealers and pimps. Do you honestly expect everyone to take their hat off and bow their head towards you? Of course not. But why do you expect them to leave you alone? If there was a way to just mug someone in the game, they would probably stick with that. But there isn't, and it's hardly going to work for them to run up and say gimme 100k and I'll let you past, because in the time it takes to type that you will have already run a mile.
In my case, I just became a little bit more cautious. I realised I didn't need to put my LE, I just needed to stop being fucking stupid. There's a subway which connects to two of the sectors, and the exits are guarded by CopBots. By using the subway, I had a right turn, quick dash to a grav lift, then run straight across past another CopBot to my app entrance. Once I started using the subway, I stopped getting killed.
But youve missed something very important.....
I bought those apartments from BD, I'm one of their customers
This is a good example of where an RP consideration could have been made (and IMO _should_ have been made), instead the person just chose to pull the trigger because few people contemplate anything in this game that doesnt revolve around killing players
PP is to me very much like Bladerunner and the traditional CyberPunk RPG setting, sure its a dangerous place, but danger doesnt automatically mean combat will happen. In 'reality' (and I realise how rediculous that sounds in this context) most people in such an area is trying to avoid trouble (the stories in NeMa are a very good example of this), not necessarily looking for it, also bear in mind that BD and Tsunami actually need _customers_ yeah culture shock I know, but they provide a service and its not good for business to drive your potential customers away by having people continously attacked in your marketplace (yet another example of how few runners consider their factions goals and motivations while playing the game)
The most memorable example was a TG runner camping the zone between PP2 & 3, I zoned got attacked and ran (he was WAYYYYYY higher than me) I managed to get back to PP2 before he finished me off - no challenge for him, and no provocation from me either (I've given up trying to RP with TG runners, most of them just dont 'get it') - the guy was either bored or a jackass
I suppose my point is, with my LE out, I feel like I'm playing Planetside (except I'm always on the defensive), problem is though Planetside is fair and anyone I meet in Planetside is just as likely to die as I am, in NC anyone who has more time to level up (or choses to level up at the exclusion of everything else - unlike me) is guaranteed to defeat me, theres no skill here, its only a matter of time (unless I can make it to a copbot of safezone)
Theres no incentive/point for me to put myself in this position, and I'm not playing this game just to become a powergamer and try to keep up with the joneses, hence I am doomed to play this game with my LE in, personally if KK removed the clan restriction of the LE I'd be a happy runner, I very much doubt they will do this (and if they did there would be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth from the PvP community accusing KK of submitting to the carebears - even though I dont see how this change effects them one iota, its not like such a clan could hold an Outpost or anything)
At this point the only way I'm likely to PvP in NC is if PvP is restricted to runners of a similar level (this isnt a proposal or an idea, just my opinion) that way I know that anyone that can attack me, I have a resonably chance of defeating, that in itself would make people think twice before pulling the trigger and would add (to my mind) a much better level of tension in the game (and paves the way for higher/better risk vs reward as there would be hardly any ganking), people would only attack if they really had/wanted to and there would always be the chance they'd lose, or be driven off (if they realise theyve bitten off more than they can chew)
It's life, 5150. Life isn't fair. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's what PvP is all about. If you're attacked by someone who is much higher level, then yes, chances are you will lose. If later on, you are high level, and attacked by someone of a similar level but not very skilled, then chances are you will win. But if you want to have a chance at winning, you have to open yourself up to the risk of losing.
Also I would imagine that any TG on the streets of NC would be pretty damn edgy with all those CopBots around, and he would probably be sitting around with an itchy trigger finger rather than stopping for idle chit chat. Also, given that TG are almost always described as noob killing assholes, they're only living up to that, so you can't exactly claim to be surprised, can you?
JackScratch
03-12-03, 21:17
1 I have been assured, repeatedly, by you Scikar, and others, that this, is in fact, not life.
2 Copbots only fire on City allied runners in PP (baring attack of said copbot)
3 Logic has no place in the Random/Faction PKers mind, they have decided that they are going to do what they want, baring in game rules which they will whine to no end about if not beneficial to them, and rationalise their actions completely to
5150 - I am glad to see Im not alone in my fight, when these debates get underway it tends to get a bit lonely. I wouldn't mind hearing more, from other like minded individuals. Thoug, my resolve does not require it.
Psycho Killa
03-12-03, 21:49
Originally posted by JackScratch
2 Copbots only fire on City allied runners in PP (baring attack of said copbot)
My Black Dragon runner gets hit by copbots just as much as any of my other characters ever have.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
My Black Dragon runner gets hit by copbots just as much as any of my other characters ever have.
Yepp, they fire equally on all runners regardless of faction. They
can however act fishy sometimes but its not based on faction.
Originally posted by JackScratch
1 I have been assured, repeatedly, by you Scikar, and others, that this, is in fact, not life.
No, it is not real life. It is a simluation of life. Your characters are alive, thus when they die, they become dead. That's life.
2 Copbots only fire on City allied runners in PP (baring attack of said copbot)
Wrong.
3 Logic has no place in the Random/Faction PKers mind, they have decided that they are going to do what they want, baring in game rules which they will whine to no end about if not beneficial to them, and rationalise their actions completely to
Oh sorry, I forgot. Attacking my enemy is not a logical thing to do is it? The logical course of action is to invite him back to my apartment for tea, and then later we can go out hunting WBs together. Who needs PvP?
im a pker, and i can say that im random...
i always flip a coin before i kill!
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